tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post8180177217081338130..comments2024-03-29T00:04:32.434-05:00Comments on Althouse: "He out speechified her. He out-hustled her. He out-dressed her. He out-presidentialed her...."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3787738538048396902008-02-20T21:21:00.000-06:002008-02-20T21:21:00.000-06:00MadMan, I don't see what W did in the past eight...MadMan,<BR/><BR/> I don't see what W did in the past eight years to make him any less amenable to leading "the entire country". Maybe it was the 2000 close call. Maybe he's personally very grating.<BR/><BR/> But policy-wise, he's awfully leftish. NCLB, Part D, even the invasion of Iraq was more a liberal than conservative idea. Other things he's been trashed for (FISA, DADT) were passed without splashing any dirt on a Democrat Pres.<BR/><BR/> Other than tax cuts, I can't think of anything the guy's done that's truly conservative. And yet, liberals hate him. I haven't seen this much hate for a President since--well, since Clinton! And Clinton--strongarmed or no--had a lot of conservative reform passed under his watch, but it didn't save him from every nasty accusation--and an <I>impeachment</I> trial--under the sun.<BR/><BR/> Maybe once the memes got going there was no stopping them. But more likely it's just pure partisanship. <BR/><BR/> In which case, it seems unlikely that any Pres will ever lead the entire country again.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37105127353151798572008-02-20T16:59:00.001-06:002008-02-20T16:59:00.001-06:00As awful as [Kudlow's] show on CNBC is, reading hi...<I>As awful as [Kudlow's] show on CNBC is, reading his continued posts on the "Goldilocks economy" on The Corner are always insanely batty and worthy of a good laugh.</I><BR/><BR/>You know, I even agree that the economy is not doing as badly as everyone whines (or was not, 2002-mid-2007), but his "Goldilocks" phrasing is so <I>contrived</I> it's embarassing. No one is going to use a term like that.<BR/><BR/><I>""He out speechified her. He out-hustled her. He out-dressed her. He out-presidentialed her....""</I><BR/><BR/>No! Keep hope alive!<BR/><BR/><I>So your contention is Obama is only whipping her butt because Rove has mobilized the VRWC to funnel bazillions into Obama's coffers and are crossing over in open primaries to vote for the candidate that is on paper, more liberal than she is.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, on paper, they're about the same. It's just that we can trust the unprincipled avarice and power-lust of the Clintons to drive them towards sensible policies that voters will approve of, rather than trying to shape public opinion.<BR/><BR/>Obama is different. Some of Obama's followers venerate him like a <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arahitogami" REL="nofollow">god</A>, and his wife talks about how he's going to save our souls. Ideally, he would <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningen-sengen" REL="nofollow">repudiate</A> that in the strongest possible terms, but I kind of doubt he will, since that mysticism is a lot of the rationale for his candidacy. Vote for Obama => ??? => <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton" REL="nofollow">Immanentize the Eschaton!</A><BR/><BR/>Anti-Obama protesters, rather than waving banners and heckling and engaging in all the disgusting ruckus of modern protest culture, should line up peaceably and silently at his rallies, and <I>kowtow</I> to him. Foreheads to the floor. Large numbers -- 20 or more all in a group -- would be best for this. They can hail him with <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_thousand_years" REL="nofollow">万歳! 万歳! 万歳!</A><BR/><BR/>Actually, now that I think of that, I'd kind of get a kick of a President Obama if people did that.<BR/><BR/>But yes, returning to your point -- if Republicans are mobilising to vote for Obama, I think it's a colossal own-goal on their part. In more ways than one.Balfegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012196656096263507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71571586882441252672008-02-20T16:59:00.000-06:002008-02-20T16:59:00.000-06:00Aren't they like over 60 and refer to themselves a...Aren't they like over 60 and refer to themselves as "boys".<BR/>Fred Barnes graduated from my high school in 1960, so he's about 65. No idea about Mor TON. Their level of analysis is certainly boyish.<BR/>Chris Meloni of L&O SVU is our most famous graduate, but he's a little old for you. It's been fun to watch a fancy suburban prep school boy play a nasty con (Oz)and a blue collar cop.Ralph Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915708905660273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66973052785314189572008-02-20T16:54:00.000-06:002008-02-20T16:54:00.000-06:00Obama/McCain will be refreshing because they seem ...<I>Obama/McCain will be refreshing because they seem civil. (I hope I continue to think that)</I><BR/><BR/>Amen.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-165492600298762452008-02-20T15:52:00.000-06:002008-02-20T15:52:00.000-06:00Obama/McCain will be refreshing because they seem ...Obama/McCain will be refreshing because they seem civil. (I hope I continue to think that) Hearing <I>Hillary!</I> say that she would be ready from day 1 to fight <I>The Republicans</I> was a real turn-off for me. Maybe she meant to say fight for Democratic Party principles -- but that's not what came out of her mouth, and I thought such an attack on fellow citizens with whom she disagrees was very un-Presidential.<BR/><BR/>The next President will lead the entire country. I think either McCain or Obama will do just fine doing that.MadisonManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212179466758420208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85028287555579836682008-02-20T15:42:00.000-06:002008-02-20T15:42:00.000-06:00You're right, LoafingOaf. McCain will have to run...You're right, LoafingOaf. McCain will have to run a perfect campaign, and go to the right of Obama. He will have to go against the conventional wisdom that elections are won in the center. Obama shows that people want charisma and passion; I think centrists could be won by someone like McCain, if he would let loose his passion like he has only a few times in his campaign. If he tries to be Obama Light, he's toast.PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11813571591190037552008-02-20T15:24:00.000-06:002008-02-20T15:24:00.000-06:00Ann: Hey! Wait a minute! It's really not so abnorm...Ann: <I>Hey! Wait a minute! It's really not so abnormal here.</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps it doesn't seem that way to someone who splits their time between Madison, New York, Ithaca, and Austin.<BR/><BR/>The comrades of Berkeley are wondering why you don't bring them flowers anymore, btw.<BR/><BR/>To those of us who don't travel from one lefty enclave to the next, Madison really is 30 (or so) square miles surrounded by reality.Michael The Magnificenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820094319077676224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52745571856900411942008-02-20T15:19:00.000-06:002008-02-20T15:19:00.000-06:00Loafing Oaf:Good arguments you made and you may be...Loafing Oaf:<BR/><BR/>Good arguments you made and you may be right. Let's assume neither Obama or McCain has any big skeletons that have not yet been disclosed. <BR/><BR/>Then I suspect the experience issue is going to be a big issue for Obama to overcome. <BR/><BR/>Next would be fleshing out his platform into specifics.I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14629485886825307152008-02-20T15:15:00.000-06:002008-02-20T15:15:00.000-06:00Fourth, McCain is boring as a speaker, even when h...<I>Fourth, McCain is boring as a speaker, even when he's making good points (think: Bob Dole vs Bill Clinton).</I><BR/><BR/>No kidding. McCain makes Wilford Brimley sound dynamic. McCain's speech cadence reminds me of the guy who played the judge in Anatomy of a Murder.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44757338881806053732008-02-20T14:43:00.000-06:002008-02-20T14:43:00.000-06:00Loafing Oaf makes a good case for the general and ...Loafing Oaf makes a good case for the general and he may well be right. The one thing that gives me some pause with his/her analysis is that HRC has pretty much evenly split the popular vote when you deduct crossover of republicans from actualy registered democratic voters. Assuming HRC is not perceived as the change agent, that suggests to me that the change is the mantra among Obama supporters and there arent all that much more of them than HRC supporters. Will be an interesting time ahead.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-87378585005249953932008-02-20T14:39:00.000-06:002008-02-20T14:39:00.000-06:00Wisconsin is a lot like Ohio except for the wacko ...<I>Wisconsin is a lot like Ohio except for the wacko ultra-Left Madison college population, which is even worse that Columbus's Ohio State.</I><BR/><BR/>Kudlow is leaving me scratching my head. I live in Ohio but had no idea OSU is considered a "wacko ultra-Left" institution.LoafingOafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398399168775034527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52012968544934102222008-02-20T14:34:00.000-06:002008-02-20T14:34:00.000-06:00How about Oprah. It worked for Henry Clay.How about Oprah. It worked for Henry Clay.Trooper Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978703998566102194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73052724582270476042008-02-20T14:26:00.000-06:002008-02-20T14:26:00.000-06:00Kudlow is right that it inures to McCain's benefit...<I>Kudlow is right that it inures to McCain's benefit. His campaign will wait and then unload on Obama in the general election in a way that Hillary never could. America will have a clear choice for once, not between liberal and conservative, but between traditionalism and radical leftism</I><BR/><BR/>What would be good for McCain is if Hillary believes she still had a shot and decides to try drawing some blood on Obama in areas of attack that Republicans will wanna build on. For example, if Hillary intends to more vigorously attack Obama's qualifications to be Commander In Chief. If she ups the attacks in that area, it makes it easier for McCain to take those attacks to another level, because even the Clintonoids said so. <BR/><BR/>If Hillary has to gracefully exit right after March 4th, the Clintonoids will no longer pave the way on making it seem that even many Democrats think these areas are fair game to hit Obama on. <BR/><BR/>McCain is a good candidate but I don't think he'll be able to beat Obama. Obama is such a refreshing and talented young man that it's already feeling like it's his election to lose. Few people will believe he's a "radical leftist". If he's not coming off as a radical leftist right now, when he has to mobilize the party base by highlighting his "progressive" traits/views, why would he come off as one when he emphasizes his more centrist traits/views for the general election? <BR/><BR/>A lot of the Republicans in the Althouse community have long been out of touch with the pulse of the country, which is why they were declaring Obama "over" and "exposed as a lightweight" back in August of last year. There's nothing lightweight about him, and the American people are craving new blood in our highest offices. <BR/><BR/>McCain is the one with all kinds of problems. For one, half of his own party have been trashing and hating him for years, so how much heart and energy will they put behind him compared with the massive enthusiasm that's gonna keep Obama going? For two, McCain will be stuck defending Bush's foreign policies, which are widely considered (even by those who don't consider them a complete fiasco) to have been riddled with incompetence and imprudence. Thirdly, McCain seems like a nice guy, but if he becomes vicious in the campaign in order to knock Obama down a few pegs, he'll do as much or more damage to his own image. Fourth, McCain is boring as a speaker, even when he's making good points (think: Bob Dole vs Bill Clinton). Lastly, McCain has the feel of someone who is past his moment to be prez. Maybe he should've been prez in 2001, maybe he should've at least been the GOP nominee in 2000, but this is 8 years later and why doesn't the GOP have any new blood like the Democrats do at this moment when the people want...yes, CHANGE. <BR/><BR/>Obama can only defeat himself now. For example, if he makes a stupid choice for VP, that could blow up in his face pretty quick. Since I believe he's gonna try and underscore his change message by picking a surprising VP choice (my guess is he'll go with a woman, but one who is not yet on our radar screens). He just better make sure he vets the hell out of that choice, cuz the GOP will focus on ripping that person to shreds no matter who it is.LoafingOafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398399168775034527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5788443332160123002008-02-20T14:02:00.000-06:002008-02-20T14:02:00.000-06:00If Kudlow is a cocaine fiend what does that make O...If Kudlow is a cocaine fiend what does that make Obama? A crack whore? The Lefties that bag Rush, Bush, McCain's wife etc had better be ready to hear more of the same re their guy, acknowledged pipe sucker that he is.<BR/><BR/>Larry has an absurdly rosy view of the economy, but he is clean these days.# 56https://www.blogger.com/profile/09396614741493799267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71713686227133901782008-02-20T13:49:00.000-06:002008-02-20T13:49:00.000-06:00This dry CNN article offers some context to the ra...This <A HREF="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/09/100121742/index.htm" REL="nofollow">dry CNN article</A> offers some context to the ravings in that City Journal piece. (Is there a word that means paranoid, dishonest, and credulous at the same time?)<BR/><BR/>One of Hillary Clinton's big donors is Morgan Stanley CEO John Mack:<BR/><BR/><I>Mack was already active politically - but on behalf of Clinton's political opponents. A Bush "Ranger," he had raised at least $200,000 for the President's reelection bid and was one of the most prominent business names on GOP donor lists. At one time his name had circulated as a potential Bush Treasury Secretary.</I><BR/><BR/>Another "Republican" Clinton supporter: Jeffrey Volk, global head of Citigroup's agency and trust business.<BR/><BR/>Many big donors give to multiple candidates, often in both parties. Why? To be on the side of the winner:<BR/><BR/><I>This year's scramble for the business seal of approval can make it hard for candidates to pin down a loyal commitment. Blackstone Group CEO Stephen Schwarzman and Amgen CEO Kevin Sharer have written checks to McCain - and to Romney. Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg has donated to John McCain - but also to Clinton. Among Democrats, too, looks can be deceiving. Much attention was lavished on hedge funder Paul Tudor Jones's splashy May 19 fundraiser for Obama at his waterfront mansion in Greenwich, Conn. Less noticed was the $2,300 check he wrote to Giuliani just two months earlier.</I><BR/><BR/>Garage, I don't doubt that some Republicans are crossing over to vote for Obama. I happen to know some Democrats who are crossing over to vote for Huckabee.<BR/><BR/>But those votes are spit in the ocean.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61716284939011127952008-02-20T13:45:00.000-06:002008-02-20T13:45:00.000-06:00RogerYou're reading way too much on the Rove angle...<I>Roger<BR/>You're reading way too much on the Rove angle, </I><BR/><BR/>Garage, you linked an article which you stated was worth the read and specifically snipped an excerpt which pretty much indicts Rove and his 'agents in the shadows' as being the one responsible for Obama's rise and then tell Roger he's reading too much into it?Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58638936444953380522008-02-20T13:28:00.000-06:002008-02-20T13:28:00.000-06:00RogerYou're reading way too much on the Rove angle...Roger<BR/>You're reading way too much on the Rove angle, or even the cross-over votes. And I admit they may have bitten off more than can chew. But I'm convinced they'd much rather see Obama, as he could never take off the gloves against McCain like Hillary could. He will look like a young ungrateful punk getting dirty against war hero. And he already been bitch-slapped once by McCain in the Senate.garage mahalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485491995866513686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64489216897798462822008-02-20T13:27:00.000-06:002008-02-20T13:27:00.000-06:00We, of the VCBC (Vast Cheese and Beer Conspiracy) ...We, of the VCBC (Vast Cheese and Beer Conspiracy) have spoken!<BR/><BR/>We have dropped yet another house on Hillary. Die be-otch, die already! Go away and take your disgraced, disbarred, impeached unindicted co-conspirator with you.<BR/><BR/>But will she? No. Prepare for one part scorched earth and two parts subterfuge.Michael The Magnificenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820094319077676224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75922406153511983982008-02-20T13:18:00.000-06:002008-02-20T13:18:00.000-06:00OK so Wisconsin does something interesting in 1944...OK so Wisconsin does something interesting in 1944.<BR/><BR/>When the most of the country voted for the Democrat-Wisconsin voted for Dewey-the Republican.<BR/><BR/><I>But</I>- Dewey was an isolationist...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65523482945635684952008-02-20T13:16:00.000-06:002008-02-20T13:16:00.000-06:00Now, if some of these republican donors could be I...<I>Now, if some of these republican donors could be IDed from campaign donations, and their ties to the RNC established, I might be more inclined to buy the thesis. Until then..its nothing more than a ritual invocation of the devil incarnate: Rove</I><BR/><BR/>Actually Cheney is the Devil incarnate, Rove is merely one of the lesser demons. You should know that by now. If not, I will be happy to provide you with the official list of Republican Nazis, Fascists and other Minions of the Underworld (2nd Edition). It also includes flowcharts and bio information of each one. Email me within the next 10 minutes and I'll include the Imperator Reagan the Mass Murderer pop-up book for the kids. (We're still working on the rights to the video game)<BR/><BR/>Seriously though, Roger, you are spot on in terms of the GOP. Considering the disaary the party is in right now, it takes a cosmic leap of faith to think somehow the party faithful could organize an underground movement to sabotage Hillary's nomination by getting Obama to the head of the line.<BR/><BR/>Obama beatable? I don't know about that unless Garage is counting on the Bradley Effect. I'm a pretty staunch conservative and describing myself as ambivalent about McCain is being generous. Sure I think we could do worse but I don't see much of a groundswell of excitment for him within our own party.<BR/><BR/>Obama on the other hand has the ladies fainting as if George Clooney planted a wet one on them. He is definitely the Reagan of the Dems in terms of charisma and promising that shining castle on the hill and with the American mood where it is right now, he pretty much is the man of the times.Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16521423473494356472008-02-20T12:31:00.000-06:002008-02-20T12:31:00.000-06:00Garage: I have no doubt that Republicans arent pl...Garage: I have no doubt that Republicans arent planning to cede the fight to a liberal democrat--The republicans, however, have their own hands full consolidating their own party. Anyone suggesting republicans IDed Obama early and funded his run give the republicans far more credit for foresight than I think they deserve; Now, if some of these republican donors could be IDed from campaign donations, and their ties to the RNC established, I might be more inclined to buy the thesis. Until then..its nothing more than a ritual invocation of the devil incarnate: RoveRoger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73792143048911832112008-02-20T12:22:00.000-06:002008-02-20T12:22:00.000-06:00Historically is Wisconsin like Ohio?I've been told...Historically <I>is</I> Wisconsin <I>like</I> Ohio?<BR/><BR/>I've been told that it is extremely Union heavy. <BR/><BR/>Look at this Wisconsin historical site and you should see some of these posters-<BR/><BR/><I>Nothing</I> is ever new again...<BR/><BR/>Poster with motto-<BR/><BR/><I><B>Stop Next War Now </B> these men stood firm against militarism and war vote for them...</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=23612" REL="nofollow">link</A><BR/><BR/>Or how about this poster for Victor L. Berger-for U.S.Senator( from Wisconsin)-with this slogan-<BR/><BR/><I><B>for a Speedy, General and Lasting Peace-Tax the Profiteers</I></B><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=1901" REL="nofollow">Link to Berger Poster</A><BR/><BR/>What if these candidates had WON?<BR/><BR/>{They were running before WW II}<BR/><BR/>and the old Milwaukee mayor Emil Seidel with the caption-<I>War Destroys Life-Socialism Preserves Life</I>-<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/whi/fullimage.asp?id=26096" REL="nofollow">Former Mayor of Milwaukee Poster</A><BR/><BR/>Now I have been told by labor lawyers that Wisconsin has always been more Liberal. Looking at the Wisconsin historical site there might be reasons for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89644409967569978422008-02-20T11:39:00.000-06:002008-02-20T11:39:00.000-06:00That poster bothers the hell outta me.I dare ONE o...That poster bothers the <I>hell</I> outta me.<BR/><BR/>I dare ONE of Barack's supporters to find an <B>American</B> campaign poster that floats a bust of the "figurehead" like that above a <I>faceless</I> crowd.<BR/><BR/><B>I have seen it done before</B>.<BR/><BR/>But if I told you <I>where</I> and by <I>who</I> you would commence with accusations....<BR/><BR/>Hell at least the Obama campaign did <I>not</I> do the round halo-they went for the square shape.<BR/><BR/>But-that's been done before too.<BR/><BR/>In California there is a demographic racial group that is <I>not</I> voting for him by huge percentages-<BR/><BR/>Are they picking up the subliminial messages of-<BR/><BR/><I>The Cult of Personality</I>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-224107473610571742008-02-20T11:18:00.000-06:002008-02-20T11:18:00.000-06:00Don't call me a fool, garage. I voted for Hillary...Don't call me a fool, garage. I voted for Hillary for exactly that reason. But let me tell you, it was not an easy thing to do. And in any case, elections are so unpredictable it's hubris to think you know 9 months out how things are going to play out.Original Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01714345479248980398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1660851945325439722008-02-20T11:14:00.000-06:002008-02-20T11:14:00.000-06:00Be sure to stick around for the Cancelled Election...<I>Be sure to stick around for the Cancelled Election conspiracy theory, complete with yet another non-supporting link.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually I am waiting for some last minute sleight of hand move by Hillary to somehow wrangle MI and FL delegates to her side.<BR/><BR/>Then the real bloodshed will begin.Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.com