tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post7921755788114684113..comments2024-03-28T15:17:40.434-05:00Comments on Althouse: JFK's "application to Harvard, including mediocre test scores and a refreshingly banal personal essay."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger100125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76319669341588181182011-01-18T11:13:10.783-06:002011-01-18T11:13:10.783-06:00somefeller said: "That's okay, most Ivy ...somefeller said: "That's okay, most Ivy League graduates have decent enough job prospects without needing to ask you for a job."<br /><br />And yet I've interviewed a few. I guess they were just killing time, or practicing, or something.<br /><br />"But maybe one of them could teach you to stop pissing on your shoes."<br /><br />Now, that's what I THOUGHT they'd be good at: Showing someone how to pee. Not engineering, but piss instruction. I take it back, somefeller: There is value to an Ivy League education. You Yale and Cornell gadgitates can probably piss rings around the people from Michigan and Stanford and Purdue that I hired.Pastafarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008215139954260401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15002839587551184482011-01-18T08:59:16.933-06:002011-01-18T08:59:16.933-06:00I joined the Army on 20 Jan 1961. Los Angeles indu...I joined the Army on 20 Jan 1961. Los Angeles induction center. There was a TV in the room and we took our oath as Kennedy took his.<br /><br />I was in Peshawar, Pakistan during the Cuban missile crisis and Adana, Turkey when he was assassinated. We had a memorial formation and watched a couple of those ugly yellow insect-like nuclear weapon transporters headed for the hot pad.<br /><br />There were still a lot of WWII and Korean combat vets around. They didn't like to talk about combat. War stories are for REMFs (Rear Echelon Mother Fs). The "heroes" wore their decorations only when required to do so.<br /><br />The scuttlebutt about Kennedy was that maybe they were asleep. Happens. This from guys who had nodded off in a water filled foxhole during artillery barrages. Consensus? They came home from Hell and got some fruit salad (decorations). Bless them.<br /><br />Kennedy was not particularly popular with the soldiers I knew but it had nothing to do with his war record. Even assholes are loved when the bullets fly. As long as they're shooting the same direction you are.Roy Lofquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16536815900678298041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8338769840616099052011-01-18T03:34:29.657-06:002011-01-18T03:34:29.657-06:00"Also refreshing is the letter from JFK's..."<i>Also refreshing is the letter from JFK's father</i>"<br /><br />That's not refreshing, it's <i>disturbing</i>! I had no idea old Joe Kennedy was going around peering into my soul...Kirk Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05921711310191924997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37910449210958026402011-01-17T22:15:40.119-06:002011-01-17T22:15:40.119-06:00"Several points. One, JFK's PT boat was t..."Several points. One, JFK's PT boat was the only one run down by a Japanese Destroyer in WW II. In fact, I don't think any German E-boats or British MTB boats were ever run down either."<br /><br />Huh? If true (sounds doubtful) what the hell difference does it make? There were lots of ways to die in that war, and some of them were unique. <br /><br />If Kennedy made a mistake, it was in getting separated from the rest of his squadron, some of which had radar on board. (Kennedy did not.) But the separation was part of the confusion of the operation.<br /><br />Kennedy's heroism came after the boat sank, and he knew that as commander he bore the responsibility of losing the ship. All commanders do. When asked how he became a "war hero," he replied "They sank my boat."<br /><br />Kennedy could have had a cushy job (like, say, Nixon, LBJ or Reagan) in WW II. Instead, like George H.W. Bush, he took a dangerous one. That tells me most of what I need to know about his war service.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424384180201600935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-45151540729824348762011-01-17T21:16:25.351-06:002011-01-17T21:16:25.351-06:00And let me say, I like JFK. The only problem with ...And let me say, I like JFK. The only problem with Jack was his judgment and friends. I wish Nixon had been elected in 1960, he was better prepared for the POTUS and had better judgment. <br /><br />And he didn't have LBJ as a VP.rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5807915469632045892011-01-17T20:53:58.726-06:002011-01-17T20:53:58.726-06:00'He as 19 when the war ended.'
I've m...'He as 19 when the war ended.'<br /><br />I've met a few old boys who managed to get in right before the end, at 17 or younger if they were lucky (or unlucky). Amazing what some kids would do to get out of podunkville.Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09055468613470143350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66609583273764739122011-01-17T20:49:39.883-06:002011-01-17T20:49:39.883-06:00Several points. One, JFK's PT boat was the onl...Several points. One, JFK's PT boat was the only one run down by a Japanese Destroyer in WW II. In fact, I don't think any German E-boats or British MTB boats were ever run down either.<br /><br />2) JFK knew the Destroyers were coming down the slot and knew which direction and the approximate time. That's why he was there, to ambush them.<br /><br />3) A destroyer cruising at 30 Kts, (an incredibly high speed given the high fuel consumption) covers a 1,000 yards a minute. It throws up a big wake, easily visible at 1,000 yards. Which means JFK had 1 minute to get out of the way of a Destroyer he knew was coming.<br /><br />4) It should be noted that US submarines - on dark nights - picked up enemy ships at 3,000-4000 yards, and sank them at 1,000-1,500 yards. <br /><br />Nope JFK or someone was asleep. And the US Navy has never accepted the excuse that "Shit Happens" when a ship/boat goes down in wartime. The Captain needs a better excuse, unless he's the son of a politically connected millionaire.rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11229921788086956172011-01-17T20:40:37.774-06:002011-01-17T20:40:37.774-06:00During the 1980 campaign Ronald Reagan shard harro...<i> During the 1980 campaign Ronald Reagan shard harrowing memories...</i><br /><br />I think you're getting Reagan mixed up with Jimmy Carter. And I think the word is "Shared" not "Shard".<br /><br />But maybe English is your 2nd Language and you read this anecdote in Paraguay.<br /><br />Of course, you could be Southern Democrat.rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58174420748731871112011-01-17T20:37:31.559-06:002011-01-17T20:37:31.559-06:00OTOH, PT Boats don't get run down by Destroyer...<i> OTOH, PT Boats don't get run down by Destroyers unless some one was asleep.</i><br /><br />No. The PT Boats were were potentially fast (when the trouble-prone engines were all working properly), but if they ran fast at night, they created a phosphorescent wake that make them an easy target for Japanese planes (just attack at the point of the glowing V). So Kennedy's PT boat was moving slowly when it was hit by the destroyer.MarkWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05196457197737335405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81515196744941298422011-01-17T19:37:20.042-06:002011-01-17T19:37:20.042-06:00Chad said...
Talking about another Big Fake, why ...<i>Chad said... <br />Talking about another Big Fake, why are we forced to honor that other liberal lowlife (and a communist to boot) Martin Luther King? One of our best state senators wants to get rid of this ridiculus holiday. I hope Repubicans can follow through.</i><br /><br /><br />Nice try Chad-Moby. Now back to the Daily Kos with you. <br /><br />I do not care for all of Dr. King's economic policy, but he was a great man and was absolutely right about civil rights giving everyone equal opportunity. But hey, you are just doing what you are doing to stir things up.Fred4Preshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574159710712259945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84672741775827702872011-01-17T19:31:04.344-06:002011-01-17T19:31:04.344-06:00During the 1980 campaign Ronald Reagan shard harro...During the 1980 campaign Ronald Reagan shard harrowing memories he had of going on bomber runs during WWII. The only problem was is that he had forgotten to remember that these "bomber runs" never left the Hollywood studio lot where they were being filmed.<br /><br />What a knob.Once written, twice...https://www.blogger.com/profile/10551607322231833310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80945492219374931442011-01-17T19:30:06.518-06:002011-01-17T19:30:06.518-06:00rcocean, I would give JFK a break on getting run d...rcocean, I would give JFK a break on getting run down by a Jap destroyer. <br /><br /><i>und 2am, on a moonless night, Kennedy's boat was idling on one engine to avoid detection of her wake by Japanese aircraft when [10] the crew realized they were in the path of the Japanese destroyer Amagiri, which was returning to Rabaul from Vila, Kolombangara after offloading supplies and 900 soldiers. Amagiri was traveling at a relatively high speed of between 23 knots (43 km/h) and 40 kt (75 km/h)in order to reach harbor by dawn, when Allied air patrols were likely to appear.<br /><br />The crew had less than 10 seconds to get the engines up to speed, and were run down by the destroyer on 2 August 1943 in the Blackett Strait between Kolombangara and Arundel in the Solomon Islands near 8°06′44″S 156°54′20″E / 8.112140°S 156.905488°E / -8.112140; 156.905488.</i><br /><br />In short, shit happens. <br /><br />When it did, Jack acted like a leader, saved his men, and managed not to get captured. I would not second guess this event that much.Fred4Preshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574159710712259945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17112455487942673712011-01-17T19:15:29.194-06:002011-01-17T19:15:29.194-06:00You can afford to be flippant when you know your a...You can afford to be flippant when you know your application to Harvard is in the bag, but the honesty from Jack and Joe Sr. is refreshing. But Joe Sr. thought Joe Jr. was going to be president in 35. Jack was just a back up son. <br /><br />Then again Teddy was the Fredo of the family.Fred4Preshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574159710712259945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49645134291204477362011-01-17T19:03:32.791-06:002011-01-17T19:03:32.791-06:00You can sum up JFK by looking at his war service -...You can sum up JFK by looking at his war service - patriot, brave, likable, and incompetent. <br /><br />On one hand, the guy was beloved by his crew, tried hard, and was a 4-F millionaire who pulled strings and lied to get INTO Combat. OTOH, PT Boats don't get run down by Destroyers unless some one was asleep.<br /><br />Imagine you're out in the Mojave desert - no traffic, its 3 AM and you're in a sports Car and you get run over by an 18 wheeler - that someone told you was coming. How could that have happened without pilot error?<br /><br />Yeah, he wasn't a scholar but how many you nerds banged Marilyn Monroe and had a chick a day and Jackie on the side?rcoceanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102201338319611538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27615297779609832392011-01-17T18:56:03.063-06:002011-01-17T18:56:03.063-06:00Many commenters are flunking reading comprehension...Many commenters are flunking reading comprehension.<br /><br />JFK's low score in physics was not his grade at Choate. It was a score on the CEEB (College Entrance Examination Board) test, which Harvard apparently required. In fact Kennedy scored very well on the CEEB in history and english, which were his main interests. This was more than adequate academically for Harvard in those days, and would have made Kennedy quite competitive with other applicants.<br /><br />Kennedy had some low grades at Choate, especially in his earlier years, but schools like Choate had a very rigorous grading system in that era. Grades of over 80 on a scale of 100 were near the top of the class, and the school delighted in giving low grades to its students. They felt that only top effort deserved top grades, which was a good lesson to send.<br /><br />JFK was of course a shoo in for Harvard, based on family position and wealth, Choate and legacy status. His banal application essay reflects his knowledge that he was going to get in, and blessedly is completely devoid of the bullshit that is slung in present day applications. Refreshing in its honesty, one might say.<br /><br />Joe's letter was written after JFK was admitted. Again, it is a very honest letter written by a father that knew his son well.<br /><br />It's interesting that no one has pointed out yet that Kennedy's top reference was Harry Hopkins, who was President Roosevelt's top aid and closest political confidant. Well connected, indeed.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17424384180201600935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61105154132380262272011-01-17T18:48:59.896-06:002011-01-17T18:48:59.896-06:00Natalie Portman went to Harvard. Would you rather...Natalie Portman went to Harvard. Would you rather have Natalie as a classmate or some other student who scored 50 points higher on their SAT. Likewise with Kennedy. When asked his father's occupation, young John had the wit to reply "Chairman of the SEC". Would you like your bright, ambitious kid to be going to school with the son of the SEC chairman or someone who got an A in Latin.......JFK was quick witted and self confident. I suppose the self confidence came more from having good looks and a wealthy father than from academic prowess. But that's the way of the world, and no demerit to him because of it....You can fairly argue about his judgement, but he was certainly brave. And he showed as much decency as courage in the way he rescued his men......Some of the criticism of him is very like the liberal critique of Palin. The bias is more in evidence than the factz.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07837540030934495651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69719889914775151372011-01-17T18:41:07.131-06:002011-01-17T18:41:07.131-06:00I don't think Bobby even left the US.
He as 1...<i>I don't think Bobby even left the US.<br /><br /></i>He as 19 when the war ended.MadisonManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01212179466758420208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86907351327168758212011-01-17T18:12:08.868-06:002011-01-17T18:12:08.868-06:00tg, nobody is telling you to forsake your respect ...tg, nobody is telling you to forsake your respect of the man, if that's the way you feel. Some of us put it in a bit more context.<br /><br />That he was brave after the boat was hit wasn't in question. The issue is, did it have to happen in the first place?<br /><br />Revenant said...<br /><br /><i>Those of you ridiculing Kennedy's grades should bear in mind that these were grades from an elite prep school. It is common, to the point of being a cliche, for kids who barely passed at a private school to transfer to a public school and miraculously transform into straight-A students</i><br /><br />I went to a similar institution K-12. Flunking physics and barely scraping through French would not have gotten me cut much slack, I don't think.edutcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15589958656028023357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63960231242497524292011-01-17T17:52:10.158-06:002011-01-17T17:52:10.158-06:00The mission of PT 109, along with 14 other PTs sen...The mission of PT 109, along with 14 other PTs sent on patrol that night was to engage the Tokyo Express re-supply forces. It had been a 10 months since the 1ST Marines had been written off at Guadalcanal. but 8 months since Halsey took command from Admirals who had been hiding their ships. Halsey had a one brief order, "Attack, repeat, attack" and the Navy started throwing all of its ships into the battle after battle. The U S Navy lost more of those battles than they won. But the Japs lost their balance of forces from substantial losses in battles they won, but not overwhelmingly. The Japs were then on the defense after January, 1943. The PTs were an insignificant sacrificial group that had little or no chance in a fight, almost Kamikase boats if they did it right. But they added a small element to the new Attack with everything posture that was starting to work. JFK certainly did that job well. He closed with the Japanese Navy forces as close as you can get. Yes, that was an heroic role and JFK jumped into it and risked a horrible death to do his part. That makes him a hero in my book.traditionalguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05706120413005530014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19155587655732047342011-01-17T17:48:50.749-06:002011-01-17T17:48:50.749-06:00"It ain't exactly a jet ski."
Or an...<i>"It ain't exactly a jet ski.</i>"<br /><br />Or an Oldsmobile Delmont 88.KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24019123706401152442011-01-17T17:29:47.235-06:002011-01-17T17:29:47.235-06:00PT boats were more manuerable than destroyers. Onl...<i>PT boats were more manuerable than destroyers. Only an error would let one be cut in two.</i><br /><br />Sports cars are more maneuverable than SUVs. Therefore, any car accident between an SUV and a sports car must be due to error on the part of the sports car's driver.<br /><br />The real world's a little more complicated than that. Both the PT boat and the destroyer were running dark, and the PT boat had was idling to avoid detection. The crew had only a few seconds to react, and while PT boats are *relatively* maneuverable they're still triple the size and weight of a fully loaded tractor-trailer rig. It ain't exactly a jet ski.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44517841528364522822011-01-17T17:16:59.907-06:002011-01-17T17:16:59.907-06:00Contrast and compare:
“I think Barack knew that h...Contrast and compare:<br /><br />“I think Barack knew that he had God-given talents that were extraordinary. He knows exactly how smart he is. … He knows how perceptive he is. He knows what a good reader of people he is. And he knows that he has the ability — the extraordinary, uncanny ability — to take a thousand different perspectives, digest them and make sense out of them, and I think that he has never really been challenged intellectually. … So what I sensed in him was not just a restless spirit but somebody with such extraordinary talents that had to be really taxed in order for him to be happy. … He’s been bored to death his whole life. He’s just too talented to do what ordinary people do.”<br /><br />Valerie Jarrett, speaking of Obama<br /><br />"Jack has a very brilliant mind for the things in which he is interested, but is careless and lacks application in those in which he is not interested. This is, of course, a bad fault."<br /><br />At least Papa Joe had the good grace to recognize that it was a fault. Jarrett seems to think it is a good thing. <br /><br />John HenryJohn henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529920006532904660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77396279377507763752011-01-17T17:12:26.217-06:002011-01-17T17:12:26.217-06:00Re JFK the War Hero:
JKF was rejected multiple ti...Re JFK the War Hero:<br /><br />JKF was rejected multiple times by all the services on medical grounds. Most people don't realize just how sickly he was. <br /><br />Joe Sr pestered FDR until FDR ordered the Navy to let him in but to keep him at a desk job in DC. <br /><br />While there, Kennedy started an affair with Inga Arvad, a married Swedish(?) woman suspected of being a German agent. <br /><br />He was told to stop seeing her and would not. He was sent to Florida to get some distance between them. He came to DC on weekends to see her. <br /><br />So he wound up in the Pacific. <br /><br />He was apparently a mediocre PT boat skipper. He was probably incompetent for letting his boat get T-Boned by a Jap destroyer. He was given a medal because the alternative would have been a court martial. <br /><br />He did behave heroically after losing his boat. <br /><br />Joe Jr, in popular perception was shot down while on a bombing run over Germany. In reality, he never saw a German, never heard a shot fired in anger. He flew anti-sub patrols out of England. Nice and safe, just what Papa Joe ordered. <br /><br />He got killed when his plane blew up. Much more to it than that of course but that is the short answer. It blew up over England. <br /><br />I don't question his bravery nor do I dishonor his service. I merely point out that it is not quite what the Kennedy fog machine would have us believe. <br /><br />I don't think Bobby even left the US. <br /><br />John HenryJohn henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13529920006532904660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24893881703955238822011-01-17T17:09:46.958-06:002011-01-17T17:09:46.958-06:00As mentioned above, back in those days the most im...As mentioned above, back in those days the most important qualification for getting into Harvard was the right Eastern prep school pedigree and the ability for your father to pay the bills. The switch to some semblance of academic meritocracy didn't occur until after World War II, and in many ways didn't really sink in until the early-to-mid 1960s.<br /><br />Pastafarian says:<i>This just further enforces my already deeply-held opinion about the Ivy League: I wouldn't hire an Ivy League graduate to shine my shoes.</i><br /><br />That's okay, most Ivy League graduates have decent enough job prospects without needing to ask you for a job. But maybe one of them could teach you to stop pissing on your shoes.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63065831803804399742011-01-17T17:07:47.201-06:002011-01-17T17:07:47.201-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.somefellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15013403004665789644noreply@blogger.com