tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post7536763617505254329..comments2024-03-28T18:26:13.768-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Schools provide food, medical care, counseling and taxi service if needed. Student health care is free..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11058754450669653442011-08-24T07:16:21.434-05:002011-08-24T07:16:21.434-05:00Religion?!
And as noted earlier, there's no s...Religion?!<br /><br />And as noted earlier, there's no such thing as a free lunch. THEY may not be paying for it, but SOMEBODY is!Clydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16736461252925227611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26900504285922276762011-08-23T22:55:27.555-05:002011-08-23T22:55:27.555-05:00One of the (few) interesting comments at metafilte...One of the (few) interesting comments at metafilter pointed to the existence of the "Jante" culture in Finland, which seems to be summed up as "nobody is better than anyone else, so do you go thinking so". If this is truly the prevalent attitude in Finland - that exceptional performance and achievement are frowned on as disruptive to society - much of what the Finnish education system is doing isn't going to work very well here. One thing that does work in the US - in my opinion, anyway - is that kids can get ahead because frequently, when their parents or "the system" finds them to be bright, they are pushed along with a lot of "you're smart, you can do better, keep working, etc". And so a child of a prison guard goes to a top 15 law school (pause to pat self on back). We need more of that, not less. And no, not meaningless "self-esteem" nonsense, but real encouragement for kids who can do well to actually succeed.<br /><br />Finally, as a parent, the idea that being in a system with the smallest difference between the highest performers and the lowest is a good thing freaks me out. Because my kid? Spectacular! Much smarter than average! He's going places - get out of his way! Wait 'til you see what he does when he grows up! Can you tell I'm an American yet? ;)Tarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06472104751888958606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10434282887334305292011-08-23T22:54:22.414-05:002011-08-23T22:54:22.414-05:00Liberals define commitment to education as MOAR MO...Liberals define commitment to education as MOAR MOAR MOAR dollars. Conservatives define commitment as disciplined students who study the material and don't give excuses. 2 different worlds, and never the twain shall meet.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11205752419540502278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84312969362021291562011-08-23T22:14:45.234-05:002011-08-23T22:14:45.234-05:00Scott M had an excellent question no one seemed to...Scott M had an excellent question no one seemed to be able to answer: we were world class in education once. What happened?Hoosier Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872965118921894534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32253159894652378892011-08-23T20:36:10.301-05:002011-08-23T20:36:10.301-05:00Michael said...
CubanBob. I just read that Finland...Michael said...<br />CubanBob. I just read that Finland spends less per pupil than does Utah which spends at the bottom for US states. So i am not sure you can correlate their high taxes with their educational success. They are spending their tax revenues elsewhere.<br /><br />8/23/11 6:48 PM<br /><br />Apples and oranges. The high taxes are for the entire socialist superstructure not just education. Also a lot of our education dollars are spent are spent on things that are not entirely directed on education. The excessive amount of administrators, union work rules, special needs and other regulatory demands drives up per capita costs without any compensating offsets skew our spending with no measurable benefit. The Finns apparently in these areas don't shoot themselves in the foot.cubanbobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746305669005611456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23491160357327880272011-08-23T19:37:02.478-05:002011-08-23T19:37:02.478-05:00A couple things in the Smithsonian remind me of th...A couple things in the Smithsonian remind me of the best of our private schools. Small overall size is part of it. Teachers having a sense of autonomy and the trust of administrators and parents is another. <br /><br />I don't know that there are many private schools in the U.S. that eschew homework, however. My guess is that most of them could drop homework without seeing student achievement suffer -- especially at the primary level.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72790328508717934452011-08-23T19:28:40.803-05:002011-08-23T19:28:40.803-05:00The other Peter got there first. Yep, that Simo wa...The other Peter got there first. Yep, that Simo was one bad-ass soldier.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-88440604958104916282011-08-23T19:06:32.642-05:002011-08-23T19:06:32.642-05:00Finland also produced the greatest soldier of all ...Finland also produced <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4" rel="nofollow">the greatest soldier of all time</a>.<br /><br />PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-78912833151364460412011-08-23T18:55:51.854-05:002011-08-23T18:55:51.854-05:00To expand a bit on cubanbob's comment, some no...To expand a bit on cubanbob's comment, some notes on the Nordic economies and the uses of taxes therein.<br /><br />http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtmlUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111951437723819152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67959767778932773692011-08-23T18:53:44.829-05:002011-08-23T18:53:44.829-05:00Finland's education amounts to local control d...Finland's education amounts to local control due to the countries entire size. <br /><br />Get rid of Fed control of education and return it to local control, and stop punishing those that excel by reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator in then name of "equality".SunnyJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13738205079155502744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7630709443546474202011-08-23T18:48:07.689-05:002011-08-23T18:48:07.689-05:00CubanBob. I just read that Finland spends less per...CubanBob. I just read that Finland spends less per pupil than does Utah which spends at the bottom for US states. So i am not sure you can correlate their high taxes with their educational success. They are spending their tax revenues elsewhere.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08258681007386089907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52826531091672611262011-08-23T18:41:45.577-05:002011-08-23T18:41:45.577-05:00No doubt the Finns have an excellent educational s...No doubt the Finns have an excellent educational system. But 'free' it isn't. The Finns pay very high personal taxes to finance their system. Having a nearly homogeneous population helps as well. However the Finns, like the Swedes are much less onerous on corporations with respects to taxation and regulation. They understand that they need strong corporate profits to finance those companies, especially those in the export sector. They understand that they need a healthy export orientated capitalist economy to pay for the needed imports (and also to generate the incomes to tax to support the socialist superstructure) and that those imports are not denominated in their local currency. Not having a world reserve currency and the need to import essentials and be able to pay for them imposes a certain discipline and sanity even among socialists. A lesson lost on our home grown democrat-communists.cubanbobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746305669005611456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90058918604588890772011-08-23T18:19:15.467-05:002011-08-23T18:19:15.467-05:00The United States is on its way to becoming Finlan...The United States is on its way to becoming Finland. Schools are becoming social service agencies:<br /><br />http://www.missourieducationwatchdog.com/2011/08/three-rs-of-education-today.htmlstlgretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05148560735290088930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46348356063689434972011-08-23T18:03:18.325-05:002011-08-23T18:03:18.325-05:00Chuck66, didn't remotely mean you. Agree with...Chuck66, didn't remotely mean you. Agree with the general drift that what works in a small, homogeneous country does not translate easily to the US.MrCharlie2https://www.blogger.com/profile/07938424707857154495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30214095485130538552011-08-23T17:52:15.732-05:002011-08-23T17:52:15.732-05:00Jose_K said...
Tell me: what's anybody in Finl...Jose_K said...<br />Tell me: what's anybody in Finland invented lately??<br />======================<br />Read for yourself. Finland is one of those countries that "hits well above their size" in innovation, science, industrial & arts accomplishments, technology.Cedarfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602418702398818596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37512443940927055502011-08-23T17:48:37.315-05:002011-08-23T17:48:37.315-05:00...and as of 2007, Finland spent about $7,000 per ...<i>...and as of 2007, Finland spent about $7,000 per secondary school pupil, and the US spent over $10,000.</i><br /><br />I have a theory that there's an inverse relationship between education cost and quality.<br /><br />Yes, we can learn a lot from the Finns. And save about $3000 per kid also.Salhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01326112431463279918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17954225954772226322011-08-23T17:36:51.482-05:002011-08-23T17:36:51.482-05:00teachers were effectively granted equal status wit...<i>teachers were effectively granted equal status with doctors and lawyers<br /></i>It used to be a prestigious job here, with low pay. Then all the bright, newly ambitious young women starting going to law school and med school instead of teaching before they got married.Ralph Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915708905660273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56486760772510582522011-08-23T17:33:48.737-05:002011-08-23T17:33:48.737-05:00So Finns in Finland are well educated. I bet that ...<i>So Finns in Finland are well educated. I bet that Finns raised in the US are also well educated.</i><br /><br />I took a look at the Washburn School District here in Wisconsin which is largely Finnish and yes, it performs very well against the rest of the state. That might be due to the influence of my very smart half-Finish nieces in those small (31 student) test classes, though!Calypso Factohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01455217189407301218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31064069083091497152011-08-23T17:28:40.818-05:002011-08-23T17:28:40.818-05:00In a gesture towards the less blessed peoples of t...In a gesture towards the less blessed peoples of the world, a gesture of pure multicultaral magnanimity, the Finns have voluntarily dispensed with the playing of Finlandia at the start of their athletic competitions and substituted for it the sound of the vuvuzela.ricpichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01321511130788764861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26030868764837092832011-08-23T17:16:40.513-05:002011-08-23T17:16:40.513-05:00"As Moynihan said, the key determining factor..."As Moynihan said, the key determining factor in the quality of an American school is its proximity to the Canadian border."<br /><br />Canada has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the distance from the Mexican border. Also the distance from Chicago.Chuck66https://www.blogger.com/profile/15834146425393263098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-52650428914280132762011-08-23T17:09:48.432-05:002011-08-23T17:09:48.432-05:00The only reasonable comments there were from peopl...The only reasonable comments there were from people who actually lived in Finland or the general area.<br /><br />The rest of the folks seemed to view the article as a prompt to spew their favorite US/White people insults.PatCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08920623662477828662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65509003044661409442011-08-23T17:05:29.532-05:002011-08-23T17:05:29.532-05:00Eric, you can do that. Take a small town school in...<i>Eric, you can do that. Take a small town school in North Dakota with 80% Norwegian-Americans, and maybe 20% German-Americans and you will see quite good results. The same if not better than a Finnish school.</i><br /><br />As Moynihan said, the key determining factor in the quality of an American school is its proximity to the Canadian border.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5275096319930626802011-08-23T17:04:07.334-05:002011-08-23T17:04:07.334-05:00Schools provide Fs for students who fail to unders...Schools provide Fs for students who fail to understand the material. Students are expected to take care of themselves (by working at a damn job while they study, which is not so bad) to demonstrate they are capable professionals upon graduation, which most candidates will not achieve. <br /><br />Or we could just coddle these students like they are useless drifters, and then ruin our institution's good name AND the value of the degree to those who are actually gifted.Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590811467601049788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25546891013549363332011-08-23T16:57:30.973-05:002011-08-23T16:57:30.973-05:00Note how idiotic most of the comments are in the M...Note how idiotic most of the comments are in the Metafilter thread.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7097302474925496502011-08-23T16:56:36.852-05:002011-08-23T16:56:36.852-05:00That's the great thing about homeschooling. W...That's the great thing about homeschooling. Want to give your kid a Finnish-style education? You can.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.com