tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post7447368522649859265..comments2024-03-28T11:02:05.551-05:00Comments on Althouse: "If I invoked the Insurrection Act against her wishes, the world would see a male Republican president usurping the authority of a female Democratic governor by declaring an insurrection in a largely African American city."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger139125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70306901675165609652010-11-17T13:41:32.696-06:002010-11-17T13:41:32.696-06:00Remember Barbara Bush's quote when visiting th...<i> Remember Barbara Bush's quote when visiting the Houston relief center</i><br /><br />Sending 100,000 Democrats to Houston hasn't done its politics any good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65375560965571071642010-11-16T01:58:00.295-06:002010-11-16T01:58:00.295-06:00For the record, one of the major suburbs directly ...For the record, one of the major suburbs directly adjacent to New Orleans and Orleans Parish within the Metro Statistical Area (MSM)--St Bernard Parish--with the towns of Chalmette, Arabi, and several smaller ones, fishing villages, etc., all of which were approx 94% white, was almost totally wiped off the map with 90%+ of the structures--schools, hospitals, homes--under water. Of course this devastation received little or no MSM coverage as it was nearly impossible to access save by helo. The numbers of white deaths in Chalmette alone exceeded those of blacks in Orleans Parish, IIRC, or very close thereto. And like the blacks in Orleans Parish, they were stranded on rooftops exposed to the elements w.o. food or water too--rescued in the main by CG helos. Almost ALL of this has REMAINED largely unreported<br />in the national press. To get a feel for the scope of the damage go visit Wiki under the "Chalmette" and St. Bernard" headings. You should note St. Bernard has the lowest life expectancy of ANY county in the US.--mainly due to the devastation of health-care facilities, pollution from an oil refinery due to Katrina-induced spills,etc. The entire Parish is STILL but a shadow of its former self--but all one hears or sees in the Nat. media is about the Lower 9th Ward--the predominantly black suburb of New Orleans proper. And while the devastation in the 9th was horrendous, so was it equally the case of white, but little covered St. Bernard.virgil xenophonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13509453343705968903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84465968308906510812010-11-15T21:51:11.246-06:002010-11-15T21:51:11.246-06:00Alpah Liberal wrote:
You know if those were white...Alpah Liberal wrote:<br /><br />You know if those were white people packed onto roofs and into a hellish situation in the dome, action would have been taken.<br /><br> So you're saying there were no white people stuck on their roofs in NO? And no whites in the Superdome?<br />And I guess you weren't aware that despite the argument that nothing was being done to help the poor black guys stuck on their roof, from the second that the hurricane hit landfall, their were helicopters flying 24/7 (so many that rescuers were most worried about collisions mid air) rescuing them. With your blood libels you should never ever complain about anything right wingers should say about Obama. Because not only are you talking out of your ass, you're engaging in one of the lowest smears possible. And after engaging in such petty demagoguery there is literally nothing you should complain about if the other side brings it up against Obama.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67725922045554599122010-11-15T15:07:25.343-06:002010-11-15T15:07:25.343-06:00You know if those were white people packed onto ro...<i>You know if those were white people packed onto roofs and into a hellish situation in the dome, action would have been taken.<br /></i><br /><br />Um, <i>action</i> such as?<br /><br />You have not the foggiest clue what actions were and were not taken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27371932143431290352010-11-15T13:55:25.037-06:002010-11-15T13:55:25.037-06:00Who gives a rat's ass if you were offended by ...Who gives a rat's ass if you were offended by being criticized, George? <br /><br />Once again, you were warned of a threat and, once again, you failed to act on it. You were asleep at the controls when this happened and just didn't give a rat's ass. <br /><br />You know if those were white people packed onto roofs and into a hellish situation in the dome, action would have been taken.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27252504638795777412010-11-15T12:03:10.759-06:002010-11-15T12:03:10.759-06:00With respect to LTG Honore: he was the CINC of NO...With respect to LTG Honore: he was the CINC of NORTHCOM ( newly created unified command)--as such he had absolutely NO authority to direct any parrish sheriff, or any state official to do anything--and the parrish sheriff's knew it--he was a media sensation, but the reality is that NORTHCOM's authority was extremely circumscribed the legislation already mentioned.--and its a good thing if you really think the US Army is what you want running things in your local government.<br />Their job, as LTG Honore mentioned was to play the away game and coordinate with FEMA on the use of military supplies and equipmeent consistent with local requests.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18210490441927640192010-11-15T11:30:07.696-06:002010-11-15T11:30:07.696-06:00Thanks, reader. I'd say the same for myself. S...Thanks, reader. I'd say the same for myself. State and city did poorly in getting that small percentage of people out who could not do so themselves, in particular. Some of the police lost their minds (sloanasaurus made some incredibly prescient remarks about the Danziger Bridge shootings, for which cops are now facing trial). There was no "insurrection," and between police and La. Nat'l Guard, order was restored within a couple of days. The great need was for rescue, and supplies, and all three levels of gov't did poorly on those notes, for a few days, then performed quite well, and continued to do so for months.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61838506919979953662010-11-15T09:40:58.949-06:002010-11-15T09:40:58.949-06:00Beth: You might be interested in going back to tha...Beth: You might be interested in going back to that thread, too, given that you also commented in it (from the place to which you, wisely, evacuated).reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44070184093058786742010-11-15T09:39:24.895-06:002010-11-15T09:39:24.895-06:00I stand by the comments (my very first on this blo...I stand by the comments (my very first on this blog, as it happens) that I made back then in the thread I linked, every bit as strongly all these years later and with the benefit of knowing all the fallout & etc. since. A lack of local urgency and effective response was hugely responsible for what played out. I agree that Brown and Chertoff weren't particularly good at their jobs, but the root and main cause of problems with evacuation and first response was the lack of urgency and poor reaction of city and state (i.e. local, not national) officeholders.reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82086852186082243162010-11-15T09:32:54.420-06:002010-11-15T09:32:54.420-06:00As I recall, pretty much right up to when Katrina ...<a href="http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/09/quite-frankly-if-theyd-been-able-to.html" rel="nofollow">As I recall, pretty much right up to when Katrina hit, Blanco was still trying to decide whether to attend an out-of-state meeting. She didn't take the warnings particularly seriously from the git-go and both she and Nagin handled the situation very poorly before, during and afterward.</a>reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8258312621465768052010-11-15T09:02:03.145-06:002010-11-15T09:02:03.145-06:00Beth said:
I haven't read Bush's memoir. D...Beth said:<br /><i>I haven't read Bush's memoir. Did he mention that Haley Barbour also refused his request to invoke the Insurrection Act?</i><br /><br />The reason Barbour refused the request to invoke the Insurrection Act was that in Mississippi, there was no insurrection. Mississippians came together and responded to the aftermath of the hurricane. Law enforcement officers didn't leave en masse. Of course, with a smaller population on the coast (and since we didn't have people living below sea level) we didn't have thousands of people stuck on their roofs. The problems they had were restoring power, clearing debris, and waiting for a FEMA trailer to live in until you could rebuild.<br /><br />Same thing in Alabama.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11866563456301493356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63655315587425280842010-11-15T02:35:25.887-06:002010-11-15T02:35:25.887-06:00The Crack Emcee said...
I repeat, people:
...The Crack Emcee said...<br /><br /> I repeat, people:<br /><br /> Shilo = not worth talking to.<br /><br /><br />CRACK JOHNSON IS RIGHT!!!<br /><br />But he is not important in and of himself. He is data, on the next wave of new or reincarnated trolls/quasi-trolls, when they can no longer live with themselves or keep a straight face, that we seem to be seeing on Althouse. <br /><br />I'd be more interested in why he picked his nick than discussing policy at the present time, but I think everybody should get at least one chance. As H. Beam Piper wrote in <i>Space Viking,<b>And when somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means.</b></i> Hawk-handsaw check.Nichevohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12591460407621898458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20374692654129762592010-11-15T01:23:11.546-06:002010-11-15T01:23:11.546-06:00I repeat, people:
Shilo = not worth talking to.I repeat, people:<br /><br />Shilo = not worth talking to.The Crack Emceehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08366101526773588864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77361825234876339852010-11-14T22:45:39.270-06:002010-11-14T22:45:39.270-06:00The Crack Emcee said...
And, Jesus,
~~~~~
Pl...<i>The Crack Emcee said...<br /><br /> And, Jesus,<br />~~~~~</i><br /><br />Please, no need to mention deity when telling lemmings to ignore me by posting a whole paragraph about me lol.<br /><br />Quite the disconnect, eh.<br /><br />btw crack, you yourself did a good job ignoring me ~ congrats! Too funny.<br /><br />ciaoshilohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490952508600134457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6410029301853388162010-11-14T22:38:30.685-06:002010-11-14T22:38:30.685-06:00Beth wrote:
I haven't read Bush's memoir. ...Beth wrote:<br />I haven't read Bush's memoir. Did he mention that Haley Barbour also refused his request to invoke the Insurrection Act?<br /><br />The other area of disagreement is what the federal troops were needed for - to restore order, or to do rescue and evacuations. My memory is that Blanco didn't want federal troops, not under her command, pointing weapons at people in the street. <br /><br> that is exactly true. One of the primary reasons that the national guard was called in was because of all the news stories about civil unrest (the snipers shooting at helicopters etc) and when bringing in suppiles would they need to act as police officers, or act as support. And there was disgreement about their roles, which would determine whether BUsh could take control from the locals. <br />And for Cedarford here is your boy Honore talking about the proper role of the armys role in dealing with Katrina and issues like Katrina:<br /><b>“The role of the military is to play the away game. The home game is up to law enforcement and federal agencies. Inside individual states it is the responsibility of that state’s governor and the National Guard to respond.</b> The whole notion of putting the military in charge of homeland defense was a bit frightening. <b>People were looking for an easy answer and the military seemed to provide it. But how do you take a federal force and use it within the United States without violating the Posse Comitatus Act? The question was, How much leeway should be given to the military in a domestic crisis?</b>” <br />Not something so simple that a president can simply push past a reluctant governor. We have laws in place for a reason. Now, in this case it may turn out that the laws were insufficient to deal with a crisis of this magnitude, but trying to determine who had jurisdiction is not dithering. <br />Further from Honore:“the media [know] little about disaster relief and the laws that govern it. They [do] not know about the Stafford Act of the Helms-Biden Act or the Posse Comitatus Act. Many were merely bodies on the scene who were giving the American public impressions and feelings rather than news.”<br /><br><br />Exactly. You're simply reacting to public impressions and feelings based on reporters who have no clue about how to deal with disaster managment or any realistic assessment of what is expected.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33301486217511603892010-11-14T22:17:09.603-06:002010-11-14T22:17:09.603-06:00Look out everybody:
Beth and Cedarford are on the...Look out everybody:<br /><br />Beth and Cedarford are on the case!<br /><br />And, Jesus, I don't know who this Shilo character is but, if you guys keep playing pattycake with this nutjob, I'ma start losing reespect for y'all. All he does is tag you, with nothing to back it up, but then you ask him to do so and he does it again - get a clue: <br /><br />He ain't worth talking to!The Crack Emceehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08366101526773588864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72110341310572091192010-11-14T21:24:50.457-06:002010-11-14T21:24:50.457-06:00And any time Russell Honore wants to run for offic...And any time Russell Honore wants to run for office - any office - I'll vote for him.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26305886930168177492010-11-14T21:23:45.626-06:002010-11-14T21:23:45.626-06:00I don't disagree that Blanco is burnishing her...I don't disagree that Blanco is burnishing her record. So is Bush. <br /><br />Blanco requested 40,000 troops on the Wednesday (Sept. 2?) after the storm. She argues that she did so the day of the storm but that she didn't know she had to follow particular procedures. I agree that's inexcusable. <br /><br />I haven't read Bush's memoir. Did he mention that Haley Barbour also refused his request to invoke the Insurrection Act?<br /><br />The other area of disagreement is what the federal troops were needed for - to restore order, or to do rescue and evacuations. My memory is that Blanco didn't want federal troops, not under her command, pointing weapons at people in the street. <br /><br />There's no question in my mind that state and local officials badly bungled many aspects of the situation, but the national response was flawed as well.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71702422142244677652010-11-14T21:18:58.448-06:002010-11-14T21:18:58.448-06:00As for Bush, he dithered...
Edutcher - Actually, ...As for Bush, he dithered...<br /><br />Edutcher - <i>Actually, he didn't; Blanco and Nagin did. As I noted above, a lot of bad reporting and outright lies were told about Katrina (not unlike the campaign in Iraq) for the purpose of making Dubya look bad.</i><br /><br />Actually, he did dither. He built himself up as "The Deciderer", the 2nd Churchill, and milked 9/11 to the max promising he and "The Heroes" would "Keep America Perfectly Safe".<br /><br />The Katrina hit...and the mighty "Deciderer" dithered...held paralyzed by right wing fetishes about "Posse Comitatus" and an inept schoolteacher turned governor (Blanco) even more inept than Sharron Angle or Christine O'Donnell that Bush was afraid for days to challenge. Because she was an inept woman, not an inept man.<br /><br />So much for the 2nd Churchill. <br /><br />They finally got adult leadership in place - but it wasn't Blanco, Nagib, Brownie, the cowardly and corrupted "Heroes" of the New Orleans police, or even Bush - it was a Creole General named Russell Honore`.Cedarfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602418702398818596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80446914079823857902010-11-14T21:15:19.518-06:002010-11-14T21:15:19.518-06:00We are a nation of laws, and while they serves us ...We are a nation of laws, and while they serves us well often, it's clear they don't serve us always.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02094488084214911115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26450605309969633622010-11-14T20:21:31.545-06:002010-11-14T20:21:31.545-06:00I won't even blame Bunny for his heckuva job. ...I won't even blame Bunny for his heckuva job. You are dealing with the worst natural disaster we've faced in modern times. And a whole city is flooded, And communications are shot to hell. And the people on the ground who FEMA is supposed to coordinate with are similiarly overwhelmed and nowhere to be found. Excuse me if there are problems. What on earth do people expect, that in the midst of a disaster of that magnitude that people arent' going to make mistakes or make an order that is incorrect, or take time to get information that may or may not be accurate and may take longer to get there than is expected.<br />You could have a thousand things go wrong, and still have a successful rescue operation, which is what this was. <br />Even the charge that Bunny (calling him that because I forgot his last name at the moment) was an incompetent who had no experience dealing with emergecies, belies the fact that prior to Katrina he had already dealt with mutliple hurricanes admirably. It's just that most hurricanes are not like Katrina.<br />Lets stipulate a rule. THe bigger the hurricane or disaster, the more time it will take to resolve, the more problems will be encountered, the more things will go wrong, and the more of a FUBAR situation it will become. And this was true with Andrew too, only Katrina was worse than Andrew by far. <br />People complaining about the rescue attempts at Katrina seem to be operating under the assumption that a rescue attempt should take a certain amount of time regardless of situations on the ground and that the size of the problem should in no way impact the response to the problem. <br />You could argue that a thousand things went wrong. But this much is known. THis was the biggeset natural disaster, causing more devastation than any modern hurricane. And Bush poured more resources into it than any president in history towards any previous disaster. And despite the myriad problems the rescue attempt essentially relocated all the people from one submerged city, despite a complete failure on the local responders part (and hey lets not totally blame them either, it was kind of an overwhelming situation) into outlying cities in under three weeks. That is a success not a failure.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2865632148650494492010-11-14T20:09:25.213-06:002010-11-14T20:09:25.213-06:00Projection lol as it was Fen who inanely said: you...Projection lol as it was Fen who inanely said: <b><i>you sure spend alot of time telling everyone how smart you are.</i></b> No, but I did spend a couple hrs. amusing myself at this conservative circle jerk thread/site, where Obama ad hominems/winger disingenuous sarcasm are the norm. Shocking!<br /><br />and please feel free to keep mentioning my name ... or not, as I wouldn't want Ann's feeble court jester Jay to dream about me tonight.<br /><br />'nuf said!shilohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16490952508600134457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41592633918749190412010-11-14T20:00:09.086-06:002010-11-14T20:00:09.086-06:00There's a reason why God put New Orleans 30...There's a reason why God put New Orleans 30' below sea-level.<br /><br />You saw that reason manifest itself as perfectly good buses were swamped and made useless by inaction, the Superdome became an open-air sewer, an elected Mayor locked himself inside a luxury hotel bathroom to assume the fetal position for two days (I hear Stalin did that, too. Must be a Lefty thing when confronted by a crisis), an elected Governor found it impossible to find her own ass with both hands and a flashlight, as thousands of morons took to looting TV's and jewelry from Wal Mart, or trade gunshots with the few cops who did try to do their jobs, instead of trying to save their lives.<br /><br />People too stupid to get out of the way of a hurricane -- one that they watched cross the Atlantic for a week on television before it struck -- don't deserve to be saved.Matthew Notohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08881509233809999186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77857430435936280682010-11-14T19:55:23.470-06:002010-11-14T19:55:23.470-06:00Presidents who are forced to think about sensitivi...Presidents who are forced to think about sensitivity are less effective. The people who push the sensitivity question just get everyone killed for their beautiful viewpoints. Presidents should just do the sensible thing instead of the sensitive thing. The sensitive thing is rarely sensible. Obama is sensitive but never sensible.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13795648026648717362010-11-14T19:46:08.359-06:002010-11-14T19:46:08.359-06:00Another huge problem post Katrina was communicatio...Another huge problem post Katrina was communications. Almost all of the telco lines went through New Orleans. Much of that was wiped out. It was hard to know which reports were true or false. When outside law enforcement agencies came in they had no idea where anything was. <br /><br />Shilo has no clue as to what he's talking about.Rouxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12459659398010937497noreply@blogger.com