tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post6863767846035919769..comments2024-03-29T00:04:32.434-05:00Comments on Althouse: A passage in my casebook that I've read many times struck me as funny this year — after the presidential election. Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48308716276758641092016-11-23T16:32:04.168-06:002016-11-23T16:32:04.168-06:00Trump is not WJ Bryan, he is clearly Andrew Jackso...Trump is not WJ Bryan, he is clearly Andrew Jackson, as I've said many times before. A traitor to his class, who ran as the "representative of the common man" because no one else was, JQ Adams his opponent who knew he was cheated of the election cried in public every day up to and including the inauguration. Then Old Hickory burned down both parties and their establishments. Good fun. Got the evangelical vote too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54250221572080579872016-11-23T08:58:39.368-06:002016-11-23T08:58:39.368-06:00So what you are telling us, Althouse, is that you ...So what you are telling us, Althouse, is that you DID realize that politicized movies were a thing even back in 1960...<br /><br />And thank you for suggesting I reread your post and see exactly who it was pointing out the politicized movie. My first pass read YOUR note on the movie incorrectly.mikeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17875483485290838207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28758261542332483312016-11-23T08:13:28.331-06:002016-11-23T08:13:28.331-06:00The play, Inherit the Wind, was produced on Broadw...The play, Inherit the Wind, was produced on Broadway during the McCarthy trials. Aside from its pointed bigotry of the southern mentality, its portrayal of the Southern Evangelical Minister best documents the origins of the anti-religious dry rot of the New York intellectual elite well punctuated by the completely racist commentary of H.L. Mencken. <br /><br />This is not to defend the racist Dixiecrat South. It does well to note that the image of southerners as racist and backwards originates in the byways of an equally bigoted north.<br /><br />Other significant fact the play ignored was that Scopes volunteered to challenge the law. It was the northern press that jumped on the chance. It was a press spectacle before the trial started. Daniel Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12811235498203906479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3641752604551572732016-11-23T07:39:04.115-06:002016-11-23T07:39:04.115-06:00"What's usually lost in this story is tha...<i>"What's usually lost in this story is that it was more about social Darwinism than Darwinism per se. The textbook that was supposedly used by Scopes (A Civic Biology by George Hunter) explicity taught social Darwinism and white supremacy. More specifically, it taught these things as scientific discoveries. They were presented as elements of evolution -- not as implications of evolution, but as a part of theory itself. The people who were opposed to evolution were actually taking a stand against racism and white supremacy, and having these things taught to their children as established scientific facts."</i><br /><br /><i>If</i> this is true--that the fight was of progressives against the teaching of theories of racial superiority--they should have fought to suppress that particular book, then, rather than try to prohibit the teaching of Darwin's theory. In fact, they should have used Darwin's <i>On Origin of Species</i>.<br /><br />Do we know this is actually the basis of Scopes' arrest and trial? I'd be surprised if it were so, but then, life is often surprising. (Perhaps this was Bryan's objection in this case, but the people of Tennessee? I'm doubtful.)Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75358469928631547282016-11-23T07:30:10.240-06:002016-11-23T07:30:10.240-06:00"What Bryan objected to was teaching that man...<i>"What Bryan objected to was teaching that man was just another kind of animal, and that he occupied no special place in the universe. If man is only an animal, nothing is forbidden him or required of him more that is not forbidden or required of any other animal."</i><br /><br />But Man <i>is</i> just another kind of animal.<br /><br />Everything that is forbidden us is forbidden <i>by</i> us, not by any external force. Much that we forbid ourselves derives from ignorance, but much derives from our nature as pack animals: to survive the forces of nature we must exist in social groups, each individual augmenting the other in tasks to be done. A social group devises rules to moderate friction between individuals and make social relations more functional...for the greater good of the group's survival.<br /><br /> Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34390078826494697432016-11-23T06:35:19.722-06:002016-11-23T06:35:19.722-06:00The whole story as we know it falls apart a bit wh...The whole story as we know it falls apart a bit when you find out Scopes was recruited and agreed to be arrested and tried. The whole trial was a staged event. It's studied in education classes, too, but probably from a different perspective. Today most disagreements about teaching evolution come from two places- a misunderstanding of what the word "theory" means in science, and people believing evolution says "man evolved from the apes". I've had a few run-ins with parents, which ended amicably when we listened to each other. I'd love to sit in your class, Ann, and learn more about the case from the legal perspective, but I don't live close enough to ask.Eleanorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03184799360123325125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86223865335096007162016-11-23T03:57:15.356-06:002016-11-23T03:57:15.356-06:00Hillary is not the bigoted ignoramus portrayed by ...Hillary is not the bigoted ignoramus portrayed by some blogs.<br />She has run two times as the Democratic candidate for<br />president... <br />BudBrownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10586584610767031572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50064725217801184292016-11-22T21:09:33.467-06:002016-11-22T21:09:33.467-06:00What's usually lost in this story is that it w...What's usually lost in this story is that it was more about social Darwinism than Darwinism per se. The textbook that was supposedly used by Scopes (<i>A Civic Biology</i> by George Hunter) explicity taught social Darwinism and white supremacy. More specifically, it taught these things as scientific discoveries. They were presented as elements of evolution -- not as implications of evolution, but as a part of theory itself. The people who were opposed to evolution were actually taking a stand against racism and white supremacy, and having these things taught to their children as established scientific facts.<br /><br />Now, in retrospect, we realize that they should have made a distinction between evolution and social Darwinism, so that accepting the former does not require (or even imply) accepting the latter. But that's a mistake that both sides made. Many of the most prominent evolutionists, including Darwin himself, understood it to entail the superiority of certain ethnicities over others. It wasn't until the horrors of eugenics became known that people began looking for reasons to distinguish social Darwinism from Darwinism simpliciter.Jim S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15538540873375357030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58436809432926679892016-11-22T21:06:27.573-06:002016-11-22T21:06:27.573-06:00“When someone shows you who they are, believe them...“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” ~Maya Angelou<br />11/22/16, 5:56 PM<br /><br />And who or what do you think you've shown yourself to be?Bad Lieutenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091901464339059169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60792474050607520812016-11-22T21:05:47.938-06:002016-11-22T21:05:47.938-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bad Lieutenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18091901464339059169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3074107680582098092016-11-22T20:08:46.602-06:002016-11-22T20:08:46.602-06:00I don't think it was in the movie but apparent...I don't think it was in the movie but apparently, after the trial, Mencken made a derogatory remark to Darrow about Bryan. Darrow replied, "What would a man like you know about a man like that?". mockturtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507310332014103437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14883191811980716962016-11-22T19:51:52.852-06:002016-11-22T19:51:52.852-06:00Ed Larson, "The Summer of the Gods" is a...Ed Larson, "The Summer of the Gods" is an excellent treatment of the Scopes controversy that recognizes WJ Bryan's considerable talents. Much of the controversy was stirred up by the media to sell papers. D. B. Lighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05663484917515894917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-13554777697027036052016-11-22T19:28:25.293-06:002016-11-22T19:28:25.293-06:00Obama is a bigoted ignoramus and he was elected tw...Obama is a bigoted ignoramus and he was elected twice.Real Americanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07457301904108193495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15845956659485020232016-11-22T19:18:15.178-06:002016-11-22T19:18:15.178-06:00An evolutionary process and evolutionary creationi...An evolutionary process and evolutionary creationism are separable concepts. The former is a chaotic process observable and reproducible in the scientific domain, while the latter is either a fantasy (i.e. unlikely or never to be explained) or an article of faith (i.e. explained by external testimony or evidence) based on liberal assumptions/assertions (e.g. uniformity, linearity, directional) about the nature of time and space. The conflict arises between two interest groups, theists and atheists, around creation, not evolution. The latter establishes a logical domain, and forces the limited frame of reference in time and space that defines the scientific domain.n.nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04252447117532342957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-593852098130413292016-11-22T19:03:53.831-06:002016-11-22T19:03:53.831-06:00"So what you are telling us, Althouse, is tha..."So what you are telling us, Althouse, is that you did not realize that politicized movies were a thing even back in 1960..."<br /><br />I have no idea how you could read this post to mean that.<br /><br />Read the last sentence and think until you see what I found funny.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51352932162084258612016-11-22T18:22:05.200-06:002016-11-22T18:22:05.200-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Quaestorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13688608372863540573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72170107579012976162016-11-22T17:56:25.321-06:002016-11-22T17:56:25.321-06:00That a man had been a major-party candidate for Pr...<i>That a man had been a major-party candidate for President seemed to make it highly unlikely that he could be a bigoted ignoramus. The evidence doesn't work so well now.</i> <br /><br />My sentiments exactly. I could not have said it better, except to name names. "Stupid" also works.<br /><br />“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” ~Maya Angelougadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06219461694806089345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-92086560380664807902016-11-22T17:50:55.876-06:002016-11-22T17:50:55.876-06:00It's never been really clear to me why people ...It's never been really clear to me why people want to have a dispute over the theory of evolution for religious reasons -- unless they have similar problems with geology and astronomy. When astronomers look at the light from a distant star and say it is a billion light years away (for example), they are saying that the star existed at least a billion years ago. And the current estimates put the age of the universe at around 13.2 billion years. Meanwhile, geologists estimate the Earth's age at around 4.54 billion years. Humans, on the other hand have been around for on the order of 100,000 years or less. Major religions seem happy to envision a deity who exists outside of human scales and experiences of time.<br /><br />So if you believe that an eternal God waited for 4.5399 billion years before bringing humans into existence, what theological difference doe sit make if God did it by the elegant means of natural selection, operating over tens of millions of years, or by slapping some dust or cosmic fluff, or whatever in His hands? For that matter, what if (to take a somewhat more poetic approach) God created Man by giving him a soul (instantaneously) rather than by manipulating his anatomy?<br /><br />Lucienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03349057001062431504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27125218193281507492016-11-22T17:23:32.499-06:002016-11-22T17:23:32.499-06:00That a man had been a major-party candidate for Pr...<i>That a man had been a major-party candidate for President seemed to make it highly unlikely that he could be a bigoted ignoramus. </i><br /><br />His superstition and silly concerns about evolution say otherwise.Fernandinandehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11253225431705407699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73696569701541721442016-11-22T17:09:31.981-06:002016-11-22T17:09:31.981-06:00Quaestor, And the Band Played On was one of the be...Quaestor, <i>And the Band Played On</i> was one of the best-written chronologies I've ever read. When the gay bath-house regulars spoke of protecting the 'gay lifestyle', that behavior, not civil rights, was their focus. It was bold of Shilts to tell what really went down in SF during the early AIDS epidemic of which he, himself, was a victim. It was bold, too, of <i>60 Minutes</i> to interview him about his book, especially as he said that some with AIDS intentionally donated blood in order to infect 'regular people', believing that more attention would be paid to the epidemic that way.<br /><br />The political wranglings between the NIH and the CDC were eye-opening, too. mockturtlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507310332014103437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48861995702376353022016-11-22T16:57:21.046-06:002016-11-22T16:57:21.046-06:00You wanna outlaw sodomy?
This reminds me of And t...<i>You wanna outlaw sodomy?</i><br /><br />This reminds me of <i>And the Band Played On: Politics, People, and the AIDS Epidemic,</i> by Randy Shilts.<br /><br />Shilts documents that when someone on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors suggested closing the bath houses on the grounds that rampant anonymous anal copulation was a clear and present danger to public health he got pummeled in the local gay press as a "homophobe" and the most egregious human rights violator since Heinrich Himmler. The proposed ordinance didn't outlaw sodomy, but it had that effect. The intent was protection of public health, a recognized function of civil authority since Bronze Age at least. The protesters wanted to attack the effect, "how dare you try to curb our appetites!" but instead they promised nothing but political grief to anyone who considered the measure on its merits. Thus the baths remained open and the band played on.Quaestorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13688608372863540573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63399017880994565142016-11-22T16:23:19.767-06:002016-11-22T16:23:19.767-06:00Charles Darwin and Tom Wolfe from a review of Wolf...Charles Darwin and Tom Wolfe from a review of Wolfe's "The Kingdom of Speech."<br /><br />"Wolfe demolishes Darwin's and Chomsky's theories of Everything... don't expect Wolfe to tie the demolition up nicely with a theory of Everything ending or even middle. Darwin, in to addition having his Theory of Everything (Evolution) run aground on the problem of Speech, is exposed as an almost plagiarist who uses his upper-class British connections to take credit for the theory of evolution when a "commoner" beat him into print."<br /><br />Bryan had a point. Maybe.David Begleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01553331226126840029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35065474066472478442016-11-22T16:21:25.421-06:002016-11-22T16:21:25.421-06:00"But the validity of a statute must be determ..."But the validity of a statute must be determined by its natural and legal effect, rather than proclaimed motives." Nonsense. As Quaestor quotes Fortis: "Arkansas’ law selects from the body of knowledge a particular segment which it proscribes for the sole reason that it is deemed to conflict with a particular religious doctrine." He attacked the reason, not the effect. As have many judges in many other cases. You wanna outlaw sodomy? Bad motive. Down you go. And so on.Sebastianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00505631054204611033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84457729710754701502016-11-22T16:19:35.785-06:002016-11-22T16:19:35.785-06:00"Hunter said...
So the evidence against his b..."Hunter said...<br />So the evidence against his bigotry is his being allied with progressive Democrat Woodrow Wilson, perhaps the most racist president of the 20th century?<br /><br />11/22/16, 2:37 PM"<br /><br />^^ This.<br /><br />The author's assumption seems to be that of course a Democrat would never be a racist -- just like we were always at war with Eastasia.clinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15002827680487639155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-92005862211708925912016-11-22T15:52:59.062-06:002016-11-22T15:52:59.062-06:00That a man had been a major-party candidate for Pr...<i>That a man had been a major-party candidate for President seemed to make it highly unlikely that he could be a bigoted ignoramus. The evidence doesn't work so well now.</i><br /><br />@Althouse, you mean because of Barack Obama, right?Big Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831645119853118904noreply@blogger.com