tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post444178135738824283..comments2024-03-28T13:46:26.410-05:00Comments on Althouse: Should "post-traumatic stress disorder" be renamed "post-traumatic stress injury"?Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-31358048182080227872012-05-08T07:49:03.320-05:002012-05-08T07:49:03.320-05:00I know a man who I served with in Viet Nam, who wa...I know a man who I served with in Viet Nam, who was awarded PTSD for having "survivors guilt". That's no shit. With the award and then receiving a full disability check from Social Security (which he told me that got there first), he's making over $4,000 a month. The first check from each was huge. You are awarded the money based on when you filed your claim. It's all tax free. He bought a large farm, and travels around hunting and fishing, drinking large amounts of beer. He feels better.<br /><br />If you can qualify for PTSD, you'll never have to work again for the rest of your life.AllenShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08848966772462502893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4901708492409681052012-05-08T05:06:09.402-05:002012-05-08T05:06:09.402-05:00I always thought disorder was a type of injury.I always thought disorder was a type of injury.AlanKHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00415873942467466303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44435803579805760762012-05-07T18:57:52.901-05:002012-05-07T18:57:52.901-05:00"TMink said...
If only that were so. The Am...<i>"TMink said... <br /><br />If only that were so. The American Psychological Association has no been much concerned with science for at least a decade. They awarded a lifetime achievement award to a former president who lost her license due to having a sexual relationship with a patient. Tip or the iceberg. I have not paid my dues to them in about 10 years.<br /><br />Trey"</i><br /><br />I'll agree with you on that. But if you click on the link the Professor gave, you'll note that I'm actually referring to the American <i>Psychiatric</i> Association. Which makes it a subdiscipline in the field of medicine and, I'd hazard, a more evidence-based profession that's hopefully far more rigorous than psychology.<br /><br />Yes, I know what you mean by psychologists not being much concerned with science. I have a friend who several years out of college actually was in academia designing experiments and once expressed misgivings to me at the rigor and methodology he saw. But anyway, I'm referring to medical professionals, not pseudomedical ones. If nothing else, from what little I've seen (a family friend is a practicing psychiatrist), they're at least more aware of their limitations and at least pay more attention to evidence based practices than non-medical practitioners.Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89585277432543784932012-05-07T18:52:49.425-05:002012-05-07T18:52:49.425-05:00That reminds me of another great thing about Romne...That reminds me of another great thing about Romney. He knows the secret for avoiding the problem altogether. Neither <a href="http://www.politicususa.com/mitt-romney-draft-dodger.html" rel="nofollow">injury nor disorder</a> for some!harrogatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02026095215683554629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32361074723742708262012-05-07T18:41:33.836-05:002012-05-07T18:41:33.836-05:00Eric said...
Makes you wonder how any of the WW I...<i>Eric said... <br />Makes you wonder how any of the WW II "for the duration" guys came back sane.</i><br /><br />Almost all had far fewer days of combat than today's Vet.<br /><br />D-Day to VE-Day was 333 days or so, so most of the troops on the French front spent under 300 days, most of that in a pursuit, which is fairly low stress....<br /><br />Today's Army Vet, potentially upwards of 1000 days in theater... <br /><br />PS: 8th Air Force? The Bomber force had higher loss rates than the infantry, but 35 missions was the max standard. You could do that in 4-5 months and have hot meals and clean sheets.<br /><br />PPS North Atlantic Convoys? very stressful...The Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77911805511970323092012-05-07T18:33:14.348-05:002012-05-07T18:33:14.348-05:00TMink said...
Drill Sgt, I am assuming you were i...<i>TMink said... <br />Drill Sgt, I am assuming you were in Viet Nam, a big assumption, but if so, do you feel comfortable eating at Asian restaurants?</i><br /><br />I love Chinese food, Northern more than Southern. Thai also, I like both for the spice. Japanese can be good. Love rice...<br /><br />Vietnamese? Not at all :)<br /><br />Not for the implied racism, but rather, I've seen fish sauce made :)<br /><br />PS: on the hunting stuff? Birds I would not have an issue with, Stalking deer through the wood? Too much like work. <br /><br />PPS: I wasn't a pacifist after the war, I was a professional Army officer. I just didnt find hunting to be relaxing....<br /><br />PPPS: Guns? I respect them very much. I am very careful around guns, be they 9mm or 120mm.The Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47101890966701012322012-05-07T16:58:13.760-05:002012-05-07T16:58:13.760-05:00The military certainly recognizes PTSD as an injur...The military certainly recognizes PTSD as an injury, and has been doing a lot of work trying to figure out how to prevent it, detect it early, and treat it.<br /><br />Army research suggests for soldiers, anyway, the length of time in theater without a break makes a big difference. I read somewhere for this reason they were planning to shorten tours in A-stan, so you would be in for fewer months and out for at least double that time, but I don't know if they ever went through with it.<br /><br />Makes you wonder how any of the WW II "for the duration" guys came back sane.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330712047609650184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61272556140824760932012-05-07T16:36:12.719-05:002012-05-07T16:36:12.719-05:00Straightforwardly, the idea of PTSD is that:1)an i...Straightforwardly, the idea of PTSD is that:1)an individual undergoes one or more incidents of traumatic stress (doesn't have to be combat); 2) later (hence "post") the individual suffers from some constellation of symptoms meeting the diaganostic criteria established by the APA; and 3) these symptoms are not the typical or normal result of experiencing the trauma (hence, "disorder").<br /><br />But just because one doesn't react to the traumatic stress in a way that qualifies as a disorder, that doesn't mean that the stress and its aftermath, are not unpleasant (perhaps extremely so), it just means that reactions below the threshhold of a pTSd diagnosis are essentially normal reactions.<br /><br />By analogy, it is normal to be very sad and soewhat depressed after the death of a family member, and this has traditionally been called "uncomplicated breavement" -- not a disorder. On the other hand, some people react in abnormally pathological ways to the death of a familiy member, and do suffer a resulting mental disorder.<br /><br />It's a worthwhile distinction to make, and one that should not be smoothed over just to avoid "stigma". The solution is to stop stigmatizing mental disorders. Euphemisms will not solve problems.Lucienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05308128768031294392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70974860710611421802012-05-07T16:25:35.280-05:002012-05-07T16:25:35.280-05:00Just reading about WW2 vets who decades later are ...Just reading about WW2 vets who decades later are beginning to exhibit PTSD<br /><br />2009 article<br /><a href="http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/07/posttraumatic_stress_disorder.html" rel="nofollow">Post-traumatic stress disorder hitting World War II vets</a>lemondoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14606734670170393751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11151730952102083102012-05-07T15:59:29.606-05:002012-05-07T15:59:29.606-05:00I fully feel that changing the phrase is political...I fully feel that changing the phrase is political gaming. And I read the comments here with interest. I'm married (37 years)to a Vietnam vet that was diagnosed just 4 years ago with PTSD. The diagnosis has been a life (and marriage) saver. He managed to keep it together for about 28 years. Then he fell apart. Six years ago I was mentally and emotionally exhausted, and ready to give up an walk away, because I couldn't do anything to help him. (I know he was too). Luckily, an old high school classmate reconnected and steered him to the VA. I am firmly convinced that if that had not happened, Mike would be one of the homeless men you pass on the street. Thankfully, he also knew he was falling apart, and is happy to medicate and accept therapy, he wants to be normal, but knows he can't be on his own. I get real touchy real fast about this subject. I feel a lot of guilt over it too. I knew he needed help, just didn't know how, or where to find it. And yes, sometimes it galls me that we're accepting "government help" - but then I have to remind myself of what he did, and what he carried around silently for so many years. And I know it isn't "help", but due. <br />Thanks for letting me vent.Traditional Tibbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12319460575409844580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24177102023080675592012-05-07T15:40:39.999-05:002012-05-07T15:40:39.999-05:00Roger J ... you continued to hunt just as the majo...Roger J ... you continued to hunt just as the majority of my contemporary vets did, too. <br /><br />Actually, The Drill SGT is one of the few I've heard that reacted as I did and just stopped hunting. No agenda, just stopped, that's all. <br /><br />In my case it was not and is not an anti-hunting attitude (so long as the hunter eats what he hunts), just a loss of the desire to shoot things. I've worked in slaughter houses so it isn't squeamishness AFAIK. I still maintain firearm proficiency, and belong to two ranges with annual memberships.<br /><br />I do know a couple PTSD vets who have verified claims and status. They a great folks, creative and capable people. That have one common characteristic, and that is a pronounced difficulty in focusing on a task for extended periods of time. A feature of this seems, to me anyway, to be an opposing increased almost laser like focus when under new stress ...e.g., better in crisis than every day. Heck, I find that somewhat true about me as well, better in crisis mode. Things seem clearer. Whatever.<br /><br />One of best friends ever is one of the PSTD guys. We've not traded war stories much if at all for over 30+ years now, but I do know he reflects on killing as something "you can't take back" ...that reality is just how it is in his consciousness. He's a big ole USMC guy who I'd trust at my back any day, forever. Typical Marine, too ... when we're in the wilds of the rockies, I occasionally have to suggest to him that a rope or two might be useful in clambering around steep ledges. Nah, he says that's for Army brats ... like me.Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54753924010088807422012-05-07T15:34:55.415-05:002012-05-07T15:34:55.415-05:00How about 'syndrome' or just PTS?How about 'syndrome' or just PTS?lemondoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14606734670170393751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24341107175282110532012-05-07T15:19:02.144-05:002012-05-07T15:19:02.144-05:00N D Spinelli
I have to chose my words carefully h...N D Spinelli<br /><br />I have to chose my words carefully here, but just let me say that I am never going to San Diego again, for fear I won't return.<br /><br />My family lived in Long Beach after leaving the East Coast. My Dad's dream job, in the San Diego Shipyard, never opened up, so he took the same job at LBNS.<br /><br />Regards — CliffC R Kriegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10563658418464959198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-41421662457943407152012-05-07T15:16:02.904-05:002012-05-07T15:16:02.904-05:00A very interesting thread--Like Drill Sgt, I did s...A very interesting thread--Like Drill Sgt, I did spend time in Viet Nam--I have never suffered from after effects as far as I know, and yes, I continue to hunt.<br /><br />Combat is a brutal experience and I can only believe it effects men in different ways. To this day, I always have a mass said for the troopers I lost in viet nam. They were my brothers. <br /><br />I dont know where I am going with this, except to say, that men, subjected to brutalizing experiences will react in differnt ways. I only trust the support structures will be there for them.Roger J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12639676792043324100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43199931522205102512012-05-07T15:09:17.600-05:002012-05-07T15:09:17.600-05:00Tibore wrote: "Or in short, for the name chan...Tibore wrote: "Or in short, for the name change to be justified medically and scientifically."<br /><br />If only that were so. The American Psychological Association has no been much concerned with science for at least a decade. They awarded a lifetime achievement award to a former president who lost her license due to having a sexual relationship with a patient. Tip or the iceberg. I have not paid my dues to them in about 10 years.<br /><br />TreyTMinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221261635305430323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67555067315553882352012-05-07T15:07:01.196-05:002012-05-07T15:07:01.196-05:00Drill Sgt, I am assuming you were in Viet Nam, a b...Drill Sgt, I am assuming you were in Viet Nam, a big assumption, but if so, do you feel comfortable eating at Asian restaurants?<br /><br />And sorry about the PTSD, I am glad you are better. Thank you for protecting us pal.<br /><br />TreyTMinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221261635305430323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46140258840233803032012-05-07T14:53:38.593-05:002012-05-07T14:53:38.593-05:00As a vet from the same conflagration, I think &quo...As a vet from the same conflagration, I think "The Drill SGT" has nailed it. PTSD can result from otherwise normal reactions to stress. It can also be from intense or explosive trauma (which is "injury," no need to be redundant). <br /><br />I wonder how many other vets, like me, like The Drill SGT, also quit hunting upon return? Not sure what that says about me or any of us that did so. Don't care either.Aridoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18345930150667529742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46956215461824216142012-05-07T14:48:56.471-05:002012-05-07T14:48:56.471-05:00Under the ADAAA, it would clearly be an injury...Under the ADAAA, it would clearly be an injury...jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12887959822842694430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2304695625271567792012-05-07T14:48:24.906-05:002012-05-07T14:48:24.906-05:00I detest the assumption that all vets coming back ...I detest the assumption that all vets coming back from the Big Sand Box are messed up mentally..some are, some aren't. It infantilizes them.Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09055468613470143350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76472422718279361142012-05-07T14:34:59.689-05:002012-05-07T14:34:59.689-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.sakredkowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652250985982301492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39697627037019408702012-05-07T14:24:58.122-05:002012-05-07T14:24:58.122-05:00YAY! And we can change "malaria" to &quo...YAY! And we can change "malaria" to "ague" and everyone will feel so much better.<br />How about naming every type of sickness "malaise" so that no one gets upset?Anga2010https://www.blogger.com/profile/03065973927621559044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17645039564361475712012-05-07T13:49:27.565-05:002012-05-07T13:49:27.565-05:00What Bryan C. said -- with the caveat that some ch...What Bryan C. said -- with the caveat that some chronic conditions begin acutely. Concussion blasts and head injuries (closed and open) are certainly examples of that. <br /><br />That said, it doesn't require an actual injury of that type for symptoms of PTSD (as currently defined) to occur.<br /><br />While I certainly do not mean to denigrate the Drill Sgt's experiences and am not equating my experience with his in any way -- I experienced very similar symptoms from a close encounter with a small harmless snake. <br /><br />But that's why there's a stigma attached to PTSD -- it can happen as a result of such mundane events. At least it can if it's "diagnosed" as it is today. There are those who suggest that what both the Drill Sgt and I experienced is not clinically significant (ie, it didn't ruin our lives and we got over it without treatment), therefore unworthy of the diagnosis PTSD. <br /><br />http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/tag/ptsd/<br /><br />So I would definitely like to see PTSD classified in some way that notes the acute event(s) that trigger it. However, I have no reason to believe the writers of the DSM are capable of doing this in an intelligent, reasonable way. <br /><br />Where physical injury also occurs, I think it's likely that the "PTSD" that might result could be of a different nature and I am certain that it's more complicated.Donna B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16771075314473811594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90315754540450008662012-05-07T13:18:17.459-05:002012-05-07T13:18:17.459-05:00Should be "for it for political reasons"...Should be "for it for political reasons".edutcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15033144261502435196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56056165658622259812012-05-07T13:14:40.865-05:002012-05-07T13:14:40.865-05:00"Should "post-traumatic stress disorder&...<i>"Should "post-traumatic stress disorder" be renamed "post-traumatic stress injury"?"</i><br /><br />What matters is that the psychiatric field either agree to change the name based on the evidence that such a change is medically necessary, or stand put and not change it because the evidence indicates that it's unnecessary. Or in short, for the name change to be justified medically and scientifically. <br /><br />If the change is for political correctness or some non-medical reason, I'd hope the APA resists with all their ability. But that said, the article indicates that it's a change being proposed <i>within</i> the profession, and for reasons that can be examined and judged. To me, the fact that they're staying true and honest to their process is good enough. Because of that, I have faith that they'll reach an honest, good conclusion. The only requirement I would presume to impose is that they all stay true to the practice of being evidence based. Deviate from that, and they're no longer practicing medicine. Stay with that, and I'll still consider them trustworthy (within the concept of "Trust But Verify", of course... with medical claims, the process of being a rational skeptic - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_skepticism - is still a good idea).Tiborehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07360541843865827271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1433475273960421412012-05-07T13:10:00.588-05:002012-05-07T13:10:00.588-05:00Yes, but injury seems to be a pejorative as, being...Yes, but injury seems to be a pejorative as, being in the military injures you - so you shouldn't go.<br /><br />I can see the Lefties getting behind this one.<br /><br />And I will leave it to the vets here to say whether the Army Vice COS is for it political reasons.edutcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15033144261502435196noreply@blogger.com