tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post409353474777251609..comments2024-03-28T14:46:40.884-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Once kids enter middle school, parental help with homework can actually bring test scores down..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42338737939778691072014-04-25T02:56:57.219-05:002014-04-25T02:56:57.219-05:00It's true that poorly educated parents may mis...It's true that poorly educated parents may misguide kids. Such parents can take help from tutors either from their school or online.<br />http://classof1.com/online-tutoring/school-mathSamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15082892722006370651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55295663004101051682014-03-24T16:35:25.631-05:002014-03-24T16:35:25.631-05:00I have a Master's in engineering, can't al...I have a Master's in engineering, can't always help my HS kids with either math or science because they are sometimes teaching different stuff, many times different methods.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00159064831659071944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74095435371829702602014-03-24T13:18:47.978-05:002014-03-24T13:18:47.978-05:00i would guess that the problem with parents helpin...i would guess that the problem with parents helping is that the kids are very good at getting their parents to give them the answers and they never learn the material. Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17641405238124268413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-20315315361086203872014-03-24T12:50:30.317-05:002014-03-24T12:50:30.317-05:00The less involved parents were probably less invol...The less involved parents were probably less involved because their kids were doing well. Many of the more involved parents were probably involved because their kids had specific issues that they wanted addressed and knew that they would not be addressed by a teacher if the parent wasn't involved. The argument that parent involvement doesn't help probably applies to kids who do ok on their own or who do not have any special issues that need to be addressed. <br /><br />I agree with the comment about Catholic schools too. My kids went to Catholic school for grades k-8. The nuns are mostly gone (there was one nun still teaching at my sons' school), but at least you knew what the school's agenda was and you knew that a teacher who strayed from that agenda would be put back on course. Catholic schools can also deal with disciplinary issues more directly and quickly than a public school. In the public schools, your kids are at the mercy of their teachers' own personal agendas (my kids went to public high school in the Madison, WI area, so teachers did have their own personal agendas and impose them on students), the teachers' unions that prevent lousy teachers from being fired, and a school's fear that it will be sued if a student is disciplined. Oh yeah, and if you go to a public school in the Madison area, you will probably be ridiculed and discriminated against if you are open about being a practicing Catholic--it is PC in Madison to put down Catholics. carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18161943772504435936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66286055520238808212014-03-24T12:50:24.523-05:002014-03-24T12:50:24.523-05:00The less involved parents were probably less invol...The less involved parents were probably less involved because their kids were doing well. Many of the more involved parents were probably involved because their kids had specific issues that they wanted addressed and knew that they would not be addressed by a teacher if the parent wasn't involved. The argument that parent involvement doesn't help probably applies to kids who do ok on their own or who do not have any special issues that need to be addressed. <br /><br />I agree with the comment about Catholic schools too. My kids went to Catholic school for grades k-8. The nuns are mostly gone (there was one nun still teaching at my sons' school), but at least you knew what the school's agenda was and you knew that a teacher who strayed from that agenda would be put back on course. Catholic schools can also deal with disciplinary issues more directly and quickly than a public school. In the public schools, your kids are at the mercy of their teachers' own personal agendas (my kids went to public high school in the Madison, WI area, so teachers did have their own personal agendas and impose them on students), the teachers' unions that prevent lousy teachers from being fired, and a school's fear that it will be sued if a student is disciplined. Oh yeah, and if you go to a public school in the Madison area, you will probably be ridiculed and discriminated against if you are open about being a practicing Catholic--it is PC in Madison to put down Catholics. carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18161943772504435936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60915471430988348492014-03-24T10:21:00.688-05:002014-03-24T10:21:00.688-05:00You want to save your kids, send them to a Catholi...<i>You want to save your kids, send them to a Catholic school with strict nuns.<br /><br />LOL wut. Those days are long gone. Not even sure most the teachers are Catholic now.</i><br /><br />God is a Scandinavian Lutheran.<br /><br />But the Catholic Church has the right idea about how to run schools. Or did, anyway.Hagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05011701168912339784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77556170675072646182014-03-24T09:56:14.555-05:002014-03-24T09:56:14.555-05:00"I do. I went to another Common Core training..."I do. I went to another Common Core training last week. I was told (as a history teacher in a room full of history teachers) that content no longer mattered, and if I spent the whole year in the first five chapters that was OK. Instead, I was to teach skills. I was the only one who objected."<br /><br />I second what Birches wrote. Sounds like your administration is interpreting Common Core in the worst possible way. Hirsch has been advocating for a Common Core type approach since at least the 90's. His idea was heavy, heavy, heavy on content.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63134614441750384432014-03-24T09:20:21.942-05:002014-03-24T09:20:21.942-05:00@ Gahrie
That does sound appalling. But it's...@ Gahrie<br /><br />That does sound appalling. But it's all in the delivery. So you've got some lousy administrators who decided that content doesn't matter anymore, but I can't see how most academically minded schools could suddenly turn from content just because the standards don't focus on that anymore. Because Common Core. <br /><br />As has been discussed before on these boards, Ed Hirsch's Core Knowledge has been adopted by some schools because it is Common Core compatible. Core Knowledge is probably one of the most content rich, traditional curriculums out there (especially for history). If you want your kids to learn American history, you'll want them in a Core Knowledge school.<br /><br />I know there are a lot of problems with Common Core, but it has turned into a bit of a boogieman as the catch all for why schools are failing. We didn't send our child to the neighborhood school because they taught Everyday Math and "how to get along with each other" and "Water efficiency" instead of real learning. Instead, child goes to a traditional charter that teaches Saxon Math (very traditional), Core Knowledge, phonics, etc. One of the schools is Common Core compatible (the charter), one is not (the neighborhood school), so I have a hard time seeing how those standards are responsible for some of the boneheaded curriculum decisions teachers and administrators make. My kid is learning so much; has all the Presidents of the US memorized (only in 2nd grade). So that's where I'm coming from. Bircheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045640752795693223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84528556985697755632014-03-24T08:54:50.004-05:002014-03-24T08:54:50.004-05:00I don't think Common Core is nearly as bad as ...<i><br />I don't think Common Core is nearly as bad as it's made out to be</i><br /><br />I do. I went to another Common Core training last week. I was told (as a history teacher in a room full of history teachers) that content no longer mattered, and if I spent the whole year in the first five chapters that was OK. Instead, I was to teach skills. I was the only one who objected.<br /><br />At an earlier training last year, I was told that as a history teacher I shouldn't be grading punctuation, grammar or spelling, only content. Again I was the only one who complained. In fact the consultant talked to my principal who called me on the carpet for my poor attitude.Gahriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795449308207016641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51034949833723115232014-03-24T08:47:10.481-05:002014-03-24T08:47:10.481-05:00She had to be careful at parent conferences to avo...<i>She had to be careful at parent conferences to avoid telling parents that the kid wasn't applying him/her self to the class and homework. They would come to school the next day black and blue.</i><br /><br />Did they start doing the work?Gahriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795449308207016641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-92089479590395455592014-03-23T21:49:36.429-05:002014-03-23T21:49:36.429-05:00There is no justification for homework before high...There is no justification for homework before high school anyway. They're there 6 hours a day. I could teach algebra to a horse if I had him captive 6 hours a day, five days a week, ten years in a row.<br /><br />The only reason homework exists in the lower grades is either as bullshit busywork, or because the school is <i>actually teaching nothing</i> and needs the parents to teach what should be taught in the schools at home. I've seen both.Carl Phamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03472929788984056650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54022500954662596162014-03-23T20:42:44.593-05:002014-03-23T20:42:44.593-05:00You want to save your kids, send them to a Catholi...<i>You want to save your kids, send them to a Catholic school with strict nuns.</i><br /><br />LOL wut. Those days are long gone. Not even sure most the teachers are Catholic now.Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09055468613470143350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51454395015672518022014-03-23T20:24:37.660-05:002014-03-23T20:24:37.660-05:00"while the "involvement" of Indian ..."while the "involvement" of Indian and Asian parents is of the "can I have extra work for my child to do after he gets his regular homework done" variety. "<br /><br />My ex-wife was a teacher in the LA City school system in east LA. which was, and is, mostly Hispanic. She had to be careful at parent conferences to avoid telling parents that the kid wasn't applying him/her self to the class and homework. They would come to school the next day black and blue.<br /><br />Needless to say, that was a long time ago.<br /><br />She was a big supporter of public schools. After the divorce, the kids went to private school. She went back to teaching for a short time 25 years ago after a bank layoff. She said she was appalled at the changes and that, if she were to do it now, she would homeschool the kids.<br /><br />Teachers are now the bottom 20% of college students. A lot of the changes in things like math are the result of boredom by teachers who don't want to spend time with the kids. Multiplication tables were an early victim.Michael Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127450762129879267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85391907476102476282014-03-23T20:05:25.427-05:002014-03-23T20:05:25.427-05:00That math problem you linked to isn't really C...<i>That math problem you linked to isn't really Common Core math necessarily, it's Everyday Math, which is Common Core compatible. Schools can still teach regular math in the regular way and be Common Core compatible, but so many districts are looking for the "Next, Big Thing" so they go with the fancy, new stuff.</i><br /><br />@ Birches<br /><br />I don't care what you want to label it. Common Core. Everyday Math. Common Core compatible.<br /><br />It is absolute and utter bullshit.<br /> Math is difficult for many. But to make it so incredibly convoluted that it takes 15 steps to subtract three digit number from another is LUDICROUS.<br /><br />The math that most people, ordinary people use, has been proven to be adequate. for hundreds of years...thousands. Why the fuck do we need to make it so onerous and difficult that it turns off young children?<br /><br />If you want to cripple a generation or tow....teach them this bullshit.<br /><br />@ Freeman. There is nothing wrong with your mother or someone else proofreading your papers. HOWEVER ...to do so for your children WITHOUT telling them what they have done wrong... you might as be a spell-check and grammar-check robot. They learn NOTHING.<br /><br />You do your children NO good to correct/fix their mistakes without feedback as to why they made a mistake in the first place.Dust Bunny Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15115422951538885247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81971239516614699562014-03-23T20:01:19.000-05:002014-03-23T20:01:19.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dumb Plumberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03408633744790991855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54430470131781478372014-03-23T18:27:39.111-05:002014-03-23T18:27:39.111-05:00You want to save your kids, send them to a Catholi...You want to save your kids, send them to a Catholic school with strict nuns.Hagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05011701168912339784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23869727146894474402014-03-23T18:22:24.125-05:002014-03-23T18:22:24.125-05:00We went to an open math competition last week. We ...We went to an open math competition last week. We were the only people of Western European descent there. All parents were involved types. Indians and Asians seem less inclined to go around pretending that parents don't matter."<br /><br />Do the college tour and see all the foreign students, especially the Asian kids and you will realize how much parental involvement counts. <br /><br />My anecdotal experience: older daughter by my ex did the IB program in high school ( my pushing) but her mom wasn't as hands on so she wasn't tutored in the areas she was relatively weak at ( math) costing her the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school. Mind you this a girl who read Homer for fun in the 7th grade and got an 800 score twice on the verbal portion of her SAT but only got a 580 on the math portion. Finally my daughter realized that Dad wasn't wrong about everything and took my advice to go to a small woman's liberal arts college in Western Mass that was willing to take a chance on her instead of state school. With a lot of work, she had the gumption to take the hard courses in the areas she wasn't naturally talented at along with excellent professors she graduated with a double major: financial math and economics. What was an eye opener when I visited her was the number of Asian woman graduating with double majors in math and hard science. <br /><br />Younger daughter with current wife: hands on mom who spared no expense that younger daughter gets all of the help we could provide. Again like her sister a wiz on the verbal portion and so-so on the maths. Both have essentially the same IQ but the younger daughter with the extra help ( and determination on her part) took the ACT exam instead and got a score of 34 out of 36. She is of to an Ivy in the fall. When her mom and I started the odessy we thought USC was a reach school. In the end she choose only a certain number of schools that offered what she wants to major in and eve though she applied ED to the Ivy she was notified by all of the schools she applied to that she was accepted prior to or on about the same time she received her Ivy acceptance notice. Being involved with your kid and being realistic of your kid's abilities makes a world of difference. <br /><br />ARM invest as much of your time and resources that you can in your kids because at the end of the day that is the most you will have in life. Sure it isn't fair but you can't save the world but you can save your kids. cubanbobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746305669005611456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54559260618037359772014-03-23T18:07:33.658-05:002014-03-23T18:07:33.658-05:00You've got me there.You've got me there.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-70071094620423057772014-03-23T18:05:22.888-05:002014-03-23T18:05:22.888-05:00Public schools are hell for extremely intelligent ...Public schools <i>are</i> hell for extremely intelligent kids (and no fun for the merely intelligent ones either), if you lean into them to be "engaged" with a system calls in the cops on them if they are found with a dangerous weapon, such as nailclippers, or harmful drugs, such as "Midol."Hagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05011701168912339784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67627834828848745942014-03-23T17:50:37.590-05:002014-03-23T17:50:37.590-05:00Now I would agree that in the race for ever more i...Now I would agree that in the race for ever more impressive college applications, there is a small subset of students who are pushed inappropriately into more and more advanced study at the cost of not really mastering the fundamentals. That's a house of cards version of an education, I think, but it's a very small problem overall and likely to work itself out anyway.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19485904349307465802014-03-23T17:49:56.601-05:002014-03-23T17:49:56.601-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53575549546667122262014-03-23T17:45:31.725-05:002014-03-23T17:45:31.725-05:00The quick ones can float, but then, those are not ...<i>The quick ones can float, but then, those are not the ones you need to worry about. They will find ways to learn what they want to learn and get ahead with or without you.</i><br /><br />This makes school hell for extremely intelligent kids. It's also not true that they will usually go on to achieve all they could have without the guidance of older, wiser people (often parents.)Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10345962602365019032014-03-23T17:42:41.524-05:002014-03-23T17:42:41.524-05:00A friend told me about someone she knows whose col...<i>A friend told me about someone she knows whose college kid sends her papers to her mother to correct before she turns them in. What the hell?</i><br /><br />If the mom is good at proofreading, it would be foolish for the girl not to send them to her first. People used to ask me to read their papers all the time in college because they figured I could proofread them. If your parent is the best proofreader you know, send your papers to your parent.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83803096406476703422014-03-23T17:21:00.054-05:002014-03-23T17:21:00.054-05:00Oh, and today they both have Masters degrees - fro...Oh, and today they both have Masters degrees - from UCLA and Hogwarts de Santa Fe, no less!Hagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05011701168912339784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71488452576021156722014-03-23T17:19:31.412-05:002014-03-23T17:19:31.412-05:00Both of my sons decided they did not like their ma...Both of my sons decided they did not like their math classes, nor their teachers, so they just quit going to class. <br />I never knew and the Albuquerque Public School system apparently did not notice either, since I never heard about it until years later when the boys told me.<br />And I still do not understand how they could have passed through the system and graduated that way, but both did.Hagarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05011701168912339784noreply@blogger.com