tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post3423070621780426606..comments2024-03-19T05:34:51.425-05:00Comments on Althouse: "You know, much more of this and I’ll start to think that all the concern over rendition and waterboarding was just insincere electoral hooey."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27521751651476106422009-02-08T04:03:00.000-06:002009-02-08T04:03:00.000-06:00On the high seas, there is no law but internationa...<I>On the high seas, there is no law but international law. Remove it, and piracy is no crime.</I><BR/><BR/>That's quite wrong. Ships are covered by the laws of their home nation while in international waters. Even before there was such a thing as "international law", countries recognized acts of piracy against their ships as a crime.<BR/><BR/>The correct way to put it is that if there was no international law governing the seas, nations that can't be bothered to maintain a decent navy wouldn't have any grounds for harassing the United States into dealing with pirates on their behalf.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81881829951458389232009-02-07T20:44:00.000-06:002009-02-07T20:44:00.000-06:00There is no controlling or enforcing authority.Pir...<I>There is no controlling or enforcing authority.</I><BR/><BR/>Piracy - kind of like <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/op030797.htm" REL="nofollow">democratic fundraising</A>Ignorance is Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17351664545145783244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75526458445233574212009-02-07T13:49:00.000-06:002009-02-07T13:49:00.000-06:00FLS -- Your reasoning skills are very poor. I said...FLS -- Your reasoning skills are very poor. I said nothing about the goodness or badness of international law, or libertarianism (or piracy).<BR/><BR/>I merely pointed out that it is impossible to profess both a belief in international law and a belief in libertarianism.<BR/><BR/>My guess is that your inability to make proper inferences in your life has haunted you throughout your life far more than you know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76162792013701826022009-02-07T11:37:00.000-06:002009-02-07T11:37:00.000-06:00former law student --Phrased otherwise: "Treat oth...former law student --<BR/><BR/><I>Phrased otherwise: "Treat others as you would wish to be treated."</I><BR/><BR/>Uh, yes. When asked for help against pirates, do so, as you would wish help yourself. No laws needed. And, as we have seen recently, international "laws" aren't upheld by internationals, so they're not really laws, are they?<BR/><BR/>As for the pirates, snuff them, as they would do that for you.Oligonicellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17656818633822942314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39608476025707377652009-02-07T10:09:00.000-06:002009-02-07T10:09:00.000-06:00That's karmaPhrased otherwise: "Treat others as yo...<I>That's karma</I><BR/><BR/>Phrased otherwise: "Treat others as you would wish to be treated."former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-57403545406405566712009-02-07T01:14:00.000-06:002009-02-07T01:14:00.000-06:00And a poor interpretation of Karma to boot.And a poor interpretation of Karma to boot.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85770004253540966222009-02-07T00:42:00.000-06:002009-02-07T00:42:00.000-06:00That's not international law.That's karma.That's not international law.<BR/><BR/>That's karma.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17613608296767577782009-02-07T00:27:00.000-06:002009-02-07T00:27:00.000-06:00What *enforcing* mechanism does this "internationa...<I>What *enforcing* mechanism does this "international law" have? </I><BR/><BR/>What goes around, comes around.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50118431905986486932009-02-07T00:20:00.000-06:002009-02-07T00:20:00.000-06:00Absent law, might makes right. In that case, if yo...<I>Absent law, might makes right. In that case, if you can't keep pirates from taking your stuff, raping you, or killing you, don't come crying to the rest of us.</I><BR/><BR/>Well.. DUH.<BR/><BR/>And if I can't keep pirates from taking my stuff, raping and killing me... how will a *law* change that? <BR/><BR/>What *enforcing* mechanism does this "international law" have? Nothing. It has nothing. There is no controlling or enforcing authority.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91122186049786036832009-02-06T23:53:00.000-06:002009-02-06T23:53:00.000-06:00Obama said in his inaugural speech that we must &q...Obama said in his inaugural speech that we must "reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." That’s why "scrappleface" posted a satire entitled “War On Terror' Ends, Obama Starts 'Case Against Terror’ ”. Some of us don’t think this approach is a good one with respect to the “our safety” part. <BR/><BR/>But, now, "Meet The New Boss...."<BR/><BR/>It’s Orwellian. These guys have no shame. It's like the U.S. Communists after the Molotov-Rippentrop Pact in 1939, turning the propaganda machine on a dime!<BR/><BR/>From The Volokh Legal Blog;<BR/><BR/>"the Obama CIA's use of coercive techniques wouldn't be torture because we would never do that -- no matter the circumstances. It also wouldn't be 'enhanced interrogation' because that's what Bush did. It would simply be 'additional authority.'"<BR/><BR/>And the MSM will give Obama a pass, unlike with Bush where everything, hearsay, rumors, lies, was published.<BR/><BR/>Had lunch today with two professed Nader voters & several supposed McCain voters (though, judging from their having gleefully jumped on the anti-Palin bandwagon, I’m not certain that they did vote for McCain), patriots all. <BR/><BR/>Seems that all are now ecstatic since they feel that Obama has been shown himself to be a true patriot who will do whatever is necessary to stop the “ticking time bomb” & I was just a robotic Republican voter who did not see the need for change pretty much across the board, with the exception, of course when the safety of our nation was involved, where they knew that it would be America First despite campaign rhetoric. (Not sure how this unthought could be stretched to Nader, but nevermind.)<BR/><BR/>I said that gee, maybe any bad guy who is believed to have any info which would result in a big PR win for Obama was gonna have to put his hands over his private parts & hope that waterboarding & rendition was the worst that he’d face. <BR/><BR/>No one seemed to appreciate my wit. Go figure.<BR/><BR/>Why do I think that a Dem like Obama out of the Chicago ooze will be more concerned with appearance, and less concerned with “human rights” outcomes, than Bush? Maybe it’s because Liberals are always more concerned with the process than the outcome!From Inwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555545963289759013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2747409073394253332009-02-06T23:40:00.000-06:002009-02-06T23:40:00.000-06:00A pirate in international waters does not have to ...<I>A pirate in international waters does not have to have a law someplace stating that stealing stuff that doesn't belong to him is a crime before the right to defend life and property miraculously exists</I><BR/><BR/>Absent law, might makes right. In that case, if you can't keep pirates from taking your stuff, raping you, or killing you, don't come crying to the rest of us.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9847809438151103722009-02-06T23:25:00.000-06:002009-02-06T23:25:00.000-06:00On the high seas, there is no law but internationa...<I>On the high seas, there is no law but international law. Remove it, and piracy is no crime.</I><BR/><BR/>What is involved is NATURAL law, if anything. People, and nations too, have a right to self-defense even where laws do not exist. A pirate in international waters does not have to have a law someplace stating that stealing stuff that doesn't belong to him is a crime before the right to defend life and property miraculously exists, or for that matter, before the right to preventive action to protect life and property exists.<BR/><BR/>Now, why you seem to think that it's necessary to first *create* the crime of piracy by prohibiting it through law before anyone has the right to defend their lives, property, or act on behalf of others, might *maybe* explain the bizarre notion that we ought to treat terrorism and war as a criminal/judicial matter.<BR/><BR/>The spaces between nations are a different creature entirely.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16882141135408757182009-02-06T23:08:00.000-06:002009-02-06T23:08:00.000-06:00I don't believe in international law. It's illogic...<I>I don't believe in international law. It's illogical. It has no basis because there is no authority to base it upon. </I><BR/><BR/>As its name implies, international law is the law between nations. There is no overarching authority by definition. Yet nations have worked out laws in their independent interest to their mutual benefit. This process would seem to be libertarian if anything is.<BR/><BR/><I>*we* are not willing to have a hearing and execute them at sea... which we actually have a legal right to</I><BR/><BR/>On the high seas, there is no law but international law. Remove it, and piracy is no crime.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16943858412219508502009-02-06T22:29:00.000-06:002009-02-06T22:29:00.000-06:00A libertarian who believes in international law is...<I>A libertarian who believes in international law is not a libertarian.</I><BR/><BR/><I>Are you bankrolling the Somali pirates or something?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't believe in international law. It's illogical. It has no basis because there is no authority to base it upon. All it is, is someone or other deciding to pretend that the authority exists to scold other nations or worse, individuals who are citizens of nations. There may be reciprocal agreements but there is not *rule*.<BR/><BR/>What this has to do with Somali pirates, I don't know. Because there is no logical reason that anyone whatsoever can not do what they darn well please about the Somali pirates. There is no requirement for international law before action can be taken.<BR/><BR/>The reason we are *now* talking about actively capturing them is because we can send them to Kenya (?)... a country who will undoubtedly observe all their civil rights... because *we* are not willing to have a hearing and execute them at sea... which we actually have a legal right to, but that isn't because of some "international law" that says how we have to deal with them... it's our own rules.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47291692691452185142009-02-06T22:16:00.000-06:002009-02-06T22:16:00.000-06:00The policies of the President and the policies of ...<I>The policies of the President and the policies of the United States are one and the same.</I><BR/><BR/>I didn't like that thought the first time I heard it, when it was "L'etat, c'est moi."former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91516509791678854632009-02-06T22:15:00.000-06:002009-02-06T22:15:00.000-06:00A libertarian who believes in international law is...<I>A libertarian who believes in international law is not a libertarian.</I><BR/><BR/>Are you bankrolling the Somali pirates or something?former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49684650604721382932009-02-06T22:11:00.000-06:002009-02-06T22:11:00.000-06:00both of which were not the policy of the United St...<I>both of which were not the policy of the United States yet were used by the Bush administration</I><BR/><BR/>The policies of the President and the policies of the United States are one and the same. I think you mean that it wasn't the LAW of the United States.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58743357674851246092009-02-06T21:33:00.000-06:002009-02-06T21:33:00.000-06:00Well, clearly if the other nations promise not to ...Well, clearly if the other nations promise not to do anything then that's okay. <BR/><BR/>I mean it's not like foreign governments would lie.jayne_cobbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05872094348471192444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23295155210031504082009-02-06T21:12:00.000-06:002009-02-06T21:12:00.000-06:00And so the Left discovers nuance....And so the Left discovers nuance....Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12258486225193805658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-25262607631511411632009-02-06T20:34:00.000-06:002009-02-06T20:34:00.000-06:00this whole discussion doesn't really make a lot of...this whole discussion doesn't really make a lot of sense when you completely disregard the distinctions between rendition and extraordinary rendition, as well as the executive orders Obama has already signed to close CIA prisons and abandon any harsh interrogation tactics...both of which were not the policy of the United States yet were used by the Bush administration. But then again, that's the typical trope of conservatives: boil everything down until it is as simplistic as possible until we can trick ourselves into thinking our argument is valid.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16727823728241579132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9552663927262289782009-02-06T19:35:00.000-06:002009-02-06T19:35:00.000-06:00No rendition to black sites or foreign countries w...<I>No rendition to black sites or foreign countries who torture</I><BR/><BR/>Then apparently there will be no rendition since ALL countries torture. Only an ignorant fool would believe otherwise.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04450897654318345683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90258313177578606212009-02-06T19:11:00.000-06:002009-02-06T19:11:00.000-06:00Damon says. “He said, `If a guy knows where a dirt...<I>Damon says. “He said, `If a guy knows where a dirty bomb is hidden that’s going to go off in a Marriott, put me in a room with him and I’ll find out. But don’t codify that. Just let me break the law.’</I><BR/><BR/>Damon plays a hero on TV. He isn't actually one, nor a great predictor, as a megamillionaire. of what career modest-income gov't military or security agents will do with their jobs or pensions on the line.<BR/><BR/>One of the great buried events following 9/11 was the extraordinary meeting held of all the FBI people involved in counterterror, where they were assured that as long as they followed things by the book, that 9/11 failures would have no impact on jobs, reprimands, even promotions...as long as future investigations may show they missed things - but that they violated no law or FBI regulation.<BR/><BR/>That if it was so, failure would have no effect.<BR/><BR/>And the military is unfortunately the same, as commanders sent out troops on patrols where they knew they would be IED'd, ambushed, and had enemy that they knew , knew where and when ambushes would happen..but put "love of law", and their careers and pensions above deaths and maimings of soldiers under them.<BR/><BR/>The Colonel West example was told to all serving officers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Saved his troops lives from enemy, but destroyed his shining career...<BR/><BR/>And Matt? Far more interesting than Matt Damon defending "hero torturers" violating law to "save lives" and extolling their sacrifice of career, life savings, time in jail --would be him popping up at a latter date and defending the law-abiding bureaucrats that see their careers and "rule of law!!!" as more important than saving lives of soldiers in harms way or US citizens at home. Matt cheering "right on!" as some lawyer-bitch at FBI says she is due a promotion for accepting the deaths of thousands to stand up for terrorist rights and her own selfish CYA.Cedarfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00602418702398818596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-91445297233152187292009-02-06T18:43:00.001-06:002009-02-06T18:43:00.001-06:00Now that's the way to get a tag man.Now that's the way to get a tag man.Trooper Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978703998566102194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21830465174838093842009-02-06T18:43:00.000-06:002009-02-06T18:43:00.000-06:00Making Barbie the object of the metaphor was also ...Making Barbie the object of the metaphor was also interesting, given Obama's vacuousness.<BR/><BR/>He was very nicely packaged, though. All sparkly. And anatomically correct, except for the man boobs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-18173500994278578242009-02-06T18:40:00.000-06:002009-02-06T18:40:00.000-06:00Interesting that garage views the mere airing of i...Interesting that garage views the mere airing of inconvenient truths as mutilating his Barbie.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.com