tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post2331832611897741541..comments2024-03-29T09:34:03.357-05:00Comments on Althouse: "The vote to Leave amounts to an outpouring of fury against the 'establishment.' Everyone from Barack Obama to the heads of NATO and the IMF urged Britons to embrace the EU."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger250125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48048713161441978552016-06-26T23:22:40.806-05:002016-06-26T23:22:40.806-05:00I lived there for a while in the 00's and stil...I lived there for a while in the 00's and still have friends there.<br /><br />You definitely couldn't buy crackers there at the time. I don't care for the texture of raisinettes, so I don't shop for them.SweatBeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02927036039026338550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26379673952650328202016-06-26T20:48:25.652-05:002016-06-26T20:48:25.652-05:00Readers, I readily admit a lot of folks are better...Readers, I readily admit a lot of folks are better people than I am, tim in vermont probably one of them. <br /><br />Be that as it may … I do not see how pointing out that Hitler’s National Socialist German Workers’ Party in fact constituted a de facto socialist regime is an indication that I’m a Nazi or that I support Nazis.<br /><br />As with every other socialist regime, the means of production was controlled by a central governmental authority. <br /><br />Any who opposed Hitler, even from prominent families, were executed, as was the fate of Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, son of Carl Canaris, “a rich industrialist.” <br /><br /><i> Canaris was humiliated before witnesses and then executed on 9 April 1945, in the Flossenbürg concentration camp, just weeks before the end of the war. He was led to the gallows naked. </i><br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/gwnvump<br /><br />Not that any German factory owner ever joined any German resistance movement that we know of. They were apparently fine with taking over Jewish-owned industrial sites, accepting slave labor and all the rest. Sure, Hitler controlled their production but they were getting rich! Crony socialism. <br /><br />However, I believe the reason that so many prominent German industrialists were not penalized or received relatively light sentences during the post-war hearings and trials was probably a tacit understanding by the prosecutors that for them to have resisted would have meant their certain death.gracklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18138997480493469444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-75157243989500177942016-06-26T20:31:32.626-05:002016-06-26T20:31:32.626-05:00Ballboy looks like it put down the pipe today! Huz...Ballboy looks like it put down the pipe today! Huzzah!Jon Ericsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05548597217632737704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28232082193987356062016-06-26T18:35:16.619-05:002016-06-26T18:35:16.619-05:00Thanks for being honest, Tim. It happens to the be...Thanks for being honest, Tim. It happens to the best of us. <br /><br />Grackle, OTOH, won't even believe that an Israeli paramilitary organization engaged in terrorism when its not even controversial for Israelis to accept that. So at least you're an honest person interested in actual debate, wherever the chips may fall, unlike him. <br /><br />Be grateful for that. It makes you a much better person than he is. Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-10522600728887959642016-06-26T16:38:45.018-05:002016-06-26T16:38:45.018-05:00Ok. So you're all a bunch of Nazis, then. Or i...<i> Ok. So you're all a bunch of Nazis, then. Or is it just Nazi defenders? </i><br /><br />Is this what passes for debate on the Left? So sad, so trite, so MSM talking-pointy but kind of what I expected. Take note, readers.gracklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18138997480493469444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-76639491908278919152016-06-26T13:20:55.110-05:002016-06-26T13:20:55.110-05:00I apologize for that comment I deleted, R&B. I...I apologize for that comment I deleted, R&B. I didn't really believe it. tim in vermonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06547980465313241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71495908704976007062016-06-26T12:52:41.343-05:002016-06-26T12:52:41.343-05:00It's not xenophobia if your fears are founded ...It's not xenophobia if your fears are founded in truth.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11205752419540502278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59064845001911247922016-06-26T11:37:07.668-05:002016-06-26T11:37:07.668-05:00I realize you have a lot of trouble making basic a...I realize you have a lot of trouble making basic arguments, tim. But you don't need to project that shortcoming and all the insults it brings to your mind onto me. Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85878683428540072792016-06-26T10:19:13.338-05:002016-06-26T10:19:13.338-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.tim in vermonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06547980465313241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-11576844651983228122016-06-26T10:07:17.612-05:002016-06-26T10:07:17.612-05:00A government with with limited powers is less wort...<i>A government with with limited powers is less worth controlling.</i><br /><br />A person with less property is less worth stealing from.<br /><br />A person with less real estate is less worth vandalizing.<br /><br />A person not making much use of their life is too pitiful to kill. <br /><br />And so on. Go poverty and lifelessness!<br /><br /><i>I don't have an answer...</i><br /><br />No shit. You don't even have an argument, as that flimsy motto of yours above so clearly proves. Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85030314517344701082016-06-26T10:03:14.404-05:002016-06-26T10:03:14.404-05:00Ok. So you're all a bunch of Nazis, then. Or i...Ok. So you're all a bunch of Nazis, then. Or is it just Nazi defenders?<br /><br />That's good. And very uncommon. <br /><br />I'm glad that we've got Republicans like grackle, Rusty, Michael K, and maybe even tim in vermont, willing to stand up for the political movement with which they so naturally and thoroughly affiliate -- were it not for that pesky issue of directing the property and industrial capacity that REMAINED private, into war aims - as all involved parties to a conflict as disastrous and omnipresent as WWII had done. <br /><br />That's rare. I'm glad you're all here to do it.<br /><br />Nazi industrialists everywhere salute you. Stand up for your lords, young serfs!Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-81451450671381847452016-06-26T07:18:04.389-05:002016-06-26T07:18:04.389-05:00Italian nationalism got more extremist and fanatic...Italian nationalism got more extremist and fanatical after unification and the creation of the Italian state. "Italia irredenta" was still out there, Trieste and Trentino, and a great deal else that the nationalists insisted on having in spite of what the locals desired. This got Italy into a great deal of trouble, such as an expensive and unproductive colonial empire to deflect these urges and ultimately into WWI, for no good reason. buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369134902650235470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-8286116607090206272016-06-26T07:03:36.666-05:002016-06-26T07:03:36.666-05:00You are a rank fool to pretend that government is ...<i>You are a rank fool to pretend that government is what makes it possible for the wealthy to control the government. That's as dumb an argument as saying that slavery wouldn't exist if there won't so many darn Africans to enslave.</i> <br /><br />Finally! An argument!<br /><br />A government with with limited powers is less worth controlling. The more powerful the government, the more desirable it is to control it. This is your essential paradox. You think that by making the government strong, you make it able to do the people's will and to take on private interests that would subvert it. Experience shows us that this is not the case.<br /><br />You really want a powerful government in order to control the behavior of others. You have this fetish for dictating how other people live, even people in red states, for example, that you heartily despise. You seem to believe that if you just make the government powerful enough, it will be free of all of this corruption and able to do the will of the people. Nope. It just gets to buy bigger server farms to monitor our communications, to write more laws and regulations, which of course favor one and disfavor another, making it more and more imperative that powerful business interests get hold of the levers of government power. <br /><br />I don't have an answer, I would just like to slow the process. I think that it is inevitable that the government will be completely corrupted and our short time of liberty and enlightenment will come to a close. Look at the IRS and how it uses its near absolute power to punish opponents of the regime. It's just a symptom. 50 years ago people were horrified when Nixon only tried to do the same, now people make excuses for the IRS.<br /><br />A less powerful government is both more responsive to the desires of the people, and less intrusive into people's lives. You can't buy this argument because you *want* the government to be intrusive into people's lives. So instead you pretend that if you just control money from "corporations," government won't be corrupted.<br /><br />Well how do you control, for example, Tyson Chicken, who got shaken down by Hillary Clinton, who had them buy both sides of a large number of cattle trades, give Hillary the winners and kept the losers, meanwhile, and against the law, lost the records that would have proven her incredible luck in that market? We know, after winning six coin tosses in a row in Iowa, that Hilary is a very lucky person, but that beggars belief!<br /><br />Is there outrage? She is worshiped by the big government types! When she destroys the evidence of whom she met with as secretary of state, and deletes 30K emails, the standard for deletion being that if the name of the recipient was not on a list she approved, it could not be important. What do we get? Outrage? No, we get apologies for her behavior from types like yourself who claim that if whatever scandal goalie the president has appointed to head the "justice department" exercises "prosecutorial disgression" that laws must not have been broken. You have made the claim that us plebes cannot possibly understand the issues involved.<br /><br />Well, if your side shows itself unwilling to police the powers that you willingly hand over to the government, forgive me for preferring that they not have the powers in the first place. <br /><br /><br /><i>And of course, quoting fiction to make your case just proves how out of touch you are with basic reality</i><br /><br />Ideas and concepts are ideas and concepts. If you think that no concept from fiction can be applied to real-life analysis, I guess that is of a part with your belief that the dictionary is the final arbiter of what concepts can and cannot be discussed. We were discussing the use of language. Orwell was a master of language. I think his ideas on the subject carry weight.tim in vermonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06547980465313241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17412463079847206012016-06-26T04:38:32.422-05:002016-06-26T04:38:32.422-05:00In a fascist state, the interests of the State tru...<i> In a fascist state, the interests of the State trump (hah!) all. If it serves the state for you to have private property, the state will allow you to have private property. </i><br /><br />My version: <br /><br />In a <i>socialist</i> state, the interests of the State trump all. If it serves the state for you to have private property, the state will allow you to have private property.<br /><br />See how that works?gracklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18138997480493469444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17362038587020666322016-06-26T02:56:02.825-05:002016-06-26T02:56:02.825-05:00Blogger buwaya puti said...
Mussolini got converte...<i>Blogger buwaya puti said...<br />Mussolini got converted by the semi-insane meme of Italian nationalism, leftover from the 19th century, a religion for the anticlerical bourgeis.</i> <br />Mr. Puti, I am reluctant to blame national history for nationalism. Italy was an independent nation for decades when Mussolini designed fascism. If any European nation 'deserved' to become hyper-nationalist, that nation was Poland, not Italy (and not Germany). Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10473314957842705632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22932275024175680062016-06-26T01:25:37.305-05:002016-06-26T01:25:37.305-05:00"You may not be an "elite", Phil. B..."You may not be an "elite", Phil. But, you are not as smart as you think you are."<br /><br />AgreedPhil 314https://www.blogger.com/profile/04133300763922742206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73937946692074401702016-06-25T22:45:09.973-05:002016-06-25T22:45:09.973-05:00Mussolini got converted by the semi-insane meme of...Mussolini got converted by the semi-insane meme of Italian nationalism, leftover from the 19th century, a religion for the anticlerical bourgeis. D'Annunzio was its last and greatest high priest. Mussolini got into no more wars of expansion than the previous Liberal Italian governments, and in the end he probably got fewer Italians killed.buwayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369134902650235470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65266747246312715302016-06-25T22:28:27.380-05:002016-06-25T22:28:27.380-05:00In a fascist state, the interests of the State tru...In a fascist state, the interests of the State trump (hah!) all. If it serves the state for you to have private property, the state will allow you to have private property. <br />Mussolini started out as a communist internationalist. He is supposed to have come up with fascism from his experience as a labor leader. He found that the bonds of nation and social class were stronger than the abstract idea of a brotherhood of workers. On the other hand, Hitler got rid of trade unions because he felt they had been corrupted by Russian-style international socialism, and could never be completely loyal to the German state.<br />Lewis Wetzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200232293505119133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27068752623276473952016-06-25T21:59:13.384-05:002016-06-25T21:59:13.384-05:00"Hitler allowed lots of private ownership.&qu..."Hitler allowed lots of private ownership."<br /><br />Somebody doesn't know the definition of Fascism.<br /><br />We now call it "Crony Capitalism" but there is very little capitalism about it. It involves government picking winners and losers and "owners" seeking favor of bureaucrats, whether Nazi or Democrat, or if the truth be known, some Republicans.Michael Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18127450762129879267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-82799967970936356302016-06-25T21:30:37.743-05:002016-06-25T21:30:37.743-05:00Wealthier people would exploit everyone else with ...<i>Wealthier people would exploit everyone else with or without government. In fact, if there weren't a government, whoever had the most resources would just declare themselves the government.</i><br />You should take a poli-sci 101 course, R&B. Then you wouldn't be so ignorant. Probably.Lewis Wetzelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01200232293505119133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42886570585946217752016-06-25T20:51:49.283-05:002016-06-25T20:51:49.283-05:00Only a total fool who never took an intro Econ cou...<i> Only a total fool who never took an intro Econ course doesn't know that Hitler allowed lots of private ownership. </i><br /><br />Readers, what Hitler put in place was de facto socialism – socialism that had to be disguised under a neutral alternative terminology because the National Socialist German Workers’ Party during Hitler’s rise to power was in competition with the communist movement in Germany and thus had to invent phantom “differences” in order to seem to set it apart from the communists. Propaganda for the masses – nothing more. <br /><br />In reality the “owners” were simply caretakers for the Nazi state. To disobey Hitler’s authority would be to receive a visit from the SS and a one-way ticket for the “owners” and their families to the nearest death camp.<br /><br /><i> It's also a far cry from socialism. Let alone the abolition of private property. </i><br /><br />Socialism only requires that the <i>means of production</i> be controlled by the state, NOT the total “abolition of private property,” although certainly some more severe examples of socialism might do so in some instances. Subject citizens can be allowed to own homes, vehicles and other property, for instance, and still labor under a system of socialism.gracklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18138997480493469444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90247153500895652212016-06-25T20:50:25.218-05:002016-06-25T20:50:25.218-05:00So long as I get to call the Republicans in Congre...So long as I get to call the Republicans in Congress national socialists I'm cool.<br /><br />Beloved Commenter AReasonableManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14139261862363663232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-27492797552819757122016-06-25T20:49:32.492-05:002016-06-25T20:49:32.492-05:00Rhythm and Balls said...
This is not really owners... Rhythm and Balls said...<br />This is not really ownership.<br /><br />It's also a far cry from socialism. Let alone the abolition of private property.<br /><br />Of course Beyer, I.G. Farben and the Krupps etc. were all privately held companies, However there was only one customer, the state. Effectively amounting to the same thing.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29889714288920997392016-06-25T20:39:19.279-05:002016-06-25T20:39:19.279-05:00I think the job of the government is to do the con...I think the job of the government is to do the consent of the governed, and as long as there are more working folks than financiers and billionaires, the government should be focused more on the former's concerns than the financiers and billionaires.<br /><br />You are a rank fool to pretend that government is what makes it possible for the wealthy to control the government. That's as dumb an argument as saying that slavery wouldn't exist if there won't so many darn Africans to enslave. Wealthier people would exploit everyone else with or without government. In fact, if there weren't a government, whoever had the most resources would just declare themselves the government. Talk about being conservative. You'd have to be a dummy to deny that.<br /><br />And of course, quoting fiction to make your case just proves how out of touch you are with basic reality.Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059991118123693141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50945065287329182882016-06-25T20:11:07.424-05:002016-06-25T20:11:07.424-05:00Power and money. It's all about power and mon...Power and money. It's all about power and money. Doesn't matter whether you call yourself a capitalist or a socialist. Power and money.Bob Ellisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10446972838620138676noreply@blogger.com