tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post2072340551553024530..comments2024-03-19T01:52:00.810-05:00Comments on Althouse: The big week of Obamacare oral arguments begins with "the most boring jurisdictional stuff one can imagine."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23222925919735121992012-03-26T18:09:03.105-05:002012-03-26T18:09:03.105-05:00If it's a tax, what to call it? It is a '...If it's a tax, what to call it? It is a 'Life Tax', a tax on life itself. If you are alive, you might pay it. Whether you are 1 month old, or 105 years old. EVERY MONTH of your life, you MUST certify that you have the mandated "insurance" or you pay.<br />I guess it goes along with the Death Tax. Soon we will have a Tax-Tax... for no special reason.mregohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03248660792251011959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33153369255829660632012-03-26T16:29:12.885-05:002012-03-26T16:29:12.885-05:00We had to pass the bill to find out whether it is....<i>We had to pass the bill to find out whether it is.</i><br /><br />Yes, but once it was passed, we had to look at it to find out what it is, changing it's nature yet again.Scott Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02459388007426664813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-47927346830158956422012-03-26T16:23:10.940-05:002012-03-26T16:23:10.940-05:00It simultaneously is and isn't a tax.
It'...<i>It simultaneously is and isn't a tax.<br /><br />It's Schrödinger's Tax.</i><br /><br />We had to pass the bill to find out whether it is.Crunchy Froghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12817138913728820310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33620202153448116882012-03-26T16:22:30.320-05:002012-03-26T16:22:30.320-05:00Bender very clever but at some point in the tax ye...Bender very clever but at some point in the tax year presumably you would have to have proof of insurance. I rather doubt the companies would sell one day policies that expire at the stroke of midnight on the last day of the tax year. <br /><br />Besides if the individual isn't compelled for now to pay the penalty its neither a tax or a penalty which begs the question of it's constitutionality if the government is going to argue it's a tax or a penalty. Up to now payment of neither has never been optional so what the legal logic when it comes to defending this bill as either a tax or a penalty is something beyond the minds of the sane and sober.cubanbobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746305669005611456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60703002322105278932012-03-26T14:50:58.694-05:002012-03-26T14:50:58.694-05:00It simultaneously is and isn't a tax.
It'...It simultaneously is and isn't a tax.<br /><br />It's Schrödinger's Tax.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398730540934226860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16654415689983301052012-03-26T14:18:03.845-05:002012-03-26T14:18:03.845-05:00Yes, there was also the English East India Company...Yes, there was also the English East India Company flooding our markets with cheap tea, undercutting the price of the honest smuggled tea sold by upstanding colonial merchants<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Not tea. Molasses.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938263272237104128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-19843882437134347202012-03-26T14:01:03.671-05:002012-03-26T14:01:03.671-05:00JUSTICE ALITO: Sub-section A says directly, "...<i>JUSTICE ALITO: Sub-section A says directly, "an applicable individual shall ensure that the individual has the minimum essential coverage." And you are saying it doesn't really mean that, that if you're not subject to the penalty, you're not under the obligation to maintain the minimum essential coverage?<br /><br />GENERAL VERRILLI: That's correct.</i><br /><br />Is this a fatal concession?<br /><br />If the mandate applies only to those subject to the penalty, but the penalty applies only at then <i>end</i> of the tax year, at filing time, then there can be no "obligation to maintain the minimum essential coverage" at the <i>beginning</i> of that tax year.Benderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322135500288738561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80862085593531068262012-03-26T13:59:21.574-05:002012-03-26T13:59:21.574-05:00Re: Robert Cook:
That was hardly the only reason....Re: Robert Cook:<br /><br /><i>That was hardly the only reason</i>.<br /><br />Yes, there was also the English East India Company flooding our markets with cheap tea, undercutting the price of the honest smuggled tea sold by upstanding colonial merchants. <br /><br />And I guess there was something about taxation and representation in there somewhere too.Balfegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012196656096263507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-44330018728082120512012-03-26T13:58:17.515-05:002012-03-26T13:58:17.515-05:00Money extracted by the IRS kinda hints at a tax......Money extracted by the IRS kinda hints at a tax...<br />And all those new IRS hirees are really hoping Kagan brings the good.walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818749187960350810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32682729002430678052012-03-26T13:54:45.153-05:002012-03-26T13:54:45.153-05:00Tim- you are right as to lower income persons. I w...Tim- you are right as to lower income persons. I was trying to say the DEMS and ACLU oppose national ID etc and that will conflict with the mandate enforcement which asks everyone for more and more personal info including if they had health insurance coverage.I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-14886353570869118802012-03-26T13:46:11.329-05:002012-03-26T13:46:11.329-05:00Obamacare is a solution to a non-existent problem....Obamacare is a solution to a non-existent problem. Suppposedly it solves the problem of "free riders". But it is goverment which has created the free rider problem to begin with.<br /><br />Government mandates that hospitals MUST provide healh-care to all, regardless of their ability to pay.<br /><br />Government also encourages the existence of illegal aliens within the US, and they make up the majority of the "free rider" population.<br /><br />Government is badly distoring the healthcare marketplace. It now proposes to address the problems it has created by futher distoring the healthcare market rather than by correcting its current mistakes.<br /><br />In the absence of the two government policies listed above, the problem which Obamacare "solves" would vanish on its own.Qhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916566252965436234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3464634015874155192012-03-26T13:44:23.597-05:002012-03-26T13:44:23.597-05:00JUSTICE ALITO: General Verrilli, today you are arg...<i>JUSTICE ALITO: General Verrilli, today you are arguing that the penalty is not a tax. Tomorrow you are going to be back and you will be arguing that the penalty is a tax.<br />Has the Court ever held that something that is a tax for purposes of the taxing power under the Constitution is not a tax under the Anti-Injunction Act?<br /><br />GENERAL VERRILLI: No, Justice Alito</i> p.31<br /><br />Time to just sit the hell down.<br /><br />You would think that any person of any integrity would be ashamed to get up there and engage in such duplicitous games with the Court.Benderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09322135500288738561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63022557043443138042012-03-26T13:43:02.113-05:002012-03-26T13:43:02.113-05:00"The last time that Separation of Powers real..."<i>The last time that Separation of Powers really got interesting was when the left went after Bush for purportedly violating FISA.</i>"<br /><br />I thought that BHO's redefinition of "recess" was somewhat interesting, myself.<br /><br />And the same issue arises in that regard: what to do about it?<br /><br />Facially, it would seem that there's no recourse until someone is aggrieved by a decision of the NLRB, at which point they could sue to stay NLRB enforcement on the grounds that the Board hasn't been duly appointed.<br /><br />At least, if there is a more direct way that BHO's move could be addressed, I don't see any Senators taking it.bobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05541153566289316156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66800317820636138552012-03-26T13:30:54.489-05:002012-03-26T13:30:54.489-05:00A penalty is a tax on doing wrong.
A tax is a pen...A penalty is a tax on doing wrong.<br /><br />A tax is a penalty on doing well.WilliamChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07042433120388213077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71218392797920526742012-03-26T13:25:43.108-05:002012-03-26T13:25:43.108-05:00Hagar: would that they could, but I think Presiden...<i>Hagar: would that they could, but I think President Jackson said it best: Mr Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it--separation of powers is the best thing the founders did in our constitution.<br /></i><br /><i>Hagar--I am sure Bruce Hayden can correct me, and I am big fan of Bruce's analyses, but the only authority supreme court is a moral authority--the executive branch is on the hook to execute SCOTUS judgements as far as I know. But is an interesting question</i>.<br /><br />At one level, yes, all the Supreme Court has is its moral authority. The last time that Separation of Powers really got interesting was when the left went after Bush for purportedly violating FISA. And, there, it would have been hard to stop the Executive Branch through court action. The Judiciary could rant and rave as much as they wanted to, but there was little they could do to shut down the NSA, if the Executive Branch decided to play hardball, which they appeared to be willing to do. After all, the Judiciary is dependent upon the Executive Branch to enforce its will - those U.S. Marshals report indirectly to the President. And, the result, to some extent, was a stale mate. <br /><br />This, though, is different, because the court system would be required to enforce the law and make it work. If an insurance company refused to cover someone due to pre-existing conditions, the recourse of both the person denied coverage and the Executive branch would be through the court system. And, the court system, below the Supreme Court, is compelled to follow the dictates of the Supreme Court. Outside of maybe the 9th Circuit, the lower courts are not about to try to enforce a law that the Supreme Court has invalidated. Maybe a District Court judge or two, but they will get slapped down by the Circuit Courts (excluding, again, maybe the 9th Circuit, which gets slapped down a lot by the Supreme Court for ignoring their dictates). <br /><br />And, that doesn't even get into the Civil Rights and Due Process issues of the Executive trying to enforce a law declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Sure, AG Holder isn't going to arrest himself, or probably anyone below him, for this. BUT, that won't keep the courts from finding a civil rights violation from trying to enforce a law against people and companies that has been declared invalid by the Supreme Court. So, maybe they don't go to jail for this, but are bankrupted for it instead. And, what is Holder going to do then? Put a U.S. Marshal in every bank to keep the winning plaintiffs from enforcing their judgments? <br /><br />Which is to say that the court system in general, and the Supreme Court in particular, has a lot more actual power here than they did against the NSA under the Bush Administration. <br /><br />Sorry if I didn't quite answer the questions asked. I tried, but may not have understood them properly.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55451667037331593112012-03-26T13:20:50.047-05:002012-03-26T13:20:50.047-05:00"Of course, the DEMS don't want that beca...<i>"Of course, the DEMS don't want that because it would hurt the poor and illegals I assume. So,m this latest healthcare mandate will put the ACLU libs in a knot."</i><br /><br />No it won't. Less than half the workforce (let alone adults) pay income taxes. Those who pay will be required to provide an IRS Form XYZ proving health coverage.<br /><br />Those who don't pay income taxes (less than $9K Single/$19K Married, Filing Jointly) won't have to file, nor provide proof of insurance (notwithstanding the fact they would be eligible for highly subsidized coverage through the exchange).<br /><br />Illegals, of course, don't file income taxes, for obvious reasons.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08248882642756619950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51045847568004724552012-03-26T13:15:11.312-05:002012-03-26T13:15:11.312-05:00@bobby
What did I misinterpret?
My sister-in-law...@bobby<br /><br /><i>What did I misinterpret?</i><br /><br />My sister-in-law, an Obama supporter (fervently) acknowledges that direct billing would be cheaper than what we're doing know, both in terms of her costs of doing business and to her patients. Aside from this, she believes ACA, ie, Obamacare, is a disaster.Scott Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02459388007426664813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-26445005112775325732012-03-26T13:14:09.012-05:002012-03-26T13:14:09.012-05:00One of my favorite quotes: "Our adversarial s...One of my favorite quotes: "Our adversarial system is founded upon the curious premise that, out of the clash of lies, truth will emerge." One of the main reasons I am not a litigator.Mike Koeneckehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12223188025296940901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73719437771973319312012-03-26T13:08:50.770-05:002012-03-26T13:08:50.770-05:00DBQ:
Let's face it- with computers today- the...DBQ:<br /><br />Let's face it- with computers today- they could require insurers to send insurance rolls to a central processor who would manage a database of who and who was not insured in a particular year. I always thought they would have done that by now for car insurance so a cop could just swipe your magnetic card to see if your car insurance was in force. <br /><br />Of course, the DEMS don't want that because it would hurt the poor and illegals I assume. So,m this latest healthcare mandate will put the ACLU libs in a knot.I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22878183904603946172012-03-26T13:06:02.178-05:002012-03-26T13:06:02.178-05:00"And to think our Founding Fathers started a ...<i>"And to think our Founding Fathers started a war over a mere Stamp Act."</i><br /><br />That was hardly the only reason.Robert Cookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06951286299515983901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23805262863240795392012-03-26T13:04:52.467-05:002012-03-26T13:04:52.467-05:00"This country can do anything it wants to. It..."This country can do anything it wants to. It can easily provide a quality affordable health care system for everybody. It just doesn't want to."<br /><br /><br />Can you tell me how you would define "affordable"?I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65349527023322879312012-03-26T13:04:31.873-05:002012-03-26T13:04:31.873-05:00"If they can get enough providers covering en..."<i>If they can get enough providers covering enough services . . . the transition wouldn't even be noticeable to most people and may even end up being cheaper.<br /><br />Even the pediatrician, a die-hard feminist and supporter of BHO admits this and thinks ACA is a disaster for her chosen field.</i>"<br /><br />You lost me.<br /><br />Your points seem to be (a) docs could go back to direct billing with some organizational work, and it might even bring down costs, (i.e., this might work) and (b), it'll be a disaster (i.e., this'll never work.)<br /><br />What did I misinterpret?bobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05541153566289316156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74069702088514224772012-03-26T12:49:05.477-05:002012-03-26T12:49:05.477-05:00If the federal government mandates that a citizen ...If the federal government mandates that a citizen enter into a contract with a health insurance provider, doesn't that make the contract a coerced contract? And shouldn't that alone render Obamacare unlawful?ricpichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01321511130788764861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35188291969753350522012-03-26T12:45:53.007-05:002012-03-26T12:45:53.007-05:00They're fools, but greedy fools, so scruem. Wh...<i>They're fools, but greedy fools, so scruem. What's really going to happen is, BHO will set his minions into demanding that everything requested be covered, putting insurers' costs far above their premium income, and quickly bankrupting them.</i><br /><br />Speaking as one who has three doctors amongst the inlaws (one ER doc, one pediatrician, and one eye surgeon), all of which have been in private practice at one time or another, you're missing a step.<br /><br />It doesn't go straight from medical insurance failing to single-payer. That's the stuff of pixie dust and unicorns. All three docs have told me that they could go back to direct billing and do it with about 1/3 the staff they need to ride herd on dozens of different insurance company contracts. If they can get enough providers covering enough services (ie, the labs, radiology, etc) in the immediate area to do the same, the transition wouldn't even be noticeable to most people and may even end up being cheaper.<br /><br />Even the pediatrician, a die-hard feminist and supporter of BHO admits this and thinks ACA is a disaster for her chosen field.Scott Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02459388007426664813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84503291642503043082012-03-26T12:43:27.717-05:002012-03-26T12:43:27.717-05:00And to think our Founding Fathers started a war ov...And to think our Founding Fathers started a war over a mere Stamp Act.ErisGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09383064735664269791noreply@blogger.com