tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1868109408908434119..comments2024-03-19T00:44:18.309-05:00Comments on Althouse: The erstwhile novelist David Shields says that fiction "has never seemed less central to the culture’s sense of itself."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23985064538412280892010-03-20T19:54:19.423-05:002010-03-20T19:54:19.423-05:00Thanks, Synova!
I'm not the only one out ther...Thanks, Synova!<br /><br />I'm not the only one out there suggesting that our modern era is an echo of earlier eras.<br /><br />If you find the idea of a cyclical approach to history interesting, I highly advise <b><i>The Fourth Turning</i></b> by William Strauss and Neil Howe. While I think that they get a lot of things wrong, the things they get right have some really interesting implications for what's in our immediate future.The Scythianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10838229397619055117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36006578739198653462010-03-20T14:23:10.091-05:002010-03-20T14:23:10.091-05:00Sorry you were late to the party, Youngblood. Tha...Sorry you were late to the party, Youngblood. That was really cool.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-67273522968656989952010-03-19T18:41:09.272-05:002010-03-19T18:41:09.272-05:00Late to the party on this one (unfortunately), but...Late to the party on this one (unfortunately), but Shields' comment was about the shift from fiction to "reality-based art".<br /><br />We've been here before. Between the end of the 19th century and the end of World War II, "reality media" was king. Freak shows. Travelogues. Vaudeville travelogues. (When L. Frank Baum himself decided to adapt <b>The Wizard of Oz</b> into another medium, it was as a vaudeville travel presentation, not a fictional film.)<br /><br />The first modern tabloids appeared in the Teens and Twenties, focusing on true crime and the lives of celebrities -- the <b>New York Daily News</b>, the <b>New York Evening Graphic</b>, and the <b>New York Enquirer</b> (which has, in the years since, gone national!).<br /><br />Reality television was prefigured by reality <i>magazines</i> in the 1920's -- Bernarr Macfadden's <b>True Story</b>, <b>True Crime</b>, and <b>True Romance</b>, as well as their legions of imitators -- first-person narratives, often confessional, telling stories about <i>people</i>. <br /><br /><b>Time</b> was founded with a similar goal in mind -- relay the news of the day through the medium of <i>people</i> (and in its early days, <b>Time</b> was derided for this approach). <b>Time</b> bought the rights to the name <b>Life</b> and founded a magazine for you-are-there style photojournalism.<br /><br />Mash-up art? It existed in that time period, too. Collage and photomontages became valid art forms in the first quarter of the 20th century. Cubism, Futurism, Dadaism, and Surrealism were informed by the same aesthetics and philosophies. <br /><br />Motion picture photography allowed the cutting and splicing of frames to create different effects -- long shots cut abruptly to close ups to medium shots. Nearly <i>all</i> early experiments in film involved the "mash-up" philosophy.<br /><br />Hell, the Photoshop controversies of the early 21st century were prefigured by pasted-up "composographs" and tricky double exposures.<br /><br />It's possible to write a book on this subject, so I'll stop here. I'll only point out that we've been here before, and <i>more than once</i>. History isn't linear, it's cyclical. We have been here before and we have been where we're heading before, too.The Scythianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10838229397619055117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63895053521107476702010-03-19T08:19:37.241-05:002010-03-19T08:19:37.241-05:00Jeremy, you misunderstand me. I didn't say &qu...Jeremy, you misunderstand me. I didn't say "recycled content" I said "recycled thoughtfulness." It's not the stories that are stale, but the sentiments. It's not the politics that are annoying, but the sentimentality. <br /><br />Susan Stamberg by herself is enough to make anyone turn the dial. She does the art dreck.<br /><br />And it's broadcast media. For all NPR efforts, everything is a snippet. The written form is still where a good reporter can unpack a story in detail. I credit the New York Times for that.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30103011446500340222010-03-18T23:00:49.349-05:002010-03-18T23:00:49.349-05:00I am a former graduate student in English Literatu...I am a former graduate student in English Literature and find myself these days seldom reading fiction or anything long outside of work--lawyer. But on a recent week's holiday I read The Hot Kid by Elmore Leonard and then with trepidation Madame Bovary. It was fantastic, reminded me of the greatness of great, as in world class, literature; it put Leonard's novel completely away; and it reminded me as well how salutary it is at all times to have a magnificent novel on the go. But I haven't picked one up since I've been back.itzik basmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04819878847328122792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-83780562069829451072010-03-18T22:15:33.727-05:002010-03-18T22:15:33.727-05:00Henry - "I'm just not interested in snipp...Henry - "I'm just not interested in snippets of recycled thoughtfulness."<br /><br />That's how you describe NPR?<br /><br />I would venture to guess 80% of NPR's programming relates to original, not "recycled" information and reports and commentary focused on science, history, the environment, business, current events, trivia, language, etc., etc....and only 20% on the politics that drive the conservatives into a frenzy. And even there, they always offer both sides.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33295486388877781642010-03-18T22:03:26.252-05:002010-03-18T22:03:26.252-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-84968660923030861542010-03-18T22:02:22.415-05:002010-03-18T22:02:22.415-05:00As for NPR -- Well, I read the newspaper. If a sto...As for NPR -- Well, I read the newspaper. If a story is important I try to track down real background and analysis. The Internet is helpful. I'm just not interested in snippets of recycled thoughtfulness.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-59327964194285026552010-03-18T21:57:48.713-05:002010-03-18T21:57:48.713-05:00Jeremy - Hoot is for younger readers. It won a New...Jeremy - Hoot is for younger readers. It won a Newbery. But it's just as good for adults, which is why it makes good audio material for long drives.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-71124194362829953662010-03-18T21:55:05.783-05:002010-03-18T21:55:05.783-05:00Henry: "Reading it reminds me why I stopped l...Henry: "Reading it reminds me why I stopped listening to NPR."<br /><br />Oh, good heavens yes. <br /><br />Those...NPR people.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62662150020202443782010-03-18T21:53:15.651-05:002010-03-18T21:53:15.651-05:00How old are you people?
Based on the comments I&#...How old are you people?<br /><br />Based on the comments I'd put most of you in the 70-80 year old ballpark.<br /><br />Good lord...some of you are so full of yourselves I'd be careful not to explode.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16491233096027053502010-03-18T21:52:25.291-05:002010-03-18T21:52:25.291-05:00As for the actual article, I'm with Balfegor. ...As for the actual article, I'm with Balfegor. Its typical art-essay thoughtfulness, a smorgasbord of worry. Reading it reminds me why I stopped listening to NPR.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-12549181205166693322010-03-18T21:50:22.472-05:002010-03-18T21:50:22.472-05:00Henry, when you say "the kids," are they...Henry, when you say "the kids," are they in the 25-60 range?<br /><br />That would be Carl's demographic.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-90223176060736988272010-03-18T21:42:02.398-05:002010-03-18T21:42:02.398-05:00Carl Hiassen's Hoot is terrific -- one of the ...Carl Hiassen's Hoot is terrific -- one of the better of the books on CD we have used to get our kids through long car rides.<br /><br />@Blue@9 -- Just to be clear, it's Michael who mentions reading the Iliad to his kids. <br /><br />I've used many stories from the Odyssey as fodder for stories I make up for my kids, but that's a different story.<br /><br />The Iliad is really horrific. When I recently read the translation by Robert Fagles, there were nights I had to put it down, mid-slaughter to pick up at a later time.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14480329783749187372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-65230328945445021852010-03-18T21:06:12.578-05:002010-03-18T21:06:12.578-05:00* Anything by Bruen, Larsson, Mankell
* Crais
...* Anything by Bruen, Larsson, Mankell<br /> * Crais<br /> * Leonard<br /> * Thompson<br /> * Rand<br /> * Silva<br /> * Fossum<br /> * Vachss<br /> * Burke<br /> * HiassenJeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53899775521328594932010-03-18T21:02:52.726-05:002010-03-18T21:02:52.726-05:00You're reading the wrong fiction.You're reading the wrong fiction.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569643253261527506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21684765828305839292010-03-18T20:41:24.378-05:002010-03-18T20:41:24.378-05:00I'm drawn to nonfiction because wisdom is elus...I'm drawn to nonfiction because wisdom is elusive enough without confusing my mind with cause and effects impossible in real life. Fiction is entertaining, but I fear mixing it up with fact and then arriving at false conclusions subconsciously informed by a story impossible in real life. Kind of like when you can't remember if something really happened or it was a dream you had. Mostly, I just don't have enough time for fiction, though I wish I did. There is just so much real stuff to learn and life is so short.bagoh20https://www.blogger.com/profile/10915174575358413637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21741064563095928072010-03-18T20:35:09.614-05:002010-03-18T20:35:09.614-05:00I have not been reading much fiction these days. I...I have not been reading much fiction these days. I prefer the short snippets of autobiography many people post on the internets such as <a href="http://trooperyork.blogspot.com/search/label/Laura%20Bush%27s%20Diary" rel="nofollow"> Laura Bush's Diary.</a>Trooper Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978703998566102194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89567483747998652132010-03-18T20:16:45.443-05:002010-03-18T20:16:45.443-05:00Wait, he's a plagiarist?
Jerk. Now I don'...Wait, he's a plagiarist? <br /><br />Jerk. Now I don't care what he thinks about anything.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01413541711301513897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-80491021860598120862010-03-18T20:13:57.749-05:002010-03-18T20:13:57.749-05:00"why Althouse would do such a thing as purpos..."<i>why Althouse would do such a thing as purposely post a headline that totally misstates the gist of its content.</i>"<br /><br />Because it was a thought provoking quote by the unrepentant plagiarist David Shields?Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-15717689491116599672010-03-18T20:11:40.015-05:002010-03-18T20:11:40.015-05:00I just think that it's a lot of fuss about not...I just think that it's a lot of fuss about nothing. I write slowly... the other day I wrote about 2000 words of fiction and I think they were mostly the right words and mostly in the right order. In any case I'm pretty immersed in the creative aspects of fiction. Not just the internet but the fiction market itself builds on itself even if a whole lot seems derivative. It's not stagnant, even if it's yet another paranormal romance... it moves.<br /><br />The idea that we've lost the taste for fiction or anything with length or depth doesn't at all go with my own experience as a consumer of fiction either. There are not fewer novels published now, but vastly more, and they are longer than ever before.<br /><br />Harry Potter was 7 volumes.<br /><br />How many installments of Twilight?<br /><br />On my "buy on payday" list I've got one mystery that might be part of a larger series, the first two books of a four volume YA thriller, and a three book series by Sarah Hoyt. ("Indiana Jones collides with Georgette Heyer." With dragons!)<br /><br />Like anything, the audience likes to know what it's getting, so more of the same, sells. Readers also like to become immersed in the world and involved with the characters. Genre literature is dominated by series set in the same place with the same characters. Even romance.<br /><br />Reading fiction requires time. For a whole lot of years I wasn't able to sit down with a book and read it through like I did in high school and college, so for a whole lot of years I didn't read anything new. I just reread novels I'd read before.<br /><br />And movies are getting longer.<br /><br />The article points out how the computer enables things like tweeting and enables people to find what they want to find quickly instead of slogging through tomes of information they aren't looking for... but I don't think any of it means what they think it means.<br /><br />How long, for example, have the MMORPGers on Althouse been working on developing a single character? <br /><br />Even our games span years.<br /><br />For that matter, for how many years have we been having this conversation at Althouse blog?Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21257063317451126482010-03-18T20:01:37.666-05:002010-03-18T20:01:37.666-05:00To those of you who say that you read this article...To those of you who say that you read this article and were not interested in it. OK, I can understand that. I often start reading things that I determine have no meaning to me, and so I move on, either after I finish, and oftentimes, much before I finish.<br /><br />Even so, I must say that I am surprised that not one of you, readers of the article and non-readers of the article, have commented about why Althouse would do such a thing as purposely post a headline that totally misstates the gist of its content.<br /><br />Should I assume that you don't care about that either?Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02094488084214911115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9950843624974439332010-03-18T19:42:44.179-05:002010-03-18T19:42:44.179-05:00Synova, while your point is well taken that we oft...Synova, while your point is well taken that we often stand on the shoulders of those who went before when creating anything, I hope that wouldn't discount certain periods resulting in seismic shifts in our culture, and really, in how we come "to think and do" in that changed context. Think agriculture age vs industrial age vs the present internet age.Pennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02094488084214911115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-51776022880070390302010-03-18T19:32:56.739-05:002010-03-18T19:32:56.739-05:00I think my post is clear that the article is about...I think my post is clear that the article is about something else. I pulled the part that interested me and made me want to say something. I acknowledge that what I did is an example of what the rest of the article is fretting about. But I'm not fretting.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64116931701882744792010-03-18T19:25:52.339-05:002010-03-18T19:25:52.339-05:00As for the vast meandering contemplation of one pu...As for the vast meandering contemplation of one published work after another suggesting that the internet is going to break us down into ever smaller pieces... <br /><br />I'm reminded of the classic film Zoolander when Owen Wilson's character takes out his teeny-tiny cell phone. <br /><br />Also... a book length book to say nothing much more than "people's attention spans are too short to support anything longer than a tweet" is sort of... self disproving.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.com