tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post149780082499186100..comments2024-03-28T15:13:26.906-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Mullah Baradar has been in Pakistani custody for several days, with US and Pakistani intelligence officials both taking part in interrogations..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger122125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7264069921883434852010-02-17T10:26:28.342-06:002010-02-17T10:26:28.342-06:00Man-caused confessions?Man-caused confessions?FreddyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03192274419047658485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29470411422849096012010-02-16T23:16:19.818-06:002010-02-16T23:16:19.818-06:00The Excitable Andrew---or one of his underbloggers...The Excitable Andrew---or one of his underbloggers---has this to say about how the Pakistanis "clamped down" on Baradar:<br /><br /><i>"Amazing what can happen when you have a foreign policy that includes diplomacy and force and sophistication."</i><br /><br />Clamped down! Yeehaa!<br /><br />http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/02/cutting-out-the-middle-man.htmlColorado Wellingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09684045373681716348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42591622012210570902010-02-16T23:04:58.490-06:002010-02-16T23:04:58.490-06:00'red is positive, black is negative, and make ...'red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet...'richard mcenroehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659450906647134430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-49922033182115131712010-02-16T22:00:59.110-06:002010-02-16T22:00:59.110-06:00:-P
Sorry. I'll try to do better.:-P<br /><br />Sorry. I'll try to do better.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72391265756651513542010-02-16T21:34:45.392-06:002010-02-16T21:34:45.392-06:00@Synova- You fool! You keep on writing those thoug...@Synova- You fool! You keep on writing those thoughtful and insightful and reasonable comments... You're taking all the fun out of it, you know! Kinda hard to follow up something like that with a fantastical trollish tirade. Jeesh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24215672991356335942010-02-16T21:33:30.441-06:002010-02-16T21:33:30.441-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22868895035470373672010-02-16T21:20:33.243-06:002010-02-16T21:20:33.243-06:00"I remember one of the reasons proudly given ..."<i>I remember one of the reasons proudly given for going to Iraq was the existence of those horrific torture rooms run by Saddam. Haven't heard that one in a while. Now they just have new owners.</i>"<br /><br />I know who I'd rather be prisoner of.<br /><br />In a heartbeat.<br /><br />I honestly think that (some) liberals have a severe inability to empathize and are cognitively handicapped in abstract reasoning and matters requiring imagination.<br /><br />Because they can say utterly moronic things like *anyone* has just taken over Saddam's torture rooms.<br /><br />I mean... a person can point out, again, the sorts of things found in Iraq when we got there and it just doesn't penetrate. Entire prisons to hold children in Kurdistan (now a memorial museum), the mass graves full of women and children, hundreds upon hundreds dug from the ground, the building at Abu Ghraib that was so blood soaked that it couldn't be rehabilitated for our use due to the trauma involved to our soldiers who'd have had to clean it... and it means utterly nothing.<br /><br />It's not real. The people aren't real.<br /><br />But it just sounds so *good* to say some fatuous idiocy like Saddam's torture rooms having new owners. Because when you say stuff like that you're brave and willing to speak hard truths.<br /><br />Yay, you!Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43243033848264771282010-02-16T21:15:29.302-06:002010-02-16T21:15:29.302-06:00Hm! So doubtless, by the exalted standards put for...Hm! So doubtless, by the exalted standards put forth by our liberal and leftist friends in the years 2003-2008, it is now legitimate to demand that Mr. Obama be impeached and everyone who was ever a member of the Obama administration now be put on trial for "war crimes"? o_O<br /><br />And we doubtless can expect all out liberal friends to be in the very forefront of demanding these things happen if they are *not* hypocrites? I mean, who among us would *not* expect Richard Durbin to denounce Mr. Obama now every bit as vehemently as he had previously denounced President Bush were Mr. Durbin at all opposed to torture? O_o<br /><br />Very well. Let it never be said I do not accommodate and assist our Democrat friends. ^_^<br /><br />[Picks up megaphone].<br /><br />Altogether, everyone! OBAMA LIED, PEOPLE DIED! OBAMA LIED, PEOPLE DIED! ^_~Towering Barbarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637788763868339070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-43776783287600640282010-02-16T21:10:51.894-06:002010-02-16T21:10:51.894-06:00Me: The problem, Julius, is that some people want ...Me: The problem, Julius, is that some people want to call anything coercive or unpleasant, anything traumatic or frightening, torture. So we *can't* talk about it.<br /><br />"<i>So the leaders of our country can fight two wars as well dealing with the general threat of terrorism in places all over the world, but they are cowered by language?</i>"<br /><br />Yeah. <br /><br />It goes like this. Torture is, always no matter what, very bad, no good, evil and horrible.<br /><br />We all agree.<br /><br />All of us.<br /><br />So someone tries to start a conversation... what should we do, what is appropriate, what is legal, what is useful and effective, how much is too much... and it's impossible to have that conversation because *everything* short of a teddy bear and down comforter is "torture." Being wrapped in an Israeli flag is torture. Humiliation is torture. Being lied to about what will be done to you is torture. Being shown pornography or having fake menstrual blood wiped on your face is torture. Being restrained, being shackled, being made uncomfortable... anything coercive is torture. So of course, being made to think that you're drowning when you're really not is absolutely torture.<br /><br />So what had you suggested, that we just go ahead and say, "Hey, we're going to torture this guy. We need to decide what sorts of torture we're going to do and what sorts of torture we're not going to do." Is that it?<br /><br />It's BS. That conversation could have happened at any time and the reason it didn't happen isn't because people who favor coercive interrogations weren't willing to talk about it.Synovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01311191981918160095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29561065849552919762010-02-16T20:02:48.435-06:002010-02-16T20:02:48.435-06:00Maybe we can spike him up with stimulants and cut ...Maybe we can spike him up with stimulants and cut him open – slowly – while we force him to watch the start of his own disembowelment. Then maybe we can have a couple of good Christian soldiers rape and murder his family while he watches, slowly dying. When his family is dead, and before he is, we can gorge out his eyes and cut out his tongue. Why not cut off his penis too and stuff it in his mouth now that there's room for it? Then, after all that, we can shoot him in the head.<br />Julius, I like your thinking. Sometimes the sadist is right.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423662895798337741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48782940500647766662010-02-16T19:48:24.543-06:002010-02-16T19:48:24.543-06:00Half rendition, half lies.
Remember all that &quo...Half rendition, half lies.<br /><br />Remember all that "fierce moral urgency" that required Obama to remove the stink of Bush? Remember when the NY Times Gail Collins had a temper tantrum wondering why Obama couldn't just "take over" after November, instead of waiting until January?<br /><br />I remember. I forget nothing.Patmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17884455503379229264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-79826861498486129512010-02-16T19:25:35.706-06:002010-02-16T19:25:35.706-06:00Well gosh, if the Pakistanis aren't torturing ...Well gosh, if the Pakistanis aren't torturing him, I'd be willing to.mbecker908https://www.blogger.com/profile/10984583167198134221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58635409581805031612010-02-16T19:25:00.607-06:002010-02-16T19:25:00.607-06:00He will only be truly tortured when he is forced t...He will only be truly tortured when he is forced to read Andrew Sullivan.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02287739393915515645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-28995030543550006952010-02-16T19:02:40.960-06:002010-02-16T19:02:40.960-06:00I'm sure the Paki's wouldn't torture h...I'm sure the Paki's wouldn't torture him. Joe Biden says its not effective, so they wouldn't have any use for it.Shotshellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16569513833185525576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-22910842200113562752010-02-16T18:56:21.481-06:002010-02-16T18:56:21.481-06:00The US can't interrogate him!!
The FBI team t...The US can't interrogate him!!<br /><br />The FBI team to do that does not exist.<br /><br />Obama said that only the FBI High Value Interrogation Team can do that sort of thing in early 2009. Almost nothing has been done to create such a team.<br /><br />Until the FBI HVIT exists the US will just have to have other countries interrogate for us.<br /><br />You can thank Obama. It realy is his fault this time.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13304080307482107890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-376397402103647652010-02-16T18:29:02.363-06:002010-02-16T18:29:02.363-06:00Orb. ...That is a great comment. The One is turnin...Orb. ...That is a great comment. The One is turning out to be the None when a decision needs to be made that is not a decision to think about it until it goes away. Did we ever grant him tenure???traditionalguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05706120413005530014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64081780552246880832010-02-16T18:24:41.097-06:002010-02-16T18:24:41.097-06:00The Taliban has been hiding in broad daylight in K...The Taliban has been hiding in broad daylight in Karachi since its inception. Including Mullah Baradar, their supposed leader, arrested for jaywalking. <br /><br />Sounds more like a negotiated set up, rather than daring agents executing a capture. Because if they really wanted to smash the Taliban, they would snatch all the upper echelon right off the Karachi streets. <br /><br />Bring me the head of Osama bin Laden, and Mullah Omar - then I'll be a believer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-63621245951324982892010-02-16T18:24:28.657-06:002010-02-16T18:24:28.657-06:00In any country East of the Bosphorous
with the exc...In any country East of the Bosphorous<br />with the exception of Israel<br />anyone arrested for anything can expect to be tortured.Allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04188695437268298621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4536458747044630042010-02-16T18:08:09.054-06:002010-02-16T18:08:09.054-06:00Quite frankly I don't care if the Pakistanis o...Quite frankly I don't care if the Pakistanis or CIA interrogate this scumbag. The interrogation would undoubtedly be more physically "pain free" if done at GITMO.<br /><br />Just goes to show you that so long as Obama can vote PRESENT he will. He just wants to cover his ass and not assume the responsibility of CIC.orbicularioculihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04245001772815165670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-55539737401001526512010-02-16T17:51:38.619-06:002010-02-16T17:51:38.619-06:00We could just politely ask him some questions and ...We could just politely ask him some questions and if he refuses to answer release him....<br /><br />and then promptly blow him up with a missle from the circling drone.<br /><br />That would be ok wouldn't it.Phil 314https://www.blogger.com/profile/04133300763922742206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68812672063296183732010-02-16T17:49:32.538-06:002010-02-16T17:49:32.538-06:00No, and I'm real happy where I'm at on the...<i>No, and I'm real happy where I'm at on the issue of torture</i>.<br /><br />I'm sure you are. But where you're at is morally untenable if you think Cheney is a war criminal for having CIA agents waterboard KSM, but Obama having CIA agents stand by while Pakistan tortures Baradar is hunky-dory.<br /><br />I, for one, would very much prefer to be waterboarded by the CIA than "interrogated" by the ISI and I suspect you would, too. The notion that we're advancing human rights by outsourcing this to Pakistan is the furthest thing from the truth.Automatic_Wing https://www.blogger.com/profile/10174899673368042634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39883448270634667262010-02-16T17:18:37.122-06:002010-02-16T17:18:37.122-06:00Is it the location of the CIA facility in Poland t...<i>Is it the location of the CIA facility in Poland that you disagree with?<br /></i> <br /><br /><br /><br />It seems to be up in the air where the first episode of waterboarding took place, yes.<br /><br /><br /><i>I don't think the term is usually used for a government's facilities in its own country.</i> <br /><br /><br />I don't know how it is usually used. I'm just pointing out that these sites, whatever we want to call them, operate under the juristiction and with the knowledge and consent of the country in which they are located. It's not correct to suggest, as some people do, that these sites are under US government control. Indeed, the entire reason for these sites to exist as they do (or did) is precisely because <b>they escape the definition of being under US government control</b>. This is important in the context of some recent US Supreme Court rulings.<br /><br /><br /><br /><i>But the problem I have is the degree of control we are exerting over his treatment. Right now, it seems from news reports as though we're being extremely hands off and letting the Pakistanis handle the interrogation, so we can pretend it's not our business.</i> <br /> <br /> <br /><br /><br />Yes, I'd also like to see us stop pretending to be uninvolved. The proper scenario here would be to bring him to the US and waterboard him if neccessary here. That would assme that that the American political and legal debate on this issue is not completely politicized though.flenserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05864178703173384289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-89662404235262389862010-02-16T17:11:49.244-06:002010-02-16T17:11:49.244-06:00and we haven't even gotten close to them yet. ...<i>and we haven't even gotten close to them yet. This is one of the most lawyered and measured wars I've seen or read of...it's nothing like WWII or the War(s) in Algeria or Indochina</i>.<br /><br />People do, for various reasons, see a moral difference between what you do to people who are entirely within your power and people who kind of aren't. Thus, it's still a "good" war if we and our allies incinerate hundreds of thousands of civilians (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc. etc. etc.), all of them utterly unable to escape the doom that awaits them, but considered bad or evil if we shoot a man in our custody without the formality of a military tribal. I can see the reason for the distinction, but I think some people take it to an absolutely ludicrous extreme. At the most basic level, you are causing suffering and/or death in either case, and when the one "good" case occasions devastation so much more comprehensive, with victims so much more numerous, and their suffering so much more terrible, it is difficult to see why those extraneous contextual factors should render the violence against a single man automatically evil, while excusing the violence against so many. You (we) intend the violence in either case, after all.Balfegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012196656096263507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38413211876518989742010-02-16T17:10:42.563-06:002010-02-16T17:10:42.563-06:00SMG, sure it's happened to Israel...they aggre...<i>SMG, sure it's happened to Israel...they aggressively interrogate and now it's a Fascist Police State...oh wait, my bad....</i><br /><br />Israel is a small country surrounded by enemies out to destroy it.<br /><br />We're not threatened to such a degree by this Baradar fellow. Threatened? Yes. Existential threats? No.<br /><br />As I said, exigent circumstances, yes. If not, nope.Steve M. Galbraithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01728237625873443198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-6095199608126133252010-02-16T17:02:24.562-06:002010-02-16T17:02:24.562-06:00you have to do morally questionable acts. But ther...<i>you have to do morally questionable acts. But there are limits.<br /></i> and we haven't even gotten close to them yet. This is one of the most lawyered and measured wars I've seen or read of...it's nothing like WWII or the War(s) in Algeria or Indochina.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13846399206688807076noreply@blogger.com