tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post1373102718798937634..comments2024-03-28T16:08:15.331-05:00Comments on Althouse: "Normally it is customary around here to denounce fellow bloggers for Untoward Noticing of The Greenwald..."Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61690645734200845842007-06-21T16:33:00.000-05:002007-06-21T16:33:00.000-05:00How would you ever know in advance? It's a bogus q...How would you ever know in advance? It's a bogus question. It's like asking where I'd fly if I could fly.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-2724330531661255432007-06-21T15:27:00.000-05:002007-06-21T15:27:00.000-05:00Is the question- would you allow waterboarding of ...<I>Is the question- would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if <B>(you knew)</B> the information gained would save your life, your family, your city...[emp added]</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, thats the question. I don't understand why you need to add disqualifiers to it. A simple yes or no will do.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61568322505535520012007-06-20T15:50:00.000-05:002007-06-20T15:50:00.000-05:00Mindsteps: I just thought Althouse was oddly soft...Mindsteps: I just thought Althouse was oddly soft on Ace's post because Ace was on Instapundit's side. Or maybe she didn't wanna start a fight with Ace. I dunno. I'm more bothered with Instapundit's handling of that post. <BR/><BR/>To be clear, I don't consider Althouse part of the hyperpartisan blogosphere that has become so tiring and lame. This is a culture blog that I read because Althouse has interesting takes and can write well. I'm not being herded into a political movement by a propagandist here. I have no idea which candidate Althouse will vote for next election. <BR/><BR/>The demonization of Althouse by half of that political blogosphere is one example of how pathetic it has become. <BR/><BR/>As for Instapundit, if more political blogs were like his things would be closer to living up to the potential of the blogosphere. I don't find him mean, he engages with people of all persuasions with an open mind if they're in good faith, and he's not a lock-step conformist. It's a lot of the other political bloggers who need to be knocked off their perches. I'm glad that Althouse has a talent for winding many of the worst ones up (see: the onion rings thing). Althouse is one of the good bloggers. But yeah I do think she should've gone after Ace more. Whatever.LoafingOafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398399168775034527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-7957432847970222912007-06-20T06:20:00.000-05:002007-06-20T06:20:00.000-05:00Revenant said... Maybe you should work on developi...Revenant said... <BR/><BR/>Maybe you should work on developing those personality traits yourself, *then* worry about whether or not other people possess them.<BR/><BR/>Bingo, Revenant. Absolutely outstanding response to my series of posts....and I am not being sarcastic here. I believe your point is, before you pick others apart, first assess yourself. You know, people in glass houses.....<BR/><BR/>I agree completely. When I watch and listen to politicians and political discourse in print, on television or radio, and on the internet...I look for this characteristic. Can a political party, a politician, a pundit look first at the flaws in his or her own party or in him or herself first, acknowledge them, own them, and work to correct them before looking to criticize others. I realize this is often unrealistic. However, I believe this is healthy and leads to growth. It is especially hard to maintain when others are attacking you. Often, our knee jerk reaction, I think, is to blame or criticize others first and avoid realistic self-appraisal.<BR/><BR/>Personally, this is a fundamental value for me that I try to embody in my life off and on the internet. It was instilled in me by my mother, beginning as a young child. I often fall short. I can tell you though, It is a constant battle for me to realize this principal in my life, to acknowledge my weaknesses while resisting the urge to put down others. I try to surround myself with people who share this behavior. I have found that when I can discuss my own limitations realistically, often those around me relax and become more open to it and become less accusatory and more investigatory. This is also what I am drawn to in a blogger.<BR/><BR/>So, your remark succinctly describes what I demand of myself and would like to see more of from others on and off the web. Thank you for putting this into sharp focus.marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-72785141178422018592007-06-19T21:11:00.000-05:002007-06-19T21:11:00.000-05:00I want to give it a fair shake and see if there is...<I>I want to give it a fair shake and see if there is some responsivity, flexibility, and the capacity to value differing points of view here, particularly from Ms. Althouse.</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe you should work on developing those personality traits yourself, *then* worry about whether or not other people possess them.<BR/><BR/>It is particularly silly to list Althouse and Instapundit as examples of people who don't value differing points of view. Glenn and Ann disagree on quite a few subjects, but that didn't stop Glenn from inviting Ann to guest-blog for him.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86713785059593192312007-06-19T08:20:00.000-05:002007-06-19T08:20:00.000-05:00Paco Wové said...And yet, here you are.You are cor...Paco Wové said...<BR/>And yet, here you are.<BR/><BR/>You are correct sir. I want to give it a fair shake and see if there is some responsivity, flexibility, and the capacity to value differing points of view here, particularly from Ms. Althouse. This is her blog and I think she has a profound impact on the atmosphere created here. Will it be hospitable or will it resemble the atmospheric make-up of some outer planet, rendering it unfit for human development (or any form of life for that matter). If it is the latter, fortunately for you, I will not be hanging out here too much longer.marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46167020161281543412007-06-19T06:56:00.000-05:002007-06-19T06:56:00.000-05:00And yet, here you are.And yet, here you are.Paco Wovéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00053886112561036768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-85369634867120963992007-06-19T06:44:00.000-05:002007-06-19T06:44:00.000-05:00LoafingOaf said... Freddie: I'm very critical of t...LoafingOaf said... <BR/>Freddie: I'm very critical of that in the earlier post.<BR/><BR/>Not really as critical as you shoud've been. <BR/><BR/>I'm on dial-up and Ace of Spades tends to take a looong time to load, so I didn't read the post you were commented on till just now. I had no idea from your post that it was such an extremely homophobic post! <BR/><BR/>In an earlier post, I made a similar point. I experience much of the political blogosphere in a similar fashion. It often seems childish, distorted and disjointed (on both the right and left) that seems to border, at times, on the delusional (I just read Ms. Althouse's defense...equating, and in a sense condoning Ace's post with Greenwald's while she has made such a point of highlighting the meanness of the left side of the blogosphere. What a childish and pernicious defense). <BR/><BR/>The likes of Reynolds, Althouse, Malkin, and Greenwald et. al. remind me of a book written by Rokeach in the early 1960's entitled "The 3 Christs of Ypsilanti". It was about Rokeach's experiences as a young psychiatrist working at a state psychiatric hospital prior to the wave of di-institutionalization that swept through the system. He brought together three individuals who each maintained a delusion that they were Jesus Christ (they all had received a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia) and described the process of the group. He found that each of the patients was able to accurately point out that the other group members were delusional and not Jesus while still insisting that, they themselves, were Jesus Christ. <BR/><BR/>What a bunch of bizarre nasty people.marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-35443365069738523402007-06-19T06:19:00.000-05:002007-06-19T06:19:00.000-05:00Loafing: I linked to it because it is a high-traff...Loafing: I linked to it because it is a high-traffic blog that talked about me and characterized me as meaning something that I just wouldn't say. I wanted to argue with that. Sorry if you wish I'd slammed Ace harder, but Greenwald himself did essentially use sexual orientation as a slur.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-56733774768198328902007-06-19T05:24:00.000-05:002007-06-19T05:24:00.000-05:00Freddie: I'm very critical of that in the earlier ...<I>Freddie: I'm very critical of that in the earlier post.</I><BR/><BR/>Not really as critical as you shoud've been. <BR/><BR/>I'm on dial-up and Ace of Spades tends to take a looong time to load, so I didn't read the post you were commented on till just now. I had no idea from your post that it was such an extremely homophobic post! <BR/><BR/>I guess this is just another example of how the entire political blogosphere is getting more and more f**ked up. Both Glenn Reynolds and Ann Althouse linked to this disgustingly anti-gay hate-post without really taking Ace of Spades to task for his hate. Apparently Glenn Reynolds was perfectly okay with it, and while Althouse disagreed with it she gave no mention to just how hateful Ace's post was. I don't get it. Ace's post was appalling. <BR/><BR/>But so it goes in the vastly overrated political blogosphere, where the despicable likes of Glenn Greenwald on the left and Michelle Malkin on the right get props from their respective sides, and their scummy tactics continue to be abided.LoafingOafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398399168775034527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-53573488893525705452007-06-19T03:33:00.000-05:002007-06-19T03:33:00.000-05:00As for torture, you never answered the question I ...As for torture, you never answered the question I posed so many weeks ago: would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if the information gained would save your life, your family, your city? <BR/><BR/>Is the question- would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if (you knew) the information gained would save your life, your family, your city....or is it - would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if (you believed) the information gained would save your life, your family, your city....this, is assuming we can reliably and accurately identify a terrorist of course...and dependably and validly assess an impending threat. What should be the margin of error for false positives and false negatives?marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73823246739446344022007-06-18T22:41:00.000-05:002007-06-18T22:41:00.000-05:00Doyle, darlin' :DYou seem to have a habit of sayin...Doyle, darlin' :D<BR/><BR/>You seem to have a habit of saying needling things to try and get under people's skin.<BR/><BR/>Why is that, I wonder?<BR/><BR/>Cheers! :)Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00083557761155403492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24586509901579167572007-06-18T22:15:00.000-05:002007-06-18T22:15:00.000-05:00the barbaric practice that we beat hitler and Tojo...<I>the barbaric practice that we beat hitler and Tojo without.</I><BR/><BR/>Good point. Let's skip the torture and use the tactics that worked so well on Hitler and Tojo. The next time we're attacked by, say, Iranian terrorists, we'll just kill a few million Iranians and nuke Tehran. Oh, and "relocate" or deport all the Muslims in America while we're at it.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73609076809582043652007-06-18T21:42:00.000-05:002007-06-18T21:42:00.000-05:00would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if the...would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if the information gained would save your life, your family, your city? <BR/><BR/>I do not identify myself as primarily liberal or conservative, but I would consider it.<BR/><BR/>Is there anything that you would not allow your government do to a terrorist if the information gained would save your life, your family, your city?marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-69232072602141911712007-06-18T21:22:00.000-05:002007-06-18T21:22:00.000-05:00Alpha: So when I see Ann Althouse posing as voice ...Alpha: <I>So when I see Ann Althouse posing as voice of moderation and reason all the while serving the torture movement and attacking it's critics, I get pissed off. She is, effectively, pro-torture.</I><BR/><BR/>Another self-righteous hyperbolic distortion, as usual. This is how you <I>engage the right wing directly.</I> Anti-torture is something you browbeat your enemies with to feel better about yourself, its not really something you beleive in. You're not looking to understand others or to change minds, you just want a whipping boy - your liberal hatemongerers have you all riled up, and BushHitler is not available. Really, I can't remember the last time you presented a factual civil argument here. Link please?<BR/><BR/>As for torture, you never answered the question I posed so many weeks ago: <B>would you allow waterboarding of terrorists if the information gained would save your life, your family, your city?</B> There's no right or wrong answer for me, I just haven't found a liberal anti-torture champion willing to sacrifice everything for his proclaimed principles. They want <I>exceptions</I> when its their butt on the line.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-68004908449505894772007-06-18T21:17:00.000-05:002007-06-18T21:17:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16754324286162029142007-06-18T20:24:00.000-05:002007-06-18T20:24:00.000-05:00Fen, Fen, Fen. I come and go, depending if she's b...Fen, Fen, Fen. <BR/><BR/>I come and go, depending if she's being an enabler for Bush. Sometimes, I even compliment her, applaud a pretty photo she's published. Or share comment on an inane topic. <BR/><BR/>Sometimes, not so much.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-16675804758405477652007-06-18T20:17:00.000-05:002007-06-18T20:17:00.000-05:00Seven Machos launches a broadside on a strawman:"Y...Seven Machos launches a broadside on a strawman:<BR/><BR/>"Yeah, Alpha, dude, you are never here and you hate reading Althouse's site."<BR/><BR/>Wrong on both counts. Never said I'm never here, but I scan and visit. Tried to say some nice things about her and the chance to engage the right wing directly. <BR/><BR/>Now, I'll admit I've been angry today and here's why. Last night I read a good portion of <A HREF="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh" REL="nofollow">this report from Sy Hirsch in the New Yorker about General Taguba, who conducted the Pentagon investigation of Abu Ghraib</A>. <A HREF="http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003453.php" REL="nofollow">The article discusses</A> some more of what he found, how he was punished for trying to do his duty in this investigation and some of the twisted shit the Cheney Command has our troops doing at Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and God knows where else. (Taguba is one of many generals fired by Cheney-Bush).<BR/><BR/>They're visiting this torture upon innocent people. I suspect a majority of the people tortured are innocent. This torture I regard as a stain upon our nation's good name. Pisses me off. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Glenn Greenwald looks closely at the torture, the legal rationale used to promote it and the "unitary executive" theory and the people who help the practice continue. <BR/><BR/>Ann Althouse praises <A HREF="http://instaputz.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Glenn Instaputz</A> who makes excuses for torture and the Cheney Command that promotes <A HREF="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html" REL="nofollow">the barbaric practice that we beat hitler and Tojo without</A>. <BR/><BR/><BR/>So when I see Ann Althouse posing as voice of moderation and reason all the while serving the torture movement and attacking it's critics, I get pissed off. She is, effectively, pro-torture. <BR/><BR/>Like I say, a disgrace for the UW.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64384622805617991032007-06-18T17:24:00.000-05:002007-06-18T17:24:00.000-05:00Alpha: Having a disagreement with someone is a tad...Alpha: <I>Having a disagreement with someone is a tad bit different than participating in a pogrom of historical proportions</I><BR/><BR/>But you don't have a "disagreement" with her. You don't like her choice of topics - you [and other Lefties] regularly try to tell her what she can and can't talk about. You all continuously troll her blog and try to shut her down because she doesn't toe the Party Line. Pogrom indeed.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04537941237536682722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-42095180522418288952007-06-18T16:41:00.000-05:002007-06-18T16:41:00.000-05:00It's not something I'm especially proud of, but ye...<I>It's not something I'm especially proud of, but yes, I am probably one of her most prolific trolls. I can't stand her. I just can't, and I want to do my small part to discourage her from blogging, or at least to denigrate her in the eyes of her readers.</I><BR/><BR/>Man... I knew Doyle was a loser, but I never realized he was THAT much of a loser. I'm not sure what's worse -- having goals as pathetic as those, or failing to meet them.Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-66264828705947519752007-06-18T14:57:00.000-05:002007-06-18T14:57:00.000-05:00Yeah, Alpha, dude, you are never here and you hate...Yeah, Alpha, dude, you are never here and you hate reading Althouse's site.<BR/><BR/>Why is it that Althouse has a wide readership (composed, it seems, largely of people who vote differently than she does)? Why is it that you don't? Why is it that no one attaches a single speck of importance to what you say? Why is it that you toil in anonymity -- if you are so right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-24258766608525047552007-06-18T14:56:00.000-05:002007-06-18T14:56:00.000-05:00alphaliberal wrote:To sum, I don't share Ann Altho...alphaliberal wrote:<BR/><BR/>To sum, I don't share Ann Althouse's authoritarian mindset, which she shares with the hard right. And for which our country is far worse off.<BR/><BR/>I do not think it really involves ideology for Ms. Althouse. I have a hunch it may be more personal then that. Indeed, I have not been able to extract a coherent ideology from her comments and posting. I think she has something against the individuals who happen to hold a liberal ideology. Here's why I think that:<BR/><BR/>From what I have gleaned from Ms. Althouse's blogginghead episodes and some of her postings she has asserted that she supports a good chunk of liberal ideology, however she has strong feelings about maintaining a strong national defense.<BR/><BR/>My sense from many hard core liberal and conservative bloggers is that their dislike of their opposition is secondary to or seems to flow from their dislike of the opposition's ideology. Firedoglake or Ace of Spades first take exception to the political ideology of their opposition, then they attack them personally.<BR/><BR/>Since Ms. Althouse claims to share so much of her belief system with liberals, she cannot attack them primarily on the basis of their ideas so she goes after flaws in other areas of their persona or presentation. With Ms. Althouse, it has the flavor of being very very personal. She seems to search for vulnerabilities in the liberal person him or herself.....which appears to me, to be a particularly nasty and malicious form of criticism, because it is so personal. If you are a liberal, she appears to adopt a readiness to view you, the person, as a morally inferior being.....not so much your ideas.<BR/><BR/>Of course this is all speculation....and if it approximates any truth, I have no idea as to what drives it. I doubt she is the only one in the blogosphere who functions this way....but her activity on the internet seems particularly virulent and destructive.marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39247908015952713362007-06-18T13:19:00.000-05:002007-06-18T13:19:00.000-05:00Fen: Having a disagreement with someone is a tad b...Fen: Having a disagreement with someone is a tad bit different than participating in a pogrom of historical proportions. <BR/><BR/>That you can't tell the difference between the two says far more about you than anyone else.AlphaLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08711124490821422066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-74540327073868218072007-06-18T12:13:00.000-05:002007-06-18T12:13:00.000-05:00Maybe you guys could just give Ann a list of who s...Maybe you guys could just give Ann a list of who she should denounce. Include talking points so that her criticism is harsh enough to meet your needs.<BR/><BR/>I'm still amused that the Left has little brownshirts trolling the net, telling Dems what they are allowed to discuss.<BR/><BR/><I>psst! Hey, can you guys make FDL and HuffPo criticise Al Queda for that recently discovered torture manual? Thanks</I>Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-38755969772042803242007-06-18T11:20:00.000-05:002007-06-18T11:20:00.000-05:00Ann Althouse said...Freddie: I'm very critical of ...Ann Althouse said...<BR/>Freddie: I'm very critical of that in the earlier post.<BR/><BR/>I would never have known the gratuitious nature of Ace of Spades comments based upon your 'criticism'. It was only after reading his post directly. <BR/><BR/>Do you function like this outside the blogosphere? If so, it is hard to imagine that you are a trustworthy individual.marklewinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05415072546941609808noreply@blogger.com