tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post115824262813976162..comments2024-03-28T18:36:46.949-05:00Comments on Althouse: Special sections and hidden themes in the NYT.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158289356716365382006-09-14T22:02:00.000-05:002006-09-14T22:02:00.000-05:00And I think Duke only made the list of top gay-fri...And I think Duke only made the list of top gay-friendly colleges, because they have cute Lacrosse players . . .downtownladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08663069432164302806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158288225248623132006-09-14T21:43:00.000-05:002006-09-14T21:43:00.000-05:00I'd say it's more coincidence, but we'll have to l...I'd say it's more coincidence, but we'll have to look for a trend.<BR/><BR/>If I want to look for gay news, there are hundreds of web sites to go to for that. I wouldn't have known to have looked for the New York Times on Thursday.<BR/><BR/>Also - I do like the Home section, but the fashion section means nothing to me. I think it's mostly straight women who read that. Many gay men are interested in fashion - but I don't think they read the New York Times for that. I don't.<BR/><BR/>As for gay safe schools, I was pleased to see that my school was in the top 20. Unfortunately, I was in the closet then - but even in the late 80's, I remember that it was extremely gay friendly. And if a high school student is out of the closet, I don't see how in the world he could ignore the gay friendliness of a school. Like he's supposed to choose Oral Roberts University over a gay friendly school, because it theoretically has a better religion department? Give me a break. Straight people are absolutely clueless about the abuse gay people can receive from bigots. Why should they deliberately subject themselves to that? <BR/><BR/>Heck - I won't even visit the bigot states that pass anti-marriage amendments.downtownladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08663069432164302806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158287201885065322006-09-14T21:26:00.000-05:002006-09-14T21:26:00.000-05:00I wasn't especially looking for the gay theme. As ...I wasn't especially looking for the gay theme. As I said in the original post, I just make a list of articles that interest me. Today, I looked at my list and saw a gay theme and got to wondering if they deliberately saved them up for Thursday.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158284007183757452006-09-14T20:33:00.000-05:002006-09-14T20:33:00.000-05:00Ann,I do want to complement you. I do appreciate ...Ann,<BR/>I do want to complement you. I do appreciate that you respond to your readers in the "comments" section. It is refreshing for a blogger to do this and sets you apart from many of the bloggers out there.<BR/>I don't agree with all of your politics but I think you are pretty cool.Titushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505398901816313803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158283796435975262006-09-14T20:29:00.000-05:002006-09-14T20:29:00.000-05:00Ann,As far as the gay theme stories being "cluster...Ann,<BR/><BR/>As far as the gay theme stories being "clustered" I really don't have an answer for that. I am not sure why that is the case. Maybe the paper thinks it will sell more papers with these articles being "clustered".<BR/><BR/><BR/>My point was just that NYC has a large gay population and gay stories probably sell fairly well in NYC because of the larger population within many of the industries within NYC.<BR/><BR/>For me personally, I really don't follow many "gay theme stories".<BR/><BR/>For the most part gay stories bore me unless something tragic (Matthew Shepard) happens. Then I get pissed. <BR/><BR/>Recently, the NYT had an obituary for one of the dancers that started the "Vogue" scene back in the 80's named Willie Ninja. That story did interest me-he was supposed to work with Madonna when she stole "Voguing" from the black drag queens (who also tended to be pretty poor, not your sterotypical affluent gays).<BR/><BR/>I do believe that some gay people feel affirmation or support when reading gay stories in the papers and I can understand that.Titushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505398901816313803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158282246722885352006-09-14T20:04:00.000-05:002006-09-14T20:04:00.000-05:00Boston70: I don't get your point. I read the NYT e...Boston70: I don't get your point. I read the NYT every day. It struck me that the gay stories were clustered on Thursday. You're not responding to that. Of course, I understand that there will be over time a lot of gay stories (which is obviously fine with me). I'm just saying they all hit on Thursday!Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158281665249423232006-09-14T19:54:00.000-05:002006-09-14T19:54:00.000-05:00Ann,You should also consider the fact that it is ...Ann,<BR/>You should also consider the fact that it is still a New York City paper. And NYC happens to have one of the largest, most visible gay populations in the world. Could it be that the paper just is catering to a large base who reads the paper.<BR/>As a gay man I read the paper everyday also. Not because of any gay themes but because I enjoy many of the international stories which are not in most american papers.<BR/>If they throw in a gay story here and there all the better for me personally and many of my gay friends who also read the paper.<BR/>Many of the large industries are dominated by gay people: interior design, fashion, retail, publishing, media, academics, public relations and also non-stereotypical areas: Wall Street, construction, science, health care.<BR/>It is refreshing to know there is a city in this country that is not obsessed about gay people's sex lives.<BR/>What major american city would have a "republican" mayor who supports gay marriage and a previous mayor who has dressed in drag multiple times and lived with a couple of gay guys during 9/11?Titushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505398901816313803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158281085408470472006-09-14T19:44:00.000-05:002006-09-14T19:44:00.000-05:00"I don't know whether to trust the assumption that..."I don't know whether to trust the assumption that more white-collar gays are out of the closet over blue collar."<BR/><BR/>An interesting question. As a lawyer living in a big city, it seems that most of the gay people I know are white-collar. But social networks are built in a way that makes it more likely you'll meet people who resemble you.<BR/><BR/>However, lots of time spent in bars back in my single days proved that there was a much broader social spectrum in the gay world than you might think. In addition to the expected doctors, lawyers, teachers, and so on, there were mechanics, cops, Marines, and similar types. In some ways it's the most egalitarian society imaginable because money matters far less than certain other assets.<BR/><BR/>There's lots of potential grist here for some academic's mill.tjlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06162785796605831050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158277123474792282006-09-14T18:38:00.000-05:002006-09-14T18:38:00.000-05:00chuckb, I've reported your breach of Eyes Only int...chuckb, I've reported your breach of Eyes Only intelligence to the High Command and you should be hearing the rap of stillettos on the stairs soon. <BR/><BR/>Drill Sgt., I don't know whether to trust the assumption that more white-collar gays are out of the closet over blue collar. I have seen plenty of exceptions on both sides. There are white collar gays who have success and social status as a motivation to stay in the closet, in fact to marry and live double lives. I have met quite a few such folks here in New Orleans, where there's still a small strata of society that sees itself as aristocratic. On the other hand, most of the gay people I know are a mix of working class and middle class professionals. The urban thing happens because young gay people tend to leave those little towns, whether out of fear, discretion (worrying about either embarrasing their parents or being rejected by them), and to meet other gay people. But there are magazines, social groups, and events that cater especially to rural gay people, so they're out there, living their lives on their farms and in their small towns.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158272860315209612006-09-14T17:27:00.000-05:002006-09-14T17:27:00.000-05:00the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policyI hat...<I>the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy</I><BR/><BR/>I <B>hate</B> that phrase. The military takes orders. Sodomy is a crime under the Uniform Code of Military Justice not because some generals decided to put it there, but because Congress, under its power "To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces", said so.<BR/><BR/>Are there people in the military opposed to a change? Sure. <I>But they don't get a vote.</I> It's Congress's policy, not the military's, that persons engaging in homosexual acts are criminals. Under that condition, which the military cannot alter, the military policy of offering discharges instead of prosecuting is lenient and tolerant.<BR/><BR/>Unless, of course, one's position is that the military should ignore civilian control whenever its orders are unjust. Me, I'd rather not have the military adopting a policy of ignoring the laws of the United States.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05138730966226244399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158264847619074272006-09-14T15:14:00.000-05:002006-09-14T15:14:00.000-05:00Elizabeth said, "I'm suspicious of that whole assu...Elizabeth said, "I'm suspicious of that whole assumption that gays have more disposable income, or at least that gays have some sort of high-falutin' lifestyle. I certainly don't."<BR/><BR/>Of course she's repeating the talking points of Homosexual High Command. <BR/><BR/>The fact is that most of us make good money selling Christian children into white slavery. <BR/><BR/>Imo, the more we can talk about this, the easier it is to demystify the lifestyle. And that really helps with recruitment. <BR/><BR/>Stay focused on the numbers, people. We can make 2007 another banner year.chuck b.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00882763861745236443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158263309474374662006-09-14T14:48:00.000-05:002006-09-14T14:48:00.000-05:00thanksthanksknoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158261110730159532006-09-14T14:11:00.000-05:002006-09-14T14:11:00.000-05:00drill sgt, would you share your take on gays in th...<I>drill sgt, would you share your take on gays in the military? I respect your opinion and would like to know the viewpoint of someone with real-world experience. </I><BR/><BR/>Mixed opinions. As public policy, I think we should allow open gays in the military.<BR/><BR/>On a personal level, I have gay friends in civilian life, but have seen some portents of additional problems that will become more visible once we stop , don't ask don't tell.<BR/><BR/>An example: The military has basic problems enforcing its non-fraternization policy among straight men/women. The policy varies from service to service and should be made consistent, but at the simplest level.<BR/><BR/>1. don't date somebody in your chain of command (above or below you)<BR/>2. officers don't date enlisted.<BR/><BR/>now with hetero fraternization, things are a bit more visible than gay fraternization so:<BR/><BR/>Once don't ask don't tell is abolished, expect the numbers of fraternization cases gay and hetero to go through the roof as the military attempts to control good order and discipline via another mechanism.The Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158258692215546282006-09-14T13:31:00.000-05:002006-09-14T13:31:00.000-05:00Elizabth,I gave my opinion away in my last questio...Elizabth,<BR/><BR/>I gave my opinion away in my last question.<BR/><BR/><I>Do well educated gays come out more than blue collar gays, thus altering the perceived gay income distribution? </I><BR/><BR/>I think it's an iceberg thing. That there are a lot of blue collar gays in the closet, and that skews the perception. <BR/><BR/>I do agree though now that I think about it, that gays are much more urban, and thus therefore more visible as well.<BR/><BR/>and we have the mass media, trendiness, that tends to raise visibility (positive and negative)The Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158258084349631992006-09-14T13:21:00.000-05:002006-09-14T13:21:00.000-05:00The Drill SGT,You mentioned disposable income - a ...The Drill SGT,<BR/><BR/>You mentioned <I>disposable</I> income - a home is more of an investment, and the more one spends on a mortgage and home upkeep, the less one has for luxuries. It pays off in the long run, but for isn't appealing for those who want to spend their money on fun stuff <B>now</B>.Fatmousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01423926562580355663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158257617289357242006-09-14T13:13:00.000-05:002006-09-14T13:13:00.000-05:00I think that gays and lesbians have more disposabl...I think that gays and lesbians have more disposable income to the extent they are less likely to raise kids, but I think its generally a misperception that gays and lesbians have lots of money to throw around. I think the myth stems from the kinds of gay images that tend to be shown in the popular media: highly-educated, childless, white gay men (e.g., Will & Grace), who do in fact tend to have more disposable income than average, but so do highly educated, childless, white <I>straight</I> men, the explanation for which is independent of sexuality. And there are other factors that diminish gay wealth, such as the lower propensity to form couples and consolidate wealth and expenses, the less secure access to health insurance, tax disadvantages, etc.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594474501025558830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158257460690453272006-09-14T13:11:00.000-05:002006-09-14T13:11:00.000-05:00I second that, knoxgirl. Most people go into the m...I second that, knoxgirl. Most people go into the military out of a variety of reasons: family tradition, love for country, and desire to serve are high on that list. Shouldn't we honor those values across our whole population?<BR/><BR/>Drill Sgt., I'm suspicious of that whole assumption that gays have more disposable income, or at least that gays have some sort of high-falutin' lifestyle. I certainly don't. As the song says, "There's too much month at the end of the money."<BR/><BR/>I live in an urban area, but it means higher costs than if I lived in a less-populated area. I don't have child-rearing expenses, but many, many of my gay friends do. I have family expenses, though, with elderly parents and with helping out with siblings' kid expenses (school tuition, band uniforms, etc.) As for renting, we rent because we can't afford the downpayment and insurance involved in buying right now. But again, I don't see any trends among my gay or straight friends that confirm gays rent and straights buy. That just seems nonsensical.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16774002797359859550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158256704727749882006-09-14T12:58:00.000-05:002006-09-14T12:58:00.000-05:00There are currently 119 co-sponsors for the Milita...There are currently 119 co-sponsors for the Military Readiness Enhancement Act (H.R.1059), which would replace Don't Ask Don't Tell with a policy of nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. (see thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR01059:@@@P)<BR/><BR/>Only six of the 119 co-sponsors are Republicans (Boehlert, Gilcrest, Hastings, Kolbe, Ros-Lehtinen, Shays), two of whom are retiring this year. Democrats have hardly been gay rights pioneers, but its clearly the Republicans who are keeping Don’t Ask Don’t Tell on the books.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594474501025558830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158256505973583602006-09-14T12:55:00.000-05:002006-09-14T12:55:00.000-05:00drill sgt, would you share your take on gays in th...drill sgt, would you share your take on gays in the military? I respect your opinion and would like to know the viewpoint of someone with real-world experience.knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158256354642987072006-09-14T12:52:00.000-05:002006-09-14T12:52:00.000-05:00It's time to get rid of "Don't ask, don't tell" al...It's time to get rid of "Don't ask, don't tell" already. It's an embarassment.<BR/><BR/>As is any policy that denies a person who <I>wants</I> to serve their country.knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158255026033903822006-09-14T12:30:00.000-05:002006-09-14T12:30:00.000-05:00Fatmouse,The first point makes perfect sense. I'm...Fatmouse,<BR/><BR/>The first point makes perfect sense. I'm not convinced about the second however. The conventional wisdom being that home ownership is the single most important factor in building wealthThe Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158254305656235282006-09-14T12:18:00.000-05:002006-09-14T12:18:00.000-05:00Heh, remove one of the "attributes" in the last po...Heh, remove one of the "attributes" in the last post. :PFatmousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01423926562580355663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158254249678884432006-09-14T12:17:00.000-05:002006-09-14T12:17:00.000-05:00Why does the gay community have a lot of disposabl...<I>Why does the gay community have a lot of disposable income?</I><BR/><BR/>Besides not having kids, the overwhelming attribute common attribute of the majority of gays is that they live in dense, urban cores. This means:<BR/><BR/>1. They have a higher income, period, as opposed to those living in rural areas.<BR/>2. They rent, so their money isn't invested in real estate and its maintenance.Fatmousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01423926562580355663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158252286409372772006-09-14T11:44:00.000-05:002006-09-14T11:44:00.000-05:00One wonders however, how long the NYT will be arou...One wonders however, how long the NYT will be around in its current incarnation. I saw the other day that they are selling off their very profitable (33% operating profit on a dollar of revenue) TV stations to "focus on print and online pubs".<BR/><BR/>Just go to Morningstar or some other stock analysis site and see that NYT stock has lost half its value in the last 5 years or so while the WaPo has increased. <BR/><BR/>Pinch is running the family business into the ground, even ignoring the changes in editorial tone and the rampant bias of the paper.<BR/><BR/>Note: I subscribe on weekends to keep my wife happyThe Drill SGThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16394309533144027391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1158251517856323662006-09-14T11:31:00.000-05:002006-09-14T11:31:00.000-05:00It's interesting that it was the act of keeping a ...It's interesting that it was the act of keeping a list that caused Ann to pick up on the "gay themed" articles in the Thursday edition. Perhaps that's because gay themes are now just part of the general culture, and like the weather you don't notice them unless something way out of the ordinary is going on. That's certainly true in NYC where, except for those who insist on making a public statement about sexuality, it's hard to know (and really no reason to care) whether a person, situation or theme is gay, straight or something else (life having gotten way more complicated than it used to be).<BR/><BR/>More than the "gay theme" stuff in Ann's main post, however, I was struck by Ann's comments about the qualities she still finds in the NYT. So many have gotten used to knocking the NYT coverage of specific topics, and its weird insistence on trying to create big news stories out of small events -- the campaign that Raines put on about the Masters golf tournament, and the refusal of Augusta Nat'l to admit women members was a classic, as the story appeared day after day on the front page -- that it's easy to forget the many strengths of the NYT. I read the NYT daily for 25 years, but don't read it regularly anymore -- I look at it during the work week on the web briefly most days, don't miss the TimesSelect stuff, and usually skim the Sunday edition in print. I stopped partly because NYC has an abundance of other sources of good journalism, partly because I got tired of the constant lectures disguised as "news analysis," and partly because I wanted to devote my reading time to better stuff than journalism. Still, it's nice to be reminded how good it can be. So, thank you, Ann, for the reminder. Ann is certainly right that the web would be a poorer place without the NYT (even if it didn't publish her stuff, but I'm glad it does).Richard Dolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12735773524374061429noreply@blogger.com