tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post114675351830350738..comments2024-03-19T01:52:00.810-05:00Comments on Althouse: Can you be a good couple and desire separate housing?Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-46108538957009661902011-12-08T17:49:16.669-06:002011-12-08T17:49:16.669-06:00I read that Carolyne, as part of her divorce settl...I read that Carolyne, as part of her divorce settlement from billionaire Henry Kravis in the 90's, was permitted for several decades going forward, to timeshare Weatherstone so long as she does not remarry. I don't know if she still gets a monthly stipend or form of alimony from him, but I am sure that there is some sort of very lucrative financial reason for her to not marry or leave Weatherstone lest her ex husband and his current wife take total access of the property that belongs to him, not to her.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10417364693044145025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-36265550885686155582009-05-04T16:17:00.000-05:002009-05-04T16:17:00.000-05:00I love you, Meade.I love you, Meade.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50456759537165867102009-05-04T15:36:00.000-05:002009-05-04T15:36:00.000-05:00I think I might have skipped over this excerpt 3 y...I think I might have skipped over this excerpt 3 year agi when I read the linked article. I'm grateful now for a new opportunity to learn selflessness, giving and forgiving, and the orderliness of romantic love suggested by Bissage in his comment above:<br /><br />"One of the challenges of marriage is to learn how to live with a person and integrate that person into your life," he said. "By living apart, you are losing the opportunity to gain that level of intimacy and cooperation." That scenario, he added, assumes that other people's needs are an imposition. Marriage presents an opportunity to learn selflessness as well as giving and forgiving, he said, whereas a long-term romantic arrangement that doesn't involve cohabitation "glorifies individual needs."<br /><br />The most frequent complaint he hears from divorcing couples, Dr. Haltzman said, is that the participants want more time and space for themselves. "I do think this trend helps us realize that alone time is an important element" in romantic relationships, he said.Meadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00117933390338651739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146851219741699212006-05-05T12:46:00.000-05:002006-05-05T12:46:00.000-05:00Yes, Sean E., that was my point. I'm referring to ...Yes, Sean E., that was my point. <BR/><BR/>I'm referring to legal licensed marriage. Beyond protecting the welfare of minor children and the spouses who sacrifice career and earning power in order to rear those children, does the state have any compelling reason to make the living arrangements of two adults any of its business? I can't think of one.Meadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03316388500723034455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146851073939449642006-05-05T12:44:00.000-05:002006-05-05T12:44:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Meadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03316388500723034455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146791032001647322006-05-04T20:03:00.000-05:002006-05-04T20:03:00.000-05:00Brendan: I think the story is that they never inte...Brendan: I think the story is that they never intend to live together.<BR/><BR/>Marghlar: I hear what you mean.<BR/><BR/>Between field problems, deployments and training, my husband and I live separately a good 50% of the time. <BR/><BR/>Sure there's some autonomy that I miss a little every time he comes home. Sure the reunions are fun and romantic. But, what I miss the most is just rubbing shoulders with him on a daily basis.<BR/><BR/>The only situation that I can understand this making sense in is when children are involved. It's not easy to move in with a stranger - no matter how close that stranger is to your parents. I can see how some parents would prefer not to introduce the difficulty of step-dom to their daily life.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824506338738265111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146784543014679612006-05-04T18:15:00.000-05:002006-05-04T18:15:00.000-05:00Everybody does their best to find happiness. This ...Everybody does their best to find happiness. This LAT business, while clearly a silver-medal to marriage (to me at least), might be all that's realistically possible for these people. It's a lot better than nothing. <BR/><BR/>This arrangement also neatly side-steps quite a few thorny issues to, like division of assets, parenting, housework, etc.. In any case, I think we should encourage society to accept different living arrangements, because clearly marriage isn't working in urban environments, and we need to do something to bring up birth rates.altoids1306https://www.blogger.com/profile/01513456215095176970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146784068348795782006-05-04T18:07:00.000-05:002006-05-04T18:07:00.000-05:00what no quxxxo comments today? He must be at a los...what no quxxxo comments today? He must be at a loss to turn this into political issue.<BR/><BR/>And I loved th commenter who said ..it must be a trend, if .00000001% if Manhattan rich are doing this.I'm Full of Souphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241724007440718575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146780365598175532006-05-04T17:06:00.000-05:002006-05-04T17:06:00.000-05:00"I suppose one answer is that people are too jealo..."I suppose one answer is that people are too jealous -- as you describe -- to have multiple long-distance relationships, or to tolerate a partner who has them when you don't."<BR/><BR/>Ann: That might be one answer. But I think that another answer is that ANY relationship (including LAT) can work, as long at the two (or more) people are on the same sheet of music in terms of designing and implementing the relationship. Getting and staying on that same sheet of music is the problem, even between well-meaning people. It seems to me that even honest relationships are often are like the "Peerless case" in contracts, where ambiguity is present, and where neither party is smart enough to even know there is a disagreement in the terms of the agreement.<BR/><BR/>And I called it "unmarried polygamy" only because I couldn't think of a better description. I know it's not real polygamy.<BR/><BR/>And despite my little "human interest story" above (which I put in here only to illustrate another side of the LAT story), I actually agree with what seems to be one of your conclusions, that LAT's can serve a constructive purpose for individuals who desire the distance for whatever reasons.<BR/><BR/>Maxine: "Get a ring". Although there are probably many instances where (as you say) a man could mark his territory and hold someone by giving them a ring, do you really believe this is the right way to hold someone? Do you believe people can even be held? Our divorce statistics would suggest otherwise.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16417952478382032106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146778679810362972006-05-04T16:37:00.000-05:002006-05-04T16:37:00.000-05:00Back in the '70s, my parents had friends, a marrie...Back in the '70s, my parents had friends, a married couple, who bought a duplex (side-by-side rowhouse type) and each took "a side." Their kid had a bedroom on one side (with some toys) and a playroom on the other (with a pull-out love seat in it). I babysat sometimes (both/either side).<BR/><BR/>My dad, while noting that he could see some attraction in that setup, said that if he and mom bought such a thing, he thought a better idea was to stash his kids (then teen-agers) on one side, since they were the ones causing the disruptions in our family.<BR/><BR/>Ahem. LOL.reader_iamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17352836883752091339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146777627254367712006-05-04T16:20:00.000-05:002006-05-04T16:20:00.000-05:00I'd be concerned if this were a trend for couples ...I'd be concerned if this were a trend for couples across the board -- because it does seem like a problem if our society has become so individualistic that we can't stand to live together any more. But, as others have observed, all the couples described in the article are older and most are divorced. If I were in my 50s and used to living my own life, I could see wanting companionship and commitment without a huge lifestyle change.CMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06318639374313150663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146773226772913392006-05-04T15:07:00.000-05:002006-05-04T15:07:00.000-05:00Ah, the modern form of having a mistress, paramour...Ah, the modern form of having a mistress, paramour, or "a little on the side." In the modernized version, however, both parties desire the other to remain a merely occasional plaything. This creates an intemittent pairing more a destination than a relationship; a friendship both narrow and shallow. <BR/><BR/>Paul Johnson's <I>Intellectuals</I> records numerous such liaisons amongst the intelligentsia left. It's often the result of having been an only child (or effectively so), ever after unable to sublimate one's ego for another.KCFleminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00124201866124646626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146772682878516152006-05-04T14:58:00.000-05:002006-05-04T14:58:00.000-05:00You are underestimating the power of jewelry to a ...You are underestimating the power of jewelry to a woman. <BR/><BR/>It doesn't have to be a ring. A good bracelet, earings, a brooch.<BR/><BR/>It doesn't represent the same thing to a man. <BR/><BR/>Although, wars have been fought over returning an engagement ring.Maxine Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18164122931399241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146768100840625542006-05-04T13:41:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:41:00.000-05:00Ricardo: A little helpful hint from sweet little ...Ricardo: A little helpful hint from sweet little me:<BR/><BR/>Get a ring!<BR/><BR/>If you, and all these other guys, want to mark your territory, colonize, flag, etc... you have to do the jewelry thing. At the very least, a good stick pin?<BR/><BR/>No jewelry, no exclusivity.<BR/><BR/>Laws of the land.<BR/><BR/>Peace, MaxineMaxine Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18164122931399241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146767822106874842006-05-04T13:37:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:37:00.000-05:00Meade: I take your meaning to be that stupid, imma...Meade: I take your meaning to be that stupid, immature and selfish jerks deeply wound their children. I couldn't agree more.<BR/><BR/>But, to me, that kind of dynamic has little to do with "the traditional notion of romantic love."<BR/><BR/>To me, the words "traditional" and "romantic" connote "orderliness."Bissagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439910009646381418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146767707094766692006-05-04T13:35:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:35:00.000-05:00Meade: Right, but can you imagine, an IRS Auditor...Meade: Right, but can you imagine, an IRS Auditor comes to your door to check-up on your status.....and your only explanation is:<BR/><BR/> "The traditional notion of romantic love is probably far more damaging to society than realistically and honestly living apart together." <BR/><BR/>I don't think they're gonna accept that.<BR/><BR/>Of course you can always...., quickly, run into the bedroom and rumple the bedspread, hurriedly plop a second set of pillows down.......to make it at least look as if there's a man around the house!<BR/><BR/>Peace, MaxineMaxine Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18164122931399241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146767647061811242006-05-04T13:34:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:34:00.000-05:00Ricardo: If you weren't married, how was it "polyg...Ricardo: If you weren't married, how was it "polygamy"? The only question is whether you were lied to. I'm not recommending lying, just comparing lifestyles. Why is a LAT relationship better than something even less committed? It seems to me that once you're going to live apart, you ought to compare it to the other options. I suppose one answer is that people are too jealous -- as you describe -- to have multiple long-distance relationships, or to tolerate a partner who has them when you don't.<BR/><BR/>A LAT relationship might work well if you have a sexual relationship but can't really tolerate the person's behavior round the clock. Better to extend the good times then to destroy the relationship with too much togetherness.Ann Althousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146767071741543792006-05-04T13:24:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:24:00.000-05:00bissage: You know -- "first comes love, then come...bissage: You know -- "first comes love, then comes marriage..." Show me a bitterly contested custody battle and I'll bet you'll also have a couple who got married primarily because they were "in love," with the ones who came later "in the baby carriage" paying the highest costs of the couple's impetuousness.<BR/><BR/>maxine: I didn't get the impression that any of the people in the article are asking for any of the tax benefits of legal matrimony (though I don't doubt they enjoy the tax benefits of owning mortgages). In fact, for the most part, they sound as though they've all experienced the pains and injuries of previous failed marriages and wish to avoid repeating them. Can you blame them?Meadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03316388500723034455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146766513927159462006-05-04T13:15:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:15:00.000-05:00"The traditional notion of romantic love is probab..."<I>The traditional notion of romantic love is probably far more damaging to society than realistically and honestly living apart together.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Huh?!Bissagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439910009646381418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146765741679222612006-05-04T13:02:00.000-05:002006-05-04T13:02:00.000-05:00Tell that to the IRS, when filing joint tax return...Tell that to the IRS, when filing joint tax returns.<BR/><BR/>I don't think they'd see it quite the same way.<BR/><BR/>Peace, MaxineMaxine Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18164122931399241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146765546466984482006-05-04T12:59:00.000-05:002006-05-04T12:59:00.000-05:00What makes "a good couple?" How does having a coh...What makes "a good couple?" How does having a cohabitant make a woman any happier? And doesn't cheating occur no matter what the legal status of the relationship? I don't see how this reported "trend" hurts anyone. The traditional notion of romantic love is probably far more damaging to society than realistically and honestly living apart together.Meadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03316388500723034455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146765125065608002006-05-04T12:52:00.000-05:002006-05-04T12:52:00.000-05:00In some states it is grounds for divorce to have l...In some states it is grounds for divorce to have lived "separate and apart" for two years.<BR/><BR/>Just saying.<BR/><BR/>word verification: erypscxd. Made my heartburn go away!Bissagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04439910009646381418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146765053683893282006-05-04T12:50:00.001-05:002006-05-04T12:50:00.001-05:00The legal definition, and for tax purposes, I thin...The legal definition, and for tax purposes, I think you have to be domiciled at the same tax address. So, on paper, they have to live together, I think. ???? <BR/><BR/>Can you have separate addresses, legally, for years, and then claim spousal support for those years?<BR/><BR/>Wish I knew family law, or any law!<BR/><BR/>The opposite of this whole thing would be a married couple that lives like brother and sister....is that legally still a marriage?<BR/><BR/>In Teri Hatcher's new autobiography (only the deepest reading for me!) she says she didn't get physical with hubby on the honeymoon.....(interpretation: he's gay?) ahem....and so they weren't really married until the deed was done????<BR/><BR/>Very troubling.<BR/><BR/>Peace, MaxineMaxine Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18164122931399241972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146765041697180132006-05-04T12:50:00.000-05:002006-05-04T12:50:00.000-05:00"Uh, yeah. Let's have a guy with a nice place in A..."Uh, yeah. Let's have a guy with a nice place in Aspen. But wouldn't it be better to have several guys, with housing in various quality vacation spots?"<BR/><BR/>When I was a lot younger, and less wise, I dated a number of stewardesses (flight attendants) who successfully achieved this lifestyle. I didn't realize it during the relationship(s), but I was the "Honolulu guy", while there was also a "Tahoe guy" and a "Vegas guy" and a "Vail guy", etc etc. From a purely hedonistic viewpoint, you can argue that this is the perfect arrangement (for the woman) if you can swing it, but it wasn't that satisfactory once I found out I was "one of several" guys. I then quickly dumped the other person. But since this happened more than once, you can argue that (1) I was a slow learner, (2) there were a lot of women doing this, (3) it must be satisfying to someone, if it's perpetuated, and (4) they were never "mine to dump" since they "belonged" to so many guys.<BR/><BR/>I have come across guys who found themselves in similar unmarried polygamous situations (one girl, dating many guys) who DID like it, because the girl wasn't underfoot all the time. But personally, if you're a guy and looking for a real relationship, this is NOT the right way to go. It may solve some of the housing issues, but it creates even more emotional issues.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16417952478382032106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1146761996544157682006-05-04T11:59:00.000-05:002006-05-04T11:59:00.000-05:00I have discussed this before with women as a serio...I have discussed this before with women as a serious possibility. I have been divorced now for almost 12 years, and have gotten used to my freedom and life style. So have they. Part of this is when you get up in the morning and when you go to bed. Yes, you can change, but in my mid-50s, why do it?<BR/><BR/>In particular, I enjoy my skiing and my computer too much. A week or two a year skiing is just not nearly enough any more. I spent too many years away from Colorado, missed skiing a lot, and don't expect to be able to do so at the level I do now for more than a decade or so more. One friend was bothered by the altitude and the cold. She loved skiing when she could do it, but gave it up over a decade ago for these reasons. She needs to live where it is hot, and I like living where it is not. <BR/><BR/>Yes, it would be probably be great to fall madly in love at my age, so that I couldn't stand to be away from my love. Indeed, my grandmother did it at 80, and her last 10 years were her best. But what if it doesn't happen? Wouldn't living with someone you love and enjoy being around most of the time be better than waiting another 25 years before true love really strikes? <BR/><BR/>I should add that I am probably not the easiest person to live with. I think that I am very patient and emphathetic. Others see me as quite intense. And that has been known to exhaust some people.Bruce Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815293023158025662noreply@blogger.com