Althouse: "The mountains of studies Partridge cites place the scientific consensus about the lack of a link between glyphosate and cancer on par with the vast evidence demonstrating the safety of GMOs generally and with the overwhelming consensus that manmade factors cause climate change."

August 19, 2018

"The mountains of studies Partridge cites place the scientific consensus about the lack of a link between glyphosate and cancer on par with the vast evidence demonstrating the safety of GMOs generally and with the overwhelming consensus that manmade factors cause climate change."

From "Rounding Up the Science Behind the Monsanto Glyphosate Ruling/'Irrational and even hysterical' reporting about glyphosate has served to poison the well of public opinion, says one researcher" (Reason).

67 comments:

sykes.1 said...: We live in a Dark Age of illiteracy and superstition, most evident among the faculties of our universities.; 8/19/18, 8:00 AM
rehajm said...: Manmade factors contribute to climate change. Probably. Maybe. Okay, there’s no conclusive evidence yet but our whole universe simulation predicts it will definitely show up soon. Definitely.

Probably...maybe....; 8/19/18, 8:01 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: We are either a nation that respects science or we're not, so - sorry - but, the same country that tells me believing in Scientology is OK, can't tell me disbelieving in climate change is wrong.

Make up your minds.; 8/19/18, 8:01 AM
AllenS said...: 20,000 years ago there was a glacier covering the land that I presently own. It started to melt about 20,000 years ago, which is proof of global warming. Man had nothing to do with it. Nor can we stop global cooling.; 8/19/18, 8:04 AM
Ralph L said...: It's the other chemicals that are after your cells.
When I worked in ag/landscaping supply, I was told you could drink diluted Roundup without becoming ill, but you shouldn't allow pets or children on lawns sprayed with 2,4 D LV (common broadleaf herbicide that doesn't kill grass) until after it rains.; 8/19/18, 8:05 AM
tim in vermont said...: Evidence for one, “consensus” for the other. LOL.

I fit comfortably in the “consensus” regarding climate change, and yet I am quickly denounced as a “denier” whenever I express my views. It’s almost as if they are using verbal slight of hand there.... Naah! It’s science!; 8/19/18, 8:05 AM
rhhardin said...: The nation is not roundup-ready.; 8/19/18, 8:05 AM
stlcdr said...: The internet is probably carcinogenic.

Also, there's lots of things that are carcinogenic in California, causing birth defects, and all round evil (read everything) but not in the rest of the world.; 8/19/18, 8:05 AM
tim in vermont said...: We live in a Dark Age of illiteracy and superstition, most evident among the faculties of our universities.

They are quite proud of it too. Ever see the getups they wear to a graduation ceremony?; 8/19/18, 8:06 AM
rhhardin said...: What this expert can tell you for sure about climate science is that they have no adult peer review.; 8/19/18, 8:06 AM
AllenS said...: To stop this madness, I say we ban plastic straws!; 8/19/18, 8:08 AM
iowan2 said...: We all know that silicone breast implants cause cancer. A huge lawsuit against chemical giant DOW prove it. Except decades later all the science has not changed from that lawsuit, yet, their is no link between silicone breast implants and cancer.

Ever heard of Hinkely CA ? Yep, the famous oncologist/Lawyer Erin Brockovitch, sued PG&E for its business practices causing high rates of cancer occurrence in the area. But, "A study released in 2010 by the California Cancer Registry showed that cancer rates in Hinkley "remained unremarkable from 1988 to 2008".[8] An epidemiologist involved in the study said that the 196 cases of cancer reported during the most recent survey of 1996 through 2008 were fewer than what he would expect based on demographics and the regional rate of cancer.[8]"

If you seek out answers to your science inquiries, a lawyer that has attained Judge status and 12 laypeople are the final arbiters.; 8/19/18, 8:13 AM
Fernandinande said...: "I seem to have been only like a plaintiff's attorney playing in the courtroom, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother dollar or a larger check than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all ignored before me." -- Isaac Neutron.

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be awarded." -- Carla Sagan; 8/19/18, 8:14 AM
Lucien said...: Aha! One day Ann is lamenting the dearth of real news in the NYT, and the next there are two posts based on items in Reason.

Did she get there by going straight to Reason, or by starting with Volokh and then nosing around?; 8/19/18, 8:18 AM
stlcdr said...: I do have a hard time with these studies to determine the effect on humans. It's simply impossible to have a 'control' group covering decades to study the effect of a single chemical, in minuscule doses, on the human body. We are exposed to so many chemicals, both natural and man made, throughout our lives.

Also, I think a lot of the scientists performing these studies aren't being deceptive, but just don't have enough advanced understanding of statistics (more so those who read and interpret the results of said study).; 8/19/18, 8:18 AM
Original Mike said...: There is already a lawyer ad on television linking roundup with various cancers. I have used roundup (infrequently) for years and I have one of the cancers featured in the ad. I don’t think roundup caused my cancer but it does make me wince when the ad comes on. Fucking bloodsucking lawyers.; 8/19/18, 8:19 AM
Fernandinande said...: "The most beautiful experience we can have is winning the bogus lawsuit. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true greed and real money." -- Albert Allitigator.; 8/19/18, 8:21 AM
daskol said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/19/18, 8:21 AM
daskol said...: He’s got binders full of studies. Neologism: bindersful as in there are bindersful studies demonstrating the effect...; 8/19/18, 8:23 AM
Ralph L said...: The Fire Dept told us they wouldn't put out a fire in our herbicide warehouse, they'd just let it burn. I was more worried about weevilcide. They add an obnoxious smell to it for safety, and I could smell it on coworkers who had applied it (you put the pellets in with the wheat as it goes up the auger).; 8/19/18, 8:28 AM
daskol said...: Mountains of studies only makes sense if you make a giant pile of studies which is less respectful of the science than keeping all the studies nicely organized in binders, which is what people who respect science would do with all that science. They’d keep it binders and then they’d actually be able to go through it more easily and cite it when making claims about it. The mountain of science makes it hard to know what the science in the bottom of the pile, or base of the mountain, actually says.; 8/19/18, 8:31 AM
Fernandinande said...: "If I have seen further it is by removing the tall weeds with Roundup." -- Isaac Neutron.; 8/19/18, 8:31 AM
Michael K said...: There is an ideology behind the GMO and Roundup hysterias.

Gaia knows what we do and punishes those who sin by not eating organic foods. You know, the more expensive stuff in "Whole Foods?"

Those stores you find in every neighborhood with low immunization rates among the children of the well off.; 8/19/18, 8:31 AM
daskol said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/19/18, 8:32 AM
gilbar said...: There is already a lawyer ad on television linking roundup with various cancers. I have used roundup (infrequently) for years and I have one of the cancers featured in the ad. I don’t think roundup caused my cancer

that's the beauty of it!
x people in the country have used a product
y people in the country have a cancer
x ∩ y are the people with a cancer that used a product: These are your clients; 8/19/18, 8:33 AM
Paco Wové said...: Ralph L –
does the weevilcide get separated back out of the wheat at some point?; 8/19/18, 8:33 AM
daskol said...: Loads of science sounds scatalogical.; 8/19/18, 8:34 AM
Sebastian said...: "Irrational and even hysterical' reporting about glyphosate has served to poison the well of public opinion, says one researcher"

Are there any such cases where the reporting is not irrational, hysterical, and ignorant? Panic mongering is the MSM business model: gotta keep soap opera women watching. Just yesterday we briefly talked about the Flint water panic. Of course, such panics are also exploited by prog politicians: throw billions more at New Orleans or Flint or-- whatever. For the poor, children, blacks -- whatever.

And American law is a greater cancer than anything caused by Roundup.; 8/19/18, 8:41 AM
Charlie Currie said...: Consensus? Here's your consensus...you suck at science.; 8/19/18, 8:49 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: Too bad Reason didn’t see fit to explain the science because it’s pretty simple. Glyphosate interrupts photosynthesis. The reason 800 studies showed no harm to humans is because glyphosate has no effect on us at all. Unless and until humans need to start making sugar from sunlight in our skin cells, and we are green, then Round-up ain’t gonna hurt us. I think the scientifically illiterate Media just likes the fact that “glyphosate” almost sounds like “phosphate” and, hey, we all know how bad those are, right?; 8/19/18, 8:53 AM
Ralph L said...: Paco, the pellets evaporate in humidity, so cold, dry weather makes them less effective and slower to work. You seal the bin for a few days and then turn on the powerful fans that push outside air through the grain and out the top (some days I could smell this). It can take several days.

Mills won't take wheat that smells like insecticide or rot, and they check every truckload at multiple points of the load. Rotten soybeans have a different but equally nasty odor.; 8/19/18, 8:57 AM
AustinRoth said...: Scientific consensus is only valid when it supports Progressive causes. Otherwise one study that contradicts every other is of course the only “untainted” one.; 8/19/18, 8:57 AM
mockturtle said...: Once again, back to George Carlin, who had all the answers: Save the Planet; 8/19/18, 9:00 AM
iowan2 said...: The Fire Dept told us they wouldn't put out a fire in our herbicide warehouse, they'd just let it burn.

Let the fire burn, or, pour a half million gallons of water on the fire, and some how deal with a half a million gallons of water getting into the surface water. The decision to let it burn was made by management when they filed their emergency management plan with the county EMS office and reinforced with the Fire Department on their annual on site tour of the facility.; 8/19/18, 9:04 AM
Ralph L said...: We bitch about trial lawyers, and the Brits about "Health and Safety," but I thought at the time that we would never have the unguarded tunnel pillars that killed Princess Died. Yet I did not hear a word about them on TV. No one wanted to offend the French?; 8/19/18, 9:05 AM
Crimso said...: "The Fire Dept told us they wouldn't put out a fire in our herbicide warehouse, they'd just let it burn."

I bet they don't think twice before attacking a fire in a house with PVC siding. I once had a chemist who specializes in vinyl tell me that he refuses to have any vinyl in his home (including plumbing; all copper). He said the amount of dioxins produced by having a vinyl storage shed burn down would have the site declared a toxic waste site if such incidents were thusly regulated.; 8/19/18, 9:14 AM
Ralph L said...: The decision to let it burn was made by management when they filed their emergency management plan with the county EMS office

Haha! It was a simpler time and place.
We did have fire inspections, but no signs on the fence until the mid aughts.

Compared to Iowa, farming in the Southern Piedmont is tiny, fragmented, amateurish, and mostly part-time. After tobacco died, I don't know how anyone made money.; 8/19/18, 9:15 AM
Gahrie said...: Civilization did not cause global warming. Global warming caused civilization. The current interval of global warming began 12,000 years ago. Civilization began 6,000 years ago.; 8/19/18, 9:24 AM
tim in vermont said...: Thanks for the reminder, BTW. One of the things that really puts a shine on this property is proper application of roundup every three weeks or so.; 8/19/18, 10:05 AM
Sam L. said...: Studies for the first two, and consensus for man-made climate change. Why did the climate change before there were people?; 8/19/18, 10:08 AM
Gahrie said...: Why did the climate change before there were people?

The dinosaurs drove SUVs.; 8/19/18, 10:27 AM
Seeing Red said...: Was DuPont or Dow who was the defendant in the breast implant class action case that I think was fake science?; 8/19/18, 10:36 AM
Yancey Ward said...: The dinosaurs died from their own farts.; 8/19/18, 10:36 AM
Seeing Red said...: We are either a nation that respects science or we're not, so - sorry - but, the same country that tells me believing in Scientology is OK, can't tell me disbelieving in climate change is wrong.

Make up your minds.

We don’t have to make up our minds. There’s so much impossible to replicate or bogus research they’re doing it for us.; 8/19/18, 10:37 AM
Larry Davis said...: They lost me at"Johnson's case centered on his use of two of Monsanto's glyphosate-containing pesticides, Ranger Pro and Roundup." Roundup is a herbicide, not a pesticide. Poor reporting.; 8/19/18, 10:52 AM
Yancey Ward said...: Dow Corning was the defendant in the breast implant case.; 8/19/18, 11:11 AM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: "Poison the well of public opinion"

HA! ISWBLDT; 8/19/18, 11:39 AM
Comanche Voter said...: Ah Rachel Carson (and her successors). Rachel made the world safe for brown pelicans and mosquitoes. And got DDT banned--and thereby condemned millions of people to death and disease from malaria.

And I'll continue to use Roundup from time to time. But like everything else that might be toxic, I'll wear PPE while using it. I know I could probably swim in a vat of it and be okay, but there's no point in being stupid.; 8/19/18, 11:42 AM
Ralph L said...: Roundup is a herbicide, not a pesticide.

I thought that was weird, too, but in the Ag world, herbicides and insecticides are both pesticides.
The state issues pesticide licenses that cover both, as does the required training.; 8/19/18, 11:56 AM
Wince said...: "The mountains of studies Partridge cites place the scientific consensus about the lack of a link between glyphosate and cancer on par with the vast evidence demonstrating the safety of GMOs generally and with the overwhelming consensus that manmade factors cause climate change."

Toxic chemicals, however, can be subject to controlled, truly scientific experimentation and testing (not on humans), whereas climate change can only be forecast using statistical inference from historic, often "proxy" data that has been massaged.

Epidemiology is the human health statistical equivalent to "climate science", which is more susceptible to the same human, institutional and pecuniary biases.; 8/19/18, 11:59 AM
Richard said...: What I find remarkable is that scientific truths can be determine by 12 people who were specifically selected for their lack of knowledge about science.; 8/19/18, 12:00 PM
Howard said...: Toxicology is not a science. Look what happened when the Nazi's tried to make it a science.; 8/19/18, 12:07 PM
n.n said...: Monsanto knew for years that consumers of its products would not follow established best practices and some would suffer catastrophic injury and even death. If you or a loved one has been injured or died while using Roundup call us now. It does not matter if you did not personally use the product. It does not matter if decades have passed. It does not even matter if you are smoker or toker.; 8/19/18, 12:22 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger Yancey Ward said...
Dow Corning was the defendant in the breast implant case.

The trial lawyer I used to review med-mal cases for and testified in a few trials. told me that the breast implant and asbestos cases poisoned the well of juries in Alabama and they were getting out of med-mal altogether.

Most of the cases he took to trial were worthwhile. This stuff hurts real people who have been injured.

It's like the news media. Juries don't believe the plaintiffs anymore because of the lies.; 8/19/18, 1:12 PM
mockturtle said...: The dinosaurs died from their own farts.

It's a little-known fact, Yancey. Dinosaurs, at some point, began having farting contests in enclosed spaces and asphyxiated themselves. The herbivores were the bigger culprits.; 8/19/18, 1:23 PM
Richard said...: The real reason dinosaurs died out; 8/19/18, 2:05 PM
iowan2 said...: Pesticides kill pests.
Herbicides kill weed pest
Avicides kill bird pest
Rodenticides kill rodent pest
Insecticide kill insect pest
Etc.

This is not a criticism of any person. Such minutia is of little significance.; 8/19/18, 3:32 PM
Floris said...: Those Reason folks are obviously in the pocket of the Big Freedom Companies.; 8/19/18, 4:00 PM
Howard said...: One out of three (1/3) get cancer. Most product exposures that get labeled carcinogenic increase this risk to 1/3.001.

Roundup is so ubiquitous, exposure in terms of mg/Kg/day in the US is probably more than any other regulated chemical in history. If there was a problem, it would be apparent by now. Besides, cancer fell by 25% in the US during the last 25-years.

More good news just makes people more pessimistic because the bar for happiness increases at a faster rate.; 8/19/18, 4:09 PM
rightguy said...: I have managed to survive the many cancer hysterias since the 1960's, including allegedly environmental carcinogens and purportedly carcinogenic synthetic food additives.Its been a long strange trip from cyclamate to alar to Agent Orange to dioxin to powerline radiations to glyphosphate.

Most of these threats havn't panned out even a little bit, but we always must move on to next big scary thing.

Stay worried my friends.; 8/19/18, 4:21 PM
iowan2 said...: Alar is interesting. A growth regulator used in apples to help keep them on the tree until picking and keeping them firm long enough to get shipped to consumers. It was attacked, not by going to court, but by going to the media. 60 Minutes, Donahue, Meryl Streep, etc. The public opinion shifted quickly negative about something they knew nothing about. After it was withdrawn voluntarily, later research confirmed the safety of the product, but the NRDC learned how to take a scalp and keep money pouring into its coffers. But somehow, intelligent people still think it's a carcinogen.Like the examples I gave earlier today.(Its not their fault, it impossible to care about everything). Truth has no place in the PR game, and the media is not exactly eager to expose how ignorant and lazy they are about their big scoops; 8/19/18, 7:25 PM
Jeff said...: It's not just bogus lawsuits. We have assholes like Drs Oz and Mercola telling millions of gullible people, mostly women, that they have all sorts of medical problems that aren't real: leaky gut, gluten intolerance (not celiac disease, which is a real thing but not very common), multiple chemical sensitivity, heavy metal poisoning from fillings in their teeth, fluoride poisoning from fluoridated water, allergies to all kinds of stuff not based an actual allergy testing, nutritional deficiencies and hazardous substance poisoning diagnosed via bogus tests on hair samples, and the list goes on. A lot of this shit is pushed by people selling supplements to treat the alleged illnesses. And then there are the hypochondriacs who read something on the Internet and then disbelieve the doctors who tell them they don't have seven different rare diseases. They just doctor shop until they find a quack who will tell them they're really ill.

Some of this is because the lawyers are always on TV telling people that the doctors are all crooked, and nobody believes anyone any more.

People's lives are being ruined, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it.; 8/19/18, 8:28 PM
mockturtle said...: My brother was a vegan, a health nut and a hypochondriac. He dropped dead unexpectedly last year of 'natural causes' at 69. I guess the term 'natural' is appropriate here...; 8/19/18, 9:08 PM
hstad said...: The Pro-Climate Change Crowd use appeals to authority and scurrilous ad hominem attacks which are no substitute for rational argument in Science. The pro-climate change scientists like James Hansen, Phil Jones and Michael Mann are known mud throwers and derive great rewards for pushing this questionable scientific view. In the meantime, if you're a scientist like John Christy, Judith Curry, Lennart Bengtsson and the great Richard Lindzen, the attacks by pro-climate change scientists are relentless and the Skeptics above have had to pay a severe professional price - drummed out of their professions. Yet, the MSM rarely, if ever, cite climate skeptic heavyweights like Freeman Dyson, Ivar Giaever and Robert Laughlin because they don't tow the pro-climate change narrative.; 8/19/18, 11:49 PM
Gahrie said...: The Mann-Steyn case is still dragging on isn't it?; 8/20/18, 12:49 AM
Bob Loblaw said...: This case reminds me of the breast implant suit that put Dow Corning into bankruptcy based on no credible science whatsoever.; 8/20/18, 5:01 AM
ccscientist said...: Fundamentally, if a government agency certifies a chemical as safe a company shouldn't face such suits. Citizens should have the right to appeal that safety rating to a court but not to get hundreds of millions based on a trial. In the face of such risk companies can stop making all sorts of useful things. There is widespread paranoia about chemicals that resembles TDS.; 8/20/18, 3:13 PM