February 14, 2018

"The mostly male, mostly white, mostly straight world of technology and digital-culture journalism is in the midst of a cultural realignment about how it views the sort of 'ironic' political incorrectness..."

"... (and outright Nazism) prevalent in online spaces like 4chan and its orbit. What was once permissible among hacktivists and their observers and hangers-on — hobnobbing with white supremacists, even if you disagreed — no longer is in an America where white supremacists are particularly emboldened, and when that movement has literally been stoked on 4chan. A decade ago, it was much easier to shrug off explicit invocations of Nazism and white supremacy online. For a certain type of reporter hanging out in transgressive parts of the internet, putting up with these shenanigans was par for the course. But that attitude — that it’s just trolling, that it’s ironic, that you don’t know the context — has provided cover for hundreds of acts of genuine hate and violence over the last two years. The idea that because a person leans left in their politics, they can comfortably associate with white supremacists and not be guilty by association is outdated for a lot of people, and the Times apparently heard from enough of them."

From "The Saga of Quinn Norton’s 7-Hour Times Career, Explained" by Brian Feldman in New York Magazine.

37 comments:

I am Six Words or Less said...

"literally... ...stoked": fueling for metaphor fires.

-6W

I am Six Words or Less said...

Nazi milk is sour. Spill. Cry.

-6W

I am Six Words or Less said...

"Cultural realignment": bald tires steer left.

-6W

n.n said...

A National Socialist, DNC/KKK/Antifa, diversitist, congruent, chauvinist, Pro-Choice, twilight therapy session.

Fernandistein said...

"Speaking as a straight, white male ..."

Yikes!

That's the worst kind of white male, AND the worst kind of straight male, rolled into one. I'd stay away from that male because it might be contagious.

MadisonMan said...

The idea that because a person leans left in their politics, they can comfortably associate with white supremacists and not be guilty by association is outdated for a lot of people, and the Times apparently heard from enough of them

I resist the notion that everyone has to behave as someone else -- other than me -- sees fit. Unlike the author, Brian Feldman, there does exist in my world room for people to say outrageous and hateful things.

Thought Police are not a good thing just because you agree with the thoughts being policed against.

rhhardin said...

When did retard and fag get bad. Somebody's making up rules.

Some language fag retard is making up rules.

The words still perform properly, apparently.

AJ Lynch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chuck said...

Is the NY Times better than 4chan?

AJ Lynch said...

Hilarious to see the left kill each other.

Can't wait til more and more middle class Dems realize the Dem party cares way way more about minority groups and illegals than it cares about normal Americans.

Hyphenated American said...

I wonder when they start firing people for being friends with communists, terrorists, Islamic supremacists, and black racists....

Obama?

Henry said...

I also believe people are redeemable.

It's hard not to get the impression that Mr. Feldman considers Ms. Norton only 33% redeemable based on all the qualifiers he throws out.

However, I wouldn't hire her either. Not for a celebrity byline position. That said, I'm curious -- what kind of chops did she bring to the job?

Balfegor said...

has provided cover for hundreds of acts of genuine hate and violence over the last two years.

This seems like an exaggeration, frankly, unless you define "hate and violence" way down to "said something mean" (in which case the true number has to be in the thousands or millions).

A lot of the supposed hate acts are just hoaxes. There's also that one Israeli teenager who made "scores" of bomb threats against Jewish institutions. And that journalist, Juan Thompson who made a bunch more bomb threats against Jewish institutions. There's just a lot of fake hate that gets reported uncritically by reporters who, I suppose, genuinely believe that this sort of thing must be happening all the time because TRUMP.

mikee said...

So if we all work real hard to eliminate all associations/comparisons/evocations/etc. with National Socialism, can we at the same time eliminate all leftist progressive lapdog support for Marxism and all forms of communism, or at least all their support for collectivist totalitarianism at home and abroad?

Triangle Man said...

Unlike the author, Brian Feldman, there does exist in my world room for people to say outrageous and hateful things.

Without consequence?

Richard said...

Blogger I am Six Words or Less said...
"Cultural realignment": bald tires steer left.

It appears that Ann has attracted a Calvin Coolidge wannabe, except Calvin could do it in two words.

A famous anecdote tells of a dinner party during which the person sitting adjacent to the Coolidge said: “Mr. President I’ve made a large bet that I would be able to make you say more than two words.” Coolidge considered this proposition carefully and then replied slowly and emphatically, “You lose.”

langford peel said...

You don't try to join the New York Times.

You try to destroy them.

The Times is the mortal enemy of the American people. Of normals. Of whites and non-criminal minorities. Of America.

Luckily their time is limited.

Kevin said...

Now that Obama left office "guilty by association" may commence!

YoungHegelian said...

Now, hanging with Stalinists, black & brown racists, & Islamic jihadists who want to mass murder groups other than the Nazis wanted to murder (hey, it's not like any of those groups like Jews either...), that's still okay for the kewl kids.

langford peel said...

Eventually the regular inmates realize who the kapos are and what their job entails.

The end game is never pretty.

Anthony said...

These people really are nuts, aren't they.

MadisonMan said...

Without consequence?

Consequence from me? I'm not that powerful, you do realize that, right?

I think I'd probably file it under Wow, someone is having a bad day. I think, in general, people are good and warm-hearted.

JPS said...

"in an America where white supremacists are particularly emboldened"

They are?

Is this like Sarah Silverman seeing those white supremacist signs on the sidewalk right after Trump was elected?

Guildofcannonballs said...

I told one of 'em, can't remember who, maybe it was anDy-Spaced Sadist de Sade?, anyway I told 'em they can't hang around a bunch of right wing racists at Althouse (comments section only) without being a damn dirty piece of racist garbage themselves.

No excuses I said to them, you spend time in the comments engaging the racist hate-filled bigoted likes of me then you are a dirty filth-stink R A C I S T !!!

Total oblivion is the only acceptable modern-day eschaton.

Char Char Binks said...

White supremacists are so emboldened that even white liberal men can have their lives destroyed for having even peripheral contact online with them.

Char Char Binks said...

I believe Coolidge's reply was actually "Fuck you." It's been bowdlerized. I read it here.

Jupiter said...

If I was Carlos Slim, I'd start selling my Times stock. Quietly, of course.

Jupiter said...

Do you suppose they would have fired her if she'd been known to be friendly with Bill Ayers and Louis Farrakhan?

buwaya said...

"I think, in general, people are good and warm-hearted."

Unless they feel threatened by their enemies, or, in this case, their friends.

wildswan said...

You can be a Planned Parenthood supporter
-even though the black birth rate has fallen below replacement level and is still falling
-even though Margaret Sanger addressed a Klan rally and worked to lower the black birth rate
-even though the founders of Planned Parenthood were American Eugenics Society members
-even though Margaret Sanger was a American Eugenic Society member at the same time as was Otmar F Von Verschuer who planned Josef Mengele's "research" at Auschwicz.

At least, it's OK so far. It's people like Mike Pence who oppose the black genocide who are marginalized, othered, etc. as if they were Nazi supporters gibbering away on 4 chan. Being "woke" really is a little weird.

William said...

I don't know any Nazis, KKK members, antFa's, or transgendered activists. If I did run across any, I would try to treat them with politeness and respect, not because they necessarily deserve such treatment but because that's the easiest way to negotiate life. Maybe if extremists spent more time in the company of sane people, they would moderate their views. That's at least as likely as sane people becoming Nazis. Why should we tolerate only certain kinds of intolerant people?

mandrewa said...

Hollywood made a heck of a lot of movies about World War II about virtually every subject under the sun.

Except they didn't.

For instance has anyone ever seen a movie about the beginning of World War II? About the invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Think about it, the beginning of World War II, how the whole thing started. That's one hell of a subject to skip for the two or so generations obsessed by World War II.

Or, who here has ever seen a movie or read a book about that astonishing period in history where virtually every Communist in the world supported Nazi Germany and then a couple of years later did a 180 when Nazi Germany betrayed its ally and invaded the Soviet Union?

No author is obligated to write a book they don't want to write, but it's an astonishing thing that apparently no author found the subject interesting. I mean what did the people that went through this, the million or so at least, that went through this, think? How do you make sense of that? What went on in their heads?

Or, who here has ever read a book or seen a movie about German universities in the Nazi era? An environment where, even before the Nazis came to power, the Nazis were incredibly popular. I mean so popular you apparently couldn't even find students that were opposed. I find that astonishing. I find that very hard to understand. Yet apparently I'm unusual. Because apparently no one else finds this interesting.

Imagine you're Jewish. Imagine you're attracted to left-wing ideas. Would you read the one essay Karl Marx wrote that has the word Jewish in it, On the Jewish Question?

If you read it, would you notice the many paragraphs where Marx expresses his extraordinary and vehement hatred for Jews? In particular would you notice the words with which Marx ends this essay where he says in effect that as long as there is one Jew alive in the world, true socialism is not possible.

I believe that virtually every Jew that was attracted to the left during that time must have read that essay. They knew about it. What I don't understand is what was going on in there heads that they were able to accept this. I mean I get that they were haters -- Marx's writing is saturated with hatred -- but somehow you'd think people would pause and examine what they are part of when the hatred is aimed so directly at their parents and relatives.

It's hard by the way now to find that essay -- the real thing. Apparently the whole of academia in the West has agreed to censor that essay. We talk about Holocast denial, and yet every Western university, seemingly, is an eager participant.

What is man really? What is our real nature?

On one level the subject is a particular period in history, on another level I think the subject is man and a particular nasty way of thinking that we are particular vulnerable to, and that has reared its head time and again in the past. Or so I suspect. That we want to deny about ourselves and so keep editing out of our history so that we forget it happened. And so it happens again. And I don't think the epicenter of this is 4chan or anywhere on the right, really. As I've said before I think the epicenter at our universities and the only reason this is not dead obvious is that we, that is humanity, have so successfully erased the details of the Nazi experience.

IgnatzEsq said...

"What was once permissible among hacktivists and their observers and hangers-on — hobnobbing with white supremacists, even if you disagreed — no longer is in an America where white supremacists are particularly emboldened, and when that movement has literally been stoked on 4chan. A decade ago, it was much easier to shrug off explicit invocations of Nazism and white supremacy online."

Whereas under Obama you could and would hobnob with Nazis and White Supremacists, under Trump this is no longer allowed. And this is a bad thing.

At least I think that's what the author is saying?

Char Char Binks said...

Iggy, what the author is saying is that we are no longer just responsible for what we say and for what people hear us say, we are responsible for what people tell us. Any unapproved opinions that we read or hear but do not report and denounce can and will be used against us.

Ralph L said...

It hasn't occurred to the Diversity Bullies and SJWs that the harder they enforce PC (and cry Racist! wolf), the harder normal people will push back--and that they're outnumbered.

wildswan said...

I read the books written by Helen MacInnes, a thriller writer of the Forties-Seventies and several of her books include episodes dealing with the Soviet-German treaty - While Still We Live and Neither Five Nor Three. Another book that is interesting is The Oaken Heart by Margery Allingham. She was a mystery writer but this book was an account of the approach of WW II as felt in her village (which was on the coast on Hitler's planned invasion route.) It's quite funny in many parts but all along you know that these people will soon be facing Dunkirk and possible invasion and the Blitz and their husbands and sons and daughters and friends going into the Armed Forces. You would say these villagers were so remote and peaceful that they couldn't understand the issues and wouldn't be able to face war - that they didn't have it in them - but they did.

But our situation seems to me to be more like the Second Coming of the Puritans. Pure thought is being absolutely required. And if you disagree, they hate you because you are prolonging the reign of injustice. But what they are trying to establish is a sort of selfish liberty, a deliberate hatefulness which can never truly found a "just and lasting peace." And their support for abortion which is resulting in black genocide even as they claim to be establishing justice for the blacks - would that it were so! - is just one example of their poorly founded thinking. Attacking men for their supposed nature is another. Attacking women who disagree with the pure interpretation of history is a third. Actually hating members of their own family while pretending they love strangers - no society will ever come out of that.

mandrewa said...

Thanks wildswan. I'll order those books and read them. But it since they are on Amazon there are reviews. I haven't read all 85 yet, but of the 20 or so I've read so far, none says a single thing about the Soviet Union.

Instead I run into statements like this: This is about the 10th time I've read this. It was written in 1944, and is an excellent read about how the Nazis' moved into Poland and controlled every Polish citizen.

So apparently someone can read this book ten times and still believe that the Nazis' controlled every Polish citizen. And that's quite a statement given that the Soviet Union actually overran and controlled something approaching half of Poland and that the Polish army surrendered to the Soviet army, not the German army. (And that the Soviets then executed everyone that surrendered.)

I'm sure you're right that Helen Macinnes did say something about it, but from the reviews it seems likely that it must have been mentioned only in passing.