January 12, 2018

"Never said anything derogatory about Haitians other than Haiti is, obviously, a very poor and troubled country."

"Never said 'take them out.' Made up by Dems. I have a wonderful relationship with Haitians. Probably should record future meetings - unfortunately, no trust!"

Tweets Donald Trump, just now.

Earlier this morning, there is this series of tweets:
The so-called bipartisan DACA deal presented yesterday to myself and a group of Republican Senators and Congressmen was a big step backwards. Wall was not properly funded, Chain & Lottery were made worse and USA would be forced to take large numbers of people from high crime.....

....countries which are doing badly. I want a merit based system of immigration and people who will help take our country to the next level. I want safety and security for our people. I want to stop the massive inflow of drugs. I want to fund our military, not do a Dem defund....

....Because of the Democrats not being interested in life and safety, DACA has now taken a big step backwards. The Dems will threaten “shutdown,” but what they are really doing is shutting down our military, at a time we need it most. Get smart, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made - a big setback for DACA!

Sadly, Democrats want to stop paying our troops and government workers in order to give a sweetheart deal, not a fair deal, for DACA. Take care of our Military, and our Country, FIRST!
So was the quote we were all hyperventilating about last night fake news?!

Why don't the news reports now include the fact that he has denied the quote? It's especially interesting that the NYT is printing the word "shithole," in full, repeatedly, when, as recently as 2 days ago, it was being coy about the line "suck my dick" in the movie "I, Tonya." It was writing things like "she gets frustrated and gives them an obscene directive involving male anatomy" and "'Monica Lewinsky?' she asked, incredulous, using a modified version of the same obscene phrase involving male anatomy that she had just said she would never use."

If it's that hard to write dirty words, why didn't the NYT exercise more care before assuming that this word was really said? You'd think the pressure to avoid fake news would also be weighing on decisions like this.

And has the NYT asked the other people who were in the room? Here are the names: Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, and Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, Representative Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California and the majority leader; Senator David Perdue, Republican of Georgia; Senator Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas; and Representative Robert W. Goodlatte, Republican of Virginia and the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. [ANSWER: Yes. And none would comment.]

Has any of these men come forward to confirm that Trump said what the NYT is reporting he said? Has the NYT called them? I guess they'd all say they're in a situation where they owe it to each other to keep a confidential meeting secret. But the President himself is talking about what was said, and I'm at the point of presuming that if no one who was there steps up and contradicts him, it means they are agreeing with him. So if someone who was there would say, the President really said it (or something like it), then they need to say so now, or I'm going to believe the President.

UPDATE: Senator Durbin speaks:
“In the course of his comments, [Trump] said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist,” Durbin told reporters on Friday. “I cannot believe in this history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday.”...

“You’ve seen the comments in the press,” Durbin said. “I’ve not seen one of them that’s inaccurate. To no surprise, the president started tweeting this morning, denying that he used those words. It is not true. He said these hate-filled things, and he said them repeatedly.”
That's a little cagey, dependent on what he's actually "seen" and what it means to say it's "inaccurate."

Please, reporters, if you are not doing this already, confront Durbin with the quote that has been in the press, and ask him: Did Trump say those specific words, verbatim? Can you confirm that is a verbatim quote?

Durbin is forefronting his interpretation: "things that were hate-filled, vile and racist." That's what's in Durbin's mind. (I don't accept that calling a country a "shithole" means that you have hatred toward the people or that you are racist toward them.)

UPDATE 2: Cotton and Perdue say they don't "recall" hearing the "shithole" statement. Why wouldn't they be sure? You'd think the line would stick out and be totally memorable... unless —— political guys talk like that a lot in private.

182 comments:

David Begley said...

How is it that the minority party can hold up a deal to build the wall and something on DACA?

I expect NO deal. The Dems want to use this as an issue to win in 2018 and then impeach Trump for being Trump.

Doodad said...

There were Dems at that meeting. Don't hear any of them confirming what he said. What a dilemma for them.

KJE said...

Am I to understand that the media failed to confirm the statement with any of the participants to the meeting?

roesch/voltaire said...

Front page of the NYT has his denial of quote for your information. Interesting to note that those present neither confirm or deny the statement.

Meade said...

Fake News Holes.

Kate said...

People getting the vapors over Trump saying something that we all think is #howyougottrump.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

roesch/voltaire said...

Front page of the NYT has his denial of quote for your information. Interesting to note that those present neither confirm or deny the statement.

Trump was present.

Nonapod said...

He honestly should just video record every meeting.

Chuck said...

Let's be clear; news outlets are using the full and explicit word, "shithole," because the real world is so nicely raw and vulgar. Trump hates these media outlets and lies about them, and lies substantively, and Trump lied about not using that word (he's obviously having to walk that back in whatever way that Trump walks back stuff like that), and so these media outlets with absolutely nothing to lose and not a shred of a single decent feeling toward Trump, feel entitled to quote him accurately.

It's an all-new President, and he's creating an all-new media.

I am so, so glad that I am one of Republicans who cut ties with him personally and have no need to defend him. It makes days like today so fun and so easy.

Bob Corker will be ordering champagne for lunch today.

tcrosse said...

It's unlikely that people go to the great trouble to immigrate here from Nice Countries. My immigrant forebears came here from what were, to them, shitholes.

dreams said...

The Dems and the liberals think they're winning on this but I think their deplorable behavior isn't going unnoticed by the deplorables. And I'm still not tired of all the winning.

Fernandistein said...

So was the quote we were all hyperventilating about last night fake news?!

I was hypoventilating.

The quotes, fake or not, are how regular people might speak, and I really don't think anyone is actually upset over the word "shitholes", they're just virtue-signalling their political correctness.

Chuck said...

Meade said...
Fake News Holes

Shame on you. Do you really believe Trump anymore, when he denies this sort of stuff? How many times has Trump been quoted by an anonymous source, saying something wildly stupid, racist, insulting, vulgar, insensitive, etc., only to have it be denied, saying that he was misquoted, or that the source was lying?

And you, Meade, thing it's "fake news"?

You believe that the guy who called whole countries "shitholes" in a conversation about immigration reform in the Oval Office with a bipartisan group of U.S. Senators, couldn't have been the guy who called the White House "a dump" to people at Trump National Golf Club? Remember that kerfuffle on these comments pages, Meade?

The President is just a shitty liar, Meade.

mockturtle said...

A rose by any other name....

buwaya said...

Coordinated propaganda.
The line goes out, with instructions, to all controlled outlets.
I keep telling you, you are not dealing with "normal".

AP said...

Chuck said:

"I am so, so glad that I am one of Republicans who cut ties with him personally and have no need to defend him."

What did he do that requires anyone to defend him? I suspect the vast majority in the US agree with the idea of merit-based immigration.

Gahrie said...

You'd think the pressure to avoid fake news would also be weighing on decisions like this.

Why? What price has the MSM paid for promoting fake news?

DKWalser said...

Chuck, how do you know what Trump said in the meeting? All we have is the word of a highly partisan Democrat (who has been known to shade the truth before) and Trump's denial. Oh, and we also have your absolute assurance that Trump said what the Democrat claims he said.

Chuck said...


The quotes, fake or not, are how regular people might speak, and I really don't think anyone is actually upset over the word "shitholes", they're just virtue-signalling their political correctness.

Then he should admit it. Own it. Own the word.

It isn't just a word; it is the fact that on substantive policy, the guy is a freaking train wreck, and he's now gone back on his pronouncement (that Althouse was thinking was such a great and commanding performance) that he's sign anything that a bipartisan group brought to him on immigration.

This isn't negotiation; it's chaos, all in the name of Trump's daily/hourly performance as a reality TV star.

james james said...

In their unguarded moments I bet many US politicians have referred to flyover states in worse terms than 'shitholes'.

Just a hunch.

- james james

Meade said...

"The President is just a shitty liar, Meade."

Please stop using your gratuitous vulgarities on this blog, Chuck.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

For the record, I have no problem with immigration from shithole countries, as long as the immigrants are willing to leave behind that which made their former country a shithole.

Likewise, as a New Hampshire resident, I would have no problem with immigration from shithole states, as long as the immigrants are willing to leave behind that which made their former states a shithole.

But of course, they never are.

Gahrie said...

I really wish our LLR friends were as tough on Democrats as they are Trump. If they were, Trump never would have happened.

But you gotta keep those cocktail invites coming somehow.....

Roy Jacobsen said...

Chuck said:
Trump lied about not using that word...

And you know that because...?

I am admittedly NOT a ravenous consumer of news, so I may have missed it, but has anyone who was actually at the meeting confirmed that Trump said "shithole?"

As the young folks say, "Pictures (or in this case, a recording) or it didn't happen." I've been lied to by unnamed sources too many times.

buwaya said...

This is a wartime system, very much like the Cold War Soviet or Western total information control operations, complete with "fake news", that was prevalent in both.

You continue to react to this like Americans, assuming sincerity, a conversation, but you should not. There is no sincerity, or if there is, it is incidental and comes from peripheral nobodies.
There is no "conversation".

You need to react, rather, like Soviet subjects. This blog, here, is actually in the category of Samizdat.

MikeR said...

The goal here is to make sure that nothing can get done in the Trump administration, because no one can say a word that won't make it to the New York Times. Who cares if he used a word or didn't use it - it was a private meeting. He can be quite sincere that he isn't attacking Haiti: he was talking - in a private meeting. Talking doesn't count.
One reason some of us voted for Trump was that we are sick of people policing _every single word we say_. And that no one can be a successful politician unless he started policing his words in his youth before youtube and smart phones came into existence. That is, that he never said a thing in his whole adult life.
The right response by a politician to this is the same as the right response to accusations of sexual depravities: "This was a private meeting and as such is nobody's business, #fakeNews. Go away and cover real news."

Meade said...

All The Hearsay Fit To Print.

Kevin said...

Damn you autocorrect!

Khesanh 0802 said...

Very nice, Meade.

iowan2 said...

So the facts to this point is, no identified person has make a claim about quote attributed to President Trump.
President Trump has stated he did not use vulgar language. Democrats in the room have refused to support the Fake News story.

That's just the facts.

Meade said...

CNN: The Most Slanderous Name In News.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"All The Hearsay Fit To Print."

Shitholes Live in Sunlight.

Chuck said...

DKWalser said...
Chuck, how do you know what Trump said in the meeting? All we have is the word of a highly partisan Democrat (who has been known to shade the truth before) and Trump's denial. Oh, and we also have your absolute assurance that Trump said what the Democrat claims he said.

Sometimes, the details of a story are the best part.

So the Haitian ambassador hears about this, from the news media. So what they do, is send an official diplomatic communique' to the State Department and ask for clarification. I love that kind of stuff. A specific question, on the record. Better yet, Sarah Sanders can go on the record today and admit it or deny it.

Again I say to TrumpWorld; if you like the words, you can keep the words. Own it, Mr. President! Admit that you said it and explain it in Trump-terms. Don't lie about it. Don't say that you didn't say it. Or, if your position really is that it was a terrible and malicious misquote, I want all of the Republican Senators who were there, to say that it never happened.

traditionalguy said...

Methinks the Great Impeachment take down has sputtered out, until the only charge left over is " Conduct Unbecoming a President."

Kevin said...

Then he should admit it. Own it. Own the word.

The word is not the quote. And the quote doesn’t include the context of the discussion in which it was made.

The media is reporting the word and then reading his inner thoughts to crate a context.

Were you a lawyer you wouldn’t demand your client to own the word.

Were you a lawyer you’d rightly object.

John Borell said...

NYT: "Mr. Trump made the remarks at a meeting with lawmakers at the White House, according to people with direct knowledge of the conversation."

Name names.

Were the people with "direct knowledge" in the meeting? Did they hear Trump use the word?

I'll use the word, this is shitty reporting from what's becoming a shithole newspaper.

Meade said...

Chuck, that's better. No gratuitous profanity. I just knew you could do it.

Drago said...

I already knew what LLR Chuck would be on about today, as I had already perused the fever swamps of the left and, as always, self-described LLR Chuck is once again, "accidentally", completely and utterly aligned with the democrat talking points of the day.

Unexpectedly.

It's almost as if the dems/lefties and their self-described LLR operational allies need to keep the focus off what is becoming impossible to avoid in the real world: the dems weaponized oppo research and abused the investigative and national security apparatus of the United States for the sole purpose of attacking a domestic political opponent and then attempting to undermine a duly elected President of the United States.

In addition to Chuck and all his dem/lefty pals attempting to browbeat Trump into accepting the democrat plan for basically unlimited immigration from s***holes all over world, that is the real intent.

Whenever dem malfeasance is in the air, you will find LLR on full-deflection mode.

You should feel free to draw relevant conclusions.

Unknown said...

everyone knows that haiti is a shithole. so this is somehow indicative of being racist. oh, ok. north korea is a shithole too, except have good military and tech.

cuba is a shithole, but allegedly good doctors. syria is a shithole, but they have a good dates to export. yugolslavia is a shithhole. if some ways, some people would say that london is a shithole. baltimore definitely a shithole; really no dispute on that. sorrento, florida--populated by trailer parks and white addicts is a shithole too. I would not want them to move to my neighborhood.

I could go on. does not make me a racist.

buwaya said...

There truly is a monolithic "them", and a dispersed, disorganized "you". You are the underdogs, the weaker party, the potentially insurrectionist. "They" really are plotting and maneuvering against you - not just "political" enemies, but you. This should be profoundly unsettling.

I get that this is alien. To a degree you have to have seen, or lived, in an openly oppressive system with an obviously controlled media to "get" it. I did, in systems that were much more crude than this, but of the same category. Such a background is good training. The saving grace in those cases was a powerful extended family-and-religion based culture that mitigated the evils. You don't have that.

You cannot be paranoid or cynical enough. Nothing is as it seems.

mockturtle said...

Per buwaya: You need to react, rather, like Soviet subjects. This blog, here, is actually in the category of Samizdat.

I'm currently reading a biography of Luther. When the HRE [at the demand of the pope] ordered that Luther's writings be burned, many printers continued to print and sell them. Not so much because they were sympathetic to his cause but because his writings sold so well.


anti-de Sitter space said...

"if you like the words, you can keep the words. Own it, Mr. President!"

The WH already did do that w/ the first statement yesterday. No denial re these words.

Today is lie mode.



Mac McConnell said...

So let me get this correct, a cowardly anonymous source ( fairy godmother ) in a private behind closed doors meeting says President Trump used the words "shit hole". A real person President of the United States Donald J Trump denies saying it.

Cowardly anonymous sources ( fairy godmothers ) say a lot of bull shit that turns out to swamp dreams.

rehajm said...

Amazing how quick was the pivot from Trump is insane to Trump is racist. They really needed to change the narrative after that broadcasted meeting, Didn’t they?

Days after the election they gave themselves permission to ignore basic standards of journalism. They want you to believe they are still being journalists.

gspencer said...

Answer DJT's question, Why should we take the uneducated, the unskilled, those unwilling to assimilate (because of their religion) into this country?

For certain we don't need people of that sort.

anti-de Sitter space said...

Related news: did folks know that the new Numi works w/ Alexa?

That's F-ing awesome.

IMHO.

John Pickering said...

Sen. Durbin: Pres. Trump "said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist ... I cannot believe that in the history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday."

Sen. Durbin: "The president started tweeting this morning, denying that he used those words. It is not true. He said these hate-filled things, and he said them repeatedly."

Ann believes the president, and shows no understanding of how reporters work. She says she is some sort of lawyer, but betrays a sad inability to identify evidence. Maybe, put in a call to Sen. Durbin's office? (202) 224-2152.

Seeing Red said...

What a surprise it was a bad bill.

Not.

Roy Jacobsen said...

In other words, Chuck, when it comes to how you know Trump said "shithole countries," you've got nothing.

But Trump is supposed to "own it."

OK.

Kevin said...

What words Durbin?

Not your characterization. The actual words so we can decide for ourselves.

The words you felt were unnecessary to put into your statement.

rehajm said...

For people who make their living with words they sure struggle with language. Assume he said it (a stretch until substantial evidence is presented to the contrary). Shithole describes place not people yet Trump is racist for calling a place the thing?

buwaya said...

The "pivot" is uniform, of course.
And immediate.
What does that tell you?

In an openly controlled media, with old tech, you would open the papers, a half dozen morning papers, and each would have a variant of the same headline, regardless of its journalistic interest.

mockturtle said...

You cannot be paranoid or cynical enough. Nothing is as it seems.

I have noticed that my morning TV channel--FOX Business Network--has started including more Hollywood news and movie promotions since Disney bought them. Still enjoy Stuart Varney but am uneasy about the future. While I assume it's a financial decision, the use of bread and circuses still works to distract citizens from the machinations of the power elite.

Kevin said...

“These hate-filled things” is not a quote.

Purposely.

anti-de Sitter space said...

BTW, DJT was complimenting people from these other countries. For DJT a shithole is a beautiful gold plated throne.

buwaya said...

And PB&J is a partisan of your enemies.

AllenS said...

The Haitians trying to get into this country will be the first ones to tell you that Haiti is a shithole.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Or, if your position really is that it was a terrible and malicious misquote, I want all of the Republican Senators who were there, to say that it never happened.


Nobody cares what you want, Chuck. Not even your mother or your dog.


he's now gone back on his pronouncement (that Althouse was thinking was such a great and commanding performance) that he's sign anything that a bipartisan group brought to him on immigration.

This isn't negotiation; it's chaos, all in the name of Trump's daily/hourly performance as a reality TV star.


Embrace the power of "and," Chuck.

I don't know if you're stupid or you're just so mad you keep stepping on the same rake, over and over and over again. But you are fun to watch.

rehajm said...

Presidential standards regarding shitholes was set when President LBJ made people attend meetings in that bathroom while he was on the shithole.

Caligula said...

Well, yes, you're not supposed to notice that the average immigrant from Somalia becomes a long-term welfare recipient, and also has a far greater probability of going Jihadi than an immigrant from Norway.

No doubt there can and should be neutral criteria for admitting a would-be immigrant from either country. But, is it truly racist to point out what everyone can see: that some immigrants do far more for the host country than others, and that there is a large correlation between country-of-origin and economic success and willingness and ability to assimilate to the host country's social norms?

Seeing Red said...

It’s Turban.

So what?

Like he hadn’t said stuff.

Yes Trump is going to have to record the meetings.

Dems had an opportunity but the couldn’t help themselves.

mockturtle said...

I do agree with Chuck that, if Trump identified Haiti as a 'shithole country' he should admit it because, both literally and figuratively, it is true.

BTW, Woodrow Wilson was a genuine racist. And, of course, a Democrat.

rhhardin said...

Trump is missing his best argument.

I am president of America and negotiate deals that benefit America.

The other countries negotiate deals that benefit them.

If we find a deal where we both benefit, then a deal is done. If not, not.

I negotiate for America.

TreeJoe said...

Every major media outlet I've examined has reported this as "the president said."

I would love - and value - a media outlet who instead reported something like,

"Major media outlets today are reporting on an unverified account of an immigration meeting published by the washington post. The WaPo quoted unnamed sources, not in the room, as the President saying ....

Professional journalistic standards in such a situation dictate that multiple anonymous sources, including those who witnessed the event firsthand. We have not observed those journalistic standards being met in this instance, and thus the WaPo and other outlets should be considered to be reporting unverified, anonymously sourced allegations at this time."

...

Not a single person who is confirmed to have been in the room has supported this, and the WaPo reporting does not meet basic journalistic standards for reporting something as confirmed. And yet there has probably been 12 straight hours of first page reporting in newspaper, TV, and websites on all major news outlets of this as something that happened.

This is a disgusting time for american news.

Mac McConnell said...

Once we've helped our own American citizens living in our our shit hole inner cities and the rural poor, then maybe I'll fucking be concerned about this DACA and Dreamers Democrat plan to insure future Democrat votes. For all their rhetoric Democrats don't give a shit about improving the poor American citizens conditions, either in economic progress or education. Democrat policies spread the poverty and increase it.

Seeing Red said...

Dickie Turban is retiring.

Trump should appoint him ambassador to Haiti.

Kevin said...

Trump should appoint him ambassador to Haiti.

Snort!

Big Mike said...

Do you really believe Trump anymore, when he denies this sort of stuff?

Yes, actually. Where I come from putting words in people’s mouth is an old and too-frequently successful tactic.

How many times has Trump been quoted by an anonymous source, saying something wildly stupid, racist, insulting, vulgar, insensitive, etc., only to have it be denied, saying that he was misquoted, or that the source was lying?

I’m quite sure you can tell us, but the real question is what fraction of the time Trump was right and the anonymous source the liar? And that you will not say.

buwaya said...

The general thrust of the immigration scheme DJT wanted is quite similar to those of, say, Australia, New Zealand, and even Canada. All are based largely on skills and gaps in the labor force. Or much more so than is the case in the effective results of the legal immigration system of the US.

The H1b system, whatever its other faults, is actually a workaround of the defects of the US immigration system.

The biggest and most controversial parts of the leakage in those countries (Australia, etc.), that lets in the unqualified or otherwise troublesome, is "asylum".

Hunter said...

Chuck said...
Shame on you. Do you really believe Trump anymore, when he denies this sort of stuff? How many times has Trump been quoted by an anonymous source, saying something wildly stupid, racist, insulting, vulgar, insensitive, etc., only to have it be denied, saying that he was misquoted, or that the source was lying?

Do you really still believe every outrageous thing reported third-hand from an anonymous source when so many other outrageous things have been reported and turned out to be completely made up?

The evidence is some anonymous person who wasn't at the meeting claims Trump said a thing, and Trump denies saying it. If he really didn't say it, how would the evidence look different?

Drago said...

"Today's John Pickering": Sen. Durbin: "The president started tweeting this morning, denying that he used those words. It is not true. He said these hate-filled things, and he said them repeatedly."

Ann believes the president, and shows no understanding of how reporters work. She says she is some sort of lawyer, but betrays a sad inability to identify evidence. Maybe, put in a call to Sen. Durbin's office? (202) 224-2152."

Hypothetical 2012 John Pickering:
Sen. Reid: Mitt Romney has not paid taxes for 10 years. I know it from a very good source.

Ann believes Romney, and shows no understanding of how reporters work. She says she is some sort of lawyer, but betrays a sad inability to identify evidence. Maybe, put in a call to Sen. Reid's office? (202) 224-xxxx.


Sorry Johnny-boy. Too many lies told by too many of your trusty dems and lefty media.

Literally video or audio evidence or direct Trump admission, or it didn't happen.

You can go back to your dog-eared copy of the hoax weaponized oppo research "dossier" now.

Drago said...

mockturtle: "BTW, Woodrow Wilson was a genuine racist. And, of course, a Democrat."

LOL

Byrd was an actual, no kidding, "Exalted Cyclops" in the KKK and was democrat senate leader!!

But he was a democrat, so its all good.

iowan2 said...

Private companies across America have announce $bonuses of over $2,000,000. Those are just a couple of dozen large employers that have name recognition. 10 of thousands of smaller companies have done the same. That's a one time stimulus. Does not take into account companies like Wal-Mart that raised entry level pay over 20%. And as you bump entry level +20% the rest of your wage categories also have to go up. That's a permanent stimulus. But shit hole. Obama had his secretary of the UN unmasking names form the opposing political party, its all good, because shit hole. Phony opposition research, from Russian sources paid for by Clinton's wife's campaign is used to garner FISA warrants to spy on the Trump Campaign, all is good because shit hole. Obama allowed terrorist that fund their murder and mayhem thru selling drugs in the the US to continue, by halting a criminal investigation called Cassandra from interdicting those drugs. Shit hole.
Shit hole
I wonder exactly what the shit hole really is. The media that can only use un-named sources?

rhhardin said...

The word is that Trump said shithouse countries, not shithole.

More visual.

The Vault Dweller said...

I wonder how many people who are now filled with moral outrage at the thought of Trump calling certain countries shitholes, were also similarly outraged when they heard a colleague say or perhaps read an article that described a person growing up in a shithole town in the middle of nowhere America, and dreadfully enduring it until they finally moved to civilization in an urban center. My guess is that not many of cosmopolitan elite bat an eye if they heard or read that, or would bat an eye if they heard or read it in the future. However I also bet that many of the people who currently don't care about the possibility Trump referred to some nations as shitholes were deeply upset or would be deeply upset at the idea of someone referring to a little town in the middle of nowhere America as a shithole. Though if we are just assessing the two descriptions for accuracy, my sense is that a shithole town in America is orders of magnitude better than a shithole nation on the planet.

Chuck said...

Hunter said...
...
...

The evidence is some anonymous person who wasn't at the meeting claims Trump said a thing, and Trump denies saying it. If he really didn't say it, how would the evidence look different?

But Trump has NOT denied saying "shot holes," right? He hasn't denied it. No Republican at the meeting denied it.

This is the kind of thing I don't want to let go of. Trump always gets off on these things; he lets his True Believers think that it was the right thing to say, whether he said it or not. He does formalistic denials to the media and on the record.

I want to get right in Trump's grille and question him on whether he said it or not. Yes or no; and we are going to check with others who were there.

I am so very tired of this game where Trump says stuff like this and then there is no accountability about whether it is true or not. These things happen about once a fortnight now, right?

Drago said...

Hunter: "Do you really still believe every outrageous thing reported third-hand from an anonymous source when so many other outrageous things have been reported and turned out to be completely made up?"

Believe them?!

LOL

Our LLR Chuck is happy to work with his dem allies to make them up!

Even better is when LLR Chuck (similar to lefty Inga...hmmmm) goes into full-blown "mind-reading" mode!

That's usually when he lets the mask fall completely off.

Again, we are sitting on a Watergatex1000 AND the dems and their lefty/LLR allies have nothing to run on in 2018, so it's time to crank up the Brand New, Never Been Tried Before, Completely Unique in Our Political Experience tactic of branding the Republican as a unreconstructed racist.

Along with being a Nazi white supremacist misogynist.

Because after labeling every singe republican those very things for 60 years, this time its gotta work.

Its just gotta....

Fabi said...

Potty mouth Chuck voluntarily voted for Trump. He didn't have to -- there were at least five other choices on his Michigan ballot, as well as the no-vote option; yet Chuck made an affirmative effort to support Trump.

Chuck said...

lol. "shot holes"

Yeah, it was the auto-correct of "shit holes."

And btw, Meade; I don't think this is a good day -- of all days -- for you to troll me on the subject of "gratuitous profanity."

Drago said...

LLR and "Accidental Leftist" Chuck seems to find himself stuck in an intellectual and psychological s***-hole.

I hope he can claw his way out.

His dem/lefty operational allies are depending on him!

LOL

Mac McConnell said...

Who gives a fuck if President of the United States Donald J Trump said, "shit hole". The answer is his deranged enemies. The same folks who support Iran, the Palestinians, pussy hats, nasty women tees, Linda Sarsour, open borders, La Raza, BLM, ANTIFA, people who think history started today at sun up, the list is goes on and on of self hating Marxist Americans .

TheGiantPeach said...

Trump has almost literally been hoisted by his own petard. Henceforth, he will be known as the "shithole president," and no amount of damage control can prevent that.

Chuck said...

Fabi said...
Potty mouth Chuck voluntarily voted for Trump. He didn't have to -- there were at least five other choices on his Michigan ballot, as well as the no-vote option; yet Chuck made an affirmative effort to support Trump.

Actually, I (sort of) didn't. I voted what was allowed in Michigan; a straight-party vote. I effectively voted for every Republican, at the top of the ballot. I didn't have to put my mark next to the names of Trump and Pence.

And now I am virtue-signaling my way through TrumpWorld. Trump is an asshole. I voted for the asshole. He was the least-worst option.

Mike Sylwester said...

President Trump said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist

Senator Durbin would say that about practically any speech given by any Republican politician.

Drago said...

"Bowe Bergdahl Republican" Chuck: "And btw, Meade; I don't think this is a good day -- of all days -- for you to troll me on the subject of "gratuitous profanity."

I'd say this is great day for trolling you on your written evidence-backed gratuitous profanity as you continue to insist everyone accept the non-evidence backed claims of proven lefty liars in the media and dem party.

Again, video or audio evidence, a Trump specific admission, or a single non-Trump hating republican who was present backs up the charge...or it didn't happen.

Sorry LLR Chuck, I hope my comment doesn't send you scurrying back to your Rachel Maddow blow up doll.

I heard you had one. I would tell you who told me that, but my sources must remain anonymous.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "Actually, I (sort of) didn't. I voted what was allowed in Michigan; a straight-party vote. I effectively voted for every Republican, at the top of the ballot"

There is no actual evidence of this.

Drago said...

And since George W Bush won in 2000, every democrat/lefty and many of their Lifelong Republican allies have called US states that vote republican far, far worse.

Chuck said...

Mac McConnell said...
Who gives a fuck if President of the United States Donald J Trump said, "shit hole".
...

Then in that case, the Trump Administration should own it. Put out a press release; identify the list of shit holes. Do a press conference and talk about the shit holes.

Own it.

And don't lie about it. Don't try to weasel out of it.

Mac McConnell said...

On second thought, President of the United State Donald J Trump should invite me to one of those private meetings with those illegal immigrant taint licking Democrats. I will speak truth to power, fuck them.

I see where Gov.Terence McAuliffe and actor DeNero both have said they would "deck" President of the United States Donald J Trump if they ever met him. I'd invite them to the White House, of course they both would be too chicken shit to come. If they did come I'd knee cap them both with a nine iron and say they attacked me. Fuck them!

Mike Sylwester said...

President Trump said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist

Senator Durbin would say the same about the Republican Party's published political platform.

Mac McConnell said...

Earth to Chuck this is politics, not a confessional.

Darrell said...

Dick Durbin supposedly said "shithole countries." Chuck Schumer attributed the quote to Trump. Polls are showing that the majority of Americans agree with that assessment and therefore think they agree with Trump. The Acme dynamite blows up in Democrat faces once again.

Mac McConnell said...

Drago
The Democrats called Eisenhower a Nazi sympathizer when he ran.

Drago said...

"Accidental Leftist" Chuck: "Then in that case, the Trump Administration should own it. Put out a press release; identify the list of shit holes. Do a press conference and talk about the shit holes."

LOL

LLR Chuck has become a caricature of himself!



roesch/voltaire said...

Look Trump has a black thing along with a tendency to lie just look at his accusations against Obama for the London embassy deal which was put in place by Bush —he just can’t help himself

Seeing Red said...


Senator Durbin would say the same about the Republican Party's published political platform


Probably has said it.

jaydub said...

I've been to Haiti and to Somalia. Also, Ethiopia and Mali among others. They're shitholes. You can quote me on that. Americans don't travel enough to understand the third world, hence the arguments here as to whether someone is lying about calling a shithole a shithole, rather than whether the identified shithole is, in fact, a shithole. It is.

Drago said...

It seems an appropriate time to revisit this spot on evaluation of our LLR Chuck

Laslo Spatula said...
From his earlier post, we see that Chuck commands a Grand Stage. I do not mean this facetiously: he obviously puts steadfast thought into his comments, and displays a depth of knowledge that can be quite impressive

Yet he is disliked by many here, and responds like the proverbial bull to any and all flags. He is proud of his staunch values, and finds those who fall short worthy of rebuke. Then, for me, it finally clicked:

Chuck is Inspector Javert, and Trump is his Jean Valjean.

The figurative Bread that Trump stole was the Republican Nomination.

HE WILL NOT LET TRUMP GET AWAY WITH THIS.

Hugo's work is a weighty beast, so I'll cheat and go to a song lyric from the "Les Miserables" musical:

Damned if I'll live in the debt of a thief!
Damned if I'll yield at the end of the chase.
I am the law and the law is not mocked
I'll spit his pity right back in his face
There is nothing on earth that we share
It is either Valjean or Javert!

Sound familiar?

Javert is the 'Real Republican' in a time of tumult. Rules are changing, but Javert is steadfast, unyielding -- BREAD HAS BEEN STOLEN -- for a thousand-plus pages or so. Until:

"...Javert's struggle to accept the ways in which the laws he spent his life upholding may be unjust is what leads to his eventual suicide..." (from Wiki)

Bread for thought.

I am Laslo.

3/23/17, 9:45 PM

Achilles said...

Turbin Durbin is a traitor. The people that vote for him should be ashamed.

Chuck said...

Althouse: "Please, reporters, if you are not doing this already, confront Durbin with the quote that has been in the press, and ask him: Did Trump say those specific words, verbatim? Can you confirm that is a verbatim quote?"


AMEN!
Please, reporters, do that. Do not stop at Durbin. Ask absolutely everyone. On the record. And, do not forget to ask Trump. Ask Trump. On the record. On live TV if possible.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck: "AMEN!
Please, reporters, do that. Do not stop at Durbin. Ask absolutely everyone. On the record. And, do not forget to ask Trump. Ask Trump. On the record. On live TV if possible."

LOL

Oh right, "AMEN" to confronting the dems....which you forgot to mention until Ann shamed you into "remembering" that you should have asked for that upfront along with your "Javert-y" rants.

You can't make this stuff up.

What a buffoon.

exiledonmainstreet said...


tcrosse said:
It's unlikely that people go to the great trouble to immigrate here from Nice Countries. My immigrant forebears came here from what were, to them, shitholes."

Exactly. Ireland in 1848 was a shithole. So was Southern Italy. Both countries are lovely. You can't eat the scenery.

My grandparents were from Prague, one of the world's most beautiful cities. But it was a shithole under Nazism and Communism because it wasn't free.

The big difference is America needed lots of unskilled labor then. The country was both expanding westward and industrializing. America had also lost 600,000 young men in the Civil War. Ellis Island wasn't in operation because "that's who we are as a people."

I still have not heard a logical explanation from pro-amnesty liberals and Establishment Republicans as to why we now need a massive influx of unskilled, illiterate people.


Fernandistein said...

When the NSA releases their recordings of the meeting we'll have to figure out how much of those were faked.

Meade said...

Chuck, you seem... constipated this morning.

Drago said...

tcrosse: "It's unlikely that people go to the great trouble to immigrate here from Nice Countries."

An exception to that rule will be continuing exodus of Jews from Europe to safer havens in Israel (yes, actually safer for jews to move to Israel than remain in many parts of Europe), the US/Canada (for now, until Inga and Chucks allies do to us what they've done in Europe), possibly Asia/Australia.

Hunter said...

Without regard to whether Durbin is actually saying Trump used the vaunted words or whether Trump actually did:

Doesn't seizing this opportunity illustrate that it's the Democrats who benefit from no deal? Durbin is supposed to be one of the champions of the deal so why is he stirring the pot?

Democrats do not want Republicans, and especially do not want Trump, to get credit for fixing the DACA problem. The public might begin to perceive that Trump is not a crazy xenophobic bigot. DACA is by far the most sympathetic part of the immigration issue, and once it's off the table it will be harder to do what Democrats call "comprehensive immigration reform" (i.e. mass amnesty)

I suppose Republicans might fear a backlash over DACA legislation, and maybe they would get one, but... I just don't perceive much anger over that specific issue. It will depend on what gets done (or doesn't) about the broader issue. If Republicans don't screw the pooch on security or broader amnesty I don't think many of the base will have a major gripe about DACA.

Drago said...

LLR Chuck always wants to get up into Trump and his teams "Grille" and put them on the record, under oath, finger in the chest, blah blah blah internet tough guy/expert pose.

But he is utterly uninterested in ever putting any dem/lefty in that same hypothetical circumstance.

Our gentle readers should feel free to draw obvious conclusions.

David said...

I think the immigration issue is a long term dead weight for the Republicans to be carrying around. With respect to this year's election, Republicans will be better off if they can just run on the economy. That's a powerful issue for them and continued immigration argument will diminish its relative impact.

Drago said...

David: "I think the immigration issue is a long term dead weight for the Republicans to be carrying around. With respect to this year's election, Republicans will be better off if they can just run on the economy. That's a powerful issue for them and continued immigration argument will diminish its relative impact."


So.......the republicans should (insert your answer here)......

Hunter said...

Durbin decided to portray the meeting as suddenly becoming a racist hate-fest after we (some of us) watched Trump for an hour being extremely agreeable about relief for DACA and even being open to broad immigration reform with Democratic input.

We are supposed to believe the "real" Trump still hates brown people and wants to stop all immigration.

It seems to me a person who wanted to sabotage the whole deal Trump was trying to foster would be doing this. A person who was committed to it would not be. Do we not now suspect it was one of Durbin's people who leaked this story in the first place?

Tim at large said...

Funny how lefty commenters keep saying Europeans don’t want to emigrate here. I have worked for extended times in the UK, and even France, for a while. I can tell you that even in my limited experience, such people exist. It’s just that immigration is limited from these countries. Lots of capable people are shut out of the economy there by their ossified, basically what amounts to a caste system, of jobs for life. Who is going to take a chance on Jean Luc, here, with that unfortunate blot on his academic history, if once he is hired, one may never fire him? Mostly though, I think the French people I knew, were jealous of how easy it was to start a business here.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Drago said: "An exception to that rule will be continuing exodus of Jews from Europe to safer havens in Israel (yes, actually safer for jews to move to Israel than remain in many parts of Europe)"

Even Paris and London can be shitholes if you are Jewish and you have to worry about being attacked in your synagogue or kosher restaurant or when you are out on the street with a yarmulke on.

Of course, it's not only Jews that have to worry in Europe.

MikeR said...

Concerning Update from Durbin: Huh. I had thought that Anne's suggestion wouldn't work, because no decent person would comment on private words said at a private meeting. Certainly not a Republican.
Seems I was wrong. So I'd like a new question asked: Were you the source for the news story, and do you think that's okay?
In any case, Durbin and any others like him should be informed that they will no longer be involved in negotiations with the President, as they don't understand the basic discretion that negotiations require.
Wow.

Big Mike said...

Good catch, Althouse, can Durbin confirm that Trump used the word “shithole” as an adjective with respect to specific countries? I’d go even further, and ask Durbin what, precisely, Trump said that was vile, hate-filled, and racist. Because there are people, like nearly all Democrat politicians, not to mention Inga, ARM, Toothless, and Chuck, who think everything Trump says is vile, hate-filled, and racist, right down to “Good morning, how are you?”

Angel-Dyne said...

John Pickering: Sen. Durbin: Pres. Trump "said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist ... I cannot believe that in the history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday."

Sen. Durbin: "The president started tweeting this morning, denying that he used those words. It is not true. He said these hate-filled things, and he said them repeatedly."


Lol. Am I the only one who can't stop laughing (to keep from crying) that grown American men, of alleged normal intelligence and tolerably compos mentis, national leaders for cryin' out loud, talk like this? People in power talk like this, yet nobody notices or analyzes it. Look at it. It's extreme. It's not "the president's insulting and vulgar language is disgusting". It's "hate-filled, vile, and racist". Think about that. Not just the president, but any American who ever called a shithole a shithole (most of us?) is being "hate-filled, vile, and racist".

Do people really not notice how crazy this stuff is? Look at it. It's far more inflammatory than "Haiti is a shit-hole". Really not notice how much more "kicked up a notch", and more common, this type of rhetoric is, from "normal" politicians (not just from known comic-relief dumbshits and avowed extremists)?

Sure, politicians talk shit all the time, but, geez, are Durbin and other pols who talk like this entirely lacking in any sense of their own dignity? ("Yes, I do take my public-speaking cues from mentally-unbalanced tumblr SJWS, why do you ask?") To whom is this Margaret Dumont act directed? For the sake of the nation I hope this is entirely cynical, because it's downright disturbing if Durbin, to any degree, buys into the crazy-talk coming out of his pie-hole.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Tim at large said...
Funny how lefty commenters keep saying Europeans don’t want to emigrate here. I have worked for extended times in the UK, and even France, for a while. I can tell you that even in my limited experience, such people exist. It’s just that immigration is limited from these countries."

My doctor is from Italy and is now a citizen. He had to wait 7 years to get a green card.

Tim at large said...

Remember that time that the congressman accused Tea Party people of spitting on him? It turned out to be a case of “say it, don’t spray it” based on the video, but the Democrats and the press had no problem going with the story that implied intentional spitting.

Drago said...

Hunter: "It seems to me a person who wanted to sabotage the whole deal Trump was trying to foster would be doing this. A person who was committed to it would not be. Do we not now suspect it was one of Durbin's people who leaked this story in the first place?"

Shhhhh. Way to logical at this hour.

Let's let the lefties and their pal LLR Chuck keep wandering down this path for awhile.....

.....and here comes the inevitable "clarification" from jake Tapper that maybe, just maybe, yesterday's and this morning's breathless reporting might have been a teensy weensy bit off...

https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2018/01/12/cnn-maybe-trump-didnt-actually-say-weve-saying-said/

Gee, possible conflation of different statements by Trump at different times, sprinkle in a little wishful thinking and then a bit more 'what the dems need for November' and VOILA!!

LLR Chuck and apparently John Pickering Fake News Heaven!

Chuck said...

Althouse: "Durbin is forefronting his interpretation: "things that were hate-filled, vile and racist." That's what's in Durbin's mind. (I don't accept that calling a country a 'shithole' means that you have hatred toward the people or that you are racist toward them.)"

I agree. I don't care about anybody's interpretation of what is hateful and what isn't. Nobody is going to agree about their feelings concerning Trump.

All that I want to know is whether he said it, and the reason I want to know is because I believe that Trump probably said it, and most of all because Trump denies that he said it.

Did Trump say, "shit holes"? Yes or no.

Everybody can have their own opinions. Everybody can't have their own facts.

Mark said...

Durbin could have said that Trump specifically used that word. But Durbin did not say that. Instead, he characterized Trump's words. And that is telling, suggesting that the word in question is itself a characterization and not a quote. That is, Trump did not use that word -- rather, Durbin used it. It's Durbin's word.

Drago said...

LOL

Tappers final tweet: "Again, I’m not saying this is better. Just that this is what happened, per my source." (see link above)

Here we go again.

"Fake But Accurate"
"If it rings true, it IS true!"

These lefty/dems/LLR's are certainly consistent, aren't they?

Tim at large said...

I am seriously thinking of moving to France. There was an Englishman once who became an expatriate, moving to France, and he explained that it was easier to watch his country go to hell from a distance. When asked, “Isn’t France going to hell too?”, he said, yeah, but he doesn’t love France the way he loves England.

Drago said...

Read Tappers Twitter feed to get the walkback.

Trump used the term but not in the context that was originally conveyed by LLR Chuck's beloved lying media.

You knew that was coming, didn't you?

The only thing I'm surprised about is that Chucks media pals didn't toss in some reference to the "dossier".

They are falling down on the job! I would expect LLR Chuck to pick up that slack for them, STAT!

Mark said...

And this hardly looks like a "fun" and "easy" day for our resident mouth-foamer.

bonkti said...

What's in a name? A rose by any other name smells as sweet.

Drago said...

Hey Althouse, if you are feeling particularly masochistic today, perhaps in a bit, after all the walkback "clarifications" wind their way around the world (never to catch up with the lefty/MSM lies that LLR Chuck so adores) a new thread with the clarifications stipulated to reset the discussion baseline would be appropriate.

Drago said...

Mark: "And this hardly looks like a "fun" and "easy" day for our resident mouth-foamer."

He hasn't had a fun or easy day since the dems lost control of the House and the Senate.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Trump tweeted he used tough language “but this was not the language used”. He is not denying he said shithole, he’s denying he said “this”.

Dude1394 said...

A shithole is a shithole, no amount of perfume and weasel words will change it. I doubt Trump called Haiti or it's people a shithole, no more than he called all illegal immmigrants criminals.

The democrat-media party is on point today.

George Spix said...

How much of this is choice of words? Instead of S.H. country the words were S.H. Government? After all there is nothing stopping those people from doing as well as the best first world nations in the world themselves. If they don't like it, change their leadership. By violence if necessary. Peaceful or armed resistance. Its not our or the first world fault if they live in a S.H. Country, post WW2 and eradication of slavery for a few generations, and reunification of countries torn apart by WW2 and imperialism, that''s all long behind us. Fix it yourself.Die for your beliefs and a better future for your children. You are every bit as good as any first world country.Copy them. Don't ask for demand help. The Worst sort of racism.

Unknown said...

“I cannot believe in this history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday.”

Apparently he's never heard of or read the stories about LBJ.

-sw

Angel-Dyne said...

Chuck: I am so very tired of this game where Trump says stuff like this and then there is no accountability about whether it is true or not. These things happen about once a fortnight now, right?

If you're "so very tired" of these trivial little games, why don't you just ignore them and discuss the real issues? You know, the stuff you claim you want to talk about? Haiti is a shithole. That Haiti is a shithole is an issue. Who called Haiti a shithole, or who denied calling Haiti a shithole, is gossip. Gossip-columnists (most MSM journalists these days) want you to click. Click, rat-addict, click.

To your credit, you do occasionally produce a comment on policy worth reading. Shame how your click-bait habit interferes with that.

PB said...

A Chicago politician getting the vapors over "vulgar" language? Ok. Someone hold my beer while I explore the richness of vulgarity to and about Dick Durban.

Mac McConnell said...

"Did Trump say, "shit holes"? Yes or no."

He might have said "shit hole" but did he say "Haiti was a shit hole" or did he say, "This Illegal immigrant taint licking plan offered by the Gang of Six Illegal immigrant taint lickers is a shit hole non-starter". Or maybe he said, "Illegal immigrant taint licking Dick "our troops are SS Storm Troopers" Durbin is a shit hole". Of course it's all true regardless.

pacwest said...

When you know you don't have a leg to stand on regarding policy this is what you do. Make it about some inconsequential comment rather than discuss policy. It was pretty obvious from the Tuesday meeting the Dem's weren't interested in anything other than a "clean bill". When logic isn't on your side deflect. Make it about an impolite adjective President Trump used. Call it racist. Sometimes you just want to grab idiots by the shoulders and say Wake Up! But that would be impolite.

Bruce Hayden said...

“Sen. Durbin: Pres. Trump "said things that were hate-filled, vile and racist ... I cannot believe that in the history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday."”

As someone above pointed out, LBJ took profanity AND racism to a much higher level when he was in the WH. Talked about getting the votes of the N*g***s for all time. Didn’t call them Blacks, or even Negros. But repeated, and constantly, called them N*g***s, likely even from the WH shithole, which he, apparently, routinely used as a meeting place, in what anyone else would have considered vulgar circumstances.

But I think the more interesting thing was his use of “hate-filled, vile and racist”. I think that is some sort of left wing coded speech. Plus a bit of virtue signaling. You hear a lot about dog whistling and the like on the right from Dems and fellow travelers on the left. That is precisely what I think he was doing there with the use of “hate-filled, vile and racist”. Likely, Turbin is far more “hate-filled, vile and racist” than Trump in real life (after all, he is a Dem politician who routinely uses racial divisions for political reasons). But he uses SJW coded speech to “other” Trump here. No surprise - and no wonder why a lot of conservatives consider him one of the most vile Dems in the Senate (as indicated, for example, by Rush calling him “Turbin” and constantly making fun of him).

Known Unknown said...

"“I cannot believe in this history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday.”.

Lyndon. Baines. Johnson.

I can guarantee that.

Mac McConnell said...

"Apparently he's never heard of or read the stories about LBJ."

or Harry Truman.

Has Dick our troops are like SS Storm Troopers Durbin ever been curious what Bill Clinton said to Monica when he impaled her on his cigar? Or when JFK would tell his intern to suck off a staff member or his brother at the WH pool while he masturbated in the pool?

Known Unknown said...

Jinx, Bruce. I owe you a Coke.

grackle said...

Please, reporters, if you are not doing this already, confront Durbin with the quote that has been in the press, and ask him: Did Trump say those specific words, verbatim? Can you confirm that is a verbatim quote?

This would be a reasonable request – IF – an impartial and truth-seeking press existed in America. But no such entity lives here. If the request is sincere and not meant as sarcasm – if Althouse really believes such journalistic questioning of anti-Trump fake news is even a possibility by the Trump-hating MSM – it only reveals HER bubble.

Readers, the so-called “reporters” will accept any negative news regarding Trump unconditionally, uncritically and without bothering to find out if it is actually true or not. If it fits the anti-Trump narrative it is always eagerly swallowed whole by the “reporters.” This includes the supposedly “rightwing” FoxNews, BTW. Althouse should know this by now; any objective observer should know this.

JaimeRoberto said...

I've asked many of my Indian colleagues if they ever plan to return to India to live. They don't call it a shit hole, but when they openly laugh at the notion, their opinion of the place is clear.

Bruce Hayden said...

Another thought - it probably wasn’t the terminology itself that was the issue, but rather what we used to call “calling a spade a spade”. Pointing out that the emperor had no clothes. We are taught in school, indoctrinated even, that all cultures are the same. Most of us older than maybe 30 or so know that is BS. Instead of American Exceptionalism, kids are now taught just the opposite - multiculturalism, with a lot of antiamericanism thrown in. This was a direct attack on multiculturalism. Everyone knows that the reason that people are willing to risk drowning to get her from Cuba, or dying of thirst to get her from central or South America, is because this is a much better place to live. Cuba has been a shithole since the Castro brothers took over. Venezuela is a shithole now, with their experiment in socialism. Much of the Middle East is little better, with their incessant tribal and religious wars and consequent brutality. Etc. But you can’t voice this reality in polite company, because you might offend someone. Or couldn’t, because Trump is making this sort of honest conversations acceptable again. And the left, including Senator Turbin, can’t let that happen.

Professional lady said...

There's no doubt that Trump can act like a jerk. But at this point I don't believe much if any of the inflammatory accusations that are constantly lobbed at him. At this point, there has to be concrete proof, named sources, and no weaseling around for me to believe it. Mostly, I just ignore it because I automatically assume it's made-up. Also, I find it hard to believe that presidents never use vulgar descriptions and that Trump is the only one who has ever used a description like this. Even if he did, is it so bad? How many adults have never used that term or something like it to describe a place? Not very many. Spare me all this outrage. I guess I'm suffering from outrage fatigue.

Dr Weevil said...

Chuck has now repeated the same totally illogical argument twice, the second time at 9:24:

"Mac McConnell said...
'Who gives a fuck if President of the United States Donald J Trump said, "shit hole".
...'

Then in that case, the Trump Administration should own it. Put out a press release; identify the list of shit holes. Do a press conference and talk about the shit holes.

Own it.

And don't lie about it. Don't try to weasel out of it."

Chuck doesn't appear to understand the very simple logical point that there is no contradiction between saying

a. Trump didn't say it, and

b. If he had said it, it wouldn't be a big deal.

When Chuck insists that Trump "own" the word, even if he didn't say it, he's suggesting that the president of the United States should he tell a bald-faced lie to help his enemies. Only someone blinded by political hatred could think that would be a good idea.

I'm pretty sure there are on-line free courses in Basic Logic.

Mac McConnell said...

The only thing I can fault President of the United States Donald J Trump for is believing he could have an honest closed door discussion with democrats and not be quoted. Will Dick Turbin even be allowed on the WH grounds for the next closed door meeting? I hope not, he is a weasel dick.

Seeing Red said...

I may have gotten the name wrong, but I thought Charles Dickens came to visit the US and found US a shithole using today’s terminology and the citizens of I think NYC were offended and actually started cleaning up the city. (Maybe it was de Codeville?)

I think we surpassed Europe’s living standards around 1900 so from a certain POV they became a shithole and for some strange reason they decided to destroy said shithole twice in the 20th century.

My dad visited Paris in the 50s and before I went in the 80s he said it was a smelly dirty city when I was there and it would be the same.

He was right.




Mac McConnell said...

President Donald Trump should quote Dick Turbin from the meeting's transcript and explain how Dick Turbin has more compassion for the welfare, safety and economic well being for Illegal aliens than American citizens.

walter said...

Kevin said...
Then he should admit it. Own it. Own the word.

The word is not the quote. And the quote doesn’t include the context of the discussion in which it was made.
The media is reporting the word and then reading his inner thoughts to crate a context.
Were you a lawyer you wouldn’t demand your client to own the word.
Were you a lawyer you’d rightly object.
--
Chuck's on prosecution side.

Mac McConnell said...

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2018/01/12/daaamn-jake-tapper-rekt-lefties-bitching-at-him-for-reporting-facts-behind-trumps-shthole-comment/

This might explain President Trump's push back on the "Haiti is a shit hole" misquote.

walter said...

But Mac, "if it rings true, it is true"
Notionally true..

grackle said...

I just saw a Durbin clip on Fox. He carefully does not claim Trump called the Haitians, or the nation of Haiti “shitholes.” What Durbin says now is that Trump questioned whether it was a good idea to have so many from Haiti – in my opinion a perfectly reasonable question. Durbin now claims Trump used un-PC language when discussing immigration from Africa.

On whether Trump said the word “shitholes”: My guess is that he probably did. I can easily imagine Trump saying something like, “Why do we have to accept mass immigration from every shithole in Africa but so few from a country, say, like Norway?” And Trump’s remark would be quite correct – a coarse yet accurate recognition of reality.

Africa as a continent is largely composed of shitholes. A quick perusal of State Department Human Rights Reports confirms it: From Angola through Zambia - a constantly warring tribalism, rife with cruelty, terrorism and torture. In effect, Africa has reverted to its pre-colonial condition, only with modern weapons.

walter said...

And..today on "Words redefined by Dems": "Chain migration"=racist
Hmmm..rope migration?

steve uhr said...

How can trump say the wall was not appropriately funded? The only appropriate funding is for Mexico to pay for it. I have some vague recollection that was said by Trump a few times during the campaign.

walter said...

(Dick Durbin..speaking for African-Americans..feels their pain)

walter said...

Good question Steve.
Another one is how the wall isn't already built base on the 2006 authorization Dems voted for.

John said...

President Trump and Private citizen Trump have been in the limelight since the early 80's. Has he ever used vulgar language in public or in private that we know of?

It is hard to be believe that someone who would say (allegedly) "shithole" in a meeting of this type would not have other examples in his 40 year public record.

Pussy doesn't count as vulgar any more hand hasn't for a number of years. Don't know if he ever uses the word "sucks" but that is another word, a shortening of "sucks dick", that would have been forbidden but is now in common use by kids from 6 to 60. Also "screwed" as in "That's really screwed up"

I am talking about words that network TV would bleep or no allow to be used in shows.

SO unless someone who was there and heard it themselves says he said it, I call bullshit.

Durbin does not President Trump used the word. Just that the press reports are not "inaccurate" which is not exactly the same as "Are accurate" and that President Trump's language was racist and hatefilled with no details why.

John Henry

Gahrie said...

Trump tweeted he used tough language “but this was not the language used”. He is not denying he said shithole, he’s denying he said “this”.

Somebody is getting President Trump confused with President Clinton.

Chuck said...

Tom Cotton and David Perdue are saying that they "do not remember" Trump saying "shithole."

Lindsey Graham told Tim Scott that Trump did say "shithole."

The evidence mounts.

Rabel said...

"America is not a nation that accepts the hypocrisy of workers who mow our lawns, make our beds, clean out bedpans, with no chance ever to get right with the law."

- B. Obama.

Despite the specific expertise people from shithole countries bring to the American bedpan cleaning industry Trump is willing to end the hypocrisy and help them get right with the law by sending them home. This is what a problem solver does.

Chuck said...

I think that the early-morning video from Durbin is what is throwing people like Atlhouse off.

The New York Post reports -- beyond the television niceties -- Durbin confirms Trump's use of the word "shitholes."

“And then he went on when we started to describe the immigration from Africa that was being protected in this bipartisan measure. That’s when he used these vile and vulgar comments, calling the nations they come from ‘shitholes.’ The exact word used by the president, not just once, but repeatedly,” he said.
Durbin added: “I cannot imagine a moment where a president sunk to that depth, that’s what breaks my heart.”
https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/senator-confirms-trumps-shithole-remark-says-there-was-so-much-more/

Drago said...

Of course, now the lefties are attacking Jake Tapper for daring to offer up context to the remarks.

Which is precisely what the insane left, and unsurprisingly, LLR Chuck, don't want.

Drago said...

Vichy Chuck: "The New York Post reports -- beyond the television niceties -- Durbin confirms Trump's use of the word "shitholes."

LOL

What a sad little creature you are.

Go take a look at Tappers context comments via his twitter feed....if you dare. Not that you will, #StrongDemDefender.

Drago said...

This is becoming as embarrassing for LLR Chuck as Chucks strong defense of Stolen Valor Blumenthal.

Some things never change!

Gahrie said...

Ahh, but shithole that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic... that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I'd have produced that key if they hadn't of pulled the Caine out of action. I, I, I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officers...

Original Mike said...

"UPDATE 2: Cotton and Perdue say they don't "recall" hearing the "shithole" statement. Why wouldn't they be sure?"

I think they're just stick it to Durbin. Good for them. Two can play at this game.

Chuck said...

Jake Tapper's source confirms that Trump said "shithole countries":

****
Jake Tapper
‏Verified account
@jaketapper
6 hours ago
More
Then in a separate part of the conversation when they were referencing the diversity visa lottery, President Trump referred to people coming from Africa as coming from “shithole countries.”
Again, I’m not saying this is better. Just that this is what happened, per my source. 5/
****

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/951814037960085504

William Chadwick said...

"“I cannot believe in this history of the White House, in that Oval Office, any president has ever spoken the words that I personally heard our president speak yesterday.”.

"Lyndon. Baines. Johnson.

"I can guarantee that."

Sources report that Johnson was proud of his Johnson; that the "B" should have stood for "Big" and not "Baines"; and that he was fond of exhibiting it at any given opportunity. My favorite LBJ story, in terms of underscoring the man's vulgarity, was when he called up George Wallace to "influence" Wallace on the voting rights dispute.

LBJ reportedly told Wallace something like, "Now, George, you know the Negroes got the right to vote, don't you? Well, if you know the Negroes got the right to vote, why don't you just let the Negroes vote?"

Only he didn't say "Negroes."

William Chadwick said...

Supplement to the post above, there are also numerous stories of Hillary, when angry, using slurs about Jews and Blacks. But that was different. Because shut up.

Danno said...

Isn't anyone in DC honest enough to agree some places really are shit-holes? And we shouldn't be so politically correct to pretend they're not!

Mike said...

Do you really believe Trump anymore

Yes because his version matches Tom Cotton, a man I admire greatly for his honor and INTEGRITY, unlike obvious lack of integrity in some Lifelong Republicans.

Chuck said...

Mike said...
"Do you really believe Trump anymore"

Yes because his version matches Tom Cotton, a man I admire greatly for his honor and INTEGRITY, unlike obvious lack of integrity in some Lifelong Republicans.

What is it about Trump's "version" matches Cotton? Cotton said -- exceedingly carefully -- that he did not remember Trump saying those words. And actually, did Cotton "say" anything? It was a damned press release from Perdue and Cotton. I want a good reporter to question Cotton (and Perdue) good and hard about it.

I say that as a huge fan of Cotton. I was sort of hoping that Cotton would be president in 2021. Now, I think he might be selling his soul to be the next CIA director after Tillerson quits and Pompeo becomes Secretary of State.

Chuck said...

Althouse, you bothered to update this post with the statement released on behalf of Senators Cotton and Perdue. But you didn't update Senator Durbin, about whom there is no more doubt. Durbin confirmed that Trump said, "shithole countries."

And you might as well add Senator Lindsey Graham, per Senator Tim Scott.

Drago said...

Sad Little LLR Chuck: "Jake Tapper's source confirms that Trump said "shithole countries"

Tapper showed the different context.

You won't.

LOL

You have officially become more unhinged and lefty than CNN and the fever swamps!

Congrats lunatic! You've done it!

Chuck said...

LOUDER JAKE TAPPER:

"THEN IN A SEPARATE PART OF THE CONVERSATION WHEN THEY WERE REFERENCING THE DIVERSITY VISA LOTTERY, PRESIDENT TRUMP REFERRED TO PEOPLE COMING FROM AFRICA AS HAVING COME FROM 'SHITHOLE COUNTRIES'."


wendybar said...

YAWN!!!!......https://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewchampion/obama-blasts-cameron-for-libya-becoming-a-shit-show?sub=0_8186635&utm_term=.gl1mAJjGr#.sxv091oO4

Dr Weevil said...

It is only true that "Durbin confirmed that Trump said" it, if Durbin is not himself lying. Why would someone so eager to accuse Trump of lying refuse to consider, even for a moment, the possibility that Durbin might be lying?

Spaceman said...

Obamer was deporting Haitians.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-to-crack-down-on-deporting-haitian-immigrants/

Mac McConnell said...

It was originally reported that President Trump said, "Haiti was a shit hole country". The President pushed back, said he didn't call Haiti a "shit hole". Now we find out didn't say it.

He use the term " shit hole counties" referring to African counties in general. So the fuck what!

Mac McConnell said...

I got a chain email from some frat brothers. Should I email them back telling them it might offend our black frat bros? I mean chain and slavery and all that.

Shouldn't Loretta Lynch change last name? Any word from DICK Durbin?

Mac McConnell said...

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/shithole.jpg

Drago said...

LOL

Lunatic Chuck goes ALL CAPS and all bold to finally post what everyone has been explaining to him all day and which demonstrates his dishonesty in demanding that we ignore the context of what was said which led directly to the lefty lie that Trump had been speaking about Haiti.

Well played LLR.

Well played!

One might even say that finally catching up to the conversation and then posting all caps/all bold to post something which validates what your opponents have been saying is the act of a.......lunatic.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Why privilege the entry of people from countries that are already rich? Is that what made America "great?"

Duh. It didn't. We took in the strivers who wanted to better their lot. People from poor countries who only see the difficult journey to America as the best way to improve things would be strivers. Those who didn't do well enough in already rich countries to want to come here are likely to be dullards.

Talk about entitlements. Trump is turning us into a country of precious lazyasses as entitled as he is.