July 12, 2017

The prayer for Donald Trump.

93 comments:

Feste said...

Pray to want and follow the truth more than life itself.

jimbino said...

Fortunately for us, intercessory prayer has never been shown to have any effect whatsoever.

mccullough said...

Religion is a business, like education.

sodal ye said...

Jesus Christ. I mean er, oh well, whatever. 3 1/2 more years of this. Something has to break.

Paddy O said...

Praying for government leaders has been a practice of the church since its beginning. Which is why I find the partisan derision disgusting from both the Christian Right against liberals and the Christian Left against conservatives.

Hari said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ralph L said...

Blue fingernails could be the mark of Satan.

Mutaman said...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/99/1c/32991ce4b11f4d177fae29d0c525a159.jpg

traditionalguy said...

Awesome. Paul said praying for government is the first duty of Christians, because good government creates freedom of speech for the Gospel message and good communications and freedom to travel around with
It.

And it seems only fair since the Resistance to Trump is busy spirit cooking up high powered curses with by their high priestesses continually in service to Satan.

David Begley said...

I submit that Donald Trump has been profoundly changed - for the better - by the campaign and now the office of President. He will rise above his critics. This Russia thing turns out to be nothing other than the indictment of the likes of Rice and Power for leaking classified documents and illegally unmasking American citizens.

J. Farmer said...

Rodney Howard-Browne is a preacher in my hometown of Tampa, Florida. He and his wife are full on charismatic evangelicals, including speaking in tongues, having visions, laying on hands, and even "holy laughter," which is apparently something the Howard-Browne's pioneered when they were pastors in nearby Lakeland. Maybe it's the unfair association with the Jim Baker-Jimmy Swaggart-Oral Robers-Ted Haggard contention or maybe the 1972 documentary Marjoe) or maybe just a general disposition towards cynicism, but I always suspect high-profile charismatic preachers of being total charlatans.

EDH said...

File under: It's different when Obama did it.

Ann Althouse said...

I sense that Donald Trump has already survived DonJr-gate.

Odi said...

Solidifying the Evangelical base for 2020 with every move he makes... and trolling the Left at the same time.

Hari said...

Trump can count on a very small number of people, and it has to hurt that Donald Jr, one of the people he counts on the most, is at the center of this firestorm.

Feste said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sodal ye said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...
I sense that Donald Trump has already survived DonJr-gate.

National Review home page is even more of a DonJr bloodbath than CNN's.

AllenS said...

The June 11 hail storm in my neck of the woods (Star Prairie WI) left me with a roof on the house, garage, pole barn, wood shed, and the north and west siding on the house and garage, that needed to be replaced, and it took out my Trump lawn sign. Bought 2 more Trump lawn signs, and have one of them up. Haven't gotten the check from the insurance company yet. Priorities.

Otto said...

Stunning how secular is our culture. Laying of hands is a common practice for those who are going to a new venture in their life. It is a sign of the community wishing that person well in his new venture from a Christian perspective. Nothing more, nothing less. Yet the hatred and deep resentment for this simple act will be displayed by many comments here. Which begs the question why?

Once written, twice... said...

Of course he "survived" Don Jr.-gate, but he is further damaged.

tcrosse said...

I sense that Donald Trump has already survived DonJr-gate.

Lots of sound and fury, but it's not even a -Gate. It's more like a cat-flap.

Earnest Prole said...

Incantations

EDH said...

Every charge against Trump & Co. seems to go full circle into a comparison of how Hillary & Co. did something along the same lines but more despicable and adverse to the country's interests, not just against her political opponent's interests.

DavidD said...

"...for x and I."? Wrong.

Feste said...

“Fortunately for us, intercessory prayer has never been shown to have any effect whatsoever.”

Fortunately for us the military funded PSI research of the Stargate Project (Jessica Utts, others) found nothing useful in PSI for good old boys and bad old boys to militarize. Not that this research will ever be over - because what a helluva weapon, if we find it.

We mutate-selectants do well enough on our own generating causes and effects by our randomized artificial selections of loves and wars with our petty little gods and our petty little no-gods, and with results only trivially distinguishing skill from chance - as effective as the Missouri Compromise. Whether religion is a species or a pseudospecies for reproductive purposes - take your chance and enjoy the bed of your own making - because either way, we’re big-brained rationalized infants in more ways than we know.

The results of intercessory prayer cannot be measured, and maybe never will, because we don’t have sufficient metrics in turbulent dynamics and only assholes would think they could devise scalars to identify “gods.” As if Pan’s military god-dogs would not have minds of their own.

I say we militarize cats. Free spirits. Cats make brilliant deodands.

Then try grabbin' by the pussy.

AllenS said...

If any of you have been in combat, and the person next to you is shot, and hit bad, they never mention politicians, or hollywood pretty boys/girls, but mom and God. There's a reason for that.

Mutaman said...

"If any of you have been in combat, and the person next to you is shot, and hit bad, they never mention politicians, or hollywood pretty boys/girls, but mom and God. There's a reason for that."

Trump always mentioned God when he was in combat. or maybe I'm thinking of somebody else.

AllenS said...

Maybe, Bill or Hillary Clinton, or BH Obama, Mutaman.

Mutaman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllenS said...

Does one have to be in combat in Vietnam?

Feste said...

“Trump always mentioned God when he was in combat. or maybe I'm thinking of somebody else.”

Fuck yeah. I love you.

The only One I’m thinking of is Dwight D. and his [naturally] prophetic farewell address. No glitz. No charm. No ego. No boast. Stumbled over his own written words. Not even any fucking hair to make a pompoo-look-at-me-hairdo. Soft spoken. Too kind to bear. Too humble not to love. Too generous in thanks to allies and others, too generous to contain. A Warrior speaking from the grave - now seldom heard in the sewage of tweets and bone spurs, in the service of, “let’s get on with the show, this is it. “ As if life is all about words. Oh, that there were a God, making men and women like these.

Mutaman said...

I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your history, there, Allen. HRC and Barry weren't eligible for Viet Nam . Trump had some kind of owie on his foot, and a rich father.

"Stern responded, "I even went as far to say that you're braver than any Vietnam vet because you're out there screwing a lot of women."

"Getting the Congressional Medal of Honor, in actuality," said Trump."

AllenS said...

How about BJ Clinton, he was "eligible" for Vietnam.

J. Farmer said...

If any of you have been in combat, and the person next to you is shot, and hit bad, they never mention politicians, or hollywood pretty boys/girls, but mom and God. There's a reason for that.

Isn't this just a rehash of the no-atheists-in-foxholes canard?

Mutaman said...

Fine. Don't mention Bill, Trump, God or combat in the same sentence. Happy?

"Later in the interview Trump and Stern again compared avoiding STDs to Vietnam.

"I'm having a good time, but Howard, you know the one negative: It's very, very dangerous out there," said Trump.

"Yes it is, it's your Vietnam," added Stern.

"It's Vietnam," added Trump. "It is very dangerous. So I'm very, very careful."

AllenS said...

canard?

ca·nard
kəˈnär(d)/Submit
noun
1.
an unfounded rumor or story.

I can assure you, it's no canard, but since you've never been there, you wouldn't know, would you?

J. Farmer said...

@AllenS:

I can assure you, it's no canard, but since you've never been there, you wouldn't know, would you?

You can assure me? You know the personal religious views of everyone who has ever died in a foxhole? You've "been there?" To take just one example off the top of my head, Pat Tillman was widely known as an atheist whose wartime experience didn't seem to engender any change in his worldview. So, yes, there are atheists in foxholes and the contention that there isn't can accurately be described as a canard.

Luke Lea said...

Better their hands on his head than his hands on that glowing orb in Saudi Arabia:

https://goo.gl/qo79rG

That really spooked me.

Mutaman said...

And down goes AllenS, Jay- that's going to leave a very bad mark.

harrogate said...

Comic relief.

Everyone depicted in that shot is a bad person

YoungHegelian said...

A Republican president who would spurn such a photo op would guarantee himself one term.

If one is Republican, you don't have to be a part or like the Religious Right. You just can't piss in their faces & tell them it's raining.

The Religious Right came through for Trump & he has returned them the favor many times over.

Sample Commenter said...

Once written, twice... said...
Of course he "survived" Don Jr.-gate, but he is further damaged


Really? You hate him even more now? Wow!

Ann Althouse said...

"National Review home page is even more of a DonJr bloodbath than CNN's."

All the more reason to see it as something in the rear-view mirror.

Mutaman said...

National review even mentioned the letters "N*I*G on Don Jr's pajamas.

Feste said...

“You can assure me? You know the personal religious views of everyone who has ever died in a foxhole?”

Good point. Inductive learning, including introspection, can be the most powerful and long lasting form of learning, if only we know what lesson we’re supposed to learn from the Big Dump Truck that blesses us with shit loads of learning, leaving us to induct and introspect the meaning of the Mess. I, for one, am not good at induction. I avoid introspection like the plague because I comfort myself with my own illusions of order imposed on the world out there. I know it. And enjoy my illusions. Deduction from first principles might make me believe, if I were a smart man, and I’m not, that if the axiom is true (no atheists in foxholes), then there would be no wars, with everyone on all sides praying so goddamn much.

Char Char Binks said...

Is that an exorcism?

Achilles said...

"National Review home page is even more of a DonJr bloodbath than CNN's."

Nobody reads NRO anymore. It is highlighted for mockery on blogs people actually read every now and then.

Curious George said...

"Hari said...
Trump can count on a very small number of people"

I don't know, 62,984,825 seems like quite a lot.

Static Ping said...

Praying for people in general and leaders in particular is pretty normal. The only reason to object to that particular photo is because you don't like the persons praying which is an odd thing for the tolerance crowd.

As for those of you who think prayer is stupid: thanks for sharing, I guess. Not particularly insightful or useful, but, sure. Duly noted.

Birches said...

I agree there's nothing wrong with praying for our leaders, but I find it very off putting to take a picture when you're doing the praying.

FullMoon said...

Mutaman said... [hush]​[hide comment]

And down goes AllenS, Jay- that's going to leave a very bad mark.


Not really, and, your stupid.

Static Ping said...

I think today was the day that I gave up on NRO. Dan McLaughlin's commentary was useful and interesting but after slogging through a bunch of Never-Trump nonsense that I can only describe as irrational, I do not see the point of going back.

Snark said...

Jesus Christ. So to speak.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Yep. He's a bona fide weirdo.

What's next? Snake handlers? Fire eaters? Snake charmers?

Snake oil salesmen? (Oh wait, that's HIM).

Talking in tongues? (Twitter kind of serves that purpose).

Sacrificing society's most vulnerable, to appease the gods? (No health care for you!)

A golden calf for Wall Street? Oh, I guess that's not weird enough.

Earnest Prole said...

Praying for people in general and leaders in particular is pretty normal.

It’s not that prayer is stupid, it’s that Trump is about as religious as a kumquat.

Unknown said...

Creepy.

Birkel said...

Can we agree that "...mom and/or God..." is likely correct and quit deriding religion and religious people?

You atheists make all the quiet, respectful atheists look like ass holes.

FullMoon said...


Blogger Earnest Prole said...

Praying for people in general and leaders in particular is pretty normal.

It’s not that prayer is stupid, it’s that Trump is about as religious as a kumquat.

7/12/17, 6:46 PM


Clarification required. Against the rules to pray for a non-religious person.or against the rules for a non-religious person to pray?

Against rules for person belonging to no religion to believe in and pray to "god"?

tcrosse said...

If only they were Moslems....

FullMoon said...

Unknown said...

Creepy.

7/12/17, 6:47 PM


Yeah, but most here tolerate you anyway.

Henry said...

Why wouldn't you pray for him? I sure hope the prayers work.

Mormons, who downplay formal prayers, have many formulaic expressions, including this one, that I heard hundreds of times in my childhood (for Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan):

[Bless] our government leaders, that they may be guided to make righteous decisions.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Trump had some kind of owie on his foot, and a rich father.

LOL. Jon Stewart's take on that was hilarious. He aired footage of a reporter asking him what foot his "bone spur" was on, and he told the reporter that she could check the record for herself if she wanted to find out.

Jon said, "Right a' left, one a dose two. Probably whichever one isn't in my MOUUTH at the moment."

Henry said...

I like this, from Fiddler on the Roof:

Is there a proper blessing for the Tsar?

YoungHegelian said...

@Earnest Prole,

It’s not that prayer is stupid, it’s that Trump is about as religious as a kumquat.

And, do tell, aside from Jimmy Carter, the name of a president of the 20th or 21st C that was more religious than a kumquat.

Earnest Prole said...

Clarification required.

Perhaps an analogy will help. If Trump began suddenly, say, preaching the sanctity of marriage, it’s not marriage that’s being insulted but rather anyone who would take what Trump says about marriage at face value.

hombre said...

Otto wrote: "Yet the hatred and deep resentment for this simple act will be displayed by many comments here. Which begs the question why?"

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 1:7 ESV

Mary Beth said...

I don't like big, clunky rings.

FullMoon said...

Earnest Prole said...

Clarification required.

Perhaps an analogy will help. If Trump began suddenly, say, preaching the sanctity of marriage, it’s not marriage that’s being insulted but rather anyone who would take what Trump says about marriage at face value.


Huh?
Pretty simple questions.

Against the rules to pray for a non-religious person.or against the rules for a non-religious person to pray?

Against rules for person belonging to no religion to believe in and pray to "god"?

Earnest Prole said...

do tell, aside from Jimmy Carter, the name of a president of the 20th or 21st C that was more religious than a kumquat

Well, George W. Bush began each day by reading the bible, and Ronald Reagan’s deep spirituality is evident throughout Reagan, In His Own Hand, but I realize some younger commenters may not remember those presidents.

Ken B said...

The real question is, should the NYT survive juniorgate?

There is nothing to the Russia stories. Nothing. Everyone knows this. They are all fake news. This is most of CNN's airtime, lasting for nine months. And all of it fake news. The NYT junior story is just latest gasp. But it shows the NYT haven't disavowed fake news, they still embrace it.

Earnest Prole said...

Pretty simple questions.

I'm for people doing whatever the hell they want, but that doesn't mean I promise not to laugh at them. I respect genuine religion and laugh at fake religion, and Trump is about as religious as a kumquat. Your mileage may vary.

FullMoon said...

Earnest Prole said...

Pretty simple questions.

I'm for people doing whatever the hell they want, but that doesn't mean I promise not to laugh at them. I respect genuine religion and laugh at fake religion, and Trump is about as religious as a kumquat. Your mileage may vary.


So, cannot believe in god without belonging to a religion?

FullMoon said...

Ernest Prole said:

I'm for people doing whatever the hell they want, but that doesn't mean I promise not to laugh at them. I respect genuine religion and laugh at fake religion, and Trump is about as religious as a kumquat. Your mileage may vary.


So, which religion is the real one?

Earnest Prole said...

You have a real knack for the incisive question, FullMoon — don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

FullMoon said...

Earnest Prole said...

You have a real knack for the incisive question, FullMoon — don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

7/12/17, 7:56 PM


Cannot answer simple questions.

Religions are sets of rules, instructions, and suggestions.
Belonging to a religion is not a requirement for belief in god. See how easy it is?
Ok for anyone to pray for anyone. Obvious.

Earnest Prole said...

Ok for anyone to pray for anyone. Obvious.

I'm okay, you're okay.

wildswan said...

Anyone in Trump's inner circle will be attacked, this week it was Donald Trump Jr.'s turn. As for prayer, I think Donald Trump would recognize the good will that leads evangelicals to pray for wisdom and protection for him. Evangelicals don't demand that those they pray for conform to their religion before they will pray for them. In this they differ from the left, especially now when the left seems to have ditched COEXIST. My search through Shorewood for a COEXIST bumper sticker has found one example in the Outpost store parking lot in six tries where it used to be speckled with them. So I think that COEXIST is now counterrevolutionary and I may get one or even several sticker for my car. And see what happens when I shop at Outpost. Or what if I wore a MAGA hat with a COEXIST bumper sticker across the front and did not have my own shopping bag but asked for a paper bag?

Birkel said...

I'm okay.
You're judging another person's religiosity; not sure that makes you ok. One wonders if Jesus said anything about judging not.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

I wonder how many spirit gifts the Holy Spirit has to freely give to Trump when asked in faith for The Spirit of the Lord's help?

Hmmm, there are the twin spirits of Wisdom and Understanding, together with the paired spirits of Counsel and Might, and add to them the dual spirits of Knowledge and Fear of the Lord. Having that kind of anointing results in a Leader who is a banner to the peoples and that the nations will rally to. (See, entire Hebrew Prophet Scripture on this Leader contained in Isaiah 11.)

Or don't ask.



eric said...

OL. Jon Stewart's take on that was hilarious.

Was this before or after his military service was over?

Mutaman said...

Full Moon

"Not really, and, your stupid."

My stupid what? or is that a degree from trump University in your pocket?

Earnest Prole said...

You're judging another person's religiosity

Jesus told me he'd let it slide this time.

Qwinn said...

I'm agnoatic, and I find many atheist's reflexive and open contempt for Christians to be FAR more obnoxious than almost any display of religiosity by the sincerely faithful. I also dislike atheists claiming to know whether a profession of faith is sincere or not. That someone does not live up to the standards of their professed beliefs doesn't mean they don't actually believe them - if that were true, we coukd count the number of sincere leftists in the country on one hand. Hmmm... wait. Now that I think about it...

stlcdr said...

It's interesting that a Donald Trump tweet garners more comments than more worthwhile discussions.

Maybe because we have to get our say in before the whole thing drops into the abyss of nothing (tomorrow). The things worth discussing or commenting on will be around for a while, so there's no hurry.

Also, it'd be nice to have a thumbs up on comments. There's a few that many agree with, and it seems wasteful and indulgent to re-post with, essentially, 'I agree'. Too facebookish?

Roy Lofquist said...

Blogger tcrosse said...
I sense that Donald Trump has already survived DonJr-gate.

Lots of sound and fury, but it's not even a -Gate. It's more like a cat-flap.

7/12/17, 5:12 PM


“Sir Isaac Newton, renowned inventor of the milled-edge coin and the catflap!"

"The what?" said Richard.

"The catflap! A device of the utmost cunning, perspicuity and invention. It is a door within a door, you see, a ..."
"Yes," said Richard, "there was also the small matter of gravity."

"Gravity," said Dirk with a slightly dismissed shrug, "yes, there was that as well, I suppose. Though that, of course, was merely a discovery. It was there to be discovered." ... "You see?" he said dropping his cigarette butt, "They even keep it on at weekends. Someone was bound to notice sooner or later. But the catflap ... ah, there is a very different matter. Invention, pure creative invention. It is a door within a door, you see.”

― Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

Birkel said...

Doubling down with anti-religious pronouncements, Earnest Prole?

As an atheist, I find what you're doing offensive. I cannot understand the point of your quasi-religious objection to others' religion. It's bizarre that people must exercise such fervor while claiming to be irreligious.

Fernandinande said...

Earnest Prole said...
I respect genuine religion and laugh at fake religion, and Trump is about as religious as a kumquat. Your mileage may vary.


I have more respect for common shysters than for weak-minded people who harbor incredibly egotistical delusions about their relationship to the universe.

Birkel said...
As an atheist, I find what you're doing offensive.


Tough shit. Go ahead and be offended.

It's bizarre that people must exercise such fervor while claiming to be irreligious.

So you think religious ideas are special in some way, beyond criticism, and that fervor implies superstition?

Fernandinande said...

Birkel's silly post distracted me from my important announcement - "They" should check Trump's back for burned-in hand prints.

Birkel said...

No, Fernandinande. I expect my opinion is every bit as relevant as anybody else's. So is yours. But approaching these matters with such fervor is odd, to me. You can criticize or not and so can I, you. We have equivalent rights.

But I am criticizing based on the self-proclaimed motivations of the people who are expressing themselves. You criticized me not from my own professed position, but from your position. That leaves me unmoved because you made an argument on terms you knew would be unpersuasive to the reader.

Trump, Sr. had religious people pray for him.
He received criticism from people who believe him irreligious.
I asked if such criticism faithfully reflects religious belief, from the perspective of those criticizing Trump, Sr.
That is a self-contained argument.

Your argument fails except as ad hominem.

Earnest Prole said...

Doubling down with anti-religious pronouncements

You have it exactly backward: They're pro-religious pronouncements, and I too am a sinner.

Birkel said...

Pro-religious statements that attack others' religion are self-refuting.

Mary E. Glynn said...

Fuck 'em, AllenS.

"If them chicks don't wanna know, forget 'em..."
~Thin Lizzy.
The Boys Are Back In Town.