June 2, 2017

"Why is it okay to tell young kids being fat = ugly?"



Detail here (in the NYT):
“Red Shoes and the 7 Dwarfs” is a computer-animated movie in which the main character, Snow White, voiced by the actress Chloë Grace Moretz, is overweight but becomes tall and thin when she wears a pair of magical red shoes.

A billboard promoting the film at the Cannes Film Festival last month showed both versions of Snow White, with the fuller-figured one standing next to the text: “What if Snow White was no longer beautiful and the 7 Dwarfs not so short?”

On Tuesday, Tess Holliday, 31, a plus-size model, shared a photograph of the billboard with her tens of thousands of Twitter followers. “How did this get approved by an entire marketing team?” she wrote. “Why is it okay to tell young kids being fat = ugly?”
This led me to watch the trailer, which has been out since last December and which shows a much worse problem than fat shaming, a problem that has always inhered in the Snow White story:



The dwarfs are creepy peepers! Incredibly, the movie conveys their sexual enthusiasm by focusing on Snow White's strip-tease-like undressing.

Which brings out a third problem in the story. Dwarfs are portrayed as if the smallness of their body keeps their mind in childhood. They act like children. And here they are acting childish while engaging in voyeurism. Great idea for a kid's movie.

That made me think: There must be many porn movies based on Snow White. I hesitate to do searches for things like that, but I see there's a 1995 "Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs" that is said to enduringly popular (with "excellent production values" and "beautiful actresses").

50 comments:

exhelodrvr1 said...

Is that the one where the beautiful Snow White puts on a magic pantsuit and turns into a screeching witch?

Kevin said...

There must be many porn movies based on Snow White. I hesitate to do searches for things like that

Delegate to Meade.

rhhardin said...

Jean Shepherd in the 60s said that he'd passed Cinderella and the Golden Bra for months and always meant to see it and now it was gone.

rhhardin said...

Barthelme, _Snow White_

MadisonMan said...

(laugh)

I'm wondering how the voice-over actress will respond.

Tank said...

What motivation (or lesson) will we give kids by telling them that fat is attractive?

Fat is not attractive.

Is it good to make believe that fat is attractive?

David Begley said...

I first thought Disney made this movie and then I realized Snow White (generically) is in the public domain.

Ann Althouse said...

"What motivation (or lesson) will we give kids by telling them that fat is attractive?"

But why make a movie to say that fat is ugly?

Etienne said...

The dwarfs look like teletubbies minus the headgear.

At least they seem to be hetero.

Ann Althouse said...

@rh I've never read that Barthelme book and had forgotten about it. Do people still care about it? Wikipedia only has a "stub" for it. I found this description:

"Set in the modern-day world, Barthelme presents Snow White not as a virginal maiden, but as a tall seductive woman who habitually makes love in the shower with her attendant dwarfs. Very different from their fairy-tale prototypes, these dwarfs occupy themselves by washing buildings and by "tending the vats" (18) in which they prepare their father's recipes of Chinese baby food. Snow White self-consciously waits for her prince figure - named Paul - who is busy trying to come to terms with his destined role, his heroic form. After a series of humorous, self-conscious meditations, he enters a monastery, then quits, journeys around the world, and finally returns to New York. There, he sets up a complex underground surveillance system, complete with trained dogs, to watch over Snow White, who in turn is being conspired against by the villainous Jane, "the wicked stepmother figure" (82). True to form, the vindictive antagonist attempts to poison Snow White, but Paul intercepts the drink, consumes it himself, and dies. Barthelme's version of the tale ends with the dwarfs departing, but not before hanging one of their own clan, having found him to be guilty of "vatricide and failure.""

Ann Althouse said...

By the way, I'm reading a book called "How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read."

Curious George said...

"Ann Althouse said...
"What motivation (or lesson) will we give kids by telling them that fat is attractive?"

But why make a movie to say that fat is ugly?"

Because it is. And by and large it negatively effects one's life.

Ann Althouse said...

Spoiler alert.

Sorry about Paul and the poison.

Ann Althouse said...

"Vatricide"

Sounds like the whole elaborate thing was a set up for that language joke.

I used to feel I should read things like that. And yet I still never got around to that.

Meade encouraged me to read this Anne Rice retelling of Sleeping Beauty.

Angel-Dyne said...

"Why is it okay to tell young kids being fat = ugly?"

Why is it OK to tell fat kids that being fat is OK? It isn't.

I'd agree that there's a lot of "not OK" packed in here. I'd agree that it's "not OK" to be cruel to fat kids. (They need to lose weight, and being cruel to them is unlikely to help with that goal.)

I'd agree that it's "not OK" to tell kids that being slim (aka more attractive) is the be-all and end-all of life, and will solve all your problems and make you happy. (It won't. But it will make you more attractive, which may lead to things that make for a happier life, unlike being fat and unattractive, which will not.)

AA: The dwarfs are creepy peepers! Incredibly, the movie conveys their sexual enthusiasm by focusing on Snow White's strip-tease-like undressing.
...
Great idea for a kid's movie.


Movie-industry perverts shoveling shit at your children is...well, it's what they do. Parents make it profitable for them to do so, so why should they stop? (You're not one of those flyover prudes who want to rapunzel your children in locked towers, are you? Look how that worked out, we'll get at them anyway, tee hee hee.) They get to make lots of money while indulging their perversions. Win-win.

Even more degenerate than "fat acceptance".

Ann Althouse said...

Curious George, you have me saying what Tank said.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Which brings out a third problem in the story. Dwarfs are portrayed as if the smallness of their body keeps their mind in childhood. They act like children.

It's not the smallness of their bodies that keeps their mind in childhood. It is the lack of women. Boys grow into men when they figure out that's how to attract a mate. That is a significant role that women play in society.

Feminists will say that women should not have to bare the burden of civilizing men. I'm not saying that is how it should be. I'm just pointing out that is how it is. If you have a problem with that, take it up with evolutionary biology.

Angel-Dyne said...

AA: But why make a movie to say that fat is ugly?

Why not?

Paco Wové said...

This appears to be the product of a Korean animation firm, which may explain why the take on a Western fairytale appears odd to us Westerners. Also, why they don't give a damn about American shame obsessions, like "fat acceptance".

Paco Wové said...

"the take on a Western fairytale appears odd"

Call it "the uncanny kimchi valley".

William said...

Just spit balling here. How about a remake starring Peter Dinklage. Here's the hook. Snow White, played by Lena Dunham, overcomes her tallism prejudices and comes to see that Peter is her true Prince Charming, not those phony aristocrats.. Peter, for his part, recognizes that a few extra pounds is no insurmountable barrier to true love. Lena gets diabetes and dies in Peter's arms. I'm thinking of a kind of Titanic subtheme of doomed lovers. Any movie where Lena dies in the end is sure to be a crowd pleaser.

Laslo Spatula said...

The "dwarf" aspect was always a fig leaf for "gay".

Beautiful woman, surrounded by gay men, like a modern Fashion Model with her make-up guys, personal assistants, etc etc.

'Dwarf' was a way of depicting Men Who Had Something Not Quite Right About Them.

She enjoys their attentions but wants something more.

They enjoy her presence but want nothing else.

Making the Gay Men be Dwarves can be seen as Homosexual Panic.

And, of course:

They tell her how to give the perfect blow-job, but she has no one with which to practice her technique.

I am Laslo.

Tim Gilliland said...

Tank Said;
"Fat is not attractive"

I think that perhaps a caveat should be attached there to say,
Fat is not attractive in our current culture
Trot through any museum of classical art and you will see women, usually naked, who would be thought by our culture police to be somewhere between chubbo and morbidly obese.
Human nature, shabbily in my view, takes no consideration for the views of people who lived in very different times from those alive today.
A model we view as 'normal' in today's pop culture would have been viewed by citizens of the 16th, 17th and likely the 18th century as dangerously thin and probably sick with worms or consumption.
I saw an article on some feed yesterday bitching about Alec Baldwin's daughter, -Ireland? saying she refused to be fat shamed, and had swimsuit pics of her, Jaysus! she was no more fat than any other healthy woman I could think of.
The whole thinness thing is a sham, to sell people crap they don't need.

Etienne said...

It seems insulting to have an English sign in a French speaking country. I guess maybe Cannes is an English enclave, devoid of French culture??

A popular cookbook by a French woman was: 'French Women Don't Get Fat'.

The #1 national bestseller that launched a fabulous French Revolution about how to approach healthy living

Healthy living == Sans Fat

tcrosse said...

It seems insulting to have an English sign in a French speaking country.

That's how the Quebecois see it. The French, not so much.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Trot through any museum of classical art and you will see women, usually naked, who would be thought by our culture police to be somewhere between chubbo and morbidly obese."

In cultures of scarcity, fat is a status symbol. The women in Bollywood movies are pretty hefty by Western standards. In the West today, it is harder to maintain thinness than it is to be fat.

The same thing goes for tanning. Pale skin was prized in the 19th century because being tanned meant you worked in the fields (and in the American South, darker skin was, of course, associated with slavery). Tanning became popular in the 1920's, when Americans were moving to the cities and working in offices and factories and bathing suits exposed more skin - because it was a sign of leisure.

Things that require time and money become fashionable. As was noted in the thread about ripped male movie stars, a man has to spend many hours in the gym to get six-pack abs.

Laslo Spatula said...

Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sleepy, Bashful, Sneezy, Dopey: most of them sound like Bottoms.

I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

Doc would be the one who is the member of NADBLA.

North American Dwarf / Boy Love Association.

I am Laslo.

Darrell said...

We're going to need a bigger boat.

urbane legend said...

At 5'8" and ___, too many pounds, where can I get a pair of those red shoes? And will I end up thin in Kansas?

And why are magic shoes always red? I'm hetero; I have nothing to wear with them, or them with. I can't keep that shoe/outfit combination straight.

Angel-Dyne said...

Tim Gilliland: I saw an article on some feed yesterday bitching about Alec Baldwin's daughter, -Ireland? saying she refused to be fat shamed, and had swimsuit pics of her, Jaysus! she was no more fat than any other healthy woman I could think of.
The whole thinness thing is a sham, to sell people crap they don't need.


You're confusing two fucked-up things here, Tim.

1) Fashion fairies and neurotic women trying to convince healthy-weight women that they're "fat". (Actually, three fucked-up things. Women who pay attention to them.)

2) Delusional degenerates trying to convince people that oozing into the next airline seat, or eating yourself into needing a "rascal" to pick up your diabetes meds, is "beautiful", and a legitimate "lifestyle" choice worthy of everyone's respect.

Btw, you can't "educate" people into finding attractive what they do not find attractive. Exposure to art or anthropology does not cause people "in our current culture" to suddenly start finding Venus of Willendorf proportions attractive. (Doesn't do anything about the diabetes, hypertension, or joint problems, either.)

rehajm said...

The Brothers Grimm messed with kids heads, too. This might be better at it.

Sydney said...

"Why is it OK to tell young kids being fat=ugly?"

Because fat is the new smoking. Also, it is more acceptable to criticize people for being fat than it is to criticize them for being promiscuous and getting/spreading STDs. We'd rather vaccinate against those and treat them than promote lifestyle changes. Ditto with drug abuse. Blame goes to the pusher, not the user.

Biotrekker said...

Can't believe this got greenlit.

MadisonMan said...

I'm reading a book called "How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read."

Perfect for a Book Club.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Well I googled the plus size model and unlike most "plus size" models, who are usually only average or slightly overweight she really is "plus size" and then some.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=zDiCydXm&id=2F1E1B7ED70C908F39A660FCCB1C3896BB94CE62&thid=OIP.zDiCydXmKhXD30G7zDKGEwDaEs&q=tess+holliday&simid=608043636921795082&selectedIndex=9&ajaxhist=0

Why is it okay to tell young kids being fat = ugly?

That's why.

Static Ping said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Static Ping said...

There must be many porn movies based on Snow White.

I don't know if there are many, but there are some. The SomethingAwful web site has/had a humorous discussion of them, juxtaposing a European film with (relatively) high production values that could be confused for a live action Disney presentation if they weren't having sex with each other, and an American film of notably low production values that more or less hired a handful of random midgets to gang bang the talent.

Some of the early Sleeping Beauty stories are basically discreet porn. Prince kisses sleeping beauty, princess does not wake up, prince is not going to let that stop him....

Chubfuddler said...

Neil Gaiman has a pretty creepy version of the Snow White story, Snow,
Glass, Apples
. Maybe not Laslo-level pornography, but there is some sex.

My first exposure to the Gaiman version was in an audio format, read by Bebe Neuwirth as the wicked queen/stepmother. It came on my car radio without any introduction while I was on a long drive in an early evening snowstorm in Connecticut and seemed appropriately spooky. There are links to the audio version here: Snow,
Glass, Apples - Seeing Ear Theater
.

Known Unknown said...

I also noticed it's from Korea, where a lot of the Western angst about social justice doesn't exist.

J2 said...

Oh la. Definitely check out the picture linked by Winkleheimer.

rehajm said...

The middle school reference was always made to Snow White and The Seven Sailors

Roger Sweeny said...

What Angel-Dyne 8:22 AM said.

Virtually Unknown said...

Spent some time in Cannes and a French lady told me there was a significant enclave of English people there.

William said...

Further spitballing: Ixnay on Lena for the role. All those tats take us out of the fairy tale setting. Fairy tale princesses don't have tats except in porn movies. I think Amy Schumer could be interchanged for Lena without damage to the theme. Also the ending was a little too grim. (Grimm--haha) I would change it a bit and lighten it up. Amy Schumer still gets diabetes but, in the rewrite, she goes blind, instead of dying. Because of her blindness, the wicked witch is able to creep up on her. The wicked witch doesn't offer her a poisoned apple. No, the wicked witch takes out an axe and decapitates her. This might be a tad gruesome for a kid's movie, but not if it's done with a light comedic touch. I'm thinking maybe Kathy Griffin could own this role. I know, typecasting, but she's really got that light, amusing touch when it comes to decapitation........Peter Dinklage comes upon this scene of gore and bravely slays the wicked witch with her own axe. Big fight scene. See storyboard......Afterwards, he holds Amy's severed head in his hands. There's just enough life left in it to mouth the words "I love you". He bends down, wipes away some of the arterial blood from the lips, and kisses her. A beautiful moment made even more beautiful by the happy ending. The magic kiss not only restores Amy back to life, but now she looks like Kate Upton. The curse is also lifted on Peter Dinklage, and he's transformed into Zac Enron. Fade out. Closing title reads. They lived happily ever after.....

Yancey Ward said...

It is kind of shocking this movie got the greenlight, though criticizing the overweight still isn't verboten- think about "People of Walmart" and the kinds of people who delight in it for the most part. It would have seemed safer, in my opinion, to just make Snow White hag-like, though that might have tripped some other PC outrage.

Althouse wrote:

"By the way, I'm reading a book called "How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read."

Ummm.....I can think of literally hundreds of people I have spoken to or read comments from that should probably actually read that.

tcrosse said...

Speaking of creepy little peepers, here's Billy Barty (at 2:03) in Gold Diggers of 1933.

'Creepy Peeper'

Billy never got taller than 3'9", but had a long career, and seems to have developed a leer in his childhood.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Call me cynical, but if you go to this movie expecting the princess to stay thin at the end of the flick, you're going to be screaming false advertising. Notice that they are only complaining about how the movie is being "marketed."

JAORE said...

Isn't a lot of fashion marketing saying just what the flick does?

Wear my dress, wear my (red) shoes, dab on my perfume and you will be beautiful and so will your life.

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