June 22, 2017

Trump reveals that he doesn't have and did not make "'tapes' or recordings" of his conversations with James Comey.

Trump comes out with a 2-part tweet today:
With all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, intercepts, unmasking and illegal leaking of information, I have no idea...

...whether there are "tapes" or recordings of my conversations with James Comey, but I did not make, and do not have, any such recordings.
Trump originally tweeted back on May 12th:
James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!
A couple weeks ago, after Comey's testimony, Trump said that he'd tell us soon whether there were tapes and reporters were "going to be very disappointed with the answer." We did a poll back then about why he was being coy and not just telling us whether or not there were recordings. Here are the poll results:



Some readers observed that the first and third responses could both be true. I think that's probably right. It certainly did restrict Comey's testimony. At one point, Comey said "Lordy, I hope there are tapes," and some people took that to mean I hope there are tapes because they will prove me right, but I thought that statement could just as well mean I hope there are tapes because otherwise I'm unnecessarily restricting myself.

At the time of Trump's May 12th tweet — the original "Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes'" —  I thought it was interesting that he put "tapes" in quotes and said:
Is that to fend off inquiry into whether actual tape is used in making recordings? I remember when he famously tweeted that Obama "had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower," and later he — and others — made much of the quotation marks.
In today's tweet, he put "tapes" in quotes again but doesn't leave us wondering if he's hedging somehow. He makes it "'tapes' or recordings," with "recordings" not in quotes.

But Trump does leave some ambiguity with respect to whether there could be tapes that someone else made. He's not always so scrupulous about distinguishing between what he knows personally and what he has heard. For example, a few days ago, Trump tweeted that he's under investigation, but (according to his lawyer) he only meant that he saw that The Washington Post report that an anonymous source said that. Trump didn't personally know. Today's tweet acknowledges the strict factual reality that there could be recordings that Trump doesn't know about. I don't know if he wrote like that because he's become more precise and lawyerly in his use of language. Another motive to write that way is that he wanted to take a jab at the overreaching deep state. He succumbed to the temptation to insinuate that there are intelligence people who might record him without his knowledge.

By succumbing like that, he left open a loophole that a truly lawyerly writer would have seen and plugged. Today's tweet leaves open the possibility that he knows of recordings that he didn't make — because someone else did — and he doesn't have those recordings, but either: 1. Someone else is preserving those recordings or 2. Those recordings have been wiped (like with a cloth or something).

235 comments:

1 – 200 of 235   Newer›   Newest»
Chuck said...

I don't care about Trump's Tweets any more. They are such garbage in their drafting, and so loose with basic facts, and so deceptive in their intent. Who gives a rip?

All I care about is what happens to Trump, under oath, with the boot of the Department of Justice on his neck. And to a bit of a lesser extent, what happens with the formal responses to Congress in their investigations.

I've seen transcripts of Trump under oath in a couple of his civil cases. He's a wreck, as a sworn witness under cross examination. A defense attorney's nightmare.

rhhardin said...

There's also being completely uninterested whether there are tapes and what Trump knows.

The sand in the gearbox of the MSM is the important thing.

robother said...

Lordy, Chuck. That's not going to make America great again.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I took Trump's comment... Better hope there aren't any tapes ....in the same way you take your Dad's comment during a long hot car trip.....Don't make me stop this car and come back there

:-D

The liberals are so literal it is not even funny. Get a grip.

Achilles said...

Trump is showing everyone how to defenestrate a corrupt bureaucracy teamed up with a compliant press.

Troll level: best ever.

David Begley said...

Lordy, Ann. Comey is reading your blog right now and realizes your last paragraph is true.

Alex said...

It's only a matter of time before the narrative 'Trump is Nixon' arrives.

Mountain Maven said...

Troll, Presidential Level.
Every Day his Administration accomplishes something. It's rarely publicized. Today the AHCA is revealed. Earlier this week DACA repealed.
What what he does. The tweets also serve a purpose
All The Winning.

Ann Althouse said...

Oddly enough, the tweets are my favorite thing about Trump.

Mountain Maven said...

Comey can now come out of his Moscow hidey hole

jrapdx said...

Reading the tweets Trump sent out today, how much doubt can there be about what he meant? While a number of interpretations of such short messages are always possible, it's a stretch to say Trump was being ambiguous or coyly suggesting recordings of conversations exist but owned by someone else.

I suppose recordings could exist in some deep state Twilight Zone scenario, but the meaning of "I have no idea" seems straightforward enough to take at face value.

Achilles said...

Blogger Chuck said...
"I don't care about Trump's Tweets any more. They are such garbage in their drafting, and so loose with basic facts, and so deceptive in their intent. Who gives a rip?"

Of course you don't Chuck.

"All I care about is what happens to Trump, under oath, with the boot of the Department of Justice on his neck. And to a bit of a lesser extent, what happens with the formal responses to Congress in their investigations."

The mask slips again.

After you get Trump Chuck will be trying to get the teabaggers too. Then there will be a proper investigation into Barron's autism. Sorry Chuck Hillary will never be president no matter how hard you try.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The best Trump tweets work because they could be serious or they could be in jest, and they most often are both. He is the best twit on twitter.

Unknown said...

Duh, this so-called man is today the President of the United States and he is playing "bluff" with the FBI.

It is equally likely that Trump did make "tapes" but realized now they are worthless as Comey also recorded and kept notes.

The bigger point is that Trump's original tweet about the "tapes" was to threaten Comey which is witness tampering.



n.n said...

WaPo still insists that it did not open Americans to global retributive change, and that it did not employ liberal doses of innuendo, speculation, projection, and invention from whole cloth in order to carry out a baby trial for Trump, to undermine the constitution, and disenfranchise other Americans.

Chuck said...

After you get Trump Chuck will be trying to get the teabaggers too. Then there will be a proper investigation into Barron's autism. Sorry Chuck Hillary will never be president no matter how hard you try.

Barron Trump is not autistic. Trump family lawyers declared it:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/melania-trump-threatens-lawsuit-over-barron-autism-video-w452617

So it would now be a complete surprise, and wildly contrary to the Trump family lawyers' written declaration in a cease-and-desist letter, if Barron were revealed to be on the autism spectrum.

Bay Area Guy said...

It is more likely that Trump was "taped" by the NSA, then Trump taped anyone himself.

Recall -- Flynn, briefly, was head of the NSA. And, he, himself, was "taped" during the transition period.

Virtually Unknown said...

Another motive to write that way is that he wanted to take a jab at the overreaching deep state. He succumbed to the temptation to insinuate that there are intelligence people who might record him without his knowledge.

This is what I thought at the time. Barrack Milhouse Obama was using the IRS to extract information from the political opposition and handing it over to political allies, was using the NSA to spy on Americans, etc, etc.. Not sure why the tweets are what bother people about recent presidential behavior.

Michael said...

Trump is the tweetmeister. Lefty heads spin in unison, Linda Blair-like, when twitter alights with one of his masterful bits of trolling mixed with half truths that make the real truth so very clear. We laugh out loud at them. They are perfectly pitched to grate on the likes of Chuck who no longer reads them. Har.

rhhardin said...

Too late for the WaPo subscription sale. It ended today.

There will be another one tomorrow.

Virtually Unknown said...

The bigger point is that Trump's original tweet about the "tapes" was to threaten Comey which is witness tampering

HA HA HA! Are you one of those guys who also thinks blocking people on Twitter is "unconstitutional? You realize how unhinged you guys sound? No, you don't.

wwww said...



the tweets are boring & predictable.

look at the tapes! don't look at heath care! chase the squirrels!!!! good doggie good!

Michael said...

There was no "collusion" with Russia (remember that? Seems like a long time ago doesn't it?). There was no "obstruction of justice" . Hillary is not President. Trump will serve two terms. The stock market is roaring. Sprint recommitted to 50,000 U.S. jobs (and not for millionaires and billionaires: remember when that was the phrase used for anyone making over $200,000 a year? They were millionairesandbillionaires.), Those will be jobs for normals.

Trump is having a blast winning. Same here.

Michael said...

"The bigger point is that Trump's original tweet about the "tapes" was to threaten Comey which is witness tampering."

Well, that is only the half of it. By sending the tweet out to the whole world he was jury tampering as well. Twofer.

LOL. You really have gone over the cliff, Dude.

robother said...

Or, each recording begins with "These are not the tapes you're looking for."

MayBee said...

When Trump tweeted that, it had already been established Flynn's conversation with Russian diplomats had been taped. Trump's conversation with the Australian Prime Minister had already been leaked. So I always took that tweet to mean exactly what it said- that tapes could exist. Trump has no idea who is taping his conversations, or how they are leaking. He was trying to convey that Comey was misleading- which he was!!

robother said...

"The bigger point is that Trump's original tweet about the "tapes" was to threaten Comey which is witness tampering."

I guess in the same sense that making witnesses swear under penalty of perjury is witness tampering.

readering said...

I was more interested today in the video of Trump driving his cart all over one of his golf course greens. More vivid evidence of him sloppy and heedless.

MayBee said...

If you were Trump, and you watched the whole media melt down over a private convesation he had with a Russian Diplomat in the oval office, wouldn't you think someone is possibly taping you?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

So it would now be a complete surprise, and wildly contrary to the Trump family lawyers' written declaration in a cease-and-desist letter, if Barron were revealed to be on the autism spectrum.

And who gives a flying fuck if a 10 year old kid is a nerd on the autism spectrum? If true....besides so what....it would probably generate more sympathy for the Trump family than generate harm.

I would hope that the liberal progressives would have the common human decency to not pick on a vulnerable 10 year old child.

Hope. But I don't have high hopes.

MikeD said...

So what?

MayBee said...

The bigger point is that Trump's original tweet about the "tapes" was to threaten Comey which is witness tampering

Seems to me it was a courtesy to Comey so he wouldn't commit perjury. Why else would Comey finally have admitted the thing he sent his minions out to deny- that he had told Trump 3 times he was not under investigation.

Virtually Unknown said...
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Virtually Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rt1 Rebel said...

"The bigger point is that Trump's original tweet about the "tapes" was to threaten Comey which is witness tampering."

Trump didn't say he had "tapes," he didn't even imply it. Trump was sarcastically implying that "The Swamp" may have "tapes." In light of all of the spy vs spy shit and all of the leaking that has been going on for months, please explain how you as a prosecutor could find Obstruction of Justice in that tweet? IMO, the tweet was brilliant. It held Comey in check, who outed himself as a leaker, and it was vague enough to mean nothing at all.

Virtually Unknown said...

> I was more interested today in the video of Trump driving his cart all over one of his golf course greens. More vivid evidence > > of him sloppy and heedless.

LOL! Arnald Palmer used to do stuff like that on his course. Handicapped players are allowed to drive carts on the greens. It only becomes a problem if the number of people doing it gets large. I don't think it was a particularly good look except he is POTUS and Hillary is not, so it won't change my vote.

Run somebody who is not a venal crook with a rapist husband and with zero respect for the Constitution next time! Talk about heedless, attacking her husband's victims... Try not to run somebody who made hundreds of millions of dollars off of their office next. time. Just a suggestion.

Virtually Unknown said...

Another suggestion would be "Don't think it would be fun if you could ram a candidate that half of America hates down their nasty little throats!" as a political strategy. It's a loser. If half of America hates your candidate, pick someone else who can pick off a few Republicans. No individual has a "right" to be POTUS unless they win the election.

Ralph L said...

Admiral Moorer, CNO in the Nixon admin., had the Navy personnel running WH comms secretly send him a copy of everything.

Matthew Sablan said...

If this is witness tampering, what isn't?

n.n said...

Another tape, another witch. Still no baby. The stork is either late or did not invent something viable.

Hagar said...

It is equally likely that Trump did make "tapes" but realized now they are worthless as Comey also recorded and kept notes.

Oh, oh! You think Comey had a recorder on him?

Matthew Sablan said...

I don't get it. Why do people think Trump lied about having tapes? He clearly said he'd tell us later. Now he did. Are people that unable to understand him?

chuck said...

First and third responses, and I'd add one that is missing: joking. Trump makes a lot of jokes like that, in this case referencing the Nixon tapes. I think that sense of playfulness is pretty much missed by the MSM, who all take themselves terribly seriously and can't imagine the president at play.

Qwinn said...

I know I'm old fashioned, but I always thought of witness tampering as coercing a witness to lie.

Apparently, it now also extends to tricking a witness into *not* lying.

I'm sure we'll soon learn why tricking a witness into not lying in service of the prog agenda is an outrage.

Inga said...

"Oddly enough, the tweets are my favorite thing about Trump."

Me too, keep 'em coming!

MaxedOutMama said...

Well, no, Trump says he has "no idea" whether there are recordings. That means he does not know of any.

Doug said...

Every time Trump uttered the word"hope", Come was frightened, and liberals went ape shit crazy. Who said, "'Hope' is a lousy strategy"?

Doug said...

*Comey*

Hagar said...

CBS made a comment about whether Trump had a "Nixon style" recording system, but I think Nixon still had the one Bobby Kennedy installed.

MayBee said...

Jonah Goldberg- whom I usually enjoy- was just on Fox trying to sell the idea that it would be disgusting for Trump to imply the intelligence community was taping him without his knowledge.

That might have sold before the IC started leaking about Trump's conversations in the Oval, private conversations with Comey about fake dossiers, and recordings with the Russian embassy.

MaxedOutMama said...

I agree that a lawyer wrote the tweet. First thing I thought when I saw the phrasing was "That's not Trump!"

Matthew Sablan said...

Wow. Apparently someone leaked after Congress promised not to. This is ridiculous.

Rabel said...

It's a response to this.

rcocean said...

Yeah, its been hilarious the way Trump played the MSM on this. He NEVER said he had "tapes" of Comey but the MSM went thru the following:

1- This tweet means Trump has tapes!
2- We demand Trump release the tapes.
3- He's not releasing the tapes - Its another Watergate !!!
4- If he has Tapes - he's in big legal trouble -regardless.
5- He doesn't have the tapes.
6- Trump is a Liar!

Fun times.

Unknown said...

Poor chucky, he is going to be so disappointed in 4 years.

rcocean said...

"Jonah Goldberg- whom I usually enjoy-"

Goldberg hates Trump and supported Hillary. He's refused to support Trump, even after Trump got elected, and continues to hate and criticize him at every turn.

He's a #FakeConservative" - who'd be happier if Hillary was POTUS.

MSNBC should hire him and Kristol to join Will.

Unknown said...

". Sorry Chuck Hillary will never be president no matter how hard you try."

Heh..and also

. Sorry Chuck Bernie will never be president no matter how hard you try.

rcocean said...

I love how people are saying "Trump was trying to intimidate a witness".

Yeah, that's right - Trump was trying to "intimidate" him into telling the truth.

Of course, all Trump had to do was shake Comey's hand and Comey got scared. So, there's that.

Fen said...

Chuck, what fever swamps have you been mucking about in to have so much inside baseball info on whether President Trump's 11 year old child is autistic?

That's creepy.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"Yeah, its been hilarious the way Trump played the MSM on this. He NEVER said he had "tapes" of Comey but the MSM went thru the following:

1- This tweet means Trump has tapes!
2- We demand Trump release the tapes.
3- He's not releasing the tapes - Its another Watergate !!!
4- If he has Tapes - he's in big legal trouble -regardless.
5- He doesn't have the tapes.
6- Trump is a Liar!

Fun times."

Assuming this is 100% correct, presumably the "fun" thing is that DJT says stuff to troll the media.


Thankfully, from your POV, DJT is POTUS. I don't think that any others would have concocted this scheme you're describing. Ya gots the right dude for the job, as you define the job of POTUS-ing.



Carry on.

Rabel said...

!. White House has a taping system.
2. White house does not have a taping system.
3. Would you believe...

Earnest Prole said...

Trump’s taping tweet was a shot over the bow, a little NASCAR love tap, encouraging Comey to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in his Congressional testimony.

glenn said...

Made You Look.

Inga said...

Whatever Trump meant by his tweet about hoping there were no tapes, who really cares? It provoked the appointment of a special counsel, it's all good. Trump didn't expect that outcome.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

How much does he have to lie and bullshit for you to stop seeing it as a media "thing" or a game, but actually a severe deficit in the needed character for leading the country?

Look at how many paragraphs you waste trying to glean some kind of insight into his stupid and deranged mind, when the big picture is that the majority of the country long ago wrote off the possibility that he could still have the one thing that matters in a president: Credibility.

It really seems like some basic honesty doesn't matter to you in that office. Some comparative politics could cure you of that apathy, especially when comparing the degree to which the truth becomes a casualty of power in despotic regimes vs. in decent, stable republics.

If you're not concerned which part of that spectrum we fall into, might I suggest a nice handful of sub-Saharan, Asian and east European countries in which you could analyze the leader's many psychological twists and turns to justify his lies till your heart's content.

Most of the rest of us, however, will still choose to live in a country called "America," which has nothing in common with those places politically, and never did.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Whatever Trump meant by his tweet about hoping there were no tapes, who really cares? It provoked the appointment of a special counsel, it's all good. Trump didn't expect that outcome.

There you go, seeing the big picture once again.

These conservatives don't care for that, though. They're concerned with the many insignificant and picayune trifles that help distract them from the things that actually matter.

Virtually Unknown said...

It really seems like some basic honesty doesn't matter to you in that office

Oh it matters alright, but what were our choices? And having a liar seemed to work out fine in your opinion over the last eight years. It's a kakistocracy, through and through.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"Trump’s taping tweet was a shot over the bow, a little NASCAR love tap, encouraging Comey to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth in his Congressional testimony."

So, does this mean that Comey did tell the truth? IOW, where his testimony differs from DJT's claims (e.g. the loyalty oath), DJT is 100% lying? Or, do ya gotta back off of the claim that this DJT tape talk was planned by DJT to force Comey to tell the truth? Since Comey musta been lying when he said stuff disputed by "honest Donald."



Virtually Unknown said...

They're concerned with the many insignificant and picayune trifles that help distract them from the things that actually matter.

Like Tweets?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I would hope that the liberal progressives would have the common human decency -

That Trump has? No, they have much more than that.

But he's playing a scorched earth policy, and his party's been playing that game and itching for a showdown with it for decades.

All bets should be off the table. As long as it's within the law, the other side should use it if it can take him and his party down.

Making fun of an autistic kid probably won't do any good, but that's probably not the sort of thing the party would do anyway, duh. Regardless, however, it is interesting that the party that has such a deficit relating to people generally is always so filled with autistics, narcissists and sociopaths. From a sociological perspective, it makes complete sense.

But it's a shit way to run a country. Politics being the art of dealing with people, and all.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Like Tweets?

They're obviously the only way he feels comfortable communicating his intentions, and a president's communications and intentions matter. If nothing else, they're part of the tremendous arsenal of the record of what he's said and thought that can be used against him in every way. He doesn't get to have things both ways. If he puts it out there, it's to be assumed he means what he says. It's not like he has normal human mannerisms indicating sarcasm or humor. It's just that he wants to have everything both ways - to neither mean nor not mean what he says. To have no accountability. But he won't get to have things both ways and he won't get to evade accountability. Hillary didn't and neither will he.

Here's a nice little example:

"If I had been the son of a coal miner, I would have left the damn mines. But most people don't have the imagination – or whatever – to leave their mine. They don't have 'it.'"

He's on the record and his trail of breadcrumbs is as damning as anything Hillary ever did or said. When he's brought down it will be the ugliest thing you ever saw.

Or else he can hamstring himself with an army of personal attorneys he's hired to watch over and control his every move. Either way it is a failed presidency by definition.

Matthew Sablan said...

What? Trump's tweet had no impact on the appointment of a special counsel. That happened because Comey leaked about his alleged conversation, a thing that happened with or without the tweet.

Fen said...

Somebody fire up the popcorn. Ritmo and Inga are going to give a lecture on Credibility.

This should be great.

Chuck said...

Fen said...
Chuck, what fever swamps have you been mucking about in to have so much inside baseball info on whether President Trump's 11 year old child is autistic?

That's creepy.

I don't have any inside information. I never claimed to have any inside information. I don't know whether Barron is autistic. I never claimed to know. All that I know is that the Trump family rolled out their heaviest-hitter lawyers to shut down a YouTube page offered up by an autism activist who is himself on the spectrum by all accounts (including his own). That was mentioned in the link that I already offered up above.

Do you recall why this came up, twice, many months ago?

The first time was when, in a presidential primary debate, Trump verbally wandered into the fraught debate that vaccines cause autism. Trump was making plaintive noises about how you have a beautiful child and then after a series of pediatric immunizations, that child is no longer the same. That theory is one of the most exhaustively debunked theories in all of pediatrics, if not all of modern science.

The second time was after the election, when Trump was receiving a series of unlikely guests in Trump Tower. Among the weirdest was vaccine conspiracy theorist (and general left-wing nutball) Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who promptly reported to the world that he and Trump agreed that there would be a national commission on vaccines and autism (when in fact we already have standing committees of various jurisdictional authority on all of the aspects of that issue). The adults in the Trump campaign hastily shut the story down. There can be no question about why Trump agreed to speak to Kennedy at all, however.

I don't know anything about Barron Trump, other than that I've never heard him utter a single word, or seen any detailed story on his life. Not that we are owed such a story.

But what I do think is that this whole affair goes deep into the profoundly twisted psyche of Donald Trump. I happen to think, that Trump thinks, that something bad is to blame for Barron. And that Trump is incapable of dealing with something like this, in which the only way that Trump can even face it is as a matter of personal shame, which he just can't handle.

My concern was that Trump might just deal with it in the way that writers Ron Suskind or Ron Fournier dealt with it. With humanity, humility, understanding, nuance, sensitivity and grace. None of those qualities are even within earshot of Trump's crazed head. Trump has dealt with it (I presume) by lawyering up, threatening litigation and denying the underlying facts.

Which is perfect, for my purposes. It's such a great thing, that Trump lawyers have issued the blanket denial that Barron is autistic. Because that fact won't ever allow Trump to deal with it in a humane way. He will have transparently denied the truth because of his own personal egomaniacal shame.

I don't wish any harm or difficulty or embarrassment for Barron. I am just hoping that his father is humiliated in the most comprehensive and personal ways possible.

You can buy Ron Fournier's book ("Love that Boy") and Ron Suskind's book ("Life, Animated") through the Althouse Amazon portal, linked at the top-right of the Althouse home page.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

What? Trump's tweet had no impact on the appointment of a special counsel.

As impossible as this multiple-personalities character is to follow, I think it had something to do with his Lowness's plain and openly public admission to Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of "Rusher", as if that weren't all the evidence anyone would need.

khesanh0802 said...

A couple of weeks ago it was rumored that in the communications reorganization Trump would have a lawyer reviewing his Tweets with him. I don't see all his tweets, but those I do see seem a little more temperate than 3 months ago. Either someone is holding him in check or Trump has learned better how to present his case. If pressed I would have to think that both things are happening.

Humperdink said...

Ritmo declared: ".... the one thing that matters in a president: Credibility."

The prior administration's signature achievement was healthcare reform. It was such a milestone accomplishment that it is affectionately named by the left as Obamacare. And how did Obama get it passed? He lied his ossoff.

Recall this? "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it." It was awarded Lie of the Year in 2013.

Who said this about Obamacare? “The lack of transparency is a huge political advantage” and that “the stupidity of the American voter . . . was really, really critical for the thing to pass.” Why, none other than the architect of Obamacare, Jonathan Gruber.

Tell me again about credibility.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

This should be great.

As great as your lectures on non-violent conflict resolution.

Oh, that's right. You basically belong either in prison or under some other violent person's command, Riyadh Mall Rent-a Cop.

You need a bumper sticker that says, "Civilian Life Sucks. Why did no one convince me to commit suicide as a teen?"

Matthew Sablan said...

If you think that's what he said to Holt you haven't listened or read the interview. If Trump fired him over Russia, why does Comey admit Trump wanted the investigation completed and why testify the White House never interfered?

Virtually Unknown said...

Either way it is a failed presidency by definition.

He will get Keystone built.
He has appointed a Supreme Court justice.
Already illegal immigration is down, relieving downward pressure on the wages of low skilled workers.
Hillary is not president.

I am sure he will fail to do the stuff you want a POTUS to do, that's a given. So what?

He's on the record and his trail of breadcrumbs is as damning as anything Hillary ever did or said.

"We came! We saw! He died! (Chortle, guffaw!)" - HRC

Jay Elink said...

Chuck said : "All I care about is what happens to Trump, under oath, with the boot of the Department of Justice on his neck. And to a bit of a lesser extent, what happens with the formal responses to Congress in their investigations."

********************

Chuck purportedly a lawyer, thinks the POTUS must testify under oath to a Special Counsel for which there is NO statutory authority.

He further thinks the DOJ, who actually work for the POTUS, are superior to him and could force him to testify.

Snort!

Fen said...

"That's probably not the sort of thing the Democrat Party would do anyway"

Secret Service just detained another Democrat copycat assassin who declared he has a plan to assassinate President Trump over your fake Russian Collusion story.

GOP Congressman's wife and daughter just got death threats as a result of your Elizabeth Warren's hate-mongering the new health bill will "murder" millions of Americans

Hope you and Inga are proud of yourselves.

And I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Democrats can't keep their hands off an 11 year old boy.

Virtually Unknown said...

At least 34 people, including young children, have died after their vessel capsized off Libya's coast, the Italian coastguard says.

About 200 people fell off the overloaded vessel that was just 20 nautical miles (37km) in the Mediterranean Sea from Libya when the accident occurred on Wednesday.

The crew of the Phoenix aid boat, chartered by the Malta-based NGO Migrant Offshore Aid Station (MOAS), had begun the rescue and were distributing lifejackets when many of those on deck fell into the water, perhaps knocked off balance by a wave.

"It's not a scene from a horror movie, it's a real-life tragedy that is taking place today at the gates of Europe," said Chris Catrambone, MOAS co-founder, who was aboard the Phoenix.
. - Al Jazeera May 24 2017

The gift that keeps on giving. Sorry, Trump has a ways to go to match destabilizing Libya, ratcheting up the civil war in Syria, and hitting Europe with a refugee wave that has destabilized the EU.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

The prior administration's signature achievement was healthcare reform. It was such a milestone accomplishment that it is affectionately named by the left as Obamacare. And how did Obama get it passed? He lied his ossoff.

You obviously don't know what a fact is. No pre-existing exclusions, expanding the pool, bending the ever-increasing cost curve down. Anything he had to say about it was right. Plus, the Democrats never kept the authoring of the bill in secret. Allowed more debate on it than these fly-by-night Republicowards are allowing, never mind the fact that they'd tried to shut to press out.

Recall this? "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it."

I really don't - for a simple reason: Only fools and simpletons who don't understand insurance thought that this off-the-cuff remake meant that he would keep insurance plans from changing policies. You need a dunce cap if you actually think it meant that he could (or anyone could) hamstring companies into not having provider contracts. It simply meant that the ACA wasn't going to mandate who you could or could not see.

It was awarded Lie of the Year in 2013.

By whom? BY the easily confused liar that you are?

Who said this about Obamacare? “The lack of transparency is a huge political advantage” and that “the stupidity of the American voter . . . was really, really critical for the thing to pass.” Why, none other than the architect of Obamacare, Jonathan Gruber.

So, instead of it being a Republican gutting Medicare to pay the graft of his donor, it was someone who wasn't even holding elected office.

Tell me again about credibility.

I sure will. I'll say that an idiot who doesn't apply different standards to elected officials than to the unelected officials he confuses them with, has no fucking credibility whatsoever.

Get a clue, Republicoward. You cowards have wanted to end Medicaid for decades. Let's see what happens if you MidEast warmongers get your wish and follow through with your War on the Poor.

FullMoon said...

Interesting that the articulate Trump haters show up crying, hoping for the worst, and projecting disaster. Nothing at all has happened since the election to affect them personally. In fact, a few of them better off financially, 4401k and stock market wise. Yet, they wake up every morning full of hate and anxiety, checking the blogs to reinforce their convictions, hoping to make a comment that will to ease their pain.

Sad.

Rabel said...

Hi, Ritmo. How's it hanging, Buddy.

I must say, you seem a little tense lately. But you did make two very good points at 7:29 and 7:31.

One was in recognizing that America truly is an exceptional country. Some of us see Trump as a last-ditch attempt to keep it that way. And if you watch what Trump does and not what he says I think you'll find that he's moving in more or less the right direction. That will be a hard thing for you to do, but give it a try.

Which bring up good point two. You said, "They're concerned with the many insignificant and picayune trifles that help distract them from the things that actually matter."

Exactly. But you misidentified what those "insignificant and picayune trifles" (nice phrase) are. The tweets, the hyperbole, the puffery we see from Trump - those things are the trifles. I've seen a lot of your writing and you and Trump are not that far apart in mindset.

Watch his actions and make a rational judgement based on that. Don't let the trolls here drag you down into their personal Hells.

Matthew Sablan said...

If you don't recall how secretive the ACA drafting was, you may need to review recent history.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

He will get Keystone built.

He will not get enough coal jobs to come close to rivaling those in other energy sectors, and I have a feeling it'll be the same with those oil jobs.

He has appointed a Supreme Court justice.

Oh wow. Something a dog could do. Let alone any and pretty much every president.

Already illegal immigration is down, relieving downward pressure on the wages of low skilled workers.

Show me the stats on those wages, Sparky. And illegal immigration was down under all eight years of Obama. But I get it, you hate Mexicans. Just not Saudi Arabians.

Humperdink said...

I knew it was a fools errand. My bad. I violated my own Ritmo rule. Good night all.

Fen said...

Chuck denies intimate knowledge of President's son, then gives 12 paragraphs proving otherwise.

Pass the popcorn please.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Secret Service just detained another Democrat copycat assassin who declared he has a plan to assassinate President Trump over your fake Russian Collusion story.

GOP Congressman's wife and daughter just got death threats as a result of your Elizabeth Warren's hate-mongering the new health bill will "murder" millions of Americans

Hope you and Inga are proud of yourselves.

And I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Democrats can't keep their hands off an 11 year old boy.


Check out the paranoid, conspiratorial rant, everybody! Looks like the swamp that most desperately needs draining is in the head of this looney calling himself "Fem."

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I knew it was a fools errand. My bad. I violated my own Ritmo rule. Good night all.

Yup. I provided facts and they discredited your stupid fantasies. But at least you got to air them.

Fen said...

We'll be fumigating the joint over the next hour, so finish up those drinks, regulars.

Don't forget to retain your ticket stubs for The Inga Show! scheduled at 11pm sharp.

Jack Wayne said...

Oddly, life-long Republican cites 2 democrat apparatchiks in support of his fervent hope that Barron is treated properly by his father. This is so creepy as to raise the hair on my arm. Disgusting!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Hi Rabel. And thanks for the advice. As far as it stands, I'll try. I might let my tongue get me carried away, but I'd like to think I'm at least different enough from 45 to care for what the truth is, and to understand that it might conflict from time to time with what I'd like to be true. Perhaps I understand him well enough to know what it is to have a mouth active enough to allow you to get away with things that a normal person wouldn't. But far be it from me to allow that to permit me with getting away with everything I could think of. That would be boring, if nothing else.

Constraints can sometimes free us. Look at how free "Fem" feels - and he's the most tied-down bootlicker this blog has ever seen. He feels free to be as unhinged a lunatic as they come.

But I'm talking about a freedom that's harmonious with reality. Objectivity is a worthy goal to have in life for any competent, thinking person.

Bad Lieutenant said...

This is so creepy as to raise the hair on my arm. Disgusting!

Can you imagine what LLR looks like IRL? Bet he's a dead ringer for Paul Krugman, complete with the coprophage glare.

Virtually Unknown said...

Show me the stats on those wages, Sparky.

So you don't believe in the law of supply and demand?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/feds-closing-shelters-as-illegal-immigration-drops-under-trump/article/2626643

Some prominent liberals used to talk about the potential negative effect of immigration on low-wage workers, and the damage to the rule of law from illegal immigration. Beinart correctly identifies a major reason for this shift: Democrats came to think that immigration and their support for it were going to help lead them to big political victories.

I know you love your class snobbery and think that anybody who suggests that maybe even "white trash" have a right to some protections from the untrammeled forces of globalism is a RAAYCIST! Got it.

Here is a guy who explicitly says what the Bourgeois Revolutionary and class snob seems to believe:

Stephens’s column, on the other hand, is valuable as an illustration of a viewpoint that is rarely voiced so explicitly. Much of his column is dedicated to the idea that a lot of immigrants (legal and illegal) are more praiseworthy in various ways than a lot of Americans. That point is inarguable, and some immigration critics could probably use the reminder. But he jumps from that idea to the much less sensible one—which he makes entirely in earnest, dropping his Swiftian conceit—that the country belongs first and foremost to its newcomers. The idea that we may owe something to our fellow Americans that we do not owe to foreigners, however deplorable some of the former and laudable some of the latter may be, is notable for its absence from this article. Which is to say, the idea of national allegiance is absent from it.

I have no problem with legal immigration but yeah, I don't like lawbreaking scabs crossing the border to undercut our own workers.

Inga said...

"What? Trump's tweet had no impact on the appointment of a special counsel. That happened because Comey leaked about his alleged conversation, a thing that happened with or without the tweet."

Jeez Matthew. Trump tweets that Comey better hope there are no tapes, which prompts Comey to "leak" part of his own notes, which in turn prompted the appointment of a Special Counsel by Rosenstein. Sorry that the progression isn't obvious to you, it is to everyone else. Trump shot himself in the foot with that tweet. Thanks Trump.

Rabel said...

Thanks for the response. The back and forth arguments here which usually break down into insult slams are idiotic. Now, just because you do something idiotic once or twice doesn't mean you're an idiot. Just because you sleep with the Badger backfield doesn't mean you're a slut. But it is something to keep an eye on.

Fen said...

Ritmo: "I provided facts - "

No dear. Those were opinions.

You supplied no facts to support your assertion about the coal industry.

You supplied no facts to support your assertion that even a dog could appoint his nom to SCOTUS. And you inadvertently insulted Obama, as he failed his most recent attempt


Now, if you could get back to busing the tables, your crush is coming on stage at 11 to do an improv comedy sbout Canadian timber imports.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

You can restrict immigration all you want, whoever you are ("Virtually Unknown?") It will only get you so far. And let's never mind the fact that it's all tied up with his ass-backwards entry restrictions - where actual terrorists and jihadist ideology exporters Saudi Arabia get as much entry as Trump's businesses desire. But the Iranians who merely only supply us with scientists instead of terrorists don't.

Finally, it'll be great to see how much wage growth (which isn't happening anyway, W. Examiner is not an unbiased fact-focused fact repository) will be used to offset the huge toll you want to take on the technology and science that drives our economy to be the best in the world. We will manufacture all sorts of things that robots will be making, and none of the brainpower for figuring out what to make next. Genius strategy, conserva-trog.

Your hatred is overpowering whatever capacity for reason you should be putting to use in this newest of newfound pretend-concerns of yours: The plight of the working class. Make sure you figure out to explain to them how taking away their Medicaid and giving the funds for it to a billionaire is the right thing for them.

Matthew Sablan said...

Comey was leaking that anyway.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

You supplied no facts to support your assertion about the coal industry.

You want 'em? I got 'em. Suffice it to say that Mulvaney lied his ass off about the numbers.

But I ain't wasting a single fact on a violent turd who actually thinks that teen suicide is an under appreciated thing, and something that should cause us sympathy to people who encourage it.

I ain't wasting a single fact on a do-do who thinks Mid-East wars that Arabian oil sheikhs get America to fight for them are under-appreciated, either.

Your worldview is too warped to allow you the posture of a serious fact considerer. So none of them will be wasted on you. You tell yourself enough lies anyway. Rely on those. Apparently they've done your life wonders. That life of yours that you think it was wrong to continue with after age 18.

Matthew Sablan said...

Facts don't get used up. They're not like health potions.

Virtually Unknown said...

Your hatred is overpowering whatever capacity for reason you should be putting to use in this newest of newfound pretend-concerns of yours: The plight of the working class.

I know you make up lies to tell yourself to make yourself feel better. That's fine, I guess we all do it somewhat, but seldom so publicly. Anybody who thinks that what will help the working class is more wage competition is no friend of the working class, no matter what lies they tell themselves. You might look in the mirror regarding hatred overpowering reason.

To your credit, you didn't make excuses for Hillary's war-mongering.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Pruitt's doing a great job getting as much employment in coal as were laid off by JC Penney.

This is an administration with priorities!

19th century priorities.

traditionalguy said...

Everybody knows there are tapes. Susan Rice still has them stashed in the Obama Presidential Library along with the ones Obama threaten Biden into not running with.

DJT is tormenting the CIA guys by proving he is not afraid of them. That is a trait of character mixed with skill that only Trump brings to the table. Now deal the hand.

Virtually Unknown said...

will be used to offset the huge toll you want to take on the technology and science that drives our economy to be the best in the world. We will manufacture all sorts of things that robots will be making, and none of the brainpower for figuring out what to make next. Genius strategy, conserva-trog.

So what does this have to do with flooding the bottom of the market with low wage workers?

Laslo Spatula said...

"So what does this have to do with flooding the bottom...?"

Indeed.

I am Laslo.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Anybody who thinks that what will help the working class is more wage competition is no friend of the working class, no matter what lies they tell themselves.

Am I one of the folks here saying unregulated market capitalist competition is the answer for everything? No. Of course not. None of the left-wing people repeat anything so blunderingly narrow and wrong.

But we don't need to stop being a leader in growth, which is in tech. It's also in energy. Not really old energy, though. The kind of energy that doesn't leaden our streams or trap excessive heat in our air. The kind of energy that you don't need property rights to extract.

You might look in the mirror regarding hatred overpowering reason.

Maybe. Sometimes I have as much of both.

To your credit, you didn't make excuses for Hillary's war-mongering.

Thanks. I'd like to think some good deeds don't go unnoticed.

I just am not interested in making any more excuses for Trump than I never made for Hillary, either. Just because he won doesn't mean whatever he does is golden, let alone that I need to assume as much without evidence.

Virtually Unknown said...

Pruitt's doing a great job getting as much employment in coal as were laid off by JC Penney.

This is an administration with priorities!


Coal jobs are away better than JC Penney's jobs. Plus, Penney's is doomed by the tech billionaires. Coal was only killed by regulations.

The Obama policy, which Hillary promised to continue, of creating scarcity of hydrocarbon based energy to drive up prices was exactly what Putin wanted BTW. Even Hillary said in one of her famous leaked paid speeches that Putin was funding a lot of the opposition to the pipeline she killed for him. If the pipeline doesn't create that many jobs, cheap energy will create a lot more. You know what is hurting Putin and his petro-state? <$50 oil. How do you get it? You increase supply. You know what hurts those oil sheiks you screech about so much? Cheap fucking oil!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

So what does this have to do with flooding the bottom of the market with low wage workers?

It doesn't. It's a different point. If we can grow while helping the bottom then that's good. We shouldn't pit GDP growth against wage growth.

By all means, restrict immigration, if you want. As much as you want. I just don't think it's a panacea and is missing the mark. Pricing the working poor out of Medicaid or the ACA or other low-wage healthcare assistance will erase any gain you will give them through decreased competition - and then some.

You have to see the big picture. Technology will make all labor obsolete - but it will hit the low wage jobs first, starting with trnasportation. Competition is an issue for you? How about competing with robots. They compete for even less than Mexican hands.

So people need to see the big picture. Even conservatives like what Charles Murray's saying on UBI. So the last thing we need to do is to price them out of their own medicine. When you work in a coal mine for 20 years (basically the max a human body will take), you end up needing a lot medicine.

And when you pit the lower number of available in jobs in coal with the many more installing renewables into the grid, you are not helping with job growth.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Coal jobs are away better than JC Penney's jobs. Plus, Penney's is doomed by the tech billionaires. Coal was only killed by regulations.

Bullshit. It was your love of fracking that did it. Get it right.

And other countries want to breathe, also. Those masks worn by Chinamen (as long as we're going to get xenophobic) on the street? They're phasing it out. You keep wanting us to not be competitive globally. To only make crap Americans would buy. That's how the Big Three Auto makers became a blip on the radar screen.

And you're doing it for the extractive energy owners, too. You're not doing it for the workers, but for the owners. They have an interest in not staying competitive. DOn't put the worker in the middle of it; they just need jobs - preferably good jobs and not just jobs that a human can only do for 20 years before wearing out from it. Not this particular industry or that. That's the owner's talk you're taking up. Not the worker's.

Virtually Unknown said...

Gee, I guess I can settle back and find a ballgame to watch on all of this Kumbayah.

Spiros Pappas said...

I wonder if Mr. Trump's paranoia has any basis in reality or whether it's a product of his failure to become an absolute autocrat.

Tank said...


Spiros Pappas said...

I wonder if Mr. Trump's paranoia has any basis in reality...


Well, doh !

LOL.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

BTW, as long as we're going on about Trump's fake love of coal workers, how about that health fund they rely on to treat the diseases they inevitably acquire after their 20 years in the hole that Trump wanted to cut? How about it?

That'll be a nice lump in their Christmas stocking.

Virtually Unknown said...

Bullshit. It was your love of fracking that did it. Get it right.

I do love fracking, but we can export coal, lots of countries need cheap energy to run their hospitals etc. I am all for fracked natural gas which has half the carbon of coal and none of the mercury. It's your side out protesting every new gas pipeline.

And you're doing it for the extractive energy owners, too. You're not doing it for the workers, but for the owners.

Energy stocks used to be great investments producing steady high returns due to the scarcity of their product. Now energy is a commodity and the owning class is suffering in that area. But the cheap manufacturing feedstocks and energy to run factories helps the economy in a way that even Keynes could appreciate. This helps the workers. But frankly, squeezing out every bit of economic growth from the economy by fair means or foul when the resulting "benefit" is mostly that affluent people can afford fine German cars more easily seems like not that great a bargain.

Virtually Unknown said...

And I think Trump does like coal miners. You guys don't get it because you despise him so deeply, but I don't believe he can fake that. He has interacted with tradespeople his whole life, not like most Democrats, oddly enough.

With that, good night. I am sure a blast will be provoked by this that will be as uninstructive as it is unpleasant to read.

bagoh20 said...

It really is amazing. Trump could wipe out ISIS, balance the budget, and cure cancer in one day, but his morning tweet would still be the top story, and get twice the commentary. I'm sure he has noticed that he can throw that stick over an over, and the media will chase it every time while he does whatever he wants without them noticing.

Q: What sound does a squirrel make?

A: "Tweet"

wildswan said...

If Trump isn't going to help the coal miners, what is the plan of the left for helping the miners?

Trump has already gotten back about a third of the coal mining jobs lost under Obama. Hillary would have gotten back zero. Suppose we can't get any more due to automation. Trump is way ahead. But Trump is only helping the American worker so the left naturally disregards the effort. It's too busy writing up signs that say We hate business; we love to create a climate that discourages business. Hateing business leads to lost jobs in the world of today but the left don't live in the world of today. It lives in the past of American dominance of manufacturing and of plentiful jobs. In that world the issue was fair distribution of profits, benefits and wages. Now the issue is: who can get jobs for Americans? Hillary isn't even trying and Bernie Sanders is busy planning how he'll share out wages and profits, not how he'll get a factory or a coal mine into town so that there will BE wages and profits to argue over. Trump is at it every day - trade deals, tax deals, talks with business. And I think that those who expect to see the Dems pick up seat in 2018 are going to have another of those tears-of-the-liberals nights. "But why? why?... We did all we could to destroy jobs and put welfare in their place .. they should be crawling forward to thank us and instead the miserable deplorable SOB/POS are lying to pollsters and electing Republicans." Hillary will stiffen and be thrown into van. As it speeds away, sounds of smashing come from it. Nancy Pelosi will denounce President Bush - no one is sure which Bush she means this time. AAAAANNNNDDDD Donald Trump will go TWEET! TWEET! TWEET - causing the left to initiate impeachment proceeding for the 25th time, this time for Unbearably Teasing Democrats And Then Laughing.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It really is amazing. Trump could wipe out ISIS, balance the budget, and cure cancer in one day..

And of course, you'd be the only one to believe it. Because you appreciate marketing and liars appeal to you.

It's why you'll die single.

wildswan said...

High Times and Teasing

traditionalguy said...

News Flash: President Trump has not only starved the Media Circus from sound bites of Sean Spicer on camera and replaced him with audio only, but his Twitter usage is adding Cafe Posts so the insane Media guys can blow off steam. He seems to have got that from copying Althouse.

Seriously, the Trump Twitter is the first place That I go to when going on line. Drudge is going to get jealous. The orange haired clown has retrained the world of communication. Damn, he is good.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Coal is too valuable a resource to leave in the ground. If we aren't going to burn it, we need to extract it's values chemically. Aside from providing petrochemical feedstocks for e.g. plastics, there is considerable mineral wealth contained in coal deposits, including uranium, radium, mercury, copper, etc., which, while making it less desirable to combust, make it more valuable exploited non-combustively. Fischer-Tropf is only the beginning.

pacwest said...

PB said:
"Assuming this is 100% correct, presumably the "fun" thing is that DJT says stuff to troll the media."

Perhaps unlike others here I think he is playing with fire if he truly is baiting his detractors.


"Thankfully, from your POV, DJT is POTUS."

No, I'm pretty sure that President Donald J. Trump became President of the United States of America on his inauguration day. Anyones 'POV' doesn't change that fact.

"Ya gots the right dude for the job, as you define the job of POTUS-ing."

I think so too. Thanks. But fighting through the lies of media is only one part of the multiple attacks he faces from the entrenched power structure as we both know.


wildswan said...

I'm not tired of winning but the constant opportunity for schadenfreude is overwhelming my better nature

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I do love fracking, but we can export coal, lots of countries need cheap energy to run their hospitals etc. I am all for fracked natural gas which has half the carbon of coal and none of the mercury. It's your side out protesting every new gas pipeline.

Coal's not getting any cheaper, Sparky. Renewables are. And other countries don't want mercury in their water or delude themselves into believing that they can put country over planet.

It's not just "our side" standing up for these nice Native American communities whom you hate so much. (Does their poverty not matter to you as much as white people's does?) They don't feel they need their sacred lands subject to oil spills that are routed to avoid the wealthier white communities. They seem to know something about this stuff.

bagoh20 said...

"It's why you'll die single."

I keep asking women if they would like to die with me, but so far no takers. What's up with that? I thought women wanted commitment.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Apparently not from you.

Earnest Prole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

"Perhaps unlike others here I think he is playing with fire if he truly is baiting his detractors."

The fire is already all around him. He can't put it out. He won't run away, so he dances with it, even harness it like a forester uses controlled burning. He uses it against itself to burn up it's own fuel and power, which for the media is trust. They are nearly out of fuel to much of the country.

I don't think this is some kind of genius of strategy, but rather just his nature and gut reaction after a lifetime of sparring with them. In this regard, he is the most experienced President in history.

John said...

You know what is hurting Putin and his petro-state? <$50 oil. How do you get it? You increase supply. You know what hurts those oil sheiks you screech about so much? Cheap fucking oil!

A dollar or so away from a 10 year low, in real, not inflation, adjusted, dollars as of close of business today. Probably farther back than 10 years but that's the farthest NASDAQ shows.

In constant, inflation adjusted, dollars, perhaps close to an all-time low but I am too tired to look it up at the moment.

Pretty much the only export has is oil and gas. Expensive to produce oil and gas. Probably costing more than it is selling for at the moment.

I don't have much against Putin, after all, he did help elect President Trump /sarc. But Russia gave the world in general and the US in particular, problems for 80 years so a little karmic payback is always nice.

Drill baby, drill.

Fuck global climate whatsit.

John Henry

Bob Boyd said...

The only boots on Trump's neck will be the tops of Melania's thigh highs.

John said...

For:

Pretty much the only export has is oil and gas

Pretty much the only export Russia has is oil and gas.

John Henry

Bob Ellison said...

Comey leaked like an emergency roadside napkin on a newborn. This is not difficult. He told a Congress committee that he leaked.

Francisco D said...

Once again, Ritmo becomes manic about halfway through the thread.

I wonder if he is purposefully annoying or if he just can't help himself. In either case, it's time for me to move on to other endeavors.

JAORE said...

"....bending the ever-increasing cost curve down."

Hate to rise to the troll bait,but SHEESH.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Comey leaked like an emergency roadside napkin on a newborn. This is not difficult. He told a Congress committee that he leaked.

Good. How much secrecy do you need from an administration anyway?

I mean, a normal administration. One that doesn't constantly lie to itself and to everyone around it.

gadfly said...

Trump tweets: "James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!"

Althouse writes: "We did a poll back then about why he was being coy and not just telling us whether or not there were recordings."

Dictionary.com defining coy: showing reluctance, especially when insincere or affected, to reveal one's plans or opinions, make a commitment, or take a stand.

As in: President Trump was pretending to be coy about the existence of "tapes" when in fact he had lied yet again.

Drago said...

Gadfly: "As in: President Trump was pretending to be coy about the existence of "tapes" when in fact he had lied yet again."

Except there was no lie.

Thanks for playing!

Fen said...

Ritmo: "...ain't wasting time on a dodo who thinks it's fighting ME wars for Saudi Arabia is - "

But I never said that. You just made it up to score some cheap ad hom.

If you were genuinely interested in an honest discussion, you would have learned I agree that the House of Saud is the major culprit behind Islamic terrorism because of their financing of madrassas, to distract their own population into doing something other than topling the regime. They need to be dealt with.

But you aren't interested in honesty, you aren't here to learn anything, you are here to spread talking points - to afflict the comfortable lol - so you remain blinded. Lashing out in rage at strawmen of your own making. You're really just playing with yourself, and in a bitter and angry way. My, what a visual.

See, the issues surrounding the Middle East are complex. Much more than you are capable of understanding. It's quite possible for a U.S. Marine to risk his life liberating the Iraqi people from Saddam, while still regarding the House of Saud as an enemy to be overthrown.

But you don't get that because your partisan bias turns it tribal. Democrat good, Republican bad. You have Fast Food Analysis, lots of junk with little nutritional value. It's why, despite all your fancy words and sophisticated staging, no one here takes your McNalysis seriously. And it's why we know you are full of shit.

FullMoon said...

Justice Kennedy announcing retirement on Monday.
Winning!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

SHEESH. How dare reality not conform to the conservative bias against it!

roesch/voltaire said...

As usual the Tweeter in Chief was blowing smoke up the.... of all of us. I must suggest, coyly, that I have the tapes-- perhaps.

Earnest Prole said...

Run, don’t walk, to see James Comey and his wife visiting the New York Times. I think I've met her before.

Tom said...

Trump did to Comey what the FBI and police do to people all the time - bluffed them into telling the truth. And I love the way he left the door open that tapes might exist because of illegial surveillance. It's genius.

He's like the Kung Fu Panda of politicans. It's not pretty but everyone ends up with their ass kicked.

Fen said...

"Oil spills"

As solar panels degrade they leak toxic waste into the soil.

But move along, nothing to see here but unicorns and leprechauns.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

But I never said that. You just made it up to score some cheap ad hom.

If you were genuinely interested in an honest discussion, you would have learned I agree that the House of Saud is the major culprit behind Islamic terrorism because of their financing of madrassas, to distract their own population into doing something other than topling the regime. They need to be dealt with.


Right. That's why it took you five days or so to say so, after your triumphant chest beating about how we're SOOOO much better than the Muslims and how I never read Bernard Lewis or supported a glorious American war for Arabia, or some such.

But you aren't interested in honesty, you aren't here to learn anything, you are here to spread talking points - to afflict the comfortable lol - so you remain blinded.

The worst talking points were the neocon talking points of 2003 - 2006, and you sure had a heck of a lot of them that night. Apparently even now you're still not stepping back from them.

Lashing out in rage at strawmen of your own making. You're really just playing with yourself, and in a bitter and angry way. My, what a visual.

Nothing for me to see here, but apparently you're amusing yourself by imagining me masturbating. Let me know when you want to get to a more pertinent, and heterosexual point.

See, the issues surrounding the Middle East are complex.

See, so what. It doesn't mean you understand them - any more than Trump knows how healthcare is complex. Quantum physics is complex. Don't bother having a conversation about it though unless you're willing to understand enough about it to not sound foolish.

Much more than you are capable of understanding.

Oh, right. Of course. NOW who sounds phony and a sophist and trash-talking lightweight? You.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

It's quite possible for a U.S. Marine to risk his life liberating the Iraqi people from Saddam, while still regarding the House of Saud as an enemy to be overthrown.

What a genius insight. I guess that means that's your next trillion dollar war I'm supposed to fund. FUCK YOU AND COUNT ME OUT.

But you don't get that because your partisan bias turns it tribal.

Well, if we can't rely on the Trump-Graham-McCain axis to keep us out of Arabia, then I'm fine voting partisan Democrat. They seem to initiate less wars in the wrong country anyway.

Democrat good, Republican bad.

Absolutely. If you want to stay in Iraq until 2452, then by all means vote Republican. Maybe you can offer Iraq a referendum like the have in Puerto Rico every other year to see if it wants to become an American state. Lord knows you will try.

You have Fast Food Analysis, lots of junk with little nutritional value. It's why, despite all your fancy words and sophisticated staging, no one here takes your McNalysis seriously. And it's why we know you are full of shit.

And that's why the collective "we" is reserved for royalty. Or at least fools who are delusional enough to think they're royalty.

You wanna bring the Saudis down? Stop strangle holding their enemy in Iran, numbnuts. This is why you'll never lead or command. You can only follow orders. The crudest and most effective strategy is not to fight. The next best thing, is to get the enemy to fight your other enemy. So simple a fucking five-year old can get it. But your president decided ayatollahs are bad and Aramco's sheikhs are awesome (and gave him quite the lavish greeting!) so now it looks like four more years of fighting Sa'ud's wars instead of having him exhaust himself with the ayatollahs. You should live in Iran, given how antsy you are for your next war with the Hejaz. For fuck's sake, the Iranians want to fight for Mecca a hell of a lot more than any decent and halfway intelligent American would want to. But if the soul of Mecca matters so much to you, I say go do it. Just get the Iranians to lead you into it. America won't be there for you. America's got better things to do.

Dummy. (A Trump-level insult, so one I assume you think is ok to say).

Rene Saunce said...

Solar panels are made in China. Want to know why?

Tom said...

I sense your cruel neutrality is less cruel and less neutral.

Mark Jones said...

Trump is playing the media like the fools they are. They really are like dogs chasing a car; they can't help themselves.

In other news:

Comment by The Toothless Revolutionary blocked.
Comment by Inga blocked.
Comment by PBWhatshisface blocked.

I love my killfile. It makes reading the comments here much less annoying. I can ignore the majority of their drivel, and catch the highlight reels when people quote them in order to expose just how arrogantly, aggressively, abysmally stupid they are.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Mark Jones' bubble is a very safe space, with a nice shiny reflective coating all around it. It will never go "pop," either!

Qwinn said...

That's funny, getting enemies to fight each other was Reagan's exact strategy for dealing with Iraq and Iran in the 80s. And lefties have never stopped cursing him for it.

Wonder why it's always a bad idea when we do it, and always a good idea when we don't do it.

And I wonder how Ritmo has the utter lack of shame needed to show his face within 24 hours of getting caught in a monstrous provable lie without even the shred of honesty to own up to it. He just pretends it didn't happen and doubles down on new lies. Every. Single. Day. It's like he's a paid troll or something.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

That's funny, getting enemies to fight each other was Reagan's exact strategy for dealing with Iraq and Iran in the 80s. And lefties have never stopped cursing him for it.

They didn't need Reagan for that, dummy. They were doing it anyway. Reagan was a bad boy and got in trouble because he tried to fund it and couldn't remember. And also because it was a pay-off for their terrorist hostage-taking activities - which you don't want to incentivize by paying for. (Apparently Republicanism is an early stage right before Alzheimers). The point of getting two enemies to fight each other is not so that you can support one financially and morally.

What a dummy.

I'm going to keep using these Trump insults until the Republicans here start sharpening up and using their brains.

Jay Elink said...

And other countries want to breathe, also. Those masks worn by Chinamen (as long as we're going to get xenophobic) on the street? They're phasing it out.

*********************
Are you fucking serious??

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-doubles-down-on-coal-despite-climate-pledge-1478520063

"they" may be phasing out the masks (bad image) but certainly not the coal.

Fen said...

Mark: "love my kill file"

Wai- what? We can actually block these assholes now?

How?

Qwinn said...

Like I said. Perfect demonstration. Pretends his being proven a liar never happened, and just shovels a new batch of lies. Every. Single. Post.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

How?

With something called a "computer," dummy.

exiledonmainstreet said...

the GOP is in an early stage right before Alzheimer's ? I think Ritmo is confusing the GOP with Granny Botox McRictus who is hanging on to the House minority leadership by her talons and will probably succeed In keeping it, because she's good at raising moola. Not good at actually, you know, getting Dems elected, but really good at keeping the gravy train running.

In the meantime, Dems have lost over 1,000 seats since 2008. their bench is so crappy they thought running a vapid 30 year carpetbagger in GOP district was good strategy.

but hey, you'll always have Hollywood.

Fen said...

Ritmo: "that's why it took you 5 days to say so"

Sweetums, if I responded to every one of your silly fantasy strawmen, I wouldn't have a life. Kinda like you.

You've never wondered why no one bothers with paragraphs upon paragraphs of drek you write?

Let me guess - you think it's because you are "winning". LOL.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Yup. Sounds like you're the liar, Qwinn. Show me how Iran needed our arms to fight Iraq. Show me how it was right to trade them for hostages. The history behind Iran-Contra isn't as obscure as you and Dutch and Ollie North wished it were. Go point out the lie in all that.

Dummy.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

but hey, you'll always have Hollywood.

And you'll always have your front porch to look at.

Someone lied to you when they said jealousy was becoming.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I wouldn't have a life.

You already don't have a life. Yours is on loan from Uncle Sam until they can find the right Arabian desert for you to get blown apart in.

But that's not the issue. The issue is that you're apparently a slow typer.

And that's fine. Never try to type faster than you can think.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Nah, I've been looking at Democrat meltdowns all week long and it's almost as fun as the November election was.

Enjoy your complete irrelevance. Try not to shot or stab anybody or hit them over the head with a bike lock.. We know how violent you Stalinists become when you're enraged.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I never liked Stalin and I never shot or stabbed anyone.

But you do like to lie and have quite the role model for that now. So I don't expect that anything you say has to be more honest than the smell of whichever Republican butt you kissed to get it past your poopy lips.

Qwinn said...

Why should I bother expending the effort to prove that you're lying tonight, Ritmo? You lied last night and used th e lie to call all Republicans bigots and racists. When I proved you were lying, did you admit it? No. Did you retract your claim of "proving" we were bigots and racists? No. Did you even slightly tone down the vitriol? You cranked it up.

So what's the point? You're already proven beyond a shadow of doubt to have not one single shred of intellectual honesty. Anyone who can still take a word you say seriously after last night's display isn't going to change their mind just because I prove you're lying yet again. It gets every bit as boring as you are, which is to say, infinitely.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Poopy lips? are you 8 years old? tsk, tsk, even your talent for invective is in sad decline.

Jon Ericson said...


https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/blog-comment-killfile/kpoilnkelonbaapoapibddjaojohnpjf

killfile

I call it the Pedro and Pee-Wee killfile.

chickelit said...

"Poopy lips" Isn't that what Titus refers to as his "pucker"?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Well, you're lying once again "Qwinn" by inserting the word "all" in there, which I did not use.

ALL I said was that they were ok with the push-polling about a black baby of McCain's in 2000, which is not that long ago historically. For some reason or another, they thought it would work in a Republican primary. Not all Republicans are bigots and racists, but they are much more open-minded about bigotry and racism. Show me the Republicans who denounced it.

They are also very bad at admitting what the Southern strategy is, or why all those Southern Democrats became Republicans after 1965. Even though Michael Steele and Ken Mehlman and Lee Atwater have said otherwise, or apologized. So no, I don't I need to tone anything down. Find me a single Republican on this blog who wants to acknowledge the Southern Strategy and maybe I'll rethink that. But they're notoriously self-righteous and and wrong on that one. Once they "crank down" their own volume, maybe I might do the same.

Remove the log from your eye.

chickelit said...

but hey, you'll always have Hollywood.

And Johnny Wilkes Depp

Birkel said...

The Southern Strategy:

In slightly more than two generations after the passage of the CRA, state legislatures across the South will be majority Republican.

43 years to flip Georgia.

Because reasons, he asserted, louder this time in case the lie had not been heard before.

Fen said...

Southern democrats became Republicans because they witnessed welfare brats buying steaks with their tax dollars while they had to budget for rammen noodles.

And Gods Ritmo, you've become boring. Even your insults are dull. WTF happened to you?

Birkel said...

Why does nobody talk about the Northern and West Coast Strategy, in which Democrats managed to flip fiscally conservative state legislatures across New England and the West Coast to spendthrift bankrupters?

Can we talk about that similarly idiotic theory?

Birkel said...

Wrong, Fen. Democrats died off and almost never switched parties. Nearly nobody flipped parties.

Alabama, "Song of the South" excerpt:
Well somebody told us Wall Street fell
But we were so poor that we couldn't tell
Cotton was short and the weeds were tall
But Mr. Roosevelt's a gonna save us all


From 1981. A popular country song.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Southern democrats became Republicans because they witnessed welfare brats buying steaks with their tax dollars while they had to budget for rammen noodles.

If that's what you believe then why did Lee Atwater and Ken Mehlman and Michael Steele disagree with you? Because they were "boring?"

No, because they were responsible and competent at their jobs and you are just a turd waiting to be blown up in the next desert arena that the government chooses for you.

Maybe they should have deferred to your expertise. After all, you know that Islam is BAD and read Bernard Lewis! And want to take down the Sauds while "liberating" all the Iraqis apart from the million that you already killed as bystanders.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Can we talk about that similarly idiotic theory?

Well everything you say is idiotic so I don't see why not.

And everything your party asserts is make-believe anyway.

Birkel said...

43 years. All they had to do was wait for two generations of FDR/Kennedy voters to die.

Those are facts. Square them with the theory of a strategy. Use your words.

Birkel said...

I like that you agreed they are similarly idiotic theories. That was well played.

Yancey Ward said...

The original tweet was a warning to Comey to not lie about the conversations he had with Trump, and it worked. Comey basically told Congress that there was no investigation into Trump, and that Trump had supported the investigation into Russian meddling. In addition to that, Comey was forced to admit that he had deliberately not told the public that Trump wasn't under investigation. I strongly suspect Comey would have admitted to none of that if he wasn't worried the conversations were recorded, or at the very least tried to claim Trump misunderstood him when he was told three times he wasn't under investigation.

With Comey committed to sworn testimony, Trump can now say he didn't record the conversations, and Comey can stew in his own bile over the matter.

Birkel said...

Guys, guys! I have a theory of how, in 43 years, things we want to happen will happen. Ok?

Achilles said...

"They are also very bad at admitting what the Southern strategy is, or why all those Southern Democrats became Republicans after 1965. "

All except Robert Byrd right?

Drago said...

TTR: 'They are also very bad at admitting what the Southern strategy is, or why all those Southern Democrats became Republicans after 1965."

Never happened.

It took 30 to 40 years for republicans to take control of southern States houses and that only happened after the southern States became much more business friendly leading to large migrations and demographic changes.

Those yellow dog Dems had to die off for republicans to win.

Nixon won 49 states in 1972 because that's how many southern states existed then...apparently.

Achilles said...

"I love my killfile. It makes reading the comments here much less annoying. "

What is the point of the blog?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

All except Robert Byrd right?

Exactly. Robert Byrd IIRC sort of renounced his racist past.

The racist Democrats of the South who bolted into the GOP for their voting didn't have to. They weren't running for office.

What is the point of the blog?

To achieve epistemic closure, pick on the left, and WIN!

If no win then go home and find nice lefty who play nicely and be more of a loser.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Never happened.

Again. The most successful/notorious GOP strategist and two RNC chairs disagree with you. Why don't you have their jobs? You seem to think you know more than they do. I suppose you are a more "purist" sort of politician who doesn't accept dog whistle politics and think everything in politics is either done blatantly or it never happens. Never subtly. It's like the whole advertising industry would never apply to their operations. It's like they care more for morals than votes. Hahahahha. The GOP caring more for ethical politicking than votes. Hilarious.

It took 30 to 40 years for republicans to take control of southern States houses and that only happened after the southern States became much more business friendly leading to large migrations and demographic changes.

All things being equal, the simpler explanation tends to be true. You have not provided the simpler explanation.

Achilles said...

Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...

"And everything your party asserts is make-believe anyway."

Which party asserts things that aren't make-believe?

I love how you justified Obama and the democrats lying about pretty much every aspect of Obamacare to get it passed too. That was legit.

Bad Lieutenant said...

If no win then go home and find nice lefty who play nicely and be more of a loser.

Do you feel that you could not win, make your points, or be effective (at whatever is your goal), without being (I trust you won't deny this) voluminously abusive to your opponents?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

You know, you have a good point, BL. Perhaps if I explained to the others things in the way a kindergarten teacher would explain them, they would accept their veracity.

Right now, here's a good example with Achilles repeating more anti-ACA Koch Bros. talking points. I'm sure I've made the point over and over again to him many times, but he seems to have trouble listening. Keeps saying all health care should be like plastic surgery or something and that he should know. And Achilles is far from the most abusive person on here. He's actually complimentary and civil and nice from time to time - at least before retreating into an alternative fact. I want to treat him nicely.

So perhaps that's a bad example. But you have a point. I guess just as with a kindergarten teacher, these things take patience. But when you get a group who think the point of life is to war against reality with the exuberance of the class clown, it's really hard to know it anything will be effective.

I guess I just have to accept that they're wedded to their war against reality and that's all there is to it. Political losses convinced them to double-down on their war on the poor and their war on the rest of the country, and now they've got a big political win - not that it seems to be going anywhere constructive. So they are drunk with self-righteousness, never listened when they weren't winning, and now are convinced that The Heavens have graced them with permanent rectitude.

That's how they feel; I guess they can have that. You're right. There's no convincing people who think their politics and their political wins and record make them right.

Achilles said...

Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
All except Robert Byrd right?

"Exactly. Robert Byrd IIRC sort of renounced his racist past."

If you take his word for it then you should offer similar good faith acceptance to republicans. The Republican Party brought about the end of slavery and the end of Jim Crow. Over the violent resistance of democrats.

Now.

First the Republican Party is racist. I have no problem admitting that.

Second the democrat party is racist. You should have no problem admitting that either.

And it was liberals who have re-segregated our public schools.

Drago said...

TTR: "You seem to think you know more than they do."

I clearly do.

Further, we have the actual votes to assist us in our analysis.

If all those southern Dems flipped the republicans would have won across the South decades earlier than they did.

They didn't.

That can be difficult for some to accept I suppose.

Drago said...

Interestingly in Texas it was the high growth big city suburban areas that trended republican first due to the multi-decade influx of out of staters who brought business focused and more politically conservative values to those areas.

The rural areas held out as Dem dominated until all the old dogs died off.

Party affiliation and voting results make this irrefutable.

Perhaps it was all due to nefarious Soviet influence in support of the republicans. Those types of theories have become quite prevalent I understand.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

If you take his word for it then you should offer similar good faith acceptance to republicans.

I did. Their most notorious strategist, and two chairs all agree with me. I accept them at their word. They apologized for the Southern strategy.

The Republican Party brought about the end of slavery and the end of Jim Crow. Over the violent resistance of democrats.

But I'm not denying that history. The relevant history is that two GOP chairs and their best-known strategist have all admitted to and apologized for.

Second the democrat party is racist. You should have no problem admitting that either.

I guess, if you say so. But minorities are preferring Democrats, and I don't see "reverse-racism" as anywhere near as much of a problem. For some reason, blacks and almost everyone else doesn't feel talked down to and demeaned by Democrats - at least certainly not the way they do by Republicans. So maybe if you think the Democrats are being racist you should ask why people who are more vulnerable to racism's effects are preferring them. And if you can't do that without making them feel talked down to, then it's hard to see where you expect your accusation to go.

Achilles said...

"Right now, here's a good example with Achilles repeating more anti-ACA Koch Bros. talking points. I'm sure I've made the point over and over again to him many times, but he seems to have trouble listening. Keeps saying all health care should be like plastic surgery or something and that he should know. And Achilles is far from the most abusive person on here. He's actually complimentary and civil and nice from time to time - at least before retreating into an alternative fact. I want to treat him nicely."

I don't need to be fed talking points about the ACA. The kock brothers are never-trumpers. Fuck them. The lies that were told to get it passed are well documented and legion.

If you want to treat me nicely start out by understanding my position from a good faith standpoint instead of turning it into a straw man. That is basic respect.

I have lived in a single payer health care system. I am able to describe what you want for us better than you can. I am not making things up to fuck with your argument. I legitimately do not want you to have to suffer like we have suffered getting health care from the VA.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

If all those southern Dems flipped the republicans would have won across the South decades earlier than they did.

Was the strategy completely formulated and put into practice immediately after passage of the CRA by the next election in '66? Or '68, even?

Of course not. It was a process. In '68 you still had southern racist Democrat, George Wallace, running. It was only after he and his were completely out of the picture in the Democrat party that the transition could be begin. I don't see why you expect that it would have been an immediate thing. Even by '76 there was still a southern Democrat who could win by just being a nice, down-home boy. But apparently that seemed "weak." So by 1980 anyone clamoring for grievance politics found their man, in a nice, Hollywood, sunny boy named "Ronnie," who could rail against "welfare queens" but still not seem like tooo much of an asshole doing it. They liked that about him, I'm sure. The nice face of resentful whites everywhere. They could be resentful, and he could be their sunny foil. It was all good.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I have lived in a single payer health care system. I am able to describe what you want for us better than you can. I am not making things up to fuck with your argument. I legitimately do not want you to have to suffer like we have suffered getting health care from the VA.

I would never tout the VA as a perfect system. But I would also not attribute all its problems to the fact that it's single payer, either. There are other single-payer systems that work much better than the VA.

I also do not think the U.S. is in a position given its current politics to do single payer. (Although how are congress critters getting by, these days? I literally can't keep up). We aren't even agreeing on the need for universal access, let alone single payer. I agree with Obama: expand coverage, to the point of universality, then see if quality can be maximized across the board. Whether it's single payer or not is beside the point, to me. I have no problem with competition in the system, either - as long as it's not the ONLY or even primary market force in an insurance pool. We need to agree on coverage basics, first. Otherwise there is a race to the bottom for low quality, because healthcare will almost always certainly be an industry where asymmetric knowledge works against the consumer.

Achilles said...

"I guess, if you say so. But minorities are preferring Democrats, and I don't see "reverse-racism" as anywhere near as much of a problem. For some reason, blacks and almost everyone else doesn't feel talked down to and demeaned by Democrats - at least certainly not the way they do by Republicans. So maybe if you think the Democrats are being racist you should ask why people who are more vulnerable to racism's effects are preferring them."

I think there was essentially one party in DC. I think both parties were working together for the wealthy and dividing the voters against each other. That is why nothing really changed when either side took power. I think Trump changed that. He may not be perfect or even good but he kicked the uniparty in the balls.

Inner city black people invariably live under democrat rule in single party situations. How is that working out? Do you think the democrat party really cares about how well they are living?

Education for inner city black kids is particularly shitty. Democrats have been "fixing" it for 40 years. I think it is doing exactly what they want it to do.

eddie willers said...

The ONLY thing that kept racists in the Democratic party was simply that. It was the safe place for racists. Once they (the Democrats) joined the rest of the union and the racists no long had safe harbor and the battle was lost, it was time to reassess thier party affiliations. Since neither party would now allow segregation, the "smaller government, less taxes, individual freedom" message of the Republicans was more attractive than a "non-racist" Democrat Party.

Think about a strict Catholic who is a bleeding heart liberal in all respects, but to which abortion is an abomination and sin. She (or he) has only one party to vote for. Now imagine that the Republican Party caves and announces they are now Pro-Choice and the abortion issue is forever closed.

Since that Pro-Life safe harbour is now gone, he or she will join the Democratic Party as fast as they can.

This is how the South "switched".

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