June 6, 2017

It's hard to get past that name — Reality Winner....

But this is, I presume, serious.
On Monday evening, the Intercept published what appears to be a May 5 intelligence report from the National Security Agency that describes two cyberattacks carried out by Russian government hackers against employees of a company that provides technical support to state voting agencies, which occurred shortly before the 2016 election. (The Intercept’s Sam Biddle noted, “There’s nothing in the NSA report indicating the actual voting machines or vote tabulations were compromised” — though this certainly opens up a whole new dimension in the ongoing investigation into Russia’s election meddling and potential contact with the Trump campaign.)

About an hour after the report was published, the Justice Department announced that 25-year-old Reality Leigh Winner, a government contractor, has been charged with taking classified material from a government facility and mailing it to a news outlet.....

186 comments:

Humperdink said...

Reality Leigh Winner? How did she get the name Leigh? Surely her parents could have been more creative.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It also re-opens a discussion of not using such vulnerable software hackable and unaccountable machines to vote. Paper ballots and a careful tabulation system with actual monitors...not trunks full of surprise ballots ala Al Franken...is a much more reliable system.

Does it mean we may have to wait a bit longer for the results. Yes. So?

Kevin said...

It's "a whole new dimension" of Reality for the Dem faithful.

David Begley said...

Reality Winner was a translator. Reportedly she does not speak Russian. How did her eyes ever get on this info?

Swede said...

"Being white is terrorism".

Typical.

I wonder who she voted for?

Hari said...

Does every single one of the 60,000 people who work for the NSA (most of whom are contractors) have access to every single document? I can't get a an article behind the NYT paywall, and basically the lowest level employee can download anything at the NSA. Of course everything is leaked. How can 60,000 people all keep a secret?

David Begley said...

Supposedly Reality made all sorts of admissions of guilt. She will be made an example.

ConradBibby said...

Reality Winner sounds like the name of a racehorse.

Kevin said...

Don't you think the hackers may have been looking for evidence of collusion among election officials to tip the election to Hillary? It fits the larger MO. It has nothing to do with Trump.

John Tuffnell said...

Many interesting issues. Why did a low-level contractor have access? Is this the security for all of our top-secret documents? Did NSA want the document leaked? How complete was the assessment?

Looks like the prosecution is serious -- will the legal consequences of Trump Derangement Syndrome force Reality Winner change her name to Fantastic Loser?

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rene Saunce said...

THE Ed Kilgore link is total media hack of it's own. Trump and Russian hacked the machines. That's the new narrative line here.

Michael McClain said...

Symbolic scapegoat or fall guy?

There must be others, more deeply imbedded and guilty of worse misdeeds.

Suspicious.

Brando said...

Pretty clear cut case of releasing classified information--no excuse for that.

"Reality"? Geez. Maybe her middle name should have been "Show".

Dave from Minnesota said...

We have 60,000 NSA contractors? This gal doesn't come across as very intelligent. What kind of hiring screening do people go through? Are they just trying to feel positions with warm bodies?
What do these 60,000 people do all day when they can be surfing through sensitive docs?

iowan2 said...

The President has the opportunity to make an example. Identify her as an enemy combatant. Ship off to foreign soil, question her for 6 to 12 months. Charge and conduct the trial. And let us all understand, The President does no need actionable proof to whisk these leakers off to some unnamed location, for questioning, for as long as it takes.

chickelit said...

Kevin wrote: Don't you think the hackers may have been looking for evidence of collusion among election officials to tip the election to Hillary? It fits the larger MO. It has nothing to do with Trump.

Agree. She sounds more like the type who colluded with Robert Creamer.

AReasonableMan said...

This seems to run against the right-wing narrative that the Russians didn't do anything. It seems they moved beyond just attempting to influence the election to attempting to corrupt the election. This would be standard operating procedure in Russia.

James Pawlak said...

Why not charge H. Clinton with felony violation of 18 U.S. Code § 2071 as would demonstrate "equal justice under law"?

Matthew Sablan said...

Should've just faxed it to herself and let the maid pick it up. That's not illegal, apparently.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

But this is, I presume, serious.

We can tell. You've already given Reality Winner her own tag!

Matthew Sablan said...

"Does every single one of the 60,000 people who work for the NSA (most of whom are contractors) have access to every single document?"

-- Not if all 60,000 people practiced proper OPSEC.

Matthew Sablan said...

Honestly, there's no more intent here to give the documents to people who shouldn't have it than Clinton had. I don't see why she should be prosecuted, given the current standards.

Swede said...

"This would be standard operating procedure in Russia."

Or Obama's Homeland Security Department attempting to hack Georgia's voter registration database.

But, yeah, standard operating procedure.

Rene Saunce said...

If the evidence points to Russian hacking, the media will make sure the Russians and Trump did the hacking.

Rene Saunce said...

Ignore the Bernie supporter leaker. What matters now is supporting the media as they paint Trump and the Russians as hacking the voting machines themselves.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

AReasonableMan said...

This seems to run against the right-wing narrative that the Russians didn't do anything. It seems they moved beyond just attempting to influence the election to attempting to corrupt the election.

It would seem that way, if you were ignorant of the information we currently have available. They were not hacking a company that does voting-machine software. They were hacking a company that does voter-roll software. If successful, they would have no ability to change vote totals, except by preventing people from even casting a ballot, each instance of which would be immediately known by the person who was prevented from voting.

And I don't know anyone on the right who says the Russians didn't do anything. We only claim that there has been no evidence presented that:
1) They in any way hacked the voting.
2) Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians to affect the election
3) Russia preferred Trump over Clinton to be the next President.

John Tuffnell said...

"Reality"? Geez. Maybe her middle name should have been "Show".

Possible tie-ins:

The Biggest Loser
Total Divas
Real Housewives of Atlanta
Hoarders (Secret document edition)
Trading Spaces: Home for Jail
Queer Eye for the Straight Girl (Jail edition)
Extreme Makeover: Jail edition
Dog the Bounty Hunter (after she skips bail)
Here Comes Honey Boo Boo
Survivor

The Drill SGT said...

Hari said...
Does every single one of the 60,000 people who work for the NSA (most of whom are contractors) have access to every single document?


No.

There are lots of compartments.

And the audit system is fairly comprehensive with regard to who accesses what.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Of course everything is leaked. How can 60,000 people all keep a secret?

I remember when Manning was caught. I was discussing how crappy the security was with a guy on a computer security forum. I stated that if the security was as reported, low level "analysts" with access to just about everything, no compartmentalization, a writable device attached to his computer, no audit trail, that their was zero chance that any intelligence agency that had an interest in acquiring the documents (all of them) had not done so. His response was to tell me that I shouldn't be stating things like that where anyone could see them. In other words, he was a moron.

And it hasn't gotten any better. The Chinese didn't "hack" all those files on people who had applied for security clearances in the last 10 years, the US government gave them to them. They hired a contractor who outsourced some of the IT work to people who resided in mainland China and gave them root access. Did anyone suffer for that? My best guess is that someone got a pay off for that and figured out a way to provide the data to the Chinese without getting charged with espionage. Just a bureaucratic snafu, nothing to see here.

LarsPorsena said...

Blogger Michael McClain said...
Symbolic scapegoat or fall guy?

There must be others, more deeply imbedded and guilty of worse misdeeds.

Suspicious.

6/6/17, 8:03 AM
---------------------------------

Yep! There are others higher up the Deep State food chain but they will be harder to catch.

Virtually Unknown said...

Given the recent revelations that the NSA has the capability to make a hack look like Russia, and their tools were leaked, the case seems as strong that the hackers were trying to help Hillary as to help Trump. Weak in both cases.

William said...

I saw the picture of her posted on Drudge. Compare that with the pictures used on CNN, where she looks innocent and naive. I don't think the press will demonize her--far more likely that they will plameify her. They're mostly of the view that leaking info damaging to Trump is in the national interest and is, in fact, a higher form of patriotism.........Leaking information damaging to Hillary or the DNC, by way of contrast, is scurrilous and only serves to advance the interests of Russia. Assange is no longer such a heroic figure.......Snowden leaked info damaging to our national security, but it wasn't, strictly speaking, damaging to Obama. He gets to keep his hero status, although he's living under Putin's protection in Russia....... . Chelsea Manning is undergoing gender transition so there can be no question of her hero status.

Brookzene said...

" I can't get a an article behind the NYT paywall, and basically the lowest level employee can download anything at the NSA."

That's pretty funny. I mean that's pretty scary.

The Drill SGT said...

June 6th.

Here's to the Boy's from Bedford. A/116th Infantry who landed on Dog Green Omaha Beach at H hour on D-Day.

Here's to the Rangers who went up those awful cliffs.

Here's to my 101st AB, who jumped into that dark night. Every man alone on enemy soil.

Absent Companions!

Ron Winkleheimer said...

In fact, a lot of the espionage cases over the last 50 - 60 years only make sense if you assume that some high level official wanted the data to leak and allowed the lax procedures that enabled low level people to steal classified documents because they wanted that to happen.

Its elementary espionage to wonder why a mid-level bureaucrat suddenly is driving a Porsche. And perhaps you shouldn't hire someone to work in a secure facility and handle classified documents if they are friends with a heroin dealer?

Or maybe the bureaucrats who really run the government on a day to day basis are that incompetent.

madAsHell said...

I think she was the low hanging fruit. They want to put the fear of God in everyone else. I won't be impressed until sentencing.

What the hell is Pluribus International?.....and why isn't the information compartmentalized?

Virtually Unknown said...

Instead of pleading stupid cluelessness like Hillary Rodham Clinton did, Reality has apparently admitted that the leak could benefit enemies and harm the US. No lack of mens rea for Winner.

Humperdink said...

"Reality Winner sounds like the name of a racehorse."

Ridden hard and will be put away wet.

Virtually Unknown said...

She was caught because she used an NSA printer.

holdfast said...

Sometimes reality's a bitch. In this case she's a lying, traitorous cunt.

She also looks like a girl who Ross Geller'd a friend of mine.

madAsHell said...

I'm looking at the picture on Drudge. Is she a lesbian?

Hagar said...

I don't think this is really "news." I am pretty sure I read some posts last year about these machines being hacked by someone. So, if it can be proven that some Russians did and they were not hired by any Democrat or Democrat leaning entity, and that they were the only ones who did, that might be news, though I think these articles from last year also stated that no harm was done, since the hacking did not affect the use of the machines in the least.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

And the audit system is fairly comprehensive with regard to who accesses what.

In this case that does seem to be true. My guess is they are using Solaris or some version of Linux. Some people are speculating that she wanted to be caught. She had to know their would be an audit trail, and she apparently had the email address of the "news outlet" she sent the document to on her work computer.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"This seems to run against the right-wing narrative that the Russians didn't do anything. It seems they moved beyond just attempting to influence the election to attempting to corrupt the election. This would be standard operating procedure in Russia."

You need to bone up on what the right-wing narrative actually is, ARF. Clearly the Russians had a significant interest in making Hillary president. They wanted value for those millions of dollars of bribes.

Matthew Sablan said...

I just don't get how the Russians are both the most expert hackers ever to leave zero evidence, and also the most incompetent hackers ever where they sometimes even code in Cyrillic so that people know "Russians been here, yo."

Titus said...

I just saw a picture of Reality Winner. Sounds like a name of a race horse.

She is fucking hot. Smoking workout body, tats on her back, blonde, nice tits, tight ass.

love her.

traditionalguy said...

The source of hacks is disguised as Russian by the CIA's tools. That trick is in Wiki leaks vault7 .
And why scratch around weeks before election unless to leave tracks.
In Georgia the Secretary of State's voting count computer was hacked twice...by the Homeland Security Agency of Obama's Gang.

surfed said...

It's a frame up. But who's the mark? Putin, Reality or Trump - or maybe all three?

J. Farmer said...

Yet another victory for our oversized, overstaffed, overfunded, overindulged, overrated intelligence community.

Bob Ellison said...

The speculation on NPR this morning was roughly as follows:

1) Assume the hacking info (that Russia phished some folks who worked at voter-roll-software companies) is correct.

2) Assume that Russia thereby managed to do the following:

2.1) Send official-looking emails from caught phish to election officials.

2.2) Log into those caught phish accounts at the companies in question.

2.1 could cast the hacking net pretty wide, if it worked. They might plant malware with send-home stuff enabling Russia to hack the officials themselves. 2.2 could enable Russia to infiltrate the voter rolls directly.

It's possible, but it's a bit of a stretch. It's not as though we have an email from Podesta's account indicating that there would be a rat infestation at one of the POTUS debates.

Anyway, I'm with Althouse: it looks serious, and those who dismiss or go crazy over this new information are working with too little information.

Mary Beth said...

She threw away a career to leak a document that appears to be mostly speculation of what could have happened.

mockturtle said...

Titus opines: I just saw a picture of Reality Winner. Sounds like a name of a race horse.

She is fucking hot. Smoking workout body, tats on her back, blonde, nice tits, tight ass.

love her.


She looks coarse.

Oso Negro said...

We already know that NSA techniques make it impossible to trace trackers. So why should we suddenly believe this "secret"? I presume that our "secrets", such as they may be, are not intended to keep information from our foreign enemies, but rather to facilitate the misinformation of our own citizens.

Bob Ellison said...

Also, this is probably the slightly smoking gun that convinced all those white-hairs in DC that the Russian election-hacking story is serious. Those white-hairs don't know much about hacking.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

This is interesting.

http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.html#.WTaYJRPytsY

I'm reminded that the BTK killer was captured because they were able to track a Word file that he sent to the cops to a computer at his church.

tcrosse said...

She is fucking hot

It's the patented Lena Dunham Person-of-Indeterminate-Gender look.

Inga said...

She was a veteran of the Air Force, a whistleblower and a patriot. I'm sure the Trump Justice Department will make an example of this young woman. Maybe it'll even take the heat of of Trump for a few days.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I'm sure the Trump Justice Department will make an example of this young woman.

I hope so.

Inga said...

"She looks coarse"

Jealous.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"She looks coarse."

She really does.

And here I thought gay men had good taste.

Matthew Sablan said...

Inga: It's not "making an example of someone" when they actually did something wrong.

Inga said...

"I hope so."

No doubt you and your fellow Trumpists do, but it won't help Trump, he's still in huge trouble in many ways.

Kevin said...

"corrupt the election." The proper spelling is: "disclose the truth".

For example, the Democratic Primary was corrupted by party officials. Hackers just disclosed the evidence.

As of today, the only evidence we have the Presidential election was corrupted was the head of the DNC gave CNN's debate questions to Hillary.

Paul Zrimsek said...

I don't think they foresaw this when they started calling themselves "the reality-based community".

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Reality is a woman? Everything suddenly makes sense.

Paul Zrimsek said...

We're going to keep putting classified information out where the Russians can see it until we finally convince you people that you should be worried about the Russians.

Browndog said...

Everything about this stinks to high heaven.

1. Timing; the week of Comey

2. Georgia. Following the election, Georgia election officials reported several attempts by DHS to hack their election data base days before the election, and going to file a lawsuit. Indiana later discovered the same thing. The story has been purged.

3. NSA/CIA can and does leave obvious Russian footprints when they hack.

4. "Reality" just happened to stumble across a document she had no access to, or authorization to access. Knowing what she would do with it was a no brainer.

exiledonmainstreet said...

" Reality Winner, sent in February. Winner, who is herself white, tweeted at rapper Kanye West that he should make a shirt declaring whiteness an act of terror.

“@kanyewest you should make a shirt that says, ‘being white is terrorism’,” she tweeted."

That's Inga idea of a heroine. Well, flies love shit.

In the meantime some poor little Somali refugee held a woman hostage in Australia and murdered a man before being killed himself.

The authorities responsible for letting him think like Inga. They have blood on their hands.

Inga said...

"corrupt the election." The proper spelling is: "disclose the truth".

So, in Trumpists eyes, the Russians are heroes for hacking the DNC and "disclosing the truth", yet this young woman committed espionage for disclosing the truth? You see nothing wrong with this? Your patriotism, if you have any, is upside down.

Kevin said...

"She was a veteran of the Air Force, a whistleblower and a patriot."

Snowden is a patriot. He busted the government for violating the law. This girl distributed classified information that was collected in an ongoing investigation into possible wrongdoing. It was not being hidden or used improperly. Her only goal was to advance a media narrative.

That's not a patriot.

Matthew Sablan said...

Russians may or may not have hacked the DNC; the FBI was never allowed to look at the DNC's hacked computers and had to rely on a report compiled by people hired by the DNC, a report which the company eventually walked back to a much more cautious statement.

Clyde said...

Out: Drugs are for people who can't handle reality.
Far Out: Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.
In: Reality is for people who can't handle Trump.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

By the way, some of you might be interested in this.

http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/05/some-notes-on-trumps-cybersecurity.html#more

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Your patriotism, if you have any, is upside down.

Oh Inga, you are such a glorious, glorious troll.

Kevin said...

"So, in Trumpists eyes, the Russians are heroes for hacking the DNC and "disclosing the truth", yet this young woman committed espionage for disclosing the truth? You see nothing wrong with this? Your patriotism, if you have any, is upside down."

So hacking against Trump is patriotic but hacking against Hillary is wrong?

Disclosing the truth is not "corrupting the election". That was my point. I took no position on the hacking itself.

Clyde said...

So she speaks Pashto, Farsi and Dari. She can say "I'm totally screwed" in four languages.

Winner, Winner, prison dinner!

New Reality show concept: Game of Thrones Leavenworth. Winner is Coming!

I could do this all day!

Jim said...

Mockturtle @9:05. All that's true, but I've heard that Reality Bites.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga's idea of a "patriot" stands with Iran!

"Reality Winner, the 25-year-old Air Force veteran and federal contractor being charged with espionage for allegedly leaking a top-secret NSA document to The Intercept, had apparently been vocal about opposing President Donald Trump, and said she would "stand" with Iran in a hypothetical war with the US."

Yeah, she's a regular Yankee Doodle Dandy.
Winner is a loser.

Clyde said...

Maybe she could change her name in prison. I understand that someone left a Bradley lying around unused.

Inga said...

"Reality Winner, the 25-year-old Air Force veteran and federal contractor being charged with espionage for allegedly leaking a top-secret NSA document to The Intercept, had apparently been vocal about opposing President Donald Trump, and said she would "stand" with Iran in a hypothetical war with the US."

Of course there's no citation. I could say you're a snarling drooling bulldog, would that make it true?

exiledonmainstreet said...

Here you go, traitorous Kat woman:

http://www.businessinsider.com/reality-winner-iran-stand-war-twitter-us-nsa-leak-2017-6

Darrell said...

If Inga had a daughter. . .

Bill Peschel said...

All this talk of conspiracies reminds me of something my wife -- who spent her time in windowless rooms on behalf of the US and had top secret clearance -- says: "I've worked with these people. They're not smart enough."

grackle said...

Given the recent revelations that the NSA has the capability to make a hack look like Russia, and their tools were leaked, the case seems as strong that the hackers were trying to help Hillary as to help Trump. Weak in both cases.

Bingo! And a brand new Chef'n VeggiChop Hand-Powered Food Chopper (Arugula) for this commentor …


Another winner!

Russians may or may not have hacked the DNC; the FBI was never allowed to look at the DNC's hacked computers and had to rely on a report compiled by people hired by the DNC, a report which the company eventually walked back to a much more cautious statement.

For this commentor a wonderful KitchenAid KHM512ER 5-Speed Ultra Power Hand Mixer, Empire Red

Inga said...

I read that, Hexiled. The Business Insider does not give a source or a direct quote. Just because the BI reported this does it make it truth? No. I want to see where they got this from. Just giving a quotation doesn't cut it. That's sloppy reporting.

Kevin said...

" No. I want to see where they got this from. Just giving a quotation doesn't cut it. That's sloppy reporting."

Unless it's about Trump and Russia.

Darrell said...

@kanyewest you should make a shirt that says, "being white is terrorism"


Well, her parents named her Sara. She took "Reality" when she started to lose it.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Traitorous Kat Woman,

This is her Feb. 7 tweet, sent to Iran's foreign minister:


Sara Winners @Reezlie


@JZarif There are many Americans protesting US govt aggression towards Iran. If our Tangerine in Chief declares war, we stand with you!

http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/06/05/we-stand-with-you-if-trump-declares-war-accused-leaker-reportedly-tweeted-to-irans-foreign-minister/


exiledonmainstreet said...

Unless it's about Trump and Russia.

6/6/17, 9:55 AM

Yeah, Krazy Kat Woman will believe any shit she reads about that.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Darrell said...
If Inga had a daughter. . .

6/6/17, 9:50 AM

Yep.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Tangerine in Chief"

It's a pity Reality Loser hates orange so much. She's going to be wearing it on a daily basis.

Sebastian said...

I am just impressed with all the Top Men and now Top Women working for the Air Force and the NSA.

Why would the Russians need to collude with anyone when they are up against the likes of O, Hill, Snowden, and Winner?

Virtually Unknown said...

Well, we have it from the Democrats now, all hackers and leakers are heroes. Even the crazy lady with the pussy hat avatar says so. So I guess there will be no more complaining about Podesta's emails and perhaps they can shut Hillary up with a massive eye-roll in unison the next time she bleats.

Seeing Red said...

Bwaaaaa finally! We can start a voter fraud investigation and have a serious conversation.

Robert Cook said...

"It's the patented Lena Dunham Person-of-Indeterminate-Gender look."

You think Reality Winner and Lena Dunham have a look of indeterminate gender? They are both clearly female. I think you really mean you find them unattractive.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Virtually Unknown said...
Well, we have it from the Democrats now, all hackers and leakers are heroes. Even the crazy lady with the pussy hat avatar says so. So I guess there will be no more complaining about Podesta's emails and perhaps they can shut Hillary up with a massive eye-roll in unison the next time she bleats."

Nah.

"It's different when we do it."

Virtually Unknown said...

Saw the picture on Drudge that must be the one Titus saw. She looks sort of like a queer teenage boy. (I use the term queer with respect, just sayin') So I see why Titus thinks she's hot.

Also, why can't spell checker figure out that if you end a word with an apostrophe, you intend to leave out a letter and they don't need to 'correct' it, since it is spelled properly, and 'correcting' the spelling, but leaving the apostrophe is worse.

Seeing Red said...

As to the Commies, they've been trying to sway elections since the 30s. May be even the 20s.

Seeing Red said...

And not just in the States.

h said...

Read the comments on the story in the Washington Post. It makes one fear for the future of humanity.

A lot of commenters are bothered (to put it mildly) that Trump, as President, has the legal ability to determine what things should be classified, and what things should be released to the public; while others commit a crime when they take similar actions (deciding for themselves what should be released). "Why isn't Trump being charged with crimes for his leaks?" the commenters wonder. And "Why should this even be a crime, when releasing the classified information is so clearly in the public interest?"

Sebastian said...

@Seeing: "We can start a voter fraud investigation and have a serious conversation." Sorry, no. Everyone already knows voter fraud doesn't exist but the Russians did "hack the elections."

If I were a Russian "operative," trying to get the weakest candidate elected (Hill in 16), I'd zero in on manipulating mailed-in and absentee ballots.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Virtually Unknown said...
Saw the picture on Drudge that must be the one Titus saw. She looks sort of like a queer teenage boy. (I use the term queer with respect, just sayin') So I see why Titus thinks she's hot."

She's a bit pale for Titus' taste, isn't she? Although she thinks white people are icky too, so there's that.

Nonapod said...

The real lesson here may be to never give security clearance to people with a silly names.

eric said...

Blogger exiledonmainstreet said...
Traitorous Kat Woman,

This is her Feb. 7 tweet, sent to Iran's foreign minister:


Sara Winners @Reezlie


@JZarif There are many Americans protesting US govt aggression towards Iran. If our Tangerine in Chief declares war, we stand with you!

http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/06/05/we-stand-with-you-if-trump-declares-war-accused-leaker-reportedly-tweeted-to-irans-foreign-minister/



6/6/17, 10:01 AM


For future reference, you're doing this wrong.

I understand the desire to give the link and prove she wrote it. But consider a different approach next time.

First, admit to the Ingas of the world that yeah, maybe it's not a real quote.

Second, ask, "But you agree then, if it is a real quote, that she is a traitor?" Or whatever word you want to use there.

Finally, laugh as she ties herself in knots trying not to get locked down in that regard.

Because really, Inga doesn't care if she said that. Your link will only cause her to move goal posts.

It's a lot more entertaining when you get them to tie themselves in knots before you prove they said it.

roesch/voltaire said...

Another example of who commits the leaks as more important than the information that points to more Russian involvement in disrupting out democratic process. I say lets privatize more NSA workers so we can have more leaks.

Yancey Ward said...

This sounds like a deliberate mole hunt to me. I think you are going to see more of this in the coming weeks and months as the administration flushes out the leakers.

Sammy Finkelman said...

Matthew Sablan said...6/6/17, 8:51 AM

I just don't get how the Russians are both the most expert hackers ever to leave zero evidence, and also the most incompetent hackers ever where they sometimes even code in Cyrillic so that people know "Russians been here, yo."

More than one hacker; limited number of people involved so they don't all have high skill or consider all angles; and focus on the intrusion being undetected, and not on if whether, once the intrusion is detected and stopped and the software examined, who wrote the software can be deduced from examining the malicious code.


Daniel Jackson said...

In all of this madness, and now comes Reality, why is there no mention of Hillary "Why Am I Not Ahead By Fifty Percent" Clinton? Really. Who had the biggest motive to hack the elections? The Russians? They get an asshole either way? Trump? Not really that likely since he was an outsider.

But Monsieur Obama and Madame Clinton? They had both the tools and the motive to hack the election and blame it on who else? The Russians.

Why is this so hard to grasp? It's rather simple and pretty much the only direction NOT covered and beaten to death.

Hacking voting machine software really sounds like an inside job. And, who hired this bimbo anyway?

Kylos said...

" I can't get a an article behind the NYT paywall, and basically the lowest level employee can download anything at the NSA."

Sure you can. You just have to cancel loading the page at the right time after the content has loaded but before the paywall is put up.

Sammy Finkelman said...

So she speaks Pashto, Farsi and Dari.

Pashto and Dari are versions of Persian (Farsi), only with more grammar.

YoungHegelian said...

And the audit system is fairly comprehensive with regard to who accesses what.

In this case that does seem to be true. My guess is they are using Solaris or some version of Linux. Some people are speculating that she wanted to be caught. She had to know their would be an audit trail, and she apparently had the email address of the "news outlet" she sent the document to on her work computer.


I think there's a very good chance that the document Ms Winning stole was meant to be the bait in a honeypot. It has all the tidbits in it that would have made it irresistible to her all in one document.

If this document was used as bait, it calls into question whether any of it is true. Needless to say, neither the FBI nor NSA is going to volunteer this information, so we can all just keep guessing until 50 years from now & the documents are declassified.

Virtually Unknown said...

"who wrote the software can be deduced from examining the malicious code."

Been out of the country, Sammy? I am on my phone or I would provide you with a link to why that is not true.

Earnest Prole said...

Didn't Trump promise us so much winning?

Yancey Ward said...

It is funny how it is all "analysis" minus all the data, don't you think? Wouldn't a report like this have the supporting data as, at the very least, an addendum, if not in the body of the report itself?

I think Ms. Winner was a fool who got hooked by bait. There will be more Ms. Winners.

Sammy Finkelman said...

Daniel Jackson said...6/6/17, 11:01 AM

And, who hired this bimbo anyway?

Ultimately, Obama.

They are not vetted for political sophistication.

The system limits the amount of computer based restrictioons on who can access what, People are apparently not supposed to download anything they don't need for their work, but not physically stopped from much on the grounds this would slow down work.
Records are maintained of who does what. So this relies more on deterrence than security.

It's much like police looking up driver's license or other personal information.

Virtually Unknown said...

Interference with democracy = providing the electorate with true information. It's amazing to me how liberals can stop a train of thought on a dime so they don't go past their preferred partisan conclusion.

When are you guys going to admit that Hillary was not only corrupt, but worse, a world class fuck up who should never have gotten as near to the presidency as she did?

Sammy Finkelman said...

who wrote the software can be deduced from examining the malicious code."

They can give it away by doing things like leaving something in a foreign language embedded in the code by accident, or the date and time stamps. The Stuxnet virus was linked to Israel because the date and time stamps, although not accurate, were offset by the same amount of time from the normal hours of work in Israel, including observing Jewish holidays.

Some of the Russian things seem to have observed normal business hours, indicating it is state sponsored because hackers working on their own would keep different hours.

And then there's the use of the same or very similiar software in other attacks where the target would only be of interest to certain parties.

Putin practically admitted to Megyn Kelly on NBC that it was Russians, but claimed people did this on their own out of patriotic feelings.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Some of the Russian things seem to have observed normal business hours, indicating it is state sponsored because hackers working on their own would keep different hours."

-- Was this information kept in the revised version of the report which walked back, significantly, the strength of the claims?

YoungHegelian said...

@Sammy Finkelman,

Records are maintained of who does what. So this relies more on deterrence than security.

That's the best case scenario, Sammy. Clearly, judging from the leaks we'd had from the NSA recently, they haven't been following up on their access logs too thoroughly.

My experience with the Intel community (FBI & NSA): they make life hell for anyone on the outside to do anything. But, once you're "trusted" & on the inside, they're way too lax about following procedures. An example, Aldrich Ames, who when questioned about why there were this large cash deposits to his bank account (from the Russians), told the FBI that his Columbian wife had rich relatives. Columbia, at the time, was the center of the drug trade for the Americas! It's like telling the cops "Oh, no, I couldn't have murdered that guy. I was busy robbing Central Bank". But, the FBI, God bless their stupidity, let him skate for years more.

exiledonmainstreet said...

eric, you are correct. Yours is the more subtle approach.

Mary Beth said...

Inga said...

I read that, Hexiled. The Business Insider does not give a source or a direct quote. Just because the BI reported this does it make it truth? No. I want to see where they got this from. Just giving a quotation doesn't cut it. That's sloppy reporting.

6/6/17, 9:53 AM


How about this? The WaPo confirms it's her account - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/6/reality-winner-revealed-twitter-anti-trump-hack/

Her account is still live - &Reezlie - https://twitter.com/Reezlie

Bruce Hayden said...

" Even the crazy lady with the pussy hat avatar says so."

Be fair now - she has switched to the crazy cat lady avatar now instead.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Mary Beth, that's Washington Times link. I think Inga's favorite sources will avoid publicizing that tweet.

They've got a "She's a brave patriot!" meme going now. That tweet is bit inconvenient for them.

FullMoon said...

She was arrested an hour after publication


Pretty darn fast !
Someone had to read the story. They probably had to call a higher up, who arranged a committe to decide what to do about it. Committe agrees to put tech guys on it to track down leaker. Tech tracks it, reports to higher up, who makes a phone call to gives order to arrest her. Authorities walk out to parking garage get in car and drive to her location. Park, enter building, find her and arrest her.

That is what I would call government efficiency.
Or, she was set up.

And, hacking voter rolls? Good for Dem fundraising or propoganda

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Sammy Finkelman said...

Some of the Russian things seem to have observed normal business hours, indicating it is state sponsored because hackers working on their own would keep different hours.

Of course, any of these tell-tale signs that we know to look for can be readily faked by any moderately skilled hacker who knows we look for them.

Mary Beth said...

Whoops, Washington Times, then. Thanks. I should have noticed that I didn't have to open it in a private/incognito window.

If anyone is interested, her instagram is also still live and uses the same @reelzie handle. Look at the photos if you want more verification that it's the same person.

William said...

I would have less qualms about betraying my country if I lived in Nazi Germany as opposed to America. I think this woman believes that Trump's America is a version of Nazi Germany. I also think that there are many more like her in the gdvernment and at all levels of security clearance. The lesson that they will learn from this is that they have to be more circumspect and furtive in their activities. My paranoia level is rising.

Matthew Sablan said...

Full Moon: If she was set up, does that mean we don't think the leaked information is right?

I think more likely, the decision was made when they learned the information was compromised to think, "Eh... this isn't that damaging and people already know this." So they waited to see what would happen.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

FullMoon said...

Pretty darn fast !
Someone had to read the story.


Someone from the Intercept tried to verify the authenticity of the document by running it by another government employee ( or contractor ). That person notified higher-ups, so the investigation could have started at that time. If they had enough info to identify the document that would have narrowed the investigation down to 6 people who printed it out. Once the story was published, the included document contained info showing when and where it was printed, which confirmed who printed it.

Reasonably efficient, but not in any way unreasonably efficient.

Mary Beth said...

She was arrested an hour after publication

The story as I understand it:

The reporter got a photo (I think it was a photo, may have been another type of copy) of the document from her but verified it with someone who could authenticate it. Presumably, he didn't know that it was marked with dots that would indicate its origin. The person who was asked about its authenticity did know and could tell where it came from.

They knew before it was published.

Yancey Ward said...

Yes, it is the speed at which she was arrested that makes this almost surely a deliberate mole hunt- they were literally waiting for the story to pop up online to move against her. It is quite possible that Winning was already under investigation for prior leaks, or at the very least she and her closest colleagues.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Aldrich Ames, who when questioned about why there were this large cash deposits to his bank account (from the Russians), told the FBI that his Columbian wife had rich relatives. Columbia, at the time, was the center of the drug trade for the Americas!

It's mind boggling. Were they really that incompetent, or was someone high-up enabling the espionage?

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I think there's a very good chance that the document Ms Winning stole was meant to be the bait in a honeypot. It has all the tidbits in it that would have made it irresistible to her all in one document.

I hadn't thought of that, it does sound plausible.

Also, or after they discovered Ames, did they allow him to continue because they were feeding him misinformation or using him to discover other moles?

It gets pretty murky very quickly.

Virtually Unknown said...

The thing about the business hours originally came from a Trump luxury properties email campaign sent out during us hours, and like dandelion seeds, some of them landed in Russia and were clicked on during Russian business hours. This was characterized as nefarious communication with a sanctioned bank by the press.

Do you have any evidence that this hacking attempt followed that pattern?

Matthew Sablan said...

"It's mind boggling. Were they really that incompetent, or was someone high-up enabling the espionage?"

-- Hanlon's Razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Virtually Unknown said...

Who fucking leaked how they caught her?

n.n said...

Another day, another baby hunt, full of liberal inference, political intrigue, and journolists revealing sources and methods.

YoungHegelian said...

@Ron W,

It's mind boggling. Were they really that incompetent, or was someone high-up enabling the espionage?

Oh, the story's worse than that, Ron. Why a shithead like Ames didn't get bounced years before boggles the mind.

It does kinda reek of someone higher up covering for him, doesn't it?

n.n said...

Wasn't Water Closet investigated by a company located in the post-coup Ukraine?

That, the DNC affiliated press, foreign intelligence influence, and a disenfranchised Democrat now deceased, seem to be the hallmarks of an incestuous relationship ripe for a coverup.

grackle said...

They can give it away by doing things like leaving something in a foreign language embedded in the code by accident, or the date and time stamps.

Easy to fake.

The Stuxnet virus was linked to Israel because the date and time stamps, although not accurate, were offset by the same amount of time from the normal hours of work in Israel, including observing Jewish holidays.

Exactly as how a smart hacker would leave a false trail and also easy to fake. Try again.

Some of the Russian things seem to have observed normal business hours, indicating it is state sponsored because hackers working on their own would keep different hours.

See above.

And then there's the use of the same or very similar software in other attacks where the target would only be of interest to certain parties.

The commentor is apparently not familiar with the term, “false flag,” as described below:

The contemporary term false flag describes covert operations that are designed to deceive in such a way that activities appear as though they are being carried out by entities, groups, or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them.

Putin practically admitted to Megyn Kelly on NBC that it was Russians, but claimed people did this on their own out of patriotic feelings.

Use quotes with links for the readers or be outed as a bullshiter. Otherwise you are simply regurgitating MSM talking points. We’ll wait patiently.

Here’s the plain truth. There is no way hackers can be caught if they are careful. They can make it seem that the hacking originated anywhere they wish. They love to leave false “clues” for the dummkopfs who are searching for a narrative.

Krumhorn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Krumhorn said...

This seems to run against the right-wing narrative that the Russians didn't do anything

Way to misstate the issue ARM! Nobody says the Russians did nothing. The question is whether or not they did it in collusion with Trump, or if they were at all successful. While the Clinton email hack and the DNC hack have been variously attributed to the Russians or the Norks, those hacks were invited not by Trump, but rather by the Dems themselves due to their arrogance and carelessness.

Focus ARM!

- Krumhorn

Inga said...

Tell me how you people who praise Russia for hacking the DNC and attempting to disrupt our democratic elections are any better than this young woman? Russia is NOT our ally....unless you're Trump and you owe them something. Cyber warfare is real and those of you who stand with Russia should not throw stones at her. Hypocrites.

"Reality Winner, the 25-year-old Air Force veteran and federal contractor being charged with espionage for allegedly leaking a top-secret NSA document to The Intercept, had apparently been vocal about opposing President Donald Trump, and said she would "stand" with Iran in a hypothetical war with the US."
----------------------------
"Sara Winners @Reezlie
·
Feb 7

Replying to @JZarif
There are many Americans protesting US govt aggression towards Iran. If our Tangerine in Chief declares war, we stand with you!"
----------------------------

Gospace said...

Ron Winkleheimer said...
This is interesting.

http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.html#.WTaYJRPytsY

I'm reminded that the BTK killer was captured because they were able to track a Word file that he sent to the cops to a computer at his church.


This is why you should keep an old 9 pin dot matrix printer around along with an old Atari or Commodore 64 running a simple word processor to write your mailed threats and political missives on. A little slower, sure, but much more secure.

And when you mail the threats, do it from a post office more then 50 miles from home. And don't set a pattern where your location is in the middle of the post offices...

Virtually Unknown said...

Russia's not our "enemy" either, and we shouldn't be ginning up hatred toward another country in a thinly veiled attempt to gain partisan advantage.

Latest theory that I heard and like, the Russians were snooping to find evidence that Hillary was rigging the election, the way her campaign supressed Sanders votes in the primary.

Virtually Unknown said...

We should photoshop Inga's pussy hat avatar over some of the old images the Democrats came out with to mock Sarah Palin for suggesting that Russia deserved careful watching.

http://boingboing.net/images/x_2008/putinrearshishead.jpg

https://media.giphy.com/media/qd0UlbHzgx64o/giphy.gif

The second one would work pretty good for the cat in the hat lady.

Inga said...

"Russia's not our "enemy" either....."

Yes, they are. If you don't think what they did was Cyber warfare and an act of aggression, you are no patriot.

Virtually Unknown said...

This is how the whole war against Saddam got ginned up Inga.

Somebody here said lefties like to play with fire because they don't know fire is hot.

Virtually Unknown said...

I will happily wait for some kind of proof before I let my trigger finger get itchy.

Virtually Unknown said...

Remember the Maine!

hombre said...

Wow. The Russians supposedly went to all that trouble and Hillary still lost? Sad.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Russia's not our "enemy" either....."

"Yes, they are."

-- The 80s called. They want their foreign policy back.

Virtually Unknown said...

Putin's cronies had already proven Hillary could be bought, and had tens of millions of dollars sunk into her. Weird that she would take that much money from an enemy of the United States of America. Not sure why Putin would want anybody else when it had already been demonstrated that Hillary was a whore for sale.

hombre said...

I'm late here, but has anyone else mentioned that the Obot populated intelligence community leaks like a sieve - intentionally and unintentionally? These folks may be loyal to something, but it's not our country. Their delusions maybe?

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

"Somebody here said lefties like to play with fire because they don't know fire is hot."

I'm not advocating a shooting war with Russia. But Russia should not be let off the hook. Why did Trump push to lift sanctions that Obama put on them for espionage and cyber hacking? Why is Trump ready to lift sanctions for Russia's incursion into the Crimea and eastern Ukraine? Why did Trump allow the Russian ambassador and foreign minister into the Oval Office? Russia burned us with their cyber warfare and you people think it's great because it hurt the candidate you didn't want. This could happen again with a candidate you actually want next time. It's happened in Europe's elections also. Is this acceptable to you Trumpists? You've sunk to Trump's level.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

And when you mail the threats, do it from a post office more then 50 miles from home. And don't set a pattern where your location is in the middle of the post offices...

Even this is getting to a point were it won't help. Automatic cameras are photographing car license plates and loading the image to a centralized, searchable database.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/05/13/i-team-texas-firm-tracking-your-car-with-license-plate-cameras/

We are in the panopticon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

Matthew Sablan said...

Inga: Obama held off on doing anything until Clinton was harmed by Russia's actions. I think that if Obama had played it straight and applied the sanctions the moment we knew it happened, it would make it harder to lift. As it is, the punishment wasn't for the espionage or cyber hacking, it was for being blamed by Hillary Clinton. That's bad politics and is on Obama for dawdling.

Obama did very little to deal with the incursion into Crimea, and Obama promised Russia's government more flexibility, despite KNOWING at the time the extent of Russia's cyber activities.

The only and sole reason Obama ever "Got tough" with Russia is to try and help Clinton. It makes it a very weak bargaining position for me to take the left seriously when they go from "the 1980s called" to "Russia is America's greatest geopolitical foe" just because it would help Clinton.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Inga, telling Trump supporters that they have sunk to his level does not strike me as a sound method to sway their opinions. But, I don't know, maybe that sort of thing works for your social circle. If I said that your obfuscation means you are sinking to Hillary's level, would that influence your opinion on anything?

Etienne said...

I've sent in my volunteer statement to operate the electric chair toggle-switch, if no one else is available.

Big Mike said...

@Etienne, they haven't used electric chairs for years. Are you a doctor? You could volunteer to hook up the IV for the lethal injection.

Original Mike said...

Inga said..."Why did Trump allow the Russian ambassador and foreign minister into the Oval Office?"

We missed your input on Sunday's Russian conspiracy thread.

BN said...

I read on Druidge that her name was Reality Czech before she was adopted by Carlos and Huma Danger. Is that true?

tcrosse said...

Wow. The Russians supposedly went to all that trouble and Hillary still lost? Sad.

No! She won, goddammit ! She beat Donald Trump !

Inga said...

Ron,
I'm not trying to sway your opinions. That doesn't concern me. I'm here to o express mine.

Kevin said...

Why did Trump push to lift sanctions that Obama put on them for espionage and cyber hacking? Why is Trump ready to lift sanctions for Russia's incursion into the Crimea and eastern Ukraine?

"Push to lift"? "Ready to lift"? Those are vague words. Any credible sources Inga? And not those mysterious unattributed ones the NYT is so fond of.

Of course he's trying to get Russia to help us fight ISIS. And of course he's looking at what might offer them to do so. That would be prudent Presidenting, don't you think? Isn't this exactly what he said he'd do during the campaign?

Drop something here. Modify something there. Change something there. This is the thinking of a dealmaker, not a Russian agent in the White House.

Kevin said...

"I'm not advocating a shooting war with Russia."

Well then Russia is going to push you around like they did Obama. And if you're Trump, they're not only going to push you around, they're going to give his critics more "smoke" to believe he's in cahoots with them.

The minute you draw the line at shooting war, Putin has you.

Clyde said...

One final thought from me on this one: This is what happens when you fill someone's heart with hatred and her head with mush, and then she is persuaded that committing career suicide and probably being imprisoned for several years is a "smart" thing to do. She'll never have any kind of job involving a security clearance again. I won't say that she'll have a problem finding a job once she gets out of prison, because she's going to be the Democrats' cause celebre for a while. She's a martyr for their cause, so they'll find some kind of sinecure for her, felony record or no.

I do hope that they throw the book at her, though, as an example to anyone else considering the same kind of treasonous behavior. Although after tweeting venom about President Trump and Attorney General Sessions, the likelihood of the Justice Department seeking the maximum penalty possible for her is likely. And as I noted in last night's café post, she won't be able to get a pardon until there's an outgoing Democrat president. The earliest that can happen is January 2025.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Tell me how you people who praise Russia for hacking the DNC and attempting to disrupt our democratic elections are any better than this young woman?"

Tell me when I have praised Russia or Putin. I'm not under any illusions that he is a nice guy. Alas, he should send flowers and chocolates to the DNC, who are making him seem vastly more powerful than he actually is. Some Russians (like Putin) acutely felt their loss of status after the Wall came down. They were no longer a feared Super Power (although they still had nukes).

The Dems have certainly Made Russia Great Again!

None of us would "stand with Russia" if it came to a shooting war - which is what the Dems are apparently itching for.

And we're not "any better than this young woman?" Why, just this morning you were calling her a brave patriot!

Kevin said...

"If you don't think what they did was Cyber warfare and an act of aggression, you are no patriot."

Are you calling Obama a traitor? Or maybe just a pussy.

Kevin said...

"I won't say that she'll have a problem finding a job once she gets out of prison, because she's going to be the Democrats' cause celebre for a while."

She can run for Congress in the right district.

Original Mike said...

"They stress the thing they imagine is true, though they don't have proof, and they keep asserting that they are going to find the evidence later."

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I'm not trying to sway your opinions. That doesn't concern me. I'm here to o express mine.

What's the point of that? Seriously. Expressing opinions without trying to influence others makes sense when discussing aesthetic matters with your decorator. Having a political discussion without trying to influence someone else is completely futile.

khesanh0802 said...

@Hari 60,000 can keep a secret if 59,999 of them are dead.

Apologies to Mark Twain.

BN said...

Leaking state secrets is the last refuge of a patriot.

Titus said...

I don't think white people are icky. All my good friends are white.

I just prefer "men of color" for my sexual activity.

Vittorio Jano IV said...

Almost fifty years ago, Arlo Guthrie predicted the "government efficiency" noted by FullMoon above. Those with very short attention spans could begin listening at about 3:00, and those who want a bit of background could start at 1:57 or so. ("The Pause of Mr. Claus")

https://youtu.be/17gKw_j6Qq0

Mary Beth said...

I'm not advocating a shooting war with Russia.

Then you didn't like it last September when Clinton said that, as President, she would use the military in response to cyberattacks? She specifically mentioned Russia.

Matthew Blaine said...

She was caught because she was using an NSA printer.

This post from Errata Security explains how.

Mary Beth said...

After the Vault 7 release, why is anyone accepting "the malware looked like it was by the Russians" as evidence they did the hacking?

The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.

With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.


They also used VPNs. (Who hasn't?)

Is anyone here so computer-naive as to believe that only the CIA had the tools to do this? Or that hackers don't share/sell their tools? You might have an idea of who used some malware first but you can't tell who used it last.

Russians, with or without the support of their government, may have done it, but none of the evidence we've been told about proves that.

Original Mike said...

"After the Vault 7 release, why is anyone accepting "the malware looked like it was by the Russians" as evidence they did the hacking?"

Because they want to believe it.

chickelit said...

Kevin wrote: Of course he's trying to get Russia to help us fight ISIS. And of course he's looking at what might offer them to do so. That would be prudent Presidenting, don't you think? Isn't this exactly what he said he'd do during the campaign?

Hillary Clinton's hot mic retort: "In my Goldwater Girl days, the American people would have joined me in a heartbeat to defeat Putin. So why am I losing this fight? What changed?"

Friedrich Engels' Barber said...

Now that it looks like Obama was spying on Americans, perhaps even Supreme Court justices, do we need to reevaluate John Roberts' apparent about-face on the Obamacare decision. Not that I am a conspiracy guy ;-).

JAORE said...

"She is fucking hot. Smoking workout body, tats on her back, blonde, nice tits, tight ass."

"She looks coarse."

Are these mutually exclusive? I think not.

Had the discussion with a GF MANY years ago, pre-Ms. JAORE). GF said so-and-so looks cheap and easy. Why do guys flock to her?

I replied, cheap AND easy.

Etienne said...

Regardless of any T&A, that girl looks like every mental patient I've ever met.

Look at that facial expression. She has no teeth, and she isn't smiling. Even in her tourist pictures, she looks drugged to keep her non-violent.