May 7, 2017

"Marine Le Pen... quickly called the 39-year-old Macron to concede defeat after voters rejected her 'French-first' nationalism by a large margin."

"The result wasn't even close: Pollsters projected that Macron won 65 percent of the votes. Le Pen's projected 35 percent score was lower than her polling numbers earlier in the campaign...."

235 comments:

1 – 200 of 235   Newer›   Newest»
Jake said...

The French. Sexist as always.

David Begley said...

Yeah. Whatever happened to breaking the glass ceiling?

Mike said...

A woman who knows how to be graceful in defeat. How continental if Le Pen.

W.B. Picklesworth said...

One day they will say, "Why didn't we even try to defend our country?"

Mike said...

Of dang it! "...of Le Pen"

tcrosse said...

We'll see if her concession was as sincere as Hillary's was.

Rae said...

But she has a vagina. You misogynists let me down.

Prediction: the next big scandal will be that Macron has an affair.

Inga said...

The French apparently are smarter than the Russians, unlike Trumpist America.

M Jordan said...

Stocks to jump tomorrow. Globalists happy.

Rae said...

The French apparently are smarter than the Russians, unlike Trumpist America.

Macron is likely a Russian agent. There are Russian keywords all over the #MacronLeaks.

chickelit said...

Merkel danced a jig!

heyboom said...

Once a surrender monkey, always a surrender monkey.

Inga said...

The Dutch populist Geert Wilders also lost back in March. Looks like Europe won't be following the US's blunder.

Alex said...

Surrender monkeys keep surrendering. If the French people don't care about preserving their own culture, why the fuck should I?

RIP France(987-2017AD). I guess nothing is meant to last longer than 1000 years.

C.U.N.T. said...

The polls were wrong again by 3 percent again.

Alex said...

Inga... you must be salivating over the 2018 midterms. Dems will run on "The GOP will kill people" and show re-enactments of Paul Ryan pushing grandma over the cliff and other lovelies.

I tell you, if the GOP doesn't get their BALLS back soon, America is finished not long after France.

Alex said...

Can you imagine the scene on American college campuses tomorrow? The lefty student bodies will declare a 'Day of Celebration' and proceed to burn down their campus antifa style.

Alex said...

A woman who knows how to be graceful in defeat. How continental if Le Pen.

Honestly if I were Le Pen, I'd be raging and sad inside. My country just committed national suicide.

Fernandinande said...

heyboom said...
Once a surrender monkey, always a surrender monkey.


google translates "surrender monkey" to "Mon Dieu" in French.

I think the full quote should be
"Singe d'capitulation mange du fromage."

exiledonmainstreet said...

Well, it's their choice. Unlike the left, I accept the results of elections.

I just hope the terrorists don't succeed in blowing up the Louvre or Notre Dame before the French finally wake up.

buwaya said...

For what its worth, whats being cited are exit polls, not results. The actual vote may well be different.

For the real thing, look for Le Figaro Elections Resultats Presidentielle 2017

Note the count may be skewed at the moment as the earliest complete results are from overseas territories like Martinique that are very heavy pro Macron.

I still have hopes for 60-40.

Alex said...

ISIS can blow up the Louvre & Notre Dame and the French will be sa·cré bleu....

Hagar said...

But what happened to the (formerly) major French political parties?

Angel-Dyne said...

Results as expected. The usual suspects will be regaling us for the next few weeks with non-stop "the populist backlash is dead" triumphalism. Macron will be about as satisfactory as Hollande, so things will get more interesting in due course. I think this is a good time to store up the next few weeks' gleeful punditry, to compare it with what they'll be wailing about this time next year.

By the way, where's our electoral oracle, Mick?

Alex said...

Angel-Dyne... in Canada there is no end in sight to the gleefulness over Trudeau win. 18 months and still going. There is no reason to think that France isn't in the full lemming mode of "eat, drink, fuck and be merry because next month ISIS will kill us all anyways".

In classical Freudian psychoanalytic theory, the death drive (German: Todestrieb) is the drive towards death and self-destruction.

buwaya said...

Mick has not, yet, quite, failed us, as the French vote is still being counted. St Joan and St Denis could still intercede. A Hail Mary is also indicated.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Who cares?

Has Ahouse had post re the French elections in the past?

Valentine Smith said...

The French suicide wasn't complete. By the time the boy Macron's momma-wife dies it should be done.

Angel-Dyne said...

Hagar: But what happened to the (formerly) major French political parties?

They're alive and well and just got one of theirs in office again. Despite the breathless propagandizing, er, reporting, Macron is not an "outsider".

Alex said...

This is a monumental French election, that's why Ann is posting about it. In historical terms it's an utter rejection of Trump-ism and probably signals the rollback of Trump culminating in 2018 midterm wipeout and 2020 POTUS election of Moochelle Obama. If you thought 2009-2017 was awful, the 2020s are going to be hell on earth.

chickelit said...

@Jelly: See here, for example.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Chick,

I guess I coulda been a bit less lazy and try to find such.

OK, sometimes Americans care about the POF.

But, by next week even most of them won't care.

Unless you're at the Hermes flagship in Paris, and therefore near our embassy, most of the time we don't think about French-US political connections.

buwaya said...

Well, not monumental as such, but rather a proximate danger to the EU, and a scare to the system. The potential is or was for an upset to the rather firmly established status quo.

traditionalguy said...

The Media narrative is that he is the younger generation taking charge. Macaroni is 31 years younger than Trump.

But he is 5 years older than Napoleon was when he made it to Emperor of France and most of Europe too. Ivanka will handle him.

LarsPorsena said...

French vote for more of the same...plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Alex said...

In 2022, The National Front will run Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, who will be 32 years old at that point. Apparently youth is important these days to winning elections.

Angel-Dyne said...

buwaya: Mick has not, yet, quite, failed us, as the French vote is still being counted. St Joan and St Denis could still intercede. A Hail Mary is also indicated.

On my visit there last autumn, I implored Sts. Joan and Denis to save France every time I passed any of their representations in statuary, painting, or glass. That's a lot of imploring. I got the feeling they were trying to tell me that the time had not yet come - the strength of this apperception varying with the time of day or night, which I'm sure had nothing to do with the varying amount of wine in my system.

tcrosse said...

Meanwhile, across the channel, Labour got trounced in the local elections, and the Tories will clean up in the general next month.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"Apparently youth is important these days to winning elections."

We didn't get to test that w/ our geezer v geezer choice.

buwaya said...

You should care.
Whence the EU is a big question.
We have a great big perpetual international bubble.
That is a sword of Damocles over everyone, the US not being an exception, and a crisis could pop out anywhere.

The best way out is global economic growth, and the best way to that, it seems, is the US totem of Trump. If he can unlock productivity growth through deregulation.

buwaya said...

Corsica did well for Le Pen, losing only slightly to Macron so far. Not that there is another Corsican in the wings.

buwaya said...

Anyway, I dont think we can expect more official results out of France until morning there.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Buw,

Didn't ya have a Spain background?

In a couple months I'll be at the F1 race in England. But, we like to make a month out of such things. What's the best way to kill a week in Spain, in your opinion.

Titus said...

France does t have as many rednecks as us.

Inga said...

Titus wins the thread.

Lydia said...

Le Pen has too much National Front baggage. A true test of where the majority of French political hearts lie would have been a contest between Macron and Francois Fillon.

R.J. Chatt said...

Macron is a pro-business banker who never held public office before. How is that a repudiation of Trump except in the twisted spin of the media? US election: far left/centrist (Democratic party) versus populist/centrist (Republican party). France election: far right versus centrist. In both cases the centrists won.

Angel-Dyne said...

3rd to somebody: "Apparently youth is important these days to winning elections."

We didn't get to test that w/ our geezer v geezer choice.


Lol.

Interestingly (iirc) the youngest voting demographic is the most pro-FN. The geezers and the geezers-in-waiting won't go near it. I'm interested in seeing the exit poll age-group numbers, if they do that sort of thing there.

walter said...

Blogger 3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...
"Apparently youth is important these days to winning elections."
We didn't get to test that w/ our geezer v geezer choice.
--
Marty O'Malley didn't exactly catch fire..."fab" as he is.

MikeR said...

"after voters rejected her 'French-first' nationalism by a large margin." So now it's time to pretend that the 35% who voted for her, and probably another 20% who agree with her on this issue but didn't want to vote for her - don't actually exist or don't count.

buwaya said...

Walk to Compostela on the pilgrim road, and when you get there, repent.

Jack Wayne said...

PB, go to Majorca.

walter said...

He offered neither Vagina, nor adequate free stuff and class warfare.

Kassaar said...

“The Dutch populist Geert Wilders also lost back in March. Looks like Europe won't be following the US's blunder.” (Inga)

If going from 15 to 20 parliamentary seats is losing, you are absolutely right.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"France does t have as many rednecks as us."

Lucky them.

We're told that, as a result of DJT as POTUS, everyone needs to listen to the ideas of the folks in this country who have been economic losers for decades. Ignore the areas of our country that are succeeding in the 21st century, digging for coal is the key!

Sheesh.



Carry on.

walter said...

Webb is younger..but way too rational.

Inga said...

Austria also rejected far right Norbert Hofer in December.

walter said...

We should model the country after DC..since it's such a wealth hub.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Walt is on to something.

How can we get the entire world to give us dough the way DC (and surrounding areas) gets all the special interests to give them dough?

We can't have a world gov where we're the capital of the world.

Instead we should compete re innovation and the stuff that has value add v what folks pay for.

Doh!

That's right back to the parts of the country opposite the coal digging parts.

Francisco D said...

Le Pen is a French nationalist which is uncool because the Muslims who move to France are all wonderful people. As long as they burn cars in the banlieus and not the Opera District, they are quite welcome. It's only a coincidence that French Jews have been moving to Israel and America in record amounts.

By our standards, her economic platform is to the left of Bernie Sanders and Inga (if she knew anything about economics).

David said...

Not close but significant. If Macron fails to deal with the issues effectively, Le Pen now has a solid base for expansion. This may be the end of the story or the beginning of a much longer one. Time will tell.

David said...

THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR SCOTT AND TONETTE!

Macron's wife is 25 years older than he is. They are French liberals. Do any Wisconsin liberals still dare be snarky about Scott's taste for the older female? It would be so déclassé to do so.

Drago said...

Titus: "France does t have as many rednecks as us."

The French "rednecks" were wiped out fighting for French survival a few generations back.

The vast majority of those that remained are Titus/Inga types. Thus, the ease with which they surrender.

Rene Saunce said...

Tits and Inga hate farmers.

The people who grow their food. Figures.

Drago said...

David: "Not close but significant. If Macron fails to deal with the issues effectively, Le Pen now has a solid base for expansion."

Doubtful.

We are just a few decades from the French making official that which is already evident with a brand new leadership "group" in the offing.

Stein is correct, the future belongs to those who show up for it.

Sweden is already telling it's native born citizens to adapt themselves to their migrants, not the other way around.

The European warriors were all wiped out 80 years ago. The Gates of Vienna as well as Tours are now wide open.

Rene Saunce said...

Does this make France sexist and misogynist, like our rejection of corrupt Hillary?

Drago said...

Francisco is correct. European Jews are the "canaries in the coal mine" and they are fleeing "enlightened" Europe in droves.

Titus and Inga probably hate them for their anti-muslim bigotry and unwillingness to stand still while their heads are cut off.

Drago said...

You know what France needs more of? Female Genital Mutilation.

Plus lots of other really cool "non-western" practices. Like throwing gays off roofs.

But in a "good" way.

Drago said...

I wonder if the Muslims of France will celebrate their victory by staging another mass sexual assaults?

Those always seem fun and the left never seems to mind.

Inga said...

Francisco D, I don't care how far left Le Pen is supposed to be, her bigotry negates any good she could've done.

AReasonableMan said...

I agree with the righties in the limited sense that this won't have much impact one way or the other over here. What I don't understand is their obsession with muslims when it is the Chinese who are wreaking havoc in Europe. The Chinese are killing european manufacturing in a cruelly efficient manner. This is the primary source of the discontent on the continent, yet no one has any answer over there or apparently over here. Just dig more coal, as PB said.

Christopher said...

For those in need of a laugh, here is the response from Hillary Clinton's Twitter account:


"Victory for Macron, for France, the EU, & the world. Defeat to those interfering w/democracy. (But the media says I can't talk about that)"



Now I don't like Trump in the least but not a single thing has occurred since election day that has made me sad that the Clintons lost, quite the opposite actually.

Inga said...

As for the French Jewish population, Le Pen's father, Jean-Marie Le Pen was a Holocaust denier. I doubt French Jews are heartbroken over Le Pen's defeat.

Angel-Dyne said...

R.J.Chatt: Macron is a pro-business banker who never held public office before. How is that a repudiation of Trump except in the twisted spin of the media?

He's seen, correctly, as repudiating economic nationalism, anti-EU and anti-immigrant sentiment, and immigration restrictionism, whereas Trump's appeals to nationalism and immigration enforcement/restriction were strong themes in his campaign. And those, after all, are the issues that have had the media in an anti-Trump lather for so long. So I'm not seeing the "twisted spin" here, regardless of the fact that both men could be described as "pro-business" and even "pro-banker".

Whatever your personal views on "centrism", it is undeniable that the ptbs on both sides of the Atlantic were very unhappy about Trump (and Brexit), and that they're relieved and happy that Macron was handily elected.

Inga said...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/world/europe/france-marine-le-pen-jews-national-front.html

"PARIS — A casual remark about France’s wartime anti-Jewish actions by Marine Le Pen, the leader of the far-right National Front, threatened on Monday to derail her yearslong effort aimed at “un-demonizing” her party just as she is emerging as a strong contender in this month’s presidential election.

The remark was made on Sunday during an interview in which she referred to the most notorious roundup of Jews in France during World War II, when nearly 13,000 were arrested in Paris by the French police on July 16 and 17, 1942, in what is known as the “Vel d’Hiv roundup.”

“France wasn’t responsible for the Vel d’Hiv,” she said. “If there was responsibility, it is with those who were in power at the time, it is not with France. France has been mistreated, in people’s minds, for years.”

Ms. Le Pen’s words created a small eruption in an already heated campaign, drawing strong criticism by politicians right, left and center and by Jewish groups, who all saw it as an echo of her party’s anti-Semitic roots."

FullMoon said...

Can't keep an old dog down:

"Hillary Clinton attempted to tie herself to French President-elect Emmanuel Macron’s runoff victory over far-right candidate Marine Le Pen on Sunday.

Clinton posted a tweet calling Macron’s election a victory for “the world” and a “defeat” to the hackers who released Macron’s emails to the public shortly before the election, but then turned the focus towards herself, claiming “the media says I can’t talk about that.” Clinton is known to have staffers carefully craft and edit her tweets before posting."

Curious George said...

"Inga said...
As for the French Jewish population, Le Pen's father, Jean-Marie Le Pen was a Holocaust denier. I doubt French Jews are heartbroken over Le Pen's defeat."

I'm sure that the continued influx of millions of muzzies will be a better option.

Angel-Dyne said...

buwaya: Walk to Compostela on the pilgrim road, and when you get there, repent.

Have you ever walked any part of the road, buwaya? We're planning on starting in Le Puy, when we go. (I'm afraid one country's worth of repentance isn't going to be enough for me.) Just hoping things stay stable enough for a few more years. Don't really want that pilgrim experience to get too authentically medieval, if you know what I mean.

Etienne said...

Eh bien, c'est la vie...

walter said...

Jelly thinks DC's overall wealth isn't extracted from US citizens one way or the other.
Meanwhile Cali, that hub of innovation is under a cloud of debt...quite the role model.

rcocean said...

Now, I'll have to explain to my daughter why women can't be elected President in France. I'm very depressed.

The white males win again.

rcocean said...

25% of France used to be communists. Now they're Macron supporters.

The only common theme is their lack of patriotism.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

rcO,

What was our high point for communists?

Percentagewise.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

So, France votes for Catastrophic Anthropogenic Immigration Reform, anti-nativism, fascism, and cover-ups of elective regime changes, abortion fields, redistibutive change (e.g. devaluation of capital and labor), and all things selective (i.e. Pro-Choice) serving the minority (a.k.a. "1%") good.

buwaya said...

No, not really, just been in various spots on the road (Pamplona, Burgos, Leon), and to Compostela. Did not repent, I was young.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Buw,

So, getting a car is best?

traditionalguy said...

France just stuck a feather in its cap and called him Macaroni.

buwaya said...

No, in your case, probably, barefoot may be necessary.
Discalced is always better.
Check with your priest, confess, and obtain advice re hair shirts and the rosary.

buwaya said...

Or just take the train. You can get a Spanish rail pass.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Buw,

As a reformation dude, your jabber is to me as I seem to folks of the next reformation: the church of fidget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztMI0HbG3I

gspencer said...

Kent Brockman reporting from Paris on the consequences of rejecting LePen,

“Ladies and gentlemen, er, we’ve just lost the picture, but, uh, what we’ve seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft has been taken over — ‘conquered’, if you will — by a master race of giant space ants [Muslims]. It’s difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume [convert] the captive earth men or merely enslave them [or exercise the third Muslim option, kill them]. One thing is for certain, there is no stopping them; the ants [Muslims] will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect [Islamic] overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground hummus caves.”

JPS said...

Inga, 4:19:

“France wasn’t responsible for the Vel d’Hiv,” she said. “If there was responsibility, it is with those who were in power at the time, it is not with France. France has been mistreated, in people’s minds, for years.”

I detest Marine LePen, and I disagree with her above - it's a cop-out - but I can easily read this as a repudiation of the collaborationists who cooperated with the Nazis.

Her position is the same as that of Mitterand (whom I also didn't much like), but since he was a certified good guy in the minds of the left, that was of course completely different.

JPS said...

[Geez. Collaborationists who cooperated...was there another kind? Sorry, I'm not drinking enough.]

Patrick said...

Someone should ask Hillary if it was due to misogyny.

buwaya said...

Well, thats part of the problem right there.
First off, you need to unreform.

And then that fidget stuff. If we still had the good old Inquisition we wouldnt have any of that, would we?

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"we wouldnt have any of that, would we?"

Simpler times had stuff goin' for them.

OTOH, indoor plumbing is cool too.

Drago said...

3rdgrader: "What was our high point for communists?

Percentagewise."

Difficult to say since the leftists were so efficient at mass murdering their fellow citizens even as other leftists continued to emerge to embrace the totalitarian ideology.

Michael K said...

"Macron will be about as satisfactory as Hollande"

Look on the bright side. When Mitterande tried to nationalize the banks, the property prices crashed and there were lots of great chateaux available at great prices. Four guys I knew bought on near Lyon as a vacation home and it had 25 acres of olives and a caretaker cottage.

The Socialists make for great bargains in France,

Drago said...

Shorter Inga: if we talk about Le Pens father we don't have to address Muslim attacks on French Jews and accelerated Jewish flight from France.

Well played Inga. No one will miss those Jews anyway, right? Plus some of them are so icky they moved to Israel! And we know how much the leftists hate that.

LarsPorsena said...

Titus: "France does t have as many rednecks as us."

After losing House, Senate, and Presidency, American Leftists find comfort in French elections. LOL

buwaya said...

The high point of communists is now.

Numbers dont come into it. Just a few have taken all the important spots, the high ground, as per Gramsci. But they have forgotten Gramsci. Because like an out of control war machine, whose masters have died, it is out of control and is devoted only to destruction.

They have made their only God Marcuse, whose name they have mostly forgotten, but whom they worship devotedly anyway, with desolating rites.

There is no brain, or rather the brain of an imbecile, behind the preparation of K-12 teachers, of Liberal Arts faculty, of the Social sciences, of Art, Literature, and even mass media. Everyone is dumb and knows nothing, and is programmed to make everyone they can reach even more dumb.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Typically dishonest Inga blames LePen for the sins of her father. Like I said in the other thread, leftism is a twisted form of Christianity, where children are blamed for their parents sins and no redemption is possible.

How many Germans and Austrians are descended from people who didn't deny the Holocaust - they perpetrated it? 50% of the SS were Austrian. By Inga logic, we should hate those people forever for having murderous ancestors.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Rene Saunce
"Tits and Inga hate farmers."

And both are from Wisconsin, so that means they hate a significant percentage of people in their own state.

I'll bet they just adore farmer's markets and Whole Foods, where the produce just magically falls from the sky and arranges itself in pretty rows.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"The Dutch populist Geert Wilders also lost back in March. Looks like Europe won't be following the US's blunder."

Historically speaking, 35% is a successful revolution anytime they're willing to roll the dice. As someone noted above, the French establishment will pretend that those people don't exist. While they can.

Ctmom4 said...

"Looking at the Muslim community specifically, 63% of French voters in the Ipsos study said that Islam isn’t compatible with the values of French society. Looking at other religious beliefs, 24% said the same for Judaism and 9% for Catholicism. Almost three-quarters, 74%, said Muslims want to impose their values on others.

Overall, just under 70% of respondents said that religious fundamentalism is a worrying problem that needs to be seriously dealt with."

And "Since 2011, immigration is the fastest rising issue of concern among voters. It is also the issue voters least trust the country’s two main parties to handle effectively."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/jan/08/french-public-opinion-charlie-hebdo-attacks

And yet, they elect the open borders guy. Hard to square that circle.

Inga said...

"And yet, they elect the open borders guy. Hard to square that circle."

Bigotry is not as acceptable to them as it is to Trumpist America.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tcrosse said...

Bigotry is not as acceptable to them as it is to Trumpist America.

Translation: my bigotry is good, yours is bad.

Inga said...

"Typically dishonest Inga blames LePen for the sins of her father. Like I said in the other thread, leftism is a twisted form of Christianity, where children are blamed for their parents sins and no redemption is possible.

How many Germans and Austrians are descended from people who didn't deny the Holocaust - they perpetrated it? 50% of the SS were Austrian. By Inga logic, we should hate those people forever for having murderous ancestors."

Exiled you are truly one ignorant bitch. "The sins of my father"? What the hell do you know about my father? My relatives, my ancestors? As far as I know by the way you behave you descended from a band of cretins.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

This is a serious blow to the International Globalist Right.

Inga said...

"This is a serious blow to the International Globalist Right."

Yes it is. First Austria rejected a rightist candidate, then the Netherlands, now France, soon Germany.

Drago said...

Inga: "Bigotry is not as acceptable to them as it is to Trumpist America."

It most certainly is. As long as its the "right" kind.

Drago said...

The Toothless Revolutionary: "This is a serious blow to the International Globalist Right."

That guy had it coming it to him anyway!

(I'm picturing the "Life of Brian" where the handful of "Peoples Front of Judea" get on about the one fellow who is the totality of the "Judean Peoples Front"!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0BpfwazhUA

exiledonmainstreet said...



Inga, learn to read, you dumkopf. I said you were blaming LePen for the sins of her father. I didn't say one damn thing about your father or relatives.

Touchy, touchy...

Guildofcannonballs said...

Happy I can finally use "Leftists" writing about the French bastards, who, idiot-shits they are, are gonna encourage a bunch of Jews to move to America and in may cases amass wealth, while France becomes a Muslim country.

Inga's 411 (p.m.) nails it. Lol. They've nailed their own ass'.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Hitler, like other politicians we know of, did not rule with a majority. He won once or twice on about a third or slightly more of the vote and consolidated power from there - with attacks on conventional political institutions and checks on power. (Also like other politicians we know?) By all accounts, the Kristallnacht garnered widespread condemnation across whatever was left of Germany by then to freely express itself. Although condescension and ridicule of Jews was as popular in Germany as it had been up until and through the liberal revolutions of the 19th c. as it had been across Europe (and esp. where those liberal revolutions were resisted and countered with more traditional institutions?), this did not mean that most Germans were happy to support Hitler's program of mass depredations and genocide. It's a debate whether more could have been done but not a debate as to whether support for Hitler's regime of violence and murder resonated with large majorities of the public. AFAIK, it didn't.

Tyranny does not require popular consent to take hold. It wrests whatever power it can from existing institutions and then smashes over the rest of the rest of them as quickly as it can condemn them as too inconvenient to its "cause."

But it does get a huge boost from the complacent and those who make excuses for it, and esp. those who look the other way and happily label the tyrant as "the only hope."

Lessons to learn.

Drago said...

What do the Jews in France know that Inga does not?

Well, where to begin, eh? How about here?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/middleeast/france-israel-jews-immigration/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/12/rise-in-numbers-of-jews-leaving-europe-for-israel-is-not-an-exodus

Those silly Jews must be bigots to not want to live in a country that Inga claims is less bigoted than Trumps America!!

Hmmm, how many Jews are fleeing Trumps horribly bigoted US?

Oh boy, those types of facts are likely to give Inga about 1.68 nanoseconds of hesitation before posting another politically correct post.

exiledonmainstreet said...


Bigotry is not as acceptable to them as it is to Trumpist America.

5/7/17, 7:43 PM

How Inga must hate her own neighbors.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Inga doesn't know the French Jews are fleeing France - because Inga doesn't read.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marc Puckett said...

My recollection is that the Corsicans have elected a 'autonomist' majority to their regional assembly, and that they sing the Marian anthem Dio vi salve Regina in the legislative chamber on occasion: not too likely to be particularly friendly to the Bruxelles-and-immigration agenda of the EU.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Having neglected the previous comments, I'm sure there's a lot in them left out of what's actually at play in France.

While France has a conspicuoulsy high Muslim population, it also has an unusually high Jewish population. While more of the latter are emigrating than in previous years, I haven't heard that it's amounting to a depopulation of Jews.

Europe has a huge need of controlling its borders and common immigration policy. This doesn't mean that someone should favor the dissolution of the E.U., though. It's possible to desire reform over that policy as well as others without wanting to start tearing down the post-WWII framework for cooperation and national conflict resolution within Europe.

Uber-nationalists and the right believe that only a return to virulent nationalism and a dissolution of the E.U. will prevent its "Islamification," which they understandably find problematic. But that's just one extreme answer. While it got support in the early victories of Le Pen, hopefully that will serve as a wake-up call so that the current conventional moderate winner will do what needs to be done to reform the E.U. and their immigration issues without working to revert to the pre-WWII order in Europe.

Inga said...

Exiled you lutka ass, my neighbors as conservative as they are are not ignorant white nationalists like you are.

Drago said...

TTR: "He won once or twice on about a third or slightly more of the vote and consolidated power from there - with attacks on conventional political institutions and checks on power."

Hitler never won a Presidential election. He lost handily in both Presidential elections in 1932 to Hindenburg.

Where there is often confusion is that in the Parliamentary elections the Nazi's won the most significant MINORITY of seats leading to a coalition.

Having said that, I don't disagree with this in principle:

TTR: "Tyranny does not require popular consent to take hold. It wrests whatever power it can from existing institutions and then smashes over the rest of the rest of them as quickly as it can condemn them as too inconvenient to its "cause."

But it does get a huge boost from the complacent and those who make excuses for it, and esp. those who look the other way and happily label the tyrant as "the only hope.""

A vocal and determined minority within a nation can indeed take a commanding lead of the popular forces depending on many factors.

There are quite a few historians who have written about the low percentage of colonists who were the "rabble rousers" for freedom from Great Britain, followed by another relatively low percentage who supported them and actually fought, followed by another relatively low % who supporter the effort over all.

I've seen numbers as low as 5% who actually led and fought, another 10% who supported that 5% and only about another 20% who were philosophically aligned.

Lets say thats true, then you're looking at 35% total, which lines up with TTR is suggesting.

But in the American Revolution, who would argue that that 35% were leading us to the wrong outcome?

Funny bit here: perhaps the 30% or so of colonists who still supported Great Britain!

History and Human dynamics. Funny stuff.

Drago said...

Inga: "Exiled you lutka ass, my neighbors as conservative as they are are not ignorant white nationalists like you are"

Interesting factoid: limiting continued mass immigration of low-skilled labor would most help the individuals currently in the lowest income brackets where blacks and hispanics are statistically over-represented.

But that's all icky math stuff, so perhaps it's not for you?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Inga does not descend from a prominent Holocaust-denying (let alone supporting) politician. Marine Le Pen does. And she ran for office.

That the right finds Jews as convenient symbols against Islam (less so in Europe than here although that may change), doesn't mean that Le Pen's integrity can't be questioned. She seems to not be as kooky as her dad but she's the one who grew up at his knee and either took seriously his idiotic rantings (also done for the cause of nationalism then) or didn't.

Drago said...

I should have added this to my last post: Thank you Exiled for being so concerned with the ability of those in the lowest income brackets, over-represented statistically by blacks and hispanics to fend off the economic pressures brought about by left-wing unfettered illegal immigration.

Not exactly the sort of behavior one would expect of a "white supremacist". Like that Charles Murray fellow who, apparently, is so much of a white supremacist he believes the data shows that Asians have the highest IQ!

Gee, I guess they just aren't making white supremacists like they used to!

Inga said...

Marine LePen was not and is not a hero to France's Jewish population. The sins of her father are just under the surface of Marine, the bigotry is still there, hence her comment denying that the French were complicit in rounding up Jews to help the Nazi's efforts.

“France wasn’t responsible for the Vel d’Hiv,” she said. “If there was responsibility, it is with those who were in power at the time, it is not with France. France has been mistreated, in people’s minds, for years.”

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

History and Human dynamics. Funny stuff.

All true and those counterfactuals are interesting. It's been a while since I read Wood et al. and who knows how reliable the stats are but you're right that a general understanding has it at 1/3rd of American colonists supporting revolution, 1/3rd being loyal Tory monarchists opposing revolution, and the remaining third being of no opinion or persuadable.

Not too different from today.

I guess we can count ourselves lucky that the founders were pretty much all revolutionaries. And philosopher kings who authored the necessary documents arguing for independence of the sort outlined by the const. and bill of rights at that.

There is no equivalent to the Federalist Papers in whatever the f#ck the right or left want today. Sad.

Drago said...

TTR: "Inga does not descend from a prominent Holocaust-denying (let alone supporting) politician. Marine Le Pen does. And she ran for office."

This is, unfortunately, true regarding Le Pens father. No question.

As for Inga, we do not know the facts. In reality, becoming a lefty might just be the perfect cover!

TTR: "That the right finds Jews as convenient symbols against Islam (less so in Europe than here although that may change), doesn't mean that Le Pen's integrity can't be questioned."

Le Pens integrity may indeed be questioned. She is a politician after all.

But the Jews are not "convenient symbols against Islam".

They, with what is happening to them and their response to those actions, are REAL indicators of what is happening and must not be ignored.

Inga said...

Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
"Inga does not descend from a prominent Holocaust-denying (let alone supporting) politician. Marine Le Pen does. And she ran for office."

Thanks TTR. She doesn't have a clue as to what my father did during WW2.

Drago said...

TTR: "I guess we can count ourselves lucky that the founders were pretty much all revolutionaries. And philosopher kings who authored the necessary documents arguing for independence of the sort outlined by the const. and bill of rights at that.

There is no equivalent to the Federalist Papers in whatever the f#ck the right or left want today. Sad."

Well said.

Chuck said...

Coming this week; the Althouse post about how the polls were not wrong.

Also, this:

M Jordan said...
Stocks to jump tomorrow. Globalists happy.


Are some stock market rises going to be good (and naturally attributable to Trump), and others are going to be bad, because the markets and the whole system are run by and for the global elites...?

I suppose we could ask Trump, but that is never going to produce a sensible answer.

Marc Puckett said...

Angel-Dyne, I'm planning on making the pilgrimage from Le Puy, too, probably after retirement, in 2022 or 2023, God willing. Had planned on the Pentecost pilgrimage from Paris to Chartres this year but unfortunately that's not happening (for me, I mean).

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

They, with what is happening to them and their response to those actions, are REAL indicators of what is happening and must not be ignored.

I think it's right to see it that way. Recent French emigrants to Israel have a legitimate claim and rationale that's worth taking seriously. In the states we see their actions/reactions as natural and a decent thing.

Europe seems more conflicted. The fringe nuts that remain here are one thing, luckily a small thing. But Europe had that book "Submission?" that seemed to enviously explore the options Jews had of leaving a Europe ready to endure a fate worse than 7th c. Spain. They also have a lower number of Jews proportionately and the attendant nationalism issues mentioned before.

I guess the most appalling thing to me was YouTube comments where some, seemingly educated Limey, went on about how he thought that Jews and Muslims were equal threats to Europe, but that if he could, he'd start with the Jews. The idea that they're the primary force supplying a banking (and media) elite with the power to nefariously, deliberately weaken Europe through Muslim immigration is actually taken quite seriously there. Greater numbers of them actually believe that Jews, as part of a conspiracy controlled in "Zionist" Israel, have taken it upon themselves to destroy Europe (or "white peoples") and their nations and that they seek to do this in politics, the banking system and media.

While you seem to have decent numbers of European nationalists who vociferously speak out and push back against all that jazz, and are ardent admirers of Israel's freedom and willingness to defend itself, they are definitely up against a lot more spin and subterfuge in trying to swing the discussion back to something sane where Europe can simply address its problematic lack of an immigration policy, seriously reform the E.U., and allow the nations within it the dignity of letting their nationalists have their voice. It's just a problem of translating that through to the fucking dunderheaded E.U.

So as with in the U.S., the danger is that a center-left continues to drift from near disaster to near-disaster without doing what needs to be done about Europe, which is for all intents and purposes its equivalent to our own federal state.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Thanks, Drago.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
exiledonmainstreet said...

"Thanks TTR. She doesn't have a clue as to what my father did during WW2."

I repeat, asshole, I never said anything about your damned father.

He might have been a decent man, but he sadly sired a idiot daughter.


exiledonmainstreet said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
"Inga does not descend from a prominent Holocaust-denying (let alone supporting) politician. Marine Le Pen does. And she ran for office."

Given that Marine LePen has distanced herself from her father (and I agree he is a reprehensible character) and in fact is not on speaking terms with him, I don't hold him against her.

It's not like Marine has a close connection to her disreputable parent.

She's not Chelsea Clinton.

exiledonmainstreet said...

WTF is a "lutka?" Some ethnic slur? Well certainly I'm not surprised by Inga using one.

Drago wrote:

"Thank you Exiled for being so concerned with the ability of those in the lowest income brackets, over-represented statistically by blacks and hispanics to fend off the economic pressures brought about by left-wing unfettered illegal immigration."

Well thank you. No, Inga doesn't give a damn about their suffering. As long as she can parade around in her twat hat feeling superior she's good.



Inga said...

Exiled you lutka ass,

You can deny all you want, your message was loud and clear. Very few would sink to your level, I'm glad you showed yourself for what you are. And I'm pretty sure by now you did descend from a band of cretins.

bart simpsonson said...

WOW, you can really get some deep thoughts going there when you don't actually have to, you know, like, DO anything useful to earn your daily bread. My hypotheticals usually involve what I would do with bigtime lotto proceeds (in which I do not "invest" because, well I can think and reason. And actually work for my $$$$.

Inga said...

Exiled you hypocrite lutka, you've made reference to my heritage many times and used the slur "dummkopf" more than once. I'm simply giving you back what you handed out in the language of your heritage. How does it feel?

exiledonmainstreet said...

"I guess the most appalling thing to me was YouTube comments where some, seemingly educated Limey, went on about how he thought that Jews and Muslims were equal threats to Europe, but that if he could, he'd start with the Jews."

You have a point there, TTR. The problem is that anti-Semitism is a real problem in Europe among both nationalists and leftist globalists. The Jews face the same problem they did in early 20th century Europe - hated by the right for being aliens and radicals, hated by the left for being capitalists. (One does have to scratch one's head at Jews who are so eager to be diverse and tolerant that they loudly welcome Muslim emigration. Uh, people, have you been paying attention to Muslim rhetoric for the past 60 years? Or do you think it only applies to Israelis?)

I recognize that European nationalism carries baggage that I don't think American nationalism does. Richard Spenser is a fringe weirdo here; I think there are far more of them in Europe. Unfortunately, the other side is no friendlier to Jews, even if they hide behind the canard of "I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm anti-Zionist."

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Dummkopf" is an ethnic slur? It's just the German word (or the Austrian word, if you're Obama) for dumb.

Since this thread is about the French, would you feel better if I called you "stupide?"

Because just like a rose in any language still smells as sweet, so a dunderhead in any language is still a dunderhead.

Inga said...

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/cohen-le-pen-and-frances-jews

Unusual, that is, because Le Pen shows little sympathy for French Jews. She distorts the history of the Holocaust, keeps company with neo-Nazis and wants to limit the wearing of yarmulkes.

But Sunday was “National Day of Remembrance of the Victims and Heroes of Deportation,” which France has observed since 1954. Politics is politics.

Curiously, she would not be seen doing it – not by Jews, whom she might have invited, or anyone else. Le Pen went without the media. Her campaign tweeted pictures afterward.

That way, a demagogue appears “presidential” before the election on May 7. At the same time, she hopes her loyalists won’t think she’s going soft on the Jews.

That’s unlikely in Provence and beyond, a stronghold of the National Front. In the Second World War, this was the domain of the Vichy regime, which collaborated with the Nazis. France was the only country to do so in Western Europe.

Anti-Semitism, coded or cryptic, comes easily to Le Pen. You can’t blame her for her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, who called the gas chambers “a detail” of history. However, she did appoint Jean-François Jalkh – who disputed years ago that the Nazis used Zyklon B, the poisonous gas, on the Jews – as her deputy. An aggrieved Le Pen called the outcry following his recently-reported comments “a defamation,” before Jalkh resigned.

Le Pen pushed out her father and has tried to cleanse her party (even using, perversely, nativist, anti-Muslim rhetoric to court anxious Jews). But “detoxifying” the National Front is like separating baguette from brie in France. She can’t because this is how she and others think in a country with a history of anti-Semitism.

"Le Pen and her fellow-travellers are why the Jews are leaving France, the largest Jewish community in Europe. Some 40,000 (of an estimated 500,000) have decamped since 2006. They see no future here.

Beyond highly publicized terrorist attacks, smaller random acts of violence continue in the streets, like the hacksaw assault on two brothers in suburban Paris in February. Jews see things getting worse if Le Pen wins (not unlike rising intolerance in the United States, emboldened by the election of Donald Trump.)

Jews are appalled when Le Pen says that France was not responsible for rounding up 13,000 French Jews in Paris on July 16-17, 1942. French police – not the Nazis – pulled Jews from their homes and herded them into the filthy, reeking stadium known as Vélodrome d’Hiver. They were sent to Auschwitz."

exiledonmainstreet said...

And TTR, the best thing to do is to stay away from YouTube comments. Trying to find an intelligent comment there is like trying to find a diamond in a manure pile.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

"Oh, but that was not the French, Le Pen declares, because the good guys were in London with Charles de Gaulle. France has been “mistreated,” she says.

You don’t say those things – you don’t think those things – if you understand France during the war. Many French were Hitler’s willing accomplices. This does not include the brave “righteous gentiles” and “martyrs” of the French resistance, like the tens who were massacred on June 12 and 13, 1944, in the piney woods of Provence near Roque d’Antheron and Fenouillet, where two poignant memorials now stand.

Vichy was popular, which took France a generation to acknowledge. Now the National Front, against the facts, picks up the old falsehood.

No wonder Emmanuel Macron has made two visits in the last week to wartime memorials. One was in Paris to remember the murdered Jews, with words of remorse. The other was to the village of Oradour-sur-Glane, where the Nazis slaughtered 642 people.

Macron wanted to contrast his France – one of contrition and responsibility – with that of Le Pen, nationalist and revisionist. It’s not easy to come to terms with the past. The Germans do this best with monuments, museums and memorials. The Japanese struggle.

Suddenly, history is the new political battleground here. If French Jews are on the wrong side on Sunday, as they have been before, they won’t wait to see what happens. Expect an exodus."

Andrew Cohen, a journalist and professor, is author of Two Days in June: John F. Kennedy and the 48 Hours That Made History. Email: andrewzcohen@yahoo.ca

exiledonmainstreet said...

Oh, sure Inga, it's LePen followers who are doing this:

"Last month's terror attack at a Kosher supermarket in Paris called attention to rising anti-Semitism in France. This week, attackers slashed three soldiers guarding a Jewish community center in Nice. French authorities believe a small number of radicalized young men from North Africa are responsible for a disproportionate share of these anti-Semitic incidents in France. Special correspondent Martin Himel reports"

MARTIN HIMEL: This is Garges-Lès-Gonesse, a partisan suburb, where the synagogue Shaare Rahamim was built more than 60 years ago. It’s now smack in the middle of what has become a mostly Muslim immigrant community. Jews here say they have been regularly subjected to anti-Semitic attacks.

ALAIN BEN SIMON: It’s a real bunker, but this is the only way to reassure the congregants. Otherwise we’d have to move out of the synagogue.

MARTIN HIMEL: This apartment block is really on the frontline of a conflict between this immigrant community and the Jews that worship in the synagogue to my right. It’s from this apartment block that a Molotov cocktail has been thrown at the Synagogue, rocks have been thrown at the Synagogue, even a bullet has been fired from this direction.

And that's a report from your beloved PBS:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/anti-semitic-attacks-french-jews-doubled-year/

Gee, Jews are fleeing! It must be those gosh-darned LePen supporters they're afraid of!

Inga said...

"Lutka" is the Serbian word for "dummy", dummy.

Drago said...

Inga: "Unusual, that is, because Le Pen shows little sympathy for French Jews. She distorts the history of the Holocaust, keeps company with neo-Nazis and wants to limit the wearing of yarmulkes."

Uh, Muslims are gunning Jews down, throwing them out of windows and harrassing them on a daily basis.

But Le Pens father is a Holocaust denier!

Go ahead Inga. Keep pretending the muslims aren't driving the Jews out of France.

And never forget that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was great pal and admirer of Hitler.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-mufti-and-the-f-uuml-hrer

And now Inga and her pals can't bring enough of those guys into Western Europe. Inga and her pals have become the dream partners for Le Pens father.

Inga said...

"For the first time ever, Muslim, Protestant and Jewish leaders jointly endorsed a presidential candidate on Thursday, stating that they “openly are calling for a vote in favor of Emmanuel Macron.”

The endorsement was signed by Anouar Kbibech, the head of France’s CFCM Muslim umbrella group, along with Chief Rabbi Haim Korsia and Pastor François Clavairoly, president of the Protestant Federation of France.

But the Catholic Church chose not to join them, with only a few Catholic church officials delivering personal messages against Le Pen instead.

Louis-Marie Coudray, who’s in charge of the Catholic Church’s relations with Jews, defended his community’s stance. “First of all, the church cannot tell people who to vote for. That’s what it did in the 20th century – and we were criticized for that at the time,” he said."

exiledonmainstreet said...

The attack on the kosher market Friday came during a manhunt for suspects in the killing of 12 at the satirical French magazine Charlie Hebdo two days earlier. Four died in the market, making it the deadliest attack on French Jews in nearly three years. In March 2012, a teacher and three students were gunned down at a Jewish school in Toulouse.

Oh, Inga, it must have been those dastardly LePen supporters!

Nah. It was your favorite pets, the Muslims. But hey, you're not at risk personally. What do you care of other people's suffering?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/13/world/french-jews/index.html

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

People who call themselves anti-Zionists (an idea/term that was unfortunately mainstreamed in Europe after the Arab nationalists sold them the idea) just have to be honest and admit that they think Jews should be denied nationalism, a nation, territory, and therefore sovereignty, self-defense and a national economy. Things that normal nations have. It's only a consistent position to hold if you somehow think that no nation should be sovereign, which these kooks obviously don't.

Richard Spenser represents marginalized ideas in the States, and probably also in Europe. Some Europeans might want their nations back in a way that doesn't jibe well with the E.U., but to base their identities on skin color - let alone a fictive supracontinental union of proper skin complexion - is probably something too ridiculous even for them.

One does have to scratch one's head at Jews who are so eager to be diverse and tolerant that they loudly welcome Muslim emigration. Uh, people, have you been paying attention to Muslim rhetoric for the past 60 years?

Such people probably idealize 12th c. Spain, which is of course a concept not possible in the 21st century.

The only one I know who does it obnoxiously and conspicuously enough to warrant backlash is some goofball running an organization she calls "Paideia". But of course the neo-Nazis imagine her as a proxy for all Jews. While xenophobia runs its own risks, the risks of Islamicizing significant parts of the west are greater, and worth preventing.

But that should be done quietly, courteously, and without rousing a whole bunch of rabble in a self-defeating immolation of unconstitutional and demagogic rhetoric. I'm sure that whatever Trump ran on or whatever his counterparts in Europe want to do could have more effectively gotten the job done if they hadn't made it a centerpiece of their campaigns. But of course, that would have defeated the purpose.

And now we're just left with bad blood that may or may not further recruit more home-grown jihadis here and/or abroad. Their battle is internecine and the more we stay out of it - aside from supporting civic institutions dedicated to our values, the more we empower the people among them who need (and who we need) to win that fight.

Drago said...

Inga: "Many French were Hitler’s willing accomplices."

And yet, after many decades the Jews of France did not feel the need to emigrate.

But with the explosion in muslim immigration and radicalization, the Jews are fleeing.

Inga's response? Defend the muslims who are driving out the Jews and attack Le Pens father who, whatever else he was, was not viewed by the French Jews as a significant enough threat to flee.

Go ahead Inga, address the Jewish flight occurring NOW due to muslim terrorism. But you won't. That would take intellectual and moral courage.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

And TTR, the best thing to do is to stay away from YouTube comments. Trying to find an intelligent comment there is like trying to find a diamond in a manure pile.

Ha ha. True.

But diamonds found in such conditions are all the more captivating!

Inga said...

"(JTA) — Russian Chief Rabbi Berel Lazar called on French Jews to leave their country if the far right politician Marine Le Pen is elected president next month.

Lazar, a Chabad rabbi who was born in Italy and has lived in Russia for 25 years, made the remark on Friday while attending a conference on Jewish learning near Moscow organized by the Limmud FSU asssociation.

“If Marine Le Pen is elected president of France, the Jews must leave,” Lazar said, according to a transcription of his address at the conference provided by Limmud FSU. Lazar was a keynote speaker of the event, which drew 2,500 participants — a record attendance since Limmud FSU began holding conferences across the former Soviet Union.

Le Pen recently called for banning the wearing of the kippah in public and for making it illegal for French nationals to also have an Israeli passport — steps she said were necessary because of the principle of equality in order to facilitate similar limitations on Muslims.

Le Pen has said radical Islam is a “threat on French culture” and has called on Jews to make certain “sacrifices” in order to fight jihadism. She has softened the rhetoric of her party after taking over from her father in 2011 and has kicked out of the party dozens of members over anti-Semitic rhetoric — including her father.

Read more: http://forward.com/fast-forward/369752/russian-chief-rabbi-france-s-jews-should-leave-if-le-pen-wins-elections/

exiledonmainstreet said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

Why are you siding with radical Islam, Inga?

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"But diamonds found in such conditions are all the more captivating!"


STOP CONS! Stop!

Ritmo's tricking you.

Don't start digging in shit piles looking for diamonds.




You're welcome.

Nyamujal said...

I came here for the "Trumpkins scold the French for making the wrong choice" hot takes and I wasn't disappointed.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Let's all stop with the anti-Serbian, anti-German, anti-whatever slurs. I've not been innocent in giving someone on this thread a hard time about the Church, but they can hold their own and I'm not out to take them out either. (Just question certain priorities).

We're all Americans here and just be glad we're not in Europe. Even in Europe there are people wise enough to prefer to follow some more Americanized example in dealing with all that shit, so let's not devolve into insipid heritage/family insult games that even those Krauts and Frogs and Limeys and whoever else (any slur I've left out?) are wise enough to generally avoid. ;-)

exiledonmainstreet said...

But I know I'm not dumb, Inga.

Being called dumb by a notable dolt means nothing to me.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Exile,

The shorter version is better. Good call do delete the first attempt.

Drago said...

TTR: "People who call themselves anti-Zionists (an idea/term that was unfortunately mainstreamed in Europe after the Arab nationalists sold them the idea) just have to be honest and admit that they think Jews should be denied nationalism, a nation, territory, and therefore sovereignty, self-defense and a national economy. Things that normal nations have. It's only a consistent position to hold if you somehow think that no nation should be sovereign, which these kooks obviously don't."

Agreed.

TTR: "Richard Spenser represents marginalized ideas in the States, and probably also in Europe. Some Europeans might want their nations back in a way that doesn't jibe well with the E.U., but to base their identities on skin color - let alone a fictive supracontinental union of proper skin complexion - is probably something too ridiculous even for them."

I must say, Richard Spenser has what, a handful of followers? I realize that all political factions seek to put a face/name to movements to make them more "real" or accessible (and potentially politically useful), but the idea that this dude Spenser even rises to a blip on the screen is ridiculous.

TTR says that Spenser is marginalized. I think that's clearly correct because if it weren't, where is this army of Spenser-ites?

Which is why the dems, needing this boogie-man for political reasons, blow this dude up to gigantic proportions and "assign" to him a following of millions of Americans who wouldn't even recognize the name.

Remember Dylan Roof? Who can forget, right? The media brings him up just about everyday. One of the most illuminating statements that young crazy made was that there he was, in South Carolina, and he couldn't find any KKK or skinhead guys to link up with.

Which is probably an indicator as to why the number of racial hate crime hoaxes continue to grow. There just isn't enough actual racism here in the US.

exiledonmainstreet said...

" let's not devolve into insipid heritage/family insult games that even those Krauts and Frogs and Limeys and whoever else (any slur I've left out?) are wise enough to generally avoid. ;-)"

Can't we rip on the Micks at least a little? I'm pissed off at my BIL right now.

Inga said...

I'm not in the least bit anti Serbian TTR. I'm giving her a dose of her own medicine.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Can't we rip on the Micks at least a little?

You can always make fun of some Celtic Irish or Scot. As long as you're prepared for a bloodied face, no matter how far away from the pub you are when the remark is made.

But they usually make me laugh too much to say anything angry anyway. It's easier for me to laugh than to dance a jig. Let alone one where you keep your legs straight when not bringing your knees up to 90 degree angles.

Which is something I've never understood.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

"There just isn't enough actual racism here in the US."

Sure, but as far as interestingness re hoaxes goes, has any lib been as good as Ashely Todd.

How could anything top the backwards letters carved on a backwards mind?

Inga said...

Hi Nyamujal! Glad to see you stopped by. You're always the voice of reason.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Since I'm not a Serb, it's a mystery to me why being called a Serbian epithet would be considered a devastating comeback.

And, as TTR says, we're all Americans here anyway.

Inga, you'll have to think harder to give me a taste of my own medicine. You've been lobbing children's aspirin at me.

Drago said...

3rdgrader: "Sure, but as far as interestingness re hoaxes goes, has any lib been as good as Ashely Todd."

Well, the fact that I had to look that one up because it was 9 years ago tells you something.

There have been so many fake hate crimes going the other way (and just so happens the original charges lined up nicely with dem/left talking points..unexpectedly) that it would take too long to list!

Most of the exposures don't get the press of the original charges (#FakeNews!) so here is a site that is keeping a simple compilation. Take special note of all the fakes in just the last 6 months or so.

Drago said...

Inga: "Hi Nyamujal! Glad to see you stopped by. You're always the voice of reason."

LOL

Drago said...

exiled: "You've been lobbing children's aspirin at me."

On the plus side, I always liked the orange flavoring.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I must say, Richard Spenser has what, a handful of followers?

Who knows. Probably not many, but I think what got the attention of people/media I'd heard was how brazen and open he became about spouting/spewing his ideas and touting Trump as a vehicle for him. I still don't think that's untrue. Even if the KKK and he are marginalized, it didn't go without notice that they thought they finally had a champion in the WH.

At first I told such people, fine. Better it's out in the open than not. And then I had a chance to review that video where he met in Washington going "Hail, Trump!" etc.

That's when I stopped worrying that catching a smack in the face was a bridge too far him for him to endure. As nice and well-spoken and genteel (and hopefully naive) and well dressed (if you like vests) a crypto-Nazi as he is, at some point his own comfort with what he was saying started to make my own skin crawl.

As for Bannon - his own worst enemy is his alcoholism and pugnacity. Picking fights with a boss in love with his own son-in-law is just plain dumb. So I don't get on him for flirting with whatever fringe on the right he publishes for anymore. Just like I wouldn't get on him about something as silly as ethnicity. The only caricature of him that's worth making is that he basically resembles a giant walking premature liver spot.

Trump's liver spot. He takes the blemishes so that his oh so beautiful boss doesn't have to sport them.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I believe this is the list Drago was referring to:

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

Inga said...

I recall when there were people here who were proudly declaring themselves Alt Right. They've been pretty quiet since the Alt Right threw Trump under the bus.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

BTW, Althouse, who's so fussy re NYT/Wapo, may need to look into the hilariously glass is half full POV that has replaced the line she included in her post.

Paraphrase: Sure, the gal only got 33.9% [newest data], but her pops got less than that!

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Which is probably an indicator as to why the number of racial hate crime hoaxes continue to grow.

Talk about my skin crawling. As uncomfortable as Richard Spenser's sense of his own momentum might have been, it paled in comparison to hearing that those overturned Jewish cemetery gravestones were perpetrated by some Israeli asshole.

That alone should have provoked a minor (concealed, of course) diplomatic uproar. No entry here for 60 days. Or something. Talk about defeating the whole purpose of disliking Nazis in the first place. Blaming the Reichstag burning as a Jewish false flag was what started the Kristallnacht in the first place. That fucker twat should have been hanged by his toenails.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Drago,

I'm not making a point re the importance of that old story. My point is that its cray cray rating is hard to top.

It's a classic.

Drago said...

Inga: "I recall when there were people here who were proudly declaring themselves Alt Right. They've been pretty quiet since the Alt Right threw Trump under the bus."

LOL

"...people here..." "...declaring themselves..." "They've been..."

So much specificity! It's totally not like you are full of crap or anything!

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

BTW, Ashley and exile's list and the hoaxes from all sides, are statistically only a very small part of actual crime in the States.

So, if we're gonna jabber about such, it makes sense to focus on the most interesting. IMHO, Ashley gots to be in that conversation.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Sure, but as far as interestingness re hoaxes goes, has any lib been as good as Ashely Todd."

Well, PB, that one was surely ridiculous, but I think you libs have indeed topped it:

"Church organist who reported vandalism was actually the one who did it / George Nathaniel Stang confessed to local police that he spray painted a swastika, the words "Heil Trump" & a homophobic slur on the church where he worked. His intention was to "mobilize a movement"

"Jewish man arrested after spray painting swastikas on his own home in Upstate NY / Andrew King, a Jewish man, spray painted three swastikas on his house & reported the incident to the police. The police later determined that he fabricated the crime & charged him with false reporting."

"Ann Arbor woman pleads guilty to making up hate crime / Halley Bass pleaded guilty to fabricating an assault in which she claimed a white man scratched her face because she wore a "solidarity pin". In fact, the wound was self-inflicted in a literature class.
2017-03-07"

You gotta wonder about someone who inflicts a wound on themselves during a literature class. OTOH, I sometimes wanted to slash my wrists when I read 5 pages of Faulkner and realized I was only halfway through one sentence...but I somehow don't think that's what happened here.

Drago said...

3rdGrader: "Drago, I'm not making a point re the importance of that old story. My point is that its cray cray rating is hard to top."

I'm afraid that one doesn't even register in the same galaxy as Tawana Brawley. And one of Tawana's main benefactors and pushers of BS is a person in Outstanding Standing on the left, frequent visitor to the White House and given a show on MSNBC!!! None other than the beloved tax cheat and inciter of riots Al Sharpton!

"On November 28, 1987, Tawana Brawley, who had been missing for four days from her home in Wappingers Falls, New York, was found seemingly unconscious and unresponsive, lying in a garbage bag several feet from an apartment where she had once lived. Her clothing was torn and burned, her body smeared with feces. She was taken to the emergency room, where the words "KKK", "nigger", and "bitch" were discovered written on her torso with a black substance described as charcoal."

Inga said...

Oh how quickly you folks distanced yourself from the Alt Right when they went after your man Trump. He said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his followers would still ove him.

Oh hey, rumor has it that here are two sealed indictments ready to go in the Trump and Associates Russia case. Just rumor, don't worry.

Drago said...

TTR: "Talk about my skin crawling. As uncomfortable as Richard Spenser's sense of his own momentum might have been, it paled in comparison to hearing that those overturned Jewish cemetery gravestones were perpetrated by some Israeli asshole."

I have to admit, that the perpetrator was an Israeli sort of shocked me as well. I fully expected that it would be a leftist or SJW of some stripe, but I never dreamed that an Israeli would be the culprit given that the entire non-muslim population of Israel is on the "front lines" of murderous islamic terror against Jewish men, women and children. Or, as Inga would put it, a 'not very good rainy day sort of thing'.

Inga has such a fun-spirited way with ignoring and/or minimizing islamic murder.

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Exile,

none of those are Ashley worthy.

But, how does a person self-inflict as part of a literature class? That's definitely worth looking into.

At least the self-pain inflicted on Chelsea's theoretical literary interlocutors (re another thread) would have only been mental.

Drago said...

Inga: "Oh how quickly you folks distanced yourself from the Alt Right when they went after your man Trump."

Alt-right, neo-cons, whatever.

Anything to not talk about muslim terror driving Jews from Europe. Your schtick is quite clear to anyone reading this blog.

Drago said...

3rdgrader: "But, how does a person self-inflict as part of a literature class?"

I think 3 days of supposed torture, rape, sodomization, writing KKK on you, smearing you with feces, and having major NYC dem players come to your aid as you assert that the perpetrators were 4 (4!) NYC officials (including an ADA!) certainly compares.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"Oh hey, rumor has it that here are two sealed indictments ready to go in the Trump and Associates Russia case. Just rumor, don't worry."

We're not worried. It's entertaining to see you bitterly cling to your silly Russian fantasies, while being utterly unconcerned about Hill's dealings with the Russians and Podesta's connections to Uranium One.

chickelit said...

Inga wrote: Oh hey, rumor has it that here are two sealed indictments ready to go in the Trump and Associates Russia case. Just rumor, don't worry.

Anything about secret routers?

3rdGradePB_GoodPerson said...

Drago,

Not sure how Rock-Paper-Scissors-Knife-Charcoal works in your hood, but for us Ashley's knife beats charcoal.

BTW did Brawley write not-backwards on herself?



Drago said...

Inga: "Oh hey, rumor has it that here are two sealed indictments ready to go in the Trump and Associates Russia case. Just rumor, don't worry"

Uh huh.

And Donald Trump had prostitutes urinate on a bed in Moscow! Totes True!

Inga said...

Drago,

Were the Jews who joined with Muslims and Protestants in endorsing Macron not aware of what they were doing? Too bad they didn't have you to guide them in your infinite wisdom about all things anti Muslim.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I had completely forgotten about Tawana Brawley, the mother of all hate crime hoaxes, but yeah, you have to admit PB that that one beats Ashley by miles.

Drago said...

3rdgrader: "Not sure how Rock-Paper-Scissors-Knife-Charcoal works in your hood, but for us Ashley's knife beats charcoal."

So, you missed the rape and sodomy part eh?

Well, I'm not surprised.

So, to summarize 3rdgrader, some crazy gal did something 9 years ago so the dozens and dozens of recent high-profile hoaxes mean nothing and need not be discussed.

Especially now that they've all been exposed as hoaxes. That certainly won't help the narrative, will it?

Not to worry. The same media that hyped the allegations, and the tying of those fictitious events to Trump, are ignoring the hoax exposures are expressly downplaying them.

So you've got that going for you.

Drago said...

Inga: "Drago, Were the Jews who joined with Muslims and Protestants in endorsing Macron not aware of what they were doing?"

Thats right Inga. There is no problem with muslims attacking/murdering Jews in France.

Nothing to see here.

And that Jewish doctor deserved to be thrown from that 6th story window, apparently.

Charlie Hebdo? What's that?

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

I guess it could have been an Israeli Muslim who did it?

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