May 8, 2017

"I really do believe that these populists are changing the character of the politics just by being there, so even mainstream candidates are having to respond to their agenda."

"You see fewer people talking about free trade. You see countries talking about industrial policy and protectionism. It's hard to defend immigrants almost any place in the world today.... The rise of nativism is having an impact on the politics, even if the candidates aren't winning."

Said Condoleezza Rice.

ADDED: Condi needs somebody to read her book.

47 comments:

sykes.1 said...

So, sanity is returning to politics. Good.

Tarrou said...

In a democratic society, it's a pretty hard sell to tell your citizens that they need to accept less employment, lower wages, higher crime, terrorism and submit to the insane genocidal decrees of the faculty lounge, because racism, you racist Nazis. The fact that they managed it at all speaks to the incredible level of social pressure. But as the sting of the "racist" epithet is diluted by overuse, the people begin to notice that perhaps these things are not in their best interest. And then they vote to change them.

Le Pen can lose. The movement will not. Nigel Farage spent twenty years as the most hated man in Britain, and never attained high office or won a major election. But Britain is leaving the EU. There is only so far you can denigrate, humiliate and violate a people before they stand up for themselves. Obviously, the French will take a lot more of this than other countries.

MikeR said...

Whoa. Someone sensible.

Virtually Unknown said...

I believe she is running based on her complete and enthusiastic non denial of interest in politics when asked in a Golf Channel interview she gave with Feherty.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

It seems to me that the normal process of politics has been short circuited.

In the past a good idea or an idea responsive to a need would be picked up by one of the two major parties. That process appeased people.

But now we have the Uniparty freezing out very reasonable positions -- free but fair trade, secure borders, and controlled immigration.

So we are having a backlash. Hopefully one of the major parties will give voice to these concerns and the system will right itself.

If not then many people will question the legitimacy of the system and that is very dangerous.

Xmas said...

I'm still reading small bits of "Shattered" each night before bed. It's giving me the most pleasant sleep.

Angel-Dyne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Angel-Dyne said...

It should be obvious to any thinking person that our political and economic dogmas, mostly a response to and a creation of the post-WWII world, need a bit of re-examination and re-tooling as time goes on. A prudent politics would have been responding to the real, and increasingly dangerous, strains in this system. Instead, we've had several decades of leaders substituting moralistic haranguing and panglossian propaganda for pragmatic restraint and reconsideration. The irony here is the rigidity and dogmatism of the alleged "parties of the future" in response to events. No flexibility, no new ideas, no ability to reconsider their own assumptions, none. Yes, babbling about "nativists" is really addressing the problems, dudes.

Bitching about their opponents wanting "to live in the past", while mentally and emotionally mired in 1968. I guess "fighting the last war" is a cliché for a reason.

traditionalguy said...

Morning Joe has a theme from Little Napoleon's easy win. Scarborough says populism never wins if Mild and Sweet Moderates run a young candidate who carefully says nothing that sounds old fashioned. So it's all about blank slate smiling young people. And Russian e-mail journalism has no effect.

Funny he never connected his thoughts to HildaBeast.

But they were very excited about Globalism erasing borders again, as if that is a new thought.

David Begley said...

Is Condi talking about legal or illegal immigrants? Big difference.

exiledonmainstreet said...

"But now we have the Uniparty freezing out very reasonable positions -- free but fair trade, secure borders, and controlled immigration."

Yes. And if no place is made for the reasonable concerns of ordinary people eventually they will turn to anybody who is talking about those concerns.

Unfortunately, I think the smug elites will take the wrong message from yesterday's vote and will continue to ignore those issues.

Virtually Unknown said...

Yes. And if no place is made for the reasonable concerns of ordinary people eventually they will turn to anybody who is talking about those concerns

They just consider it the last flailing arms of the victim as the pillow over his face does its work.

Hagar said...

The article says more about Susan Page than Condi.

MayBee said...

In a democratic society, it's a pretty hard sell to tell your citizens that they need to accept less employment, lower wages, higher crime, terrorism and submit to the insane genocidal decrees of the faculty lounge, because racism, you racist Nazis.

Truth.

JRoberts said...

traditionalguy said...
"So it's all about blank slate smiling young people."

Case in point: Jon Ossoff in Georgia. It's been impossible to pin him down on ANY issue.

Angel-Dyne said...

Tarrou: There is only so far you can denigrate, humiliate and violate a people before they stand up for themselves. Obviously, the French will take a lot more of this than other countries.

Why do you think the French are any more docile than, say, the Germans, or the Scandinavians? (Or the Irish, or the Spanish?)

Or us, for that matter? We've been putting up with a lot of shit for quite a while now. Trump's election (or Brexit) may mark a real inflection point, but it's early days yet.

MayBee said...

What I see the left doing right now, rather than try to figure out how to address any concerns, is to continue to put their hands over their ears and scream louder.

The number of friends I have on Facebook talking about Republicans wanting to eliminate the healthcare of anyone who has ever had a medical condition is astounding. There isn't single one talking about the people trapped in the problems created by Obamacare. They don't care. They don't really care about real people, they just want to have their dramatic outrage.

I'm certainly not going to go on their ranting Facebook posts and tell them my situation, or correct their "facts". So they think they are right, and they repost each others rants. It's this horrible spiral.

Owen said...

Tarrou: what you said. I speculate that the failure of the political establishment is due to gridlock among vested interests plus a shift in the currency from a basket of goods that emphasized substantive issues like national security and economic growth, to one that emphasized social justice and postmodern virtue-signaling. Put simply, the system has become dominated by place-holders intimidated by identity-political activists. That may be changing. An awful lot of people in the "middle" are tired of being treated like chumps.

IMHO.

Owen said...

MayBee: "...horrible spiral." It does seem to be "epistemic closure." Agree, no point in trying to argue with it. The collateral damage is enormous, because once people go into their bunkers on *one* issue, they won't engage on many others, or even any. And it gets terribly and needlessly personal. I and several of my dear friends are mourning the loss of a mutual friend, who is still living but has cut us all dead, because we failed to answer his question, "Did you vote for Clinton?" Simply failed to answer it. He wanted an oath of allegiance to an idea, a name, a list of (horrible) attributes, an abstraction that somehow is bound into his sense of himself. Madness.

sinz52 said...

Bill of TX said: "free but fair trade"

There is no such thing as "fair trade." It's a buzzword without a definition.

How do you know when trade is "fair"? What has to happen for the trade to be "fair"?

Rusty said...

What has to happen for the trade to be "fair"?

Both partys leave the table with what they want.
It's called a market.

Robert Cook said...

"The number of friends I have on Facebook talking about Republicans wanting to eliminate the healthcare of anyone who has ever had a medical condition is astounding. There isn't single one talking about the people trapped in the problems created by Obamacare. They don't care. They don't really care about real people, they just want to have their dramatic outrage.

"I'm certainly not going to go on their ranting Facebook posts and tell them my situation, or correct their 'facts.' So they think they are right, and they repost each others rants. It's this horrible spiral."


Well...how can the people you complain of "ranting" on Facebook to vent their "dramatic outrage" know what the "problems created by Obamacare" are or how these problems have "trapped people" if you don't tell them about your situation?

Isn't it normal in a debate to provide information to support one's own argument and to try to convince the other party of the error in their argument?

I'm curious myself: how are people "trapped in the problems created by Obamacare?" I have no clue what you're talking about.

(I'm not a partisan for Obamneycare, as I see single payer as the only rational solution to our abysmal healthcare situation, but it at least has enabled some people who could not obtain health insurance previously to get some now. How do we know what the Republican plan will do? Apparently, even those who voted for it don't know, as most of them didn't even read the bill.)

The Cracker Emcee said...

" How do we know what the Republican plan will do? Apparently, even those who voted for it don't know, as most of them didn't even read the bill."

Cookie,
Please provide a complete list of Democrat politicians who read the ACA bill before voting for it.
Your comment did give me the first laugh of my morning, though, for which I thank you.

MayBee said...

Well...how can the people you complain of "ranting" on Facebook to vent their "dramatic outrage" know what the "problems created by Obamacare" are or how these problems have "trapped people" if you don't tell them about your situation?

They can read. They know how to use the internet to read about issues.

Isn't it normal in a debate to provide information to support one's own argument and to try to convince the other party of the error in their argument?

In a debate, yes. But they aren't looking for a debate. And I'm not looking for a loss in friendship.

I'm curious myself: how are people "trapped in the problems created by Obamacare?" I have no clue what you're talking about.

There are the people in hundreds of counties across the US who have zero or one health care provider available to them on the exchanges.
The premiums are expensive, and the deductibles are crazy. Last year, our first year in business for ourselves, with no guaranteed income, we paid $770/month for insurance and had a $10,000 deductible. We almost lost coverage all together because I didn't know there was a 60-day window to buy insurance after a life event to get a new policy. Had I missed the window, I would have been uninsured for the next 8 months. This is by design in the program to keep sick people from buying insurance only when they need it. But it's a trap for healthy people who decide mid-year to insure themselves.

For a time last year, my husband and I lived in separate states. Which meant we were paying $770/month and one of us had only emergency medical care available. Our kids live in yet another state, so we can't take advantage of the provision for them to stay on our insurance. Which means their plans - while affordable- are about $250 a month with each of them having about at $7000 deductible. What 24 year old had $7000 to pay toward medical care, after paying $250/month?

So yeah, Obama care enabled some people to get healthcare, and hurt other people. Younger, healthier people make the rational decision not to pay premiums. People who don't know about the 60 day window or whose financial circumstances change mid year get cut off from buying policies. It's expensive and deductibles are too high.

It says a lot that you don't know what I'm talking about. You are an informed person, so you not knowing is just further evidence that informational sources don't want to discuss the problems in Obamacare. It can't sustain itself right now.

Sebastian said...

"I believe she is running based on her complete and enthusiastic non denial" It's gonna be Oprah/Cory vs. Condi/Nikki (or Nikki/Condi). You read it here first.

Hagar said...

What has to happen for the trade to be "fair"?

When people (or companies) trade with each other without governmennt interference.
(Which ain't gonna happen, nohow!)

MayBee said...

I'm not a partisan for Obamneycare, as I see single payer as the only rational solution to our abysmal healthcare situation

I've lived in countries with single payer, and its no panacea. I'm not sure the same government that gives it's Emily's List donors the wish-list item of free birth control for women has the strength to keep single payer costs under control in any feasible way.
And I'm not sure Americans are up for the Liverpool Pathway. I'm not sure an electorate which is constantly swayed by sob stories from the media is going to be able to live with the kind of rules the UK has about who gets treatment and who doesn't.

And when I lived in the UK, the television was still full of health insurance and cancer insurance ads, apparently for wealthier people to get better care than NHS delivered.

damikesc said...

I like Rice. A lot.

What she needs to realize, as do the rest of the elites, is their promise of all of the benefits of globalization are not being seen by many. Some are doing amazingly well but quite a few are not.

Until they realize that theories are always trumped by reality, they will always wonder what is going on.

Their desire to change everything except the one thing they care about deeply is duly noted.

MayBee said...

Damikesc at 9:01-- well said.

n.n said...

Actually, the problem is [class] diversity, including anti-nativism, that, among other things, forced refugee crises through social justice adventurism for political progress (e.g. demographic replacement), and, apparently, to provoke a reaction, sometimes for money, sometimes for power, and other times for narcissistic indulgence.

David Begley said...

Does Condi defend MS-13? MS-13 is composed entirely of immigrants.

David Begley said...

Robert Cook:

Lifelong (93) Republican and billionaire Charlie Munger favors single payer.

Michael K said...

And when I lived in the UK, the television was still full of health insurance and cancer insurance ads, apparently for wealthier people to get better care than NHS delivered.

The last time I checked, which was a couple of years ago, 25% of the residents of southeast England, the only area with a positive GDP, had private insurance,

Young English doctors are leaving Britain in droves and heading for the Anglosphere countries. They are being replaced by third worlders.

AJ Lynch said...

Repubs will criticize Kushner's sister for hawking citizenship papers at $500K a crack in China. I will condemn it and say Jared should be fired if he knew what his sister was up to.

Dems will never ever condemn the actions of a fellow Dem because it is always about power to them and not about what one believes is the right thing to do.

rcocean said...

The usual bullshit. If you want people to obey the immigration laws and maybe want anything less than a million legal immigrants A YEAR, you're a "nativist".

Rice/Bush/Cheney/et al - said nothing during Obama, they should continue to shut up. I don't care what they say.

rcocean said...

Being against bad trade deals isn't being against Free Trade.

Bush/Rice were "free trade" fanatics who negotiated bad deals that Trump is trying to fix. All they can do is screech "protectionist" in response.

Craig Howard said...

Both partys leave the table with what they want.
It's called a market.


But that's true of any market exchange, isn't it?

This talk of "fair" trade adds another dimension -- a political one.

mockturtle said...

She's right. The nativists are restless.

Tarrou said...

@Angel-Dyne

Why do I have the opinions I have of France? History. And I don't think they are worse than Germany, but I do think they will be worse than the Scandi countries. And much, much worse than middle and eastern european countries. A nation is a large ingroup. Unless you can convince everyone in that group that the group exists for the benefit of that group, not for the benefit of the people trying to kill you, the group will fail.

Modern leftism is cultural, civilizational and literal genocide. Macron's terrorism policy is quite literally "get used to it". No prevention, nothing other than that the French submit to violent barbarian theocrats so they can be murdered in their hundreds without even a hint of resistance. That is France. Those hundreds will grow. Here in the US, at least we shoot back.

Angel-Dyne said...

Tarrou: Why do I have the opinions I have of France? History. And I don't think they are worse than Germany, but I do think they will be worse than the Scandi countries.

Maybe Denmark. Maybe Norway. Sweden? I'm not seeing it.

And much, much worse than middle and eastern european countries.

Agreed. For now, anyway.

A nation is a large ingroup. Unless you can convince everyone in that group that the group exists for the benefit of that group...

You're preaching to the choir here, Tarrou.

Modern leftism is cultural, civilizational and literal genocide. Macron's terrorism policy is quite literally "get used to it".

Yes, but I'm still not seeing why you think this is uniquely French. By the way, we Americans, via our various diplomatic organizations, have promoted and financed, and continue to promote and finance, a great deal of the multi-culti and open borders propaganda pushed on Europeans. Our government (if not 100% of "us"), is right on board with this "civilizational genocide".

No prevention, nothing other than that the French submit to violent barbarian theocrats so they can be murdered in their hundreds without even a hint of resistance. That is France. Those hundreds will grow. Here in the US, at least we shoot back.

Yeah, and our response to being murdered in the thousands (and to smaller scale rampages since then) was to ramp up Muslim immigration and refugee resettlement, and for our government and every other institution in this country to to crank the "diversity" and "Islamophobia" propaganda up to 11.

The bugger about "civilizational genocide" is that very little of it is about fighting the bad guys (in this case "Islamists") in the streets. A lot more of it is about believing your own bullshit about "who we are", and putting that bullshit ahead of common sense understanding of where cultures come from and how they work. Being legally and physically able to shoot the occasional jihadi on a rampage ain't gonna protect us from our own delusions.

mockturtle said...

A lot more of it is about believing your own bullshit about "who we are", and putting that bullshit ahead of common sense understanding of where cultures come from and how they work. Being legally and physically able to shoot the occasional jihadi on a rampage ain't gonna protect us from our own delusions.

Very well said, Angel-Dyne.

Trumpit said...

Condolezza bears considerable responsibility for the million deaths in Iraq during her time in power. She failed to solve the WMD issue in North Korea when she had the chance. So, I won't put a dime in her pocket by buying her book. Still, I would like to see her run for the presidency - of Zimbabwe. Mugabe is a terrible person, and should be ousted from power.

mockturtle said...

Mugabe is a terrible person, and should be ousted from power.

Have to agree with you there, Trumpit. That he remains in power stretches the limits of my incredulity.

mockturtle said...

Or stretches the limits of my credulity. Either way. ;-)

Kirk Parker said...

Cookie,

The fact that you write "Obamneycare" marks you out as one not worth talking to on the subject.

Kirk Parker said...

"Is Condi talking about legal or illegal immigrants?"

We don't care.

"Big difference."

We don't care.

Kirk Parker said...

"Condi needs somebody to read her book."

A $17 Kindle volume? Yeah, right.