May 7, 2017

Confronting Scott Walker...



Via Instapundit ("These confrontations have always worked out so well for them) and Hot Air ("All of this started yesterday when Gov. Walker said he would consider applying for a waiver under the GOP Obamacare replacement plan....).

I've got nothing to say about the awful Obamacare and its awful alternatives, but I enjoyed watching this clip as a magnificent example of the ultra-slow-boil political style of Scott Walker.

ADDED: I played the clip for Meade, and he said "Cue it up," which I didn't understand at first. He wanted to hear this:



AND: As long as we're here...

141 comments:

traditionalguy said...

Walker wins by a knockout.

Karen of Texas said...

That was excellent.

Rene' Saunce said...

Leftwing loser lies.

Michael K said...

Last year was too early for Walker, I think. I was a fan of his from the start. The voters, especially the "Deplorable" white middle class were so angry they wanted to throw out the entire political class and they did.

Bay Area Guy said...

Walker 1, genteel, obscure, low level Dem politician 0

And I liked Walker's Rattlers jersey, too!

Rene' Saunce said...

MK - The media steamrolled every GOP candidate to make way for Trump - the guy they assumed (and me too) Hillary could easily beat. Turns out, Hillary was so awful, the media manipulation didn't matter. Next time, the media will need to prop-up Hillary with more gusto. All her past crimes hidden and forgotten... Ya know - "old news."

But yeah - I'd love Scott Walker as president.

tcrosse said...

Walker speaks Truth to Powerlessness.

AReasonableMan said...

Don't really get what righties see in Walker. He was a nonentity in the Red team debates and he comes across as unpleasant in this clip. Not likable enough to be president. Much the same is true of Ryan, which reminds me Ross Douthat had some thoughts on RyanCare:

the American Health Care Act, a misbegotten Obamacare quasi-replacement with the favorable ratings of diphtheria and the strong support of almost nobody on the right who cares about health policy.

the bill [is] a self-parodic exercise in cutting Medicaid to fund tax cuts for the rich.

The Republicans were given a gift by Trump’s campaign, a grace they did not merit: the gift of freedom from the trap of dogma, from the pre-existing condition of zombie Reaganism, from an agenda out of touch with the concerns of their actual constituents. Nominating Trump wasn’t as suicidal as it seemed only because he had the political cunning to run against the party’s ideological enforcers, while promising working-class voters not just cultural acknowledgment but material support.

As written, the A.H.C.A. basically takes Trump’s gift to the party and hurls it off the highest possible cliff. It is not just the scale of the likely insurance losses, or how much the rich benefit from repeal relative to everybody else. It’s also the gulf between that reality and what Trump and various Republican leaders explicitly promised — insisting that their plan would deliver better coverage, lower premiums, and a lot of other things that have since taken a back seat to making room in the budget for more tax cuts.


You can't fix stupid.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Tom Nelson is still pissed off about the drubbing he took in the US House of Representatives election for WI 8th district. Nelson experienced, well known and current office holder only got 38% against a rookie Republican.....ouch

Rene' Saunce said...

Walker beat your corrupt party, ARM. Illegal midnight home raids, and all.

Abusing law enforcement powers to punish political opponents is a crime.

JAORE said...

" he comes across as unpleasant in this clip."

Different people will see this differently.

I do not know the particulars of the Wisconsin system. No one, yet, knows what will come out of the pipeline if Trump care ultimately passes (though Lord knows we hear enough about the horrors that the left believes dwell within).

The councilman was wrong to take the action he did.

I see a guy, Governor Walker, calmly handling someone hoping to pull off an ambush for a few minutes of camera time grandstanding. Time he, apparently, can not get on the merits of his argument.

Sure Walker escalates the tone and direction of his language. But that is because the early, semi-graceful exit path was rejected by the Councilman again and again.

Rene' Saunce said...

Gruber, architect of ACA:

"Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage,”... “Basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.”

ARM hearts Gruber.

Rene' Saunce said...

How Obamacare Execs Broke the Law and Cost Taxpayers Billions

AReasonableMan said...

Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI)said...

"The American Health Care Act (AHCA) is an amendment to the ACA that deliberately maintains Obamacare’s framework. Many of the AHCA’s provisions are poorly conceived or improperly implemented.

This is not the bill we promised the American people. For the past seven years, Republicans have run for Congress on a commitment to repeal Obamacare. But it is increasingly clear that a bill to repeal Obamacare will not come to the floor in this Congress or in the foreseeable future."

Rene' Saunce said...

So - why are you so worried, ARM?

ObamaCare will likely stand and continue to bleed most Americans dry. celebrate.

Gahrie said...


ARM hearts Gruber.

Gruber depends on ARM, and those like him.

AReasonableMan said...

Obamacare more popular than Trump

What is the AHCA more popular than? Dog shit?

Hagar said...

The majority of the people get their medical insurance through their employers and do not notice what an enormous tax they are paying, but a substantial minority that are expected to join the system individually will look at the cost and do everything they can to avoid it.
And they will find ways.

Rene' Saunce said...

Are polls safe spaces for leftists?

Rene' Saunce said...

Hagar - most of the people I know who get insurance thru their employer HAVE noticed the massive premium spikes and the higher deductibles.

Rene' Saunce said...

Gruber depends on ARM, and those like him.

Indeed.

buwaya said...

The press didnt cover what an enormous hit Obamacare was on employer plan costs, and thus cost of employment. This labor cost escalation alone explains much of the poor employment recovery since 2010.

But its buried in BLS data and the people arent going to know that unless someone tells them, and even then it is a non-trivial explanation. Not even here can people get it very well.

It was a case, as it often is, of the people feeling something is wrong, but not knowing precisely what.

AReasonableMan said...

buwaya said...
It was a case, as it often is, of the people feeling something is wrong, but not knowing precisely what.


Hard to reconcile this statement with Obamacare's current popularity or the AHCA's lack of support outside the beltway.

Rene' Saunce said...

The Washington Post - lol. House Organ for the left-o-crats.
ObamaCare is popular!

Original Mike said...

A couple of days ago, near the end of an ObamaCare thread, @jaed posted his/her ObamaCare experience. I hope he/she doesn't mind if I repost it for those who missed it.

Blogger jaed responded to this..."Everyone likes to pretend that Obamacare is wonderful and loved by everyone"

with this...

"Almost invariably, the people who claim that are the protected—those with secure employer-based group insurance and/or enough money to pay for catastrophic medical situations themselves.

The protected have seen their premiums go up, but they haven't seen them double. They aren't looking at premiums the size of their mortgage.

They didn't keep up continuous coverage for years or decades, only to have their good insurance canceled by the ACA, with nothing left on the market but the awful "metal" plans.

They aren't looking at ruinous deductibles that leave them no good way to pay for medical care, since a hole has already been blown in the budget by the high premiums.

The protected see none of this... and those of them who hail Obamacare and oppose any attempt to give relief to its victims disgust me. All of that suffering, all of that economic damage, all of that sitting and wondering whether you can afford to see a doctor, the yearly cancellations of insurance, the yearly search for new doctors who will take your new insurance, the fear that comes from knowing that only the most cut-rate doctors and hospitals are allowed for you if you do have a major medical problem... all of that is nothing to these people compared to the ability to signal their virtue on the backs of the minority who buy individual insurance. I am, I fear, beginning to hate them."

Michael K said...

MK - The media steamrolled every GOP candidate to make way for Trump

Oh, this is just a variation of "If it bleeds, it leads."

Trump was good copy and the rest looked like the seven dwarves.

Nobody but Jeb! wanted Jeb. Cruz is impressive but frankly, I would rather see him on the Court.

Perry shot himself in the foot and Trump has given him a chance to show what he can do.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Obamacare' current popularity? Talk about fake news. It's all ginned up to make it seem like the GOP will pay a big political price in changing anything.

It's hugely unpopular, always has been.

Anything would be better. Just like anyone would be better than Hillary.

Rene' Saunce said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rene' Saunce said...

MK - I know you like Trump, and I too am glad he won over the vile corrupt alternative, but there is no doubt in my mind the media wanted Trump.

Trump did some things right, but to call Walker, Cruz, Carson, Rand and the others "7 dwarves" - is short-sighted. I'd rather have a future where they are in charge, that some NY liberal or corrupt democrat steering us into a ditch.

**

Rene' Saunce said...

Proof is how fast the media have turned the their open microphone for Trump into blanket non-stop negative coverage of him.

Hagar said...

Hagar - most of the people I know who get insurance thru their employer HAVE noticed the massive premium spikes and the higher deductibles.

But what choice do they have? It comes with the job. Take it or leave it.
The self-employed, "contract" employees, and "undergrounders" that avoid notifying the governments of their existence will find ways to dodge the tax.

Marty Keller said...

ARM said, "Don't really get what righties see in Walker."

Truth. He doesn't get it any more than Tom Barrett, Peter Barca, Paul Soglin, or Tom Nelson.

So unable to "get it" that he probably has no clue why the benighted people of Wisconsin added to the GOP majority in both houses last November.

What characterizes poor ARM's cluelessness is his myopic unwillingness to consider other people's perspectives. He's made it clear over the years that he thinks himself above such hard work. Like most of his fellow Democrats.

Rene' Saunce said...

Hagar - correct. What choice do they have?

Choice is for suckers.

Michael K said...

Trump did some things right, but to call Walker, Cruz, Carson, Rand and the others "7 dwarves" - is short-sighted.

I guess you watched different debates than I did.

Rene' Saunce said...

Cruz was awesome at the Boulder debate. Trump was often lewd and insulted everyone - to the delight of the media.

David Begley said...

Original Mike:

Jaed's post was worth reprinted. It should be reprinted again but this time on the front page of the NYT.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Reason #1 why I would totally fail at politics.

At about 1.20 in the video I would have punched that guy in the nose.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What is the AHCA [aka Obamacare] more popular than? Dog shit?

I would say less popular than dog shit. At least dog shit doesn't cost you over 6K a year for just having it and then another 6K to get any benefit.

So 12 K for a big pile of shit. Yeah. I'll take the free shit.

David said...

"Don't really get what righties see in Walker."

Results.

Hagar said...

50 million Americans lying awake nights trying to think of ways to avoid Obama/RyanCare can't be wrong!

furious_a said...

“Blue Wisconsin came on in the same old way, and Walker sent them back in the same old way,” -- classical reference.

ARM: Don't really get what righties see in Walker.

Clueless ARM doesn't "get" winning again and again and again.

furious_a said...

It's not over until clueless ARM gets it. -- Russ Feingold.

AllenS said...

Dust Bunny Queen said...
Reason #1 why I would totally fail at politics.

At about 1.20 in the video I would have punched that guy in the nose.


You'd get my vote.

Original Mike said...

@David Begley - Yeah, it struck a chord with me. I'm in the "protected" class, but from Day One I've been appalled at the "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" betrayal and what has happened to people in the private market.

Michael K said...

The Democrats seem to have decided that the "Ryancare" hill is the one they want to die on today.

Juan Williams was going on and on about their talking points this morning.

ARM, of course echoes the talking points.

I don't know what is going to happen in the Senate but Obamacare has pretty much destroyed the health care system that took care of 85% of the population pretty well the last 70 years.

The administrators thought Obamacare would be a bonanza for them because it forced all the young and healthy to pay into the system. They bought all the doctors' practices in the hospital where I practiced for 30 years.

My old surgical group, which was the busiest and which ran the trauma center for 35 years with excellent results, was made an "offer they couldn't refuse" by the hospital to buy their practice. They said no, and the next time the trauma contract was to be renewed, they were dropped and new anonymous surgeons, all women, from elsewhere in California were brought in. The ER was told they should not refer any cases to the fired surgical group and the medical people, all of whom are now employees of the hospital, were told (probably) the same thing.

I have heard via the grapevine that the new trauma team has had some bad results but no one talks about it.

I would not allow myself to be admitted there now.

A friend, a GI doc who is excellent, told me he was asked to do some of his endoscopy cases in the hospital suite. He has had his own endoscopy suite in his office for 30 years but he told me agreed to go look at the hospital facility. He was feeling pressure like the surgical group. He said he looked at the charts of patients who had been scoped in the hospital unit. All had had excessive and unnecessary lab tests.

This is fraud. My daughter has decided that she will become a health fraud investigator when she retires from the FBI.

She will be busy, Thanks to the Obamacare consolidation of the ethical "cottage industry" of health care into an industrial behemoth with an insatiable appetite for revenue.

Tim said...

All the "affordable health care act" did was drive premiums and deductibles through the roof. the people that like it were put on medicaid. Welfare for people making upwards of $75k.

Original Mike said...

"Juan Williams was going on and on about their talking points this morning."

Karl Rove wiped the floor with Jonathan Gruber, especially when it got to Gruber blaming Trump for ObamaCare inploding.

exiledonmainstreet said...

ARM said, "Don't really get what righties see in Walker."

Thank God for that. If you got it, perhaps you'd engage in some self-criticism and come to understand why a state that was pretty reliably blue not so long ago turned red. But since the left doesn't do introspection, pols like Walker win.

Earnest Prole said...

"We will stand with Governor Walker."

I can't tell if it's supporting him or some kind of elaborate parody mocking him and the citizens of Wisconsin.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Walker handled that jerk beautifully.

That's how you do it, Republicans.

chickelit said...

The man badgering Walker is a pushy dweeb.

Hagar said...

I am old and "unhealthy"- according to the experts anyway - and I am not going to have anything to do with any of their plans either.
Of course, like Prince Phillip, I am not going to be around much longer, so, what does it matter? Well, how much company do I have?

Rene' Saunce said...

My husband would’ve died with Obamacare

ARM - the moderate radical leftwing fascist - laughs.

Rene' Saunce said...

Bottom line is the democrats lied and said "we have to fix this because everything is broken" and then they broke it.

320Busdriver said...

Walker owns the lefties in WI. Just wait to see who they trot out to challenge him for Gov. Sure to be a hot mess. I was actually expecting him to be more calm than what he appears on the video. And someone had that jackwagon Gruber on tv?

320Busdriver said...

No one knows what any health related service or product costs. Its a feature, not a bug.

The Cracker Emcee said...

By attacking AHCA the Left undermines what it's derived from. But they're far too stupid to understand that. I understand why Republicans didn't go for full repeal, though. Why pay the political costs of that when they can peck it to death at their leisure?

Michael K said...

Rene, I can add a story to the one you provided at that link. I put it in my second book, too.

Way back about 1973, I was called to the ER to see a 34 your woman who had been brought in in full cardiac arrest. She had collapsed at home and her husband, who happened to be home, did CPR on her but it had been a long time and we thought it was probably hopeless.

I managed to get a temporary pacemaker in her heart and we got it going but she was comatose for days. She also had some other signs of severe damage from shock, including bloody diarrhea and some kidney problems. Anyway, to make a long story short, she woke up about five days after being admitted. She completely recovered except for the fact that she had no memory of her life before awakening in the hospital.

My wife said it would make a good TV script but I never did anything about it. Her church helped her relearn the local geography and how to cook, etc. She carried a slip of paper in her pocket for a while with her children's names. She completely recovered except for the memory. She spent years as a volunteer in the hospital and then later an employee. I used to see her every day.

The second part of the story is of an older women, about 55, who collapsed in front of her husband 20 years later and was rushed by paramedics to the hospital. She had had a heat attack but we got her defibrillated much more quickly than Dottie, the other women.

She was still comatose but did not have any signs of brain death. I told her husband about the other case and suggested we put her in ICU and see what happened.

I went by ICU a few hours later and she was gone. The nurses told me the husband had transferred her to Kaiser where they were members. We looked at each other with knowing eyes.

A couple of days later the husband came by the thank everyone for their work. He told us that Kaiser had "pulled the plug" on her in a couple of hours.

He said, "Maybe I shouldn't have transferred her."

Pretty sad.

Rene Saunce said...

MK-
This is fraud. My daughter has decided that she will become a health fraud investigator when she retires from the FBI.

She will be busy, Thanks to the Obamacare consolidation of the ethical "cottage industry" of health care into an industrial behemoth with an insatiable appetite for revenue.


Good!


&

Kaiser... gives me the creeps. One of the mega behemoths that crawled into bed with O-care. Plus, it sort of sucked before anyway.

Rene Saunce said...

Cracker

By attacking AHCA the Left undermines what it's derived from.


For the left, the failures and lies of ObamaCare are a bonus.

AReasonableMan said...

Marty Keller said...
Truth.


Walker must be a regional taste, like Montforte Blue cheese. He went nowhere on the national stage.

AReasonableMan said...

Rene' Saunce said...
My husband would’ve died with Obamacare


I was wondering how long it would take you to land on this nonsense. You are even slower and stupider than I thought. Two possibilities:
1. You didn't read it.
2. You didn't understand it.

Complete nonsense.

Unknown said...

"You can't fix stupid."

Can't think of a better epitaph for ARM's tombstone.

AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...
"You can't fix stupid."


Apparently not. Did you actually read what Douthat said? Do you have any substantive response whatsoever?

Rene Saunce said...

ARM - Hillary still lost - and YOU voted for her.
LOLOLOLOLOL. Asshole.

Rene Saunce said...

ARM - you fail to understand the reality of Gruber-Care for most Americans.


Michael K said...

ARM exhibits the lovely self absorption and disdain of the left for anyone who has a different opinion.

Even Inga I can have a discussion about healthcare with.

AReasonableMan said...

Crazy April is losing her shit today. Genuinely entertaining.

Tell us Crazy April, in your own words, how exactly does the AHCA improve on Obamacare? Given this fabulous improvement, explain why everybody hates it.

Rene Saunce said...

You first, ARM. Explain why everyone hates O-Care first, and then explain why everyone hates the AHCA. Can you do it without re-posting drivel from Ross Douthat?

Zombie Obama economics. O-Care is the law of the land, and ARM desperately laughs at ordinary Americans paying for its failures.



AReasonableMan said...

There is a good article out today by Peter Suderman, editor at Reason, on what a clusterfuck the AHCA is and also why it is such a clusterfuck. You should read it. Get some information to back up that bile.

Precised below:

"I have been a critic of Obamacare since it became law, but the Republican alternative is worse in nearly every way.

The American Health Care Act, which was narrowly passed in the House last week, would worsen Obamacare’s problems rather than fix them. Coverage would be disrupted for millions almost immediately.

The bill would end Obamacare’s individual mandate, already too weak as a policy mechanism, and impose a fee on those who go without coverage and want to re-enter the insurance market — creating an incentive for relatively healthy people to remain uncovered. As a result, the instability that already exists in Obamacare’s exchanges as insurers scale back around the country would only be increased.

It doesn’t even fulfill the Republican Party’s goal of fully repealing Obamacare: It leaves many key insurance regulations in place at the federal level.

It’s unclear what health policy problem this bill would solve. Even for an opponent of Obamacare, it is difficult to understand why House Republicans chose this path to revamping the nation’s health care system. It’s difficult to understand, that is, if you think they were passing a health care bill. It makes more sense when you realize that isn’t what they were doing at all. They were passing a tax cut — especially for the top 20 percent of earners.

The focus on tax cuts explains why they were so eager to move on an unpopular bill that they had not read and struggled to defend or even describe. And it explains why the bill is so poorly conceived as health policy.

It is not too hard to imagine, for example, that if the Republican bill becomes law in something like its current form, and the exchanges melt down, disrupting coverage for millions in the process, that the result will be calls for further government intervention — for bailouts and, if the system collapses into complete chaos, movement toward a government-run public option, or single payer.

Those options would require tax increases of a size that might otherwise make even many Democrats think twice — and would make the higher taxes included in Obamacare seem paltry by comparison."

AReasonableMan said...

Rene Saunce said...
You first


You are a dumb coward, spewing bile and hatred with no factual or intellectual backup whatsoever. A complete disgrace as a human being.

320Busdriver said...

how exactly does the AHCA improve on Obamacare?

It does increase the premium ratio from 3:1 to 5:1 for older people. IOW for those that can afford it and who use it.

Michael K said...

ARM, I'm glad to see you support pure repeal. We can finally agree on something.

320Busdriver said...

Does not matter anyway. The Senate will have its own bill and it will have a cbo score.

AReasonableMan said...

320Busdriver said...
It does increase the premium ratio from 3:1 to 5:1 for older people. IOW for those that can afford it and who use it.


You understand that this results in massive increases in premiums for old people, often well past their peak earning years? Massive increases, close to 10-fold in some cases.

AReasonableMan said...

"The CBO offers an example of a single individual with an annual income of $26,500.
If that person is 64 years old, he would be hurt by the Republican bill. Under Obamacare, he would pay $1,700 in premiums for insurance. But under the Republican bill, he would pay $14,600 — more than half his annual income."

320Busdriver said...

You understand that this results in massive increases in premiums for old people, often well past their peak earning years? Massive increases, close to 10-fold in some cases.

Yes, but the states have discretion here. Certainly the aged can afford it more than the young. Massive increases were ok though as long as Pelosi Reid passed them???
As I said, keep your powder dry.

Rene Saunce said...

The CBO - lol. The CBO is a joke.

Rene Saunce said...

A full repeal is the only way. Sadly, because Kimmel, the hack press, and the corrupt D-machine hold everyone's balls, it won't happen.

If Americans understood the truth, it would happen.

I stand with Rand. Full repeal.

AReasonableMan said...

320Busdriver said...
Yes, but the states have discretion here. Certainly the aged can afford it more than the young. Massive increases were ok though as long as Pelosi Reid passed them


Don't think you really understand how insurance works. Yes the young in many cases had to pay more than they used and vice versa for the old but disparities are common amongst the insured. If you don't have cancer you get less out of the system than if you have cancer. But you do get count your blessings.

320Busdriver said...

"A 64-year-old who's making $68,200 a year would fare a bit better. Under Obamacare, he's expected to pay $15,300 in premiums for insurance — because his income would be too high to receive the law's tax credits. But under the Republican bill, everyone below $75,000 gets a tax credit based on age (with a phaseout for higher incomes). So he would get a subsidy that would reduce his premium to $14,600 — just barely enough to be lower than it would be under Obamacare"

AReasonableMan said...

Pathetic response. The guy is no better off and now his health insurance system is failing and will have to be bailed out with a large tax increase in the future.

Rene Saunce said...

Leftists who say "You don't understand how insurance works" = LOL.

320Busdriver said...

I'm also a licensed p&c agent, so, yes I do..

If it increases the size of the pool it helps to reduce premiums..

CWJ said...

"Zombie Obama economics. O-Care is the law of the land, and ARM desperately laughs at ordinary Americans paying for its failures."

I don't think ARM laughs, but he does dismiss real life evidence offered by those ordinary Americans. I believe the phrase he used with me was "your old, tired arguments." For ARM, polls, pundits, and the CBO are more convincing than facts at ground zero.

"You are a dumb coward, spewing bile and hatred with no factual or intellectual backup whatsoever. A complete disgrace as a human being."

And off comes the mask.

Bay Area Guy said...

ARM said, "Don't really get what righties see in Walker."

ARM should have stopped at "get"

Heh - heh

Michael K said...

"The CBO offers an example of a single individual with an annual income of $26,500.
If that person is 64 years old,


What a ridiculous example ! He's probably eligible for Medicaid, which is why the low "premium."

Second, with an income that low, why not register for Social Security ? It would be early but a small sacrifice in income as I understand it.

AReasonableMan said...

CWJ said...
but he does dismiss real life evidence


Internet anecdotes I do dismiss out of hand.

There have been rises in premiums since obamacare was introduced, not arguing with this. There were increases in premiums before it was introduced. This is what it means when they say health care costs significantly outpace inflation. The ACA reduced this inflation for everyone. By this measure alone it has been a success, not to mention the vastly increased coverage.

The question is not whether the ACA is perfect. It is not. The question is whether it can be improved upon. Clearly the AHCA is not an improvement. As Suderman points out it is not even trying to improve the system, it is all about tax cuts for the top 10%. Sad!

Michael K said...

"If you like your doctor...."

"If you like your health plan..."

"The ACA will reduce premiums by $2500...."

AReasonableMan said...

"Asked by CNN’s Jake Tapper about the high-risk pool plan, Kasich said it simply wouldn’t work.

“This business of these [high]-risk pools, they are not funded. … Eight billion dollars is not enough to fund. It’s ridiculous,” he said, laughing. “And the fact is, states are not going to opt for that.”

Kasich said that as governor he would not opt for the waiver from Obamacare’s pre-existing conditions provisions.

“There would be no reason to move to a high-risk pool, because a high-risk pool is not funded,” he said. “So, I would just stay in the traditional program on the exchange.”

He was also highly critical of the plan to unwind the Obamacare expansion, which brought coverage to millions of people in the 31 states that took advantage of it. Kasich wondered what would happen to all the people who wouldn’t have had coverage if not for the expansion.

“In Medicaid, you are going to knock all these people off after 2020, which is just a few years away,” he said."

AReasonableMan said...

The AHCA is a joke. A joke perpetrated on the public by Paul Ryan in an attempt to get tax cuts for the rich. A sad little fuck looking for a big payday when he get thrown out of congress.

Inga said...

Walker and Trump voters own TrumpCare. Enjoy the responsibility and the backlash when people find out that preexisting conditions will once again get them denied for health insurance.

buwaya said...

The rise in premiums was tremendous for employer plans, based on the BLS data, in 2010-2013, and this high price level has continued to rise.

Which has certainly had economic effects due to increased total cost of employment. Reducing, for instance, both employment and wages.

tcrosse said...

Partisan blather. AHCA is not a law yet, nor is it likely ever to be. But it elicits the rage of the H8ers.

AReasonableMan said...

No one is arguing either that healthcare isn't overpriced in this country or that the rate of inflation for health care costs is unsustainable. This is not an argument either for or against the ACA, it is a fact of life.

Jim at said...

"Don't really get what righties see in Walker." - ANonreasonableLeftist

It's very simple.

He kicked your ass - three times - in the birthplace of your precious, progressive movement by completely neutering the parasitic public employee unions.

The end.

AReasonableMan said...

tcrosse said...
AHCA is not a law yet


So just a sad political trick played out on haters like Crazy April. Do you think this is a good thing?

Inga said...

Regarding Rene Saunce...

"You are a dumb coward, spewing bile and hatred with no factual or intellectual backup whatsoever. A complete disgrace as a human being."

Finally someone said it. She ranted and railed against Trump for months and months, then became one of the most vociferous Trump Ass Kissers, that is schizophrenic, or just plain dumb.

Hagar said...

The fix for "stupid" is going to be coercion. Bigtime.

AReasonableMan said...

Walker folded like a cheap suit when he had to play with the big boys.

"Wisconsin’s workforce has a smaller share of people with a bachelor’s or advanced degree than any of its neighbors, and Wisconsin’s in-migration of such adults is among the lowest in the nation"

"For the second year in a row, Wisconsin has earned a bottom-of-the-barrel ranking for start-up business activity"

Not a state going anywhere in a hurry.

AReasonableMan said...

Inga said...
She ranted and railed against Trump for months and months, then became one of the most vociferous Trump Ass Kissers


She has no moorings beyond a hatred of liberals. I don't know what those fucking liberals did to her but I wish they hadn't. Her crazy train spiels don't help debate on this forum

khesanh0802 said...

Here are the results of the latest Gallup poll on April 4 re Obamacare. Although 55% are in favor of Obamacare the reality is that: "Though a majority of Americans now approve of the ACA, only about one in four (26%) want to keep it largely as it is. Forty percent want to keep the law in place but make significant changes, while 30% want to repeal and replace it." Let's review for emphasis: 26% want to keep Obamacare as it is; 70% want to make significant changes or repeal/replace it.70% want the Federal health law significantly changed or repealed - that's 70%. according to Gallup. In an earlier poll Rasmussen found 18% did not want Obamacare changed; 51% wanted some changes and 25% were in favor of total repeal. So both Gallup and Rasmussen basically agree that about 70% of those polled want changes - either partial or complete- in Obamacare.

So the Congress is being responsive to the American people by addressing the shortcomings of Obamacare. If the people had wanted the Democratic solution (if any) they would have elected Democratic majorities in the House and Senate and a Democratic President. They did not. So, apparently the American people - though nervous about change, like most humans - wanted the Republicans to take a shot at reforming Obamacare. They are doing that.

And ARM, BTW, the Republican bill is not a tax cut, it is the removal of a whopping ($1 trillion) tax increase that is included in Obamacare. If you like tax increases, that's heartbreaking for you, but for those that would have to pay them it means that some of that money can go to productive uses. One of the tax " cuts", in fact the biggest apparently, was for fees from those who had to pay a penalty under the mandate ($210 billion) - people like my wife. In other words the Dems put together a plan that required everyone to have insurance ( making the self-righteously proud) and then planned to fund the program with the fees from those that didn't buy insurance. There is something wrong with that picture.

What I would really like to see from ARM is some suggestions about how Obamacare can be improved before it collapses. He is apparently smarter and more tuned in to the vibes of the common man and woman than the Congress or the President so I await any suggestions he has to make with bated breath. What I have seen from him so far is a repetition of the points made by the Democratic press. They certainly have no useful suggestions.

khesanh0802 said...

@ Inga From Politifact re pre-existing conditions: "The amendment has language that appears to protect those with pre-existing conditions stating that "nothing in this Act shall be construed as permitting insurers to limit access to health coverage for individuals with pre-existing conditions."

Just to be balanced, pre-existing conditions may or may not be included in a high risk pool. That will be up to the states, as well as how those higher premiums might be subsidized ( see MN's $325 million subsidy for regular premiums this year as an example of possible funding).

For emphasis: "nothing in this Act shall be construed as permitting insurers to limit access to health coverage for individuals with pre-existing conditions."

High risk pools were a very successful way of ensuring coverage for pre-existing conditions until Obamacare made us all subsidize those with high risk health conditions - you know like obesity, or smoking. or high blood pressure as well as real illnesses like cancer.

AReasonableMan said...

No one is arguing that the ACA is perfect or unimprovable. The Dems acknowledge this. And yes, the AHCA is a giant tax cut. If it removes taxes then it is a tax cut. The Republicans who voted for it happily acknowledge that it is a tax cut.

Many, possibly a majority of those who want changes want a single-payer system.

To argue that the AHCA would result in improved health insurance for anyone requires breathtaking naivete. It will require much higher premiums for many because it is a giant tax cut. Many people will lose their insurance entirely.

I don't think the Dems went far enough to rein in health care costs. The changes I would like to see involve price controls. Health care costs are killing the country.

AReasonableMan said...

khesanh0802 said...
High risk pools were a very successful way of ensuring coverage for pre-existing conditions


Not really and did you read what Kasich, an actual governor, had to say?

Swede said...

Obamacare is so popular, which explains why the Dems control the House, Senate, and White House.

Keep screwing that chicken.

AReasonableMan said...

Swede said...
Obamacare is so popular


Actually it got a lot more popular after the Red team made their 'improvements' public. I am guessing that this works out well for the Dems in 2018.

Swede said...

My guess is that your guess will be as accurate for the Dems as this last election was.

Birkel said...

@ AReasonableMan

Define "a lot more popular" when 70% want repeal or significant changes.

Define "a lot more popular" in light of a Republican president, House, Senate, majority of governors and majority of state houses.

Swede said...

That's what victory for Dems looks like!

You're just not nuanced enough to see the obvious!

AReasonableMan said...

Birkel said...
Define "a lot more popular" when 70% want repeal or significant changes.


A majority want to keep it and of those that want to change it many want single payer.

On the other hand, the AHCA is about as popular as a turd in the punch bowl. But keep polishing that turd if you think it is going to bring electoral good fortune.

Bill Peschel said...

Pray that you never have a major medical catastrophe if you're covered under Obamacare:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/6/my-husband-wouldve-died-obamacare/

ARM, you have no argument expect polls, which can be manipulated.

Repeat: Polls are not reality.

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khesanh0802 said...

@ARM I guess my first question for you is where do you get your health insurance coverage? Though personal that's really important, because if you get it from an employer or through the government then you really have little first hand experience with what Obamacare is doing. If you pay for it yourself then I find it hard to believe that you are enjoying the premium increases, etc. that Obamacare subjects you to.

Kasich said that the high risk pools are inadequately funded. He didn't say they wouldn't work if adequately funded. Hard for me, personally, to put much faith in anything Kasich has to say.

Essentially you are for government control of health care and health care costs. The VA is the perfect example of what happens under that scenario. If you wish to enroll yourself for care under the VA be my guest. I am a veteran and I won't.

As to Obamacare's popularity I refer you to my note to you at 3:22. 70% of those polled want changes in Obamacare. Being human, those polled are also nervous about change of any kind. (See Sheldon of The Big Bang for the universal human reaction to change: "Horrors!") I think the Republicans run a bigger risk by not doing anything than by making whatever changes they can. The problem the Dems will have 2018 is that they have made no constructive suggestions about how to improve Obamacare; and even you admit that Obamacare is neither "perfect or un-improvable". As I said the other day resistance to at least some change in Obamacare is going to be a real problem for the Dems. If they are able to defeat any changes in the Senate then the R's will still be running on cleaning up the Obamacare mess and they will be doing a lot of that against D's in red states. Even MN tipped close to Red in 2018 and a lot of that had to do with health insurance costs that are unaffordable to many people. If we go into 2018 with continued premium increases of 50% for individuals Al Franken could be in trouble.

AReasonableMan said...

Bill Peschel said...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/6/my-husband-wouldve-died-obamacare/


You should actually read that article before citing it because it is complete BS.

Johnny Sokko said...

Good lord, Walker butchered that guy. The dude thought he was going to ambush Walker and he got dismantled.

Birkel said...

@ AReasonableMan

So khesahn0802 mentions Gallup polls and you dismiss them. And then claim, counterfactually and contrary to the indisputable evidence of recent elections, that the world is as you wish it to be?

One cannot argue with another's imagination. Good luck.

Grab your carry on.

AReasonableMan said...

khesanh0802 said...
Senate then the R's will still be running on cleaning up the Obamacare mess and they will be doing a lot of that against D's in red states. Even MN tipped close to Red in 2018 and a lot of that had to do with health insurance costs that are unaffordable to many people. If we go into 2018 with continued premium increases of 50% for individuals Al Franken could be in trouble.


I don't think you are getting it. The US health system is now in Republican hands. If they can't fix it, which they obviously can't, then that falls on them, not the Dems. But, it gets worse, not only have they no clue how to fix it but their 'solution' makes everything worse, except for the tax bills for the one percent.

Did you not see Trump's ceremony in the Rose Garden? They own it now. They are morons but they wanted those big tax cuts.

Birkel said...

Dems: we broke health care insurance and it is all Republicans' fault.

@ AReasonableMan
That is a slogan you can use. Free of charge.

320Busdriver said...

"I don't think the Dems went far enough to rein in health care costs. The changes I would like to see involve price controls. Health care costs are killing the country."

This is true

Only Obama is the one who dropped the ball on reducing HC costs when he rejected the aid and counsel of Jack Wennberg of Dartmouth's Health Care Atlas. They had figured out where and why costs were exceeding inflation. He just did not follow through.

All this talk about insurance is just whistling past the graveyard. No one knows what the cost of any HC product or service is because everyone is charged a different price depending on if and what kind of insurance you have. We're told to become good consumers of HC, but if you attempt to do so you quickly realize its a fools errand.

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Birkel said...

@ 320BusDriver

We should pass a law forcing every health care provider to make pricing information available before the provision of medical services. This is the same requirement restaurants face with calorie count, except dramatically easier for the providers to know precisely.

Further, we should pass a law allowing individuals to pay health insurance in pre-tax dollars to establish parity with employer insurance.

Then, we should allow catastrophic plans. And we should encourage a la carte insurance pricing.

Finally, we can disentangle "pre-existing condiitions" and decide what level of subsidization we prefer as a polity. Then, we can decide if that subsidy be paid by private charity instead of as a forced wealth transfer by government.

That plan is nowhere under consideration. Graft and corruption cannot stand transparency.

Rusty said...

320
I don't think that was ever the intent. I think the intent was to control economic decisions. Otherwise why all the lies and obfiscation?
As I have said before the health insurane marketplace is awash in third and fourth party players to the point we cannot know the true costs.Once the outside mechanisms have been stripped out of the systen we can determine which way to go.

khesanh0802 said...

@ARM We'll have to agree to disagree and see how it comes out. Right now the only health care legislation in effect is Obamacare. Until the Congress passes a bill and Trump signs it, it will still be Obamacare. I guarantee you that, as a marketer, I would have no problem convincing red state voters that the Dems are responsible for health care until the above occurs. I even think that there are going to be Dem senators who get involved in the Senate bill because "resistance" will cook their goose.

I will enjoy seeing how it works out.

You didn't give me an answer to my question about your health insurance. You talk like you have no skin in the game. I am an old fart on Medicare with supplemental, but my wife is young enough to need individual insurance so I have gotten to see her premiums double in three years whilel her co-pays and deductibles have increased by 2/3. It is really aggravating ... and how the ACHA will make that worse I can not see.

khesanh0802 said...

@320 bus driver Your suggestions/observations get right to the meat of the problem. Since I pay cash for my wife I get to see what the health providers charge for various items. Talk about gold plated! Where we live there is a duopoly of medical care- Mayo in MN and Gunderson in nearby WI - there is no one else. No competition and these guys would be embarrassed if they had to post their prices publicly.

320Busdriver said...

@Birkel

All good ideas. On point 2 I am intrigued by the idea of providing everyone a SDHI standard deduction for health insurance, say 20k for a family, but making the benefits taxable to the employee while retaining the employer contribution deductible as business expense. Those who spend less receive a tax cut, plus the regressive nature of the current system and distortions(increased premiums, decreased wage income) are mitigated somewhat. The HC tax exclusion is the third largest HC tax expenditure behind all of Medicare and Medicaid.

As you say, we can spend all day arguing how bad the House bill is or isn't, but we get no closer to an actual solution to the problem, and folks in DC and the HC lobby like it that way.

320Busdriver said...

@khesanh0802

Have you been able to get an upfront cash price prior to deciding on any particular service/procedure?

If you have insurance there seems to be no way to determine what any provider will charge you prior to the service. And I would bet my house that the price would be a different number for you, for me, and the next person with a different plan. There is no price transparency.

Birkel said...

@ BusDriver

I would make employees on par with employers to encourage employees to internalize their own costs for health care. We would all push for better price if we were directly responsible for our own coverage.

I would take a cash payment for my benefits if I could buy a catastrophic plan on a pre-tax basis. That is even more beneficial to me than any government program, when coupled with an HSA with a significant contribution limit.

Jon Burack said...

Fascinating discussion. I vote that khesanh0802 wins.

Amazing how the actual health care financing issue facing America - costs - gets such short shrift from everyone. ACA did not a thing about it. It's irrelevant to ask what AHCA does, since AHCA is not a thing at all. But probably, it would if it were anything, do nothing at all also. No one making decisions knows what anything costs, hence costs never figure into any decision anyone in the system makes. ARM wants "cost controls," the one lonely time he even mentions this issue. I do not think cost controls are generally the way a modern economy controls costs.

AReasonableMan said...

Jon Burack said...
Amazing how the actual health care financing issue facing America - costs - gets such short shrift from everyone. ACA did not a thing about it.


This is a perfect post. A perfect example of how someone who knows nothing about a topic can clog up a discussion. In reality the ACA did do something about costs, it reduced the rate of increase. In reality the US pays vastly more for health care than equivalent countries all of which use cost controls to minimize health costs. They are all modern economies and all much better at controlling health care costs than the US.

AReasonableMan said...

Even RedState, that mouthpiece of the cuckservatives, is mocking Paul Ryan and the AHCA.

"Are you buying what he’s selling?"

Jon Burack said...

You do like to play this game of insult and intimidation, don't you Aristotle? What a joke. In fact, U.S. medical costs have outpaced inflation for a long time, but at a declining rate starting well over ten years ago. Costs STILL go up at a rate faster than inflation, but not as fast as they used to. That decline began way before ACA and ACA does nothing to increase its pace. Logic alone tells you that you cannot ADD purchasers of a product while doing nothing to increase its supply and do anything to reduce its cost.

Anyway, since you are our resident expert on everything, explain - without sniping if you know how to do that - why the laptop I bought a few years ago, cost about $300 but gave me computing power greater than what the Defense Department had when the computer age began. Was it cost controls that brought those prices down? Was that computer technology somehow simple to improve upon whereas all the medical technology we have now is not? Did God just design the markets of the world such that some things are price sensitive but others not? Come on, Aristotle, use that logic for which you are so famous.

MadisonMan said...

The optics of that are very bad for the local politician. There's a time and place for everything.

I will say that Gov Walker's bald spot is growing. (So is mine :( )

Rusty said...

Cost controls don't work. They invariably lead to black markets and market manipulation.
Remember what a disaster Nixons 'wage and price controls' were?
Sorry, but you're just, again, getting a third party between the market and the consumer.

320Busdriver said...

ARM Please report to the union hall for your updated talking points....over

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/16/news/economy/health-care-costs-rise-most-in-32years/

AReasonableMan said...

Here's the thing, the free market delusionists can't grasp about medical care, it's not a free market and can never be a free market while the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act is in place.

In a free market if I don't buy insurance on my car, crash it and then take it to the local body shop they will just laugh in my face when I demand that they fix the car for free. On the other hand if I am taken to a hospital and don't have medical insurance I will still be treated, whether or not I have any ability to pay. This is the antithesis of a free market.

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act was signed into law by Ronald Reagan.

None of the normal rules of a free market apply if you can still get the product even when you refuse to pay.

chickelit said...

Man, that's one of the most reasonable things I've seen you write.

Another reasonable point to make is offering free medical care to immigrant children without capping the number of children seeking it.