February 25, 2017

The disruption of people who won't accept disruption: Those terrible "legacy customers."

At WaPo, Larry Downes, co-author of "Big Bang Disruption," takes aim at people who "who simply refuse to migrate to disruptive innovations even after they’ve become both better and cheaper, and even after almost everyone else has made the shift."
[T]he real holdup is that non-adopters — mostly older, rural and less-educated — just aren’t interested in Internet access, at any price.... [T]he resisters are wrong....

[N]on-adopters ultimately cost more to serve. Printing information is increasingly a waste of scarce resources as digital alternatives continue to get better and cheaper. And all of us pay for the waste...

To overcome the inertia of legacy customers, it may be appropriate for governments to step in....

[S]ome technology dinosaurs need help being euthanized. Here, regulators can serve as a catalyst, providing the final nudge for legacy customers. Once it was clear that smart LEDs would become better and cheaper than inefficient incandescent lightbulbs, for example, governments around the world began passing laws banning production of the older technology.

And while things got a little messy at the end, in 2009 Congress succeeded in turning off analog TV, switching the few remaining holdouts over to digital. To ensure no one had to go without “Let’s Make a Deal,” lower-income families were given converter boxes for older tube TVs.
What about hipsters who insist on old-fashioned turntables and vinyl record albums? How come they're not in the article? I don't have to answer the question. To ask it is to have the answer jump off the page: older, rural, less-educated, Let’s Make a Deal....

And by the way, what's newer is not necessarily better. Consider: "The TV Is Hard to Hear... Flat-screen TVs, inconsistent streaming boxes and cinematic series have many asking, ‘What did they say?’"

IN THE COMMENTS: rehajm said: "Isn't the WaPoasaurus calling for its own death here?"

195 comments:

tcrosse said...

How about the disruption of those who won't accept the disruption of the Trump Presidency. They are legacy customers who refuse to accept innovation. What is to be done ?

mockturtle said...

I'm fairly old, I've lived in a rural areas and know more than a few 'less-educated' people. I've never met even one who has not been using the internet for years and also use smart phones. And internet access is appreciably more costly in rural areas. Where are these people the WaPo proclaims to be 'legacy' customers? While I admit my own experiences are anecdotal, I find it hard to believe that the WaPo has it's ink-stained finger on the real pulse of America any more than they did during the Presidential campaign. Fake news.

Once written, twice... said...

Ann, I remember a few years back that you were stockpiling incandescent lightbulbs because you did not like the new technology and the government telling you which lightbulbs to buy. A couple of questions...how do you think the the whole lightbulb thing worked out? How many incandescent bulbs do you have left?

Once written, twice... said...

(I picture you having a closet full...)

YoungHegelian said...

Once it was clear that smart LEDs would become better and cheaper than inefficient incandescent lightbulbs, for example, governments around the world began passing laws banning production of the older technology.

Well, that's some revisionist history. The smart LEDs came after many governments had banned incandescents in favor of those God-awful compact fluorescent bulbs. After folks started to discover what a pickle we'd all been left in with the CF bulbs (awful light, mercury exposure when broken), the engineers bailed us all out by coming out with LEDs instead. We were lucky that time.

But the lesson here is not "Let's push the troglodytes into the future with some state help". It's "Those government assholes! We woudda had house full of mercury fumes & unusable lighting had it not been for GE!".

I still prefer the light quality of incandescents.

Ann Althouse said...

"How many incandescent bulbs do you have left?"

I don't know. I rarely need to change a lightbulb. How come other people's lightbulbs are always burning out? I have incandescent bulbs that have been working for 20 years.

Fernandinande said...

it may be appropriate for governments to step in....

Hang onto your wallets.

Once it was clear that smart LEDs would become better and cheaper than inefficient incandescent lightbulbs, for example, governments around the world began passing laws banning production of the older technology.

If the LEDs were really better there would be no reason to ban the competition.

mockturtle said...

tcrosse, I was thinking the same thing.

Ann Althouse said...

I just have them in their boxes stacked up in the basement.

Once written, twice... said...

The only way an incandescent bulb could last twenty years is if you never turn it on.

Ann Althouse said...

I've never bought a single compact fluorescent bulb.

Original Mike said...

"A couple of questions...how do you think the the whole lightbulb thing worked out?"

Worked out great for me. Haven't had to buy a bulb in years; I just go to the closet.

Achilles said...

"[S]ome technology dinosaurs need help being euthanized. Here, regulators can serve as a catalyst, providing the final nudge for legacy customers."

Eugenics has always been a progressive dream.

Original Mike said...

"I've never bought a single compact fluorescent bulb."

Me neither.

Drago said...

Once written, twice...: "The only way an incandescent bulb could last twenty years is if you never turn it on."

Well, that certainly explains your longevity, eh?

Fernandinande said...

How come other people's lightbulbs are always burning out? I have incandescent bulbs that have been working for 20 years.

There's a bulb that's been running for > 100 years. IIRC, it's 7 watts.

Things that limit the bulb life:
- turning on/off a lot.
- hot environment.
- bulb getting bumped.
- high wattage (100 vs 60).
- high voltage (120 vs 110).

buwaya said...

I still shoot film. I have Rodinal in my veins. You will pry my Spotmatics from my cold dead hands.

Drago said...

Ann Althouse: "I've never bought a single compact fluorescent bulb"

A wise move on so many levels, particularly on the "Avoid having to follow HazMat instructions for potential cleanup".

The lefty slogan was "Reduce levels of naturally occurring mercury in bodies of water and artificially raise the mercury levels in your family's home!"

So "brilliant" only Ezekiel Emmanuel and Jonathan Gruber could go for it.

Once written, twice... said...

Incandescent bulbs are less than 4% efficient. They mostly produce heat. The switch over to better technology has greatly reduced energy consumption and has contributed to making our country more energy self sufficient.

Original Mike said...

"Once written, twice...: "The only way an incandescent bulb could last twenty years is if you never turn it on."

I bought my house 23 years ago. I have two ceiling bulbs that get turned on everday (multiple times), that have never been changed.

Drago said...

Once written, twice...: "Incandescent bulbs are less than 4% efficient. They mostly produce heat. The switch over to better technology has greatly reduced energy consumption and has contributed to making our country more energy self sufficient."

Fracking has made us energy self-sufficient.

Not the light bulbs and not "inflating our tires".

Thanks for your input genius.

Fernandinande said...

"The Centennial Light was originally a 30-watt or 60-watt bulb but now is very dim, emitting about the same light as a 4-watt nightlight. The hand-blown, carbon-filament common light bulb was manufactured in Shelby, Ohio, by the Shelby Electric Company in the late 1890s; many just like it still exist and can be found functioning. According to Zylpha Bernal Beck, the bulb was donated to the Fire Department by her father, Dennis Bernal, in 1901."

Hagar said...

I believe there is that one single bulb by Edison's still shining.
Though admittedly that is not a very bright bulb.

Tari said...

I work in the tech industry and deal with this issue regularly. Customers who are on version 4 and we're about to release version 10? Yup. Customers who don't want to give up the site license given to them by some little bitty company we've acquired? All the time. The key word in "legacy customer" is "customer". A good business works to keep these customers as happy as any other customer ... while also trying to convince them that our interests and theirs align better when they move to the latest technology/pricing model/etc. 99% of the time, it works. Government intervention isn't needed - and it's almost insulting to the people who do this for a living to suggest so.

Nyamujal said...

The article seems to suggest that regulators should stop requiring companies to service legacy systems. Seems like a perfectly rational suggestion.
The author is also right about the switch from analog to digital TV. Radio spectrum is a very expensive commodity and freeing it up opens room for more disruptive technologies. A net positive IMHO.

Crimso said...

I have a fair amount of hearing loss. I realized a few years ago that it's not that distracting to read closed captions while watching things streaming on the net or on TV. As a result of this practice, I have found my recent watching of "Gomorrah" (Italian, with English subtitles) on Netflix to be a very smooth experience.

Once written, twice... said...

And of course the mandate for more energy efficient bulbs also pushed the market to develop better quality lightbulbs.

Remember that right wingers were against airbags and seat belts as well.

Achilles said...

Once written, twice... said...
"Ann, I remember a few years back that you were stockpiling incandescent lightbulbs because you did not like the new technology and the government telling you which lightbulbs to buy. A couple of questions...how do you think the the whole lightbulb thing worked out? How many incandescent bulbs do you have left?"

A product consumers are generally happy with. But general electric has a mew product! They claim it is better and it uses less energy. But lo consumers don't like it.

Easy fix for GE. Go get a bunch of democrat politicians you bought to ban a product people like that is made in the US primarily and force them to buy your product they don't like that you have made in China.

Sweet Chicken! Democrats and the oligarchs are always looking for ways to force people to make their lives better and make them rich.

Ambrose said...

Not all innovations stand the test of time. I am old enough to remember when we all wanted to drink Tang in the morning because that is what the Astronauts did. The "non-adopters — mostly older, rural and less-educated" stuck with that fresh-squeezed pulp-filled mess like our great grandparents in the old country might have done.

tim in vermont said...

They banned the older bulbs before LEDs were ready, so our landfills all got a nice bolus of mercury and lots of us still have those twisty bulbs that are supposed to be treated like hazardous waste if dropped on the floor.

Drago said...

Once written, twice...: "And of course the mandate for more energy efficient bulbs also pushed the market to develop better quality lightbulbs."

LOL

chickelit said...

How about the massive disruption caused by legacy voters who are somehow unable to obtain IDs, thus impeding voter ID laws. In counterpoint to the rural consumers identified in your article, such legacy voters are most often urban and non-white. What's up with their inability to reach 21st century standards of personal identity?

harryo said...

My mother got special garbage service and had a two party phone line.

The special garbage service, was when she put her garbage can out, senior citizens could pay by the load, and not by the month. It was almost a free service.

My brother took over the house, and kept that garbage service for years, until they finally figured out the name on the check was different. The jig was up, and he had to get a city dumpster issued to the house.

The two party line disappeared one day. Then a few years later the two party billing was removed, and my brother still has the same wall phone with the finger dialer.

In my dads old office room, there's a phone from the 30's that has a separate ear piece, a la Al Capone. My brother showed me how to hold it like Eliot Ness did. Works like a charm.

He says that people with cell phones are idiots. They don't appreciate quality voice over copper.

Fernandinande said...

buwaya said...
I have Rodinal in my veins.


Rodinal, yeah, for sharp grain and edge effects. But I got my veins flushed quite a few years ago and never looked back.

Drago said...

Achilles: "A product consumers are generally happy with. But general electric has a mew product! They claim it is better and it uses less energy. But lo consumers don't like it.

Easy fix for GE. Go get a bunch of democrat politicians you bought to ban a product people like that is made in the US primarily and force them to buy your product they don't like that you have made in China."

Shhh.

You are going to give noted business whiz kid "Once Written" a heart attack.

Drago said...

Once Written: "Remember that right wingers were against airbags and seat belts as well"

Tell us more about nuclear power and GMO.

Love to hear about the coming reversal of lefty political positions.

Take your time.

mockturtle said...

While I agree the compact fluorescent bulbs were a bad idea, LED lighting really is the way to go.

It is wise [and wisdom comes with age, does it not?] to wait before adopting a new technology, buying the first series of a new OS just as it is unwise to buy a new vehicle model. This is the main reason tech companies market to the young. They always go for the next new thing before it's been vetted.

tcrosse said...

Remember that right wingers were against airbags and seat belts as well.
Huh ?

tim in vermont said...

Anybody who stockpiled incandescent bulbs to carry them over until LEDs came along looks pretty smart. Besides, the government lied about how long they lasted.

Todd Galle said...

Just keep printing books and technology can go wherever it wants. I can't read books on a tablet or whatever. I work in the history field, and will often have several books and journal articles spread out over our library table. I can't imagine trying to do that on a computer or any other tech innovation.

Achilles said...

Once written, twice... said...
"And of course the mandate for more energy efficient bulbs also pushed the market to develop better quality lightbulbs."

There is no mandate for LEDs but they are superior to compact flourescents. And they have the added bonus of not being a dangerous HAZMAT accident when your kid breaks one.

But your crony masters at GE wanted to sell a dangerous product that had to be manufactured in China because making them is so environmentally destructive and companies here couldn't comply witn the laws. Now our landfills are filling up with mercury and a few other horrible things.

Good work at being a fucking hypocrite. Again. And again...

Lewis Wetzel said...

From Althouse's synopsis, I understand the following:
1) Progress is both good and inevitable.
2) The price of this progress is the loss of individual freedom.
3) The people who will lose their freedom are not you, and are not cool, so it's okay.

Hagar said...

I think I have also read an article that said the manufacturers went to work to develop a more efficient incandescent bulb when it became imperiled by the impending regulation and succeeded, but too late; the regulatory train was up to speed and could not be stopped. The legislation passed through Congress, and the improved incandescent bulbs are only another arcane historic curiosity.

Original Mike said...

Once written, twice...: "Incandescent bulbs are less than 4% efficient. They mostly produce heat."

And who would want heat in their house?

Todd Galle said...

Oh bye the bye, I still have a closet in the basement with incandescent bulbs. Easier by far to read by, and my eyes aren't what they were. I have trouble with the new stuff, and don't want to pay heaps of $ for LED.

Once written, twice... said...

Tcrosse--back in the day right-wingers said that government mandated airbags would kill the domestic auto industry.

tim in vermont said...

The reason liberals had to change the definition of fascism is because the original one hit a little too close to home. GE and the Democrats being a case in point.

AReasonableMan said...

Whatever happened to that guy Milo?

Once written, twice... said...

Original Mike -- there are better ways to produce heat in your house. And you do not want heat in your house during the summer and if you live in a warmer climate.

Michael K said...

"You are going to give noted business whiz kid "Once Written" a heart attack."

Thanks for the laugh. I had been following this thread down and you and Achilles beat me to every comment I was about to make.

It wasn't just Democrats. That asshole Fred Upton seems to be still polluting the Congress having brought the lightbulb Nazis to life as a GOP chair of a committee. I always wondered what his payoff was.

Like Ann, I stockpiled incandescent bulbs and have boxes of them in a closet in the garage of the new house.

The seller, who never did any maintenance, resulting in thousands of dollars in plumbing and electrician bills since we moved in, has all CFL bulbs which we will replace with our stock of "legacy" bulbs.

I see his ACLU mailings still coming so I have concluded that he is a clone of once written...

The politics, the light bulbs and the lack of any attempt at preventive maintenance seem to be related.

Once written, have you ever checked to see if the water shutoff valve to your house is frozen ?

Do you have GFI outlets in your kitchen and bathrooms ?

There's a trend there somewhere.

Jerry Brown is certainly an example in California.

Bob Boyd said...

Where does it end with this kind of thinking? Guys like this collect some numbers and they think they know everything they need to know. They're always talking about "we". There is no "we". It's a self-indulgent delusion. They want to do things for "the people" at the expense of the person.
Think of all these older, rural, less educated people still living in houses. Think of the waste. We all pay for that. Why not move them into high-rise complexes. It would be disruptive for sure, but that's a good thing, right?

harryo said...

I'm fully converted to LED bulbs. There's so little heat emitted now, that the heat pump has to search elsewhere. The buzz of the fluorescent light in the washroom a distant memory.

LED's are also cheaper (DC instead of AC). The problem is, that every year the minimum electric service charge goes up. Out at my farm, I get charged $25 a month if I use the electricity or not.

It's almost cost effective to just get a propane generator now. It will pay for itself in less than five years, and be immune to all the power outages they suffer out in the county.

tim in vermont said...

No, that sounds more like industry carping than some kind of political position of the right.

But that's OK, we know thinking and making distinctions is not a strong point with you.

Original Mike said...

"there are better ways to produce heat in your house. And you do not want heat in your house during the summer and if you live in a warmer climate."

But the "waste heat" does not go to waste. And I don't live in a warmer climate.

Fernandinande said...

tcrosse said...
"Remember that right wingers were against airbags and seat belts as well.
Huh ?


New Hampshire. The only state that doesn't ticket adults for not wearing seat belts.

Airbags are actually a danger to people who wear seat belts; "Airbags Kill More Kids Than School Shootings"
"Childs himself was charged with vehicular homicide.
The man's crime? He didn't switch off the airbag."

Bob Ellison said...

mockturtle said, "While I agree the compact fluorescent bulbs were a bad idea, LED lighting really is the way to go."

I second that. Mockturtle professes, with evidence, to know something about this.

I've got a bunch of light fixtures of various sorts in the house. LED beats everything in efficiency, and these days, LED has the right colors as well.

tim in vermont said...

You sure seem to miss him,ARM.

Once written, twice... said...

I am still laughing at the image of Ann's basement being filled with her stockpile of incandescent lightbulbs. I am sure every time she goes down there she declares "freedom!"

rehajm said...

Isn't the WaPoasaurus calling for it's own death here?

JaimeRoberto said...

Customers willingly bought incandescent bulbs that manufacturers willingly sold. Obviously that act of consensual commerce had to be stopped. Can't let people make their own decisions.

Original Mike said...

"Isn't the WaPoasaurus calling for it's own death here?"

Maybe they're trying to get the government to ban real newspapers, with generous compensation for business disruption of course.

Drago said...

AReasonableMan: "Whatever happened to that guy Milo?"

Oops. Wrong thread.

Ask your nurse to help you find the correct one.

tim in vermont said...

Freedom is slavery, right Once?

If we would all just submit, everyone would be happier, said every control freak ever.

And Once still refuses to acknowledge that LEDs were not available at the time of the ban, and the alternative that was not only sucked, but brought hazardous waste into one's home.

Achilles said...

Once written, twice... said...
'I am still laughing at the image of Ann's basement being filled with her stockpile of incandescent lightbulbs. I am sure every time she goes down there she declares "freedom!"'

Once written is all about taking away freedom at every opportunity. That is what fascists do.

Michael K said...

"It's almost cost effective to just get a propane generator now. "

I've thought the same thing. When we were looking at houses here, several had 4 or more acres of land which was attractive for a propane tank. We ended up closer in with only 1 acre but I've thought about it. If China kills off the Norks the risk of an EMP is probably much less.

LED may beat everything but not in price. GE just wanted to slough off that legacy low margin light bulb business and got Upton to push the enviros, like once written, to make a fuss about global warming.

It's about the Benjamins as usual.

Original Mike said...

Once wouldn't know freedom if it bit him in the ass.

Jay Vogt said...

. . . . ah nostalgia.

While it's true that most things digital are better than most things non-digital, I'm going to put squarely in the loss column, the demise of the old Western Electric Model(s) 500 and 2500 aka the standard issue home phones - rotary and push button respectively.

Phone conversations on those things were so warm and intimate and compelling that I pity those who can't even have a memory of that. And women, your voices were so so very sexy on those old lines. You could Tinder your brains out and not reach that level.

And b/t/w does that modern telecom network really support a rotary phone as the author seems to imply? I can't imagine that it does.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

XKCD comic

harryo said...

...LED has the right colors as well.

Yes. Although the blinding white is kind of neat. My wife has them on her bathroom mirror. She says putting on her makeup has been error free with those things.

Darrell said...

Ace Hardware--if you have one in your area--has a good LED bulb for $1. It's the 60W equivalent output size. It's instant-on, just like an incandescent.

AReasonableMan said...

Drago said...
Oops. Wrong thread.


Wasn't Milo going to light the way to a new era of non-PC? Whatever happened to that fellow Milo?

buwaya said...

Electric power generation in the US has always been fully "self sufficient". No change in "energy efficiency" has done anything for imports, because the vast majority of "energy" that the US imports is petroleum, which has not been in significant use for electric generation since the 1960s.
The US imports significant hydro-generated electricity from Canada, and natural gas also, but it always has, and more soon when NY decommissions its nuke.
To put it another way, "energy" is not simply "energy".
There should be a High School class, sort of an owners manual of modern society - where your energy, water, food and etc. comes from. Its amazing how ignorant people in advanced societies are about what keeps them alive.
And for that matter, "energy efficiency" is a stupid ideal.
This is engineering, everything is a tradeoff, there is a cost-benefit analysis for everything, and the basis for decision making should start with a TCO - total cost of ownership. The whole bureaucratic-legislative mandate on energy efficiency is an idiotic isolation of one factor to the exclusion of everything else. This is a typical failing of dirigiste bureaucratic systems. They are autistic.

Drago said...

ARM: "Wasn't Milo going to light the way to a new era of non-PC? Whatever happened to that fellow Milo?"

A valiant effort my friend, but not quite good enough to shift the thread topic.

Drago said...

Darrell: "Ace Hardware--if you have one in your area--has a good LED bulb for $1. It's the 60W equivalent output size. It's instant-on, just like an incandescent"

But only because of "Government!" and "You didn't build that!".


Drago said...

buwaya: "Electric power generation in the US has always been fully "self sufficient". No change in "energy efficiency" has done anything for imports, because the vast majority of "energy" that the US imports is petroleum, which has not been in significant use for electric generation since the 1960s."

I'm afraid you lost "Once Written" at "Electric power generation".

Drago said...

tim in Vermont: "And Once still refuses to acknowledge that LEDs were not available at the time of the ban, and the alternative that was not only sucked, but brought hazardous waste into one's home."

Timelines, cause and effect, correlation vs causation. These are all concepts that elude our would be masters on the left.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Incandescent bulbs are not dinosaur technology. LEDs and compact florescent bulbs have a place and time and that place and time is NOT in my home. Except for the ceiling light in the kitchen and one in the laundry room everything is incandescent. I can't remember the last time I had to replace a light bulb. Years!

When they (whoever "they" are) decided to phase out the incandescents we bought a case or more of several different watt bulbs. Also a case of rough service bulbs which we use for our business.

Because:
1. The light from the incandescent bulbs is much nicer. Comforting. Warm. compared to the harsh cold bluish lighting of the others.

2. LED bulbs are not able to be used on a dimmer switch. We bought several of these touch pad light dimmers They are great for reading in bed or just being able to have several levels of light from your 100 watt bulb.

3. The heat put off by the incandescent bulb is a great feature. On a cold night sitting under the reading lamp or knitting, that warmth is wonderful.

4. The heat from the bulbs is useful in pump houses and other places where the plumbing may be exposed to cold/freezing temps. Using a 100 watt bulb placed near the pipes or in the crawl space keeps the pipes from freezing. Is inexpensive and uses much less energy than an electric heater or other heat source.

Althouse said. I've never bought a single compact fluorescent bulb.

Ditto

Jay Vogt said...

Take a look at this sleek beauty

harryo said...

And b/t/w does that modern telecom network really support a rotary phone as the author seems to imply? I can't imagine that it does.

Yes. It does. The phone system has both analog and digital circuits. For home use, it is still analog to the customer, and digital everywhere else.

You can order a digital to your home. I had one and it was called ISDN, but was obsolete when Cable Modems came out. ISDN got you Internet at 64k and one analog phone line could be plugged in. On my system, the analog phone line was converted to 64k digital right at the router. It wasn't a vocoder like on cell phones, but raw 64k digital.

Fernandinande said...

Bob Ellison said...
LED has the right colors as well.


They have some spectrum spikes but they're much closer to "black body" radiation than fluorescent bulbs :
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/reviews/g164/incandescent-vs-compact-fluorescent-vs-led-ultimate-light-bulb-test/

Big Mike said...

No one has ever satisfactorily explained to me why the EPA has banned the use of relatively innocuous substances but okayed the use of CFL bulbs which release elemental mercury if accidentally broken. Mercury poisoning attacks the nervous system and is extremely dangerous to children. Fundamentally that had to have been a political decision not supported by genuine science.

Speaking of bulbs, in the closing days of the Obama administration a regulation was promulgated banning 3-way incandescent bulbs and globular incandescent bulbs -- two types that were explicitly exempted from the legislation outlawing high wattage incandescent bulbs. I hope that the GOP Congress will apply CRA to get rid of this turd that the Great Barack left behind because I didn't particularly stock up on 3-way bulbs assuming that the Obama administration would follow the law. Foolish me.

And speaking of genuine science, I see that 300 scientists signed a petition asking President Trump (I suppose I will someday tire of typing those two words together) to withdraw from the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). Here's the money quote: “Observations since the UNFCCC was written 25 years ago show that warming from increased atmospheric CO2 will be benign — much less than initial model predictions." Note that these are real scientists, not Michael Mann faux scientists. That's what you get when you base your "settled science" on poorly validated mathematical models.

Once written, twice... said...

Having to wear seat belts is not a lost of Freedom. Not being allowed to use a product that unnecessarily harms the physical environment that we all share is not a lost of Freedom.

There is room for being reasonable and thoughtful here.

Ann, enjoy your incandescent lightbulbs. But be sure to use them up in your life time. Your adult kids will discard them with your brown furniture.

Michael K said...

Ace Hardware--if you have one in your area--has a good LED bulb for $1.

Thanks. I might just get some. Save my incandescents t=for reading lamps.

The heat from the bulbs is useful in pump houses and other places

I used to use one when brewing my beer in winter. I had a 5 gallon crock and a reflector that just covered it. A 100 watt bulb and the brewing moved along even out on the back porch.

That was in medical school when quart beer bottles were still around. We would have bottle washing parties.

Michael K said...

"I didn't particularly stock up on 3-way bulbs assuming that the Obama administration would follow the law. Foolish me."

I did and hadn't even noticed.

Jay Vogt said...

. . . . harryo said... [w/r/t the telecom network supporting rotary phones} Yes. It does. The phone system has both analog and digital circuits. For home use, it is still analog to the customer, and digital everywhere else.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I smell the next hipster trend.

rhhardin said...

I edit everything with /bin/ed.

harryo said...

I remember when semi trailers didn't have to have a "Mansfield Bar."

Hagar said...

Why are American school busses built the way they are, unlike any other busses in the known world?
Because they are built according to detailed standards legislated by Congress, and that is where the technology was at the time the law was passed.

Remember "sealbeam" headlights?
Introduced in 1939 when it was a really good idea, and specified by law in 1940.
The rest of the world adopted performance laws, and headlamp technology steadily progressed, except in the U.S.A, where it remained frozen in place by Federal law, until the automotive world revolution of the late 1970's, and "The Big 3" went to Congress and pleaded to have the law rescinded so that they could stay competitive.

n.n said...

Change for the sake of change is inane. The legacy customers, the deplorables, are more discerning.

Once written, twice... said...

LED technology was in the pipeline. The mandate that lightbulbs would have to meet a higher efficiency rating also encourage a speed up in R&D and the transition by consumers to it. That was the whole point of the law.

It was a huge success.

Real American said...

if your product or service is better, people will adopt it. If it costs too much to provide to "resisters" then stop doing so. Government doesn't need to be involved in your business's customer service problems.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"there are better ways to produce heat in your house. And you do not want heat in your house during the summer and if you live in a warmer climate."

Yes. You can do as we do and have solar contribution coming through the windows. Even on a freezing day when the drapes are drawn, the blinds opened the warmth from the sun streaming in is amazing. We designed our home for this because we live in an area that has many sunny days..

Also the sky lights keep the great room (kitchen, dining, living, media) well lit all during the day. Other than over the stove or in one bathroom that doesn't get a lot of daylight, we hardly ever have to turn on a light fixture during the day.

We DON'T live in a warmer climate, so you can shove that idea where there is no solar contribution. I DO want the heat from the light bulbs and that is MY choice. We have about another 5 inches of snow on our deck this morning. Saving it all up for YOU Jerry Brown. Take that Moonbeam, when it all starts to melt get ready for more flooding....but I digress.

The issue is that the government dictating a one size fits all solution for everyone is the wrong tactic. If these bulbs or other technology is so great, then market forces will make the change over to the new technology as a natural course.

Michael K said...

Once written is still trying to justify a crony capitalist hit job that sent jobs to China and toxic waste into every home.

Keep going Once. This is how you get more Trump.

rhhardin said...

There are LEDs with acceptably warm light.

If you use air conditioning, you save double on electricty costs with LED bulbs.

Use the incandescents in heating season when they're free to run.

mockturtle said...

I second that. Mockturtle professes, with evidence, to know something about this.

Yes. My RV came with all LED installed. I will eventually convert my new house to all LED.

mockturtle said...

I also have enough solar on my RV roof to run all the lights, water pump and refrigerator as well as keep my electronics charged.

buwaya said...

Once...

What was not done was an energy impact or environmental impact analysis of CFL and similar alternatives to incandescents. Just using the energy balance calc of the lifetime of the devices would have greatly weakened if not negated the case.

Also, greater or lesser use of electricity has an environmental impact that can range from negligible to none. In Califirnia (and the whole US West Coast) for instance it has been "none" for 70 years, as the sort of generation in use here is next to zero emissions. There is zero environmental benefit in reducing electricity use, to balance against distuption and non-negligible environmental impacts of the attempts to improve "energy efficiency".

These decisions were improperly made. All such decisions, by their nature, are improperly made.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

And b/t/w does that modern telecom network really support a rotary phone as the author seems to imply? I can't imagine that it does.

Yes it does. We have a Trimline wall rotary phone hanging in our back bathroom. For a very practical purpose. When the power goes out, as it frequently does sometimes for days, and the digital phone batteries have failed or are failing, we can always make an emergency phone call.

The cell phone reception out in our "rural" area also isn't especially great. Many dead spots. During stormy weather...the rotary phone may be the only thing that works. Also there is that help I've fallen and can't get up feature for having it in the master bathroom :-)

Plus...it is funny, retro looking and makes people laugh when they see it.

Fernandinande said...

Hagar said...
Remember "sealbeam" headlights?


I looked into replacing the sealed beams on my old Jeep, but in reviews most people said the halogen replacement units were either the same or sometimes even dimmer (I'm pretty sure the element in the sealed beam is halogen anyway). LED headlight replacement costs too much.

ALP said...

My job has me involved in the hiring process for tech workers of all stripes, delving into job descriptions fairly deeply. So many tech workers are simply developing the next application designed to SELL you more stuff. Thus I am not surprised that older people, who have enough STUFF and that live in rural areas and thus don't have a need to get on Yelp to review the latest burger joint.

Larry, the author, seems very put out that some of us resist being sold to 24/7.

Once written, twice... said...

The law mandating more energy efficient bulbs passed in 2006. It did not require the switch over until the early/mid 2010s. It is not by coincidence that LEDs came on the market full force right at that time.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Once written,

Yes, why did the article skip write over compact fluorescents as though they never existed Is that not a serious, um, elision of the truth? There was nothing but CFLs to replace incandescents for years. Our own home is still riddled with them, though we have a few LEDs now. And they were, and are, frakkin' dangerous.

Incandescents may put out most of their energy as heat, but you say that like it's a bad thing. A lot of us want heat in winter. It's like what happened when traffic lights were replaced with LEDs: The snow that landed around the lights ... didn't melt any more. Or rather, it melted around the yellow lights (which were not replaced), but not around the red and green (which were not).

Achilles said...

Once written, twice... said...
"LED technology was in the pipeline. The mandate that lightbulbs would have to meet a higher efficiency rating also encourage a speed up in R&D and the transition by consumers to it. That was the whole point of the law."

An absolute lie you tell yourself and others to hide your fascist efforts.

"It was a huge success."

GE made billions and didn't have to pay taxesnon them because of green energy loopholes while they flooded our homes and landills with mercury.

That is crony leftist "success."

Achilles said...

Once written, twice... said...
"The law mandating more energy efficient bulbs passed in 2006. It did not require the switch over until the early/mid 2010s. It is not by coincidence that LEDs came on the market full force right at that time."

You are so pathetic.

buwaya said...

To add, these sorts of mandates amount to hidden taxes, far greater probably than the actual tax burden, that displaces private enterprise, reduces economic growth, reduces technolgical advance (and channels it into unregulated areas, like software - this explains a lot). And it reduces private employment.
It is an inefficiency.

Rusty said...

Ann Althouse said...
"How many incandescent bulbs do you have left?"

"I don't know. I rarely need to change a lightbulb. How come other people's lightbulbs are always burning out? I have incandescent bulbs that have been working for 20 years."

The higher the wattage the shorter the life span.I have a cieling fixture in our laundry roop that takes two lightbulbs. A couple of times year I would put in two 60 watt bulbs. Then it dawned on me to try two forties. Haven't changed it in two years.

Hagar said...

Ferdinande,
That is "old" as of today, and they do make halogen sealed beam headlights now for such vehicles as your "old" jeep.
The sealed beam headlights specified by law had incandescent bulbs inside them.

Jay Vogt said...

Achilles said...GE made billions and didn't have to pay taxesnon them because of green energy loopholes while they flooded our homes and landills with mercury.

THIS!

I'm surprised that this hasn't gotten more attention.

They use to say (and maybe still do) that the most innovative people at GE were in the tax department.

Kathryn51 said...

DBQ said: 4. The heat from the bulbs is useful in pump houses and other places where the plumbing may be exposed to cold/freezing temps. Using a 100 watt bulb placed near the pipes or in the crawl space keeps the pipes from freezing. Is inexpensive and uses much less energy than an electric heater or other heat source.


DBQ - sometimes I think our lives must be very similar. There is a teeny, tiny line in our wellhouse that will freeze up in a deep freeze even though the area is heavily insulated. The little light bulb keeps it running nicely - the one time we had a problem is when the light burned out (it is constantly on in the winter).

David Begley said...

The lightbulb thing was a government corporatist scam. Goverment orders LED only. LED bulbs cost way more. Higher gross profit for GE and Wal-Mart. Scam on top of the CAGW scam. I'm sure GE's lobbyists have the numbers.

Dude1394 said...

The removal of analog television IMO has not been nearly as great as advertised. I would bet that only a small percentage of folks even attempt to use an antenna anymore because unless they are on a pole outside 15-20 feet in the air, the signal is spotty at best.

Analog could be noisy, but at least it was there.

Seeing Red said...

One can never get away from politics.

My mother who is going to be 80 was having radiation!! a few years ago and when either my daughter or I took her, someone usually had to bring up politics!! but I did not want to talk politics!! my daughter did not want to talk politics!! so we had to shut them down rudely.

True story: my mother happens to love watching let's make a deal and the price is right. I grew up watching let's make a deal on Saturday nights. We live in a fairly wealthy area and elegant Boomer couple walks in; tall, thin, well-dressed, carrying the New York Times underneath the arm. sits down and because my mother was watching television --my mother had gone for her radiation treatment and it was still on -- and the male looked up and sniffed something like if you want to know why American public is getting more stupid it's shows like that so I replied well what can you expect? The boomers have been in control of education for 40 years. They got up and left.

I was more thin then, but my face looks young. I don't think they realized I was a tail-end Boomer addressing a 60s boomer. Gen X strikes back! Lolol

Hagar said...

"Betty Crocker specifications", i.e., specifying how things are to be made and with exactly what materials, are foolish to start with, and really bad when they get enshrined by legislation.

Performance specifications set goals and leave it to inventive minds and enterprising businesses to come up with the cheapest and most efficient way to achieve them.

Seeing Red said...

They want to get rid of 3-way bulbs.

I like those. I still use those!


Lots of incandescents. Especially 100 watt.

Virgil Hilts said...

One area where we have gone backward is sound. In our 20s all of us had great stereos with Klipsch speakers costing >=$XXXX. I assumed by time we were rich we would have systems costing >=$XXXXX. Instead we listen to degraded MP3s sent over bluetooth to a $400 Marshall system (which I do love BTW).
I think we just stopped really listening to music. Have not watched Captain Fantastic yet, but I'm betting the father still has a great sound system.

Seeing Red said...

I pay more for out landline.

We tried digital and went back for 2 reasons: clarity and don't need a back-up battery.

Achilles said...

It is time to mandate the end of newspapers and schools. The internet provides cheaper and far superior results. They are dinosaurs that should be extinct.

Lobbyists should be forced to adapt as well. Legislators can get in contact with as many constituents as they want cheaply and efficiently.

I am confused why the left government dominated industries aren't on Once Writtens list of things the government should force to modernize.

Hagar said...

I think I goofed. The whole "sealed beam" unit is/was the bulb with an incandescent element inside.

Fernandinande said...

Hagar said...
That is "old" as of today, and they do make halogen sealed beam headlights now for such vehicles as your "old" jeep.


"Old" = don't have nasty plastic headlight units that get scratched and turn yellow.

Unknown said...

LEDs are fascistic !!11111!!!!

David Begley said...

And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that those LED bulbs are made in China. Communist China.

harryo said...

I smell the next hipster trend.

Well, one bummer though, is that the rotary dial phones don't have a '*' or '#' option, and can't be used to bypass the customer service rep. So you have to talk to those old ladies in the basement.

When touch-tone first came out, I think it was like 100% increase in the phone bill. Our rich neighbors got it right away, along with a lighted princess phone for the wife.

I had a military surplus phone for awhile. It had an extra column of keys "P" Priority, "I" Intercept, "F" Flash, and "FO" Flash Overide. You could bypass long distance charges with some of those buttons pressed down at the same time - a la Steve Jobs.

Michael K said...

"The lightbulb thing was a government corporatist scam."

Absolutely ! The bullshit the leftists spread around may grow mushrooms but it doesn't hide the rotten deal that GE and Fred Upton pulled off.

I used LEDS in my sailboat because battery charge is quite limited there but they were inferior to the lightbulbs I used at home. I'm sure the same applies to RVs.

If LEDs are cheaper now, I may experiment with some in areas where reading is not the use.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Mr. Downes is welcome to open an Internet company and string a cable out to my rural home so I can sign up for his service. No other company wants to -- most likely because they would lose their shirts doing so. The last figure I saw was that broadband service needs at least 8 subscribing houses per mile to break even. On our road, I don't think we have 8 houses, subscribing or not.

And no, I don't think it's right for the rest of you to subsidize broadband service for me. I choose to live here. It's beautiful, and it's peaceful. It's just too remote for certain services.

Zach said...

A surprising amount of high technology uses obsolete components. I remember in college I worked for a summer in a scanning tunneling microscope lab, where the computer controlling the microscope ran on DOS.

Why? Because it already worked. And the absolute last thing you want to do with a million dollar instrument that took years to set up is to take it out of service.

John said...

How would you all feel about driving around in a car with a half stick of dynamite, on a hair trigger, about 12" from your face?

Not very happy, probably. I know I never have been.

That is why they call them "air bags". If they called them, correctly, high explosive pyrotechnic devices, the rubes would never have let them in their car.

The pellets that power the airbags are basically the same thing as powers the space shuttle. If you ever go to see Promontory Point in Utah, you will drive past the Morton Thiokol plant where they are made. You will see, way out in the desert, a bunch of individual small blockhouses. Each one houses a tablet compression machine to make the pellets. These blow up regularly.

I used to work for the company that made the presses. 1930's technology, all remotely operated by rods and pulleys. Old technology because it is cheap. Cheap because it is apt to get blown up.

Yeah. Us rubes really love us our "air bags".

John Henry

CWJ said...

Ideas so good, they have to be mandatory.

Michael K said...

"You could bypass long distance charges with some of those buttons pressed down at the same time - a la Steve Jobs."

Hey, when I was in college one of the guys in my fraternity had a set of the chimes for the old rotary pay phone in the fraternity house.

In those days, the operator knew you paid for the call from the sound of the chimes.

The phone company guy would come to collect and the coin box would be empty, A bunch of guys would stand around with blank expressions.

buwaya said...

They are.
Much US manufacturing pollution has been exported, in large part by regulation, to China and other countries.

harryo said...

And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that those LED bulbs are made in China. Communist China.

The diodes are for sure made in China, but the parts are probably assembled in Mongolia or Pakistan.

Michael K said...

"I choose to live here. It's beautiful, and it's peaceful. It's just too remote for certain services."

How about satellite ?

John said...

I have mostly incandescents in my house. A halogen reading lamp, tubular flourescents in my laundry room and office. Bought a bunch while still legal. Last year while exploring old abandoned bunkers at Roosevelt Roads my son and I ran across a trove of incandescent bulbs. He thought I was nuts but we carried all of them out of the bunker to the car. Don't know if they work, since they were not in boxes but I figured if they were bad, they would have been discarded.

I find incandescents last a pretty long time. I hope my stock outlasts me or President Trump legalizes them again.

John Henry

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

YoungHegelian said...

After folks started to discover what a pickle we'd all been left in with the CF bulbs (awful light, mercury exposure when broken), the engineers bailed us all out by coming out with LEDs instead. We were lucky that time.

And the engineers told them at the time that LEDs were coming. That they were already available, they worked better (and safer) than CFs, and they just needed time for production efficiencies to bring the prices down.

Congress didn't listen. It was too important to be seen as acting NOW. And to pay off their supporters in the business, especially GE.

Curse you, Fred Upton. I'm ashamed to have you as my Representative.

mezzrow said...

At age nine, I had true mastery of how to manipulate the aluminum foil on those old UHF bowtie antennas to get the best picture. That way, we could get four channels instead of three.

I'm just glad my Granny didn't think i was demon-possessed.

Michael K said...

"I hope my stock outlasts me or President Trump legalizes them again. "

The problem is that the GE and Philips manufacturing sites are gone. That was the point that Once will never understand.

It was low margin and they wanted out of the business. So, a domestic business shifted to a dangerous product made in China.

Then they bribed a Congressman to pass a law making incandescent bulbs illegal. California went faster than the federal rules so I had to hurry and order online to stock up. Jerry Brown was on the CFL case like he had stock in it.

Original Mike said...

"4. The heat from the bulbs is useful in pump houses and other places where the plumbing may be exposed to cold/freezing temps."

Ditto in the telescope mirror box (while in storage) to keep dew from forming on the mirror from daily temperature changes. Over time, dew will ruin the coating.

Earnest Prole said...

Irredeemable adj Not able to be saved, helped, or made better.

Irredeemables noun You know who you are . . .

CWJ said...

John Henry,

I wear my seat belt at all times. So I have always wondered what would happen to my glasses/eyes when the driver's air bag goes off.

John said...

I started using Eudora for email back in the early 90s, even before the web. Probably V.3. I worked my way up to V.7.1 before Qualcomm stopped releasing it. That was 2006 or 2007.

I've felt that I should upgrade and have tried a number of different email programs including Mulberry, Seamonkey, Thunderbird and others. I'd try them, Thunderbird for 3-4 months, but always wound up going back to Eudora. Don't get me started on Outlook. I used it for 4 years when I was teaching online for all school and student work. I despise it.

If anyone has other suggestions to try, I am all ears.

I held off upgrading my laptop for a year because I could not get one with Windows 7 and I had been told that Eudora would not work on 10. (It does. It gives me an error message on startup but I click through and it works fine)

I also use Act 2000 for all my contact management and client notes. I've looked at upgrading but there is nothing in the new versions worth $250 or so.

When I got my new laptop last year I tried to load my Office 2007 but Microsoft would not let me. I have a license I paid for but it is "obsolete" in the words of tech support. I have Office 2016 which I pay for monthly and which, with one or two exceptions, is NOT an improvement over 2007.

A great, free, Office suite is by Kingsoft. Word, Excel, PowerPoint, all free. I would have switched to it except that I sometimes have to run presentations on other peoples computers and was worried about compatibility.

I will jump on an upgrade in a heartbeat if it brings something new to the table. I love technology and am generally an early adopter. I generally like to have the newest gadgets. But too many of these "improvements" and "upgrades" are really not.

Once written, twice... said...

It is always a hoot to watch right wingers twist themselves in to knots coming up with conspiracy theories to explain alway obvious huge successes like the government led transition away from incandescent bulbs.

harryo said...

When STU-3 secure phones came out, we bought 20 of them to put in our planes COMSEC kits going overseas. Along with a laptop. The phones had a serial computer connection and you could do data transfers via crypto at 9600 baud to a BBS at headquarters to pass all the post-mission data (fuel quantity, flight hours for each crewmember, etc).

I was reading the crypto book and it had telephone numbers for every important place in the world. So there we were in Wadi Abu Shihat, with the phone hooked up to the telephone line in a Mig-21 bunker, and I called the White House.

A sergeant answered the phone, and I said I was in Egypt, and was wondering if this number really worked. He said "go secure" and I turned the key, and it said "White House" on the text display.

Anyway, the sergeant thought it was as neat as I did, that a secure phone worked in a Mig-21 bunker on the other side of the planet.

Then we got a satellite connection - uuf da!

John said...

Blogger CWJ said...

John Henry,

I wear my seat belt at all times. So I have always wondered what would happen to my glasses/eyes when the driver's air bag goes off.


"Wondered" or worried? I wear glasses and worry too. My understanding is that they are likely to be driven 1/4" into my skull. One more reason to wear a seat and shoulder belt.

ESPECIALLY in a car with airbags.

John Henry

Once written, twice... said...

And yes, airbags have saved millions of lives from death and serious injury. Sorry Althouse Hillbillies, you win by losing.

bagoh20 said...

I'm ready for the metric system. Age is only making the crazy English system harder every day. For example: a basic size of things in industry is 1/64 = 0.015625. I need 3 and half of those. Oh shit, where is my calculator, and my glasses, and a pencil. In metric 1/100 = 0.01. I need three and half of those. 0.035. Done. Lets take a lunch.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"Whatever happened to that guy Milo?"

Whatever happened to that gal Hillary? God bless you, ARM! That is never going to get old. Thanks!
On what planet are LEDs cheaper than incandescents? 60W obsolete illumination devices were four for a buck when the Left foisted the CFL disaster on us.

bagoh20 said...

Fracking: new, better, cheaper, safer, not mandated by government. In fact often banned.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Michael K said...
"I choose to live here. It's beautiful, and it's peaceful. It's just too remote for certain services."

How about satellite ?


Satellite is what I have. I find it... adequate. When the weather is good. But even then, the speed is iffy. And I have a bandwidth cap: 18GB per month. After that, it slows down, or I pay $10 per additional GB. So no NetFlix, et al., for me! And no cable, of course. I'm left with, yes, over-the-air digital TV. Or DVDs. I don't really feel I'm missing much. It gives me more writing time.

John said...

Michael K,

Do you know what it takes to make light bulbs? I do, having spent time in a couple of plants. Answer: Not very much.

Yes, the GE etc sites are gone but there are still plants making them in other parts of the world. The technology is not at all complex or tricky, is well known and well developed. Lots of the technology is still in use in other applications. The same machines that make glass vials for pharma products also make light bulbs. (Same type and builder) The same machines that make the bases for a variety of products make the bases for bulbs. Products similr to the tungsten filiment are widely produced.

I doubt the are any critical patents still in effect.

If they became legal, it would be fairly easy to build a plant that makes the bulbs. Even if only for a niche market of old pharts like you and me.

John Henry

Lewis Wetzel said...

Ah, yes. The "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007," which demonstrated to any person who still had doubts, that the GOP congress and president did not believe in consumer choice, free markets, or federalism.

Michael K said...

"obvious huge successes like the government led transition away from incandescent bulbs."

The loony let will never be weaned away from government.

Seat belts are good technology. I started to wear mine all the time when I took over running a trauma center. I thought it would be embarrassing to come in as a trauma and not have had my seat belt fastened.

The lap belts that were the original versions had a serious complication of colon ruptures in accidents with a significant G force.

The shoulder belts are better although they will break a clavicle and I have seen one carotid artery injury from one. Two probably as I can't recall if the other patient had his on. One I was able to fix wit no complication. The other older case had a catastrophic stroke from an embolus to his brain.

Air bags are more more problematic. I am certain that most cases of parents forgetting small children in cars are due to the presence of the air bag and the requirement that the kids be in the back seat. I can see a busy or forgetful parent forgetting a small child in the back seat. If the child was in the passenger front seat, as they were before air bags, it would be a very rare instance to forget the child was there.

As usual, Once written has no idea of what she/he is writing.

John said...

Cracker,

Should we just start referring to Crooked Hilary by her initials: SWWNBP

(She who will never be president)

I love typing that. It gets my fingers hard.

John Henry

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Using new technology JUST because it is new is not necessarily a good thing. Technology that works, that fits into your lifestyle and that doesn't unnecessarily complicate things is what I look for....... Screw Windows 10. I refused to be bullied into upgrading.

I don't have a cell phone or any need for a smart phone. IF I am going to use a cell phone, when we travel, then I'll buy some minutes on a phone that I have on my desk. That phone doesn't even have a phone number because I let it lapse and other than my husband, who is going to call me. Husband has a flip phone that he uses for work related calls even though he rarely has reception where he is at. NO TEXTING. Call me and leave a message.

I have a digital camera for quick convenient pictures. I may upgrade to one of those new digital SLRs someday soon.

We stream our viewing through the internet as we are lucky enough to be able to have a fast DSL connection through our land line/phone. Roku box. Direct TV satellite.

Love my Kindle Fire for reading books or to quickly check email, when traveling. Otherwise, I'll stick to 'real' books.....they don't need batteries.

The internet is one of the most amazing technologies in my lifetime. I've been "connected" since it was Usenet. Home computers have changed everything. Anyone else remember peek and poke?

Our vehicles are old school. Old tech. Other than my Blazer which is 15 years old, no computers. No digital anything. Did upgrade to electronic ignitions though. No airbags. Seatbelts in some of the trucks. The upside to the old tech, is that anyone can work on the cars. Doesn't require a computerized technician.

It isn't that I am anti technology. I'm discriminating about what I want to use and what works for ME!

Big Mike said...

And yes, airbags have saved millions of lives from death and serious injury.

Well, except for the people, especially children, who died because of the airbag in minor accidents that were otherwise perfectly survivable.

It [legislation banning incandescents when the only alternative was CFLs] was a huge success.

This is one of the more quaint notions from the lefty loonies, that all you have to do to get something is to mandate it by law. The notion that there might be a lot of engineering and even basic science that someone has to pay for -- usually ordinary consumers -- doesn't register with them.

Michael K said...

"it would be fairly easy to build a plant that makes the bulbs. Even if only for a niche market of old pharts like you and me."

We can only hope that this will be a Trump rule change.

buwaya said...

Once...

Is much like the left since the 1960s.
There is no engagement, no argument, no facts, no nothing.
Empty people, empty minds, empty thoughts. No creativity and no curiosity. Barely human really.
All there is is worship of power and emotion.

This is the result of hopelessly defective education and socialization.

Michael K said...

"This is the result of hopelessly defective education and socialization."

I think this is a big part of it.

However, I have a very bright daughter who thinks Trump will be impeached.

I doubt she has given any thought to the details but it is what she hears from friends and coworkers where she lives.

She is the only one of my lefty kids that I can talk to about politics.

For example, she was exercised a couple of years ago about some Texas school board that required creation teaching along with evolution.

I asked her what she thought was more important, evolution or reading and math ?

She agreed that reading and math were more important.

I'm not sure Once written could come to the same conclusion.

CWJ said...

Once written, twice...,

I ask a very specific question, and get an answer from the commenter I addressed. And you just have to chime in with an overly broad comment with a gratuitous "hillbilly" slap at the end. BTW, I'd like to see the math behind that "millioms" claim.

John said...


Our vehicles are old school. Old tech. Other than my Blazer which is 15 years old, no computers. No digital anything. Did upgrade to electronic ignitions though. No airbags. Seatbelts in some of the trucks. The upside to the old tech, is that anyone can work on the cars. Doesn't require a computerized technician.


That's another peeve of mine. As you travel around the US on the interstates you will see poles every few miles with a solar panel, a control box and a round (generally) Sphere.

Ever wonder what those are or what they do?

They monitor Bluetooth devices such as phones, tablets, car radios and so on. They detect and store the MAC address. They then compare when a MAC passed one device and how long it took to get to the next one. Strictly in the interest of maintaining traffic flow. They are all over cities as well but much harder to spot.

Your MAC address is you. If I have a MAC address and access to the telephone carrier, I can find out when you passed a certain point. Or I can figure out who you were with since I have all the MAC addresses in the car. I can figure out what car it was since the car's MAC is registered by the manufacturer.

I think the company that makes most of these is called Tall Oak Technology in Texas but may be misremembering. I'll be happy to find the URL for anyone who wants more info.

Perhaps I am just paranoid. This is for my own good, right?

Or perhaps I am not paranoid enough since I still carry my cell phone and have not ripped the radio from my car.

John Henry

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

John said...
Blogger CWJ said...

John Henry,

I wear my seat belt at all times. So I have always wondered what would happen to my glasses/eyes when the driver's air bag goes off.


"Wondered" or worried? I wear glasses and worry too. My understanding is that they are likely to be driven 1/4" into my skull. One more reason to wear a seat and shoulder belt.

ESPECIALLY in a car with airbags.


Every case is different, of course. In my car-deer accident a year or so ago, I don't think the air bags actually reached my face. At least I don't remember any contact. And my hands on the wheel had some minor rash from the chemicals, but there was none on my face.

This of course raises the question of what good the air bags were...

harryo said...

Martin L. Shoemaker said......string a cable out to my rural home...

Maybe look into a Cell Booster and get/improve Cell data.

Cell Booster

CWJ said...

Martin,

Thank you for the first hand experience. That's somewhat reassuring.

Michael K said...

I bought a cell "booster" from Verizon for some significant bucks when I lived in a sort of valley in California and it did nothing to help the crappy reception.

I'm now in Arizona and the reception seems to be better although I have not set up my "booster" yet,

harryo said...

Michael K said...I bought a cell "booster" from Verizon for some significant bucks when I lived in a sort of valley in California and it did nothing to help the crappy reception.

Luckily I had good data at the farm with the regular antenna, so no experience here, but the one I pointed to has a directional antenna. I see some come with an omni. I would think the directional antenna would be the better choice (more gain where you need it).

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

harryo said...
Martin L. Shoemaker said......string a cable out to my rural home...

Maybe look into a Cell Booster and get/improve Cell data.

Cell Booster


Thanks! I had one for Verizon, which has generally the best cell signal here. It made the signal usable. I was able to telecommute with it. But it didn't really bring it up to broadband. The satellite service was an improvement.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

harryo said...

Luckily I had good data at the farm with the regular antenna, so no experience here, but the one I pointed to has a directional antenna. I see some come with an omni. I would think the directional antenna would be the better choice (more gain where you need it).

My overachieving brother built a communications tower to get his antenna above the edge of the shallow valley he lives in. I'm not that ambitious!

Original Mike said...

"And b/t/w does that modern telecom network really support a rotary phone as the author seems to imply? I can't imagine that it does."

My 37 year old rotary works like a champ.

harryo said...

My overachieving brother built a communications tower to get his antenna above the edge of the shallow valley he lives in.

Yea, lightning, high winds, tornadoes, and ice storms kind of shy me away from that, but up on the side of the barn would be OK.

I still find pieces of my neighbors windmill during plowing.

Seeing Red said...

Airbags -my first broken bone ever and permanent scar.

It looked like the Nike Swoosh when I first got it.


Airbags are a danger to mostly females SEXIST! My height.

Darrell said...

Anyone else remember peek and poke?

Yeah. When you went into the closet after spin the bottle. Right?

Once written, twice... said...

Seeing Red, how bad of a crash where you in? Would your injuries been worse without airbag deployment?

Does anyone really believe that airbags have not greatly increase the safety of cars overall?

Static Ping said...

Back during the build up to Y2K, it was my job to contact various vendors and get confirmation that they were Y2K compatible. One of the vendors was a pig farmer. He replied back that they did not have a computer, so therefore they were Y2K ready by default. It was one of the most amusing business letters I have ever had the pleasure to read.

CWJ said...

Once written, twice...,

Wow! Just wow. Not even a sorry about your broken bone and scar before launching into a deconstruction of seeing red's experience? I get it, you have a point to make, but she related a personal experience. She didn't attack airbags in general. What's wrong with you?

Carol said...

I'm surprised how much less computer-literate people are now than 10 years ago. They use their phones for everything and don't even bother with PCs anymore.

I know they can do lots on the phones but most don't bother, like setting up online accounts to make it easier to get tax documents.

Paco Wové said...

It isn't that I am anti technology. I'm discriminating about what I want to use and what works for ME!

Along those lines, this is an interesting account (well, I was interested) about how the Amish decide how to adopt new technologies. It's a lot more complex than just a blanket rejection of modern stuff.

Once written, twice... said...

CWJ, stop being such a snowflake.

Seeing Red, I hope you are well healed from your long ago broken bone.

Better CWJ?

John said...

Static Ping,

Back in 1999 I sold, as an add on to a machine, a small device to separate bottles. Very simple, completely mechanical and self-powered. No electricity, battery, air or any other power source.

The client, a major pharma company, insisted on a certificate from the manufacturer that it was Y2K compliant. I tried to explain that it was not needed and the engineer agreed. Company policy required it, though.

My principal charged them $500 for the certificate and they paid without complaint. In a gadget that cost no more than $1500 or so. We called it a stupidity tax. Not to the client's face, of course.

I got my 10% commission on it so can't complain. I still think it was stupid.

And I do remember peek and poke from my Commodore VIC-20 days.

John Henry

Big Mike said...

Does anyone really believe that airbags have not greatly increase the safety of cars overall?

There's a "yes" to that, but also a "no." From the list of people saved one needs to decide how to handle the people who would have died without airbags, but were left with extreme injuries and in many cases left crippled for life. You definitely need to subtract the children and short women who should have survived the accident but were killed by the airbag itself. The most appalling thing is how Joan Claybrook's NHTSA chose ignore warnings of the dangers of airbags, but were blown off because Claybrook personally didn't like the source of the warnings -- the auto manufacturers. No follow-up studies, no scrutiny of their results, they're auto manufacturers so ignore their warnings. That's part and parcel of the anti-scientific approach to science taken by left-wing Democrats -- attack the source, don't bother looking at the result.

Claybrook will be 80 years old this summer; that's seventy more years of life than one of her victims.

CWJ said...

Once written, twice...,

She said nothing about it being long ago. But you needed a total stranger to remind you to show minimal empathy over politics. Snowflake? Then you don't know me either. I consciously shy away from the ad hominem, but you're a jerk. In the several years I've watched you comment here, you've added nothing beyond being a jerk. I really wonder what hole in your life it is that you are trying to fill by coming here and consistently being an anonymous jerk on this site.

John said...

Michael K: To the question of who would make the bulbs, apparently somebody still is.

I just looked on AliBaba for incandescent bulbs. They are available in various wattages, including 60 and 100 (110VAC) for prices of 6 to 10 cents each. FOB China so good luck getting them through customs.

For those not familiar, AliBaba is a combination Amazon/EBay/Wholesale site in China.

They have promised President Trump to build a big operation in the US. I think the figure was $50bn or so. I've never bought anything but they are interesting to noodle around it.

John Henry

John said...

Big Mike,

If one is properly wearing a seatbelt and shoulderbelt, does a pyrobag save many lives at all?

Someone, sorry I forget who, said they were involved in an pyrobag deployment but the seatbelt prevented them from making contact with it.

As I remember the big argument over pyrobags in the 80s, it was mainly to save the people who didn't wear seatbelts.

Nobody has mentioned the insurance angle yet. Pyrobags are so expensive to replace that insurance companies routinely total a car where they deploy, even if the other damage is relatively minor.

That could probably be fixed if there were 3-4 standard, modular, designs rather than each car design having a custom pyrobag design.

John Henry

John Henry

google is evil said...

"To overcome the inertia of legacy customers, it may be appropriate for governments to step in." What a asshole. Another elitist who wants not only to tell people how they should live, but use the violent power of Government to force them. And they say Trump is a fascist! Doctor heal yourself.

CWJ said...

Big Mike,

There are many things that have contributed to increased auto safety since the '80s. In addition to airbags, there Are front and rear crumple zones and reinforced doors. Blithely saying that any one of these saved X lives like "Once" wants to do is simplistic. Your caveats regarding air bags are noted, and I agree, but I can't bring myself to say that airbags, particularly the side impact variety, aren't a net plus. Still I think three point seatbelts are probably the greatest positive contributor.

Once written, twice... said...

Of course there are other safety improvements the government (the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) has encouraged and ultimately mandated over the years. It is difficult to assign improved safety to any one improvement. But there is no doubt that autos are much more safe than even just twenty years ago.

Unknown said...

"I really wonder what hole in your life it is that you are trying to fill by coming here and consistently being an anonymous jerk on this site."

To CWJ....
Seems like Once Written is as much of an "anonymous jerk" as you are. How does anyone know from your profile, any more than than they know from Once Written's? LOL!

Michael K said...

"Does anyone really believe that airbags have not greatly increase the safety of cars overall?"

No, I don't think so. Seat belts have been a big aid with the caveats I noted.

Air bags have probably killed as many people as they saved.

A 25 mile per hour speed limit would be much better at saving lives.

Left wingers are useless in assessing risk.

Drago said...

Once written, twice...: "Of course there are other safety improvements the government (the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) has encouraged and ultimately mandated over the years. It is difficult to assign improved safety to any one improvement. But there is no doubt that autos are much more safe than even just twenty years ago."

This is precisely the sort of static and incomplete analysis one would expect from a leftist.

In order to understand the totality of the impacts in the "real world" driven (pun intended) by all relevant government regulations, including mandated fuel standards for passenger vehicles, we need to incorporate the CAFE standards as well into the equation.

And here is where the lefties have fallen down again with unintended consequences.

http://wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/fall-2014-mexican-momentum/do-fuel-efficient-cars-increase-traffic-fatalities/

snip: "But there is a downside to smaller, more efficient fleets of cars: a higher risk of deadly traffic accidents. According to Mark R. Jacobsen, an economist at the University of California, San Diego, “Each one mpg increase in CAFE standards causes an additional 149 fatalities per year.”

In other words, the increase in fuel-efficiency requirements that began in 1978 will translate into 2,533 more deaths on the road in 2016."

But lefties get to feel better about themselves and their AGW fantasies so those 2,533 more deaths per year are worth it. Especially if Leo DiCaprio can zoom in on his private jet to commune with his fellow lefties at some conference somewhere.

Peter Irons said...

Yes, newspapers are definitely old technology. Perhaps the government should ban them. I would be very glad to have the NYThemes and the WashPreposterous go out of existence except on the web, where they would never be able to compete.

CWJ said...

Unknown@5:16,

Now that's funny. Is that you, Once? I comment on substance, but you with no profile, fixate on profile. Odd that this unknown who had nothing to say earlier arrives just now. Please.

dda6ga dda6ga said...

"It is difficult to assign improved" Stock government/NGO phrase when asked to justify spending my tax money..

Gospace said...

Ann Althouse said...

I don't know. I rarely need to change a lightbulb. How come other people's lightbulbs are always burning out? I have incandescent bulbs that have been working for 20 years.


Check your house voltage. I'll bet it's closer to 110V then 120V. My outlets are 123V most of the time. That small difference in voltage makes a HUGE difference in incandescent bulb lifetimes. There are 130V bulbs available for industrial use. Often used in 120V systems where people infrequently go and changing bulbs is a nuisance, like steam tunnels or high overhead lights. At 120V they last a long time.

On compact fluorescents- some did last a long time. Went to a 6 hour class on lighting by a Phillips representative. Had a sawed off Phillips Earthlight rated at 60W equivalent along with a much cheaper Chinese bulb with the same rating. The quality difference in the internal electronics was visible to the naked eye. But buried in the bulb and not visible to the average consumer. What they saw was Phillips- $12, cheap Chinese import- $3. Looked identical on the outside. That's why compact fluorescents got a bad rep for not lasting as long. Quality and longevity both cost. Same thing is happening in LED bulbs. Most are not lasting their advertised lifetime because of cheap not visible electronics.

For the record, I was an early LED adopter. I have 3 Halogen incandescent bulbs left, because they were installed in infrequently lit hard to get to fixtures, and they're still working. At my previous home, before compact fluorescents, all my bulbs were Halogen, more efficient and longer lasting then regular incandescent. Also, I like the brighter harsher light. So when I buy LEDs, they're the daylight variety.

As far as us rural people not wanting to use the latest in technology? WTH? We'd all love to. Well, not the Amish in the area, but the rest of us. A single 4G tower dropped in the middle of our local phone company service area would be able to handle all the area's internet services faster then the DSL I've got now. I got the DSL in 2012. The local phone company had promised it by December 2000 when I moved here. They have a state grant to upgrade their service area to fiber optic. I figure there'll be a major SHTF event before they get around to it. There are companies (Clearwire is one) that put up towers dedicated to wireless internet. They put them in cities and suburban areas already saturated with cable and fib optic availability. I call that decision a failure of vision. They should have looked for unserved rural areas that would have flocked to their service.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"Millions of lives"

Leftists struggle with statistics. I'm guessing once written is about 19.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Gospace said...

There are companies (Clearwire is one) that put up towers dedicated to wireless internet. They put them in cities and suburban areas already saturated with cable and fib optic availability. I call that decision a failure of vision. They should have looked for unserved rural areas that would have flocked to their service.

In Michigan, we have FreedomNet providing such a service. They're almost following your plan. Though they do cover the Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and Holland metro areas, they also cover two vast swathes of rural and semi-rural territory. My brother has their service. It is cheaper, faster, and more reliable than my satellite service. Unfortunately for me, their coverage doesn't extend this far out into the country.

SukieTawdry said...

I have a lifetime supply of incandescent light bulbs, two turntables and a large collection of vinyl. I'm only five feet tall, so in the event of an accident, it's a coin toss whether I'm killed by the impact of the airbag or decapitated by the seat belt. I can watch Netflix, Amazon, YouTube and Hulu on my smart TV, though.

The Bear said...

"The principle of slavery is in itself right, and does not depend on difference of complexion", "Nature has made the weak in mind or body slaves ... The wise and virtuous, the strong in body and mind, are born to command", and "The Declaration of Independence is exuberantly false, and aborescently fallacious."

"nineteen out of every twenty individuals have... a natural and inalienable right to be slaves."

"It is the duty of society to protect the weak;" but protection cannot be efficient without the power of control; therefore, "It is the duty of society to enslave the weak."

George Fitzhugh - America's First Socialist. Slavery Apologist. 1806 - 1881.



Unknown said...

Technological dinosaur? Srsly, lava lamps won't work without an incandescent lamp. And, yes I'm looking at one right now.