February 23, 2017

"Mr. Sessions, who has opposed expanding gay, lesbian and transgender rights, pushed Ms. DeVos to relent."

"After getting nowhere, he took his objections to the White House because he could not go forward without her consent. Mr. Trump sided with his attorney general... and told Ms. DeVos in a meeting in the Oval Office on Tuesday that he wanted her to drop her opposition. And Ms. DeVos, faced with the alternative of resigning or defying the president, agreed to go along. Ms. DeVos’s unease was evident in a strongly worded statement she released on Wednesday night, in which she said she considered it a 'moral obligation' for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment. She said she had directed the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights to investigate all claims of such treatment 'against those who are most vulnerable in our schools,' but also argued that bathroom access was not a federal matter...."

From "Trump Rescinds Rules on Bathrooms for Transgender Students" (in the NYT).

120 comments:

rhhardin said...

What is it with women.

sunsong said...

The far right theocrats feeling their oats....

Balfegor said...

The interesting thing to me, in that excerpt, is that contrary to the earliest reports from the Trump administration, it sounds like cabinet officials are getting the opportunity to weigh in substantively on executive orders that affect their departments. Course corrected, I guess.

Achilles said...

The women with men's parts wouldn't have been in her bathrooms. Just the poor women's bathroom just like the bathrooms Obama's daughters would use wouldn't be inconvenienced.

And the goal of division and strife is attained. Constantly inserting the government into the most private aspects of life and forcing us to argue over essentially nothing.

Achilles said...

sunsong said...
The far right theocrats feeling their oats....

So it is far right for people with penis's to go in one room to pee and people with vagina's to go in another room to pee.

This is how absurd the left is and they can't even figure out why they are losing elections.

Quayle said...

"but also argued that bathroom access was not a federal matter...."

Argued to whom?

Trump and Sessions? I'm guessing they know that, which is why they rescinded the federal regulation.

(Also, this is the fly-on-the wall posture of the NYT. Reader beware!)

Michael K said...

"The far right theocrats feeling their oats...."

Dr Sunsong, sex expert weighs in.

Not all sex experts agree with Dr Sunsong

In standard medical and psychological practice, a child who has a persistent, mistaken belief that is inconsistent with reality is not encouraged in his or her belief. For instance, an anorexic child is not encouraged to lose weight. She is not treated with liposuction; instead, she is encouraged to align her belief with reality – i.e., to see herself as she really is. Indeed, this approach is not just a good guide to sound medical practice. It is common sense.

Until recently this was precisely how gender dysphoric children were treated. Dr. Kenneth Zucker, long acknowledged as one of the foremost authorities on gender dysphoria in children, spent years helping his patients align their subjective gender identity with their objective biological sex. He used psychosocial treatments (talk therapy, organized play dates, and family counseling) to treat gender dysphoria and had much success.


Johns Hopkins had the first sex change clinic in the US. It was closed a few years ago after they saw the results of this practice. A lot of their patients returned wanting to be changed back to the original sex. They saw lots of psychological problems including suicides.

They closed the clinic a few years ago.

MikeR said...

"And Ms. DeVos, faced with the alternative of resigning or defying the president, agreed to go along. Ms. DeVos’s unease was evident in a strongly worded statement..." Is there any reason for me to trust the NYT's spin on this story. Her statement shows no unease as far as I can see. People's right should be protected but that doesn't mean that the federal government needs to force an issue that isn't worth it.
Where do we see that she ever considered resigning?
Do we have any indication that she ever weighed in on protecting the transgendered in the voucher schools she's been involved with?

Unless there is more evidence, here's my take:
1) The NYT is reporting on a major defeat for social justice warriors. They don't like doing that.
2) They want it to seem like sensible people agree with them. Indeed, even right-wing loonies like DeVos really agree with them!
3) The Trump administration is in chaos, with top people constantly on the verge of resigning.
4) When they don't resign, it's because they're spineless jellyfish who abandoned their principles.

hawkeyedjb said...

As our hostess is an esteemed prof of constitutional law, perhaps she could help us here. Is restroom management one of the enumerated powers of the federal government? Or is this a power reserved to the states, or to the people?

BDNYC said...

What do gay and lesbian rights have to do with transgender rights? If I were gay, it would annoy me if my rights were lumped together with transgender rights. The two classes of people really share nothing in common besides being abnormal and marginalized by society. There are far more gays than transgenders, and frankly there is an enormous difference between sexual orientation and extreme body dysmorphia, which is a recognized mental illness.

robinintn said...

Wait. The same literally Hitler who must be stopped at any cost now turns out tosupport the perv perfect cover order? Whiplash.

YoungHegelian said...

From the NYT article:

overruling his own education secretary and placing his administration firmly in the middle of the culture wars that many Republicans have tried to leave behind.

Maybe David Brooks wants to leave this aspect of the culture wars behind, but the rest of the Republican base sees the Feds mandating that "chicks with dicks" peeing in the ladies room as a major offense to human reason.

This will be very popular with the majority of the Republican Party faithful. It will also make the Democrats froth at the mouth, which will endear it to the Republican base even more.

exiledonmainstreet said...

MikeR, I think you have it right.

I don't trust anything the NY Times or WaPo reports about this administration.

Lucien said...

Isn't this the way it's supposed to work:Cabinet officials state their positions regarding significant issues affecting their departments and either a) reach consensus, or b)present their differences to the Chief Executive, who then makes the final decision?

Sydney said...

What do gay and lesbian rights have to do with transgender rights?

I am beginning to suspect that some of the new transgenderism is really coming from gay and lesbians who are uncomfortable being gay and lesbian and want to transfigure themselves into the opposite sex to feel more comfortable in society.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

hawkeyedjb said...

As our hostess is an esteemed prof of constitutional law, perhaps she could help us here. Is restroom management one of the enumerated powers of the federal government?

Restroom management is not. Ensuring Equal Protection is. ( Thanks the the 14th amendment. )

Of course, that opens the debate as to what constitutes equal protection. Do you equally protect everyone getting to use the bathroom that matches their plumbing, or do yo equally protect everyone getting to use the bathroom that matches the gender they perceive themselves to be?

MikeR said...

"even as many in the party argue that it is time to move away from social issues and focus more on bread-and-butter pocketbook concerns." Kidding, right? Because most conservatives think that gay marriage is no longer a useful political issue, therefore we should cede any insane thing that SJWs come up with? After all, allowing the transgendered into the wrong bathrooms is probably one of those issues where the religious fanatics have been on the wrong side of the American public's views for decades now. When will they learn?

Hagar said...

I rather suspect that most of this come from people who are neither gay nor lesbian nor transgender, but try to imagine what that may be like; and in any case it is useful for virtue signaling to other gentry liberals regardless of what these weirdos may or may not want.

Hari said...

"overruling his own education secretary and placing his administration firmly in the middle of the culture wars that many Republicans have tried to leave behind."

As opposed to "overruling his own attorney general and placing his administration firmly in the middle of the culture wars that many Republicans have tried to leave behind."

Quayle said...

"As our hostess is an esteemed prof of constitutional law, perhaps she could help us here. Is restroom management one of the enumerated powers of the federal government? Or is this a power reserved to the states, or to the people?

Or to the man or woman in Paris scowling at us for a Franc? That's what you get when you let an impure blood soak your fields.

Lance said...

How can the NYT possibly report all the back-and-forth stuff without attributing it to a source? There's fake news, and then there's bad journalism.

Amadeus 48 said...

Sorry. The NYT took itself out of the running to be a trustworthy source of news years ago.

Angel-Dyne said...

sunsong: The far right theocrats feeling their oats....

Ah, that brief period between the hopeful spring of 2016 and the dark winter of 2017 when America wasn't a theocracy.

Sebastian said...

So if I understand the current lefty position correctly, they want to get government out of the bedroom but into the bathroom.

Martin said...

Who is the leaker?

It would be a shame to have to fire DeVos or Sessions after all they went through to confirm them, but if either leaked or approved a leak, best be done quickly. If they didn't, find out who did (if Sessions or DeVos can) and terminate them.

And it is hard to believe that DeVos was nominated without this matter having been discussed and resolved before they ever broached her name... or, is someone lying?

And, finally, WTF does it mean that she will have DOE investigate any problems, but this is not a Federal matter? It either is or it isn't...

Maybe this is what you get when you pick a 1-trick pony (K-12 school choice) from a small pool. But still, that she got this far w/o this matter having been resolved smells all wrong, there is something more going on.

Majestyk said...

So, according to sunsong, only "far right theocrats" would oppose having biologically male persons using the men's restroom and biologically female persons using the women's restroom. In other words, up until just last year, the U.S. was a "far right theocracy." Who knew?

Yet another example of far left dishonesty.

Todd said...

Lance said...
How can the NYT possibly report all the back-and-forth stuff without attributing it to a source? There's fake news, and then there's bad journalism.

2/23/17, 10:47 AM


The NYT, home to fake news AND bad journalism. I think the reporters must get a bonus if they can combine both in the same story as it occurs so often...

traditionalguy said...

DeVos knows this is not the hill to die on. How much harm can a gender neutral toilette in a school do anyway.

It must be important for some reason. Maybe its because Trans people were not born that way and we refuse to allow them to live a lie.

Why not let them live it.

mockturtle said...

Great grumbling toads! Schoolkids should not be 'transgender' for the same reason they should not have sex with adults. They are still in a formative time of life. When I was very young I went through a phase when I wanted to be Japanese. Then, in eighth grade, I wanted to be a Catholic and got all romantic about becoming a nun. My best friend and I bought rosaries. Then I wished I were Jewish. [Anything other than the WASP that I was]. There are some kids, especially those in single-gender boarding schools, who experiment with same-sex encounters. This does not make them gay. Most of them grow up straight.

The problem is that we are treating children as if they were adults and they are not.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Martin, the entire story smells like a dirty bathroom to me. But an entirely gender-neutral one.

Jack Wayne said...

If Trump is the Machiavelli that the Left portrays, then this is deliberately planted fake news. Maybe now the lefties will relent and DeVos can go about her business without a US Marshal escort?

Angel-Dyne said...

tradguy: It must be important for some reason. Maybe its because Trans people were not born that way and we refuse to allow them to live a lie.

Why not let them live it.


Because they require that the rest of us become liars.

Seeing Red said...

So sun, my very pretty 19 y o daughter had a 6' bearded make follow her into the women's bathroom in college.

How do you explain, especially since there is by all the articles and diktats from the USG on college rape stats, that she should have been ok with this, especially since there was no one else in the bathroom?



Pkace explain to us females why we should have to consistently put ourselves or MY DAUGHTER in danger so you can feel good and tolerant about yourself?


My daughter, who has been hit on since high school by married men, divorced men, and men her father's age and up?

It's gotten so bad at the gas station she frequents, that they've told a customer not to come back.

They watch out for her, which is why she goes there.

Safe space bullshit except in bathrooms.


n.n said...

They are all in the transgender spectrum, but only crossovers receive physical and psychiatric therapy. Also, crossovers are clearly more trans-social, including violation of safe spaces of prepubescent girls and boys. The progress since establishment of the Pro-Choice Church, followed by corruption of science and deprecation of The Hippocratic Oath, has been remarkable.

n.n said...

Sessions does not oppose transgender rights. He opposes "=" or selective exclusion, and other super privileged states.

sunsong said...

Dr Sunsong, sex expert weighs in.

Whatever happened with that diagnosis of Parkinson's Disease you pushed on Hillary before the election? :-)

exiledonmainstreet said...

mockturtle, I was what used to be quaintly called a "tomboy" a phase which lasted until I got assigned a desk next to the cutest boy in the whole school and he told me "you're not bad for a girl." My heart stopped at that declaration of love and I spend a considerable amount of homework time drawing little hearts with our names in them.

If today's gender police had gotten ahold of me when I was still in full tomboy mode, I shudder to think of what would have become of me.

Unknown said...

It appears as if Trump wasn't to be trusted on LGBT rights as some may have believed. I recall during the campaign certain people thought he was being "cagey" when he spoke about LGBT rights. Yes he was being cagey, but not in the way Althouse appeared to think. Sessions has his ear and Sessions is a known to be anti gay rights. Pence is also anti gay rights, and Pence may have more influence over Trump nowadays. People who thought that Trump didn't mean what he said on the campaign trail keep getting proven wrong. Trump meant every last word.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"What do gay and lesbian rights have to do with transgender rights?"

Y'all beat me to it. When do gays and lesbians tire of being lumped in with the mentally ill? Sooner than anyone currently thinks, I'd bet.

Unknown said...

"Whatever happened with that diagnosis of Parkinson's Disease you pushed on Hillary before the election? :-)"


Sunsong, they predicted she would die of some malady within the year. LOL!

David said...

My problem is not with the policy. It's with the federalization of the policy. It's actually ok that different states have different policies on matters like this. The left has discovered this principle now that they do not control the federal apparatus. It would be good if all embraced the idea, whether in or out of power in Washington.

Skippy Tisdale said...

she said she considered it a 'moral obligation' for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment.

What's that have to do with bathrooms and locker-rooms?

The Cracker Emcee said...

""Whatever happened with that diagnosis of Parkinson's Disease you pushed on Hillary before the election? :-)"


Sunsong, they predicted she would die of some malady within the year. LOL!"

I'd still take that bet. The old gal is just barely tottering along. 2020 calls!

Unknown said...

"So sun, my very pretty 19 y o daughter had a 6' bearded make follow her into the women's bathroom in college."

That person could've been a woman. I'm pretty sure men who want to look like women would shave the beard.

exiledonmainstreet said...

You don't get it Seeing Red.

Other people have to suffer so sunsong can feel good about herself.

Michael K said...

Trump said he supports LGBT rights but that does not necessarily require everyone else's rights to be cancelled.

This is a fake left wing issue and is an example of how far out there the Democrats have gotten.

Unknown said...

I do give Betsy DeVos credit for attempting to do the right thing. Too bad she capitulated.

Francisco D said...

Aside from the usual virtue signaling, why is adolescent transgenderism such a big issue?

What is the incidence rate?

How are these few kids "harmed" by using the bathrooms corresponding to their birth certificate until they turn 18 and can go through the gender change process?

exiledonmainstreet said...

"That person could've been a woman."

Yeah, sure, women who are so heavily bearded that they look just like men are a common sight. Who knows, maybe on Planet Inga they are.


I'm pretty sure men who want to look like women would shave the beard."

Pervy men don't have to look or dress like women in order to use the ladies room. All they have to do is say they identify as women and that gets them access to the ladies room in the wonderful world of liberals.

khesanh0802 said...

@Todd and Lance Remember that with the NYT it's all about the narrative. If the facts don't fit, or you have no supporting evidence, you just make stuff up. That kid Blair who made up stories and was fired was just a couple of years ahead of his time.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seeing Red said...

Come on, sun.

'Splainy.

Amadeus 48 said...

Nobody knows anything-- William Goldman

exiledonmainstreet said...

Seeing Red, sunsong and unknown, when faced with facts, quickly try to change the subject and attack you, a woman whose daughter whose daughter was threatened by a man in the bathroom.

That's that kind, lovable Left Wing Sisterhood in action!

Seeing Red said...

That the feminists set the narrative on all men being rapists is sprinkles on top.

All men are rapists so OF COURSE we need to welcome them into female bathrooms and locker rooms.

Especially workout locker rooms with out children.

Double points, cos it's all about the score, for tying it into Milo's comments.

Yancey Ward said...

I read the DeVos statement, and I don't really get where the NYTimes is getting the slant it reports. What it seems like to me on a careful reading is this- DeVos actually agreed with the rescission and based her statement on the actual grounds on which Sessions is basing his own support- that it was federal overreach to have gotten involved in the first place.

Could it be that the NYTimes is trying to make it seem like no one disliked the Obama regulation but Trump and Sessions?

Unknown said...

" sunsong and unknown, when faced with facts, quickly try to change the subject and attack you, a woman whose daughter whose daughter was threatened by a man in the bathroom."

Someone is missing the self awareness gene, lol.

Unknown said...

In protest of all bathrooms rules I will be peeing all over the public bathrooms and pooping in the sink. This is a true protest and ask that people follow my lead on this.

Seeing Red said...

Can't let real life get in the way of the dream.


Or biology.



But my daughter doesn't have to be led to the slaughter of their perfect world.

death cult.

n.n said...

feminists set the narrative on all men being rapists

The double-edged scalpel that they once wielded effortlessly threatens to abort their political progress. It's poetic justice. The Planned prepubescent children are laughing at the feminist folly.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Unknown said...
In protest of all bathrooms rules I will be peeing all over the public bathrooms and pooping in the sink. This is a true protest and ask that people follow my lead on this."

Hey, why limit yourself to the bathroom? EPA employees poop right in the halls!

exiledonmainstreet said...

And the Occupy crowd poops on cop cars!

Now Unknown, if you really want to make a statement, that's the way to do it. Head on over the next Dunkin' Donuts parking lot and make your protest!

Trumpit said...

I hope Kate McKinnon continues to play Jeff Sessions on SNL. She is a marvelous character actor. Parody is the best way to deal with the Trump Administration's cast of characters from hell.

Jack Wayne said...

It could be that DeVos is the Machiavelli and Trump really is the stupid Orangeman. She realized that this action would cause her more trouble as she deals with the schools so she made a protest to get lefties to think she's not so bad after all. Win!

exiledonmainstreet said...

Francisco D said...
Aside from the usual virtue signaling, why is adolescent transgenderism such a big issue?"

If you remember, transgenderism became a big deal about 5 minutes after the SCOTUS ruling on gay marriage. Suddenly it went from barely on the radar to The Biggest Civil Right Issue in America. It's almost like the Left just can't stop pushing the envelope...on this issue, they pushed it a bit too far.

Paddy O said...

If true, it makes sense for DeVos. She was strongly opposed, so gains credibility as a voice against Trump on an issue that really doesn't affect her job. Now she's the one getting credit for "doing the right thing" which helps her positioning and negotiating in other issues.

Thorley Winston said...

The far right theocrats feeling their oats....

In this case getting the White House to agree that bathroom access is not a federal matter.

May the “far right theocrats” enjoy similar success on many other issues in the future.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Is Betsy Devos:

(A) The hero of this story.
(B) A coward for not resigning.
(C) A villain for leaking this to the press.
(D) The victim of a press leak.


Unknown said...

If DeVos was not being genuine, it'll soon become public and any leverage she may have gotten with those who opposed her, will vanish as quickly as it appeared. She will have dug herself a deeper hole.

Balfegor said...

Re: Trumpit:

I hope Kate McKinnon continues to play Jeff Sessions on SNL. She is a marvelous character actor.

She really is -- I've only seen her in sketches (on Youtube), and stuff like this, but she does a good job. Her Kellyanne Conway is a little weak, but her Clinton was good.

The weak link in those sketches, frankly, is Alec Baldwin. And I think that has to do with his own ego. He could just be himself and he'd be a better parody Trump in almost every way (that's probably why they cast him). But I imagine he doesn't think of himself that way so he has to scrunch up his face and mug like an actor in a grade school play. It doesn't work well at all, and I think that weakens McKinnon's performance too, since she's usually playing the straight man to his clown in those sketches.

Kristian Holvoet said...

So let get this straight (no pun intended): The left most viciously attacked the one most likely to help them?

I actually kind of think that was intentional, it lets them keep the narritive of Republicans == Evil haters. Like having to destroy Black Conservative, Female Conservatives, LGBT Conservatives, so that they can say "There is no-one like you to speak for you on the conservative side because they are bigots"

Big Mike said...

No one sane would permit adolescent and pre-adolescent males an opportunity to go into the girl's' restrooms at school on their say-so that they "feel" as though they're actually female. Especially since the rules permit them to change their minds daily, if not hourly.

Unknown said...

Just to make it extra weird, some of the trans such as Bruce Jenner still want to have sex with women. So you have a female appearing person, with a penis but boobs, who still wants to hit on girls. And this is ok to go in the women's locker room?
Virtue signaling means ignoring what will really happen when your abstract virtue (equal rights for trans) is implemented in the real world.

Thorley Winston said...

Reading the comments at the NYT piece it seems that there may be a fissure among people who don’t like President Trump. More than a few seem to be of the opinion that this was botched by the Obama administration and should have been left at the local level (which is what Trump’s actions would in essence do). President Trump probably didn’t lose much (maybe not any) of his own support by this action and may have at least muted some of the opposition by people who voted for Clinton but are tired of some of the excesses of the SJW crowd.

Oso Negro said...

I blame homosexual restroom designers for this entire issue. If we had proper WCs, as they do in Europe with floor-to-ceiling walls and doors, instead of requiring a minimum clearance under the wall for pottytime dick-sucking no one's jimmies would be rustled.

khesanh0802 said...

Lucien @1032. Exactly right. CEO's resolve differences of opinion in their staff. It's their job. Along the way they get familiar with the issues at hand and the competence of their subordinates. Hell of a way to run a country!

Francisco D said...

Exile... said: It's almost like the Left just can't stop pushing the envelope..."

Yes. They are also pushing the envelope on basic logic and common sense. One example is conflating gay and lesbian rights with the right of kids to choose which bathrooms to use.

Another example is how there is incessant whining about Trump and Steve Bannon being anti-semitic. I wonder why they are not friends with Keith Ellison and Calypso Louie.

It's similar to the Democrats pushing "George W. Bush is a liar" after Bill Clinton blatantly lied to a federal judge. For them, projection is self-defense.

GRW3 said...

Gay marriage... most didn't actually care but whacking that poor baker for $140Large because he wouldn't support it with his compensated work, struck a lot of people the wrong way. Protection and accommodation for adult transgenders would be one thing but forcing that on children was too much. If they said accommodating was important fine. If they said that allowing this for children who have an established, professionally recognized gender issue who lived as the other sex, probably would have been OK. Whoever wants to go wherever just wasn't popular.

Laura said...

"How are these few kids 'harmed' by using the bathrooms corresponding to their birth certificate until they turn 18 and can go through the gender change process?"

They are exposed to adults who say "no."

buwaya said...

"If you remember, transgenderism became a big deal about 5 minutes after the SCOTUS ruling on gay marriage. "

Correct. There was suddenly saturation coverage of the new issue.
Almost as if it were all planned and directed, isn't it?
There is a controlling entity here, and an end-state objective.

JaimeRoberto said...

If my kid identifies as a cat does the school have to set out a litter box for him, or can he just pee wherever he wants to mark his territory?

n.n said...

Water Closet therapy is part of a solution promoted by the Pro-Choice Church to prepubescent and older children so that they may realize a transgender/crossover conversion.

rcocean said...

Why is it the job of the Federal Government to decide who can go into the ladies room?

Crazy. Where are the libertarians? Oh, that's right, they're probably out buying illegal cocaine to share with their illegal gardener who they're paying 10 cents/hour.

Seeing Red said...

To be perfectly coarse and vulgar, Unknown, also possibly attaching accoutrements.

Robert Cook said...

"I am beginning to suspect that some of the new transgenderism is really coming from gay and lesbians who are uncomfortable being gay and lesbian and want to transfigure themselves into the opposite sex to feel more comfortable in society."

Uh, no. Having sexual and romantic attraction to members of one's own gender has nothing to do with believing that one is a woman in a man's body or man in a woman's body. Gay people have no sense at all that they are the "wrong" gender. They are fully in harmony with their bodies and their sense of who they are. They just happen like other people of their own gender rather than the opposite gender.

Sydney said...

Robert Cook- that wasn't my point. I was saying that they are uncomfortable with their homosexuality and are trying to hide their true sex to cope with that discomfort. This does not apply to all homosexuals, of course, but I do think there is a subset of people drawn to the transgender movement for this reason. These are the people who want to keep their penis but add breasts and have sex with men. The women who want to keep their vaginas and breasts and ovaries but grow a beard.

Francisco D said...

Laura,

Do you ever say no to your kids?

EDH said...

Sebastian said...
So if I understand the current lefty position correctly, they want to get government out of the bedroom but into the bathroom.

No, the DOE OCR has been in the bedroom as well. The dorm room in particular.

AllenS said...

I would like to see a law that states: "It's ok to discriminate." That would take care of all of our problems. You go your way, and I'll go mine.

Static Ping said...

Given that the original Obama "Dear Colleague" letter was illegal, unenforceable, based on a reading of statute that was absurd, a violation of federalism, and poor policy, I am pleased it has been rescinded. If I agreed with the policy, I would still be pleased it was rescinded. Four out of five ain't bad.

buwaya said...

"They are fully in harmony with their bodies and their sense of who they are. "

I doubt this very much. People are very easily influenced, imprinted, and much of "who they are" amount to learned habits. The extreme variability in forms of sexual desire and expression across human societies leads me to this conclusion. There may be a very small number "born that way", but not most who are "that way".

The modern situation in the US and other westerns societies is disastrous, literally. It is auto extermination though cultural memes. This is one of the lesser ones, but it does lead there, and I suspect for far more than one would think.

Its rather bizarre, the number of "last of their line" gay people we have met - literally, the last of their line, the only-children survivors of clans, childless great uncles and uncles and aunts, and these only-children are gay, so they are the end. And all were Jewish.
Something very sinister is going on.

Joe said...

As reported, this story makes no sense. What, exactly, was DeVos's substantive opposition? What was her actual argument?

Could it have been a procedural difference in opinion, not one based on policy?

Sigivald said...

It's not the Feds' job to run everything nationwide?

Shocking! Utterly shocking!

Robert Cook said...

"Robert Cook- that wasn't my point. I was saying that they are uncomfortable with their homosexuality and are trying to hide their true sex to cope with that discomfort."

That seems absurd to me, that someone "uncomfortable" with being homosexual would seek to go through the trauma of sex-reassignment surgery and hormone therapy simply to alleviate that "discomfort." That would leave them in the position of being homosexual with--what would be from their perspective--a horribly mutilated/transformed body...compounding many times over their discomfort.

Lydia said...

It might actually be true that DeVos was opposed -- in an article from last November:

"[LGBT] Advocates point to one DeVos relationship that they say gives them hope for how she may approach LGBT issues: Greg McNeilly, a political adviser to DeVos and the chief operating officer of the DeVos family’s company Windquest Group, is gay and was one of the first to marry his same-sex partner in Michigan after the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. McNeilly declined to comment for this story.

Stephanie White, executive director of Equality Michigan, said she believes that with McNeilly as an influence, DeVos’ views on LGBT issues have evolved. She noted that DeVos doesn’t speak out against gay rights, and even called on Dave Agema, a Michigan Republican National Committee member, to step down from the RNC in 2014 after making comments highly critical of gays."

tim maguire said...

For generations, people used the bathroom they best fit in and nobody paid much attention. Then the activists, having nothing much better to do, decided to enshrine in law something that effects hardly anyone anyway, and now it's a big fight and people are getting hurt.

Thanks, activists, for saving us from the hard right theocrats!

tim maguire said...

Lydia, the fact that DeVos has gay friends does not indicate her views on transgender bathrooms. I don't know if there's been a study done, but the Ls, Gs, and Bs I know (a relatively large number) are annoyed that the Ts are lumped in with them when it's really an unrelated issue.

Michael K said...

That seems absurd to me, that someone "uncomfortable" with being homosexual would seek to go through the trauma of sex-reassignment surgery and hormone therapy simply to alleviate that "discomfort."

I agree. The gays I have known were not uncomfortable with their sexuality unless they got sick in the AIDS epidemic, which is mostly over now. Even then, they were who they were. A few like Randy Shilts were sad that the epidemic made gay life so dangerous. One doctor friend of mine, even as he was dying of AIDS, was reminiscing about how much fun they had.

The transgender people are cases of gender dysphoria and need treatment, not "civil rights."

A few of the adults are just taking advantage of the situation.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

she considered it a 'moral obligation' for every school in America to protect all students from discrimination, bullying and harassment.

Schools should protect students from teachers and administrators and students of the opposite sex who want to grossly violate their sexual privacy and demand that they conform to and affirm as true lies and fictions that boys are girls and girls are boys.

mockturtle said...

A few like Randy Shilts were sad that the epidemic made gay life so dangerous.

But Shilts was one of the few gay men who suggested that the gay community bore some responsibility in the epidemic and urged closure of the bath houses in San Francisco. He was shouted down by his own friends who wanted no infringement upon what they saw as 'the gay lifestyle'.

Michael K said...

He was shouted down by his own friends who wanted no infringement upon what they saw as 'the gay lifestyle'.

Yes, he saw it coming but nothing stopped them until the population was devastated. That, in my opinion, is where the whole "gay marriage" fad came from. They were trying to change the gay lifestyle because of the fear of the effects of promiscuity, which was the real reason for the epidemic.

SukieTawdry said...

The most egregious part of Obama's edict, and the one seldom discussed, had nothing to do with bathrooms, locker rooms or showers. It was the part that said if a student presented with gender dysphoria at school, it would be up to school officials to decide if the parents would be apprised of the situation. Got that? The government, not the parents, would decide what course of action was in the best interests of the child.

The second most egregious aspect was that Obama's order took Title IX places where it was never intended to go.

Doctors claim most minors who think they're in the wrong body grow out of it and accept the biological sex they are by the time they become adults. I consider gender-related surgery and the use of exogenous hormones to arrest puberty child abuse.

fivewheels said...

"Who is the leaker?"

lol

Matthew Blaine said...

This isn't about rights. It's about control.

Note that the battlespace is the public school, where parental control is usurped by neo-marxists, who don't want to just normalize deviancy, they want to ingrain it.

The Cracker Emcee said...

"She said she had directed the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights to investigate all claims of such treatment 'against those who are most vulnerable in our schools,' but also argued that bathroom access was not a federal matter....""

Sometimes the purpose of an investigation is show that there's nothing to investigate. Liberals have loved this kind of Kabuki in the past but I'm guessing they've suddenly lost their appreciation of it. I expect to see a lot of that in the next 4 years.

1. Investigate
2. Find nothing
3. Having demonstrated that there is no need for the agency/regulation, eliminate it.

The Cracker Emcee said...


"This will be very popular with the majority of the Republican Party faithful. It will also make the Democrats froth at the mouth, which will endear it to the Republican base even more."

Also popular with a whole lot of Hispanics and African-Americans for whom this pervy Honky craziness is anathema. Remember them? The ones that stayed home last November and gave Trump the election? Civil rights, my Black ass!

Seeing Red said...

Via Insty:

THIS IS CNN. Chris Cuomo: If a 12-Year-Old Girl Doesn’t Want to See a Penis In the Locker Room, That’s Either Because of Her “Overprotective Dad” or Her Own Lack of “Tolerance.”



This will win over the deplorables!

mockturtle said...

THIS IS CNN. Chris Cuomo: If a 12-Year-Old Girl Doesn’t Want to See a Penis In the Locker Room, That’s Either Because of Her “Overprotective Dad” or Her Own Lack of “Tolerance.”

Unhinged. Completely unhinged. And these people think Trump is crazy?

Christopher said...

"Also popular with a whole lot of Hispanics and African-Americans for whom this pervy Honky craziness is anathema. Remember them? The ones that stayed home last November and gave Trump the election? Civil rights, my Black ass!"


I think you have a point and this may help him slightly with such groups, although I don't expect anything significant.

People often forget just how socially conservative the black and hispanic communities are despite their support for the Dems (60+% of the black community supported Prop 8 during the 2008 election).

Gospace said...

Michael K said...
I agree. The gays I have known were not uncomfortable with their sexuality unless they got sick in the AIDS epidemic, which is mostly over now.


No, the AIDS epidemic isn't almost over. It's just that more and more potent chemical cocktails seem to be able to keep people from dying as fast. Here are the statistics for the number of people being diagnosed. What it hasn't done is spread out into the general population like the scare stories said it would when it first showed up on the general public's radar.

MayBee said...

It just bothers me that this fight is taking place first in the public schools. Among the children.

Why did Obama take the fight there first? Why not the White House, or Sidwell Friends school, or the Congressional Gym first?

I just think we are asking kids at their most vulnerable- developmentally and physically naked- to be ok with someone not of their gender seeing them naked. And seeing someone not of their gender naked. It seems like a big ask.

JAORE said...

"Pervy men don't have to look or dress like women in order to use the ladies room. All they have to do is say they identify as women and that gets them access to the ladies room in the wonderful world of liberals."

Yeah, that's the sticking point for me too. There are a hell of a lot more predator males (IMO) than transgendered folk.

Eight grade boys allowed into the girls locker room, no questions asked?

Changing rooms in department stores?

I have a daughter and two grand daughters.

Explain to me why this is not a legitimate concern.

Jon Burack said...

I am far more worried about DeVos dragging her feet on the Dear Colleague letters DOE has sent to schools demanding they not suspend kids disproportionately to their racial or ethnic group population in the school. I believe that to be the single most destructive thing the Obama administration has done to the schools. I only hope this reluctance on her part does not mean she will do anything other than end that insane directive completely. Or that Trump won't do all he can to end it.

Jay Elink said...

Gee, I feel like walking down the street in front of the local elementary school, and pulling out my dick and beating it like it owes me money.

Is that OK? Then what if I do the same thing, after entering "female" restroom in that school.

Will someone tell me why I can do (b) but not (a)?

If you say the "beating your dick" part is objectionable, tell us WHY.

After all, what are dicks for?

Real American said...

Regardless of whether the tranny is a perv or not girls don't want to share the restroom or showers with males. Their privacy is invaded. They are in a vulnerable position. Our laws and our leaders owe it to them to protect their rights to privacy, not victimize them in service to a radical agenda that requires people to ignore basic human biology and nature because lunatics feel bad.

mockturtle said...

Not sure about transgenders but most transvestites, as I understand it, are not gay. So a man dressed as a woman going into a women's restroom and is not gay--why is it any different from a man dressed as a man going into a women's restroom? And we have only the word of the 'trans'.

As my mother is fond of saying, "The whole thing stinks to high heaven."

Seeing Red said...

Is whipping it out in the womens bathroom sexual harassment or not?


Especially IF, Mr. Cuomo, you have a 12 yo make and female in the same locker room?

Seeing Red said...

The Progs must really hate children.

Look at everything they keep pushing at them, and we wonder why these kids are basket cases?

Divorce.

Single parenthood.

Hate males.

There was a breakup in her group. I asked my daughter how the kids handle it because most of them are products of divorce. Whether one likes it or not, stats show those kids have problems.

Todd said...

Real American said...
Regardless of whether the tranny is a perv or not girls don't want to share the restroom or showers with males. Their privacy is invaded. They are in a vulnerable position. Our laws and our leaders owe it to them to protect their rights to privacy, not victimize them in service to a radical agenda that requires people to ignore basic human biology and nature because lunatics feel bad.

2/23/17, 10:14 PM


This! Most (many?) kids that age are embarrassed to be naked in front of their same-sex peers. To be that way in front of their opposite sex peers? Mortified! In front of the "pervy" guy? Kill me now!