January 10, 2017

"On his blog, Mayor Paul Soglin takes on the UW's conservative blogger Ann Althouse for disparaging the city's proposed public market, mocking it as a liberal creation."

"Soglin extols the benefits the public market will begin to deliver and admonishes Althouse to stop portraying everything in Madison as crafted by liberals and reeking of socialism when, in fact, the plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism."

I'm seeing that this morning in the local paper, The Capital Times, with no reporter's name attached to it. It's an embarrassing misreading of my post, but I don't know whether the misreading is by the Cap Times or the Mayor.

Here's the post of mine from a few days ago. It quotes a fundraising consultant who says she discovered that "people got more and more interested in the project" when she told them it was "about inclusiveness, and having a place for a variety of cultures and ethnicities to come together." My mockery was limited to expressing skepticism about whether people really were interested or merely "conscious of the need to look interested... when someone comes at you with talk of 'inclusiveness' and the 'com[ing] together' of 'cultures and ethnicities.'"

Beyond that, I confessed that "I've never been able to understand" the idea of the public market. That's not mocking the market, just admitting I don't get it. And I really don't get the idea that it's a tool for achieving "racial equity and social justice." I didn't say a word about capitalism and socialism. I'm just doing racial critique and suspicious that people are using racial propaganda to grease some project they want.

So let's take a look at Mayor Soglin's blog:
This weekend Ann Althouse mocked — she is good at that — the Madison Public Market....
What did she do? She used mockery...



Soglin says:
There is good reason why the analysis of the Public Market includes a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity.
The bullet-point list that follows gives a visual impression of an argument, but I can't find it. The recent recession "was bad, and is still challenging, for low income families and individuals," these people need "entry-level jobs," entrepreneurship in food business can provide entry level jobs, and "low-income people of all colors and races" can engage in entrepreneurship. What is the argument? We're going to move toward racial equity with some new food service jobs and new potential to start a food-service business?

Speaking of entrepreneurship, you're not doing very well as an idea entrepreneur, Mayor Soglin. I said I didn't understand the idea. I'm open to listening to an argument, but you are not making it. You're just dropping a disjointed list out there as if the points add up. It's a tad underpants-gnomish.

Soglin proceeds to offer information about markets in other cities. The one in Seattle, he tells us, "is expensive and losing its charm as it is now a major tourist destination." Was it sold as helping the poor and minorities?

The one in Philadelphia is said to be good but related to the railway. Here, Soglin reminds us that — because of Scott Walker — we didn't get a train. So no train-related market for us. What that had to do with helping the poor and minorities, I don't know.

Next, Soglin refers to 3 markets in Minneapolis and York, Pennsylvania. The one in York supports vendors who are "almost all white, reflecting the population of the community." Wouldn't that support the prediction that a public market in 78.9% -white Madison would serve the interests of white people? What is the argument for the market as a racial-progress tool?

I don't think Soglin addresses my questions seriously at all. He dings me for mockery, but my mockery is much more serious than his haphazard dumping of factoids with no substance linking them up into a reasonable argument.

Really, he fails to see that I went easy on him by keeping things light with questions, confessions of inability to understand, and invitations to engage. He did not engage.

And check out his last paragraph:
If Althouse can look beyond her own exclusive world, one reeking in privilege, perhaps she will escape the shackles of her rigid assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism. At times these plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism.
He said "reeking" three times. I guess he thinks smelliness is funny. Maybe he's into the metaphor that ideology is odor.

Let's take a closer sniff.

The first "reeking" is my exclusive, privileged world. What world is that? Madison, Wisconsin? The University of Wisconsin? The law school?

Next, I'm accused of having a "rigid assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism." That doesn't connect to anything in my post. The rigidity must be in his head. He who smelt it dealt it.

He's afraid, I suspect, that he'll be accused of socialism. But I was expressing skepticism about race-based propaganda for things that don't seem to have anything to do with race.

I didn't hit you over the head with this, Mayor Soglin, but your project seems to be offering something white middle-class people like. And one of the things these people like is the feeling that they are not greedily grasping at something they want, but helping the poor and minorities.

And speaking of liberal self-love, why do you think you smell so good when you're trying to do capitalism? Do you think socialism stinks or do you think you stink of socialism and need to douse yourself with capitalism to get something done? I never talked about capitalism and socialism. I talked about race propaganda, who really benefits, and will this thing really work?

Take a metaphorical shower and come back when you're ready to talk substance, sound argument, and reality.

ADDED: Meade points out that Soglin put a link on "reeking in privilege" in that last paragraph, where he's saying I'm in an "exclusive, privileged world." It goes to a post of mine from yesterday, "Did you watch the Golden Globes last night and hear what the entertainment industry people had to say about Trump?" That's a post making fun of the Hollywood elite that partied with Obama on Saturday and celebrated themselves with awards on Sunday. I was saying we weren't watching the Globes but the Packers game. Well, it is a privilege to live in Wisconsin and root for the Packers, but I don't think that's what he could have meant. I do see that my post used the phrase "reeking privilege." I said:
But I find celebrity talk about presidential politics so compulsively avoidable these days. The celebrities all backed Hillary Clinton. They — in their reeking privilege — seemed to have had their hearts set on 8 more years of glamming it up in the White House.
Does that show me in an "exclusive world"? It's a world anyone can enter. All you've got to do is feel sick of celebrities talking about presidential politics. Come on in! Everyone's welcome. Want to watch the Packers game?

216 comments:

1 – 200 of 216   Newer›   Newest»
Big Mike said...

Well, he's right when he says you are good at mockery. Not like Treacher, but not bad, either.

Seeing Red said...

Was this the $13 mil project?

Some Seppo said...

I smell a Theme of the Day.

Brando said...

If it weren't for Farmer's Markets, where else would frotteurs go? The Library???

Plus where else can you get locally sourced polenta and fair trade beans, and buy them in front of other people who get to see that those are the things you choose to buy?

BDNYC said...

Absolutely devastating post, Althouse. You made the mayor your bitch. I hope your retirement doesn't include opening a business in Madison. You may encounter difficulties in getting the necessary permits.

Tim said...

Not sure on the deal at any of the markets he mentioned, but the open air market I wandered through in Turin was great. Wasn't a tourist attraction, but open air fruit and vegetables, food booths, clothing booths, and half the city there browsing and buying it looked like. Only city involvement seemed to be closing off the streets, not sure why that would cost 13 mil in Madison.

I also went to a couple in smaller towns in England when I was there, very similar though smaller and even more crowded. Great prepared food, I didn't try any of the fruit and vegetable booths, I was working and staying in a bed and breakfast with no way to cook.

But they really are interesting, and very popular in England. But here in Cookeville, we just have a farmers market, probably 60K or so in paving and a pole barn, and get there early for fresh fruit and vegetables in season. Pretty popular, but again, not sure how you get a 13 mil price tag for the city.

Meade said...

"Plus where else can you get locally sourced polenta and fair trade beans, and buy them in front of other people who get to see that those are the things you choose to buy?"

Um, well, Whole Foods.

Sayyid said...

"The first "reeking" is my exclusive, privileged world. What world is that? Madison, Wisconsin? The University of Wisconsin? The law school? "

Silly Professor. "Privileged" isn't a coherent or honest argument he meant to present to you. It's the polite company version of "STFU."

You're supposed to be terrified and ashamed that someone might call you privileged, apologize for your lack of wokeness or whatever other newly made up word is trending as a hashtag, and let them go on rambling incoherently in peace. The fact that you didn't, in progressive circles, just proves you're a racist, xenophobe, homophobe, Trump-supporting ... blah blah blah.

rehajm said...

All the reeking- Maybe he's mocking your anosmia?

The Mayor of Madison, WI mocks the disabled!

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Silly Professor. "Privileged" isn't a coherent or honest argument he meant to present to you. It's the polite company version of "STFU."

More like the SJW version of STFU.

F said...

Tim:

"not sure how you get a 13 mil price tag for the city."

Two ways:

1. Hire a consultant who spends years accomplishing nothing more than filling their bank account, and

2. Expect political contributions from a variety of interested parties, including the aforementioned consultant.

Curious George said...

I'm not siding with Soglin, but in his defense, there is a high likelihood that he was totally baked when he blogged that.

rehajm said...

...stop portraying everything in Madison as crafted by liberals and reeking of socialism when, in fact, the plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism...

I'll know they're serious when they don't need the public money.

James Pawlak said...


The people of Madison deserve that person. It is a suitable punishment for their Fascist votes.

Sebastian said...

"Conservative blogger Ann Althouse" Now that's funny. Made my morning. Glad to have you on our side, if only in the minds of the the loony left. Cruel neutrality makes no difference.

Of course, viewed from the far left, anyone to their right is "conservative."

But Soglin should have thought twice about taking on Althouse in retirement, when she has plenty of time. Seniors are "privileged" that way.

Big Mike said...

Someone from Madison can correct me if necessary, but googling "farmers market Madison WI" produces three hits: the Hilldale Farmer's Market on the west side of the city, the Dane County Farmer's Market between the university and Capitol Square, and the Eastside Farmer Market in the isthmus. Why does Madison need another market.

Google has ratings only for the Dane County market, where 107 raters averaged 4.7. One person gave a rating of 1.0, his rationale being that it was just too crowded. So bottom line is that -- from where I sit almost a thousand miles away -- Madison is not underserved by markets.

Paul Zrimsek said...

I'd think a properly smelly capitalist would simply get rid of whatever legal restrictions there are on sidewalk vendors, and let the fish-and-chips fall where they may. The assumption that entrepreneurship has to take place in some city-provided space reeks of something, but it isn't capitalism.

The Reading Market is next to a commuter rail station. I can imagine a certain sort of (white) person coming in from the suburbs to visit the market. But from another city?

Gabriel said...

@Ann:He who smelt it dealt it.

But you're forgetting that "whoever says the rhyme did the crime."

rehajm said...

He links to Ann's post discussing The Golden Globe broadcast as proof her world reeking in privilege. Somehow we should equate Ann's life of commenting on a TV broadcast of celebrities celebrating themselves with Ann being a part of that world?

Underpants-gnomish, indeed.

Skippy Tisdale said...

The Midtown Global Market In Minneapolis - a very white city - is as diverse as hell.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/midtown-global-market-minneapolis

Hagar said...

Or an intern is doing the mayor's blog today.
An adult politician surely would not have been so incautious as to himself bringing up these terms in a post about his city.

Gabriel said...

@big Mike:One person gave a rating of 1.0, his rationale being that it was just too crowded. So bottom line is that -- from where I sit almost a thousand miles away -- Madison is not underserved by markets.

I would say too much crowding is evidence of underserving. Clearly there is pent-up demand, if people who want to go don't because it's too crowded!

mccullough said...

White people calling other white people privileged is beyond silly.

Freeman Hunt said...

I think the reeking is coming from that bullshit in the paper and on the mayor's blog.

Gabriel said...

@Ann:The first "reeking" is my exclusive, privileged world. What world is that? Madison, Wisconsin? The University of Wisconsin? The law school?

On THAT one, it's a fair cop. But he uses it for argument ad hominem, which is all "check your privilege" is. The same old serpent.

jaydub said...

Professor, it is decidedly not gallant to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent such as his honor. You should be ashamed!

Fernandinande said...

"There is good reason why the analysis of the Public Market includes a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity."

Is it because those buzzwords become a slogan when they're stuck together in the same sentence?

Bill Peschel said...

"my mockery is much more serious than his haphazard dumping of factoids with no substance linking them up into a reasonable argument."

As long as we're in a Monty Python mood, I would contend that this is more like something out of "Argument Clinic":

https://youtu.be/uLlv_aZjHXc?t=1m41s

Patrick said...

We have a nice Farmers market in St. Paul, substantially smaller than the one in Minneapolis. Plenty of the vendors are Hmong, and they usually have great stuff to sell. The market accepts welfare ebt cards, but the patrons are overwhelmingly white and seem to be the type that don't rely on such benefits. Is the mayor hoping for minority patrons or minority vendors?

mccullough said...

Trains and public markets. The 19th Century

Ann Althouse said...

"Not sure on the deal at any of the markets he mentioned, but the open air market I wandered through in Turin was great. Wasn't a tourist attraction, but open air fruit and vegetables, food booths, clothing booths, and half the city there browsing and buying it looked like. Only city involvement seemed to be closing off the streets, not sure why that would cost 13 mil in Madison."

You may not know this, but we already have a first rate Farmer's Market. It's on the Capitol Square. It's an immense deal here in Madison and it's been around for decades.

Rusty said...

Soglin says:

"There is good reason why the analysis of the Public Market includes a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity."

Because me and my friends stand to make a butt load of money,
AmIright, Mr Mayor?
Cause 12 mil?
Really?

mccullough said...

Selling marijuana in the public market would be profitable

Meade said...

"Want to watch the Packers gams?"

I know you fixed that typo but I just can't help but immortalizing it in the comments. What can I say? — you married a troublemaker.

Fernandinande said...

We reek of privilege for a few days after they have a cattle-drive in front of the house.

Leslie Graves said...

I imagine that the argument for the public market as a way to support low-income earners, including low-income earners of a variety of ethnic groups, is that there is some federal grant that requires that it must be so in order to qualify for the grant.

Meade said...

"Selling marijuana in the public market would be profitable"

Giving it away would be even more profitable.

Freeman Hunt said...

It's absurd for a big city mayor to carp about someone else's privilege.

mccullough said...

Public markets are Stuff White People Like. Condescending to minorities is also Stuff White People Like. They go together like a horse and carriage.

Bill Peschel said...

I would also point out that Harrisburg, Pa., has the Broad Street Market, two buildings with thriving businesses. The burgers at the Harrisburger are as good as Steak and Shake (which we fell in love with when we visited Drexel recently), and we bought soap and candles made from goat's milk, and fudge at some other businesses there. Since Harrisburg is decidedly multi-cultural, there were Jamaicans, African-Americans, Muslims, Amish, and we privileged whites. Apart from the rodent infestation last year, it seems to be a thriving place, and I'm pretty sure didn't get $13 million to launch.

(Not that the town doesn't have other problems; the last mayor -- Reid -- drained the treasury buying Wild West stuff at auction for a proposed museum he wanted to place on a Susquehanna River island which floods regularly, and before he left office boosted the pensions of the police and firefighters that will guarantee bust the budget for years to come.)

mccullough said...

White people carping about other white people's privilege is the zenith of White Privilege.

AprilApple said...

Liberals get to spend as much of your money as they want, and they will do so in the same of diversity.... and other nonsense. If you object, you're a racist.


Ron Winkleheimer said...

I didn't hit you over the head with this, Mayor Soglin, but your project seems to be offering something white middle-class people like. And one of the things these people like is the feeling that they are not greedily grasping at something they want, but helping the poor and minorities.

Yep. We're not exploiting illegal immigrants for cheap labor, we're fighters for social justice. Its totally a coincidence that we benefit financially from it, while people who we consider are political enemies and deplorable see there wages stagnating due to it. There bad people who deserve bad things anyway. And anyway, those chickens aren't going to pluck themselves.

mccullough said...

Meade lol. The brownies are free but the Cheetos and bottled water are $10 each.

Rusty said...

Tell ya what Mr. Mayor.
I've got a solution to your problem that includes all those thing you like plus it will only cost you six bucks.
Are you ready?
It's called a flea market.
And you can hold it in any open space the city already owns without building anything!
I'll take my six bucks in cash, please.
Honest to Christ.
Where the fuck do these people come from?

Brando said...

"Um, well, Whole Foods."

Whole Foods is good, but there's nothing like a public open air market to really drive home how virtuous my purchases are!

Meade said...

Exactly, mccullough.

Ann Althouse said...

I think the new market is inside a building of some kind so it could be year-round, unlike the existing farmers' markets. But it's the outdoor setting that's nice. Once it's indoors, how is it not another grocery story/food court?

I can't picture what it is supposed to be like. I don't know whose interests it serves. I do see that it's being promoted with a claim of racial progress that doesn't seem believable.

Owen said...

BDNYC: "Absolutely devastating post, Althouse. You made the mayor your bitch. I hope your retirement doesn't include opening a business in Madison. You may encounter difficulties in getting the necessary permits."

Agree with maximum enthusiasm, this was a great post. The Mayor returned her shot with a weak high backhand and she has just stuffed it down his throat. What I took from the Professor's riposte was that she really is ready to go national with Prog Beat-down Columns. Simply wonderful stuff.

On the merits, this market thing sounds like another Disneyfied commodity. Progs align with merchants to squeeze public subsidies to create a SWPL Space, where sociology postdocs can demonstrate how much they care by paying too much for certified authentic free range free trade hand-curated bacon. But of course, as the mayor says, as soon as the general public discovers this precious cultural happening, it becomes devalued and a new one must be formed. Again, with taxpayer support and lots of activists "speaking for the voiceless" minorities.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

@Big Mike

Those three other markets are racist. Everyone involved is either a racist, homophobe or straight up Nazi.

That is why the city had to create a fourth farmers market that is inclusive.

Seeing Red said...

Unless he's trying to mimic 10th Street Market in Phili, which is in a building and open year round, the cost doesn't make sense to me.

That's a lotta tax money for a feelz.

mccullough said...

Flea markets would be great. But most of the Drive-In movie parks closed.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

You may not know this, but we already have a first rate Farmer's Market. It's on the Capitol Square. It's an immense deal here in Madison and it's been around for decades.

Call me wacky, but if there really was a market for another Farmer's market, wouldn't someone have opened another one by now?

The Mayor, he keeps using that word, entrepreneur, but I do not think it means what he thinks it means.

I would be less interested in diversity, inclusiveness, blah, blah, blah and a lot more interested in any actual business plans, data justifying the investment of funds, and discussion about why the government wants to open a business that would seem to be competing with a private entity. Also, who is getting the contracts.

Peter said...

Is Althouse a "conservative blogger"? Her blog seems to attract many conservative readers, but can her blog truly be said to be "conservative"? If so, what criteria are used to determine that (other than the presence of conservative readers)? Dare one say that her blog may be conservative by the prevailing political standards of Madison, WI, but that the political standards of Madison are far from representative of those of the rest of Wisconsin, or of the USA?

In any case, assertions that someone is from an "exclusive, privileged world" are inherently ad-hominem, as they aim to invalidate an argument based on who is speaking and not at all on the actual content. "You wouldn't understand" is a sneer, not an argument.


(And, umm "That horrific video of four black teens torturing a mentally disabled white boy wasn't a hate crime, argues the Journal Sentinel's conservative blogger, Christian Schneider" mischaracterizes Schneider's argument. Schneider's argument is that the very category "hate crime" is pernicious, and therefore crimes should not be characterized (or charged) as "hate crimes." Schneider certainly does not deny that the apparent perpetrators express hatred of whites as they are torturing the victim.

steve uhr said...

The Global Market in Minneapolis is in a noteworthy building (former Sears built in the 1920s) and part of a complex redevelopment project involving a hotel and luxury apartments. Total development costs of 190 billion. How is it doing? According to the Star-Tribune:

"This year [2016], they expect to turn their first profit after years of private-public subsidy, on about $1.2 million in net revenue from several dozen ethnic businesses and restaurants that will generate more than $12 million in gross sales."

$12 million in sales from several dozen businesses? Assuming 36 businesses, that is $33k in annual revenue on average. Assume a 10% margin, then 3k annual profit on average. Quite a success after ten years of government subsidies.

mccullough said...

Anybody to the right of Soglin is conservative. Anybody to the left of Soglin runs Cuba or Venezuela.

steve uhr said...

error -- 190 million, not billion

Paco Wové said...

"I think the new market is inside a building of some kind so it could be year-round, unlike the existing farmers' markets. "

What does a farmer sell at a market in, say, February?

Ron Winkleheimer said...

I do see that it's being promoted with a claim of racial progress that doesn't seem believable.

Yeah, but its bullet proof. Once the racial progress card is played everybody has to shut up and ignore any self-dealing that is going on.

Martin said...

Typical reaction of a liberal who is talking irrelevant gibberish and is called on it. You're supposed to agree with him, admire his courage and high morals, and then STFU, in that order. Anything else is a major insult. The LAST thing he wants is intelligent discussion.

AJ Lynch said...

The "one in Philadelphia" I assume he is referring to the Reading Terminal Market which is in downtown area and has been there for maybe 100 years. And sure, it has a good variety of ethnic food vendors but that was not its aim nor goal nor mission- it just happened as far as I can tell.

Ctmom4 said...

I love this post. I would nominate you to fill Taranto's shoes at the WSJ.

walter said...

"The bullet-point list that follows gives a visual impression of an argument, but I can't find it."
Yep.
And..
I note he links to your jab at da Globes but not the "analysis"...not even a quote from it.
Also, if this is such an embrace of "entrepreneurship", why do I get the sense it's being driven by guvment, not a savvy developer?

Owen said...

Steve Uhr: regarding the math on Global Market in Minneapolis, even at $190MM of "development costs" do we see real return on investment with $12MM in "net revenue"? If that were the payback by the businesses to the development entity, and it came in year 1 of the project, you'd say, "OK, that's about 8% return on the capital invested" but of course the money has been put in over years and probably decades, and the return is probably not "net" at all.

Can we ever see real apples-to-apples GAAP-based numbers for these boondoggles? Or would that be rude?

Lem said...

The Rodgers Hail Mary was full of grace.

Ann Althouse said...

"What does a farmer sell at a market in, say, February?"

Goat-milk candles and fudge?

tcrosse said...

Is Soglin Mayor for Life or what ? Can't the Chicago Combination find anybody else to put in there ? I thought he was an idiot back in the 70's when I left Madison, and he seems not to have improved with age.

Paul Zrimsek said...

I've seen grown men pull their own 'eads off rather than talk to Althouse.

Mike Sylwester said...

This is what happens when a Scientific Progressive is allowed to become the Mayor of Madison.

Michael said...

farmer's markets in winter are just sad. A few scraggly winter vegetables, every other stall empty, some scraggly people selling their preserves and maybe some rocking chairs in need of dusting. A guy selling knives.

A robust farmer's market is outside or under sheds outside. It is built for and operated for summer.

Farmer's are not given to giving one shit about diversity so how is that part going to work?

EDH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron Winkleheimer said...

Farmer's markets are so passe.

http://www.localharvest.org/csa/

buwaya said...

Congratulations !
You seem to have worried the local powers-that-be at least.

Seeing Red said...

The real question is since Soglin's been around for evah, why hasn't he solved the issue already? Just keep throwing taxpayer money at it. It'll work this time! They'll even name the market after him!

Kevin said...

"So bottom line is that -- from where I sit almost a thousand miles away -- Madison is not underserved by markets."

Hence the need to make it a social justice thing to justify the $13 mil. Not just organic carrots, but organic carrots with a side of inclusiveness!

EDH said...

Soglin extols the benefits the public market will begin to deliver and admonishes Althouse to stop portraying everything in Madison as crafted by liberals and reeking of socialism when, in fact, the plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism.

"Those opposed say 'I hate America.' "

MadisonMan said...

What does a farmer sell at a market in, say, February?

Greens. There are spinach farms outside of town for example. Cured meats too. Honey. I'm not sure when the stored vegetables peter out -- things like rutabagas, for example.

Re: Soglin. I vaguely recall that during the Baumann/Cieslevhoweveryouspellit era he was a Financial Planner? That kind of thing? I'm not certain. But total agreement that he is just coasting right now as Mayor and should step down and retire.

Paul Zrimsek said...

The best test of how entrepreneurial your market is: Is the city trying to get rid of it?

jv said...

I'm surprised there is nothing from Althouse about "reeking in". Does he mean "reeking of"?

Clyde said...

And of course, the irony is that Althouse has anosmia. Is Soglin making fun of her disability? Because everyone knows that making fun of people with disabilities is bad, and makes you worse than Hitler!

harryo said...

Isn't it weird that no one comments on his blog? Maybe it's too hard? Maybe he needs to get Google Blogger ? :-)

buwaya said...

"Farmer's are not given to giving one shit about diversity so how is that part going to work?"

Perhaps the same way that the Pigford case did.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Pigford_v._Glickman

Original Mike said...

"You may not know this, but we already have a first rate Farmer's Market. It's on the Capitol Square. It's an immense deal here in Madison and it's been around for decades."

Which, presumably, would wither away. I'm struggling to see the economic boost this new market would provide. And, if it costs $13+ milliion, it looks like an economic downer.

walter said...

"What does a farmer sell at a market in, say, February?"
Maybe the term "public market" means a broader array of merch.

traditionalguy said...

Metaphor Shower Heads would make a great Madison Liberal gift idea, especially one that has a reality pulse spray.

You can throw in a few bars of Obama soap on a dope , add a bottle of heads and shoulders better than a commoner shampoo, and for excitement throw in a whiff of Emperor Trump's new Grapeshot scented orange hair conditioner.

Lem said...

By making more out of what Althouse wrote, the mayor and the paper made the mistake of calling for more attention to their nebulous use of taxpayer dollars.

Where have I heard this before?

walter said...

jv said...I'm surprised there is nothing from Althouse about "reeking in". Does he mean "reeking of"?
--
Right..that tells you how pissed she is about this ;)

buwaya said...

"The best test of how entrepreneurial your market is: Is the city trying to get rid of it?"

True. Street vendors and roach-coaches for instance are typical cases where US municipalities frown upon real entrepreneurs, who are trying to bypass legislated barriers to entry.
But in various places, much more. Real market-based currency exchange rates happen, where governments try to override the market. In Manila we had street vendor-level currency exchange at various times. Gold sales and purchase where this is illegal or has high barriers to entry, etc.

Mike Sylwester said...

AprilApple at 11:35 AM

Liberals get to spend as much of your money as they want, and they will do so in the same of diversity

A fortuitous typo.

Richard said...

"If Althouse can look beyond her own exclusive world, one reeking in privilege, perhaps she will escape the shackles of her rigid assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism. At times these plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism."

The mayor doth protest too much

Unknown said...

What can they sell in winter? Cheese, sausage, wool yarn, craft beer, home canned goods, jams, sauces, etc. knitted, crocheted sewn products, homemade soaps, shampoos, lotions, so many products. People here don't seem to have an imagination.

Roughcoat said...

A few weeks ago I dropped by an open-air market on the Upper East Side in NYC. Lots of hipsters selling baked goods. I bought a couple of pies and various pastries. They all tasted like cardboard. I tossed them or fed them to my sister-in-law's dog, who gobbled them up.

rehajm said...

I do see that it's being promoted with a claim of racial progress that doesn't seem believable.

You need to play buzzword bingo with the minorities and local food and stuff to maximize the grant money.

Roughcoat said...

a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity.


Reaching for my pistol ...

Curious George said...

From Soglin's Blog: "When Madison was to have a rail connection to Milwaukee in the pre-Walker era, locating Madison's Public Market in direct proximity to the Madison terminal made sense."

Forget what is has to do with minorities Althouse. You said this project started in 2012? That train deal was killed before that. Doyle tried to slip it in after the electiuon but before Walker took office. For Soglin to position it as part of the decision for the market is just bullshit.

traditionalguy said...

What's a matter with you hard to fool people. You must think of this as Soglin's High Speed Rail Staion or Windmill Farm. All you need is a cover story to raise Lots of money in grants up front that disappears into designated pockets inside a week leaving behind a useless white elephant which becomes a ghost town.

Unknown said...

The indoor market would allow residents of Madison and surrounding areas to showcase and sell their homemade goods. It would promote inclusiveness because there are not only white people that live in Madison, who would be participating. Wouldn't an indoor market that features goods from various ethnicities be unique, fun, useful in bad weather? Or are conservatives here opposed to anything that might appeal to the citizens of Madison and surrounding areas?

Roughcoat said...

What does a farmer sell at a market in, say, February?

In Wisconsin, crystal meth.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I also don't get how a public market/crafts and food fair type of thing specifically helps with racial inequality. Unless they also are going to do something about the layers and layers of restrictive laws, licensing, inspections, FDA stuff to make it easier to market your goods,....it seems like just another farmers' market thing. The racial etc issue is just a front for something they want to do. Be honest about it!

People will enjoy going to the event, to buy the hand crafted, home grown, small business processed food items. But how is this anything at all connected with "racial injustice" " social equality" and any other canned liberal reason that we must do something???

There is a really neat public market in Eugene, Ore that we like to frequent when we visit there. I bought some awesome honey, dried fruit and interesting jam. There were many art booths with hand thrown pots, weavings, drawings, paintings etc. I never once gave any thought to social justice....just...ooooh...look a Thai food booth!!

steve uhr said...

When he was trying to shackle Uber with unnec. regulations at the request of his cabbie owner buddies, Soglin said: "I have no room for Ayn Rand free enterprise nonsense in this discussion"

Fortunately, the State legislature had no room for Castro-kissing Soglin's socialism and blocked local regulations of Uber.

Meade said...

"Forget what is has to do with minorities Althouse. You said this project started in 2012? That train deal was killed before that. Doyle tried to slip it in after the electiuon but before Walker took office. For Soglin to position it as part of the decision for the market is just bullshit."

The boondoggle train Doyle tried to slip in was the Obama train, the so-called "high-speed rail" linking Chicago to Minneapolis and other midwest cities. But in 2010 there was a second train proposal here in Madison, touted by then-mayor, Dave C. That was "light-rail" which would supposedly provide public transportation intra-Madison. I had no idea who this Scott Walker guy for governor was but I voted for him because he promised to stop the high-speed train. I didn't know who Soglin was either but I voted for him because he was the mayoral candidate who said the light-rail system would likely bust the city's budget. Ironic, no?

rehajm said...

I didn't hit you over the head with this, Mayor Soglin, but your project seems to be offering something white middle-class people like

Let's hit him over the head with it:

Stuff White People Like:

#5 Farmers Markets
#6 Organic Food
#7 Diversity
#18 Awareness
#23 Vegan/Vegetarianism
#62 Knowing What's Best For Poor People
#73 Gentrification
#82 Hating Corporations
#132 Picking Their Own Fruit

You might add #109 The Onion (hehe)

damikesc said...

So, it's good because the proles can continue to serve the elite?

Soglin extols the benefits the public market will begin to deliver and admonishes Althouse to stop portraying everything in Madison as crafted by liberals and reeking of socialism when, in fact, the plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism.

Umm, "capitalism" wouldn't require $13M from the city.

Um, well, Whole Foods.

C'mon Meade. That shit ain't AUTHENTIC!!

Silly Professor. "Privileged" isn't a coherent or honest argument he meant to present to you. It's the polite company version of "STFU."

Is the mayor claiming he ISN'T privileged? Because I find it the HEIGHT of hilarity seeing the elites decrying the privilege of the poor...which happens a lot more than people realize.

AJ Lynch said...

DBQ:

The for-profit Honeybaked Ham stores also have a great selection of jams and mustards. I got a ham sandwich there today. Delicious and I did not have to endure any reeking pachouli smell!

buwaya said...

"ooooh...look a Thai food booth!!"

Thai's in the US, not that there are many of them, tend to be very well-off, more so than the US Chinese. Interestingly, so are the US Filipinos. Quite the opposite of the case in Thailand/Philippines.

Anyway, Asians of most sorts in the US would not count as underprivileged minorities.

harryo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lem said...

Not to toot my own horn... but my use of the word nebulous was dead on considering a nebula is a nursery.

What kind of nursery is this taxpayer backed market scheme?

jv said...

Unknown -- I know you are either a troll or Soglin's account, but I can't help myself. Yes of course it could be fun, but it costs money--money that could be spent helping people directly, rather than relying on some weirdo leftist trickle down economics.

Is this the most effective way to spend 13 million dollars if your goal is inclusion or a better life for minorities in Madison? So far the argument is that some non-white people might use it.

And I'm the type of sucker that would be there. Let's just stop pretending this is an act of charity.

Meade said...

I also didn't know who Larry Kaufmann was in 2010. But he wrote a persuasive article in the local alternative newspaper.

wildswan said...

"Public markets" are the latest shopping fad replacing malls and main street. And Milwaukee has a public market inside a building. These are two good reasons to build a public market in Madison if you are a liberal.

But the Milwaukee public market has existed for a hundred years and was formerly based on the harbor and commercial area where trucks and boats brought Milwaukee's food to the wholesale food market. This is the normal way in which a public market develops.

Trucks bring food to Madison so perhaps something could be done if people didn't mind shopping and eating in an area reeking of carbon monoxide and Trump voters. But it won't be that. It will be self-conscious copy of Milan with African and Thai themed objects - brats, the Packers, lake properties and deer hunting will be excluded. So, the Madison "public market" should have a orchid by a cracked window showing a blizzard outside as its symbol: like an orchid anywhere it will be an expensive, out of its environment, and likely never to flower or flourish. In Wisconsin it will also be close to a really inhospitable environment and only protected by crackpot theories.

TreeJoe said...

I read and re-read Soglin's blog to gain insight into the mind of a major city leftwing mayor.

First, let's start with this awesome non-sequiter bulletpoint, "The food industry is a robust sector for new businesses; over one-third of all new businesses in the US are founded by immigrants."

I think this is a fascinating bulletpoint on so many levels. What does "Robust sector for new business" even mean - statistic please?

Second, 1/3rd of all new businesses are founded by immigrants. Well, let's apply that to the food industry. How many new businesses are started by immigrants through participation in a highly processed food franchise chain such as McDonalds or Dunkin Donut?

Which brings me to the heart of his non-sequiter post. Ok, I get it, you want to create a food market with a low barrier to entry for lower class folks to be able to bring products to market....

So you are saying the market is meant to be low-margin, which makes it very hard to "accumulate wealth" but allows someone to eek out a living as an entreprenuer?

Or do you want products at the market to be high-margin, which will restrict the customer base but will allow marketeers to earn "living wages" through their own entreprenuership?

And of course, all of this begs the question: Where do these marketeers gain access to their products and the capital to acquire inventory - especially if they are first time entepreneurs?

If of the $13 million in mysterious costs for the market there is $12 million allocated to provide high-risk small business loans or other access to capital to people fitting a specific economic profile, great.

Gusty Winds said...

...but your project seems to be offering something white middle-class people like. And one of the things these people like is the feeling that they are not greedily grasping at something they want, but helping the poor and minorities.

Bravo. Well written.

Perhaps the white middle class citizens of Madison can feel superior throwing their spare change in the tip jar of the minority who served them. That's diversity.

Jersey Fled said...

Someone should tell Mayor Soglin that the last train pulled out of the Reading Terminal in Philadelphia 32 years ago.

It is successful today because of its proximity to the Philadelphia Convention Center and because of its unique mix of ethnic foods and other specialties. You can get things there that you just can't find anywhere else. I don't know if anyone is selling produce there anymore.

Incidentally, most of the vendors there are Asian, Jewish and especially Amish.

buwaya said...

Cambodians dominate Dunkin Donut franchises.
Like Gujaratis dominate motel franchises like Motel 6

walter said...

rehajm,
That list needs
Free condoms for teens seeking pregnancy
Pictionary

wildswan said...

But however I call attention to Althouse as a "conservative blogger." I know the networks are looking for "conservatives" to be on the Sunday shows and they can't find them. Althouse IS a blogger. And conservatives comment on her blog. And she would be an addition to the Sunday shows - no one can deny any of that.

AJ Lynch said...

"Perhaps the white middle class citizens of Madison can feel superior throwing their spare change in the tip jar of the minority who served them. That's diversity."

Speaking of which and slightly off topic, but why don't the SJW's, who are fighting for $15 minimum wage, consider leaving a tip at their fast food store if they think the employees are so grossly underpaid?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Asians of most sorts in the US would not count as underprivileged minorities

That is true especially since the most entrepreneurial, savvy, smart and cut throat business people I know are Asians. (Chinese, Filipino, Thai, Hmong, Korean.) I highly admire them. They are also very family orientated with the extended family working their tails off to succeed. If they have a lazy ass family member, they are basically kicked out of the nest. The Hmong, down in the valley grow some of the best strawberries, black berries and other fruits on small plots of land. Hands down some of the best, ripest, sweetest, fruit evah!

Many of the Mexicans in our area are also very entrepreneurial. There is one lady who used to come by my office, when I was working and take orders for hand made tamales. Man!!! They were great. Then the County shut her down. They like the above groups just need the government to get the heck out of the way and stop making it harder to start a business.

We DO have some regular participants in our little local farmers' market and County fair in the Native American group category. Indian Tacos and some woven basketry. Of course those are mostly the Indian "Church Ladies" raising money for their religious institution. The rest of that 'suppressed' population gets tribal money from the Casino, sits on their butts and drinks. Does that count???

We don't need fancy schmancy liberal assistance to the tune of millions of dollars for people to make their own jobs and businesses. We just need the government to get out of the way!!!

Dr Weevil said...

Even Staunton, VA (pop. 24,000) can support a twice-a-week farmers' market 8 months a year, with very little government expenditure. It's held in the parking lot behind the Statler Brothers monument. The tent-pavilion things may be provided by the city - they're pretty similar - and I assume sellers plug into city power to run their freezers and such, but I don't see any other expense. As far as I can tell, no one from the city is even there to supervise (police HQ is a block away). Bluegrass bands come and play, but I think they work for tips. The Verona farmers' market (5 miles north) takes even less money: it's held on the loading dock at the county building, so it's already rainproof, and the only expenditure is for electricity, unless the county provides the folding cafeteria-style tables. Whoever provides them, they don't cost much. I would guess that thirteen million dollars would keep both markets running for something close to 6,500 years.

Are the sellers diverse? A third or more are Mennonites - not the hard-core buggy-driving Amish, and the men aren't all bearded, but the women do wear blue denim dresses and little white bonnets. One of the largest booths at both fairs is run by a large Hispanic family.

As for year-round markets, local farmers went and started one themselves a few years ago, renting a storefront and keeping it open almost 70 hours a week. Not a lot of vegetables this time of year, but delicious scones, pound cakes, and (above all) macaroons, plus locally-made honey, maple syrup, bread, granola, lots more, all with what looks like no government expenditure whatsoever. Can Madison farmers not do that? If not, why not? Are regulations oppressive? It wouldn't be surprising.

cubanbob said...

"The indoor market would allow residents of Madison and surrounding areas to showcase and sell their homemade goods. It would promote inclusiveness because there are not only white people that live in Madison, who would be participating. Wouldn't an indoor market that features goods from various ethnicities be unique, fun, useful in bad weather? Or are conservatives here opposed to anything that might appeal to the citizens of Madison and surrounding areas?"

Spoken like someone who doesn't pay any appreciable amount of money in taxes. If this is such a wonderful idea why don't you raise the money and fund it privately?

rhhardin said...

If he hauls you into food court, order the chicken fried rice.

buwaya said...

"So you are saying the market is meant to be low-margin, which makes it very hard to "accumulate wealth" but allows someone to eek out a living as an entreprenuer?

Or do you want products at the market to be high-margin, which will restrict the customer base but will allow marketeers to earn "living wages" through their own entreprenuership?

And of course, all of this begs the question: Where do these marketeers gain access to their products and the capital to acquire inventory - especially if they are first time entepreneurs?'

None of the above - public markets with low booth or table fees are attractive because of low barriers to entry, not low or high margins. Most goods sold in such markets are mainly value-added via labor, such as produce and handicrafts. Also most such entrepreneurs bring skills to the product that are not typical of the US underclass. Thats why so many are immigrants, such as Asians.

Speaking as a fellow who used to sell "clone" PC's and accessories at weekend computer shows across the SF Bay Area.

gspencer said...

The Devil, Muslims, and liberals hate to be mocked.

So the lesson to be learned is,

to mock the daylights outta them.

Alex said...

So basically it's a big virtual-signalling campaign. Gotcha.

Alex said...

Sorry I meant virtue.

Gabriel said...

@MadisonMan and others asking what farmer's markets have in winter:

My experience is Minneapolis and western Wisconsin. The produce they have is the same as what's in your supermarket, delivered by the same truck, but at farmer's market prices. Have a look at the trash sometime.

Gusty Winds said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
steve uhr said...

His prior blog entry say:

"That's why I threw out the 2009 plan for a Madison public market that focused on expensive prepared foods for tourists, and insisted on one that sold vegetables with dirt on them, like carrots, beets, and tomatoes. Yes, there will be prepared foods, quality, prepared and wholesome foods, but the merchants and the shoppers served will be less than cosmopolitan elites."

Spoken like a true cosmopolitan elite.

Alex said...

I tell you the day Ann appears on Tucker Carlson tonight, I will don my Pepe costume and do a rain dance in celebration.

Alex said...

Interesting that the only time I've ever seen liberals praise obscene profit-making is when it comes to Apple Inc. I guess they are religiously devoted to their iPhones...

steve uhr said...

What's his problem with tourists? Bringing in tourists would benefit the city. Should be near the top of his priority list.

Alex said...

I thought Whole Foods was destroyed once and for all by South Park.

walter said...

Will have to move a lot of dirty veggies to cover a $15/hr minimum wage.

pdug said...

He mentions Reading Terminal Market in philly (which is near the subway, but not an active train line anymore)

But he doesn't mention the Italian Market, which as far as I can tell is a completely self-generated entrepreneurial space, needing no government intervention.

pdug said...

It was started by an italian guy setting up a boarding house. Can you start boarding houses in Madison?

http://italianmarketphilly.org/experience-the-market/

TWW said...

Althouse: words of advice...Madison, Wisconsin is not the enter of the universe. Burst your bubble.

Fernandinande said...

Alex said...
So basically it's a big virtual-signalling campaign. Gotcha.


I'd take Crony Capitalism for $13,000,000, Alex! *

Who pays the $13M? Taxpayers, not investors; therefore not honest capitalism.
Who gets the $13M? Construction companies (etc) and an out of state architecture outfit, not poor people; therefore not socialism.

*Thanks for being named Alex.

BJM said...

You won the argument at underpants-gnomish.

When will people not up to the task stop trying to deconstruct an Althouse post? It never goes well.

Ivy said...

ALTHOUSE FOR MAYOR!

Where can we contribute

Levi Starks said...

Welcome to the world of conservatism, where be disparaged without regard to you race or gender, or educational status.

traditionalguy said...

In August and September Santa Barbara does a local farmers market done by shutting down 3 blocks of Main Street near the harbor. The have two rows of covered canopies in the street with the foot traffick going down the middle.

And Santa Barbara is three times as rich and snooty as Madison. The food and the prices are good.

Santa Barbara was developed as an exclusive wealthy guys' from NYC and Chicago's retirement destination since 1880. The weather is perfect for old people. Warm in Winter being warmed by the sun directly to the south ( which that the coastline faces in that jog of Southern California coast) and cooled by the ocean currents in the summer, as is all of the Pacific coastline for about 10 miles or so inland until it encounters Mtns.

gerry said...

Most excellent, Professor. Go get 'em!

David Begley said...

The race/diversity claim is just a cover story for blowing so much taxpayer money.

I did go to the Capitol Square Farmers' Market and bought some cheese.

d_men3 said...

The Dane County Farmers Market (on the square during the summer) is actually year round. They move indoors to the Monona Terrace or the Senior Center during the winter.

see dcfm.org for what they sell during the winter.

walter said...

Maybe they could sell..MUFFINS!

Ann Althouse said...

Althouse belongs on the blog. I retired as a law professor because I wanted to specialize. I don't belong in these 2-sided debates. I need my freedom.

Curious George said...

"Want to watch the Packers game?"

My favorite game of all time was a Packer game. 2015 NFC Championship Game versus the Seahawks. The Packers collapsed, blew a 12 point lead in the last four minutes and ended up losing in overtime.

The losing Packers flew back to "Titletown" while the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl. Part of the rich history of the NFL.

Sayyid said...

@Bushman, More like the SJW version of STFU.

Well, yes, point taken. I would simply point out that "Polite Company" has been culturally appropriated by SJWs for a while now.

Unknown said...

Althouse stirs the pot then claims innocence when her commentariat show themselves to be dullards with no imagination. I suspect Madison is charming to Althouse in part because of its unique "personality", it quirkiness. It's not your typical boring suburb. Why turn it into something that resembles it?

Sigivald said...

Curious George said: "I'm not siding with Soglin, but in his defense, there is a high likelihood that he was totally baked when he blogged that."

As Hunter Thompson said, "there's no room in the drug world for amateurs."

Earnest Prole said...

“Diversity/inclusion/racial equity” is an incantation that protects bien-pensant white liberals against evil self-doubting thoughts.

walter said...

Imagination indeed, unknown. Why didn't he link to or quote the "analysis"?

Sigivald said...

Also, am I the only one annoyed by "reeking in"?

Something can reek of something.

Things soak in, perhaps.

lemondog said...

Philly again.........Rittenhouse Square Farmers' Market

Curious George said...

"Unknown said...
Althouse stirs the pot then claims innocence when her commentariat show themselves to be dullards with no imagination. I suspect Madison is charming to Althouse in part because of its unique "personality", it quirkiness. It's not your typical boring suburb. Why turn it into something that resembles it?"

Madison already is a freak show. There's nothing "quirky" or "exciting" about pissing away upwards of $20 million for a project that has no real plan and a murky goal.

David said...

Soglin needs to do a fact check regarding his York, Pa. comparison. According to the 2010 Census, York is 28% African American in population. That's about 3.5 times greater a proportion than Madison's 7.3%. The Hispanic populations of the two cities are about identical, around 7%.

It's pretty embarrassing that the only data he cites is wildly wrong. The 28% black population of York has resulted in virtually no black vendors at their market. Not a good sign for Madison.

David said...

I've been to the fabulous summer farmers market in Madison many times.

Overwhelming white.

Gusty Winds said...

Curious George said...

My favorite game of all time was a Packer game. 2015 NFC Championship Game versus the Seahawks. The Packers collapsed, blew a 12 point lead in the last four minutes and ended up losing in overtime.

Hey...take it easy...

I'm a fan of your opinions and politics, but somethings just cross the line...

David said...

The York Pa. market is open three Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, year round, from 6AM to 2PM. 24 hours a week, and a considerable part of that setup and close down. Not all vendors are there every day.

That's not going to support a $13 million investment. Why does Madison think they will do any better?

I don't think they have done diddly squat in real market research. Solgin's assertion that this is a form of capitalism is ludicrous. There is no way that private capital would make this investment, especially in competition with Madison's already existing and very successful summer market.

hstad said...

AA, your retirement has let you be free and not hamstrung by PC! Look you've become an overnight conservative - LOL.

However, the mayor with his statement proves he's an imbecile. How?

Blogger Bill, Republic of Texas hints at it when he said:

".....That is why the city had to create a fourth farmers market that is inclusive....."

But Madison is 84% white which means the mayor will need money from Soros to bus in minorities to offset Madison's whiteness. Truly unbelievable how we continue to elect idiots who spend all their time wasting taxpayers monies.

Rusty said...


Blogger mccullough said...
Flea markets would be great. But most of the Drive-In movie parks closed.


Orange County Cal. flea market is in one of the community colleges parking lot. At any time there are at least three produce sellers.

Ron Winkleheimer said...

Something tells me the Mayor is not going to react well to the good Professor challenging him. They seldom do.

walter said...

hstad said...you've become an overnight conservative - LOL.
--
A couple weeks ago or less she was "Obama Voter" at Instapundit.
I just hope her fame isn't making her go Bob Dole on us: "Althouse belongs at.."

JaimeRoberto said...

I wonder how Mr. Soglin feels about Trump calling out private citizens on Twitter. At least he didn't call Althouse sad and overrated.

Curious George said...

"But Madison is 84% white which means the mayor will need money from Soros to bus in minorities to offset Madison's whiteness"

Most of Madison blacks and Hispanics live nowhere near the site. They live well east down Washington, or way on the SE and SW sides.

David said...

"My experience is Minneapolis and western Wisconsin. The produce they have is the same as what's in your supermarket, delivered by the same truck, but at farmer's market prices. Have a look at the trash sometime."

The Madison market in summer is way better than that. Fabulous food. I can do without most of the crafts, but that is just me.

John said...

Do any trains actually use Reading Station in Philadelphia?

I've been to the station a number of times and never seen a train or any signs directing me to trains. After being abandoned for a number of years it was converted to a rather nice convention center. I go for trade shows and conferences.

Is the Philly market in a train station? I've been there a number of times. IT is a great place to get breakfast before a trade show. Never seen a train there, either. There is a subway station across the street. Does that count?

Am I missing something or does himself da mare not know what he is talking about here.

John Henry

Unknown said...

In the prior post I noted that the farmers market in my town (in a parking lot, so not $14million) is in a town as white as Madison, the "farmers" are white and the customers are whiter than the shoppers at local grocery stores, because the produce is more expensive than Walmart. It is a luxury market. Almost none of the "farmers" have this as a sole business, to my knowledge.
Furthermore, minorities in the midwest are not into farming--they are urban. The farmers are german and scandanavian and corporate. So a farmers market will not help minorities start a business. Selling other things? Most craft hobby people are also white. I fail to see how this will help diversity.

AJ Lynch said...

SEPTA regional rail train station is a block away John. It's a suburban transit line that covers Philly area and will take you to Amtrak's 30th Street Station too [15-16 block ride]. Or you can take the SEPTA Market-Frankford El that also goes to 30th Street Station.

lemondog said...

Ya gotta love the guy.......re: reeking in socialism

Per Wiki... In 1975, Mayor Soglin gave the key to the city to Cuban Prime Minister Fidel Castro...

n.n said...

[Class] diversity excludes the individual requiring a liberal interpretation to be inclusive, or principled. Judge people by the "color of their skin"... A Pro-Choice concept favored by "Progressives".

As for the government market, the regulatory effect must be especially burdensome. In other parts of the country, the development is private and organic. The reconciliation of associations and interests between people are too.

Alex said...

Are there 2 Unknowns? One conservative, one liberal lunatic?

AJ Lynch said...

Yes Alex.

JML said...

He thinks that was sarcastic? He better hope Laslo doesn't get over there and make an observation or two...

tcrosse said...

The Midtown Global Marketplace in Minneapolis (which is not as white as it used to be) is in an old Sears store in the middle of one of the less fashionable neighborhoods. A lot more of these will be coming available, possibly also in Madison.

rehajm said...

Furthermore, minorities in the midwest are not into farming

This is one of things government grants are attempting to change. Or so the grants say.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Furthermore, minorities in the midwest are not into farming

This is one of things government grants are attempting to change.

How. Exactly.....how????

Darrell said...

Someone has to open up a stall at the Madison Peoples Market selling artisanal knots.

Darrell said...

Barack Obama could run a falafel cart successfully if he had $2 million/year of Federal grant money.

tcrosse said...

Barack Obama could run a falafel cart successfully if he had $2 million/year of Federal grant money.
No he couldn't.

Fernandinande said...

lemondog said...
In 1975, Mayor Soglin gave the key to the city to Cuban Prime Minister Fidel Castro...


Mayor Paul Soglin remembers Fidel Castro as 'a popular leader who inspired generations of Cubans' Nov 27, 2016 46

Inspired them to escape their prison island and head for Miami.

Bernard Castro was much cooler than Fidel.

GRW3 said...

So, you're related to the Piranha brothers? Doug or Dinsdale?

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Althouse unleashed!

I dunno. I miss the more subdued pre-retirement Althouse. Fewer but more reasoned comments then. The place is becomming an alt-right frenzy and flaming zone.

Still, since IowaHawk went to Tweets it has been slim pickings to find a good column length bitch-slap.

==========

As to the Marmers' Farquets, I would recommend start small and go with what seems to work. Small towns and cities along the Border we have lived in, they seem to last about a year.

San Antonio has had a produce exchange under the freeway since the 1960's, when folks would drive 150 miles from Laredo to buy and sell. The area between there and the Convention Center is now filled in with restaurants, the Mexican Mercado, strolling mariachis.

Phunctor said...

"Disturb rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books".

Lars said...

Only in Madison could a law professor who is pro-choice, pro-LGBT rights, and who voted for Obama be called a "conservative blogger."

rehajm said...

This is one of things government grants are attempting to change.

How. Exactly.....how????


It's all very underpants-gnomish.

Meade said...

AJ Lynch said...
"Yes Alex."

LOL

Bay Area Guy said...

There is good reason why the analysis of the Public Market includes a focus on diversity, inclusiveness, and equity.

Diversity of intellectual and political thought? I think not.

Inclusiveness of Trump supporters and Evangelical Christians? I think not.

Equity? You mean like focusing on poor whites in West Virginia? I think not.


If Althouse can look beyond her own exclusive world, one reeking in privilege, perhaps she will escape the shackles of her rigid assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism. At times these plans are crafted by liberals reeking in capitalism.

I would't say AA has a "rigid assumption" that everything in Madison is crafted by liberals, reeking in socialism.

I would say it's a fair assumption that everything in Madison is crafted by socialists, reeking in liberalism.


rehajm said...

OT: Underpants Gnomish's entrepreneurial Scottish friend Underpants Haimish was a wee bit of a colossal failure.

Michael K said...

Only in Madison could a law professor who is pro-choice, pro-LGBT rights, and who voted for Obama be called a "conservative blogger."

Yes but that says more about Madison than Althouse. Does anyone think Madison WI is not a center of leftism ?

Berkeley CA is about as leftist and nobody denies that. Berkeley even has its own foreign policy.

Michael K said...

Furthermore, minorities in the midwest are not into farming

This is one of things government grants are attempting to change. Or so the grants say.


If there is one thing government grants are useful for it is teaching minorities to farm.

Pardon me. I have a fit of the giggles.

Unknown said...

"Only in Madison could a law professor who is pro-choice, pro-LGBT rights, and who voted for Obama be called a "conservative blogger.""

She's labeled a conservative blogger based on her commentariat. Why do so many conservatives comment here? Because she throws out enough red meat to keep them engaged.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

"Are there 2 Unknowns? One conservative, one liberal lunatic?"

Several are liberals, two or three are conservative lunatics.

Original Mike said...

Someone said..."Furthermore, minorities in the midwest are not into farming"
rehajm said..."This is one of things government grants are attempting to change."
DBQ asked..."How. Exactly.....how????"


By giving them money, of course.

I would ask 'Why???'. Is manipulating people like this an ethical function of government? The number of potential unintended consequences is probably infinite.

Gabriel said...

@David:The Madison market in summer is way better than that.

And so these are, in summer. But you're not getting fresh local produce in winter in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

buwaya said...

"Why do so many conservatives comment here? "

Because Althouse is a superlative salonnière, and conservatives have good taste.

Clark said...

As soon as I read the first part of the post I just thought, 'oh man...she's gonna tear this poor bastard apart.' That was very entertaining.

madAsHell said...

"is expensive and losing its charm as it is now a major tourist destination."

That sentence doesn't make any sense. Expensive because they charge what the market will bear, and it is still charming because the place is always packed as a major tourist destination.

I'm guessing Mr. Soglin isn't very bright.

Michael said...

buwaya

Bingo. Plus, there are tons of very accomplished men and women here who write and argue well, often elegantly. We are well led by Althouse who provides the so-called red meat that stimulates and nourishes.

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