December 12, 2016

The NYT headline says "C.I.A. Judgment on Russia Built on Swell of Evidence" and I'm instantly skeptical about whether what's in the article supports that headline.

Because there's so much fake news these days.

Ever notice how cries of "fake news!" slip out of the news when the news outlets have some fake news to slip over? Oh, first let me show you Trump's new tweet:



Now, let's get down to the work of checking to see whether the NYT really presents evidence to justify that headline. I'm reading every word of the rather long article but will only give you the actual evidence offered for the proposition that the Russian government intervened in the U.S. election for the purpose of helping Donald Trump win. There's a lot of material in the article that is not about that at all. I'm excluding that, which is padding if the headline is the correct headline. Go to the link if you want to see what it is.

The first relevant material comes in the 16th paragraph: The DNC's servers and John Podesta's email account were hacked and a lot of damaging and embarrassing material was released onto the internet.

Next:
American intelligence officials believe that Russia also penetrated databases housing Republican National Committee data, but chose to release documents only on the Democrats. The committee has denied that it was hacked.
So here's the crucial disputed question of fact: Were the GOP servers also hacked? We're not told what evidence supports the belief that the GOP servers were also hacked, but the GOP says they were not. Yet some "intelligence officials believe" it was. Why? Where's the "swell of evidence" you were going to tell me about?

Even if that fact were nailed down, there would still be more leaps needed to get to the conclusion. First: Was there any embarrassing material? What? If I knew what, I could begin to think about the next question: Why would embarrassing material be withheld? All I can see from the supposed "swell of evidence" here is an assumption that if the DNC was hacked, the GOP committee was also hacked, and that if bad material was found in the DNC server, bad material would also be found in the GOP server, and since we only saw the DNC material, there must have been a conscious decision — by whom?! — to leak only the DNC things and that decision must have been made to help Trump win. That's not evidence itself, only inference based on evidence.

Finally, there are a few paragraphs about why "Putin and the Russian government" might be thought to prefer a Trump presidency to a Clinton presidency. Trump and Putin have given each other some compliments.

That's no swell of evidence! That's a lot of leaping guesswork. And this is nothing more than I already read in the article the NYT put out on December 9th, which I put effort into combing through and rejected for the same reasons I'm putting in this new post.

This might be the biggest fake news story I've ever seen!

Squirreled away at the end of the article is the admission that people at the FBI are skeptical about the conclusion. An unnamed "senior American law enforcement official" told the NYT that "the Russians probably had a combination of goals, including damaging Mrs. Clinton and undermining American democratic institutions" and that "any disagreement between the F.B.I. and the C.I.A., and suggested that the C.I.A.’s conclusions were probably more nuanced than they were being framed in the news media." The NYT observes that the FBI holds itself to "higher standards of proof," since its work is geared toward prosecuting criminal cases in court, but: "The C.I.A. has a broader mandate to develop intelligence assessments."

I'm staring at that headline again. You said there was a "swell of evidence." Shouldn't that satisfy the FBI's higher standard rather than the good-enough-for-the-CIA standard? I think I see the reason for the different standards. The CIA is concerned about what might happen in the future. But why are we trusting them in an FBI/CIA disagreement about what happened in the past?

The very end of the NYT article is about the FBI investigating "numerous possible connections between Russians and members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle, including former Trump aides like Paul Manafort and Carter Page, as well as a mysterious and unexplained trail of computer activity between the Trump Organization and an email account at a large Russian bank, Alfa Bank." This investigation began in the summer and seems to have played out by September and October — for reasons that are "are not entirely clear" and that the FBI won't talk about.

Speaking of embarrassing material... that headline, with that content... in the NYT. So awful.

I'm distracted into reading about the word "swell" in my dictionary (the OED). One usually reads of a swell of the sea or of music or emotion.  "Fenc'd no where from the least Surge or Swell of the Water," wrote Daniel Dafoe. "And up the valley came a swell of music on the wind," wrote Tennyson.  "Of all the actors who flourished in my time... Bensley had most of the swell of soul, was greatest in the delivery of heroic conceptions, the emotions consequent upon the presentment of a great idea to the fancy," wrote Charles Lamb.

But swell of evidence...

Swell is the talk of upwelling emotion and romanticism.

Swell is a tell.

412 comments:

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damikesc said...

I want proof that you care if your President Elect may be an agent of a foreign government and a danger to the security of the country and well being of our democracy.

If Putin wanted to influence US politics, he'd just donate more to the Clinton Foundation.

Good to see Progressives argue that providing information to voters is a bad thing.

You don't KNOW that is is no evidence Mac

We don't know if there is no evidence that high-ranking Democrats are running a pedophile ring out of a pizza joint.

Brando said...

Whoa, a little late to this party...over 400 comments. I'm sure anything I have to say on this has already been beaten to death earlier.

So instead does anyone else agree with me that we should move Christmas to late January to give us extra time between holidays? I'm trying to make that happen here but the wife ain't buying.

Qwinn said...

If Hillary had won and conservatives were blaming Putin for it, our resident lefties wouldn't just be calling it a conspiracy theory, they'd be calling it treason.

And this would be true even if conservatives had ironclad evidence of their claims.

320Busdriver said...

You know the NYT is trying to rehab itself now that they've hired Glenn Thrush to cover the Trump WH. LuLz

MPH said...

Forget any possible hacking and look at public Russian propaganda channels like Russia Today. It is absurd to pretend that the Putin regime wasn't trying to influence the election in Trump's favor. It's all in the PUBLIC record.

tim in vermont said...

Yeah, giving the American people true information about Hillary would sure be a heinous tactic, if it's true!

Rusty said...



Blogger Guildofcannonballs said...
"NotquiteunBuckley said...
"When I was in Pueblo and headed North, a junkie transient was singing "Highway to Hell" by ACDC.

Just the chorus.

I don't know if that all he knew, or all he wanted to share.

I don't done guess I ever will."


OMG!

Pynchon coulda wrote that.

damikesc said...

You know the NYT is trying to rehab itself now that they've hired Glenn Thrush to cover the Trump WH. LuLz

With that move, if I were Trump, I'd remove the NYT as a WH press corps member and force them to apply for daily passes to the briefings. Hiring a hack to run the WH reporters for the papers is a clear indication that they are not a media company.

Yeah, giving the American people true information about Hillary would sure be a heinous tactic, if it's true!

That's the whole thing. The MEDIA is upset that the people were INFORMED of stuff. The MEDIA is mad about that.

MacMacConnell said...

If Hillary's and her campaign's actions in trying to delegitimize Trump's election now negates her concession speech, does Trump have any reason to not to reverse his "I will not prosecute Hillary" statements?

Kyzer SoSay said...

Brando: I like your thinking. My wife would also refuse, but it would be a nice relief.

For my part, I think Hillary is just incompetent enough to blunder us into a war with Russia, so if they felt the same in Moscow and released hacked emails to either undermine her presidency and the DNC or get Trump elected (in the longest of long fucking shots), I can't say I blame them. Honestly, I'm not happy that anyone (I'm not convinced it was Russia, at least not both hacks) was able to hack our politicians and political parties (and the fucking White House itself, as cannot be mentioned enough), which is more an indictment of those who were hacked in the first place for not having competent security. However as a conservative who has serous doubts about both major parties and sides Republican because there's no realistic alternative right now, I hope if Russia has emails that detail similar RNC corruption that they be released sooner rather than later. Might be a fast-track to skimming, if not outright draining, the swamp. But I'm also betting "they" don't.

Michael K said...

Swung by to see if the loonies were still upset.

If Putin wanted to influence US politics, he'd just donate more to the Clinton Foundation.

Good to see Progressives argue that providing information to voters is a bad thing.

You don't KNOW that is is no evidence Mac

We don't know if there is no evidence that high-ranking Democrats are running a pedophile ring out of a pizza joint.


We don't know that there is no evidence that Hillary eats babies.

Well, Huma does not count as a baby.

gnome said...

This time the Russians got it right, not like when they tried to back John McCain against Obama back in 2008. McCain knows what he's talking about- just ask him.

Impressive too, how the Russians managed to score Trump the Republican nomination. No fingerprints there either, but how else can you explain Trump winning? Jeb Bush must be fuming?

Voters' preferences couldn't have anything to do with any of it, could they?

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