December 9, 2016

Creating a "fake news" tag and applying it retrospectively.

I'd been avoiding it, sticking to "journalism" and "propaganda" and "fake" — all well-established tags on this blog. But today, I gave in — because "fake news" is not just the subject of fake news. It also means the deployment of the term "fake news" and that's something I need to keep track of.

But having applied the tag retrospectively with a word search and an automatic function, I had to go in by hand and "keep track of" it backwards, into the past. There are recent utterly on-point applications of the tag. I just want to highlight a few older things:

May 5, 2016: "Gloria Steinem hopes Donald Trump will lose 'in a very definitive and humiliating way."
She wants humiliation. What is that about?
Oh, Gloria. Grandiosity goes before the fall. Your imperious arrogance looks so stupid now. As for the "fake news" tag. It didn't belong and was removed.

April 11, 2016: "It's sad for the paper. You know, it used to be considered a major paper. And now, it's like a super-market throw-out."
Said Donald Trump, invited to comment on the stupid Onion-like front page of yesterday's Boston Globe, which was all fake news about the horrors of an imagined Trump presidency.
That's me, using the term before the use of the term became a thing. And it's in the context of anti-Trump fake news. I'd forgotten about that Boston Globe front page story:
Is that ground-zero of the "fake news" subject? Maybe all the later effort to point to pro-Trump things as fake was generated to cover up the embarrassing Boston Globe screwup.

October 27, 2015: "I am convinced... that the way the Drive-Bys and the Democrat Party and the left are attempting to reconstitute their media monopoly is via Twitter and Facebook." That's a quote from Rush Limbaugh. He continues:
"In a way, the sewer of Twitter and Facebook is the left attempting to corral everyone into their playground, their way of thinking, and create a new legacy media to replace what the big three networks had back in 1988. You populate Twitter and Facebook with enough political activists disguised as citizens in their underwear in their basements just tapping out comments and posting left-wing news stories from AP, Reuters, Washington Post, New York Times, and that's how you reconstitute your monopoly. You don't constitute a network media monopoly, but you constitute a mode-of-thinking monopoly by transferring your polluted, perverted way of thinking to social media to infect as many minds as possible who are incapable of critical thinking anymore, because it isn't taught."
So Rush was complaining about fake news more than a year before the election, and it was in the context of liberal media trying to control everything. The flip today is that you have people like Hillary Clinton contending that social media needs to be regulated to control "fake news" that hurts liberals.

December 8, 2014: "Credulous journalist ponders why journalists are so credulous." Here, "fake" comes up in the context of a phrase that should be seen as an ancestor of "fake news": "fake but accurate":
The expression "fake but accurate" is really all we need to understand the problem, and it's pathetic that journalists at the WaPo level haven't fully internalized the lessons of these old scandals. Tweeting one day and cogitating over the general problem the next — it's so sloppy, so lazy, so stupid.
July 10, 2014: "It's hard to fathom why a movie about Rathergate — with Robert Redford as Dan Rather — is being made."
Years ago, Redford played the role of another newsman, Bob Woodward, in "All the President's Men," the story of 2 dogged journalists who were wildly successful. They brought down a President and sparked an American love affair with "investigative journalism." What's become of that today? Maybe this new movie will seriously address what has happened to the profession that Bob Woodward (and his partner Carl Bernstein) made us see as heroic and centered on truth-seeking. In Rathergate, a once-illustrious network, centered on ruining a presidential candidate, faked a document.

The movie will be called "Truth." Ironically? I doubt it....

115 comments:

AprilApple said...

More time travel Fake News.

Big coordinated lies on behalf of the democrat party are peachy keen.

Chuck said...

I am one of those people who are greatly tempted to agree with Rush when he calls
Twitter and Facebook a "sewer."

But of course, the greatest proponent of Twitter in the history of American politics is... #realDonaldTrump.

MayBee said...

I'm glad you are doing this.

But I think there is a difference between news that isn't true and things actually being given the label "fake news". Not a difference in substance, but a difference when the label is actually deployed.

Matthew Sablan said...

Fake News: Calling the knife attack a shooter before the police released the information.

Not Fake News: People with opinions that differ from yours writing opinion columns.

I get the feeling that politicians are going to do more to stop the second than the first.

Bob Ellison said...

"Fake news" is more important as a slogan than as a term of any kind of art. The American left wants to get the word out that PizzaGate is why Hillary lost, and "fake news" is the way to spread that word.

Ann Althouse said...

"But I think there is a difference between news that isn't true and things actually being given the label "fake news". Not a difference in substance, but a difference when the label is actually deployed."

That's the main reason I created the tag -- to keep track of the use of the term. It can be used narrowly or broadly and the choice of HOW to use it is not neutral.

rehajm said...

Yes, this is an interesting exercise but I believe that despite references to fake news in the past the latest iteration is a clear synthetic construct invented recently in one of the leftie backwaters of Think Progress or Hillary's camp. It's a weaponized version of the term to quash legitimate discussion of leftie spin and dark ops and to delegitimize factual reporting that's harmful to lefties.

rehajm said...

It's used to muddy the waters

Clinton moves come from a moldy old playbook. They are telegraphed punches.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

"Believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see."

I looked that up on the internet, just now, to see who said it.

First hit: Edgar Allan Poe. Second hit: Benjamin Franklin.

I stopped right there, satisfied that I'd proven that which I sought to prove, which was that caring about who said it is foolish.

A long time ago, maybe in middle school, I'd been told that it was Abraham Lincoln.

Which I never believed, so the advice actually turns out to be of some utility.

Fen said...

Why create a movie about Memogate? Simple, to rewrite history. I remember something similar, a movie about the JFK assassination. They played very loose with the truth, and the result was the public substituted the movie's "truths" with the actual facts without even realizing it, because they had seen it on TV. It was a deliberate attempt to create "conventional wisdom".

jaydub said...

@AprilApple - thanks for the link. I believe that succinctly illustrates the concept.

I'm interested in what the Democrats hope to gain with this "fake news" exercise. If it's trying to make this the excuse for Hillary's loss then that isn't going to be much help in the midterms. Seems to me the more they fantasize, the longer it takes to turn the Titanic around. Is a puzzlement!

alan markus said...

Issue used to be too many "uninformed" people, now we have shifted to too many "misinformed" people. Upside is that a light can be shined on the misinformation.

Facebook should have an extra step before hitting the "share" or "like" button - a "Think Before You Click" button would help to slow down the Click Monkeys.

traditionalguy said...

Rathergate was the origin of the cottage industry of internet posters who have been destroying the power of Media Hoax News dissemination.

That lead to the a cottage industry of Youtubes exposers of many faked news stories seen on TV that turn out to be Hoaxes when carefully analyzed. Hillary wants countermeasures to use against the Hoax News narrative that her Clinton Gang has professionally used for 30 years.

The list goes on and on: TWA 700; 9/11 Airliners; JFK single assassin; Sandy Hook shooting; the JFK Jr airplane crash, etc..

But the serious reaction only came after Pizzagate. That one is scaring Hillary's gang big time.

Larry J said...

Some other examples of "fake news" that come to mind:

The Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax where a journalist later admitted that "the narrative was right but the facts were wrong."

All of the news articles that cite the bogus statistic about "one in 5 college women are sexually assaulted."

The Rolling Stone article about a gang rape at a fraternity.

"White Hispanic" George Zimmerman and how NBC edited the 911 call to make him look racist.

ABC News wiring a truck with explosives for a story about pickup trucks with exploding fuel tanks.

CBS News 60 Minutes segments on the dangers of alar on apples and how they rigged an Audi car to make it look like the car accelerator would fully depress itself.

Walter Cronkite's coverage of the Tet Offensive in 1968.

There are many others. These are only a few that came to my mind.

Fen said...

Foggy memory. I'm trying to recall an older (2000?) incident where - as yes - Jason Blair of the NYTs fabricating stories.

There was another too, some woman who wrote about the homeless or crack culture or somesuch. Turned out she never left her apartment, it was all fiction.

holdfast said...

Obviously the Left/MSM want to use the "Fake News" term to bundle up alternative/conservative and non-traditional news sources with the truly fake stuff out there (and there is some stuff that's utterly fake - like a website for a newspaper that doesn't exist). Instead of pushing back and arguing why, say, ZeroHedge isn't fake (it's mostly not, but some of their posts are nutty), we just need to broaden the term and apply it to the MSM so it becomes useless. My favorite examples are the NYT McCain-Isseman story and the "Michael Brown was shot in the back while his hands were in the air" narrative.

The former was an obvious move to influence an election with a story and had no backup at all and was never even defended by the NYT. The second is propagation of a false narrative that has led pretty directly to riots and the assassination of police officers.

holdfast said...

@Larry - remember when NBC rigged the "side-saddle" fuel tanks on a GMC pickup truck to explode?

Nonapod said...

The left certainly is really pushing this "dangerous Fake News" narrative in a painfully obvious and pathetic way. I imagine it serves two purposes: 1) As a possible desperate explanation for themselves as to how Trump could've possibly won. 2) As a counternarrative and general FUD generation weapon in the Great Culture War. Theoretically it could have the effect of casting doubt on legitimate news stories that negatively effect their side I guess. Since the "Fake News" thing is based on a real phenomenon, it's defensible as a general argument I guess.

The irony of course is that there is no shortage of examples of what a lot of people would term actual "Fake News" stories all over the Main Stream Media that are given an air of legitimacy simply because they appear there (rather than some obviously junky low budget website that crops up on a social media feed). That sort of thing is infinitely more destructive than those dumb sites.

Fen said...

Another one, I think HuffPo or ThinkProgress, where a soldier in Iraq was writing fake stories they published. He had a girlfriend on staff that defended him. I think she is still there.

There are so many of these that you just start to ignore them as examples. After a few hundred you simply judge the media as liars and discard all the instances from memory.

And I think most who start down this path began when they read a news story about something they were directly involved in and realized the media had gotten it all wrong. Next comes the leap that maybe everything else the write is rubbish too.

Fen said...

And then you remember the people you went to college with who were going into Journalism. Not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Sydney said...

@ Fen - that was The New Republic.

rhhardin said...

She wants humiliation. What is that about?

Klavan says women watch romcoms for the guy apologizing.

Fen said...

Yes! Thanks. Getting old. Forgetting my address. ;)

Big Mike said...

An awful lot of left-leaning people -- including nearly all journalists writing for major newspapers or anchoring for major news channels -- seem to have this notion that their emotions are a reliable guide to what's real and what's not. I don't know whether right-leaning journalists writing for major newspapers would do the same, but Peggy Noonan (admittedly a columnists and not a journalist) makes me suspect the worst.

Consequently when something that is objectively real -- Michael Brown could not possibly have had the wounds on his forearms that he had if his hands were up in a gesture of surrender -- then that's the fake news because the real new is that he had his hands up and was saying "Don't shoot." Because they want to believe that Michael Brown was a sweet kid who was shot by a nasty, racist cop.

So today we don't buy the newspapers and don't turn on the news channels because it's all fake. They would have folded, except that wealthy lefties run them at a loss, presumably in expectation of favors that will be a long time coming from a Republican president and Republican congress.

YoungHegelian said...

@Fen,

Another one, I think HuffPo or ThinkProgress, where a soldier in Iraq was writing fake stories they published. He had a girlfriend on staff that defended him. I think she is still there.

That was The New Republic, under the editorship of Franklin Foer. I remember because that incident was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I didn't like the way Foer was taking the magazine, & that he was permitting such obvious fabrications to be printed (chasing a dog through the streets of Baghdad in a tank, really?) meant TNR's worthwhile days were over. I never renewed the subscription. Even after subscribing for 20 years, they never bothered to ask why I was leaving. I suspect they had already heard the reasons from far too many other subscribers.

Larry J said...

holdfast said...
@Larry - remember when NBC rigged the "side-saddle" fuel tanks on a GMC pickup truck to explode?


You're right, it was Dateline NBC that did that in 1992. I misremembered it as being on ABC Nightline.

traditionalguy said...

While we are listing the exposed Fakes, we cannot forget the most massive and totally Faked News of all time: The great CO2 is a world ending pollutant nonsense. That one has cost a trillion dollars, 20 years in the creation, just to push a theory and cover up faked data to enable a stupid, massive theft.

campy said...

There was another too, some woman who wrote about the homeless or crack culture or somesuch. Turned out she never left her apartment, it was all fiction.

You're remembering Janet Cooke and her Pulitzer-winning "Jimmy's World" story.

Fen said...

Here we go. Scott Beauchamp and Elspeth Reeve making up war atrocities in Iraq

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/07/26/scott-thomas-steps-out-of-the-shadows/

Fen said...

Thanks Campy!

Owen said...

Very rich topic. Great citations of past fakery, and I suppose it has been with us from the Fall, when the Prince of Lies first took office.

I think Rathergate was a very influential example: it showed how the MSM could be taken down in hours by "an Army of Davids" (great book, BTW) who combined technical skills and Net access. It also generated the instant platinum meme of "Fake but Accurate," which I use almost daily.

It might be a good idea to help our young avoid being suckered too easily, by requiring them to read Duscussions of the "Big Lie" Techniques and Soviet disinformation programs. Also, everybody should read Frankfort's "On Bullshit." Every year.

Not sure how the disaggregation of MSM will affect this. It may mean a decline in signal/noise (if that's even possible) as the channel fills with chaff.

Bill Peschel said...

The "fake news" tag is not new to those who remember how "swift boating" was flipped by the Dems.

The original Swift Boat members who challenged Kerry's war record were about 80% correct in their assertions. Kerry didn't help by telling pretty outlandish stories about his service that were contradicted not only by the men he served with but his own logbooks. (His campaign website also claimed he earned a Silver Star with a V for valor, which the Navy stated it had never awarded in its entire history). Not to mention the fact that he "earned" three Purple Hearts (and his ticket home, according to the regs) without showing any actual injury.

After Kerry lost, "swiftboating" was promoted as a term for spreading fake news, when it was anything but.

Now we're seeing the same tag applied today. It's the Left's way of evading responsibility for their actions.

Big Mike said...

After the "Mary Tyler Moore Show" Ed Asner starred in a drama called "Lou Grant," where he played a big city newspaper editor. Most episodes were forgettable, but in one of them he chews out a reporter trying to spike a story about police corruption that implicates some of the reporter's friends on the force. Asner/Grant gives him a lofty speech about how when people plunk down their quarter for a paper* they expect to read the news and journalists like the two of them are expected to provide real news for their money. Very stirring. Today's journalists wouldn't understand what he was saying.

____________
* It was a long time ago. Today the newsstand price of the Washington Post is $2.00.

Bill Peschel said...

Owen: I think Rathergate was a very influential example: it showed how the MSM could be taken down in hours by "an Army of Davids" (great book, BTW) who combined technical skills and Net access. It also generated the instant platinum meme of "Fake but Accurate," which I use almost daily.

I agree with Owen, particularly because it was so blatant a forgery that nearly everyone who had worked with Word could see that those memos were fake. All you needed to do was show the animated GIF (from Little Green Footballs, before its owner went insane), and it's obvious they weren't real.

That they would go ahead with a movie about it and attempt to make Rather et all the good guys reminds me that someone should make a more cynical "Man Who Shot Liberty Valence."

It's as if they're not ashamed of being caught out anymore.

Roughcoat said...

Janet Cooke, Stephen Glass: Washington Post and New Republic, respectively. Fakes, frauds, phonies. Progressives.

Fernandinande said...

Pope Francis compares MSM to eating shit
"I think the media have to be very clear, very transparent, and not fall into — no offense intended — the sickness of coprophilia, that is, always wanting to cover scandals, covering nasty things, even if they are true," he said. "And since people have a tendency towards the sickness of coprophagia, a lot of damage can be done."

Roughcoat said...

Big Mike:

Appropriately, Ed Asner is as red as a fire engine. I mean, he's a doctrinaire Marxist.

MayBee said...

First hit: Edgar Allan Poe. Second hit: Benjamin Franklin.

Third: Marvin Gaye

traditionalguy said...

Point of order: News stories have been partially faked, since time began. But we are shocked now when some are pure fiction.

But making up a disaster events like a Hollywood ScFi movie with good production values and covering it by Media as if it is News is the development that we now face .Our Military started this with the faking an entire Patton Army that was set to invade France at Pas-de-Calais.

Fen said...

Oh Mathew Sheppard was also fake news. He wasn't killed because he was gay, he way killed from a drug deal gone bad. But say that today and you'll get "homophobe!" howls from the left. It was one of their successful fake narratives, unlike Micheal Brown.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/14/matthew-shepard-murder-wyoming-book

Chuck said...

Kudos for the recounting of the Dateline, WaPo, Rolling Stone, Duke lacrosse, Rathergate, etc. journalism scandals. All deserving of the condemnation they got, and much more.

But we have a regular commenter here at Althouse -- "Mick" -- who apparently believes the story that the Comet Ping Pong pizza shop in Washington DC did indeed serve as a front for a Clinton-sponsored child sexploitation ring.

I am in favor of starting in our own digital neighborhoods, to root out internet fakes.

Fernandinande said...

Eric the Fruit Bat said...
"Believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see."
I looked that up on the internet, just now, to see who said it.
First hit: Edgar Allan Poe. Second hit: Benjamin Franklin.


My hits were the diabetesdad's mama, Tom Parker and "someone from Loganville". Someone from Loganville is liable to be reliable.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Go to google trends and search for "fake news." Like this:
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=fake%20news
"Fake news" is the fakest news of all.

Fernandinande said...

Fen said...
Oh Mathew Sheppard was also fake news.

Short version: Sheppard would get roaring drunk and sexually harass people at bars until he was killed over money by an ex-boyfriend.

MayBee said...

About the rape statistics on campus: A Democrat has introduced a bill that would require colleges to put campus sexual assault on a student's transcripts.

exhelodrvr1 said...

The entire Kennedy Camelot saga, including the exaggerations of his experiences with PT109

Drago said...

"Lifelong Republican" Chuck: "I am in favor of starting in our own digital neighborhoods, to root out internet fakes."

Lol

The irony jokes write themselves.

Drago said...

"lifelong Republican" Chuck appears to be quite bitter about Trumps effective use of twitter to bypass a clearly biased press.

Other Republicans/conservatives might question why that is....

Matthew Sablan said...

"A Democrat has introduced a bill that would require colleges to put campus sexual assault on a student's transcripts."

-- Accusations. Assault accusations.

Assaults that are proven will be on a different, more important record.

Ann Althouse said...

"Coprophilia" means the love of shit. The eating of shit is "coprophagia."

Francisco D said...

Fake News:

The MSM insisting the Tet offensive was a disaster for American troops when it almost completely wiped out the Viet Cong.

NBC showing how a pickup truck (can't remember the manufacturer) would explode in an accident. However, it did not explode in staged accidents, so they had to simulate it with planted explosives.

Katie Couric, repeatedly throughout her career, making her adversaries look stupid with video editing tricks.

Dan Rather, Brian Williams, Jason Blair, Rolling Stone, etc. That's just off the top of my head.

Feel free to add to the list.

Fen said...

"And on to our next caller, Chuck...?"

"Thanks Rush, I'm a lifelong Republican, but I just can support these gun nuts. It obvious they are racist rednecks looking to gun down minorities in the streets. And another thing, we really haven't given Socialism a fair shot. Even Barry Goldwater said -

[click]

Tim said...

Wasn't it Twain that said "if you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you read the newspapers you are misinformed"?

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger Matthew Sablan said...
"A Democrat has introduced a bill that would require colleges to put campus sexual assault on a student's transcripts."

-- Accusations. Assault accusations.


College educated women are overrepresented in HR departments.

Fen said...

About the rape statistics on campus

Yah the 1 in 5 was more fake news. They study asked if you had ever had consensual sex while under the influence of alcohol and counted that as rape. As was some dweeb awkwardly leaning in for a kiss on a first date. Even if you turned to catch it on the cheek, you were raped.

Which means if you and your wife share a glass of wine at dinner and then have sex afterwards, you have "raped" her.

But OMG the women working themselves up into a frenzy over this "study" on social media.

JPS said...

For whatever reason, hearing the legacy media talk about fake news fooling people into voting differently, I'm remembering the line,

"They can't do that to our pledges."

"Only we can do that to our pledges!"

Matthew Sablan said...

Not: "You f'ed up. You trusted us."

Mike said...

What a post! Forgot about that entirely fake Boston Globe cover. Wow. Love the headline about the stock market crash. I'm really having a schadenfreutastic 2016 reviewing your list! And the Truth movie too. A fake history of real fake news and Hollywood can't bring themselves to tell the er Truth about it.

Bad Lieutenant said...

Fernandinande said...
Eric the Fruit Bat said...
"Believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see."
I looked that up on the internet, just now, to see who said it.
First hit: Edgar Allan Poe. Second hit: Benjamin Franklin.

My hits were the diabetesdad's mama, Tom Parker and "someone from Loganville". Someone from Loganville is liable to be reliable.

12/9/16, 10:21 AM

I thought it was Jimi Hendrix.

wildswan said...

Shoot the Messenger
Obama said after the election that the Democrats only need to get the message out, they don't need to change the message. Pelosi said the Democrats don't need a new direction, just an new electorate which understands all the Democrats have done for the middle class family. And Hillary said "fake news" caused her to lose the election. Why do they choose "the same as before but more?"

The problem for the Democrats is that either the Democrats have been repudiated by the workers which is impossible or the "non-college educated" had wrong ideas inserted into their tiny walnut-sized brains. Democrat conceit requires that the cause of all the losses be the walnut-brains having Wrong Ideas stealthily inserted like a deadly bug into their ears (and from there it's just a short step to what passes for brains with them). But who did the inserting? It can't be WAPO-NTY-ABC-NBC-CBS-MSNBC-LATIMES-TIME-NEWSWEEK-HUFFPO. Is Fox News/Rush/Althouse mightier than all these put together? Say that and we lose our advertisers. Then what?

OK the narrative is that "A dark river of fake news was spread "digitally" by the Russians" who are mightier than the NSA-CIA-FBI-WAPO-NTY-ABC-NBC-CBS-MSNBC-LATIMES-TIME-NEWSWEEK-HUFFPO. And we Democrats merely need to spread Light, Truth, Justice, and the BLM-Nation of Islam--Lois Lerner-Michael Brown-Anthony Weiner-Debbie Wasserman Shultz-250,000 per speech Way. Whites Suck, Send their jobs to China. STFU, Rust Belt. Get out the right message, that's all we need.



Matthew Sablan said...

There's something Virginia Woolfian about stream of consciousness posts.

Mick said...

The "real fake news" comes from the MSM. "Fake fake news" comes from the Alt media.
Isn't it curious that all Mainstream "news" outlets came up with the "Fake News" meme at the same time? Even the pedophile protecting Pope has used the meme, imagine that! It was generated to distract from the very real ongoing pedophile scandal involving many in high positions of power in our government.

Where is John Podesta? Why hasn't he filed a libel lawsuit against the hundreds of people that have youtube videos about #pizzagate? Not a word of denial?

Did you know the supposed "shooter" in the "fake news" story about the guy who "fired shots" inside Comet Ping Pong has a transgender activist brother, and that his father works for child protective svcs.? Of course you didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHTsMWUGVeE

You can't make this up. Brian Williams launches crusade against fake news.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-09/nbcs-fake-news-king-brian-williams-launches-crusade-against-fake-news

You mean like you and the media blaming a video for Benghazi?

You mean like "Hands up, don’t shoot"?

You mean like the media saying you were certain to win the presidency?

You mean like the media saying the only question to be answered on election day was the extent of your landslide?

You mean like the media covering up your medical diseases?

You mean like the media pushing polls showing you ahead in all the battleground states?

You mean like the media hiding the fact that you never campaigned in Wisconsin?

You mean that fake news?

The Criminals are desperate.

Mick said...


"But we have a regular commenter here at Althouse -- "Mick" -- who apparently believes the story that the Comet Ping Pong pizza shop in Washington DC did indeed serve as a front for a Clinton-sponsored child sexploitation ring.

I am in favor of starting in our own digital neighborhoods, to root out internet fakes".

So disprove the #pizzagate "hoax". Why hasn't Podesta or Alefantis filed a libel suit? Why no denial from Podesta?
Why does the White House spend $65K on "Hotdogs" ?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Why hasn't Podesta or Alefantis filed a libel suit?"

-- It isn't worth it; most of the commentators are anonymous and poor compared to those two. There's no reason for them to engage.

"Why no denial from Podesta?"

-- Lack of denial is not proof.

"Why does the White House spend $65K on "Hotdogs"?"

-- Because they waste money on pretty much everything.

Owen said...

Prof. Althouse: "Coprophilia" means the love of shit. The eating of shit is "coprophagia."

Yes. But it is a strange world where we are left to correct His Holiness in questions of usage like this.

But. To be hyper-pedantic I think the context of the Holy Father's statement suggests that "coprophagophilia" might have been the better term in both instances. Because the media do seem to love to eat the stuff.

Sebastian said...

@rejahm: "It's a weaponized version of the term to quash legitimate discussion of leftie spin and dark ops and to delegitimize factual reporting that's harmful to lefties." This.

Another fake news case: NBC's doctoring of the George Zimmerman 911 call to make him sound racist.

And then there are all the fake hate crimes, breathlessly and eagerly reported, as catalogued at fakehatecrimes.org

Mick said...

Matthew Sablan said...
"Why hasn't Podesta or Alefantis filed a libel suit?"

-- It isn't worth it; most of the commentators are anonymous and poor compared to those two. There's no reason for them to engage.

"Why no denial from Podesta?"

-- Lack of denial is not proof."

Many of the Commentators are NOT anonymous, and how do you know how much they are worth.
Anyone in Podesta's position would not be so quiet about such serious charges. If he were innocent he would be shouting his denial from the roof tops.
65K on "hotdogs" (little boys)? Since when does the White House serve "hot dogs"?

Here is creepy uncle Joe feeling up a little girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2oIM37dWU

tim in vermont said...

Chuck is just jealous of Mick's "Beautiful mind" that called 300+ EVs for Trump.

What I think is funny is that Trump has disintermediated the very media. It is fucking delicious! Chuck chokes on the idea of his precious media being elbowed out of their position between the president and the American People. Maybe we need to come up with a new word for them, what is Latin for the "peanut gallery"?

Matthew Sablan said...

"Anyone in Podesta's position would not be so quiet about such serious charges."

-- Actually, lots of people just ignore crazy conspiracy theorists. Like NASA pretty much ignores the moon hoaxers.

Chuck said...

Mick I want to keep this as simple and as direct as possible.

This thread is now filled with numerous references to MSM errors and fakes. I am happy, with all of them being outed for what they are. I like truth and accuracy. I am equally happy, to out the errors and fake stories coming out of Alex Jones, InfoWars, Rush Limbaugh, Breitbart and Donald Trump's Twitter account. I'm a partisan, when it comes to politics and policy. But I am not a partisan when it comes to parsing the media. I'm not going to let anybody get away with a claim that all of the fake news comes from one faction of the political divide.

So to be clear, you don't think that the #pizzagate story is a classic example of fake news? I'd like a direct answer, even if it isn't a one-word answer.

Mick said...

"So to be clear, you don't think that the #pizzagate story is a classic example of fake news? I'd like a direct answer, even if it isn't a one-word answer".


The "fake news" meme was created to deflect from #pizzagate. Breitbart telegraphed it just before he was murdered.


AndrewBreitbart ✔ @AndrewBreitbart
How prog-guru John Podesta isn't household name as world class underage sex slave op cover-upperer defending unspeakable dregs escapes me.
4:21 PM - 4 Feb 2011

What's on Weiner's laptop?

tim in vermont said...

n awful lot of left-leaning people -- including nearly all journalists writing for major newspapers or anchoring for major news channels -- seem to have this notion that their emotions are a reliable guide to what's real and what's not. - Big Mike

It goes back at least to the extremely wrongheaded, and equally influential "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." It was one long argument for sophistry over empiricism and logical analysis. A lot of people bought into it.

Drago said...

"lifelong republican" Chuck makes a standard lefty error: " I am equally happy, to out the errors and fake stories coming out of Alex Jones, InfoWars, Rush Limbaugh, Breitbart and Donald Trump's Twitter account."

That's right "lifelong republican" Chuck, that Rush is right up there with Alex Jones.

Uh huh.

Sure he is Mr "lifelong republican". Sure he is.

And with that you have fully exposed your true self again. You really can't help it I suppose. It's tough playing a role 24/7 that runs so antithetical to who you really are.

Mick said...

"Anyone in Podesta's position would not be so quiet about such serious charges."

"-- Actually, lots of people just ignore crazy conspiracy theorists. Like NASA pretty much ignores the moon hoaxers".


"Conspiracy theory" is a term that the CIA invented to marginalize anyone not believing the government line. "Moon Hoaxers" is the typical go to meme to make any "conspiracy theory" look crazy.
Why does Podesta wax so poetically about "pizza" and "hotdogs" out of context in so many of his emails? Why does he have child torture and bondage art in his home? Why do pictures of a 60+ year old single man's bedroom show stuffed animals by the bed?

There is much credible and otherwise unexplainable evidence that creepy child molester shit is going on with Podesta. His being in hiding only verifies that what is portrayed is true.

Matthew Sablan said...

Who knows why he waxes poetic about food? It doesn't matter why; that's not proof.

People like messed up art. It doesn't prove anything though.

I have a few stuffed animals lying around, including a stuffed cat that someone gave me for rescuing a real cat and getting it to a shelter to be microchipped and reunited with her owner.

He's not "in hiding," so much as someone who probably doesn't want to deal with stupid accusations.

You need PROOF, not insinuations.

Chuck said...

Mick - Breitbart "murdered." Well, maybe that was a direct answer. I'm satisfied, anyway. The CIA wouldn't require any tricks, to make you look crazy.

Drago - I am surprised, that you would want to link Rush with Republicans like me so strongly. Rush wouldn't care for it. In a close second, to Rush's complaints about Democrats, are Rush's complaints about Republicans. I think that there are now fewer complaints about Paul Ryan on Rachel Maddow's show, than on Sean Hannity's show.

But Republicans own majorities in both houses of Congress. And the Sean Hannity Party has zero representatives, in either house.

Mick said...

Chuck said...
"Mick - Breitbart "murdered." Well, maybe that was a direct answer. I'm satisfied, anyway. The CIA wouldn't require any tricks, to make you look crazy".


Yeah sure, and Breitbart's coroner mysteriously died of aresenic poisoning shortly thereafter.

tim in vermont said...

A White House official says President Obama has ordered a review of the email hacking that rattled the Clinton presidential campaign. Intelligence and national security officials are to report their findings to the president before he leaves office on Jan. 20. - AP

Yes, whoever is responsible for putting the truth out there in front of the American people and costing Hillary the presidency must be found and punished!

There is a lot of stuff in those emails that might warrant a look-see as well, just sayin'

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

Great topic/issue/meme, and great blogging to track down what people are actually saying.

Has the internet changed things for fake news? Probably allowed a meme to spread more quickly. Are there (therefore) more half-baked memes, which can be driven by partisans of various persuasions? Quite possibly. Is one side more likely to "win" than the other? Remains to be seen. Liberals/progressives are generally confident that they are the bright, internet-savvy people, but just look at what has happened recently.

Who killed JFK is one that long pre-dates the internet. If there was a government cover-up, it might have been to downplay the fact that Oswald was pro-Castro, if not actually employed/directed by Castro forces. Bad enough that a pro-Castro guy was more successful at killing a U.S. President than the same President was at killing Castro. The progressives really came into their own defending Alger Hiss and Julius Rosenberg. Any attempt to marshall evidence of guilt of these two (and of other Soviet agents known to these two), was met with a wall of fairly articulate noise: Bill of Rights, fascism, etc. It was as if there couldn't possibly be any Soviet spies operating in the U.S. On the other hand, Ethel Rosenberg was executed despite minimal evidence of her involvement in anything.

Mick said...


"He's not "in hiding," so much as someone who probably doesn't want to deal with stupid accusations.

You need PROOF, not insinuations".


He is absolutely in hiding. Grown men do not have a clutch of stuffed animals by their bed--- if you do then you are a weirdo too. Child torture art is not just "messed up", especially if it is displayed prominently in a powerful govt. official's home. Breitbart apparently was onto him when and was killed.
No denial means he is guilty.

traditionalguy said...

Mick is fearless. But Mick could be being sucked in like the intentional planting by Saddam of evidence that Saddam was pursuing a nuclear weapons program. But it was only fakes made up by Saddam to scare the Iranians.

So let's wait and see. The opposing confirmation bias that child sex slavery is too evil to be real is not going away easily.

But there is little doubt that a Clinton/CIA standard operating procedure is setting up temptations to politicians and wealthy creeps into doing blackmailable acts so they will be forever after controllable. And sex with child sex slaves is #1 on the all time list.

Drago said...

Chuck: "Drago - I am surprised, that you would want to link Rush with Republicans like me so strongly. Rush wouldn't care for it. In a close second, to Rush's complaints about Democrats, are Rush's complaints about Republicans. I think that there are now fewer complaints about Paul Ryan on Rachel Maddow's show, than on Sean Hannity's show."

This is a common lefty troll technique wherein the "lifelong republican" troll simply writes on and on as if different things were said, different thoughts were shared, different assertions made in order to keep the troll-dom moving forward.

This, no doubt, passes for "clever" on some other sites but on this site I would venture that the Althouse contributor/poster universe probably exceeds the intellectual limits of other sites.

Thus you will find you technique, like all the standard left tactics used over the last 40 years, will continue to yield ever diminishing returns.

It will be interesting to observe whether or not you are capable of modifying your transparent tactic and adapt your behavior.

We already see that most of our other lefty posters (Unknown, Freder, etc) are still quite mired in "old world" thinking and rhetoric. Something tells me you will be found wanting as well.

Mick said...

traditionalguy said...
"Mick is fearless. But Mick could be being sucked in like the intentional planting by Saddam of evidence that Saddam was pursuing a nuclear weapons program. But it was only fakes made up by Saddam to scare the Iranians".


So you think that maybe Podesta et al may have planted these "pizza" and "hotdog" emails, as well as created an instagram account full of sexual references and children, knowing they would be hacked and exposed, and also collected child torture art purposely, so that a "conspiracy theory' would arise from them, which could then be used to embarrass all those that believed it? I doubt it

Mick said...

"This is a common lefty troll technique wherein the "lifelong republican" troll simply writes on and on as if different things were said, different thoughts were shared, different assertions made in order to keep the troll-dom moving forward".

It was also the technique of actual "Republicans" to marginalize the "birthers" by claiming that Republicans should disagree with Obama's policies, not with his eligibility. Look where that got them, even when the "R Team" controlled both houses. Obama could have been brought down and thrown out simply by the exposition that he was not eligible.

"R" and "D" are 2 sides of the same coin-- the Globalist coin-- designed to divide and conquer.

But yeah, "Chuck" is a paid troll of .gov.

AprilApple said...

All the fake news stories about Trump supporters committing hate crimes - all past as truth on Huffpo.

they were all fake crimes.

Chuck said...

So Drago enough talk about you. Let's talk about me. Other than the wholly discrete issue of complaining about Trump and asserting that Trump is a nasty ignoramus (much like what Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham have said about Trump at one time or another), exactly what is your basis for repeated allegations that I am a left-winger and/or a Democrat?

I plead guilty as charged, to being a harsh personal critic of Trump. I dare you/defy you to find a single line of my writing that supports left/Democrat causes.

Just the other day here, some other commenter was calling me a "homophobe," presumably for my strenuous opposition to the majority in Obergefell.

Chuck said...

Mick are you a birther too? You are like the whole catalog of moonbattery.

Chuck said...

Mick said...
...
But yeah, "Chuck" is a paid troll of .gov.


Prove it. You lying, insane, paranoid idiot.

Drago said...

Chuck, I don't believe your feigned outrage serves you well in your current role here.

But perhaps thats all you have in your arsenal.

Drago said...

Perhaps, since Chuck brought him up, Chuck will regale us with all the "fake news" "facts" from Rush Limbaugh.

There must be some in Chuck's mind, else why drag him in?

Chuck said...

Man up, Drago.

Mike Sylwester said...

As soon as Donald Trump becomes the US President, he will be able to expose the FAKE NEWS that all our 17 intelligence agencies agree that the Kremlin was controlling Wikileaks.

This yarn is based on a news release that was signed by 1) Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and 2) the Department of Homeland Security.

This "intelligence finding" was not signed by CIA, NSA, DIA, etc.

Trump should demand -- before firing him -- that Clapper explain:

* How many of the 17 intelligence agencies were asked to provide input and concurrence?

* How many of the 17 intelligence agencies concurred?

* How many of the 17 intelligence agencies declined to concur?

Lydia said...

Here's a biggie -- BBC admits it underestimated the Church’s opposition to Hitler:

After Pope Francis’s visit to Auschwitz in July, BBC One’s 6pm news bulletin carried a report which stated: “Silence was the response of the Catholic Church when Nazi Germany demonised Jewish people and then attempted to eradicate Jews from Europe.”

In response, the cross-bench peer Lord Alton of Liverpool and Fr Leo Chamberlain, the former headmaster of Ampleforth, made an official complaint.

Nearly six months later, the BBC’s editorial complaints unit has now concluded that the item was unfair. According to the unit, the BBC reporter “did not give due weight to public statements by successive popes or the efforts made on the instructions of Pius XII to rescue Jews from Nazi persecution, and perpetuated a view which is at odds with the balance of evidence.”


They're going to have to work a little harder to undo the story that's been pushed for the last 50 years or so.

Mick said...

Chuck said...
"Mick are you a birther too? You are like the whole catalog of moonbattery".

Funny how you use all of the Alinskyan tactics, starting with "particularize the enemy" , and "ridicule is the most potent weapon" (name call).

Obama has never proven his place of birth-- a pic on a website is proof of nothing.
Even if he was born in Hawaii, his birth to a foreign father would make him ineligible for POTUS. He would not be a natural born Citizen.

Drago said...

"lifelong Republican" Chuck: "I am equally happy, to out the errors and fake stories coming out of Alex Jones, InfoWars, Rush Limbaugh, Breitbart and Donald Trump's Twitter account."

Cant wait for Chuck to regale us with the errors and fake stories from Rush which Chuck pointed out.

I'm sure he will post them any moment now.

Drago said...

Uh oh.

The metrics used for analysis of the impact of fake news was itself incorrect!

Dems and Althouse-based "lifelong Republicans" hardest hit.

http://marketingland.com/facebook-discloses-new-measurement-errors-continues-hone-math-200416

mikee said...

When all the news about your party is completely devastatingly disparagingly if true, and most of it is indeed true, the best one can do is muddy the water by declaring war against "fake news" and then hoping everyone gets confused about what the truth really is.

Hillary Clinton decrying false stories in the press is very much like a murderer who killed his own parents asking a judge for mercy because he is an orphan. Pure chutzpah. And the smug, self-righteous obliviousness of her decrying fake news while being the major purveyor of falsehoods is unbearable. Herself being the start of birtherism and the originator of the lie about videographic cause of the Benghazi attack is laughable, were it not so very sad an example of trying to create a crisis in order to take advantage of it.

Go away, you old hag. Your lies have no power any more.

Sebastian said...

"Years ago, Redford played the role of another newsman, Bob Woodward, in "All the President's Men," the story of 2 dogged journalists who were wildly successful. They brought down a President and sparked an American love affair with "investigative journalism." What's become of that today? Maybe this new movie will seriously address what has happened to the profession that Bob Woodward (and his partner Carl Bernstein) made us see as heroic and centered on truth-seeking." By the way, while Watergate wasn't exactly "fake," the presentation of the story was. Woodward and Bernstein were Felt conduits rather than "dogged journalists"; their "investigative journalism" was a calculated insider hit job.

Mick said...

Alefantis' Instagram (before it was taken private). I'm sure he is salt of the earth, and should be around children. I would not let this faggot anywhere near my kids, yet this Comet Ping Pong place was a "kids place". And why does a guy with this mindset have anything to do with the POTUS--- as he was there at the WH 5 times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtXcLNLwxyE


richardsson said...

Robert Redford is the personification of what went wrong with Hollywood. The more obsessed with politics he became, the worse his acting got. In Out of Africa I kept wanting Kubrick to jump into the movie give Redford a kick in the ass and say "Hey Bob, wake up! We're making a movie here." In Havana he seemed to spend half the movie wandering around in the road looking lost. But, I've also known since I was three years old that for some people, talking politics turns them into complete fools.

rhhardin said...

Dem Fake News is aimed at women; repub fake news is aimed at men, if you want the simplest explanation.

Drago said...

I feel positively overwhelmed with all the Rush generated "fake" news and errors that poor put-upon "lifelong republican" Chuck has had to recount to us.

Generally speaking most "lifelong republican" self-proclaimed lawyers tend not to make assertions they cannot back up.

Hmmmmmmm.

Fen said...

Chuck: This thread is now filled with numerous references to MSM errors and fakes. I am happy, with all of them being outed for what they are. I like truth and accuracy. I am equally happy, to out the errors and fake stories coming out of Alex Jones, InfoWars, Rush Limbaugh, Breitbart and Donald Trump's Twitter account. I'm a partisan, when it comes to politics and policy. But I am not a partisan when it comes to parsing the media.

Nah that's bullshit. I've been on this blog 8 years and have no memory of you ever attacking fake news from the Left.

Fen said...

I think the MSM is engaging in a spoiling attack to deflect criticism of their biased lying coverage of this election.

It's not working.

tim in vermont said...

W's plastic turkey. That fake news story would not die. I bet there are people who still believe it.

His dad and the supermarket scanner. I am sure Hillary has strenuously objected to that one.

This "fake news" meme is going to be great.

Scott said...

You would think that the mainstream media would realize that fake but accurate news is a problem that they have had for a long, long time. Why should we start trusting them now?

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/24/opinion/the-editorial-notebook-trenchcoats-then-and-now.html

I mean it's not like the NYT would have a Pulitzer for journalism from a reporter who was willing to push fake but accurate narratives. After all, it's not REALLY a famine if the NYT denies it after all...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#/media/File:Holodomor-Chicago.jpg

William Chadwick said...

I thought it funny when I heard that Hillary Clinton was actively joining in the Hive's war against "fake news" (i.e., news they haven't approved); but now I read that Brian Williams is actively taking part, too.

JPS said...

tim in vermont, 3:00: Good ones!

But good luck correcting the record. I know people as convinced of those as they are that Sarah Palin really said she could see Russia from her house.

JPS said...

(Not that the news reported that, but SNL got into the mix....)

Francisco D said...

Hillary opined that fake news was putting people's lives at risk.

The documentary film maker who was jailed for Benghazi could not be reached for comment.

The snipers who apparently did not shoot at her in Kosovo were also unavailable for comment.

tim in vermont said...

They used to call fake news "truthiness," and they were so proud. Now they act like it's a bad thing. Go figure.

Michael K said...

Even if he was born in Hawaii, his birth to a foreign father would make him ineligible for POTUS. He would not be a natural born
Citizen.


I disagree on "natural born" but I think someday we might learn why he is so mysterious. What were his grades ? Why was he "President" of the Harvard Law Review without ever writing anything for it ? How did he get into HLS ? Who paid the tuition ?


What was the story of the birth certificate?

It's easy to get a copy of the original. I've done it and lots of others do it every day. Was it the father's name ? Did Hawaii have a "legitimate" category then ?

Thomas Hazlewood said...

I distinctly recall John McCain; presidential run being victimized by the NYT's 2 week avalanche of "news' accusing McCain of having an affair..which, in the end, was proven completely false

Bad Lieutenant said...

Chuck said...

Drago - I am surprised, that you would want to link Rush with Republicans like me so strongly. Rush wouldn't care for it.

You're into proof today, Chuck. If I recall correctly you owe proof that you are a Republican, not to mention a lifelong Republican Michigan election lawyer. We need you to identify yourself.

Come out, Chuck. Come out of the fake closet. Isn't it interesting that *nobody* on this website will vouch for you?

Mick predicted 300+ EV for Trump. You predicted he would lose Michigan and drag down the Senate with him. Advantage, Mick.

Jason Mart said...

This thread is really taking me back down fake news memory lane. Two or three to add to the list.

The Fake News, generated by Representatives Thomas and Carson of the Black Congressional Caucus and widely reported by the media. The Reps claimed that they were called the "N" word and spat upon by protesters as they made the inciting "Big Gavel March" with Pelosi through the crowd or tea party members gathered on the capital grounds in protest of Obamacare. So the D's created the Fake News and the Media ran with it. It was later totally debunked by the inimitable Andrew Breitbart.

Now that I think about it, NEARLY EVERYTHING that was ever written about the Tea Party by the legacy media was Fake News.

Secondly, the whole Valerie Plame story was generated fake news by attention seeking nobodies who later also had a Movie made to recast the truth to cement the false narrative of their heroism. This whole story was shamefully covered and was at its core indicative of how a smattering of truth can be used as yeast to make a whole mountain of a loaf of bread out of what is really a mere crumb.