December 8, 2016

"All of us fundamentally believe that those are students. Those are also people that want to join the Armed Forces."

"They gave their name, their address, their phone number where they are. They’re trying to achieve the American dream. No fault of their own, their parents came here. They are something we should hold up and embrace. We are clear, as mayors, that these are DREAMers who are seeking the American dream, and we should embrace them rather than do a bait and switch."

Said Rahm Emanuel, explaining what he'd talked about in his private meeting with Donald Trump.

112 comments:

Michael K said...

I believe you must be a LEGAL resident to join the military.

I spend a couple of days a week interviewing and examining applicants. I don't believe I have ever seen one.

Los Angeles applicants are about 40% Hispanic but I have never seen a "Dream" person.

AprilApple said...

Who came up with the term "dreamers"? - The media and the left.
Bullshit alert. Proceed with caution. You are probably being had.

David Begley said...

Trump duped Rahm. Rahm is going to get dressed down about his sanctuary city and out of control murder rate.

dbp said...

Bait and Switch? AYFKM? There was no legal basis for the DREAM actions taken by the President. Illegal aliens are still illegal aliens and may be deported at will.

EDH said...

How is the existing Trump "touch-back" plan in opposition to this?

Indeed, isn't Trump's plan basically an extension of DACA for all illegal aliens without serious criminal histories, but with the requirement that each and every one to, at some point, return to their home country for some period of time and seek legal re-entry?

The second part of this policy is economic growth. If there's sufficient economic growth, than legal immigration (new legal entry and reentry) can continue apace.

But leave it to Rahmbo to inject his own brand of hypocrisy into the discussion... "Those are also people that want to join the Armed Forces."

Can DACA youth enlist (in the armed forces)?

Currently, no. In 2012, the Obama administration launched a program called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals that gives limited immigration benefits to individuals who entered the U.S. as children.

Although individuals in the DACA program are authorized to work, they cannot join the military. There may be exceptions under the MAVNI program in the future, but not currently.


Trump should call Rahm's bluff and make military service the sole alternative to home country touch-back for DACA youth.

robother said...

4000 shootings in 2016, but this is Rahm's highest priority in talking to the POTUS? These Democrat mayors can't even be bothered to pretend they care about Blacks losing their lives in their own cities. Presumably Trump will point that out when cutting off federal funds for "Sanctuary" cities.

mikee said...

The confusion of desires with legal processes might have pitfalls for those who choose to support the former without the latter. Much like robbing banks compared to having a bank account where money is concerned, illegal immigration does not validate one's desire to be an American citizen.

Lucien said...

As mayors, they should all be prepared to address the comparison between the numbers of young black men and women killed in their cites in the last 5 years and the total number of U.S. military KIA in the U.S. actions in Afghanistan and Iraq since 2001/2003 (or for that matter, the total number of lynching deaths in the 80 years before 1964).

AllenS said...

Rahm should enlist these so-called DREAMers into a paramilitary unit, and have them kill all of the gang bangers in the city of Chicago. Then they should be sent home.

MikeR said...

Not a problem. Build the Wall first, stop new immigration, deport the worst offenders. Then we'll talk about what to do about law-abiding long-term illegal residents, and how to make it fair for them and for other well-qualified potential immigrants from other countries.
This isn't hard.

Mike Sylwester said...

From the linked article:

The mayor said he also spoke to Trump about his commitment to keeping Chicago a “sanctuary city” for undocumented immigrants .

The correct expression is illegal aliens.

Darrell said...

Deport Rahm Emanuel.

Big Mike said...

Trump is talking to his political opponents and giving their views a respectful hearing? How's that for hope and change after eight years of Obama?!?!?

David said...

About 40 weeks a year, Parris Island Marine Recruit Base graduates a new set of Marines who have just finished basic training. The new Marines then go on to further advanced training in various specialties before active duty. The graduations are impressive and ceremonial, and are attended by families from all over the eastern half of the United States to see "their Marine" graduate.

Each week of a graduation, our local newspaper publishes a full double page listing of each recruit company, giving names of the recruits and their home towns. I always try to read this listing (which I believe is paid for by the Marine Corps.) It's interesting to see where these young men and women come from. A disproportionately large percentage come from towns and small cities in the south and midwest. New England always seems to have a disproportionately small representation.

Males and females with hispanic surnames are always well represented, out of proportion to their share of the population. There is no doubt that this group is an important cohort in the contemporary Marine Corps.

Darrell said...

List every crime committed by Dreamers and print it on the backdrop for Presidential Press conferences so that it is always on camera. Include the murder pictures where possible.

Mike Sylwester said...

I hope that Trump told Rahm what he intends to do about sanctuary cities:

1) The federal government will not conduct any conferences or conventions in sanctuary cities.

2) The federal government will not permit any federal employees to participate in any conferences or conventions that take place in sanctuary cities.

3) The federal government will not award any new federal contracts to any organizations headquartered in sanctuary cities.

4) The federal government will withdraw all immigration-enforcement officials out of sanctuary cities and will announce that it will not prosecute any illegal aliens living in sanctuary cities.

5) The federal government will greatly increase immigration-enforcement proceedings in suburbs and towns surrounding sanctuary cities.

6) The federal government will do everything legally possible to reduce federal funds for sanctuary cities.

Sebastian said...

"We" didn't "bait" them.

Scott McGlasson said...

4) The federal government will withdraw all immigration-enforcement officials out of sanctuary cities and will announce that it will not prosecute any illegal aliens living in sanctuary cities.

Glacially, but surely, that will ensure those cities have illegal immigrant-majority city councils for a generation. I doubt seriously we're ever going to see wholesale deportations, so the alternative is eventual normalization of those that are already here even if we build an impregnable anti-immigration system. Demographics will take over and get elected, regardless of the suburbian increase in enforcement over the years per #5.

Mike Sylwester said...

Any Dreamers bill should include the rule that the parents never will be able to use their children's improved immigration status to improve their own immigration status.

traditionalguy said...

Trust Trump's instincts on how to stabilize illegal workers being worked hard and abused with threats of deportation by Rahm's friends.

They must be vetted and some who are qualified re-enter and as legalized potential citizens.

The 3 million vote margin by HRC in California ( mostly by Mexican Citizens) is the 800 lbs Gorilla in the room. It is used now in every talking point against DJT's legitimacy.

Kristian Holvoet said...

I am quite happy to have any dreamer or illegal immigrant work towards a green card in the military. If they serve a term and are honorably discharged, I'd be first to welcome them and to forgive past immigration violations. I'd also be willing to give them a jump the citizenship line bonus for two or more terms of honorable service.

Jupiter said...

MikeR said...
"Not a problem. Build the Wall first, stop new immigration, deport the worst offenders. Then we'll talk about what to do about law-abiding long-term illegal residents, and how to make it fair for them and for other well-qualified potential immigrants from other countries.
This isn't hard."

You have that word "fair" in there. It may prove to be harder than you imagine.

Bay Area Guy said...

In 1956, My father--in-law left South America at age 20 to come to Florida. He joined the US Army, served honorably and was legally given US citizenship, and assimilated into US culture. Why can't Dreamers take that path??

MikeR said...

'You have that word "fair" in there. It may prove to be harder than you imagine.'
Granted. That is actually the hard part. The easy part is insisting on doing the other things first. _Then_ we can have a national conversation about immigration and I would encourage it.
I'll note that I was saying this throughout the presidential campaign. "You idiots are going to lose us conservatives the presidency and the Supreme Court, by insisting on immigration when it is an incredibly dividing issue among Americans. Stick to shrinking the federal government. Just wait till we Republicans control the government and then we'll talk." Shows what I know.

James Pawlak said...

The French have a Foreign Legion. After five-years of honorable (Very hard and deadly-dangerous) service, veterans can claim French citizenship.

YoungHegelian said...

This is the problem with having one's name in a government database. When the opposition gets in power, there's all the data they need to make your life miserable.

Rick said...

Who baited them and with what authority did they bind the rest of us?

Michael K said...

I am quite happy to have any dreamer or illegal immigrant work towards a green card in the military.

First, the military is suffering a reduction imposed by Obama's priorities. People with prior service are having trouble getting back into the service they have already served. That may change with Trump.

Second, a large share of the present illegal population has poor language skills and little education.

The "Dreamers" trotted out by amnesty enthusiasts are a small share of the total.

Today's military is looking for kids who can do technical things, The Marines and the Army are less choosy but they still want people who can read and operate equipment.

Scott McGlasson said...

You have that word "fair" in there. It may prove to be harder than you imagine.

Equality is easy. Equitability is hard.

mockturtle said...

No one 'baited' these people [except maybe the Roman Catholic Church, which still gives out maps of 'safe' havens for illegals in southern AZ and maybe the Democratic Party]. They broke the law. There are plenty of people who come here legally every year and then become citizens. When my British husband took his oath of US citizenship in Washington State, those with him were overwhelmingly of Mexican origin. If they are willing to take the legal route, why should we reward those who choose not to? Illegal immigration is killing the state economy in several SW states.

Darrell said...

Impose a 20% Federal Income Tax Surcharge for residents of sanctuary citizens.

Bruce Hayden said...

I believe you must be a LEGAL resident to join the military.

I believe that is true. And, you need to be a citizen to sworn in as an officer or warrant officer. But, at least since the hostilities started after 9/11/01, some of the residency requirements for citizenship are waived for those resident aliens who apply for such while in the military. And, there is apparently an implied push for resident aliens to gain citizenship while enlisted, because at least the Air Force, apparently, won't offer reenlistment unless or until they do become citizens.

Sally327 said...

This is probably a bridge too far and maybe not anything we can do much about but possibly some attention should be paid to why it is that so many Dreamers can't make those dreams happen in their home countries.

Hagar said...

The Obama administration has created total anarchy and chaos in the immigration system. It is going to take time and effort to get it back under control. Trump can't just waive his hands and issue an executive order and everything will fall into place. Even just getting the Border Patrol, ICE, etc., to believe anything they are told again, whether by the President or Congress, is going to take time.
There will be time to work out the details, but the administration must set a firm direction to go in and stick to it.

Bruce Hayden said...

There just aren't that many Dreamers in the military - because it is illegal (and with manpower the lowest since before Pearl Harbor, they would rather reenlist experienced soldiers than take in those it is illegal to enlist). But, when the left talks about "Dreamers", they are mostly talking about those who are going to college. This was supposedly slipped in as an afterthought, but was, I suspect, the real interest. Illegals who are attending our public colleges and universities, often at taxpayer expense. Many of whom have, yes, been here most of their lives.

But, the other part of the Dreamer thing is that they are a hook for a lot of other illegals. We saw this with the various immunities and exceptions that Obama enacted by fiat to the immigration laws. After all, we can't deport their families, if they would break them up. So, you have a kid who came over here young, goes through high school (at taxpayers' expense), goes to college, and now, not only is he or she supposed to be exempt from deportation, but also his family too.

Lyle said...

If Trump is anything like Andrew Jackson, mayors like Rahm "John C. Calhoun" Emanuel better watch out.

Fred Drinkwater said...

So I came back here later, and then the first sentence Ann quotes really struck me.
"All of us fundamentally believe that those are students."
What the hell?
"fundamentally"
"believe"
Does he really think this way? or is this just platitude-speak, so he doesn't have to talk about facts?
This reminds me of pre-president Obama, of whom "everyone" said "Oh, he's such a good speaker!" (Of President Obama too, of course...)
I never saw it.

ken in tx said...

Having a large number of foreigners in your military, or your society, is not a good idea. The Romans incorporated the Visigoths as auxiliaries in their army. Their leader, Alaric, became enraged that he was not given a higher rank in the Roman command. He therefore led his troops to sack Rome in 410 A.D.(CE). It is said that Goth slaves in the city, opened the gates for him.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

You can still be a student--go back to your home country, apply for a student visa, come here and study. No problem.
You can still be in the Air Force--go back to your home country, apply for permanent residency, get accepted and live here legally, enlist in the military. No problem.

This special pleading that the rules shouldn't apply 'cause they're just so mean...it doesn't do it for me. I guess it works on most people, but if so and if that's actually the principle we're going to adopt (as a matter of law) there are a hell of a lot of rules I'm going to decide don't apply to me.

AJ Lynch said...

Sorry Rahm but we can't determine what to do with illegals until they come forward and register their info so we know how many millions there are here. Anyone want to make a bet there are way more than 11 million illegals here?

My name goes here. said...

Here's an idea. An American Foreign Legion. If you join, serve six years, at the end of which you are fluent in English, renounce your citizenship in any other country, gain United States citizenship, and a place in the Army proper (if you want it).

During that six years, the American Foreign Legion would serve as a branch of the Armed services, probably overseas.

David said...

"The Marines and the Army are less choosy but they still want people who can read and operate equipment."

The Marines would disagree with that. They want people who can learn quickly, adapt and show initiative.

Lewis Wetzel said...

It's the democrats, Obama, and the media that call them "dreamers." They are illegal aliens. Legally they are citizens of whatever country they came from. If they were brought here by their parents, that doesn't make them any more legal than their parents.

Fred Drinkwater said...

So I came back here later, and then the first sentence Ann quotes really struck me.
"All of us fundamentally believe that those are students."
What the hell?
"fundamentally"
"believe"
Does he really think this way? or is this just platitude-speak, so he doesn't have to talk about facts?
This reminds me of pre-president Obama, of whom "everyone" said "Oh, he's such a good speaker!" (Of President Obama too, of course...)
I never saw it.

rhhardin said...

America is run for the benefit of Americans. If a foreigner and America can make a deal where both sides come out ahead, then it's a deal, like any voluntary transaction in the world.

America isn't a charity for foreigners.

aritai said...

I'm so sorry your parents abandoned you here, or worse yet subjected to the terror of separation by being thrown on a train heading north. But if you're old enough to consider the military as a career you're old enough to find your parents and share rooms with your brothers and sisters. Mexico is a rich country, more dollars per capita in resources than the U.S. and is less of a kleptocracy than in the past. Go home and makes sure it stays that way. Go to work in your energy industry and earn a great wage compared to your cost of living. We have lots of youngsters coming out of high school that would like to be so well off. And you're denying them employment in about the best first job there is, one that teaches responsibility and rewards merit and hard work. But if you see someone who worships dirt, chase them out of town with pitchforks if you want to keep your job and raise a family where you can hold your head high and look your son in the eye and tell him you're proud of your work, and he should strive to be to. And your sisters and daughters how to be wonderful mothers and helpmates. And control costs and expectations so they don't have to work so every generation after you can be better, smarter, and richer.

rhhardin said...

Lottery players are dreamers. They all ought to win.

Curious George said...

That's a shame but adios.

Unknown said...

If the democrats want to save the dreamers then get the hell behind building a wall and securing our boarders yesterday. Until then they are not to be trusted.

Big Mike said...

Speaking of Rahm's Chicago ...

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...


I am quite happy to have any dreamer or illegal immigrant work towards a green card in the military. If they serve a term and are honorably discharged, I'd be first to welcome them and to forgive past immigration violations. I'd also be willing to give them a jump the citizenship line bonus for two or more terms of honorable service.

Sure, if they adapt to the military and not the other way around.

Have women in the military been a net gain or loss? My military family's viewpoint (including my retired NCO sister), is that some women serve with distinction and are a credit to the uniform, while most others are just a giant pain in the ass and the forces are weakened due to the energy and attention spent on accommodating them. It's not exactly the same, but there is a probably a point where a large enough slice of the pie being immigrants would change the focus, culture and resources of the military.

Also, what ken in tx said.

MikeR said...

"They broke the law." I certainly wouldn't think that this is a plus as compared to someone who entered legally. But as Dennis Prager has often said: If I lived in some third-world South-of-the-US country and had a chance to come here, I would, legally or illegally. So would all of you. It's illegal but not immoral.
Which isn't a driver for good policy on our part. But I'm just reminding those who IMHO are overdoing it.

mockturtle said...

Beautifully stated, aritai!

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

And I would echo what others have suggested, that it's actually kind of a dick move to hoover up all the bright and motivated people in other countries.

Michael K said...

"The Marines would disagree with that. They want people who can learn quickly, adapt and show initiative."

I was referring the AFQT scores and some other qualifications that Marines and Army are less choosy about. The Marines are strict on physical standards like overweight.

They all want people who can learn quickly, etc.

Bay Area Guy said...

Also, since Rahm Emanuel is simply another left wing hack, Democrat machine politician, almost everything he says should be viewed with skepticism. His main focus his getting more Dem votes to augment his political power.

Michael K said...

while most others are just a giant pain in the ass and the forces are weakened due to the energy and attention spent on accommodating them.

We had our training about transsexuals last week. I'm waiting until the first "woman" to qualify for rangers is a trannie.

Michael K said...

I should add that the Tucson bike riding event, "Tour d' Tucson" last week was won, at least the "female" division, by a trannie.

Hoist on their own petard is the term, I believe.

coupe said...

I think we should stop issuing passports and open all the borders.

We should declare that we are no longer a country, but a destination.

I say this because I will be dead in a few years and could care less what happens when I'm gone.

Rae said...

For me, the question of illegal immigration is "Are we a nation of laws or not?" Democrats want volumes of laws that they can enforce arbitrarily - particularly those that they can enforce against their political opponents.

Amadeus 48 said...

Insofar as Rahm is concerned, this is all about electoral politics.

He is in deep trouble with black Chicago because he has confronted the teachers' union (a cornerstone of the black middle class here) and he sat on the Laquan McDonald video (and paid $5 million hush money to the family) to win re-election.

The city is roughly a third each black, hispanic and white, so he really needs support from the hispanic community to have a chance. He is grabbing onto the hispanic voters like a life-ring. Expect him to go to the mat on sanctuary city issues. Trump is the perfect foil for him. I expect Rahm will bravely stand up to the bully Trump.

The only question is what can Trump get out of it.

Pass the popcorn.

Comanche Voter said...

Rahm--seriously "bait and switch"? Who put the bait out?

Unknown said...

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-1481150209-htmlstory.html


"President-elect Donald Trump has made many promises on immigration, including a new one Wednesday to "work something out" for the so-called Dreamers -- young immigrants brought to the country illegally as children.

"We’re going to work something out that’s going to make people happy and proud,” Trump said in a Time magazine interview.

"They got brought here at a very young age, they’ve worked here, they’ve gone to school here. Some were good students. Some have wonderful jobs. And they’re in never-never land because they don’t know what’s going to happen.”

Trump had routinely pledged to get rid of President Obama's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, or DACA, the executive action that temporarily shields young people from deportation if they are students, in the military or working, and are otherwise law-abiding.

Trump still pledges to do that. But now he's also suggesting he would like to find some way to continue accommodating these young people in the United States."

clint said...

Like many foreign governments, DREAMers are about to discover the difference between making an agreement with a private citizen who happens to be President and making an agreement with the United States of America.

It's really not the same thing.

walter said...

Kristian Holvoet said...I'd also be willing to give them a jump the citizenship line bonus for two or more terms of honorable service.
--
So..those doing other things just don't rate. There are all sorts of "military service". A classmate of mine has recently retired after playing tuba.
Keep picking those winners and losers.

khesanh0802 said...

@Coupe 1028 That's a pretty irresponsible statement. I hope you were being facetious.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Just a decade ago, getting an h1b was tough. You had to prove that there was no American who could do a certain job.
There is no way that a foreigner with an undergrad degree should qualify for an H1b. But they do.

Richard Dolan said...

"All of us fundamentally believe ..."

I've been thinking about how so much of the angst over Trump is expressed in terms of a challenge to "beliefs." Not just (or even especially) about immigration issues, but climate/environmental stuff, social and economic issues at home, and on and on. It's become a cliche to suggest that the divisions resemble old-time religious conflicts.

But just for a moment take that cliche and look for historical analogs. I was imagining a modern-day version of the Tudor/Stuart era in England, after Henry rejected Catholic papism in favor of a Protestant replacement. First Henry overthrows the formerly reigning beliefs, then Mary reimposes them, then Elizabeth dumps them again, then the Catholic Stuart kings arrive and try to split the difference, until that falls apart and Cromwell does his thing, and after him some semblance of a final resolution is imposed. Obama's lefty policies and the almost religious view of the world they were based on (all that 'arc of history' and multi-culti stuff, that in many cases was a continuation of bien pensant Republicanism) are being rejected by Trump, who seems to embrace an old fashioned view of things -- America first, America for the Americans, the business of America is business, etc.

Who's Henry, who's Mary and who's Elizabeth in this little drama?

BrianE said...

I think we should give illegals who prove they are productive and a value to the US a new legal status-- possibly a yellow card, a legal status with no path to citizenship.
This would include their children.
The children could apply for a green card with a path to citizenship upon completing service in the military or possibly an AA degree from a community college.

At some point we could add a lottery (like the diversity lottery) where people with yellow cards, if they win, would have their status upgraded to a green card.

If the people want their status changed quicker, they could return to their home country and apply for immigration.

Most of these people are productive and a value.

My daughter and son-in-law taught in a school district with a high number of illegal children. It's hard not to see the dilemma the kids are in. For all intents this is the only country many of them know.

eric said...

This issue is going to come up with marijuana sales also. I believe both sessions and Kelly are drug warriors. I've heard they are fine with medical marijuana but not with anything else.

Imagine your business, even though illegal, is registered with the state. You are paying taxes. Have a bank account. A home. A car. A boat.

And it's all seized, because what you're doing is illegal.

But the Obama administration ignored it.

Same argument.

n.n said...

It's not "bait and switch", it's reconciliation. The progressive wars have saved and created millions more refugees, beyond those from mass emigration from second and third world nations in peace time. Beyond that, there is the progressive problem of the State/Church's advocacy for abortion of wholly innocent human lives, class diversity, and redistributive change that creates an insurmountable conflict of interest.

Lewis Wetzel said...

BrianE said:
"For all intents this is the only country many of them know."
So what? These are not stateless people. They are citizens of a country they do not live in. This is in no way the fault of the people of the United States. Their happiness and "feeling at home" is not the responsibility of the people of the United States.
If you are going to admit people to this country based on need, you can find a Hell of a lot more deserving people in Africa and Asia than exist in all of Central America.

eric said...

Blogger Michael K said...
I should add that the Tucson bike riding event, "Tour d' Tucson" last week was won, at least the "female" division, by a trannie.

Hoist on their own petard is the term, I believe.


I can find the 2015 results online but not the 2016 results.

coupe said...

khesanh0802 said...@Coupe 1028 That's a pretty irresponsible statement. I hope you were being facetious.

Ah, the voice of reason. I miss that. Good for you!

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

The children could apply for a green card with a path to citizenship upon completing service in the military or possibly an AA degree from a community college.

These kinds of suggestions assume that the institution in question would remain unchanged after an influx of a different type of client. Like my military comment above~should we take for granted that today's military would be the same after making it 10 or 15 or xx% immigrants? Colleges are an even softer target; they would be leaping to adapt to the needs of immigrant students, not the other way around. Would any kind of degree designed to accommodate immigrants mean the same thing as it did before? Do we know for sure the bars wouldn't be lowered and the goalposts moved?

The question always is, do the benefits of accommodating these immigrants outweigh the risks to our institutions that these policy changes pose.

The burden is on the pro-immigration side to prove that it's to our national benefit to have them here. That's up for debate.

AllenS said...

Sorry, but if we don't come down hard on people who are illegally here, it will just open the floodgates to more of them, a lot more of them.

Michael K said...

"I can find the 2015 results online but not the 2016 results."

Here you are.

Larry J said...

AJ Lynch said...
Sorry Rahm but we can't determine what to do with illegals until they come forward and register their info so we know how many millions there are here. Anyone want to make a bet there are way more than 11 million illegals here?


You know, that's a good question. None of us have any idea how many illegals are here. When it suits their purposes, the Left will often inflate their claims. For example, when a Republican is in the White House, we hear how many millions of homeless people there are in the US. When someone makes an attempt to actually count them, there is pushback. It seems the numbers are overstated. It's possible the number of illegals is also overstated, giving the Left the means to say that it's impossible to deport 11 million people. I have no doubt that the number of illegals is in the millions. How many illegals is anyone's guess. I know the Census Bureau tries very hard to count them, but when Obama pulled the 2010 census process into the White House, it made me wonder how much political manipulation went into the process.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I do sympathize with people who are in limbo, but there has to be some kind of cutoff, regardless.

Matthew Sablan said...

"I think we should give illegals who prove they are productive and a value to the US a new legal status-- possibly a yellow card, a legal status with no path to citizenship."

-- An interesting compromise, but how long would it last before the left demanded that "yellow carders" be given a path to citizenship? That they were being treated "literally like second class citizens." "Shouldn't they have the same rights to vote as other people legally here?" etc., etc.

That's why I'm hesitant to half-measures until the current crisis is resolved.

n.n said...

These domestic populations have already impacted our communities. We should consider their normalization, including legal but not citizen status. With their mother and father's legal status, their children will be eligible to be natural born citizens.

This could be part of emigration reform, which will limit immigration to the rate of assimilation and integration.

Lewis Wetzel said...

I wish people would stop talking about "comprehensive immigration reform.'
We had "comprehensive immigration reform" in 1986. That led to the current crisis.
Yes, in 1986, Reagan gave amnesty to the illegals currently in the US, and congress promised to enforce immigration law. They didn't.
What do today's proponents of comprehensive immigration reform want to do?
A path to citizenship for the illegals already here, and a promise to enforce immigration law later.
I am not buying it. The reason immigration reform is so difficult is not because people are racist, but because they have been betrayed by the elites on immigration before. There is zero trust, and there is zero trust for a very good reason.

coupe said...

One solution that no one talks about, is annexing Mexico as a state.

If we take Mexico as the 51st state we solve all the problems in one step.

I'm sure there are Mexicans who wouldn't like this idea, but if we took care of the Indians, we can take care of anything. Give them a reservation, or two.

Kirk Parker said...

"I do sympathize with people who are in limbo"

Same here, but note I do not consider the average American, who wants the law to be upheld, to be in any way a perpetrator of any injustice against the limbo-ites. Rather, that position goes to those who lured them here, and to those who enable and defend the lawbreaking.

Matthew Sablan said...

"One solution that no one talks about, is annexing Mexico as a state."

-- I hear California is planning a Calexits. How does Mexicalifornia sound?

Kirk Parker said...

coupe, truly you are too modest.

coupe said...

If we call the new state Palstinia, then all the Jews will leave Israel to come and build settlements. Win-Win!

Seeing Red said...

It's all about the Benjamins - federal monies - and representatives.

Chicago will go from the 2nd largest city in America to fourth largest before I die, and Illinois will head south.

Houston really isn't that far behind in population.

Curious George said...

"coupe said...
One solution that no one talks about, is annexing Mexico as a state.

If we take Mexico as the 51st state we solve all the problems in one step."

And create a problem with the flag. Where's that extra star go?

Bad Lieutenant said...

coupe said...
khesanh0802 said...@Coupe 1028 That's a pretty irresponsible statement. I hope you were being facetious.

Ah, the voice of reason. I miss that. Good for you!
12/8/16, 11:25 AM

Khesanh, don't mind coupé, he's a wet-brain. Besides, he promised to die soon. Coupé, better tell the VA doc to prescribe your meds DAW, the generics ain't making it.

Michael K said...

""One solution that no one talks about, is annexing Mexico as a state."

I remember when there was real interest in annexing Baja California to the state of California. Maybe we could do the reverse.

Let Mexico have California. They've got half of it now, anyway.

Mac McConnell said...

I really don't care what that ratfuck Rahm Emanuel has to say, he's dishonest like the rest of his family. I did enjoy seeing him getting off the Trump Tower elevator, check it out for yourselves, he looked like he'd be crying on the way down.

n.n said...

then all the Jews will leave Israel to come and build settlements

Mexico would first need to wage war against Israel.

Martin said...

Trump has said he will first focus on border security and dealing with illegals who have committed crimes while here. "Border security" includes lessening or removing incentives to illegally come here, hence expanded, required use of E-Verify, and better tracking and dealing with visa overstays. There is room for the Feds and sanctuary cities such as Chicago to work out understandings re the locals notifying the Feds when an illegal commits a violent crime, if people will be reasonable (always a big question in talking about politicians). But all in all it's hard to see Trump "going after the DREAMERS" in his first term, and by the time they would be an issue we might have done real immigration reform that would clarify everything. The main reason we haven't already done reform is the govt (both parties) was always dishonest about border security--show the public that the border is reasonably secure and reform will happen more easily than you think.

No sanctuary for criminals and "benign neglect" of the others, until the border is secure and we can enact a realistic policy; seems possible if people, will let it happen.

If people would act like adults for a change, this could all be worked out--if they (by which I mean the Democrats and sanctuary types) insist on continuing to use this as a political football, there will be problems. And if the GOP business interests keep insisting on open borders, that will also be a problem.

The diff is that it appears that for the first time in many years there will be adults in charge in Washington, who want to look out for the national interest rather than narrow political advantage (both sides were guilty of that). If people can adjust to that, we'll all be fine.

RAH said...

Require Dreamers to enlist for 6 years in the military to get citizenship. Allow all the other military illegals to get citizenship.

Alex said...

Tough titties Rahm. You literally have no leverage to demand anything from God Emperor Trump. I hope he sends the military into Chicago, declare martial law.

Alex said...

. I expect Rahm will bravely stand up to the bully Trump.

Trump gets the GOP governor of Illinois to send in the National Guard to Chicago. Declares martial law. Rounds up all the gang-bangers and illegals, send them to concentration camps. Chicago becomes a paradise.

Howard said...

Althouse: a safe space for deplorable snowflakes.

mockturtle said...

Let Mexico have California. They've got half of it now, anyway.

That's what I've been saying. For the trade, they can pay for the wall. There is already a town called Calexico. They could rename the country that. Or, of course, Mexicali.

Michael K said...

Allow all the other military illegals to get citizenship.

I don't know that there are any. We discussed in another thread.

The military has other priorities.

MayBee said...

No fault of their own, their parents came here.

This is always the stupidest thing.

There is no situation that kids are in that is a "fault of their own".
Father leaves and mom has 5 other kids? That person is going to have a tougher time through "no fault of their own"
Mom in jail? That family is separated and it is "no fault of" the kids' "own"
Parents get a job in Jakarta? The kids are going to have to leave the US through "no fault of their own".
Parents live in a crappy school district? The kids are going to a crappy school though "no fault of their own".

mockturtle said...

And...millions of unborn babies killed 'through no fault of their own'.

LarsPorsena said...


""All of us fundamentally believe that those are students. Those are also people that want to join the Armed Forces.""

The Armed Forces. Just another job Americans won't do.

I like to wager that 9 out 10 people who want to let illegals in the Armed Forces as a step to citizenship have never been in the Armed Forces. It' sort of like the Civil War version of the draft where the rich could pay substitutes. In this age they will let illegals pay the blood price and feel virtuous about it.

Michael K said...

There are plenty of citizens who want to enlist. How about we let them do so first ?

The military is not reform school. We need reform schools for disruptive students in schools where other kids are trying to learn.

BrianE said...

First off, the kids I'm talking about have been in American schools for the majority of their schooling. These kids have the same aptitudes as any other ethnic groups. My son-in-law teaches an AP History class, which is equivalent to a 100 level college course.

So as they graduate from high school they're just as capable of serving in the military as anyone else.

This shouldn't be about punishing the kids for their parents illegal actions. It should be about recognizing whether they have value as residents of the US. Are they productive. Do they contribute to the economy, or are they a drain?

The only argument I see that is persuasive against some sort of legal/non-citizen status is that without really getting tough on border enforcement, the flow will continue and we'll be addressing this again in 10 years.

I was working in the ag industry in the late 80's after the first amnesty, and INS was indeed raiding plants and deporting illegals. But when the priorities of the next administration changed, I assume this slowed down.

I have read that the one of the real triggers to the illegal problems was the 1994 immigration law that Clinton signed. According to what I read, illegals used to go back and forth, but after that law was enacted, the penalties made it such it was better to stay in the US-- because the penalties were stiffened.

We do need to harden the border (another way of saying we need to enforce existing law), but we also need to crack down on employers hiring illegals-- which means we need the mandate the use of e-verify, which is something Chamber of Commerce Republicans oppose.

"It is no surprise that business interests oppose a mandatory E-Verify system that is intended to deny jobs to illegal alien workers. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce supports mandatory E-Verify but only on the condition that federal law preempts states from taking any action to penalize employers who fail to comply."

http://immigrationreform.com/2015/03/12/business-interests-seek-to-undermine-e-verifys-effectiveness/

I can't vouch for this website's motives, but on the face of it, it sounds correct.

In some sectors of the economy we need migrant labor, though of the temporary legal kind. These are not jobs Americans will do since they are semi-skilled seasonal jobs (orchard work).

I can't see why we can't create an immigration status of legal/non-citizen, a "yellow card". Every Latin American/Mexican knows what that means. An infraction turns it to a red card and deportation.

Yes, this is about compassion, but it's also about what is in the best interests of the country. If Trump does succeed in repatriating American jobs off-shored, we're going to need workers at all skill levels.

Kirk Parker said...

BrianE,

Good grief, it's already not about punishing kids for their parents' actions.

Ever hear the term "moral hazard"? Right, I though not.

Hagar said...

"A republic, madam, if you can keep it."

Number one is to get the situation under control and devise a sensible system that can be enforced.

Howard said...

Lars gets it. The others are (mostly) chickenhawks or crowinghens who have so much hate in their hearts, they want to hurt kids. Who's children would Jesus deport?

Bad Lieutenant said...

Howard,

Whose country would Jesus invade?

Funny how you don't ask the illegals to be like Jesus.

rcocean said...

Rahm just wants more Democrat voters. I hope Trump asked him if Israel could take a couple 100 thousand of these "Dreamers".

Bruce Hayden said...

""All of us fundamentally believe that those are students. Those are also people that want to join the Armed Forces.""

One of my mother's pet peeves was using "that" when obviously talking about people. I was taught that "who" is appropriate in those situations. After all these years, this sort of thing still jumps out at me. Of course, he is the mayor of Chicago, so what do you expect? (But, then, my mother was from there, before immigrating to Colorado almost 70 years ago to get out of the cold).

BrianE said...

To make sure these kids would be eligible for some path to citizenship, it makes sense to verify that they had continually been in the US school system since, say, 6th grade.