October 27, 2016

"I saw the news story and was empowered by another girl being able to tell what happened to her, that I thought I could now finally tell."

From a Washington Post article "Dozens come forward in University of Wisconsin sex assault case, ‘stalking’ list seized."

36 comments:

Bad Lieutenant said...

Sorry, paywall.

Curious George said...

Triggered by Trump.

EDH said...

How can this be? He looks like the Lord.

Brando said...

When I saw that article and saw it was UW, I figured it was only a matter of time before it got linked here...

Ann Althouse said...

I'm not hitting the WaPo paywall anymore. It think maybe they suspended it for the election.

Ann Althouse said...

"How can this be? He looks like the Lord."

I don't know anything about this person and he's a student at my school, and I don't like to say anything about UW students.

But, speaking generically, a nice-looking person could be successful in getting someone to go with them into a place where they can be trapped. Think about Ted Bundy. An awful looking person could not use this method.

Ann Althouse said...

"When I saw that article and saw it was UW, I figured it was only a matter of time before it got linked here..."

I'm not leaning toward bad news about my school. This is a big place. There are over 40,000 students. I like to think of them as excellent people and I assume that's correct about the vast majority of them.

MadisonMan said...

Is today's theme Shame?

Woman is shamed that she slept with a psychopath, sees another woman has reported him, and then gussies up the courage to step up.

Right after a post about Arabs who are shamed into paying blackmail money.

Mike Sylwester said...

Perhaps Alec Cook was doing this as part of a fraternity initiation. Some fraternities require prospective new members to participate in gang rapes.

rhhardin said...

Dictionaries haven't caught up with empowered. Today it's a social justice term. Probably best to avoid it.

Martha said...

This is how campus sexual assault allegations should be handled—by the criminal justice system.
NOT a jerry-rigged campus system that denies the accused basic rights.
Good for UW.

Lyle Smith said...

Glad they caught him. There are some bad people out there.

Brando said...

"I'm not leaning toward bad news about my school."

Oh I didn't assume you were bad mouthing the school--only that it made national news and it was right in your back yard. You couldn't have a school that size without some bad apples.

Danno said...

Martha said...This is how campus sexual assault allegations should be handled—by the criminal justice system. NOT a jerry-rigged campus system that denies the accused basic rights.
Good for UW.

I agree. So many campuses have ineptly tried to replace the criminal justice system.

Rick said...

As Martha noted the fact that they went to the police is positive. This demonstrates the rape hysterics' claim the legal system doesn't take accusations seriously is a fantasy justification.

She said that when they searched his apartment, they found a notebook documenting what she called “grooming and stalking techniques.”

According to WKOW, the notebook included a series of women’s names. “‘Each entry showed how he met the female, and what he liked about them. Further entries went on to document what he wanted to do with the females,’ ” the station said, quoting a police detective’s affidavit supporting a search warrant in the case.

“ ‘Disturbingly enough there were statements of ‘kill’ and statements of ‘sexual desires.’ ”


This sounds like the police trying to create a panic they can be seen to resolve. Writing about your sexual desires may demonstrate a lack of decorum but it's neither stalking nor grooming both of which require interactions with the subjects. Nor does the term grooming describe interactions between similar age people.

Laslo Spatula said...

Dude With Seven Restraining Orders says:

They keep saying I'm a stalker, but I don't stalk, I just follow a lot, you know? I mean, if I'm on a public street, I should have every right to walk where I want to walk, unless this ain't America anymore...

I don't get it: one night you meet a girl at the bar and go to her place and party, and the next thing you know the Police say you can't come within thirty feet of her: what am I supposed to do, carry a fucking tape measure everywhere...?

And at least it should be consistent: there's some chicks I have to stay thirty feet away from, others it's fifty feet. Why don't you all just put it in metric while you're at it? I have to keep a notebook on me just to keep it all straight...

This one chick, she says I had sex with her when she was passed out drunk. Like how does she know THAT -- she was passed out. Besides, I used a condom, so it ain't like I got sperm in her or nothing...

And, yes, I did put a pubic hair on that one girl's Starbucks cup, but the person who says they saw me do it is lying...

I am Laslo.

gerry said...

Why are liberal enclaves such cesspools of corruption and decay?

Mary E. Glynn said...

He's from Edina, Minn.
The family will hire a good defense lawyer.
Why didn't the college-educated women, on an empowered campus like UW, speak out earlier? He's still an alleged rapist, folks. Regret does not equal non-consent.
--------------

I was at UW when a woman, her freshman or sophomore year, took herself to a wooded area for a few days while people looked for her as she went "missing".

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-07-02/news/0407030031_1_audrey-seiler-abduction-faked

She faked an abduction, and came out of it self-scratched up. She confessed, withdrew, and got mental health help. It was black men, if I recall correctly, that she said had taken her.

"Kids" don't become adults until after 26 years old, I guess. Defining adulthood down... "empowerment" too. It puts more money in somebody's pocket to treat the "boys" and "girls" this way...

Online education seems to be the future.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, I was stopped by a paywall. Am I missing something exciting?

Chuck said...

What I like about this story/case is that the police and prosecutors are handling it.

What I fear about this case is that university officials and federalized Title IX coordinators will use it to pursue extrajudicial campus star chambers and layers of university bureaucracy.

Rapists should be prosecuted and jailed. Suspension from school is not an adequate punishment for someone guilty of rape, and suspension from school is -- mostly -- inappropriate for someone who has not been proven guilty in court. And all persons, whether students or not, accused or not, need their civil rights protections.

MadisonMan said...

@BigMike, story from the local paper here.

MadisonMan said...

Chuck, he has been banned from Campus. From a campus-wide email yesterday, from a Deanlet:

I was shocked and saddened to learn that several UW-Madison students have reported being sexually assaulted by a fellow student.

Sexual violence is unacceptable in our campus and community. We’re committed to transparency and communication, especially in a case as serious as this one.

I want to start by sharing exactly what we know at this time:

—The student has been arrested on multiple charges. Upon notice of his arrest, we acted immediately to place the student under emergency suspension. He is prohibited from being on campus.

—The Division of Student Life and other campus units are assisting the Madison Police Department and UWPD in this investigation. University leaders are monitoring the case and receiving regular updates.

—We take every report of a sexual assault seriously and are committed to building a campus free from sexual assault, dating violence and stalking. We encourage survivors to come forward to police, who have specially trained officers who can help. But it’s up to each survivor to decide whether to report and to whom. If you’re not ready to report to police, students can also report a sexual assault to UW–Madison by contacting the Title IX Coordinator or the Dean of Students Office.

—We provide resources to survivors regardless of whether they choose to report the incident. The Division of Student Life and University Health Services (UHS) can help direct students to options and services, including mental health counseling, medical care, victim advocacy and off-campus legal assistance. For more information on confidential resources and reporting options, visit www.uhs.wisc.edu/assault.



—In addition to responding to reports, we continue to work with campus and community partners to prevent sexual assaults and hold those responsible accountable. Sexual assault, dating violence and stalking are public health concerns that affect both individual survivors and our campus as a whole.

These are serious allegations and I recognize the impact this news is having on our community. Please also know that I and many others here care deeply and continue to strive to create an environment where all of our students are safe.

Laslo Spatula said...

Dude With Seven Restraining Orders says:
So I see this one chick on the street who has a retaining order on me, so I cross the street to keep my distance. But no, that isn't enough for her: I see her pull out her phone, and I KNOW she is calling the cops. So I go into the corner Starbucks and wait: I've been through this drill before...

The police show up, and she points at me from across the street, so now everyone is looking at me like I'm some kind of creep when the Police come in and approach me...

Yes, I understand that I am supposed to keep a distance from her: that is why I crossed the street.

Yes, I know this is serious, and not to be taken lightly: that is why I crossed the street.

She is legally protected from contact from me: that is why I crossed the street.

You don't seem to be understanding the gravity of this situation: I do understand the gravity of the situation, that is why I crossed the street.

They allude to taking me to jail, but they don't do it: they never do, BECAUSE I FOLLOWED THE LAW -- I crossed the fucking street.

Some chicks, they get everything their way and it still ain't good enough.

Look: I didn't mean to fuck you in the ass, it just slipped. Once I realized what had happened I took my dick out as soon as I came…

Now I'm sitting -- legally -- in a Starbucks with a mocha that has gone cold, all because of her being all high-strung and all. She should be buying ME a new hot mocha, but I bet the thought would never ever cross her mind: she obviously only cares about herself….

And, yes, I did put a pubic hair on that one girl's Starbucks cup, but the person who says they saw me do it is lying...




I am Laslo.

Freeman Hunt said...

Yikes! Yes, this is how universities should handle reports of serious crimes: call the real police.

Bad Lieutenant said...

“ ‘Disturbingly enough there were statements of ‘kill’ and statements of ‘sexual desires.’ ”

This sounds like the police trying to create a panic they can be seen to resolve. Writing about your sexual desires may demonstrate a lack of decorum but it's neither stalking nor grooming both of which require interactions with the subjects. Nor does the term grooming describe interactions between similar age people.


Isn't "Marry, Fuck, Kill" a party game that girls play?

Mary E. Glynn said...

... and suspension from school is -- mostly -- inappropriate for someone who has not been proven guilty in court.
-----------------

He's been removed from the school.
He's been in jail, without bail, until today's court appearance.

Convicted on social media though.
(If I recall correctly, Ted Bundy was a killer. When even the law professor are making such comparisons...)

Laslo Spatula said...

Dude With Seven Restraining Orders says:

So the Police show up at my place, and they question me about committing assault…

Who did I assault? I ask, and they give me the name of a girl I met at the bar a few nights back. I tell them that I had SEX with her, I didn't ASSAULT her. I had even asked her if she liked it rough, and she said she did. To be technical, here was our conversation, as far as I recall:

"Does baby like it rough?"

"I think so…?"

"No, you gotta say it."

"Say what?"

"Say 'Baby wants it rough, Daddy.'"

"Huh…?"

"Come on and say it: 'Baby wants it rough, Daddy: Baby wants it REAL rough."

"Uh… Baby want Rough Daddy Baby-Baby."

Which I thought was close enough, considering how tipsy she was.

Anyway, now her doctor says the teeth-marks I left on her buttocks are going to be a permanent scar, which I think is pretty cool, but she is all upset about it.

The Police tell me they do not have enough to arrest me, but that I better be very careful in the future. Careful? What am I supposed to do, get them to sign a paper saying it is okay if I bite their ass? Another signature stating it's okay when I push a pillow over her face? I tell you, this system is all kinds of fucked up…

And, yes, I did put a pubic hair on that one girl's Starbucks cup, but the person who says they saw me do it is lying...




I am Laslo.

Big Mike said...

@Laslo, you don't have a videotape discretely set up in the corner of the ceiling and a good audio editing system?

Amateurs. F***ing amateurs.

Laslo Spatula said...

Dude With Seven Restraining Orders says:

I used to date a chick, she liked it if I choked her a little during sex. Then we had a misunderstanding, and -- of course -- then I got another damn Restraining Order…

See, it turns out she kinda liked being choked by my hands around her neck from above, but NOT by a necktie pulled around her throat from behind. Like I was somehow supposed to know THAT…

Chicks: unless you just want to have boring run-of-the-mill sex you GOTTA let us guys know your do's and don'ts. You don't want it in your ass? Tell me. You don't like it when I push on the back of your head when you're sucking my cock? Let me know. Beforehand. "No" means "No"? Say it like you mean it for once…

Trust me, if you say don't handcuff you I won't handcuff you. If you say don't run the tip of a knife along your breasts I won't run the tip of a knife along your breasts. If you say don't hold your head beneath the water as I bend you over the bathtub and do you from behind then I will not hold your head beneath the water as I bend you over the bathtub and do you from behind….

If none of these boundaries is applicable to you, just wink and say you are a 'Dirty Girl': I'll understand…

And, yes, I did put a pubic hair on that one girl's Starbucks cup, but the person who says they saw me do it is lying...




I am Laslo.

walter said...

“I remember feeling quietly afraid of you at that party,” said one quoted by NARAL Pro-Choice Wisconsin. “We never spoke or interacted, but seeing you walk back and forth, exerting your alpha male presence and mass from room to room made me stand a little closer to my boyfriend, willing you to go away.”

Not to downplay the actual sexual assaults etc. But this seems like piling on..or piling it on.

Martha said...

Alpha males are no longer permitted on campus.
Safe spaces.

walter said...

Piling on in terms of conflating "alpha male" with sex offender..as well as NARAL jumping in.

Freeman Hunt said...

When did the definition of "alpha male" change from "the dominant man in a group of men" to "aggressive creep?"

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

Maybe it is vocabulary from a different century. When I see in a lead sentence that someone "was empowered" or "reached out", inclination is strong to bail out right there.

wildswan said...

I'm surprised there were twenty girls on campus who would let the guy off and not go to the police. Or that there were twenty girls whose friends didn't report what he was like when the women involved couldn't or wouldn't do it. Or that people weren't warning each other. I wonder why that happened. It isn't surprising that someone would be awful in group of 43,000 but why did he get away with it more than once?

gadfly said...

Consensual Sex! The Donald hasn't used that one yet.