October 1, 2016

Am I the only one who likes Hillary a lot more after hearing this new leaked audio?

The leak seems to have come from Republicans, but most of what you hear is placing her in the center and resisting getting pulled too far left by Bernie Sanders. (The recording is from February 2016.) To my ear, she sounds much better — much more grounded and forthright — than she does when addressing the public.

Here's the audio — from a fundraiser in February 2016. Transcription:
It is important to recognize what’s going on in this election. Everybody who’s ever been in an election that I’m aware of is quite bewildered because there is a strain of, on the one hand, the kind of populist, nationalist, xenophobic, discriminatory kind of approach that we hear too much of from the Republican candidates. And on the other side, there’s just a deep desire to believe that we can have free college, free healthcare, that what we’ve done hasn’t gone far enough, and that we just need to, you know, go as far as, you know, Scandinavia, whatever that means, and half the people don’t know what that means, but it’s something that they deeply feel. So as a friend of mine said the other day, I am occupying from the center-left to the center-right. And I don’t have much company there. Because it is difficult when you’re running to be president, and you understand how hard the job is — I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do...

Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement. They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future. I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.” So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.
I don't have a problem with any of that. 

178 comments:

Virgil Hilts said...

Yes

Amexpat said...

I'll join you part of the way in disliking her less. What baffles me is why she doesn't run a more disciplined campaign and stick with sensible, middle of the road Hilary. It served her well in her NY senate campaign.

Mattman26 said...

She needs the Bernie supporters, or at least thinks she does. If this gets widespread distribution (fat chance, I'm guessing), her chances of turning out the youngsters and other revolutionaries will go from bad to worse.

And who is the "real" Hill? The one who pleads "guilty" to moderation? Or the one running on the very platform she disparages here (free college, free everything)?

Diogenes of Sinope said...

The combination of this statement and what Clinton is saying furthers my belief Clinton is completely disingenuous and untrustworthy. Clinton's hypocrisy and willingness to do anything and everything to gain power are again clearly demonstrated. This statement in no way supports any thought that secretly Clinton is "somewhat" reasonable.

Once written, twice... said...

This is who Clinton has been going back to the beginning. But you do not win in our system by running on this. And you do not govern if you don't win.

rehajm said...

If this gets widespread distribution (fat chance, I'm guessing), her chances of turning out the youngsters and other revolutionaries will go from bad to worse.

Yes. This doesn't play well with today's Democratic party. She might as well say she's a Republican.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Me too.

But, I also agreed w/ Romney's 47% . And, I agreed w/ BHO's bitter clinger stuff.

It's sorta interesting that these three candid comments can be fit together w/o contradicting each other.

Bill Peschel said...

If you're looking solely at what she is saying -- nothing more, nothing less -- then, yes, she comes across as sensible.

But you have to ask her: "Now that you've stated what you don't want to do (moving toward Scandinavia), what is it that you do want to do."

Fact of the matter is, she can't tell you the truth. In order to revitalize the economy, she has to remove the rent-seeking and high barriers to job creation that both parties have erected. She has to go against the people who've given her the big donations (Wall Street and overseas powers to name two).

She'd have to restrict low-wage immigration and dump the Visa H1-B program and tell the companies "if you want workers, you're going to have to pay them more and treat them better. You're not getting imported cheap labor." She's going to have to dump Dodd-Frank and reinstate Glass-Stegall (which her husband shitcanned), and prosecute the bankers who destroyed this economy.

Because right now, we know she's crooked. We know she sells access and power for money. We don't trust her and we don't trust the media to report accurately on what she's done. She has to unrig the system and let the marketplace do its job.

That's just the beginning.

But those reforms would go against everything her backers have bought. So instead we get "Trump Insulted this Woman (who was involved in murder and had sex on TV)" and "Trump's Mic Was Damaged (but it doesn't really matter, odd how these things always happen to Republicans), and "Hillary's Not Brain-Damaged and Heavily Medicated a Lot."

Pah.

Rob said...

Here's why I like Hillary a lot more today: she kindly lent this old lady her walker.

The Vault Dweller said...

I'm somewhat skeptical that this was hacked and subsequently leaked by Republicans. The only possible motivation republicans would have to leak this would be to try to demoralize the the far-left Sanders supporters and try to convince them that she isn't really a politician of the left who will make change like Sanders would have.

This seems unlikely to me because this doesn't do a very good job at doing that, and there are already existing statements that do a much more effective job.

I think it is much more probable than not, that this was released by her own campaign to try assuage middle of the road people, that look Hillary really isn't a far left wacko like Sanders. She won't turn America into to some Venezuelan-like people's republic.

I will agree this is a much more likable version of Hillary. But I suspect that all depends on whom she is talking to at the moment. I really have no idea which is the real version of Hillary. She has been telling whatever message a group wants to hear to that particular group for so many decades, I wonder if she even knows who is the real Hillary anymore.

Bob Boyd said...

What Hillary says always depends on who she is speaking to and what she thinks they want to hear. What do we know about the audience? Why give this more weight than any other Hillary speech?
You have to forget an awful lot to be swayed by this.

LordSomber said...

How is being "idealistic" going to lead to jobs that don't exist, for people with worthless degrees, to pay off student loans?

Mattman26 said...

Thank you, Rob, for brightening a cloudy Saturday morning.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

I think that lady w/ the walker is the 103 yo gal who was early voting for HRC.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

Isn't it AMAZING that in our world with cell phones and electronics everywhere not one word from her paid for speeches to the bankers, investment brokers...the rich and powerful has ever been heard by the public? But this audio gets out.

We must be suspicious of everything from Clinton. This is why she isn't fit to be president.

Michael K said...

"I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.”

Do you think she has any idea of the wishes of the average young black school child who wants a better school and better teachers ?

Young black women with college degrees are limited only by their own intelligence. They have what the left calls "White Privilege."

I thought that was the most revealing comment. The inner city might as well be on the moon. That is why I think Trump resonates with blacks.

Hagar said...

The origin of he term "bimbo eruption" was not only that there was one, but for one engineered by Hillary! whenever the hounds got too close to the Clintons' financial dealings, and the media would drop that and go haring (or whoring) after the new salacious scandal.

Hagar said...

And that was in their Arkansas days.

Laslo Spatula said...

The Inner City is to blacks as the Reservations are for Native Americans.

The Reservations have hit it big with Gambling.

Trump should build Inner City Casinos.


I am The Replacement Laslo.

Sebastian said...

Yes, Hill is not a crazy as Bernie. Of course, anyone familiar with what the Clintons have done over the years would not take anything the grifters say seriously. They would have a problem with her regardless of what she said.

Two problems: Hill has no clue about how to fix anything, never having done so in her life. And the Dem president will bring a Dem team -- 'nuff said.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

It's a one piece of a coordinated marketing campaign. This piece is to sway moderates. The best propaganda are planted ideas that cause the victims to "figure out" the message themselves. Secretly recorded, leaked out help the rubes to buy the message.

mockturtle said...

And the Dem president will bring a Dem team -- 'nuff said.

A Dem team and a Prog-approved SCOTUS. 'nuff said.

EDH said...

When will it be called the Long Recession rather than the Great Recession? Answer: at the end of Hillary's first term as president?

Everything -- everything -- she prescribes is in terms of corrective government policy aimed at supposed market failure.

But she confuses the cause and effect.

And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.

Translation: Hold-out the promise of a solution rooted in larger government, over which I and my cronies reign, but don't get your hopes up too high.

She sounds like Eukipha Heap, founder of Mor Science High as quoted by Principle Poop:

Porgy: So you see, Mudhead, it's like the Pooper said, with counter subversive educational priorities the way they are, well, it really helps our side to re-enlist.

Mudhead: Is that what you're gonna do?

Porgy: Aw, hell no! Right after I graduate I'm going to cut the soles off my shoes, sit in a tree, and learn to play the flute."


Jobs is on the way!

But don't worry, don't worry. Your food, housing, insecurity will be guaranteed by your Department of Redundancy Department and the Natural Guard. And remember — trusswrappers will be persecuted. So please, stay where you are. Don't panic. Don't take off your shoes.

Jobs is on the way!

Achilles said...

She has contempt for the people that vote for her as well as the people that don't. Hillary is the definition of the entitled aristocrat.

traditionalguy said...

Hillary relies on lies being the fabric of darkness we are kept in while she and Bill loot the money from the world as if they are a charity service.

Trump is a bright light shining and replacing the darkness the grifters need.

Hillary being being a Conservative or a liberal is a word game.

mockturtle said...

She has contempt for the people that vote for her as well as the people that don't. Hillary is the definition of the entitled aristocrat.

And she is not even, by any definition, an aristocrat.

Josephbleau said...

In this particular segment the professor displays a low functioning BS detector. Except that as a lawyer she may know it is BS but is advocating otherwise.

TWW said...

The question is, if elected, which Hillary will we get?

Mary Beth said...

Is this the fundraiser where she talked about Bernie supporters "living in their parents’ basement"?

Static Ping said...

My opinion of Hillary Clinton going into this moment was she was a dishonest, brazenly corrupt, incompetent, power hungry, unhealthy liar who will do and say anything including defending her sexual predator husband and selling out the country's secrets for her own gain. I have mountains of evidence to support this opinion. Coming from that position, there is literally nothing she could say of any sort that would change my opinion of her, except perhaps for the worse if she publicly admitted to colluding with Putin or space aliens or selling human beings. She is completely untrustworthy so to take anything she says on face value is foolish. At this point, the only thing that would make me think better of her are concrete actions of contrition: admitting to immoral/criminal activities that we know she has committed, accepting her punishment with grace and dignity, returning ill-gotten gain, dedicating the rest of her life to making the world a better place. The worst part about it is I would always be at least a little suspicious of her, even after all that.

So, no.

marcwinger.com said...

If I see that she prefers to cook mushrooms in butter I'm going to agree with that but I won't be saying so publicly because she & her agenda is an enemy of the anyone on the Right. Especially not agreeing with her on any point in election season because if she's elected, the country will be toast.

Static Ping said...

Actually, this reminds me of a song: "Liar" by the Rollins Band. Key lyrics:

If you'll give me one more chance
I swear that I will never lie to you again
Because now I see the destructive power of a lie
They're stronger than truth
I can't believe I ever hurt you
I swear
I will never to you lie again, please
Just give me one more chance
I will never lie to you again
I swear
That I will never tell a lie
I will never tell a lie
No, no
(beat)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Sucker
Sucker!
Oh, sucker
I am a liar

Yancey Ward said...

The problem is she didn't actually resist the pull left, in the end.

Static Ping said...

On the plus side, her security is improving. It took, what, 7 months this time before she got hacked? That must be a record.

Michael The Magnificent said...

What Bill Peschel said. Thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself.

She's bought and paid for, has her marching orders, and will do everything in her power to deliver. It doesn't matter if she really is center right or center left, she'll sell this country off brick by brick, making herself and her cronies rich at our expense. And she'll continue Obama's weaponization of the federal agencies against anyone standing in her way, to lay a clear pathway for her daughter to take over in 8 years.

John Lynch said...

Not sure why this is meant to be damaging to Hillary. Anything that makes her less of a caricature is good for her.

buster said...

What Achilles said @ 10:48.

lemondog said...

Here's why I like Hillary a lot more today: she kindly lent this old lady her walker.

Uhhhhhh.......which one is Hillary?

Static Ping said...

John Lynch: Her best case caricature at the moment is she is a dishonest phony. This audio makes her out to be... a dishonest phony. Not seeing a lot of movement.

el polacko said...

the closer we get to the election, our hostess "likes hillary a lot more".

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

mtrobertslaw said...

Putting aside her contradictory positions that shift with the wind, she is motivated by one single thing: the exercise of power. And whether she is aware of it or not, "justice" to her is no more than "the will of the stronger".

She is a very dangerous woman.

cubanbob said...

Has Althouse read the comments on this thread? From Bill Peschel who summed her plans so well, Hagar, Dweller, Michael K and and the rest there is no reason to like Hillary more than before or rather dislike her any less. So perhaps she isn't quite as far left as Sanders. So it's a relief that she isn't a Marxist but is only a corporatist like Peron?
She is a criminal. She is a grifter. She is a traitor. She is utterly unacceptable.

Unknown said...

You know what, you--and I, for that matter--might think this makes her look better, but it won't help her in the eyes of the Sanders supporters she says are living in their parents' basements.

damikesc said...

She sounded nicer.

...but I still do not trust her.

No matter how nice somebody sounds, if you cannot trust their word, I don't see how it helps.

dbp said...

"I am occupying from the center-left to the center-right."

Is there anything in her record where she has done something to the right of center? She may be center-left, but I can't see any examples where she strayed past center.

giantslor said...

"Is there anything in her record where she has done something to the right of center? She may be center-left, but I can't see any examples where she strayed past center."

Really? You've forgotten her vote for the Iraq war and pushing for the bombing of Libya? Not to mention her close ties with Wall Street?

Birkel said...

Althouse:

So you like Hillary better after learning she is lying to you?

Are you a masochist?

khesanh0802 said...

No one can deny that Clinton is smart and knowledgeable. It is equally hard to deny that she is a congenital liar and is a self-absorbed power seeker. She has no charisma; no common touch and she is ill and lacks stamina. Has she campaigned more than one day this week?

khesanh0802 said...

Ann, don't go wobbly on us now! There are still 5 weeks of the campaign. Trump continues to conduct his retail politics and he should be better prepared for the next debate. Hang in there, baby!

gadfly said...

Hillary said: "I don’t want to overpromise. I don’t want to tell people things that I know we cannot do..."

Such what is now the most ambitious and expensive proposal on her agenda: making public college tuition free for most Americans.

No, Ann, I don't feel better about her motives since the free tuition gimmick was put forth because of pressure from Bernie.

Jupiter said...

"... the kind of populist, nationalist, xenophobic, discriminatory kind of approach that we hear too much of from the Republican candidates."

So, it's the camps for me. What's not to like?

Rockport Conservative said...

That is exactly what she is telling them now. It does give me hope that she is smart enough to know better and her promises are just that, promises made to get elected.

Jupiter said...

What's funny is that those "young black millenials" with their useless affirmative action degrees are up to their eyeballs in student debt to the very same people who pay Hillary! half a million dollars to give speeches she doesn't want the rest of us to hear.

Jupiter said...

Clinton and her fellow Democrats purport to believe in a world in which everyone will be upper middle class. No one will be a barista. The lattes will serve themselves. Of course, this will require that everyone have a college degree. That position is very popular with the people who get paid to produce college degrees.

Fred Drinkwater said...

TWW: if elected we will get, in the best case, Senator Clinton: a do-nothing. In the modal case we will get Sec. State Clinton, a global fucker-upper and other-blamer. the worst case does not bear thinking about.

gadfly said...

Laslo Spatula or his Replacement said...
The Inner City is to blacks as the Reservations are for Native Americans.

The Reservations have hit it big with Gambling.

Trump should build Inner City Casinos.


Trump already tried that failed scheme.

In 1993, when Gary was to get Indiana’s first licenses for riverboat casinos, there was Trump, presenting a plan for a casino he claimed would revitalize the city’s waterfront. ... Little more than a decade after investing in Gary, Trump’s casino company declared bankruptcy and cashed out his stake in the boat — leaving behind lawsuits and hard feelings in a city where more than one-third of residents live in poverty.

Headed into November, Trump hopes to win over black voters. Asked about Trump’s pitch, former Indiana gaming commissioner David Ross, who was on the board that awarded Trump the casino license, said it would be a bad bet.

“What you have to know is that Trump is for Trump and he’s not for any black voters or anybody,” said Ross, a physician in Gary and a Democrat. “He’s not a guy who’s looking to help people. What he’s looking for is to make some money for Trump.”


What amazes me is that Mike Pence should have known what a crook Trump is from the Gary fiasco, but he agreed to be Donald's running mate anyway. My assessment of the judgement of my governor has gone downhill.

And it would be helpful to me if someone would explain why none of these examples of nastiness and dishonesty don't turn off his supporters. Do Americans really like to elect crooks?

bigkat said...

you really think she has put distance between herself and her younger Alinskyite devotee. As with BHO if given free reign our foundational papers would be secreted in Sandy burglars trousers never to be seen again.

damikesc said...

Really? You've forgotten her vote for the Iraq war and pushing for the bombing of Libya? Not to mention her close ties with Wall Street?

How is crony capitalism a conservative position?

PB said...

Yes. Hillary is a criminal and unfit for office.

Donald is a con-man and unfit for office.

I must select someone else if I value any sort of ethics.

cubanbob said...

giantslor said...
"Is there anything in her record where she has done something to the right of center? She may be center-left, but I can't see any examples where she strayed past center."

Really? You've forgotten her vote for the Iraq war and pushing for the bombing of Libya? Not to mention her close ties with Wall Street?

10/1/16, 1:13 PM"

That is a pretty good summation of a fascist. Hillary as Juan Peron (will Bill now become Evita?).

"What amazes me is that Mike Pence should have known what a crook Trump is from the Gary fiasco, but he agreed to be Donald's running mate anyway. My assessment of the judgement of my governor has gone downhill.

And it would be helpful to me if someone would explain why none of these examples of nastiness and dishonesty don't turn off his supporters. Do Americans really like to elect crooks?" First ask Kaine why he chose to Hillary's running mate. As for being a crook.... seriously Gadfly? There is no bigger crook than Hillary in politics today. So I gather you aren't voting for her.

n.n said...

Clinton is an acolyte of the Pro-Choice Church. She supports [class] diversity, anti-native policies, trickle-up poverty, progressive wars, selective exclusion, abortion rites, and monopoly powers.

dbp said...

"Really? You've forgotten her vote for the Iraq war and pushing for the bombing of Libya? Not to mention her close ties with Wall Street?"

29 out of 50 Democratic Senators voted in favor, so I do not consider that a right of center vote. A right of center vote would be one favored by Republicans that most Democrats are against.

As I recall, most Republicans were against the action in Libya. Complaints were that there did not seem to be much of a plan and there was a lack of Congressional authority for the action.

Try harder.

walter said...

PB said...

Yes. Hillary is a criminal and unfit for office.

Donald is a con-man and unfit for office.

I must select someone else if I value any sort of ethics.
--
i.e. denial

paminwi said...

Yes! What's the saying about tigers and their stripes. Or wolf in sheep's clothing? She's scum no matter what.

walter said...

What is her plan to foster a better economy? You know..to get those folks out of the basements.

Phunctor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
walter said...

Yeah..that Gary situation as presented (in article by Dem after Dem) reflects pretty poorly on Trump. But I suspect there's more to it in terms of the local economy and governance.
Within the article, however:
Current Mayor Karen Freeman-Wilson, a Democrat, said there were some benefits to bringing gambling to the city. Gary still gets about $6 million a year in gambling revenues, but not the $19 million Trump originally predicted.

Phunctor said...


Our host is doing one of the best jobs anywhere of mining the fractal borderlands. I respect the craft, while deploring, deploring I tell you, the goal of swaying the swayable towards Hillary.

We all know that if one says enough things, one will sometimes discover something said 8 months ago that is helpful today. Clever Hillary! Selective resurrection into today's news cycle helps The Cause. Clever lapdog media!

I wonder why these considerations play no part in this post: and conclude that there's a story she wants to tell, and that the tone of girlish chat is mere dissimulation.

There was an opportunity to link the concepts "Hillary" and "likable". To strengthen the association, unsupported by experience or logic, that Hillary is likable. The opportunity was seized.

I know spirochaetes more likable than Hillary.

Phunctor said...

"I must select someone else if I value any sort of ethics."

Because it's all about your amour-propre. We've come a long way from "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor", haven't we?

MayBee said...

This was such a dreadful year for the democrats to get sucked to the left.

Achilles said...

Blogger mockturtle said...

"And she is not even, by any definition, an aristocrat."

Hillary is at the top. The only thing she is missing in the standard definition is the hereditary background. In everything else; the corruption, the accumulation of wealth, the abuse of power and people who work for her, and most importantly the fact she does not have to live by the same laws as we do, makes her so.

The bureaucracy the progressives depend on to maintain power no matter who wins elections is the hallmark of an entrenched aristocracy. Hillary is beholden to the FBI and like a good patron will make sure they are fully funded and able to go after her political enemies. Scooter Libby went to jail. Bradley manning went to jail. Selective justice is what Hillary promises us.

Achilles said...

Blogger PB said...
"Yes. Hillary is a criminal and unfit for office.

Donald is a con-man and unfit for office.

I must select someone else if I value any sort of ethics."

Bullshit. What Hillary has done and what trump have done are not in any realm the same. If any of us did what trump did we would be hated by some at worst and have provided jobs and opportunities to many. If any of us did what Hillary did we would be in jail for life.

These are not the same. If you have any value on morals, ethics, or the rule of law you will vote for trump. Otherwise you are worthless to these concepts or if you vote for Hillary directly antogonistic.

cubanbob said...

PB said...
Yes. Hillary is a criminal and unfit for office.

Donald is a con-man and unfit for office.

I must select someone else if I value any sort of ethics."

You forgot treason. Plus one for the Trumpster. But please assuage your ethical feelings by voting for Jill Stein.

mockturtle said...

Achilles contended: Blogger mockturtle said...

"And she is not even, by any definition, an aristocrat."

Hillary is at the top. The only thing she is missing in the standard definition is the hereditary background. In everything else; the corruption, the accumulation of wealth, the abuse of power and people who work for her, and most importantly the fact she does not have to live by the same laws as we do, makes her so.

The bureaucracy the progressives depend on to maintain power no matter who wins elections is the hallmark of an entrenched aristocracy. Hillary is beholden to the FBI and like a good patron will make sure they are fully funded and able to go after her political enemies. Scooter Libby went to jail. Bradley manning went to jail. Selective justice is what Hillary promises us.


Yes, she is an elitist, for sure, in the political sense. But she is as common as dirt.

walter said...

So..if she has recordings making her more reasonable..release the other transcripts from the lucrative speechifyin'.

Harold said...

Amexpat said...
I'll join you part of the way in disliking her less. What baffles me is why she doesn't run a more disciplined campaign and stick with sensible, middle of the road Hilary. It served her well in her NY senate campaign.


The only thing, the ONLY thing that mattered in her NY senate campaign was being a Democrat celebrity. I was here. I saw it.

Michael K said...
"I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.”


And did you inquire as to what their degree was in? Bet it didn't have "engineering" as part of the degree name. Good probability it had the word "studies" in it, meaning it's absolutely valueless in determining ability to do anything other then occupy a seat for 4 years.

Tess said...

I would ask everyone, are you better off than 8 yrs ago? I detest the Bushes but we were better off, as were my friends who own sm businesses. My hsbnd makes about 40,000 a yr and my SS 10,000 guessing. We are not poor by any stretch but find it harder to donate, or purchase things as costs rise. I can do civil work. But i see others struggling so hard trying to meet ends. I have Liberal friends who think everything is hunky dory, the only thing i can figure is, they have excellent Retirement and or Jobs so it doesnt affect them personally. When you are like that it is easy to feel hurt for others but the thought goes away rapidly. I am no Trumper but we need change, land grabs, high Corporation taxes, so many things need changed. Immigration is an urgent issue, my Romanian friend just returned from a 2 mo home trip, she says Europe is done, everyone hates the US. Hillary lied to the FBI under oath, fact. She lied about her Emails fact. She lied about the Clinton Foundation fact.and now President Obama is involved. fact. But it all goes away as from Jarett down the Foundation is rampant among other things, Blackmail is done, i heard Bill Clinton say that yrs ago after he was done. Personally i do not think it will matter who wins, the Immigration is here and there is no return for us, do not kid yourselves. So, i wish you the best and hope I am wrong, but i connect dots thats all i know what to do on this crap. Do not comment please as it goes to G Mail and i do not use it, went to try to retrieve when i found out and cannot do . thank you

ellamentary said...

Thank you, Ann, for being willing to say something positive about Hillary Clinton. Like you, I am trying to keep an open mind on the woman. I never in my life imagined I would ever even consider voting for her for any public office, let alone president, but now, given the feckless Republican candidate, I have to give the option of voting for her serious consideration. After all, I have no options--- I cannot in good conscience ever vote for Donald Trump.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I too saw in the complete transcript a basically positive take on the young Bernie fans, not a clueless dismissal like Gloria Steinem's remark that college girls were for Bernie because the college guys were. Trump's minions, after initially overlooking the "opportunity," seized on the basement line and ran with it. They really thought it would resonate---- odd considering they apparently didn't think anyone would mind Trump saying the DNC hacker could be "some 400 lb. guy on his bed." (related stereotype of young folks) Seen in context, Hillary isn't dismissing these young people as choosing to live in the basement and refusing to grow up, as the folks pushing the supposed insult would have it, but instead empathizing with their frustration at having their dreams deferred, in their minds. She's saying that the economic conditions that meant that many of them wound up in the basement because the usual options for moving up from that situation was blocked and that she understood why they were attracted to Bernie's "we'll all get unicorns" messsage to that group.

Do I agree with her ideas about the economy and the job market? No. But does her language sound consistent with her Democratic platform and her Democratic ideas? Yes. At least I know what I'm getting with Hillary, and I'm convinced that Paul Ryan will be able to block most of her more far-left ideas from becoming law. That may be the best I can hope for this time around, and I'll take it. This transcript should remind people that she really isn't the Antichrist, but sadly, it apparently won't move the needle for most people, who have a knee-jerk negative response to everything she says and does. Just like people didn't look at the context of Romney's 47 percent statement and see it as fitting into his political views in a logical way and not some revelation of a secret contempt for the poor.

walter said...

"I have to give the option of voting for her serious consideration. After all, I have no options--- I cannot in good conscience ever vote for Donald Trump. "

So..your decision was already made.

Rhythm and Balls said...

What a bitch! This makes you like her more? Are you insane? I really mean that. She reveals that she's the total liar and charlatan that we always knew her to be - agreement with the most progressive DNC platform ever (due to petty threats of not having Michelle Obama attend it) notwithstanding - and that she never bothered to be honest with the public about their ACTUAL needs and completely LEGITIMATE complaints. She is the Wall Street Military Industrial Complex candidate, period - and simply can't give a damn about the public. Free health care and college tuition is a luxury? She doesn't know what it means to live in Scandinavia? Screw her! College tuition used to be a pittance of what it now is, even adjusting for inflation - and if she doesn't see that as a problem then she has no fucking business running and leading the republic. I thought she was all about the children - or so her defenders said. I guess that's out the window. Screw the college-bound, screw the future, yes they grew up in this recession but that's not her problem... WHERE THE FUCK DOES THIS ENTITLED LUNATIC GET OFF? She's gambling with our future the same way her husband did in the nineties - being all things to all people with a meandering, uninspired and uninspiring mess to result, and the makings of long-term disaster in the making. Bill Clinton's failure to lead and willingness to capitulate for all the wrong reasons in the 90s is precisely what led to the Great Recession. This asshole of a candidate will give us the exact same shit in another decade, +/- a disastrous war-of-choice or two, or three, just because she's belligerent and hyper-masculine enough to want to do that sort of thing also. THE YOUTH WERE RIGHT. THROW THIS GREEDY WITCH OVERBOARD NOW.

mockturtle said...

Gosh, R&B! Why don't you tell us how you really feel about Hillary! ;-D

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Speaking of living in Scandinavia. Did folks see that the conservatives in Denmark where handing out anti-immigrant spray? I'm guessing that a wall would work better.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, you asked whether you were "the only one who likes Hillary a lot more after hearing this new leaked audio?"

Before I answer that, would you do a little research and see how well you can square the Hillary of February 2016 with the Hillary at Monday's debate? Do you really think that her positions of September 2016 are in any way shape of form close to the center?

Rhythm and Balls said...

Gosh, R&B! Why don't you tell us how you really feel about Hillary! ;-D

The way I feel is that she's not even a skilled liar like her husband (from whom she takes all her cues), but a clumsy liar.

I feel it is a disaster to repeat the Bill Clinton debacle of being all things to all people, just for the sake of staying in office, all the while with a reckless attitude about personal conflicts and long-term strategy.

I feel that I already lived with the consequences of Bill Clinton's lack of leadership during 9/11 and a financial disaster almost as bad as the Great Depression, and I have no stomach at all to see these messes repeated twice, TWICE - in my lifetime.

I feel that Hillary feels her ambition is all that is necessary to be president, and that listening to the people means muting the most pressing, damaging and dangerously fraught social fears and problems.

I feel that the only reason we are seeing Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as the front-runners, is because a past generation of angry old men and angry old women are fighting a ridiculous zero-sum "gender warz" game to prove which gender is somehow the awesomest at pretending to feel aggrieved.

I feel that this is the last thing our nation, and the world, need at this moment. And I also feel that - lack of actual leadership and political skills notwithstanding - her happy trigger finger for another war or coup or garroting of some leader or another will take priority over the sense of any actual mission.

And then everyone else here already told us how they had every right to feel after the email debacle. All her years in office and experience and she didn't know how to handle classified information? On what planet is this acceptable?

I feel our country is strong enough to withstand the harms that either candidate would and probably will do to it. But wow. What a shame. How pitiful our we to not demand and ensure so much better. I am astounded that this is the best we can do.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Seen in context, Hillary isn't dismissing these young people as choosing to live in the basement and refusing to grow up, as the folks pushing the supposed insult would have it, but instead empathizing with their frustration at having their dreams deferred, in their minds.

Enough with fucking phony, empty empathy! Does she "FEEL OUR PAAAAWWWWEEEEN," too, like Mr. Bill did? Fuck this noise. Do something EFFECTIVE about it or drop the fuck out of the race. Or at least put forward a serious, un-flip-floppable offer. FFS, at least pretend to take it as a more serious threat than the prospect of Goldman Sachs dropping their speaking fee or retainer. Her priorities totally suck, end of story. She listens to people. She cares. Oh boy I'm sooooooo impressed. Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein endured arrest standing up for their ideals. Hillary OTOH dodges indictment by prioritizing her own political secrets over national security. By mishandling the same classified information that I guess her decades and decades and decades and half-centuries in public life and more preparation than any politician since Cicero never revealed to her how to properly handle.

Good grief.

Dave in Tucson said...

Am I the only one who likes Hillary -

Yes.

I mean, does this change the fact that she's incompetent, corrupt, beholden to every special interest group on the left, and by all indications, would govern way, way to the left of what her husband did?

Rhythm and Balls said...

I mean, does this change the fact that she's incompetent, corrupt, beholden to every special interest group on the left, and by all indications, would govern way, way to the left of what her husband did?

W. T. F.

How are the financial services industries an interest group "way to the left" of whatever happened in the 1990s?

How is a zeal for every war since Vietnam an interest "way to the left" of whatever happened in the 1990s? Especially regime-change wars of choice? Very left-wing things, those.

Hillary Clinton's politics are simple. They all boil down to her very easily, transparently understood psychology:

She has issues with men. She has daddy issues. She grew up with a belligerent, Republican father, and views politics all about her endless, and endlessly contentious encounters with other Republican male politicians and how she can both simultaneously please and challenge them. Nothing else.

Her mother, represents the poor abused, suffer gracefully through it type - and that morphs in her mind to the left wing and what she thinks of it. A cause which she thinks should also, similarly gracefully suffer, and have nothing effective done about it. This is why she can't even understand that economic populism finally became acute enough to bleed through to the right-wing, and give us an ultra-economic nationalist on the right, stronger than what she can squishily do on the pseudo-left: Trump.

She is a moron who cannot even see through her own damn psychology. I can even see more of her psychology than she can.

Enough with people using the Oval Office as a vehicle for working out their own personal therapy. This job is bigger than that. This country is bigger than that.

AprilApple said...

None of that erases her private server. Used to sell us down the river for her own personal gain.

TheThinMan said...

If I couldn't be the first, let me be the last to say: YES.

mockturtle said...

R&B theorized: I feel that the only reason we are seeing Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as the front-runners, is because a past generation of angry old men and angry old women are fighting a ridiculous zero-sum "gender warz" game to prove which gender is somehow the awesomest at pretending to feel aggrieved.

I'm an 'angry old woman' and I'm voting for Trump! :-)

Freeman Hunt said...

Where has this person been? Why isn't this person running for president?

Rhythm and Balls said...

I'm an 'angry old woman' and I'm voting for Trump! :-)

That's because you're not distracted by gender.

I'm voting for a woman - just not Hillary.

Unknown said...

I liked Hillary a lot more after I listened to every minute of that 11 hour long Benghazi hearing. She was magnificent. Say what you will about her, she knows her stuff, unlike the sorry excuse of the Republican candidate. She made fools of her interrogators at that hearing and she allowed Trump to make a fool of himself at the debate.

khesanh0802 said...

Hillary understands the symptom, she doesn't understand the disease. The symptoms are caused by the disease of overregulation, over taxation, business bashing, an atrocious healthcare regime and the Dems absolute ignorance of simple economics.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"Where has this person been?"

Walking on eggshells around folks who have long lists of demands for free stuff and vindictiveness re rich folks. Exhibit A = lazy millennials, Exhibit B = R&B

Rhythm and Balls said...

She made fools of her interrogators at that hearing and she allowed Trump to make a fool of himself at the debate.

Did she also make a fool out of the FBI? Out of our national security apparatus? Is it funny to joke about destroying evidence of her mishandling of classified information? Is it funny for a presidential contender to joke about how Qaddafi was executed? Is our country's security less important to you than how awed you are by her? You sound like a Trump-supporter with your fangirl attitude of your super heroine.

And thank you for showing your contempt for separation of powers. I hope you tell the families of those Americans killed in Libya that you think her answers were funny. Go have the courage of your convictions, meet those parents, and just laugh in their faces directly,

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"She made fools of her interrogators"

Nothing will ever match BHO v all the Rs in congress.

No teleprompter, no rules. BHO v all of them.

After that the Rs said they'd never do that again because BHO made them look bad. HA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1-jasxb7NY

Birkel said...

The Unknown at 8:12 is a liar. And a bad liar, at that. She should take lessons from Hillary. HILLARY only needs 100% of the press behind her to make a lie stick.

Unknown said...

PB&J, I saw lthat live and yes it was amazing, truly amazing.

Unknown said...

Birkel claims I'm a liar because I express an opinion? What a weirdo.

Rhythm and Balls said...

PB&J, I saw lthat live and yes it was amazing, truly amazing.

Better than heroin, catnip, and oxytocin combined.

Can I ask you a question? Is there anything in life that you find as amazing as a woman getting away with smugly weasling her way around any responsibility for lapses in our national security, as long as the questioners are men? I mean, I hear there was a super estrogen-high for fans of Thelma and Louise. But the car Hillary wants to drive has the entire country in it. Whew-ee! Yee-haw! Won't that be a fun one to drive bravely off the cliff.

You are like the suicide-vest wearing equivalent of Gloria Steinem. Burning bras is so 1960s. Let's burn down our country's entire progressive traditions, instead. Fun, fun, fun.

mockturtle said...

PB&J suggested: No teleprompter, no rules. BHO v all of them.

Obama is as useless as teats on a boar without a teleprompter .

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

MockT,

Presumably you can grasp that I linked to something where he schools all the Rs in Congress for well over an hour w/ no teleprompter, not even any notes, just a dude and a mic v all the Rs.

Unknown said...

Mr. Rhythm,
You're a bit overwrought in seems. I'll leave the narcotics and kitty ganga to you, I don't indulge. Clinton will make the best president of any candidates running, which includes Stein and the guy who couldn't name a living President, having yet another Allepo moment.

EMD said...

Yes.

EMD said...

" the guy who couldn't name a living President"

Says the person who can't phrase the question he was asked properly.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Mr. Rhythm,
You're a bit overwrought in seems. I'll leave the narcotics and kitty ganga to you, I don't indulge. Clinton will make the best president of any candidates running, which includes Stein and the guy who couldn't name a living President, having yet another Allepo moment.


Oh, dear me. I've apparently intruded on the lighthearted levity we're now supposed to make of running the most powerful office in the land, and world. The new ethic is more along the lines of a Tupperware party, it seems. All this seriousness in the way of responsibility over other people's lives? How could I have taken it so far. I humbly bow to the fun you want to make of the enterprise, which somehow has way more gravitas than sending off insulting late-night tweets to whomever's offended you.

And that Gary Johnson, how could he have flubbed something so important as the geographical minutiae of the next country we're destined by Hillary's Methodist God to invade? Not only that, I'm sure he also didn't know Lebanon's national anthem, its national bird, or even its national food (kanafe, at last guess. Or maybe baklava). But apparently even these bits of knowledge must be overwrought for the bien-pensants, who just need to know coordinates for the next city they'd like to bomb - except when mistaking it for the capital of the Syrian Republic or its militant separatists. One of those two, anyway. But who can blame them? Someone has to inform us about the cities the military contractors controlling Hillary's policy want us to bomb. How else can the people pretend to agree with it?

Unknown said...

Name a foreign leader you respect." "I'm having an Allepo moment"..

LOL. I like the guy, but he's smoked too much of Mr.Rhythm's kitty ganga it seems.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I wonder if Trump's description of Hillary's trigger finger as "happy" was the right phrasing. I think it was, though. Lord knows she's never touched her own clitoris. And don't even think about an actual MAN touching it!

Huma? What can you tell us about Hillary's happy trigger finger? She definitely feels more power peering through the scopes of a gun (assuming she could actually aim it properly) than anything closer to home.

Unknown said...

That should be Aleppo, not Allepo.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Who gives a shit about foreign leaders? You actually think the next president should be more preoccupied with remaking over the world around us than anything closer to home? Our infrastructure is shot to shit. Our welfare programs don't work. We can't even get any economic growth for 99+% of the country. But don't worry. Hillary will hobnob with the foreign dignitaries, make them promises, oust the ones she doesn't like, bomb the places that give her pleasure to do so, and tell the working class to shove it. That's how it works. Forget what happens at home, but name 190 piddling, unimportant leaders around the world and give them a tea party while telling all those Americans lacking health care, a decent job or affordable college that there is cake for them to eat. Let them eat cake! I've got a party full of foreign leaders, celebrities, and billionaires to entertain!

Oh well, Hillary. I guess that tells us whose head they will call for to be "off with!"

But you laughed at Qadaffi's sodomized ass-knifing. So I'm sure you wouldn't take your own Marie Antoinetting all that personally.

cubanbob said...

R & B @ 7.12. I won't pretend to psychoanalyze Hillary's motives (daddy and men issues) for wanting to be president. Neither should you. Suffice to say besides ego (true of any candidate no matter the party) Hillary is running in part to stay out jail (a real albeit small possibility if Trump wins) and given her history the money for her family that would come from her presidency is no small consideration.
Incidentally her son-in-law has issues with his hedge fund and emails from Hillary to him when she was SoS regarding Greece now appear to be lost as well. As Trumpy said, when you follow this woman you follow the money.

Jon Ericson said...

Well, this socialist catfight is certainly instructive.

Rhythm and Balls said...

I won't pretend to psychoanalyze Hillary's motives (daddy and men issues) for wanting to be president. Neither should you.

Oh come on. If she went into a psychiatrist's office they would offer her a refund. That's how transparent she is.

You are over-complicating her, projecting complex politics (running to avoid indictment) into simpler things. She's been running her whole life. She believes she is the Uber-woman, the ur-woman. The be-all-end-all of womanhood, and the woman upon whom all women should look up to for inspiration and emulation. She will change the word "woman" to "Hillary." In the future there won't be restrooms for ladies or gentlemen. There will be men's restrooms and Hillary restrooms. This is her vision.

She runs because she craves what most politicians do: Power and admiration. But since she lacks actual political skills she has to rally around something else: Her belief that she represents the perfection of humanity. All men coming before her were just prototypes. They were the wrong gender. There's no way they could have known what her mom put up with from her dad. Or what she put up with from Bill.

And she is here to let everyone know that.

It's a vengeance campaign, plain and simple. A political war of attrition - left over from the 1960s. She's here to let every woman whose male boss was mean to them five decades ago in a different era that they have now been vindicated and avenged. She is here to let the producers of Mad Men that they need to go off the air.

You know. The real important business of the country. Where we go doesn't matter. As long as we correct her hurt memories and insulted femininity from the middle of the last century.

Go Hillary!

David said...

"To my ear, she sounds much better — much more grounded and forthright — than she does when addressing the public."

This makes you feel better?

cubanbob said...

Blogger Unknown said...
I liked Hillary a lot more after I listened to every minute of that 11 hour long Benghazi hearing. She was magnificent. Say what you will about her, she knows her stuff, unlike the sorry excuse of the Republican candidate. She made fools of her interrogators at that hearing and she allowed Trump to make a fool of himself at the debate.

10/1/16, 8:12 PM"

When R & B who is no right winger rips you an asshole the size of the Grand Canyon an entirely right in the observation then you are way out there in The Twilight Zone.

Josephbleau said...

My problem is that I prefer to wait a few years into the term before finding out that the President is a lying incompetent. With Hillary! I know that before the inauguration.

Unknown said...

R&B sounds as much a right winger as you Cubanbob, absolutely no difference.

Unknown said...

I think Althouse has finally come to the realization that Trump is a disaster and s looking for an out. Can't say I blame her, just wondering what took her so long.

Unknown said...

Follow the Russian money to Trump, Cubanbob, then follow the Trump money to Cuba.

Jon Ericson said...

Lick your wounds,
sniff some catnip,
Round Two!
Kitty boxing is so cute.

Rhythm and Balls said...

R&B sounds as much a right winger as you Cubanbob, absolutely no difference.

I just have standards. But you think your superheroine is too good for standards.

Seriously, you and the Trump supporters are not much different, at all. Hillary could shoot someone in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue and you'd decry how unfair the trial was. (Or else you'd think it was only right if she could be acquitted on a technicality).

Either way, the only reason Hillary may have a shot is that she got lucky in getting an even more narcissistic, unhinged joke to run for her Republican wing than she is. But the irony is that he may actually get the working class, economic populist vote that Hillary thinks is so unimportant. The only economics Hillary fangirls care about are the price of alimony payments, spousal support or soy phytoestrogen supplements.

Rhythm and Balls said...

How is Hillary not a right-winger? Can you tell me one rightwing policy she stood against? What were all the progressive policy standards she upheld? I mean, I hear Goldman Sachs and the Pentagon are really left-wing organizations - but seriously.

Just admit it. She likes to talk the talk. Does she really walk the walk? Even on abortion, I heard her entertaining and legitimizing restrictions during the Primary that Bernie Sanders would have never agreed to. Does she have any standards at all? She said she wanted to put coal miners out of work? Where's her energy policy to replace it? Why is she so weasely on the environment? Labor standards? I don't even know where she stands on family and medical leave. With Hillary, everything's for sale. As long as it's good for Hillary she'll try to convince you it's good for you. Same as her husband was. They confuse their own fortunes and political success with moral accomplishment. They don't care about you, or anyone.

As Obama said in 2008, she'll say anything. And do nothing.

As senator, she sponsored three bills. Grand total. Renaming two post offices and renaming a road in Buffalo after MSM toady, Tim Russert. Real leadership, that. What a progressive hero and champion. She's a regular Eleanor Roosevelt.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Hillary's a right-wing feminist. And you love her for it.

Tell me how leftwing progressive it was to say in 2008 that it was important for her campaign to continue into the summer because that's the time when Robert Kennedy was assassinated in 1968 and, you know, well you never can know what happen.

Yep. THat's a really progressive campaign. Staying in the race because you want to remind people that your opponent can be assassinated. Awesome leadership, there.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Well, one thing about Hillary - she says Scandinavian social policies are unrealistic. So there goes family and medical leave.

Pregnancy should be a luxury, after all. She never wanted to have Chelsea - just did it for political reasons.

And she's not actually a straight woman. But she did uphold DOMA standards. Until about 2013 or so.

Very progressive, Hillary. Way to get ahead of the gay marriage issue.

She ran for senator and smiled with a straight face when they booed her for opposing gay marriage.

She will lie about anything, though. To a female supremacist, that's apparently a plus.

Because you're not relying on her to tell you the truth about anything. You just care about the fact that she's a woman. And that she has no standards.

Those are the things that you identify with and find most important in life, and in politics.

They are the recipes for a failed presidency, though. In which case, if that happens, I will have no problem reminding you.

Jon Ericson said...

I find socialists an unending font of amusement.

Jon Ericson said...

Not this blog, though.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

"...and, you know, well you never can know what happen."

This time the Berner could have use this excuse to hang around because you never know when HRC may keel over, for good.

Michael The Magnificent said...

As I said, Hillary will continue the weaponization of the federal agencies against anyone standing in her way: Trump Tax Records Obtained by The Times Reveal He Could Have Avoided Paying Taxes for Nearly Two Decades

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

Mike the Mag,

If the implication is that the leak was from HRC, you may want to look at another scorned gal. It seems like HRC's name isn't at the top of those returns.

Just sayin'

Michael The Magnificent said...

I mean, lets leak the tax records of Republicans, just because. No different than leaking the names of the donors in support of California's Proposition 8, right?

I have a better idea. Lets eliminate the fucking IRS! Time to put those assholes in the unemployment line.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

If it was somehow related to Marla, I'd think that that could complicate things for Tiffany. Maybe genetic-scientist-DJT would decide that anyone w/ Marla genes must be bad.

At least the NYT had a pretty nice piece about TT, maybe that's, somehow, supposed to smooth things over.

I dunno

Jon Ericson said...

Peanut, you're in a class of your own.

Michael The Magnificent said...

If the implication is that the leak was from HRC...

My implication is that the leak was from a politicized IRS.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

One interesting side note will be that Rs will stop being sloppy when they conflate "half of Americans don't pay taxes" with "half or Americans don't pay federal income taxes."

I'm pretty sure Rs will start noticing and hyping that folks (or at least one billionaire) can be paying taxes, but not federal income taxes.

Cool stuff.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

MikeTM,

Thinking about leaks, if the Russian government is trying to hack into our election system and they're trying to use hacks to take down DJT's opponent, would that indicate that the Russians are trying to help make DJT the POTUS?

Jon Ericson said...

Always reliable.

Achilles said...

R&B is decrying Hillary as a right winger and this is illustrative. The truth is Hillary is not right or left. She is pure distilled corruption.

The bureaucracy has been turned into a tool of the wealthy to maintain power in DC. The fed has printed or borrowed 15% of our GDP during Obamas entire presidency. QE3 was supposed to be temporary. The stimulus was supposed to be temporary. They have been trying to prop up a dead economy to maintain the charade. Despite pumping 15% of our GDP into the economy out of thin air we have been below 2% growth every year.

It is really funny hearing Hillary complain about "trickle down economics" when the stimulus and the QE has been funneled overwhelmingly into the hands of wealthy people. Obama has made the .001% very very wealthy. Clinton is clearly going to keep this going. She is more in the pocket of the big 5 banks than Obama and that is nearly impossible.

Achilles said...

The IRS has again chosen sides. The bureaucracy is an enemy of freedom. No matter what the outcome of the election is they serve interests that are completely at odds with the people of this country and have nothing to do with the original intent of the agency.

A trump victory and elimination of the IRS as a whole is the best outcome for the people in the IRS.

Michael The Magnificent said...

If the implication is that the leak was from HRC...

Who was it who accused Trump of not having paid taxes? It was HRC, during the debate. How would she know? How could she know? Why should she know? Who illegally leaked it to her?

Billionaires might not necessarily get a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly salary, since they have such significant savings to draw from, for years. You buy some property, you improve it, you depreciate it over X years, and you don't have any capital gains to pay taxes on until you sell it a decade later later.

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

MikeTM,

In the debate HRC referred to already reported tax info that DJT had to disclose as part of a process associated w/ running casinos in New Jersey in the past.

BTW, nobody is saying that it seems to be illegal for DJT loose almost a billion dollars in one year, and then possible not pay any federal taxes for eighteen years.

The fun thing is that I like the way that Rs get their not rich supporters to jabber about the need for ever more tax cuts for rich folks, the job creators. That's the best.

Jon Ericson said...

Keep practicing.

cubanbob said...

Unknown said...
R&B sounds as much a right winger as you Cubanbob, absolutely no difference.

10/1/16, 10:04 PM"

To you being a half inch to the right of Marx would make anyone a right-winger.

cubanbob said...

Unknown said...
Follow the Russian money to Trump, Cubanbob, then follow the Trump money to Cuba.

10/1/16, 10:09 PM"

As for Russian money, ask the Clinton's. They got it in spades. Saudi money as well. Lot's of money from all sorts of sleazy people. Cuba? Ask Obama and his best bud Castro. Like I said, follow the money and you will find a Clinton. And soon thereafter, Obama.

cubanbob said...

Michael The Magnificent said...
As I said, Hillary will continue the weaponization of the federal agencies against anyone standing in her way: Trump Tax Records Obtained by The Times Reveal He Could Have Avoided Paying Taxes for Nearly Two Decades

10/1/16, 11:27 PM"

Avoided. Not evaded. I'm impressed. I wish my CPA's and lawyers could have found a way for me to avoid income taxes for nearly two decades. A guy that is careful with his money that way inspires confidence that he will act prudently with taxpayers money unlike Democrats in general, always doing other people favors with your tax dollars.

cubanbob said...

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
One interesting side note will be that Rs will stop being sloppy when they conflate "half of Americans don't pay taxes" with "half or Americans don't pay federal income taxes."

I'm pretty sure Rs will start noticing and hyping that folks (or at least one billionaire) can be paying taxes, but not federal income taxes.

Cool stuff.

10/1/16, 11:47 PM"

Half of all Americans don't pay federal income taxes. You saying that isn't true? The taxes those people pay in federal excise taxes and payroll taxes don't amount to a fraction of the federal per capita spending on them.

As for Trump avoiding paying income tax, his various companies may well have carried losses forward and avoided paying income taxes on business income for years although its rather doubtful the losses could be carried forward for that many years. However Trump the man would have to deal with the AMT on his personal ordinary income which means he could not escape paying income tax on ordinary income. Unless he had zero ordinary income. So either he would have had to sell something to raise cash to pay his bills in which case he would have paid a gains tax or live off savings. You know something that no one else does?

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...

CubanB,

It certainly would be interesting to see DJT's tax returns. Your speculation only scratches the surface of possibilities. Even DJT's excuse for not releasing because of an audit doesn't work for the not under audit years, so lets see them for 2009 and back.

Anywho, hopefully someone has figured out how to keep DJT away from Twitter. I think it's been seven or so hours of Tweet silence from him. That seems like good restraint considering that his business smarts look a bit shaky after losing almost a billion dollars in one year. Likewise folks are having all sorts of fun w/ his previous Tweets where he fussed about folks not paying enough tax (e.g. at some point DJT complained that BHO only paid 20%).

Annie said...

You sure this was 'leaked' from February and not recently, in order to steal some of Trump's thunder, which clicks with more people, than her usual leftist drivel?
Trevor Loudon has another video of her speaking to radical activist Netroot Nation where she thanks them for pushing their progressive activism, that cops kill black children, and how she will budget in $1billion to combat racial bias in police departments. In other words, these activists and cronies in government will get the money and to hell with black communities who are already suffering more under Obama pushing the same. And that they should tie all of it up in the courts as often as possible.

Annie said...

cubanbob at 9:24 - Now there is a lesson to be learned from. Son in law bet the farm on Greece and FAIL! Now the emails re: Greece to/from Hillary are missing.
And we've seen what she did to the middle east. Just think what she'll do to us. But hey, if she wins, she can double her access fee.

Balfegor said...

She sounds more or less like what I'd imagined she would sound like -- she's not an ideologue; nor is she a populist centrist like Trump. She is, at heart, a dirigiste, with an old-fashioned belief in the notion that the best and the brightest can bring us to the perfect day. Since 2008, she's been heavily tarnished by her involvement in developing and implementing the cack-handed incompetence that has been Obama's foreign policy. And her inability to come clean about the whole business of the emails (probably because, like her husband before she, she's decided she can't admit to a knowing criminal violation on television).

But I'd still be fine with her as President, if only her party hadn't gone absolutely mad in the past 16 years. I have sort of the opposite of the reaction of most people of my age and class -- I think she is much, much better than the nastiness and bitterness and hatred that seethes through the party she leads. But, well, her victory would let such loathsome people remain in power that I can hardly support her.

eric said...

I realize this thread is probably done but I still feel like sticking in my two cents.

In days gone by, campaigns would preach to the fringe during the primary and then tack to the center during the General.

Isn't Hillary doing the exact opposite here?

How strange.

Mick said...

Nothing can equivocate the Crooked Old Lady starting wars all over the world and creating the refugee crisis, killing our ambassador in Benghazi, forming ISIS (by arming "anti-Assad rebels"), abusing her husbands sexual assault victims, violating the Federal Records Act, etc. etc.There is no way to rehabilitate this behavior.
There is no enthusiasm for the Crooked Old Lady (with good reason) even among the relativists of the Left. The Public HATES the media and the establishment politicians who continually ignore the criminality of the Crooked Old Lady and parse and examine every word or every action by Trump over the last 40 years. The more they attack Trump the stronger he gets.
Her rallies are 300 strong red diaper baby snooze fests, where Trump's rallies are arena filled rock concerts. The polls are a lie, and Trump is winning and will win by a Landslide. No amount of lying and deceit can overcome the massive lead he has, but the criminals in the Crooked Old Lady camp will try (See the boxes of ballots marked for Dem candidates and Clinton in Oh. found in a warehouse--- which of course will be ignored and shoved down the memory hole by the "media"). The Criminals will not relinquish control easily. LANDSLIDE TRUMP.

HT said...

Have you done the math? Can you show us how Trump wins in a landslide?

AprilApple said...

Balfegor,
Are you kidding? she will thread every government agency with insider deal cronies, pay-for play and corruption. The idea that she's really just a normal nice person with grand ideas is absurd.

SukieTawdry said...

There is nothing on God's green earth that could make me like Hillary "a lot more."

And why should I give credit to a politician who seems to acknowledge what every person on the planet with a lick of common sense understands and yet promises voters she'll do precisely the things she knows she can't do?

Why should I give credit to a politician who panders to youthful "idealism" by telling them they can have the things she knows can't be delivered? The young would be far better served by schooling them in the reasons why higher education is prohibitively expensive and why the job market isn't giving them much of a chance. And she should tell them bluntly that they'll never have the job they think they should have gotten out of college if they continue to pursue degrees in fields that have no market value (e.g. "studies").

But such would belie everything a progressive Democrat is supposed to believe so she'll continue to play the game. Like her a lot more? Hardly.

AprilApple said...

Despite Bernie's pie in the sky promises, Hillary still plans to tax the American people (a trillion removed from the private sector) as if she wanted to provide all those free Christmas presents to everyone.

Perhaps that's why people are angry. She's going to tax us like Bernie wants, but the money will go into a hole instead.

mikee said...

Bernie advocated a system of government inimical to the US Constitution, a political philosophy which has seen over 100,000,000 people killed by their own Socialist governments in the past century, an economic program that has uniformly led to disaster wherever tried. Hillary is so bad the Dems nearly went for it, instead of the corrupt cronyism of the current nominee.

That should scare the hell out of anyone.

Mark Caplan said...

Hillary says in the secret recording, "I think we can grow the economy, get back to a more broad-based, inclusive prosperity. We saw it in the '90s."

Hillary is praising her husband's bubble economy of the late '90s. Just bring back the liar loans, credit default swaps, and worthless paper rated "triple-A" and we can relive the high times of the late '90s.

SukieTawdry said...

Balfegor, just what is it about the woman that leads you to believe she is much, much better than the nastiness and bitterness and hatred that seethes through the party she leads?

Rhythm and Balls said...

R&B is decrying Hillary as a right winger and this is illustrative. The truth is Hillary is not right or left. She is pure distilled corruption.

True. I wouldn't necessarily argue. Just illustrating the point for fangirl "Unknown." She will do whatever advances her "glorious" hold on power and has no actual guiding ideology, or really any principles for that matter - on what she feels is right or wrong or even consistent with a defensible philosophy that would provide a stable framework for helping to guide a morally interested person.

But yes, she did do all those anti-progressive things - things that even Republicans don't argue with any more, and is essentially running as an unalloyed warmongering Wall Street corporate war hawk. Because those are the only powers she respects. The people, their economic realities - they can eat cake. Violence and economic depredation - those are her preferred tools of state. The things she respects. The things she relates to.

Corruption, corporatism, militarism and feminism. That's Hillary. The female side of evil.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Bernie advocated a system of government inimical to the US Constitution, a political philosophy which has seen over 100,000,000 people killed by their own Socialist governments in the past century, an economic program that has uniformly led to disaster wherever tried. Hillary is so bad the Dems nearly went for it, instead of the corrupt cronyism of the current nominee.

That should scare the hell out of anyone.


Then I could get you to jump 50 feet out of your bed by rolling out a bronze bust of FDR from under it, you paranoid ignoramus.

Paul Snively said...

khesanh0802: No one can deny that Clinton is smart and knowledgeable.

I deny that Clinton is smart and knowledgable. By the way, I was told the same thing about "Con law prof" Barack Obama, and I deny that, too.

What they have in common is a finely honed ability to say exactly nothing in as many words as possible, assembled into phrases defined as signifying "good sociopolitical values" by their listeners. This is all it takes to pass for "intelligent" and "knowledgeable" in those circles: to be a passing good wordsmith of cookie-cutter leftist sentiment—as long as it's leftist.

SukieTawdry said...

Why is it that Democrats are able to persuade the IRS to leak opponent's tax returns and the courts to release sealed divorce records?

Paul Snively said...

gadfly: Little more than a decade after investing in Gary, Trump’s casino company declared bankruptcy and cashed out his stake in the boat — leaving behind lawsuits and hard feelings in a city where more than one-third of residents live in poverty... And it would be helpful to me if someone would explain why none of these examples of nastiness and dishonesty don't turn off his supporters. Do Americans really like to elect crooks?

It would be helpful to me if someone would explain how a developer investing for over a decade in a business (that is, by the way, supposed to make money) divesting when the business goes bankrupt is a crook.

AprilApple said...

"The truth is Hillary is not right or left. She is pure distilled corruption."

Worth a good bold.


mockturtle said...

Snively at 9:34: You've nailed it!

Mick said...

HT said...
"Have you done the math? Can you show us how Trump wins in a landslide?"

Can you show me how 300 person rallies for the Crooked Old Lady vs. 10-15K person rallies for Trump translates into the Crooked Old Lady leading?

Trump is WAY AHEAD, thus the desperation in the "media" and the political establishment to smear and ridicule and demonize Trump. He will win Fla, Oh., Penn., NY, Tex., NC. + 40 or so other states. The Crooked Old Lady will win Ill., Min., Ca. (hopeless causes) and maybe a couple others---

LANDSLIDE TRUMP, The only one in this race that loves his country (from the beginning).

Annie said...

Mick, don't forget that the dead and the illegals will be voting. They're usually hard to poll before elections. There have already been reports of the long dead registering to vote in this election.
And don't forget how easy electronic voting is to hack.

Annie said...

Will the real Hillary Clinton please stand up, please stand up --

From July.

In the video, Hillary Clinton:

-- claimed that police officers are killing black children,
-- said she wants to earmark $1 billion dollars in her first budget to combat “implicit bias, which remains a problem across our society and even in the best of our police departments,”
-- encouraged left-wing bloggers, socialists and community organizers to engage in a vile left-wing (and often successful) tactic of strategic litigation by “seek[ing] out cases to challenge Citizen’s United in the courts,” so that she can bolster a case for a constitutional amendment to overturn the supreme court’s ruling.

http://www.trevorloudon.com/2016/09/watch-hillary-clinton-vows-to-spend-1b-taxpayer-dollars-on-implicit-bias-says-police-kill-black-children-video/

HT said...

Well he definitely wins the rallies. And I get it that you have strong feelings against Clinton.

But have you done the math? Are there enough non-whites and women who will vote for him?

Mick said...

HT said...
"Well he definitely wins the rallies. And I get it that you have strong feelings against Clinton.

But have you done the math? Are there enough non-whites and women who will vote for him?"


The "non- whites and women against Trump" is another lie of the media and establishment politicians. Trump will get 10-15% (unheard of for a Republican candidate) of the Black vote and 40% of women. Are you done with the Left-wing talking points passed around by Journolist? Crooked Old Lady rallies belie a lack of enthusiasm. Millions less votes for the Crooked Old Lady than Obama got vs. MILLIONS more Republican votes for Trump than any other Republican since Reagan--- that is the real "math".
I see with my eyes, not what "Journolist" tells me.

Mick said...

Annie said...
"Mick, don't forget that the dead and the illegals will be voting. They're usually hard to poll before elections. There have already been reports of the long dead registering to vote in this election.
And don't forget how easy electronic voting is to hack".


Yes I get that Annie, but the lead that Trump has is impossible to overcome without it being obvious. That is why the "media" are trying to portray the race as "neck and neck". You heard about the boxes of votes found in OH.?

HT said...

No one throws the insults around quite like you do, but are you relying on your gut or have you seen any polls?

cubanbob said...

PBandJ_Ombudsman said...
CubanB,

It certainly would be interesting to see DJT's tax returns. Your speculation only scratches the surface of possibilities. Even DJT's excuse for not releasing because of an audit doesn't work for the not under audit years, so lets see them for 2009 and back.

Anywho, hopefully someone has figured out how to keep DJT away from Twitter. I think it's been seven or so hours of Tweet silence from him. That seems like good restraint considering that his business smarts look a bit shaky after losing almost a billion dollars in one year. Likewise folks are having all sorts of fun w/ his previous Tweets where he fussed about folks not paying enough tax (e.g. at some point DJT complained that BHO only paid 20%).

10/2/16, 2:00 AM"

Amazon has yet to be profitable and somehow Bezos is one of the richest men in the world. It would be interesting to see his tax returns. True he isn't running for president but then again as a propagandist for Hillary Clinton through fabulously unprofitable WaPo.....or that Lebanese Mexican Carlos Slim and the Sulzberger family and the equally unprofitable NYT....

Mick said...

HT said...
"No one throws the insults around quite like you do, but are you relying on your gut or have you seen any polls?"


Have you seen any REAL polls? How is it that The Crooked Old Lady has anemic attendance at rallies, with Trump's being packed rock concerts, yet the Crooked Old Lady is winning? I see with my eyes, not with what the liars tell me.

The Crooked Old Lady had to cheat to beat an old Communist, and has received MANY less votes than the Usurper Hussein Obama did, yet you think she will beat Trump, who has amassed the most Republican votes in history in the Primaries?

Trump LANDSLIDE.

HT said...

Can you give me an example of a poll you consider to be real?

Mick said...

HT said...
Can you give me an example of a poll you consider to be real?

No

Mick said...

The Crooked Old Lady can't fill a Black Church on Sunday Morning

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2016/10/02/hillary-cant-fill-a-black-church-on-a-sunday-morning/