June 14, 2016

President Obama's Sermon of 2 Perversions.

President Obama addressed the Orlando massacre in a 25-minute speech today. I'll just focus on what he said about calling ISIS "radical Islamists":
For a while now, the main contribution of some of my friends on the other side of the aisle have made in the fight against ISIL is to criticize this administration and me for not using the phrase "radical Islam." That's the key, they tell us. We can't beat ISIL unless we call them radical Islamists.

What exactly would using this label would accomplish? What exactly would it change? Would it make ISIL less committed to trying to kill Americans? Would it bring in more allies? Is there a military strategy that is served by this? The answer, is none of the above. Calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away. This is a political distraction.
So there's no value to using this phrase, he says, but I'll note the obvious: If it's only a "political distraction," you could make the distraction go away by using the term. So the key is that there's value in not saying it. That's where he goes next. The familiar idea, as you can see below, is that he wants to convey the message that the form of Islam used by the terrorists is an incorrect interpretation of Islam.

This puts the President of the United States in the position of saying what is orthodox in religion. (I'm reminded — and this is Flag Day — of the Supreme Court's Pledge of Allegiance case with the great line: "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion...".) But that's his approach and he's sticking to it. Here's how he repeated his iffy religious pronouncement:
Since before I was president, I've been clear about how extremist groups have perverted Islam to justify terrorism. 
There are many versions of all of the religions. How is he supposed to know what versions are perversions? It sounds awful: perversion! But how can it mean more than that it's religion that seems bad to him? In which case, it's still religion. It's religion he doesn't like.
As president, I have called on our Muslim friends and allies at home and around the world to work with us to reject this twisted interpretation of one of the world's great religions.
This is a pragmatic political point. He wants to maintain good relations with the masses of people around the world who have preferable interpretations of Islam.
There has not been a moment in my seven and a half years as president where we have not able to pursue a strategy because we didn't use the label "radical Islam." Not once has an adviser of mine said, "Man, if we really use that phrase, we're going to turn this whole thing around." Not once.
That's amusingly put, and I'm impressed that he found a way to be so amusing in the aftermath of a horror, but, again, he's speaking as a practical man. He doesn't need to say "radical Islam."
So if someone seriously thinks that we don't know who we're fighting, if there is anyone out there who thinks we're confused about who our enemies are -- that would come as a surprise to the thousands of terrorists who we've taken off the battlefield....
There are some people who think you're confused about what our enemies are. They think you might be denying that these people do believe in their religion, recruit through religious belief, and act because of religious belief.
They know who the nature of the enemy is. 
Again with the "who," even where it is not idiomatic English. A straightforward, clear speaker of English as a first language would say: They know what the nature of the enemy is. He is suppressing something. He doesn't want to talk about what these people are really like inside. He's dwelling on identifying them as bomb targets, not understanding how their mind works. He knows who they are without delving into their Islamism, but not what they are.
So, there is no magic to the phrase "radical Islam." It's a political talking point. It's not a strategy.
Those 3 sentences are all different. 1. No one said there was any "magic," as if they'd disappear if you said the words, Rumpelstiltskinesquely. 2. It sure is a political talking point, but that doesn't mean it's only a political talking point, and you yourself are using political points, and you could, if you wanted, make a political talking point out of using the phrase and wreck their talking point. 3. It may not be a strategy, but it could be part of various strategies (since it involves understanding their motives and determination).
And the reason I am careful about how I describe this threat has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with actually defeating extremism.
Okay, so he's about to explain how refraining from using the phrase fits into a better strategy for defeating them.
Groups like ISIL and al-Qaeda want to make this war a war between Islam and America, or between Islam and the West. They want to claim that they are the true leaders of over a billion of Muslims around the world who reject their crazy notions.
Oh! He said "crazy"! This is like Hillary yesterday calling Omar Mateen a "madman." The terrorists not only don't have religion, they don't even have ideas, only "crazy notions."
They want us to validate them by implying that they speak for those billion-plus people, that they speak for Islam. 
So, the idea — not a terrible idea, I'd say — is that by saying "Islam" at all, even in the formulation "radical Islamists," there's a risk of being heard as recognizing the terrorists as the leaders of Islam or representing the Islam side in an us-vs.-them war.
That's their propaganda, that's how they recruit. And if we fall into the trap of painting all Muslims with a broad brush, and imply that we are at war with an entire religion, then we are doing the terrorists' work for them.
The people who want to say "radical Islamists" — most of them — don't mean to make that broader statement, but the problem, Obama is saying, is that it can be heard that way.

At this point, Obama turns his attention to Donald Trump. It's one thing to have "partisan" "yapping," but much more dangerous to have a policy proposal that "singles out immigrants and suggests entire religious communities are complicit in violence."
Where does this stop? The Orlando killer, one of the San Bernardino killers, the Fort Hood killer -- they were all U.S. citizens. Are we going to start treating all Muslim Americans differently? Are we going to start subjecting them to special surveillance? Are we going to start discriminating against them, because of their faith?...
It's a bad direction to take, a turning away from American values, a — now, this is the right word — perversion.

And now, Obama gets to do the kind of sermon that warrants a President in the pulpit:
This is a country founded on basic freedoms, including freedom of religion. We don't have religious tests here. Our founders, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, are clear about that. And if we ever abandon those values, we would not only make it a lot easier to radicalize people here and around the world, but we would have betrayed the very things we are trying to protect.The pluralism and the openness, our rule of law, our civil liberties, the very things that make this country great. The very things that make us exceptional. And then the terrorists would have won, and we cannot let that happen. I will not let that happen.

407 comments:

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Drago said...

First things first.

PBandJ_LeDouanier: "Also, you and I both need to learn the html for href clickable weblinks."

I did use them for quite awhile, but I went back. I simply prefer to show the links.


PBJ: "Drago, I was throwing you a bone there. Without some silver lining, what excuse is there for the Rs in Congress refusing to provide BHO w/ authorization to fight in Syria?"

This is not an unfair question and I will attempt to answer it.

To begin with, because like the Dems, the Repubs are politicians and here we have an instance where obama had already taken many actions where he claimed he did not need Repub authorization (even when many argued he did). So the repubs said: screw it.

Further, it was not clear that obama had any real plan to engage sufficiently to meet the fuzzy objectives, so that created great uncertainty in the outcome.

I would venture the repubs saw no upside and only downside. If obama wanted to attack he could, as he had already done. And, if he attacked without repub support and it failed, the repubs could wash their hands of the entire affair.

No one is arguing profiles in courage here.

But you cannot pretend there was no greater political context in this scenario.


Drago said...

R&B: "This has nothing to do with courage ...."

LOL

Well, isn't that convenient for you?

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

PB: Drago thanks you for bringing the thread to places other than his support for terrorists and their gun ownership interests.

Drago said...

R&B: "There is a lot of pining for the sort of butch lesbian that you wish you were in your postings."

I have to admit that if I were a lesbian, I would imagine I would have to be a butch one.

But then I'm forced to ponder this from my current station.

Captain Drano said...

Exiled@7:53, touché.

And in light of this evening's ISIS statement, it infuriates me that all the left does is push an agenda to take away a regular person's ability to defend their family. It's not like every person so inclined to go all Omar has not yet acquired weapons of some fashion of another. (Consider the AR-Oneida longblade the Paris terrorist used last night to slit the throat of the Mom, and stab the Dad dead 24 times, as he videoed the 3 y.o. saying "I don't know what I'm going to do to it yet.") So either the left is on the other side, or they are complete fucking fools--I'm not sure which. Anyhow, here's part of the ISIS statement:

""Hero" Mateen "responded to the call of jihad... to send the message that we are all ticking time bombs and may explode anytime and anywhere," the Al-Battar statement said, highlighting the latter part in red. "The battle, America, is no longer in the land of the Muslims alone, but in your land."

Future lone jihadis are encouraged to "select a target accordingly" as Mateen did for "great global impact," calling the LGBT nightclub "a very smart choice."

The statement specifically suggests targeting movie theaters, hospitals, airports, trains, amusement parks and restaurants. Orlando station WFTV reported that Mateen may have cased Disney Springs -- a dining and entertainment complex at Disney World -- in April and was traced to the center by a cell phone ping just hours before the Pulse nightclub attack.

Al-Battar also encourages jihadis to diversify with poisons and gases. "You are in a great jihad; jihad is greater than our brothers in Syria and Iraq."

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Well, isn't that convenient for you?

It's apparently NOT convenient for you, Huma.

Clyde said...

Most liberals like Obama and Hillary do not have any religious beliefs (other than in Big Government or Climate Change). Because they don't, they don't comprehend that other people can and do. It is incomprehensible to them that many Muslims really believe that their god wants them to kill or subjugate gays, women and pretty much anyone who doesn't follow their own particular brand of Islam. One who believes in nothing much cannot understand the true believer.

Drago said...

RB's: "PB: Drago thanks you for bringing the thread to places other than his support for terrorists and their gun ownership interests."

Shhhhh. There are no terrorists. Just gay muslims lashing out due to Trump.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

But then I'm forced to ponder this from my current station.

I see. The costume store ran out of both Hillary and Huma costumes for you to purchase and occasionally model yourself in this year.

Bummer.

Michael said...

I am worn out with being lectured by this sanctimonious self important pompous jackass. It is never my first thought with people like this but I am concluding that he is not just shallow but stupid.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Shhhhh. There are no terrorists. Just gay muslims lashing out due to Trump.

Is that what you wrote when you decided that it was only fair and right to give him a gun?

Drago said...

Meeeea: "And in light of this evening's ISIS statement, it infuriates me that all the left does is push an agenda to take away a regular person's ability to defend their family."

It's important to R&B that while the left allows millions more muslims into the country that average Americans be simultaneously disarmed.

We might even decide it's time to construct another "Gorelick Wall" to ensure that intelligence agencies don't communicate effectively with each other.

You know, just to keep things "even" I guess.

Sebastian said...

"This puts the President of the United States in the position of saying what is orthodox in religion." Yes, but only for show. Only insofar as it protects the Prog line on Muzzie goodness and American evil, to justify inaction and weakness in foreign policy, to keep the focus on the approved domestic Christian/white/male/Trumpist/NRA targets.

Of course, a serious person [snark aimed at O, not AA!] would inquire how the Prez line on orthodoxy comports with Islamic scripture and teaching. What do we find? Homosexuality is punishable by pretty painful sanctions in many Muslim countries. The Koran has some harsh things to say about it. The father of the Orlando killer holds some pretty nasty views. Portraying Islam as tolerant of LGBT is in fact unorthodox.

Drago said...

R&B: "Is that what you wrote when you decided that it was only fair and right to give him a gun?"

Obama's FBI decided to give him a gun.

Which shouldn't surprise you, since obama had already given assault rifles to Mexican drug cartels so they could murder US Border patrolmen.

You know, "by accident".

buwaya said...

"Is it true that the AR and cartridge derive from a gun designed for the military to use in battle?"

Interestingly the 5.56 cartridge used in the ARs derives directly from a civilian cartridge (one of those quirks), the Remington .222
Though you could say that the Remington .222 ultimately derived from the Mauser cartridges of the 19th century, of which it is just a shrunken, refined variant.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's important to R&B that while the left allows millions more muslims into the country that average Americans be simultaneously disarmed.

Wow. Your hormones really are clogging up your thinking tonight, Dragon.

Are terrorism watch list suspects "average Americans?" Should they be?

And of course, you can't find any place where I voiced any support for unfettered immigration. But blurring the lines is an important trait for a transgender butch lesbian wanna-be like you, I suppose.

khesanh0802 said...

To all the regulars: Trying to engage with R&B is like trying to engage with the Crack Emcee (remember him?). My advice at that time, and it remains appropriate with R&B, is ignore the guy. He does nothing but hijack and ruin a thread. It is like trying to engage a fifth grader - pointless. By comparison with R&B dealing with Garage was almost enlightening.

JAORE said...

"I think the better argument against bans is that there are plenty of other guns that can to the same damage, but don't look like a so-called assault weapon. OTOH, this is also why I don't think gun folks must have these guns, they can get the same result w/o them."

The AR (and similar) platforms have many advantages over gentler looking semi-auto rifles. They don't put those rough looking hand guards and carrying handles on the AR just because it looks tough. That is a functional platform for mounting accessories.

And, PB&J, yes the AR platform can be a fine gun for hunting. One difference is that the military uses full metal jacketed ammo. Civilians can use expanding bullets. What you hunt depends on the caliber, the .308 is available in AR type guns and is a prime choice for deer sized (and larger) game. The typical .223 is excellent for small game. For example I've been invited to thin the troublesome numbers of feral hogs on a farm. I'm using my old 30-30 lever action. My buddy is using his AR. I'm jealous as hell.

Sprezzatura said...

"But you cannot pretend there was no greater political context in this scenario."

Sure. And, I do clearly recall that the Rs, at the time, used the excuse that they couldn't trust BHO. But, that excuse is not reasonable, if the threat was truly urgent. If N Korea had somehow launched nukes at us, would the Rs authorize BHO to use force? Of course. But w/ Syria, they said no because they themselves assumed that the threat to our country and interests was JV level.

It is interesting that even though it's not to rare to hear about BHO and the red line, pretty much nobody mentions the part played by the Rs in Congress. I guess that has to do w/ where the buck stops.

Lewis Wetzel said...

President Trump: As you all know, the White House has been occupied by dozens of Islam Perverting Terrorists. We are cut off from the outside world. We are going to have to fight our way to freedom. I am armed with a stiletto that Dick Nixon left in a desk drawer.
Vice President Gingrich, do you have anything that could be used as a weapon?

Vice President Newt Gingrich: Yes. I have one of Ike's golf clubs. Not a driver, I'm afraid. It's a three iron. But I can be counted to get a few of those bastards when we're within swinging distance!

President Trump: Great! How about you, Secretary of War Palin?

Secretary of War Sarah Palin: I have a tube of lipstick.

President Trump: Lipstick?

Secretary of War Sarah Palin: Poison lipstick. I'm told that J. Edgar used it to great effect.

President Trump: That is fantastic, really fantastic! Here, let me put some on my stiletto . . . now, secretary of Affirmative Action R&B. What kind of weapon have you got?

Secretary of Affirmative Action R&B: I have my invincible wall of ignorance, sir!

President Trump: That is terrific! You'll take the lead, R&B!

Drago said...

R&B: "Are terrorism watch list suspects "average Americans?"

Lets ask Lois Lerner.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"I'm glad you approve of your fantasy man Omar Mateen's "morals" and ethics"

Mateen? The registered Democrat?


"I'm not even going to touch this one, Hillary. You sound about one step away from saying that the Floridians deserved to die for not being "manly" enough. Kill the homos, saith the wacky "exiled" bitch."

I said nothing about the gays. I know some pretty manly gay men (it's you who made the assumption that they are all weaklings like you.) I was talking about you, you blathering, cowardly, pussy boy, who wets his panties and howls like a wounded hyena at the thought of those scary guns that scary people out there in that scary land beyond the Hudson handle all the time with.

"Geez, is it any wonder men have better things to do than to waste their time with you, ballistic Helga?"

You know about as much about men as you do about guns. It's true that I probably have more testosterone than you, but so does the 7 year old girl who lives across the street. I'd say I feel sorry for your girlfriend, since she's a goner if she ever has to depend on you to protect her, but then I realized that it doesn't make sense to feel sorry for an inflatable doll.

It's funny that you compare me to Hill since her view of guns mirrors your own. She doesn't want ordinary people to be able to defend themselves either.


"You don't impress me. You're the American equivalent of an East European 'roided out gymnast with hairy underarms and biceps bigger than barrels. Totally psycho and not worth the trouble."

Ah, Ritmo, projecting again. Here's a nice leftist SJW for you. She's available and undoubtedly would agree with you about conservatives and guns. You also seem a great match as far as temperament goes. I love playing match maker! :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHKmYCCX4_w

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Obama's FBI decided to give him a gun.

"Obama's" FBI (as you put it), doesn't have any more of a right to restrict that right than "any other president's" FBI does. Should it?

My, my. You really are bending things awfully strangely tonight. You might even pull that Buffalo Bill move and dance backwards.

mockturtle said...

As it turns out, this particular terrorist really WAS a 'perverted' Muslim.

Michael K said...

"M.K.

Are you sure that's a gun for hunting? Presumably a gun designed for killing in war is not the best option for killing game."

How would you know ?

You and Ritmo are so stupid you drive people away.

I make the mistake, from time to time, of treating you two as intelligent enough to discuss some topics.

Sorry. You are all about spouting ignorant fluff.

I apologize to other commenters for encouraging them.

Hagar said...

All big game in North America has been killed with .22 Long Rifle ammunition. This still is a highly irresponsible thing to set out to do.

.223 whatever ammunition is the same actual caliber as .22LR with bullets approximately equal to .22 Magnum and mated to a necked down centerfire rifle cartridge. They are very hot speedwise, but way too light to go hunting deer, or any game near to that size with.
30-30 Carbine is the smallest cartridge recommended for hunting deer, and that is for forest hunting where the range usually is only 100 yards or so.

The idea with .223 military ammunition is to wound more than kill, on the idea that a wounded sodier takes at least two more soldiers out of action to care for him. It is the opposite of the idea behind the M1911 .45 ACP, which was developed to stop a charging man in his tracks after it was found that the .38 Special revolver cartridge just would not stop a charging "Moro" ("moor," or Moslem tribal warrior) in the Philippine Wars of the early 20th century.

Sprezzatura said...

M.K.

You should read up thread. Your answer could have been so much better.

Drago said...

PBJ: "Sure. And, I do clearly recall that the Rs, at the time, used the excuse that they couldn't trust BHO. But, that excuse is not reasonable, if the threat was truly urgent."

Which "threat" was truly urgent and to whom?

PBJ: "If N Korea had somehow launched nukes at us, would the Rs authorize BHO to use force? Of course."

Would you like to reconsider how analogous Syria and "N Korea launching nukes" really is?

PBJ: "But w/ Syria, they said no because they themselves assumed that the threat to our country and interests was JV level."

And thus we see the clever lefty rhetorician, by sleight of hand, attempt to place into Republican mouths the words and meaning of BHO.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's true that I probably have more testosterone than you, but so does the 7 year old girl who lives across the street.

Another moron who knows nothing of science.

I'd say I feel sorry for your girlfriend, since she's a goner if she ever has to depend on you to protect her, but then I realized that it doesn't make sense to feel sorry for an inflatable doll.

The good thing about having the wits that any boyfriend with enough steroids in his system to stand you lacks, is that he'll never figure on the futility of being drawn upon first. But it's possible and likely that the gene pool will get lucky and he (and you) will just fulfill your destinies of adding to the gun suicide rates, which are double gun homicide rates.

The good thing about wits is you more easily stay out of trouble, and can more easily get out of it. Something that civilian wanna-be artillery commanders like you are insecure about.

It's funny that you compare me to Hill since her view of guns mirrors your own. She doesn't want ordinary people to be able to defend themselves either.

It's funny that you take Hillary's current position to be more "authentic" than when she played Annie Oakley in 2008 and was readier to poke a gun up your rusty cunt than you are. But no one with any brains assumes that. We assume she's just as flexible on that one as the two of you are when you're all playing naked Twister with Huma, or trying out a thousand different pairs of pants in the morning.

Hagar said...

Feral hogs are dangerous game. 30-06/308 or better would be much preferable.

JAORE said...

"The idea with .223 military ammunition is to wound more than kill, on the idea that a wounded sodier takes at least two more soldiers out of action to care for him."

Hager I agree with much of what you say, especially about the tactical advantage of wounding your adversary...... but (you knew there was a "but" coming, right).

The 5.56 (the original military round) was, of course full metal jacket. In addition the rifle barrels had/have a slow twist (9:1 if memory serves). That is the basis for the tumbling effect. The non-expanding bullets often simply punched small in and out holes in the game. That left an reputation that the 5.56 was ill suited for game heavier than a coyote.

Today's .223, the virtually identical civilian cartridge, now come with heavier bullets available and with tips that allow expansion. In addition many of the rifles have quicker twists that prevent the tumbling and increase accuracy at longer range. That makes then fine for a lot more game species than in the past.

Plus, of course, the AR platform also comes in larger calibers like 6.5 mm and .308. Plenty good for deer and even larger game.

chuck said...

> "Is it true that the AR and cartridge derive from a gun designed for the military to use in battle?"

The 5.56 NATO cartridge derived from the civilian .222 Remington with a couple of tweaks for greater power and use in automatic weapons. There are certainly more powerful civilian cartridges.

chickelit said...

R&B wrote As for your beloved assault rifles, read up on how these NAZI weapons came to be in the first place.

Why read about it when you can watch a video I linked? The narrators even have cool British accents.

@R&B: Isn't your comment a bit like saying "As for your beloved rockets, read up on how these NAZI weapons came to be in the first place."*
_________________

*With all due respect to the Chinese and Robert Goddard.

Drago said...

chickelit: "*With all due respect to the Chinese and Robert Goddard"

Well, yes. But lets face it, our German rocket scientists really were better than the Soviet German rocket scientists.

Anonymous said...

If the murdered at the Pulse nightclub had been forty-nine gorillas, all of Mecca would be a rubble.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

@R&B: Isn't your comment a bit like saying "As for your beloved rockets, read up on how these NAZI weapons came to be in the first place."*

Nah. Rockets have a place in a civilized society.

Hagar said...

A .22 will kill if it hits in a vital spot, but a 30-06 will also stun like a sledgehammer and break bones wherever it hits.

Unknown said...

unknown at 6/14/16, 4:50 PM, you're giving the rest of us a bad name. Just like the radical Islamists.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I wonder what the Israelis could learn from us when it comes to arming their terrorism suspects.

chickelit said...

Well, yes. But lets face it, our German rocket scientists really were better than the Soviet German rocket scientists.

No quarrel here. I've read my Neufeld.

chickelit said...

Rhythm and Balls said...I wonder what the Israelis could learn from us when it comes to arming their terrorism suspects.

Might we not learn from their profiling?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Rhythm and (shrunken,raisin-like) Balls, there is no need to feel shame over your low-T, really. It happens to lots of men, although admittedly most of them do not turn into ranting hysterical manginas. Help is available for you!

My boyfriend doesn't have the wits? He's an anesthesiologist. Again, getting out of Manhattan some time and seeing the rest of the country might do you some good. You appear to envision trailer parks from coast to coast. Besides being snobbish (why do you hate poor people?) it's pretty stupid.

Right, Hill and the Dems are all about gun rights.

Why would you think insulting Hillary would hurt my feelings in the slightest? That's hilarious but yet another example of your illogical spite.
Keep on spitting and drooling all over your keyboard. I understand that sexually impotent men get frustrated and sometimes vent their hatred and venom at women. Don't worry. Like I said, help is available for you. I'm sure that hot lefty chick in the video I linked to would provide a sympathetic ear as well as many many useful folds.

Ta, ta, sweetie!

Gahrie said...

I wonder what the Israelis could learn from us when it comes to arming their terrorism suspects.

Doesn't matter...we arm their enemies for them.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Might we not learn from their profiling?

Where does that end? They also write "Arab" or "Jew" on their identity cards.

The issue is this. We have a constitution, they don't. I can't understand how these Althousians came to be more sensitive about the terrorists' gun rights (which aren't constitutionally protected) than about their due process (which is).

chickelit said...

The issue is this. We have a constitution, they don't. I can't understand how these Althousians came to be more sensitive about the terrorists' gun rights (which aren't constitutionally protected) than about their due process (which is).

Who here is saying that Mateen should have been sold guns? I thought the suspicious thing is why he was a person of interest -- even trips to Saudi Arabia and yet slipped through. I'm not hearing much about that -- presumably because it's too embarrassing to certain agencies.

Drago said...

R&B: "We have a constitution, they don't. I can't understand how these Althousians came to be more sensitive about the terrorists' gun rights (which aren't constitutionally protected) than about their due process (which is)."

This just in, Republicans align with ACLU to oppose the dems transparent attempts to remove the 2nd amendment rights from American citizens without due process: http://abcnews.go.com/US/individuals-fbis-terrorist-watchlist-allowed-legally-purchase-firearms/story?id=35264669

snip: "The American Civil Liberties Union opposes the watchlist program and calls the watchlisting process "unfair.

The federal government’s watchlist system lacks the kind of narrow, specific criteria and rigorous safeguards that would help protect innocent people from the negative consequences of blacklisting," said Hugh Handeyside, a staff attorney with the ACLU National Security Project. "Instead, the criteria are overbroad, ensnaring innocents, and the system as a whole is unfair and bloated with no meaningful way to clear one’s name and get off the lists.”

Of course, the very fact that the list would be broad and not protect innocent people from negative consequences of blacklisting and with no meaningful way to clear one's name and get off the list is precisely why the lefties are screaming for this.

To paraphrase Jerry McGuire: They had the lefties at "blacklist".

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Why would you think insulting Hillary would hurt my feelings in the slightest?

I think the two of you are probably very, very similar. And full of just about the exact same amount of shit.

Although it's possible that Bill's slightly more cultured than your "mangina?" boyfriend. I am sure that once he is done putting everyone who's met him to sleep he will have figured you out, moved on, and left you to skank onto the next male symbol of whatever status you never felt that you actually had within yourself.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

"The American Civil Liberties Union opposes the watchlist program and calls the watchlisting process "unfair.

That's not why you oppose it. No matter how "fair" it were to be made (and the ACLU would probably still object anyway), you'd still be there, arguing for just any random terrorist's "gun rights" just as soon as they got into the country.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

It's a lie that anyone wanted this angry radical Muslim to have a gun. But - this is the false narrative being pushed by the hack press.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Who here is saying that Mateen should have been sold guns?

Every right-wing Althousian is on record as opposing any method of restricting him those purchases.

It's very common among the right wing to hold such an asinine position, actually.

Drago said...

R&B: "Although it's possible that Bill's slightly more cultured than your "mangina?" boyfriend. I am sure that once he is done putting everyone who's met him to sleep he will have figured you out, moved on, and left you to skank onto the next male symbol of whatever status you never felt that you actually had within yourself."

The self-loathing in this one is so very, very deep.

And to think, one, just one, experience in life where R&B had to overcome some physical challenge might have been enough to set him on a different path.

It's important at a young age to allow young men to face adversity and overcome hardship so that they might grow in maturity and self-confidence. Not a false confidence hidden behind pitiable invective but real confidence born of accomplishment and a real sense of achievement.

For R&B, that opportunity is probably long past. But it's not too late for others.

Assuming R&B's muslim friends don't murder them first.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's a lie that anyone wanted this angry radical Muslim to have a gun.

Then you pick the criteria for determining refusal. But Drago the Delinquent is already on record as allying with the ACLU to bitch about how "unfair" it would have been to use the most obvious criteria that we have in place already. And he's far from alone.

Drago said...

R&B: "That's not why you oppose it. No matter how "fair" it were to be made (and the ACLU would probably still object anyway), you'd still be there, arguing for just any random terrorist's "gun rights" just as soon as they got into the country."

It's going to take a great deal more effort to move those goalposts out of the stadium and into the middle of the parking lot.

Good luck.

Huh said...

Since Islam was created 1400 years ago, it has been characterized as a religion that was fighting for world domination. During those 1400 years, Muslims used terrorism, war, propaganda, assassinations,, and every other option they had in their effort to expand their religion by conquering all they could. Once they conquered your country or land, you were given a choice to either live as a second class citizen and pay a hefty tax, convert to Islam, or die.
>
If Islam has been at war with the world since its inception and since it has used terrorism as well as other methods in their attempt to accomplish their goal of global dominance, then why is it the case today that the strategy and tactics that have been used for 1400 years are suddenly representing the wrong interpretation of Islam? It boggles the mind how Obama can ignore 1400 years of history for his convenience.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

We want law abiding citizens to own guns (if they want to) - Not radical Islamists.

Unlike democrats, WE don't want radical Islamists in our country.

Drago said...

Unknown: "During those 1400 years, Muslims used terrorism, war, propaganda, assassinations,, and every other option they had in their effort to expand their religion by conquering all they could."

But that's only because Crusades and "merica and George Bush! said every lefty everywhere.

Night Owl said...

"He already says that these are Perverted Muslims, what exactly is better by calling them Radical Muslims?"

If there is no substantial difference between the two words, as you imply and I tend to agree with, then why won't he use the phrase "radical Islam"? He either believes there is a difference between radical and perverted, which he needs to explain, or he is claiming a distinction w/o a difference just to be divisive.

My comment was about leaders needing to inspire confidence in people that they take the threat of Islamic terrorism seriously. If saying the phrase "radical Islam" can accomplish this, why does he resist?

Michael K said...

"Feral hogs are dangerous game. 30-06/308 or better would be much preferable."

The AR 15 is popular, in some measure, because it is pretty easy to change the upper receiver and barrel to another caliber, like .308. That way you don't need to buy a second rifle and can use what you are comfortable with.

For example.

My grandson who is 10 has fired my AR 15 and done pretty well on targets at about 50 yards. He has also fired my Walther PPK but the Colt .45 1911 is just too big for his hands. I fired a Colt .45 when I was 10 and the recoil was impressive. The AR 15, contrary to the idiot in the NY Daily News, has little recoil.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

At 9:09 a comment was posted that was as incomprehensibly stupid as the worst cyber spam ever received in history.

But it does seem to give the person who posted it the rare air of something vaguely approaching "confidence", and that's important for a white knight like him to be able to project every now and then. He so rarely gets, you know, the opportunity for such displays - or at least the human props necessary for them.

"exiledonmainstreet" has an admirer! Or maybe he just lusts after her ostensible boyfriend.

Drago said...

R&B: "But Drago the Delinquent is already on record as allying with the ACLU ..."

Note to self: aligning with the ACLU is now a fault according to the newest (revised hourly) lefty "rulebook".

One must stay on ones toes in the lefty rulebook "fireswamp".

Drago said...

R&B: "Or maybe he just lusts after her ostensible boyfriend. "

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

We want law abiding citizens to own guns (if they want to) - Not radical Islamists.

Unlike democrats, WE don't want radical Islamists in our country.


They're already here, dipshit, and trying to board planes.

We seem to be keeping them off at an acceptable rate, however.

Just what is it about not being able to legally board a plane that you think makes someone likely to be a law-abiding gun owner, you completely irrational asshole with a crush on fictive anesthesiologists.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Note to self: aligning with the ACLU is now a fault according to the newest (revised hourly) lefty "rulebook".

No. It just shows you're opportunistic and ideologically incoherent.

Like Hillary.

Americans don't trust their security with the likes of you.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Oh, BTW, R & B, did you ever bitch about this when Bernie was still in the picture? 'Cause Hill did:

"Vermont is one of only three states in America that allows anyone to carry concealed weapons without a permit. The other two states are Alaska and Arizona.

Additionally, Vermont is one of few states in the nation that allow citizens younger than the age of 21 to carry. In Vermont, anyone age 16 or older can carry handguns openly or concealed. For youths under the age of 16, parental consent is needed before a handgun can be carried."


All those gun-toting, trailer trash redneck Bernie voters! Go tell them how selfish they are, Ritmo!

Drago said...

It does seem that not only does R&B wish to provide more opportunities for muslim terrorists to freely enter our nation while disarming the rest of us, he also seems to project the sort of self-loathing gay-baiting rage that one could argue is reminiscent of certain actors in certain very recent events.

Rusty said...

It's more easier to take away rights from gun owners

That's not gun owners rights. That is the inherent right of every citizen in the country.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Dipshit?

Yeah- they are here. We DON'T WANT ANY MORE. Their religion is fucked up.

Drago said...

R&B: "Americans don't trust their security with the likes of you."

So that's why I've never been elected President!

Well, given that Americans don't trust their security with the likes of me, it's small wonder.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

It is funny to hear the President refer reverentially to the Bill of Rights simultaneous with many of his political allies thunder about how the 2nd Amend is garbage and should not be respected.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Yeah- they are here. We DON'T WANT ANY MORE. Their religion is fucked up.

NOT THE ISSUE.

The issue is that they're buying more and more guns every day. You likey?

Drago does.

But that's ok. He said the ACLU told him it's all right.

Drago said...

I took R&B's comment that "Americans don't trust their security with the likes of you." to heart and I went out and, utilizing Survey Monkey, created a survey for "Americans" to test that theory.

Well, I am happy to tell you that the results were very encouraging from my point of view.

Only 37% of survey takers thought I was too untrustworthy to handle the security of America, but 79% of those voters also voted Jeremy Piven as the most handsome man in the world while 17% of that group voted Scarlett Johansson as the most handsome man in the world.

I admit, the results are somewhat confusing.

I will leave it to Laslo Spatula to sort it out.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Oh Dear. All those massacres in Vermont and Alaska.

Bernie's NRA rating was a D-, but Hillary's was an F.

Apparently there is room for less black-and-white on this, no matter how few shades of gray there are in your own sado-masochistic world.

Lewis Wetzel said...

If only there were some way to change the constitution! A vote, or maybe by an act of congress!
Curse you, Bill of Rights, curse you!

Drago said...

R&B: "He said the ACLU told him it's all right."

The ACLU is wrong, wrong, WRONG he shouted at the heavens!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

To paraphrase a catchphrase,

I get the feeling that Drago etc., would say that if we don't allow guns for terrorists, then only terrorists will have guns.

Which puts a guy like him in a precarious situation, when it comes to how he feels about both terrorists and guns.

It's almost like a parent having to choose between their two favorite children.

Drago said...

R&B: "Apparently there is room for less black-and-white on this, no matter how few shades of gray there are in your own sado-masochistic world."

R&B descent continues apace.

Sprezzatura said...

What's the best, not too bulky concealable gun?

I don't know anything about guns (but, almost everyone I associate w/ has plenty of guns). Every now and then I think about leaning to shoot and having the ability to pack, even though I doubt I ever would.

So far folks in these threads have suggested a version of a police special revolver or a 38.

I'd want something w good accuracy (for something small), not tons of kick. And, even though it's sort of lame of me, I want something expensive and exclusive. Two or three grand is good.

Drago said...

We've reached the point in the political season where R&B has the right wing protecting terrorists and PBandJ putting Obama's "ISIS is the JV team" words in the mouths of republican legislators.

If one didn't know better, one would guess the left feels like they are on shaky ground politically.

Not to worry, it's nothing that can't be "fixed" by getting louder and more incoherent!

Known Unknown said...

I don't think R&B is holding up the "good faith" standard of the Althouse comment section.

Drago said...

PBandJ: "What's the best, not too bulky concealable gun?"

Your question reminds me of the old joke: Who is the best spy who ever lived? Ans: We'll never know.

Drago said...

EMD: "I don't think R&B is holding up the "good faith" standard of the Althouse comment section."

Well, if by "good faith" you mean "to thine ownself be true", perhaps he is.

But I warn you, whatever you do, don't agree with the ACLU! That apparently is now verboten!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I don't think R&B is holding up the "good faith" standard of the Althouse comment section.

That's right!

I just hooked up my polygraph, and it said I'm lying!

We know how accurate those things are. Even a no-fly list is less error-prone.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Blogger Rhythm and Balls said...
At 9:09 a comment was posted that was as incomprehensibly stupid as the worst cyber spam ever received in history.

Ah, no, i'M afraid the one you posted at 9:05 wins the Bozo Prize.

"Although it's possible that Bill's slightly more cultured than your "mangina?" boyfriend. I am sure that once he is done putting everyone who's met him to sleep he will have figured you out, moved on, and left you to skank onto the next male symbol of whatever status you never felt that you actually had within yourself."

You're hilariously confused. Why, make up your mind, darling! Either I'm 'roided and have hairy underarms (is that SCIENCE, ritmo?) and live in a trailer park or I'm hanging around with an anesthesiologist, not because I'm a professional myself, but because of some sort of self esteem issue. whatevs, dear. I know you're a pharmacist or med tech or RN orderly or something, which is fine, but the jealousy and hatred you have displayed tonight and in the past of those who outrank you in the medical hierarchy is really quite petty.

I'm sure you don't have to worry in the slightest about anybody dating you to obtain status, that's for damned sure.

harrogate said...

Almost 300 comments. Such an easy button to push, isn't it Dr.?

Glad to help get it close to 300!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Drago:

Do you ever give longer than one minute to respond to a comment?

How about letting that comment swirl around and marinate in your very productive brain for a few seconds or so, first?

Do you find that impulsivity is an asset in your own life? Personal life? Professional life?

I know every group I ever hang out in or contribute to is definitely looking for people who verbally pop off first, and ask questions later. Or never, as is your case.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

...the medical hierarchy is really quite petty.

Yes, I know it is. And anyone who puts any stock in it (as you appear to) is dumb enough to die of iatrogenic causes.

I'm sure you don't have to worry in the slightest about anybody dating you to obtain status, that's for damned sure.

Certainty is certainly doing you no favors tonight. And I doubt that any honesty would, either.

So what is it that you do you do for a living, other than being a self-righteous, but paradoxically idiotic know-it-all?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"If one didn't know better, one would guess the left feels like they are on shaky ground politically.

Not to worry, it's nothing that can't be "fixed" by getting louder and more incoherent!"

One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at R & B's meltdown in this thread.

The subject itself is completely serious, but he's so ridiculously over the top. I've been away from this blog for quite some time, I had forgotten what a silly, shrill little beta he is.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

...what a silly, shrill little beta he is.

"REAL MEN HATE TRUTH, HONESTY and FACTS."

"They are troglodytes that shower me with the glory of having momentarily stumbled into the next prize to bed in my never-ending status search, until they dump me and my gold-digging ways on my ass like the last one! But I sure do love the temporary ego trip it provides!"

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"I'd want something w good accuracy (for something small), not tons of kick. And, even though it's sort of lame of me, I want something expensive and exclusive. Two or three grand is good."

I'd recommend a Glock but they're not exclusive enough for you. Maybe you can get them to gold plate one for you or something, so you can feel all special.

Drago said...

R&B:"Do you ever give longer than one minute to respond to a comment?"

Has R&B ever written a comment that deserved longer than 1 minute to contemplate?

To ask the question is to answer it.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Y'know, if they really had a 'department of Pre-Crime' that could deny people a firearm license based on their belonging to certain 'dangerous' groups, young Black men would lose out (tendency to commit gun crimes), male homosexuals would lose out (depression, drug and alcohol abuse, suicide) and cops would lose out (depression, drug and alcohol abuse, suicide). Middle-aged white guys, East Asians, Jews, and women would be the only people permitted to own a gun.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Has R&B ever written a comment that deserved longer than 1 minute to contemplate?

Right. Define what it means for you to contemplate something.

You don't even know the meaning of the word. Or you did once, until your perpetually jerking knee kicked it out of your grasp...

Michael K said...

Feeding trolls makes long threads but so do spinning wheels.

There was one question that I might have answered about guns but not in this crowd.

Drago said...

R&B: "Right. Define what it means for you to contemplate something."

That would serve no purpose. I could define it for you but no one else can comprehend it for you. Thus we are at an impasse.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Maybe you can get them to gold plate one for you or something, so you can feel all special.

And if anyone knows how to feel special, it's exiledonmainstreet. Every two or three months or so she finds someone just exclusive enough to make her forget how un-special the last one made her feel after he made her realize that his balls were not hers.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

I've been watching Yukon Men, one of the few reality programs that are actually tolerable. It's about families living in the village of Tanana, Alaska. This is a country that is home to wolves, moose, grizzly bears and sundry other bad-tempered animals. One young man there carries an AR in .223 almost exclusively. It doesn't seem like enough gun to me, but he seems comfortable with it. I imagine mass murder hardly ever enters his thoughts.

Sprezzatura said...

"I'd recommend a Glock but they're not exclusive enough for you. Maybe you can get them to gold plate one for you or something, so you can feel all special."

I already stated that I know it's lame that I care about that.

As best as I can tell a hopped up Five-Seven would be good for me, but they're too big.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Thus we are at an impasse.

I see you learned a special word for the mental constipation you're feeling. It's always good to try for variety.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

There was one question that I might have answered about guns but not in this crowd.

Maybe once you shoot away their cerebral cortices then they could be a more relatable crowd for you to interact with.

cubanbob said...

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
"He needs to say "radical Islam" to distinguish the enemy from non-radicalized Muslim-Americans."

He already says that these are Perverted Muslims, what exactly is better by calling them Radical Muslims?

6/14/16, 7:59 PM

Radical Muslims consider Obama a Perverted Muslim. Our Perv Muzzie In Chief is fancies himself an imam with his pseudo fatwas.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

R & B, you're a hoot! Really, thank you, you have kept me so entertained tonight.

"REAL MEN HATE TRUTH, HONESTY and FACTS."

No,betas like you have but a slight acquaintance with truth, honesty and facts, as just every single reply you've made to everyone in this thread shows.

Earlier this evening, you beclowned yourself with this lie:"Even among gun owners the NRA's favorability is about as low as Hillary Clinton's and Donald Trump's. Totally in the gutter"

In response I posted this:

"A day before President Barack Obama is scheduled to release Vice President Joe Biden's recommendations to curb gun violence in the United States, the National Rifle Association told U.S. News and World Report that they have seen membership grow by 250,000 in the month since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/01/15/nra-membership-has-grown-by-250000-in-one-month


Obama has been the best gun salesman ever, the man who inspired thousands to join the NRA.

That is the truth.

Aaaaand that's when you got pissy with me. Sadly for you I am happy to dish it right back to you.

Now, go think of some other cliche you can toss at me. The ones you've come up with are really hilarious.

narciso said...

yes, it's like the argument clinic, but he comes for the abuse,

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/220432/irs-employing-cair-analyst-who-tipped-al-awlaki-daniel-greenfield

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Weren't you Lefties the ones who made such fun of GWBush saying "you're either with us of against us" way back when?
Is that not EXACTLY what you are doing now, on this issue?
Hell, it is worse--dumb ol' GDub was talking about foreign nations/governments...you are talking about fellow American citizens!
To the Left, you either fully agree with them about guns, or you are with the terrorists. That's what you are saying, right fellas? That's the strong subtrext to what the current President is saying, yeah?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Blogger PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
"I'd recommend a Glock but they're not exclusive enough for you. Maybe you can get them to gold plate one for you or something, so you can feel all special."

I already stated that I know it's lame that I care about that.

Without snark - I really do like Glocks. Their recoil is not bad and they fit comfortably in my hand.

What you really have to go is go to a range and try out a number of pistols. Nobody can tell you what to buy. You have to try them out and find what feels right for you.

Sprezzatura said...

"What you really have to go is go to a range and try out a number of pistols."

Then I'll add to your NRA stats. The closest range to where I mostly live requires an NRA membership. I don't know if they get some sort of insurance policy from the NRA, or maybe they just want more NRAers.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Oh wow. One error. The NRA's popularity has indeed gone up after those legions of paranoid anti-Obamaites got scared and went on massive gun purchasing sprees. That's right. Not sure if the organization's once unpopular stances have followed, but as for the organization itself, it's true.

But how difficult it must be for me to accept this fallibility. Why, now I know I'll never be as perfect as the next guy you fantasize about bedding down before your 90-day shelf life expiration causes the current beau to sour on you, causing the pattern to repeat itself yet again.

Tragic, I know. Chasing perfection must be such a burden for you.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

PBandJ_LeDouanier said...
What's the best, not too bulky concealable gun?


Here's the gun for you

Small, clean, high quality, manageable recoil, and an almost adequate caliber.

Plus, James Bond had one.

Lewis Wetzel said...

I just joined the NRA!
It's cool. For forty bucks you get a year's membership, a tote bag for your bang-bang, and a magazine subscription!

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

*raises hand* I bought my first gun during the Obama era.
A lefty pal of mine who doesn't trust the government inspired me.

Cool huh?

Lewis Wetzel said...

So, R&B, are you an insecure, knuckle-dragging wannabe Rambo if your only gun is a pellet gun? Those things leave a mark. Could put your eye out.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...


"Then I'll add to your NRA stats. The closest range to where I mostly live requires an NRA membership. I don't know if they get some sort of insurance policy from the NRA, or maybe they just want more NRAers."

The ones here don't require NRA membership. I don't know what else to tell you. Some gun stores may have ranges, but I still think (and was advised) that you really have to try different models for a while before purchasing one, particularly if you have never owned a firearm before. Of course, some will feel too cumbersome and "not right" the second you pick them up - you don't have to fire them to know that.

Sprezzatura said...

T.S.

I've thought about a modified Walther, though less tacky that the particular one you linked to. But, they seem to have a lot of variations. It sounds like you're saying the ppk 380 is a good choice.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I just joined the NRA!
It's cool. For forty bucks you get a year's membership, a tote bag for your bang-bang, and a magazine subscription!


Highlights Magazine?

Is there a secret decoder ring in the bag, also?

What a bargain. Your proud mommy will probably require half as many chores from you for the loan you took out on such a wise purchase.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

*raises hand* I bought my first gun during the Obama era.
A lefty pal of mine who doesn't trust the government inspired me.


This is rather like saying that a lefty friend inspired you to get on a mailing list for 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Blogger AprilApple said...
*raises hand* I bought my first gun during the Obama era.

6/14/16, 10:25 PM

So did I. I've never joined the NRA, but R & B is inspiring me...

JAORE said...

PB&J, Ask 25 gun owners what is the best ____ and you'll get 75 answers. But here is my quick screening.

I like wheel guns (revolvers) but they are "thicker" than a semi auto so can make concealment a bit rough. Caliber is important. I was raised on the "big hole theory" i.e. "Why do you carry a .45?" "Because they don't make a .50". (They do now.

But a .45 tends to be big and kicks pretty hard. A .380 can be very small and recoil is minor. But I want more thump. So I'll recommend a 9mm.

From there you have a LOT of choices. There are full size, compact and subcompact 9s. I'd go with compact for you. Concealable but with enough heft to tame recoil. I'm assuming from your post that you are inexperienced with guns. You have a fair amount of searching to do. Single stack (one row of cartridges) versus double stack. Single action/double action trigger, polymer frames vs stainless vs blue vs all kinds of coatings. Sights, laser pointers, holsters and much more. It can be intimidating or like looking at a Toys-R-Us catalog....

Personal bias - I like Sig Sauer. Sigs are very good and have some cache about them. I love my Sig 290RS but it's a sub-compact. The 226 has use by elite squads going for it like Seals. Larger capacity magazine, longer sight radius, etc.

Most of the guns well below your price point are good.

But here are the key factors. Get some training. And spend time at a range. Best of luck.

Sprezzatura said...

Exile,

I don't mind joining. I'll also mellow out the political impact of my NRA membership by throwing some dough at the thing Petraeus and Kelly are starting.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"Your proud mommy will probably require half as many chores from you for the loan you took out on such a wise purchase."
You're not going to tell my mom about this, are you, R&B? I mean, I am a grown up -- I have to shave at least once a week and I don't need my brother to buy beer for me anymore -- but I wouldn't want her to worry. So don't say anything to her.
Promise?

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

So did I. I've never joined the NRA, but R & B is inspiring me...

Joining a huge herd of followers in the hopes of pissing off someone you can't agree with is definitely what an "alpha's" girlfriend would do. Definitely.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

It is my constitutional obligation to take part in the 2nd amendment. I have an obligation and a right to protect myself.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

No, you have a right to do that. But you have no obligation to let paranoia run your daily life and neither does anyone else.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Rhythm and Balls said...
So did I. I've never joined the NRA, but R & B is inspiring me...

Joining a huge herd of followers in the hopes of pissing off someone you can't agree with is definitely what an "alpha's" girlfriend would do. Definitely.


You remind me that there are plenty of shits like you who want to take my right to self defense away. So, yeah, joining the NRA is a great big fuck you to you and yours.

Lewis Wetzel said...

The dumbest gun I ever bought was a Ruger .44 magnum 'sportsman'. That was about twenty years ago. I bought it from an Alaskan guy who took it when he went river fishing. Bears like fish.
It was way to much gun. Not only were the bullets too expensive, it was physically painful to shoot it without hearing protection. Jesus.
So I sold it. I think. To tell you the truth, I can't remember what I did with it. I think that I traded it to this skinhead biker for a 1911, but I really can't remember.
I don't remember what happened to the 1911, either. The house got burgled about five years ago, and I think the burglars got the gun, but I hadn't had the thing out of its case in a decade and I couldn't remember where I stashed it. Maybe it will turn up.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Actually, April, it's a bit pathetic that this is the best response you have to the problem of making guns available to terrorists. It's like, at first you actually got the point. But then you thought, "Maybe I'm a potential terrorist, too."

You know those rallies where people would say things like,"I am Charlie?"

April and friends here are basically saying, "We are Omar Mateen."

How courageous.

JAORE said...

Good advice about the range. The closest to me has a WIDE variety of guns you can try for a small fee. Ask questions, ask for instruction. Most places LOVE new guys. Always glad to add another friend to the sport.

Oddly, though I have a cousin in a high position in the NRA, I'm not a member. Might have to remedy that based on the posts here and the MSM reporting on guns.

If you were near me I'd carry a sack full for you to try. Between mine, friends and family I can access quite a few.

I like the Walther PP, but I do recommend a bit more than the .380. Lots of good Walther 9's. Don't have one, never tried one, but some of the Kimber pistols catch my eye. Last time I looked they were north of $1,000.

Good luck. Have fun.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

You remind me that there are plenty of shits like you who want to take my right to self defense away. So, yeah, joining the NRA is a great big fuck you to you and yours.

You're a fucking moron and I hope the next time you get dumped you learn less than the last time.

No one gives a shit about you and your stupid gun - and neither does the Charlton Heston and the NRA. Or "alpha" "Wayne LaPierre" - the worst name a male was ever so unfortunate to have. As has been made abundantly clear, it's about terrorists on the no fly list being given the "defense" of a right to own guns.

But of course, if you can't see the difference between them and yourself, then who am I to argue? But I do suggest you turn yourself in to DHS or the FBI as soon as you're ready to let the whole world know in clear language what you're only able to intimate to me in political double-speak.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"that this is the best response you have to the problem of making guns available to terrorists"
He wasn't a terrorist when he bought the gun, dimwit.

JackWayne said...

R& B The Troll, sorry I'm late to the party but here an important clue for you: in the Federalist Papers, Hamilton and Madison argued strenuously for a Standing Army. The Anti-Federalists argued that in every country up to that time that a SA always ended in the subjugation of the citizens and their loss of freedom when the SA decided they wanted to be in charge. Hamilton and Madison answered this argument by agreeing and proposing the difference would be that the American citizens would have weapons and could fight back against the SA. Go educate yourself. The argument is easy to find as it is in about 5 Papers as I recall.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Thanks, Jack Wayne. Love that name.

Have you ever thought about adding "LaPierre" to the end of it? It might sound more manly that way.

Drago said...

R&B: "Actually, April, it's a bit pathetic that this is the best response you have to the problem of making guns available to terrorists."

Well here is a an interesting blast from the very recent past: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?_r=0

Yes, Obama and Hillary provided weapons to terrorists.

But you know, the "good terrorists", and only the "good weapons".

The narrative hardest hit.

In other fantastic news, the Saudi's have basically funded Hillary's run. Not that there's a conflict of interest there. Not at all. Someone has to pony up the cash to get Bill Clinton to Pedophile Island.

JackWayne said...

R&B The Troll, thanks for confirming your inability to discuss like an adult.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Did you know the NRA awards money to kids who shoot guns and love their constitutional rights? They do!

Brownells/NRA Outstanding Achievement Youth Award
The Brownells/NRA Outstanding Achievement Youth Award recognizes juniors and young adults who take an active part in the shooting sports through individual participation and educational pursuits. By meeting the requirements to be eligible for the award, youth gain a greater sense of responsibility and an appreciation for the variety of shooting sports opportunities available. awards.jpgRequirements: All shooting sports enthusiasts through the year of their 21st birthday are eligible to receive the award once they have completed six core requirements and at least five elective requirements. Core Requirements (All six required)
Eligible through the year of your 21st birthday.Attend and complete one NRA Basic Firearm Training Course.Participate in the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program by earning a rating in one discipline.Attach an essay of no more than 1,000 words; the subject of the essay is "What the Shooting Sports has Taught Me," describing why you began to participate in the shooting sports, the lessons learned and how you use these lessons in your everyday life.Three letters of reference, including one from your coach, and one from a teacher.A copy of your current school transcript.Elective Requirements (you must complete a minimum of five)
Earn an NRA Classification Card by competing in an NRA-sanctioned competitive shooting event.Present the Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program to a group of elementary school-age children between pre-Kindergarten and third grade.Attend and complete an additional NRA Basic Firearm Training Course.Earn an additional rating in the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program.Compete in an NRA-sanctioned Sectional, Regional, or State Championship.Participate in an NRA Postal Match.Attend or volunteer at an NRA Shooting Sports Camp.Attend or volunteer at a Friends of NRA event.Attend the NRA Annual Meeting.Attend an NRA Youth Hunter Education Challenge event.Enter a submission for the NRA Youth Wildlife Art Contest.Be a current member of a local shooting club or team.Participate in a summer camp shooting program.Assist in a wildlife conservation, ECHO, or Hunters for the Hungry program.Complete a state-sponsored hunter education course.Participate in a shooting or hunting clinic.Participate or serve as a volunteer at an NRA national shooting sports event.Participate in a Boy Scout, Venturing, Law Enforcement Explorer, 4-H, FFA, DeMolay, American Legion, Jaycee, JROTC, or other recognized youth shooting program.Visit the National Firearms Museum or another museum which features firearm displays.Awards:Once a participant meets the requirements, he or she will receive the official NRA Youth Award Certificate and Medal recognizing the accomplishment and will also be eligible for our National prizes. Thanks to Brownell's contribution, our National award winners will receive:
1st place - $5,000 2nd place - $3,000 3rd place - $2,000

Drago said...

Jack Wayne: "R&B The Troll, thanks for confirming your inability to discuss like an adult."

You must be new here.

R&B is well into the late hours of another medication-laced evening.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

And thanks Jack Wayne LaPierre the early man, for confirming your inability to figure out what year it is.

ANyway, for shit's and giggles, check out mainstreet's idea of a real man.

Word among the membership is that his shooting is scary inaccurate. Kind of like the inability of the terrorist supporting right-wing crowd here to come up with a coherent thought.

Anonymous said...

Once again for you slow learners ..,Communism is a religion disguised as a political system. Islamis a political system disguised as a religion.

Michael K said...

"
Here's the gun for you

Small, clean, high quality, manageable recoil, and an almost adequate caliber."

The PPK is kind of small for my hands. The slide rubs the web space between thumb and index finger. If I shoot 100 rounds, it gets chafed. It is just right for my grandson and my wife has fired it.

I like the Colt .45 1911. I had a 9mm Beretta but gave it to my son. I can't hit anything with it. I shoot the .45 better.

The .380 will probably not do much more than a .22 but it is small. The .45 will knock someone down. I keep it in the bedside stand.

The AR 15 is under the bed in the next room. I have 1000 rounds for each in a closet.

I'm hoping for a Garand M1 for Christmas. Traditional. We used an M1 carbine when I was in the Air Force but that is a pussy gun,

Sprezzatura said...

It break the budget a bit, but does anyone think a Wilson compact w/ the 9 mm caliber is worth the dough?

Lewis Wetzel said...

R&B posts comments about people getting shot. His gravatar is an image of a lot of guys pointing rifles at a person.
Just sayin'.

JackWayne said...

Drago, R&B The Troll is well-known to me. It's interesting that when he is presented with a factual argument for the genesis of the 2nd, that he resorts to childish name-calling and deflection to avoid even thinking about the basis of our Social Contract which we have named the Constitution. It's easy to forget that compromises were made in the beginning to get the agreement of the majority of Americans so we could form our government. Idiots like R&B The Troll who believe the Con is only a 100 years old or something expose themselves pretty quickly when confronted with the facile stupidity of their arguments.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Check out the honorability of April, mainstreet and Terry's new leader:

In 1995, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms".[8] Former president George H. W. Bush was so outraged by the letter that he resigned his NRA life membership.[9] In response to growing criticism, LaPierre apologized, saying he didn't intend to "paint all federal law-enforcement officials with the same broad brush".[10]

In 2000, LaPierre said President Bill Clinton tolerated a certain amount of violence and killing to strengthen the case for gun control and to score points for his party.[11] Clinton White House spokesman Joe Lockhart called it "really sick rhetoric, and it should be repudiated by anyone who hears it".


Great stuff. Pretty honorable guy. Very decent, charming human being who really cares so much about your personal rights - as he seeks the proliferation of things that you're twice as likely to kill yourself with as you are another person.

I'll leave it to others to ponder what that says about themselves.

Even though pondering isn't apparently as fun as shooting first, asking questions later. Or never.

Just like we've taught our police to do.

That's one hell of a free state, for you.

But at least the terrorists get away with it, too. Which to the nut jobs here, is the important thing.

You are all insane.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Drago said...


R&B is well into the late hours of another medication-laced evening.

6/14/16, 10:56 PM

I'll have to ask my anesthesiologist boyfriend what recreational drugs create such hysteria and incoherent, delusional ranting. I'm starting to feel a bit guilty for laughing at him all night.

I certainly am glad that R & B doesn't own a gun. He's clearly too unstable for such a responsibility.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Drago, R&B The Troll is well-known to me. It's interesting that when he is presented with a factual argument for the genesis of the 2nd, that he resorts to childish name-calling and deflection to avoid even thinking about the basis of our Social Contract which we have named the Constitution. It's easy to forget that compromises were made in the beginning to get the agreement of the majority of Americans so we could form our government. Idiots like R&B The Troll who believe the Con is only a 100 years old or something expose themselves pretty quickly when confronted with the facile stupidity of their arguments.

Blah blah blah I'm Jack Wayne LaPierre and I have no defense for my support of putting firearms into the hands of as many terrorists as can get them. QED.

narciso said...

for a lone wolf, they seem real inspired by him,


https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/06/14/isis-praises-mateen-as-lion-of-caliphate-urges-attacks-at-theaters-hospitals-amusement-parks/

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I'll have to ask my anesthesiologist boyfriend what recreational drugs create such hysteria and incoherent, delusional ranting. I'm starting to feel a bit guilty for laughing at him all night.

Right. Make sure to ask him what you should think of Congress preventing medical research into handgun violence, also.

I certainly am glad that R & B doesn't own a gun. He's clearly too unstable for such a responsibility.

Says the wacko whose most offended and attacked! priority here is her insistence that terrorists on the no fly list should have just as many gun rights as she has!

Drago said...

exiled: "I certainly am glad that R & B doesn't own a gun. He's clearly too unstable for such a responsibility."

It might very well be that he has been placed on a list of unstable individuals who cannot purchase a weapon and thus feels quite antagonistic towards those who retain the right to acquire weapons for their own protection.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It might very well be that he has been placed on a list of unstable individuals who cannot purchase a weapon and thus feels quite antagonistic towards those who retain the right to acquire weapons for their own protection.

Are you even capable of saying anything that you actually have the balls to stand behind?

Keep focusing on me. Get your minds off the dozens of kids you helped kill.

Drago said...

R&B: "Make sure to ask him what you should think of Congress preventing medical research into handgun violence, also."

Maybe for this reason, amongst others:

http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

"Why Most Published Research Findings Are False"

Inga said...

"You are all insane."

R&B,
I concluded that way upthread after Traditional Guy saw the Muslim Devil in Obama's eyes. Stark raving mad.

Drago said...

Here's an instant "research" classic:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ajps.12216/epdf

"The authors regret that there is an error in the published
version of “Correlation not Causation: The Relationship
between Personality Traits and Political Ideologies” Amer-
ican Journal of Political Science 56 (1), 34–51. The inter-
pretation of the coding of the political attitude items in
the descriptive and preliminary analyses portion of the
manuscript was exactly reversed. Thus, where we indi-
cated that higher scores in Table 1 (page 40) reflect a more
conservative response, they actually reflect a more liberal
response."

Ouch.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Maybe for this reason, amongst others:

Right. So ban all science. Or at least the science about your most favorite topic.

Hopefully the article itself wasn't what anyone could call "science." Then the finding itself would probably be false.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I concluded that way upthread after Traditional Guy saw the Muslim Devil in Obama's eyes. Stark raving mad.

Such are the vicissitudes of a self-constructed reality.

Lewis Carroll did a much better job of this stuff than they ever could.

Drago said...

Miriam: "You are all insane."

Lefties declaring political opponents insane.

Well, we've seen that before, haven't we?

"Political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union

Everything old is new again on the left! Good times, good times.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Keep focusing on me. Get your minds off the dozens of kids you helped kill.

6/14/16, 11:13 PM

Does he work at Planned Parenthood?

eddie willers said...

348 replies?!

Holy Allah! I'll have to read this tomorrow and then bury a snark somewhere near the bottom.

So Ann, what's your record on replies? (as if I expect you to get this far to read this)

Drago said...

R&B: "So ban all science."

So there you have it. Refusing to fund leftist fake "research" designed to deliver a leftist political result is the same as banning all science!

Yes, of course it is!!

That's why there has been no "science" since the evil republicans refused to fund fake lefty "research".

#leftylogic

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Drago said...
R&B: "So ban all science."

So there you have it. Refusing to fund leftist fake "research" designed to deliver a leftist political result is the same as banning all science!

Yes, of course it is!!

__________

Don't you just love the subtlety and nuance of Ritmo's mind?

Drago said...

exiledonmainstreet: "Does he work at Planned Parenthood?"

It's not fair bringing up the liberal sacrament of abortion and scavenging of baby body parts.

Nor is it appropriate to speak of islamic supremacists.

We must continue focusing on the true evil here: republicans.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's the CDC, right? You dumb fuckers.

Just fail after fail after fail after fail.

Left-wing malaria, left-wing osteoporosis, left-wing, left-wing. Made-up stuff.

Drago's the one who submitted, as his own reason for de-funding research, a title, a single title, "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False".

Sounds pretty generic and non-partisan and anti-science generally to me.

You monkeys can continue chasing your own tails and forgetting your own points better than anyone else. All these challenges do is confuse you further.

Just stick to your main rallying cry: Keeping gun rights for terrorism suspects intact.

You don't need me for this.

Enjoy your sense of identification with Omar Mateen.

Fuck off and die. Good night. And don't let your likely method of suicide prevent you from reveling in your paranoia of attack today.

I hate all of you. You're bad for America and a disgrace to the minds of its founders. They were abundantly anti-terrorism but you guys seem to love it enough to collude with it so as to expand a right beyond all reason.

buwaya said...

I love the M1 carbine.
When I retire and go someplace where I can shoot something, thats what I'm getting. And assuming I am still ambulatory at that time I will make a point to carry it over the hills and far away, because thats what its for. It will be like winning it, the prize, vs the Garands, but if you own it you win everyday.
The pistol that I liked shooting the most, because it fit me so well, is an oddball - the .32 Ruby, godfather had one. Weird but its so. I have been really truly tempted at gun shows. It just fits and points for me, and is comfy like an old shoe. Big-ish and heavy for a .32 but that works too, not a cramped little thing like a PPK. That would count for something I guess, if you had to shoot someone, a little less anxiety.
And there is the one gun I still own, left on the other side of the Pacific, on permanent loan, dads old Detective Special. That is a special thing indeed, because it was dads, and he taught me to shoot it. I guess I pine for it. Not so good for hitting anything very far away, but how often does that happen?
These are the sorts of sentiments and odd whims that weapons bring.

grackle said...

I know it's inconvenient when cons get all worked up about nothing happening after the red line, but it is a fact that Rs in Congress refused to authorize force when BHO asked for after the red line crossing.

Maybe some members of Congress had misgivings about authorizing a war that Obama’s Secretary of Defense described below:

"We will be able to hold Bashar Assad accountable without engaging in troops on the ground, or any other prolonged kind of effort, in a very limited, very targeted, very short-term effort," Kerry said. He further emphasized that it would be an "unbelievably small, limited kind of effort."

"We're not talking about war. We're not going to war," Kerry said. "We will not have people at risk in that way."


http://tinyurl.com/pzvrhx2

One of the few things Congress has done right is refusing to dignify the pathetic, totally cosmetic gesture of Obama’s plan to drop a few bombs with an equally pointless “declaration of war.”

Drago said...

R&B: "You don't need me for this."

Or anything, really. Which would make us exactly like....everyone else.

JackWayne said...

"I hate all of you. You're bad for America and a disgrace to the minds of its founders. They were abundantly anti-terrorism but you guys seem to love it enough to collude with it so as to expand a right beyond all reason."

And yet, somehow this doesn't fall foul of the disclaimer about comments.

Drago said...

R&B: "I hate all of you. You're bad for America and a disgrace to the minds of its founders."

The left hates the founders and western civilization.

But the left loves unrestricted muslim immigration from countries that that are rife with Islamic supremacism.

You may draw your own conclusions.

R&B: "And don't let your likely method of suicide prevent you from reveling in your paranoia of attack today."

I wonder if gays feel any sense of paranoia of attack. Wouldn't they be justified if they did? After all, Hillary's Saudi-funded position is to let as many of these murderers in as possible, and that should give everyone pause.

Drago said...

Jack Wayne: "And yet, somehow this doesn't fall foul of the disclaimer about comments."

Nor should it.

This is who the left is. As if we didn't already know.

Note: R&B does not "hate" Islamic mass murderers. He only hates republicans/conservatives.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...


"I hate all of you."

Wow! I never would have guessed!

Again, I'm glad you don't own a gun. You certainly couldn't handle it and would be a danger to yourself and others.

" You're bad for America and a disgrace to the minds of its founders."

The founders? You mean the ones who approved the 2nd Amendment as a means of preventing governmental tyranny? Those gun-totin' dudes?

effinayright said...


"President Obama's Sermon of 2 Perversions."

*****************

The third perversion is Barak's conflict between his own unacknowledged homosexuality and Islam.

Reggie Love, where are you.....?

While he wrestles with HIS demons, all Americans are at risk.

Aren't you PROUD, Althouse, that you voted for this twisted piece of dreck, TWICE???

MeatPopscicle1234 said...

Blogger Rae said...
Our president is never more animated than when he criticizes his fellow countrymen.


Or when he's charging in to defend Islam's good name against the slur's of those evil Rethuglican's. I don't think he's even trying to hide it anymore. Barack Obama is our first Muslim President... if you accept that as true, then everything he has done so far makes total sense.

effinayright said...

R & B raged:

"I hate all of you."

***************

Step away from the alcohol dispenser! STEP AWAY FROM THE ALCOHOL DISPENSER!!!

Lewis Wetzel said...

In 1995, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms.
That was meant as a compliment. Obviously.
A straightforward translation if 'LaPierre" is 'the Rock'.

cubanbob said...

wholelottasplainin' said...

"President Obama's Sermon of 2 Perversions."

*****************

The third perversion is Barak's conflict between his own unacknowledged homosexuality and Islam.

Reggie Love, where are you.....?

While he wrestles with HIS demons, all Americans are at risk.

Aren't you PROUD, Althouse, that you voted for this twisted piece of dreck, TWICE???

6/14/16, 11:55 PM"

Don't be nasty. She only voted for him once. A lot of people made that mistake. However being devoid of any sense of wonder I saw through the faux pillars and passed on the One. The true test is whether after four years came to their senses and our hostess did. Whether or not she will stay focused in reality instead of icons and totems remains to be see although to be fair Trump doesn't always make the choice so easy to those who are still susceptible to the charms of icons. Being the cynical realist that I am, I'll be voting for His Orangeness since I always prefer bad to worst.

cubanbob said...

wholelottasplainin' said...
R & B raged:

"I hate all of you."

***************

Step away from the alcohol dispenser! STEP AWAY FROM THE ALCOHOL DISPENSER!!!

6/14/16, 11:57 PM"

Now,now don't be nasty. How do you know the PEZ dispenser wasn't spiked?

Lewis Wetzel said...

That skinhead biker I traded the .44 Ruger sportsman to was kind of a funny fellow. He had some kind of drill press machine in back of his shop and he made silencers and sold them to other skinheads. He showed me that they really weren't all that quiet -- they weren't like the silencers they showed on TV shows like The Man From Uncle -- by fitting one on the end of a .22 automatic and firing off a half dozen rounds into a waste basket. His neighbors thought he had gone berserk and killed his family so they called the cops. Hilarity ensued!
This other time I went down to his chop shop to ask about getting a points booster for my Skirtster and he wanted to show me this ancient .38 Mexican Police revolver he traded a gram of coke for. God it was awful. The blueing was all gone and when he broke it open the cylinder fell out and all the bullets started rolling around on the floor. Still holding onto the now cylinderless gun, he started grabbing at the bullets when the local cop walked in to bust him for burning off Zep degreaser in a trash can instead of paying to dispose of it properly. Hilarity ensued!

shiloh said...

375 and yes AA knows how to push buttons or as I like to say ~ ODS minutiae.

james conrad said...

Obama is a moron who believes his own bullshit, he musta got in the kool-aid line at least twice, maybe 3 times! The real problem with not being honest or accurate in describing your enemy is, it filters down into the entire administration. Words are banned, truth is suppressed, rules of engagement are designed to fight a war in a courtroom, bla bla bla. Isn't Obama the guy who said the "war on terror" is over? He thinks he can end a war with a speech?
The FBI connected the dots on this Omar guy but were forced to drop the case because he did not meet DOJ guidelines, this is INSANE!

Bruce Hayden said...

From yesterday a couple times:

Imagine being restricted to owning a 1960 vintage automobile because fewer people were being killed by cars then. Of course, if that were true, the reason would be a much smaller population and not the actual death rate. Any time you hear people trying to ban AR type firearms, that is exactly what they are trying to do - restrict rifles and carbines to 1960 or earlier technology. And, obviously, phrased like that, it is never a reasonable limitation on the right to keep and bear arms. The current result of 60 years of technology is a highly modular and customizable firearm that is ergonomic, accurate, and has low recoil. It is comparatively much easier for novices to shoot accurately. Much of that is because technology continues to evolve, and ARs are the primary platform in rifles and carbines where the advances are implemented. The part that has the serial number is the lower receiver. Everything else can be, and often is, switched out. An AR may start one day at the std .223 caliber, be switched out to .17 the next, and .50 BMG (suboptimal because rounds that big require side feed) the next. Maybe a shorter carbine barrel one day, and a longer rifle barrel the next. Different shrouds. Iron sights one day, red dot the next, and telescopic the next. Foldable stock one day, solid the next. The only part that is constant is the lower receiver with the serial number that everything else is essentially attached to - unless you build your own lower receiver, which doesn't (yet) need a serial number. These firearms are very much like personal computers in the 1990s, where it was relatively easy to build them from scratch, customizing as you go. And that is the absurdity of trying to ban them, because attempts to do so either list specific makes and models, which is easily sidestepped, or through banned features, which can be easily swapped out for parts easily acquired over the Internet. That is part of the absurdity - you can't buy an AR over the Internet (unless you have it delivered to a local FFL, after a background check), but you can easily buy all the rest of the parts to put one together. Why didn't the San Bernadino Islamic terrorists have the CA required low function magazine releases on their AR-15s? Duh! AR-15s are highly modular. 30 round magazines? Standard size in neighboring AZ and NV, freely available and dirt cheap, cheaper than the reduced capacity magazines required in a half dozen states.

Bruce Hayden said...

A couple more thngs about AR-15s, etc. first, my understanding is that, contrary to most firearms technology, the military M-16 was a militarized (select fire) version of the civilian AR-15. The interesting thing though, to me, is that one of the reasons that this family of firearms has gotten so good is that technology moves fairly freely back and forth between the civilian and the military side. Soldiers and Marines were slapping civilian accessories on their military M-16s and M-4 Carbines, and then breaking them, which meant that they had to get better and better. This type of organic development works far better than the typical mega-weapons-program development we see so frequently in the Pentagon.

Secondly (in reaction to a comment by Michael K) - the M-16 has always had a three way selector switch. The first two modes are identical to the two available in the civilian AR-15 - safe and semi automatic (single shot). The military variants have a third mode. Initially, in, I believe, the first two generations of M-16s, this was fully automatic fire, which could exhaust a (then std) 20 round magazine in 2 seconds at roughly 600 RPM. The next two generations had fully automatic replaced by three round burst. And, I believe, that the latest generation has returned to fully automatic as the third mode. You may have meant this, but gave the impression that you could select between three round burst and full auto. It should be noted that either fully automatic fire or three round burst capabilities qualifies M-16s, as well as M-4 Carbines, as machine guns under the 1934 NFA. AR-15s are not machine guns, and thus not legally "assault rifles", which are defined by law, regulation, and treaty, as essentially select fire rifles shooting an intermediate cartridge (and why the term "assault weapon" was coined). Indeed, it is intentionally quite difficult to convert AR-15s to fire in a fully automatic mode.

Matt Sablan said...

It's good to know that after taking a few months away, when I come back, threads go through the same process of mildly interesting to interesting discussion, only for the entire thread to be completely and utterly derailed and ruined by the same people who made me give up attempting to have serious conversations as the last time.

Matt Sablan said...

"And yet, somehow this doesn't fall foul of the disclaimer about comments."

R&B and a few other posters in the same vein routinely say hyperbolic, hateful things. It's what made me give up posting here regularly. You couldn't have a serious conversation before someone showed up and ruined it.

Matt Sablan said...

"Fuck off and die. Good night. And don't let your likely method of suicide prevent you from reveling in your paranoia of attack today. "

--> Yep. That's sure bringing "some substance or humor" top the conversation. There's no personal attacks there! I honestly don't believe R&B is a "real" person in the sense they believe half of what they post, so much that they are just another standard troll the likes you see on Reddit or 4-Chan who are solely here for their own amusement at playing a character.

Rusty said...

R & B raged:

"I hate all of you."

Good. Now fuck off.

Bruce Hayden said...

Transitioning to the real topic here...

I don't think that Obama is willing to admit the obvious, that probably many hundreds of millions of Muslims world wide believe in a much more intolerant, militaristic version of Islam than he was taught while living in Milaysia. The Quoran appears to teach conversion by the sword, killing homosexuals, as well as unvirtuous women, etc. In my mind, he is essentially arguing that Muslims should be like Presbyterians, Methodists, and esp Anglicans in their faith, meaning that they should essentially write out of their scriptures those aspects that conflict with liberal sensibilities. That is hard though for many Muslims. Our Christian scriptures are considered divinely inspired Muslim scriptures are considered by most Muslims as having been divinely written. Much less wiggle room there.

One thing that has to be remembered is that Islam has been at war for almost the entirety of its 1400 year existence. Their penetration was halted for roughly half that by the eastern Ronan Empire, and, in the end, the walls of Constantinople. When those walls fell, they had roughly 50 years before technology and Christiandom exploded with the discovery of the New World, the industrial revolution. Etc. Muslim theology has long put them at great disadvantage when it comes to developing technology. It is only through the worldwide democratization of technology, plus tha accident of vast oil wealth to buy military technology, that they have again become the threat that they were for the first half of their existence.

The blindness of Obama and the left is that for many Muslims, assimilation is not a real option. The Quoran doesn't allow it. They can, and probably should, according to their religion, pretend to assimilate. But their goal is still world domination under Sharia law. That is what their divinely written scriptures require. So, allowing unveted Syrian Muslim "refugees" to enter this country in large numbers is crazy, and is insane in view of ISIS telling the world that many of them are its soldiers. Because they aren't being forced to assimilate, they don't have to play by liberal western ideals when they cone here, which is why they feel entitled to kill homosexuals and chaste women in their families, and to sexually molest, and sometimes rape any other heathen women lacking proper male protection (and, for non-Muslim women in the Middle East today, that often means that their male protectors were executed first, before the pubescent females are repeatedly gang raped). We either stop them, as we have for 1400 years, or we succumb. The Russians, Chinese, and Indians on their other borders learned the hard way that the only way to stop the spread of Islam is to match their brutality. Western civilization could easily succumb because our liberal world view denies us the required brutality. We may survive in the Americas because of the hundreds of millions of Catholics in Latin America. Europe though is probably all but lost.

Michael K said...

n 1995, LaPierre wrote a fundraising letter describing federal agents as "jack-booted government thugs" who wear "Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms.
That was meant as a compliment. Obviously.
A straightforward translation if 'LaPierre" is 'the Rock'.


Actually, that phrase was used not by La Pierre but by long time Democrat Congressman John Dingell.

Looks like I missed some craziness during the night.

Michael K said...

the walls of Constantinople. When those walls fell, they had roughly 50 years before technology and Christiandom exploded with the discovery of the New World, the industrial revolution. Etc. Muslim theology has long put them at great disadvantage when it comes to developing technology. It is only through the worldwide democratization of technology, plus tha accident of vast oil wealth to buy military technology, that they have again become the threat that they were for the first half of their existence.

Good summary.

See also why the FBI ignored the shooters in Orlando, San Bernardino and the bombers in Boston.

Doug said...

People who suspected all along that the jug-eared jackass in the White House is a muslim have reason now more than ever to confirm their belief.

Kevin said...

I caught this speech inadvertently yesterday and was riveted. It was immediately clear to me that it was a monumental speech, because it's the last of his presidency. Obama has reached the point, as all presidents do, where he is still the president but the country is moving on.

Obama's words were not about the future, not about where we go, and not about what he's going to do. It was a rear-guard action about what he has done, why it was correct, and why it was enough.

Leaders don't make those kind of speeches. They are made by people fighting to stay relevant.

Trump's speech the day before effectively ended the Obama Administration. With two words, he put the president and his administration on the defensive, and Obama acknowledged as much by naming him in the speech.

Obama may be on the campaign trail this fall, but he won't be campaigning for Hillary. Trump has ensured Obama will be fighting for his own legacy every time he takes the stage, and that's not going to help her.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

shiloh said...
375 and yes AA knows how to push buttons


You can't blame Althouse for this one. When it comes to the 'guns everywhere' crowd they push their own buttons, repeatedly. Some even switch into automatic mode.

damikesc said...

Republicans will gladly defend to the death this guy's alleged gun-bearing rights. Because freedom from tyranny means dying with a bunch of gays in a nightclub that you gunned down. Freedom to keep them from exercising their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Disarming those men and teaching them for years to not fight back but to sit back and wait for help killed those guys.

I love that your solution is to restrict the rights of Americans and not to limit the entry to the people who espouse such views. His father is a pretty vile person. Sure, he's not as evil as the Stanford swimmer's dad...somehow...but he's still pretty vile.

Obama is afflicted with the No True Scotsman syndrome.

No joke.

Every crime involving a gun is proof positive that gun owners are criminals and gun rights MUST be curtailed.

When Muslims kill people, well, that's just senseless violence. No lessons to be learned.

How unfortunate for you that some people actually go about their lives finding pleasure, instead of indulging your fantasy of making every American a never off-duty one-person police patrol unit.

49 people now cannot do so because none of them were allowed to defend themselves appropriately.

But gotta break some eggs for an omelette, I suppose.

I didn't realize that your fellow gun-rights sympathizer/owner Omar Mateen

Is there evidence that he was gun rights sympathizer? Him being armed is hardly evidence.

Bloomberg "hates" guns yet I bet his bodyguards are armed well.

We do know he was a Democrat...

Who opposed preventing purchases for those listed on the terrorism watch list, as apparently this guy was, Rt1 Rebel?

So owning guns is now the other thing, along with rape, that due process isn't needed to restrict rights over. Got it.

BTW, given her FBI issues, how can Hillary be allowed to have access to our military?

No mention of Hillary's huge cash haul from radical Muslim nations.

Hasn't Saudi Arabia claimed they've given her about 20% of her total so far?

I wonder why she'd take so much money from a country so opposed to women? She's taking money from a country that forced schoolgirls to burn to death rather than leave a school without their burkas on.

So keep Muslims out of the country but defend their rights to purchase arms when placed on the same list that keeps them from flying. I see your concerns about totalitarianism are very well-prioritized.

The government stopped the investigation. Wonder why.

BTW, Chic-Fil-A --- who "hates gays" --- opened on Sundays and provided free food for the people in the blood drive.

What have Progressives done? The gay community itself?

Yeah, jack shit.

Michael K said...

It's not really Trump who is making Obama irrelevant. Each terror attack makes it more obvious what a failure he has been.

The next attack will come along before the election. We will find out that the FBI has missed the real suspects because they are using training materials created by CAIR, which must be "respectful of Islam."

US citizens are discouraged from reporting suspicious behavior by the violent reaction from leftists to any criticism of a protected class.

It is interesting to see that Muslims now seem to rank above gays in the left's Pantheon of victim-heroes.

Hagar said...

Some special forces units get M-16s with the full auto option added. Standard issue is single shot and 3-round burst.

They gave me a M-1 Carbine for my last 6 months in the Army. I figured that if the balloon went up, I would ditch that for an M-1 Garand ASAP, and try to latch onto a BAR if I came across one.

Now, the guns I like to shoot is a 1st Gen Colt SAA from 1900 and a Ruger Single Six and I keep a S&W 66 with .38 Spcl.+p HP in the car.

damikesc said...

I'm just curious how a registered Democrat killing gays is the fault of conservatives.

Sure. And, I do clearly recall that the Rs, at the time, used the excuse that they couldn't trust BHO. But, that excuse is not reasonable, if the threat was truly urgent.

How was a Syrian civil war urgent for the US? I mean, if Iraq was a "huge mistake" because "it posed no threat" --- how the fuck can you argue in favor of Syria?

If N Korea had somehow launched nukes at us, would the Rs authorize BHO to use force? Of course. But w/ Syria, they said no because they themselves assumed that the threat to our country and interests was JV level.

Assad and his people slaughtering one another isn't our issue.

Us grandstanding and then immediately backing down is a problem.

It is interesting that even though it's not to rare to hear about BHO and the red line, pretty much nobody mentions the part played by the Rs in Congress. I guess that has to do w/ where the buck stops.

Did the R's tell him to make the red line comment? Even imply it was a good idea? Did the R's just get lambasted for invading Iraq for, again, "no valid reason"?

Can you explain why they'd be justified in Syria?

"Obama's" FBI (as you put it), doesn't have any more of a right to restrict that right than "any other president's" FBI does. Should it?

They stopped the investigation. Obama said the guy was fine through the action. So, what rights should be restricted based on after-the-fact rationalizations?

The issue is this. We have a constitution, they don't. I can't understand how these Althousians came to be more sensitive about the terrorists' gun rights (which aren't constitutionally protected) than about their due process (which is).

...but you wish to remove their gun rights without due process...

That's not why you oppose it. No matter how "fair" it were to be made (and the ACLU would probably still object anyway), you'd still be there, arguing for just any random terrorist's "gun rights" just as soon as they got into the country.

If they didn't get into the country, it'd be less of an issue. Who is arguing to try and prevent them from entering?

Hint: Not the Democrats.

Every right-wing Althousian is on record as opposing any method of restricting him those purchases.

I have no problem with criminals being forbidden from guns. It's just, unlike you, I try to be consistent on my support for due process.

Rusty said...

R & B raged:

"I hate all of you."

Like anybody cares.

And ARM shows up. I got a proposal for you. I think you'll like it.
Since our children have a greater chance of being molested or raped by someone they see every day I propose the FBI set up a data base on teachers. All teachers from pre-school to tenured college professors. Both public and private. They will have to fill out a form for their personal history, their work history and their credit history. They will be photographed and finger printed and a DNA swab kept on record. Updated every year. Failure to do so will result in dismissal and fines and or imprisonment. Of course you will have a copy of this data with you in card form. A card which you must present to federal authorities or the police if you are ever stopped and questioned. Failure to do so will result in a fine or imprisonment. When leaving the country the card along with your passport must be presented to customs officials who will note the time and destination of your trip. You must call in every three days to an FBI toll free number telling them where you are and what you are doing. Failure to do so will result in , you guessed it, dismissal fines and possible imprisonment.
For the safety of our children I think this is reasonable.

Michael K said...

Wow ! The craziness continues. It sure feels good to know someone is counting on me.

I would be worried about the mental health of that kid posting here, if I was worried about him at all.

Get some sleep.

Inga said...

Obama approval rating at 55%. Trump down by 14 points. Who will be "irrelevant" ?

Kevin said...

@Michael K: "It's not really Trump who is making Obama irrelevant. Each terror attack makes it more obvious what a failure he has been."

The attack is necessary but not sufficient. If the nominee had been, say, Jeb!, he would have said the usual unlikely-to-rile-anyone incantation about deepest sympathy for the dead and moved on, lest anything be uttered or inferred which might inflame the gay community.

Everyone would have expressed sorrow and the status quo would have continued.

Trump has no such fears.

Darcy said...

I do not think it is crazy, extreme, hateful, etc. to look at limiting the number of Muslim immigrants who would be invited to live in this country. We have a very different culture to theirs and their growing numbers here have demonstrated at least partly that their beliefs cause a serious conflict with them assimilating to our culture. That, combined with the very dangerous fringe of their population, seems a very good argument for a pause and eventual determination as to whether to limit their numbers.

JAORE said...

"It break the budget a bit, but does anyone think a Wilson compact w/ the 9 mm caliber is worth the dough?"

Sigh... never owned one. Never shot one. "Worth the dough" depends on the size of the dough ball and your priorities. Sadly I have somehow gotten family (and motorcycles!) ahead of firearms over the past few decades. Heck the guns I own would be beyond my budget if I were buying them today....

But our oldest, a real gun user and knowledgeable, has the Wilson on his list. Of course he's got (at least one) custom combat .45 from a local gunsmith so there's a bit of redundancy.

Sorry, mind wandering. With the size of my dough ball and priorities, no, I don't think it's worth it.

Bigger ball, different priorities? Hell yes! Wilson's have a great reputation.

If you get one and don't like it, I might trade you a slightly used grandchild for it.

Michael said...

"The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper names" - Confucius.

If you recognize something for what it is, you can take effective action against it. If you are unwilling to take action, then you cloud the issue. Obama's characterization is the cloud of ink released by a cuttlefish as it skitters away from danger.

Rusty said...

Miriam said...
Obama approval rating at 55%. Trump down by 14 points. Who will be "irrelevant" ?

What's that from? Could you check for me? Just look at the bottom of your cage.

BrianE said...

"I don't think that Obama is willing to admit the obvious, that probably many hundreds of millions of Muslims world wide believe in a much more intolerant, militaristic version of Islam than he was taught while living in Milaysia. The Quoran appears to teach conversion by the sword, killing homosexuals, as well as unvirtuous women, etc."- Bruce Hayden

This is the salient point, I believe, in the liberal argument that using the words "radical Islamists" would be misunderstood by the Muslim world. Many (most?) Muslims favor capital punishment for homosexuality. They may disagree with the tactic of randomly shooting homosexuals as was the case in Orlando, but don't disagree that homosexuality is deserving of the death penalty.

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