January 23, 2016

"Jeb has been a very good father. A wonderful son. A hard worker; his heart is big."

"When push comes to shove people are going to realize Jeb has real solutions, rather than talking about how popular they are, how great they are. He's doing it because he sees a huge need and it's not being filled by anybody. Of all the people running, he seems to be the one who could solve the problems. I think he'll be a great president."



That's a pleasant enough ad for Jeb. Question who it works on. Trump's tweeted response is: "Just watched Jeb's ad where he desperately needed mommy to help him. Jeb --- mom can't help you with ISIS, the Chinese or with Putin." That will work on some people. And Jeb responded to that....

75 comments:

PB said...

Jeb's part of the establishment, no matter how much he claims to be a conservative. That's his problem in the current cycle.

Humperdink said...

Big heart, deep pockets, small brain.

chickelit said...

Jeb represents status quo. If he were elected, nothing would really change in DC. A few cabinet members would come out of early (and well paid retirement); a few with the "D" brand would go into semi-retirement.

We'd hardly notice the water getting warmer before the boil.

Sebastian said...

Yes, Jeb would be a better president than Trump. Unlike Trump, he actually governed an actual state conservatively. He has some real, you know, plans--including one for actual immigration reform. As far as we can tell, he even voted for Republicans in Republican primaries and national elections. All knocks against him, of course. Plus he really is a lousy candidate. Can't be remedied.

Laslo Spatula said...

Playing the "Mom" card.

Embarrassing isn't the least of it.

Jeb: Republican Pajama Boy.

I am Laslo.

Ambrose said...

Sometimes I think I am a good father and a wonderful son. I am certainly a hard worker. Big heart? Sure. My mother would certainly think so. But I do not kid myself to think that means I am qualified to be President. I know in my big heart that my chances of becoming President are about as remote as, as .... wait for it, as Jeb Bush's.

chickelit said...

Sebastion said...As far as we can tell, he even voted for Republicans in Republican primaries and national elections.

You know Sebastion, all this "Party Purity" talk of "he voted for Republicans and only for Republican candidates his whole life" is really a slap in the face to anyone who has ever voted across party lines. It shows a real lack of imagination too.

Bob Ellison said...

The idiocracy is here and now.

chickelit said...

"Party Purity" sounds better in German: Partei Reinheit or Parteireinheit.

Bob Boyd said...

Sounds like a mother pleading with a judge at a sentencing.

Rhythm and Balls said...

"When push comes to shove people are going to realize Jeb has real solutions, rather than talking about how popular they are, how great they are."

Well, push has come to shove and all of his solutions are political solutions, not real solutions.

We live in an age in which people accustomed themselves to mistaking politics for reality and reality for politics.

Ordinarily, people would have the sense to call Trump's pie in the sky declarations surreal. But the point is that he's so damned determined that they're now realizing it's the lack of determination and grit on the part of Jeb and every other establishmentarian that keeps the bonkers, looney-tunes political games of the Jebs and the Rodhams and the rest of them from getting a damn thing done. They rest on their laurels and worry about reputation-protection and building a name - a game in which Trump's had them beat for decades. They take responsibility when things go well, and play the game when they don't.

pm317 said...

Jeb!! can't do anything right. Poor poor Jeb!

sydney said...

We don't need "nice." We need someone who will kick over the apple cart.

Quaestor said...

Thumbs up, Bob Boyd! That's exactly what I thought as I watched that ad -- desperation.

Two Bushes are enough. One Clinton was almost fatal. To hell with political dynasties.

Tank said...

Jeb should teach his wife to speak English. That is a job for him.

Michael K said...

JEB's worst advocate is himself. At least running got him to diet so it wasn't a total loss.

The Godfather said...

R&B says that "all of his [Bush's] solutions are political solutions, not real solutions." I hate to break it to you, R&B, but that's what government does: politics. Tromp's proposal to ban all Muslim immigration for an unspecified period of time is a "political solution". His proposal to build a wall on the Mexican border and make the Mexican government pay for it is a "political solution". If you mean that Jeb's proposed solutions won't work, and Tromp's will, you need to explain why. My impression is that a lot of Tromp supporters have simply been dazzled by his bull shit, but not being world-class bull-shitters themselves, they can't explain why his proposals are so great.

Bob Boyd said...

I'm wringing out my hankie.

AJ Lynch said...

George HW Bush was a very average president IMHO.
George W. Bush was a below average president IMHO.

We have no reason to believe Jeb will be any better so no thanks Babs.

JAORE said...

I think Trump is a lousy choice. But, as I have watched the "real" Republican dismiss and insult conservatives, as I have watched the majority party in both the House and Senate do NOTHING to halt the expansion of government and the expansion of the imperial presidency...... sigh.

I understand Trump's appeal. If you don't study the man and his past, if you don't care about property rights, if you don't care about crony capitalism... sigh.

He certainly has the guts to hammer at issues that frustrate the conservatives. And he is an outsider. That seems to be enough for now.

Cruz would, IMO, do lots more to shrink the beast of the Federal government. That's why all the current power brokers hate him. I consider that a plus. But, Cruz, comes off as a dick. Bush, a true insider.

Rubio, I guess.

Chuck said...

There is a word for Donald Trump. Several, in fact. "Prick" might be one. "Dickhead" would be another.

But for a truly wonderful string of words about Donald Trump, I recommend you turn to this superbly hilarious putdown from Matt Labash of the conservative Weekly Standard; "Nine Tales of Trump at his Trumpiest":

http://www.weeklystandard.com/nine-tales-of-trump-at-his-trumpiest/article/2000697

Read the whole thing. Labash knows Trump; he profiled Trump some years ago. You will have heard many of these Trump howlers before. But I don't think anyone has ever had so much fun, savaging Trump.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Well, I think I've expressed my skepticism of Trump's politics (i.e. "surreal" "pie in the sky declarations"), but then, he has just as much of a right to play the political game as they do. I made the distinction between him and them solely on his sense of determination, and - now that you mention it- willingness to "go there" and say things that he may actually believe even when they aren't popular or even sound outrageous. So those are the differences. Not that he's somehow "not" political... (Is anyone? Is even the pope [or even his inspiration] not political?). But that's not the same as saying he's not determined or that he's unwilling to break convention and those things (rightly, IMO) work in his favor.

Rhythm and Balls said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

Barbara Bush is one of the most formidable women to be involved with politics since Abigail Adams (and I'm not overlooking Bill Clinton's wife), but when she says "people are going to realize Jeb has real solutions..." I'd like to know What. Those. Alleged. Solutions. Are. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so.

Paco Wové said...

"actual immigration reform"

Meaning?

Chuck said...

One of the great many things I like about the Matt Labash's extended column on the "Trumpiest" of Trump is his focus on Trump's use of Twitter.

I have a visceral distaste for Twitter on the same order as my distaste for Trump. Never in the history of mankind has there been a better medium, to allow low-grade thinkers to broadcast their stupidity more widely. As Labash suggests, Twitter seems to have been made for Trump and vice versa.

If you are going to broadcast a 140-character message, it ought to be really good, and thoroughly verifiable.

I'd never have imagined that Twitter would be useful for a demagogue. I'd have thought that good demagoguery would require more space. Shows you what kind of a 21st century demagogue I'd make.

Amexpat said...

None of the Bushes have been strong presidential candidates. George Sr. rode in on Reagan's legacy and faced the lamest Dem candidate that I can recall. Even then, he needed the talent of Lee Atwater to get by. Sr lost his reelection when faced with a relatively strong Dem candidate.

George W had his father's organization and Karl Rove's political skills to get the nomination. His razor thin victory in the general election was more a matter of Gore losing than him winning.

Without a campaign manager of any great skill (imagine what Atwater would have done to Trump), Jeb is performing on par with the rest of the family.

Jonathan Graehl said...

Trump's response makes me think "that's too mean. poor nice jeb! and what will his grandma, i mean momma, think when she hears what the bully said?".

But it also works for me. Then again, I already turned on Jeb a long time ago.

Isn't it about time we elected a bully?

readering said...

Trump bothers to tweet against Bush's 90 year old Mom? What kind of serious politician allows himself to be so easily distracted? I guess the kind who looks over at his 30 year daughter and imagines out loud dating her.

Rhythm and Balls said...

Twitter no good for a demagogue? Every damn revolution since 2009 from puny SJW hashtags to downing the Iranian regime has been waged on Twitter.

As a medium, I've thought it was bullshit for a long time (140 characters or less? What could go wrong?) But I guess like most people I've come around to identifying some favorites. The ability to link multi-media definitely helps.

This guy and this tweet are a couple of the best, I'd say.

Sal said...

The first part of Barbara Bush's comments are also said by mothers whose sons were just arrested for a violent crime.

Lyle Smith said...

I love Barbara Bush. She spoke at my brother's college graduation. Smart and a strong personality.

Ann Althouse said...

@Chuck Sorry I had to delete your comment: You responded to one of the commenters I always delete. I don't want to see that name here. It's a permanent decision I had to make a while back.

Cacimbo Cacimbo said...

Jeb needs to go away. He is just digging the hole deeper. This Mommy ad was pathetic and reinforced the image Trump has painted of Jeb as weak.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

He's a compassionate conservative! ...Oh brother. Just give it up already, Jebbie. Nobody likes you. Go home, yer mommie's callin'...

Chuck said...

Amexpat: None of the Bushes were good candidates?!?

I have posted this previously. The Bushes are batting .833 when they are on presidential tickets. 5 wins on 6 tickets.

Reagan/Bush 1; they won.
Reagan/Bush 2; they won.
Bush/Quayle; they won.
Bush/Quayle 2; they lost, to Bill Clinton with <50% of the vote, when Ross Perot entered the race.
Bush/Cheney 1; they won.
Bush/Cheney 2; they won.

If you are looking for a more successful presidential family in American history, it could only be the Roosevelts. The Bushes are on a par with John Adams (two terms as VP and two as President) and John Quincy Adams (one term).

Rhythm and Balls said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rhythm and Balls said...

You may yet grow to love it some day, N.

mccullough said...

No wonder Jeb's campaign can't catch fire. This ad is nice but reinforces his weaknesses. I have no idea why Jeb is running for President. He has no idea why he is running and his mom has no idea either. His only reason for running at this point seems to be that he doesn't like Donald Trump. But Jeb has to know Rubio is more likely to defeat Trump. Rubio's policies are pretty much the same as Jeb's and Rubio is young, dynamic, and not burdened with the last name Bush.

Trump is antagonizing Jeb so that he continues to stay in the race and waste money and keep his donors and supporters from jumping to Rubio (or Kasich or Christie). Trump understands Jeb better than Jeb or his mom do. It's the little brother syndrome.

Eustace Chilke said...

Good to see Barbara Bush looking as well as she does in her age.

My mother would endorse my ambitions as well. Hard to tell, as A.A. says, who that ad works on.

I've just laughed at Jeb's ads so far. That one where they try giving Rubio the business on imigration and end with Jeb's picture barrelling along on the side of a freight train. Jeb, please. You sealed your doom with that "act of love" horseshit, you dumbass. I can go to a large construction site here in town and hunt for half an hour before finding anyone who can speak English. And that person will be a Mexican general foreman. I won't vote for Trump but I'll laugh if he's elected.

We'll see something or other to amuse us from Jeb until the money dries up I suppose. If he died of tetanus I'd feel sorry for his mother but that's all.

traditionalguy said...

Trump should appoint Jeb to be his Ambassador to Mexico to negotiate how the Mexican Rulers pay for the Wall de Triumpe...I mean, Wall of Trump.

mccullough said...

I like the JJ Watt photo with Barbara Bush. She would be a better president than HW, W, or Jeb or Hillary.

Barbara Bush is the woman Hillary never could be. She's tough.

Anglelyne said...

Chuck: I recommend you turn to this superbly hilarious putdown from Matt Labash of the conservative Weekly Standard; ; "Nine Tales of Trump at his Trumpiest"...

I suspected, but now I'm convinced. The above sentence is too much like Conservative Pundit at his Conservative Pundity-est: the syntax, the vocabulary, the tone, the dead-pan link to the most-mocked Conservatism, Inc. organs.

All further confirmed by the utterly hackneyed observations on the intellectual nullity of Twitter, delivered with that perfectly-calibrated air of unreflective pomposity.

Consider yourself outed, Chuck, you sly dog.

Amexpat said...

@ Chuck
Two problems with your stats. The first is including running on the bottom of the ticket. It's the top of the ticket that calls the shot and the VP has little impact on the outcome the election.

The second is not taking into account the competition or circumstances. Judging a major league manager just by his winning percentage is misleading. You need to see how he did with the players he had.

Unknown said...

Funny comment by trump and good response by Jeb! Jeb! Is done however.

Chuck said...

I have never once clicked on "Conservative Pundit." I assure you I am not "Conservative Pundit." I might not even respond to the allegation, but for the fact that I think I might owe it to Professor Althouse, lest others think that she is harboring another blogger who is anonymously using her site for other ends.

Before I go to Conservative Pundit (for the first time in my life); tell me what you know about the author(s) and/or proprietor(s) of that site. Does he/she/they have a name? A location?

What can I do or say, to absolutely convince you that I am not "Conservative Pundit"? (I am guessing that Professor Althouse would know this or guess it already; I have corresponded with her privately before, and have told her my last name, my location -- state of Michigan, and my profession -- attorney.)

Rhythm and Balls said...

"Jeb has been a very good father. A wonderful son. A hard worker; his heart is big."

Yeah. So are a lot of people. That says nothing about why they should be elected president, though.

The GOP "everyman" messaging strategy is apparently failing.

Does he love his dog, too?

Unknown said...

Trump has energized this race like no other. He has skewered the war on women, he has skewered the "question open borders be called a racist" card, he has skewered the republican parties willingness to make a trade deal that might actually help its citizens and he has been willing to say what needs to be said about, maybe,just maybe, Islam just does not work in a liberal society.

None of that would have happened without him. Hillary would be trotting bill out and playing the women's card ( Christie, Jeb!, Rubio have already criticized trump for it ) and the rest would be back burnered.

We would be talking about the growth of government that republicans never stop, wars that we never seem to win, planned parenthood, obamacare and how unconstitutional Obama is. We would be arguing about how great immigration is for all of you rubes who are out of work.

All issues that do hardly anything for anyone that isn't a intellectual who writes for a living.

I am so happy to have someone running that will punch someone in the mouth. It is so refreshing.

cubanbob said...

JEB is alright. I voted for him for Governor every time he ran and on balance was a good governor. However if elected he wouldn't be the guy to seriously attempt a rollback of the progressive state. Rather he would do some tax reductions (yeah!) and a few other such things on the margin but in the main would be a much more competent administrator of the welfare state. Presumably the same can be said about Kasich and Christie.

I prefer Cruz because of all the candidates he really does seem to have a real inclination towards smaller government. Rubio I have my doubts if he really has the inclination to rollback the government. However I doubt he will increase the size of the government.

Trump is a different animal altogether, he really is more of an old fashioned populist Democrat than a Republican, a nationalist and harking back to pre 1941 more of a Republican of that era isolationist. Maybe everything old is new again. Still he has the attraction of not being proudly un PC. he is the guy that seems to able to smash the face of the Left and then kick them in the nuts when they are down. A lot of people like that.

Michael K said...

"None of that would have happened without him. Hillary would be trotting bill out and playing the women's card ( Christie, Jeb!, Rubio have already criticized trump for it ) and the rest would be back burnered. "

Yup. I don't even like Trump but I think I know why he is here and where he is coming from.

Which is more than National Review can say.

JAORE said...

My wife and I both used to recruit candidates for our respective workplaces. On rare occasions a mother would write a letter of support for her precious darling. On very rare occasions she would show up at the interview.

These were food for much merriment after the interviews. They were not productive in finding a quality employee.

Anglelyne said...

Chuck: What can I do or say, to absolutely convince you that I am not "Conservative Pundit"?

I know you're not Conservative Pundit, Chuck.

And yet...you're response here is so...exquisite, so pitch-perfect, that I begin to think that perhaps I've stumbled upon the truth inadvertently.

In Clown World, it's impossible to find one's way on the Llano Estacado of parody.

Mary Beth said...

Wait, The WaPo says Trump dragged Bush's mom into this because Trump tweeted something after Barbara Bush made an ad. Isn't this the same paper that had a cartoon showing Cruz's daughters as monkeys because they were in an ad with their father?

From Inwood said...

R&B

Next an ad focusing on how Jeb's dog loves him & trusts him

This kind of stuff was laughed at in The Last Hurrah in 1955 for goodness sake. Also see Capt. Queeg's pathetic speech to his officers in The Caine Mutiny

J. Farmer said...

What the hell is with that WaPo headline? "Donald Trump just dragged Jeb Bush’s ‘mommy’ into their fight? She released an ad that specifically included a dig at him. Didn't she drag herself into their fight?

chickelit said...

J. Farmer wrote...Didn't she drag herself into their fight?

Yes, she did. I had the same thought, but failed to state it. WaPo is really shameless in their reporting.

Chuck said...

Anglelyne: ...your...

Paco Wové said...

"I don't even like Trump but I think I know why he is here and where he is coming from."

Nice post. In the same vein, somebody may already have linked to this:

"To simplify Francis' theory: There are a number of Americans who are losers from a process of economic globalization that enriches a transnational global elite. These Middle Americans see jobs disappearing to Asia and increased competition from immigrants. Most of them feel threatened by cultural liberalism, at least the type that sees Middle Americans as loathsome white bigots. But they are also threatened by conservatives who would take away their Medicare, hand their Social Security earnings to fund-managers in Connecticut, and cut off their unemployment too.
...
Libertarian economists, standing giddily behind Republican politicians, celebrate this as creative destruction even as the collateral damage claims millions of formerly-secure livelihoods, and — almost as crucially — overall trust and respect in the nation's governing class."

chickelit said...

Chuck scolded Anglelyne: ...your...

Really? That's all u got?

Chuck said...

Now since today's topic of discussion is Republican primary tv ads, I want to run a little contest.

Let's just say that the Jeb Bush campaign had run a tv ad about the worthy cause of American veterans, and what the campaign proposed to do for them. But instead of still-images of American veterans, the ad used images of Russian military veterans.

You can't make this stuff up:
http://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-pulls-veterans-ad-after-using-footage-of-russian-soldiers-video/

So the contest question is this: If the Jeb Bush campaign had done something as stupid as what the Trump campaign actually did, what would be #TheRealDonaldTrump's Twitter response?

(I am not going to blame Trump for this one at least not personally; Trump isn't compiling the video for his ads, obviously. Trump didn't gather the Moroccan video that was supposed to be Mexicans on the US border. And he didn't pick the hilariously bad photo of the Russian veterans. My only question is whether Trump will publicly fire the campaign staff and promoters who did make the errors? He's the guy who America knows best for firing people. What about his own campaign staff?)

Anglelyne said...

chickelit: Chuck scolded Anglelyne: ...your...

Really? That's all u got?


No, chick, no! Theirs so much more hear that your not seeing. Cuck is a master-parodist, whose operating at a level so high its almost meta.

Chuck said...

Don't flatter yourself, Anglelyne; I just didn't care any more than that.

AJ Lynch said...

Amazed at the number of commenters here and at other places who preface their comment with "Not a Trumo Fan but..."

chickelit said...

AJ wrote: Amazed at the number of commenters here and at other places who preface their comment with "Not a Trumo Fan but..."

It's virtue signalling, AJ. Mostly written by men who're afraid that their wives or girlfriends will see what usually follows.

Anglelyne said...

Chuck: Don't flatter yourself, Anglelyne; I just didn't care any more than that.

See what I mean, chickelit? Pitch perfect, every time.

Sublime.

Saint Croix said...

I actually like Jeb's tweet, that was funny and cool. High road! You know it.

And I thought Trump's tweet was really good too, actually. It was rough. Mama's boy! If we were in law school, we would say, hey, that's an ad hominem attack! That's not fair. But if you can't play rough, what the hell. You're running for most powerful guy in the world. And you're white! Better man up, buddy.

Let's put it this way, I'd rather Trump takes shots at an elitist rich family than the poor kid washing dishes at a sub-minimum wage. And, while I'm on the subject, if Trump was a bit better at this stuff, he might mention that billionaires who are happy with all the illegal immigration are the bad guys, not him.

Anyway, I picture Trump--I think of him now as Grump--sitting alone in front of his TV, drinking his scotch, sad, wondering why we don't like him. I mean, how would you like a magazine devoted to telling the world what a shit you are? "Consuela!" Grump yells, at his illegal immigration maid, "I need more scotch, damn it! Come here, you hot mama."

Paul said...

"
It's virtue signalling, AJ. Mostly written by men who're afraid that their wives or girlfriends will see what usually follows."

Yes. I said it was virtue signalling weeks ago, which is the behavior of those who need to be accepted by the herd.

Saint Croix said...

Wait, The WaPo says Trump dragged Bush's mom into this because Trump tweeted something after Barbara Bush made an ad. Isn't this the same paper that had a cartoon showing Cruz's daughters as monkeys because they were in an ad with their father?

One thing Trump is doing is exposing the hypocrisy and corruption in our media. They are giving him all this free media attention, right? Because he's being provocative and ugly and mean and strange and funny and all over the map. He's being unpredictable, screwing up the Republican primary. And the media loves it and gives him all this attention. While simultaneously hating on him and saying how awful it is. Hypocrites!

I would like the WaPo to look in the mirror and ask themselves what kind of journalism is this? We've been telling journalists for years, for decades, you're turning politics into entertainment. And journalists are like, "yeah, yeah, whatever." And now they are all acting like the National Enquirer.

Corrupt media! Trump brings in the ratings and the money! You know he does! While they preach how they are high road and the fourth estate and the watchdogs of democracy. Oh you media shits are embarrassing. My one big hope out of this campaign season is that journalists continue to be mocked and scorned for the joke they have made of their profession. And I'm not talking about NR, which is an editorial magazine, filled with opinions, and thoughtful ones. I'm talking about the so-called "fact-finding" journalists who are supposed to be interested in truth. Not this gossip cartoon joke they have become.

Saint Croix said...

If the New York Times or whoever is truly worried about our republic, you might take some "serious" candidate on the Republican side and give him the Obama treatment. Suck up to the Republicans you like, you media rags. Turn on the propaganda machine for the mainstream Republican. You better get to it, you're running out of time!

Chuck said...

Saint Croix:

You said it!

"... [Trump]'s being unpredictable, screwing up the Republican primary. And the media loves it and gives him all this attention..."

I'd suggest an anti-Republican conspiracy on the part of the MSM; except that I don't like conspiracy theories and the Fox News Channel has been featuring Trump as well.

I think of FNC these days as divided as, say, the American Spectator. Where half of the conservative punditry loathes Trump and the other half is promoting him. Weird stuff going on at FNC. George Will criticizes Bill O'Reilly's book; Bill O retaliates and goes 'Trump' on Will. Steve Hayes ridicules Trump; Sean Hannity defends Trump.

One of the weirdest scenes was, the other night when Megyn Kelly started to go off on the Flint Water Crisis. You heard it here first, Althousians; Governor Rick Snyder did nothing wrong in the case, except to be a bit slow on the response. There are real wrongdoers in the case, and they are midlevel civil servants in the MDEQ (members of the SEIU) and in the USEPA. It will be a huge struggle to make the case, when the national media/Michael Moore/Cher/MSNBC all want to make a villain out of the Republican governor (and ONLY the Republican governor!) but the facts just won't allow that. Stay tuned.

Roger Sweeny said...

We would be talking about ... how unconstitutional Obama is. ... I am so happy to have someone running that will punch someone in the mouth. It is so refreshing.

That's what Obama's unconstitutionality is ALL ABOUT. "Those yahoos won't go along with 'reasonable' gun control. I'll show them and do it by executive order (Pow! Take that). Those racists won't change the immigration laws. I'll do it myself by executive order (Pow! And that)." And so on. And so on.

hombre said...

I never lost a jury trial where mom was the alibi witness and I never cross examined mom either. I just waited for final argument and said: "What's a mother to do?"

That's my first reaction to this ad. What's a mother to do? My second reaction is, do we really want to elect someone who is stupid enough to run this lame ad?

Bay Area Guy said...

Poor Jeb - did a good job as 2-term governor State (Fla) 10 years ago.

Has done nothing since, has squandered his donors millions, has run worst Primary campaign ever.

Sorry, Jeb, it's just not your year.

D. B. Light said...

It's actually painful to watch Jeb's long, slow, sad decline. He's a good man and was a fine governor. It's just that the world has changed, and he hasn't.

FullMoon said...

I like Trump insulting Hillary.
Makes me cringe sometimes, though
Reminds me of "The Producers". Trying to intentionally fail,
but just can't do it. He can never be as disgusting as Hillary,
that is his appeal to a lot of people.