August 21, 2013

"If a TV Shrink makes my daughter feel guilty b/c she was date raped while drunk, can I punch him in his dick?"

Just one of the #DrPhilQuestions Dr. Phil inspired — simply by asking "if a girl is drunk, is it OK to have sex with her?"

27 comments:

Paddy O said...

Answer:

Yes, if you're drunk. Then you don't have to take responsibility for anything that happens.

Robert Cook said...

To the degree there is any sort of outrage being ginned up over this, it's fake...or proof Americans are too stupid to breathe.

The question he posed is obviously rhetorical, meant to generate responses...you know, to create a discussion that may allow glimmers of light to dawn in the vestigial brains of those cretins who might actually see a helplessly drunk girl as fair game for their opportunistic advances.

Jim said...

Should I teach my daughter that she is responsible for her own behavior (including her drinking), or teach her that she is, like a child, not a fully responsible being? #QuestionsInspiredByDrPhilQuestions

traditionalguy said...

If it is illegal to drink under age 21 and especially illegal to drink and drive, then it should be illegal to ride a straight stick while drunk too.

I learned yesterday that Korbel Winery that makes a popular California Champaign in Guerneville in Sonoma County on the Russian River, also makes an excellent Brandy.(Brandy being distilled wine.)

Anyway, 25% of Korbel's Brandy is sold in Wisconsin. So beware of U. Of Wisconsin male students bearing brandy.

Sam L. said...

Twitter ain't the place/way to get serious answers to a serious question.

Doc Phil is now Doc Fell On His Face In A Gutter.

Bruce Hayden said...

If we are talking realistic ethics here, then, of course, it is not ok for one person to have sex with another when the latter is too drunk to know what is going on, and, maybe not if they are not in any condition to say "no".

But, beyond that, it is more problematic. If it is a guy taking advantage of a girl, I do think that the guy often has culpability here but that doesn't get the girl off the hook either. The question should be asked how she got drunk and alone with that guy. And most often, I would suggest, she willingly got intoxicated in a situation where she did not have sober friends looking after her. And, most often, she knew that it was dangerous.

At the college level, a lot of women seem to engage in serious binge drinking, esp. on weekends, drinking enough that they would be 2+ times over the legal limit if they were to drive. On probably most campuses, binge drinking (by both sexes) is probably the biggest cause for EMT calls. And, that women can be taken advantage of in such a situation should be surprise to no one on most campuses - they are typically made fully aware of the dangers during orientation.

I became aware of another part of the dynamic several years ago when reading a book titled "Queen Bees and Wannabes", where it was pointed out that a lot of young women believe that if they have sex with guys outside of relationships, they will often be considered sluts, but if they do so drunk, then it was an accident, ignoring that getting drunk in the first place was intentional. (This is likely much more the case in HS, and maybe even MS, than in college).

So, in summary, the guy shouldn't have done it, but the girl shouldn't have put herself in the position where he could, and if he hadn't taken advantage of her, some other guy probably would have.

Carol said...

gahhh why is the font so huge at that site

Bruce Hayden said...

Jim - I think that you know the answer to that question by the way that you phrased it. Young women don't have to drink, and esp. binge drink, and if they do, then they don't have to do so without protection - typically meaning having sober friends along to make sure that they are not cut out from the crowd and taken off somewhere. And, the latter really does work, if done right - I know of sororities that have "sober sisters" programs where every third or fourth woman is sober, and charged with the safety of specific sisters on a given night. The duty then rotates so that the next time, these sober sisters can enjoy themselves (and, apparently, it isn't always easy being the sober ones, because young women really do like young men, etc)

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Doesn't it seem a little strange that I'm a super-cool stud if I can get a woman with 0.079 blood alcohol to consent to have sex with me but I'm a criminally insane rapist if I can get a woman with 0.080 blood alcohol to do the same?

Wayworn Wanderer said...

Doesn't it seem a little strange that I'm a super-cool stud if I can get a woman with 0.079 blood alcohol to consent to have sex with me but I'm a criminally insane rapist if I can get a woman with 0.080 blood alcohol to do the same?

jimbino said...

To say a woman was "raped while drunk" is entirely begging the question. The fact is that she had sex while drunk. The question is "did she consent"?

Sorry, but in my long life I've known women who would only allow themselves to have sex when "drunk" or at least high.

For myself, I have to be high to have sex with a woman with whom I can't converse with about interesting things like physics, math, computer science and welding. Especially if she has a dog or cat.

And what's this grammatical aberration "has drank" all about?

Birches said...

Preach it Jim.

@ Paddy O. No, if you a man and you're drunk, then you are obviously just a sick predator.

Rape culture will end when drunk culture ends.

n.n said...

First, don't drink and date. Where is MADD when our daughters' "pants are on the ground"?

Second, was it rape or rape-rape? Apparently, there is a rhetorical difference with a selective significance.

Finally, they need an inebriated walk to accompany its sister slut walk.

Does drinking to incapacitation or otherwise being vulnerable indicate implied consent? Similar to the original argument exploited by the administration in order to justify Obamacare.

Clyde said...

There was a video clip recently from a baseball game of a zoom-in on a woman passed out with her head in the lap of the guy sitting next to her. He was "getting to second base" with the oblivious woman. Might have been his wife or girlfriend, might have been a random stranger; we don't know.

My take on it was that it was stupid of the woman to drink to the point of passing out and putting herself into the position where she could be easily victimized. You should keep your wits about you, no matter your sex, but men are far less likely to wake up the victim of sexual assault.

MadisonMan said...

25% of Korbel's Brandy is sold in Wisconsin

BOFS for everyone!!

jimbino said...

To say a woman was "raped while drunk" is entirely begging the question. The fact is that she had sex while drunk. The question is "did she consent"?

Sorry, but in my long life I've known women who would only allow themselves to have sex when "drunk" or at least high.

For myself, I have to be high to have sex with a woman with whom I can't converse with about interesting things like physics, math, computer science and welding. Especially if she has a dog or cat.

And what's this grammatical aberration "has drank" all about?

tola'at sfarim said...

Is it ok to have sex with drunk men?

30yearProf said...

I've seen survey's that say 80-90% of women never have sex with having a drink or 2. If that's true, a large majority of CONSENSUAL sex involves women with a buzz on. That's commonly referred to as "drunk."

I assume Dr. Phil meant "blind, staggering drunk", as my generation would put it. That is SO INEBRIATED that they are unable to give consent. If they have passed out, the answer is easy. But many women retain their ability to speak ("Yes, fuck me.") long after they have become unable to do crossword puzzles or make "good" decisions.

So the BIG issue in most cases is are words of consent ("YES") articulated by a woman still capable of saying "no" but who does NOT, to be miraculously understood by an aroused male as "No"? It seems to me that "yes" can never mean "no" until humanity develops telepathy. We aren't there yet.

66 said...

Why should your daughter's feelings on any topic allow you to assault Dr. Phil?

How does Dr. Phil make your daughter feel guilty?

Why does anyone ever watch Dr. Phil for any reason?

Crunchy Frog said...

Binge drinking is how a lot of college (and let's face it, high school too) girls get to have sex without consequences.

"I'm not a slut, I just got drunk and then those three [pick any number] guys took advantage of me."

Well sweetheart, you got drunk to lower your inhibitions to get laid by multiple partners. What would you call it?

Illuninati said...

Women like to talk about equality, but do they really mean it? We know that girls are not responsible for their behavior when they are drunk. If a guy ha sex with her, it could be considered date rape. So, if a guy has sex with a woman when he is drunk, does that mean that he is not responsible? If she is somewhat sober when the event occurred, is she a rapist? What if they are both drunk when they have sex, does that mean that neither of them are responsible?

MayBee said...

Can a drunk man who has sex with a not-drunk woman still be made to pay child support?

Do drunk men have more self control than drunk women?

It is morally wrong to have sex with someone so drunk they don't know what they are doing, if you do not usually have sex with them and you aren't as impaired.. Almost everything else is a gray area.

jr565 said...

What if the guy who is about to have sex with the girl who is drunk is also drunk?
Would he have date raped if he was sober?

eteam said...

Chalk me up for *YES*, it is OK to have sex with a drunk woman, if the woman consents. Same rules as sober woman.

I had a long-term relationship with a woman who couldn't have sex without 'loosening up' -- i.e. getting (a bit) drunk. That's what relaxed her and allowed her to enjoy the evening.

Are there really so many people who are oblivious to the notions of *degrees* of drunkenness and *consenting* adults (who may also be drunk)? Or is this simply a herd-think of fake outrage?

Anglelyne said...

Questions of morality and responsibility in these situations would be a lot more clear if we removed "rape" from the discussion. But degrees of "rape" and legalism is all you've got left once your sexual culture is shot all to hell and reduced to the state of anomic baboonery.

You're both wasted (but conscious) and you have sex? Nobody got raped. You both have to face any consequences of your irresponsible behavior. Wasted but conscious and consenting female and not-so-wasted male? Various degrees of low-lifery and irresponsiblity all 'round, but no rapist in sight. Dude of any degree of consciousness performing a sex act on a comatose female (or male, for that matter)? He's a disgusting pig, no doubt about it, but, um, drinking oneself into a stupor is somehow an entirely neutral and exculpatory behavior here?

I say this as one who liked to par-tay as much as the next girl in her youth, and danced (metaphorically, at least) on a table or two. But geez, people, would it kill you to show some class? A few simple rules. No drinking oneself into obliviousness or unconsciousness. (Really, it's not as if the fun of inebriation doesn't asymptote well before that stage.) No shagging the temporarily be-corpsed. How hard can it be?

Gahrie said...

Answer:

Whatever ther girl wants, and you'd better hope like hell she doesn't change her mind..either way.

More than one man has been accused of rape because he didn't have sex with her.

phx said...

Too many of us are set to Launch on Warning.