May 20, 2013

Obama's message: Nobody cares... no time for excuses...

Obama was addressing the graduates at Morehouse College, which is an all-male and historically black college.
Obama said that too many young black men make “bad choices.”

“Growing up, I made quite a few myself,” Obama said. “Sometimes I wrote off my own failings as just another example of the world trying to keep a black man down. I had a tendency to make excuses for me not doing the right thing.”

But, the president implored, “we’ve got no time for excuses.”

“In today’s hyper-connected, hyper-competitive world, with millions of young people from China and India and Brazil, many of whom started with a whole lot less than all of you did, all of them entering the global workforce alongside you, nobody is going to give you anything you haven’t earned,” he said. “Nobody cares how tough your upbringing was. Nobody cares if you suffered some discrimination.”
ADDED: Here's the full text of the speech.

101 comments:

Jay said...

Sometimes I wrote off my own failings as just another example of the world trying to keep a black man down.

Now he just writes off his failings as just another example of racist House Republicans, supported by a Tea Party he wants audited endlessly no less, trying to keep a black man down.

Palladian said...

...nobody is going to give you anything you haven’t earned...

The irony, she burns!

Mogget said...

Physician, heal thyself!

Dante said...

As Drudge noted, Obama has taken recently to making certain everyone knows he is black.

I wonder how much of this is "Look, I have 13% of the people in this nation looking for a reason to be angry, so don't impeach me."

Joe Schmoe said...

When he says to the Morehouse grads that they know what it's like to feel marginalized, they are likely marginalized the most by other black men who scoff at the notion of going to college because that's what white people do. There's a lot of peer pressure among black men not to become cornball brothers.

Mitchell the Bat said...

A properly constructed tinfoil hat will deflect those mind-control beams and you can go on caring.

St. George said...

It's clear now that Obama and his administration used the first term to set up a vast police-state operation against a vast array of his political enemies.

NRO has a story this morning about how a Texas small business owner was investigated by no less than five government agencies for having the temerity to get involved in politics. The bureaucratic drip, drip, drip and fines are the American equivalent of the knock on the door in the middle of the night. It's terrifying enough to get the job done. For now.

His only hope is to mobilize his underclass, low-information voters. His well-educated urban elite supporters may not like Republican views, but they live next door to Republicans, work with them, and have them as relatives.

This man is far more insidiously terrible than any of us could have imagined. Watergate was absolutely nothing compared to this.

mark said...

I wonder who wrote his speech. It would be interesting to read some more of their work.

Nomennovum said...

"I had a tendency to make excuses for me not doing the right thing.”

Why the past tense, Barry?

The Drill SGT said...

This was far from a Sista Sodjah moment.

Morehouse has always been the place where black families sent their young men who were prepared for discipline and no excuses

Developing Morehouse Men is their goal.

Nomennovum said...

"Nobody cares if you suffered some discrimination.” -- IRS acting director Steve Miller to Tea Party organizations rejected for Section 501(c)(4) tax exempt status

AllenS said...

Obama was addressing the graduates at Morehouse College, which is an all-male and historically black college.

Racism...

Nomennovum said...

and sexism

Lem said...

The speech had water.

Kchiker said...

"Obama was addressing the graduates at Morehouse College, which is an all-male and historically black college.

Racism..."

Of those that attend the college? Or those who didn't apply because it was historically black?

Pogo said...

He shoulda deployed a mess of marines to hold umbrellas over all those grads sitting in the rain.

Matthew Sablan said...

That's an odd message to be giving to people who already know that.

Pogo said...

"Yet Obama acknowledged that “the bitter legacies of slavery and segregation” have not vanished, that discrimination still exists."

Damn that Goldstein!

AllenS said...

Kchiker said...
Of those that attend the college? Or those who didn't apply because it was historically black?

Those that didn't apply because they were historically white.

Let me try this again, but make a few changes:

Obama was addressing the graduates at Whitebread College, which is an all-male and historically white college.

Racism...

Go ahead, Nomennovum...

Pogo said...
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Pogo said...
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Pogo said...

Obama: "Every one of you has a grandma or an uncle or a parent whose told you at some point in life as an African American you have to work twice as hard as anyone else if you want to get by."

It's clear he's not good at math (e.g., he recently said, “subtraction is tougher than addition").

Thanks to AA, it's actually 50%, or divide the required effort by 2.

Kchiker said...

"Let me try this again, but make a few changes:

Obama was addressing the graduates at Whitebread College, which is an all-male and historically white college."

How quickly we forget the reason why there are historically black colleges. No matter. It obviously has something to do with the viciousness of people who don't look like me.

wyo sis said...

Obama is a person with no self-awareness.
Lots of selfishness, self-involvement, self-esteem, and self-aggrandizement though.

Michael Haz said...

He defeated white guys, twice, to be come President of the United States. And still the whining continues non-stop.

I ma incredible pissed at the half of him that is white. I expected better than this from him.

pm317 said...

oh, I see.. he was telling them the good stuff, how to be. Next time he might teach them how they should run Chicago or the govt.

Michael Haz said...

How quickly we forget the reason why there are historically black colleges.

How easily we forget the demands that all segments of modern society reflect diversity and integration.

Nomennovum said...

LOL, Kchiker. Past racism is always a valid excuse for current racism.

Illuninati said...
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AllenS said...

I also think that the Congressional Black Caucus is racist. None of them look like me, and now that I think about it, none of you look like me either.

CEO-MMP said...

He also bitched about people looking with suspicion at young muzzie males.

Maybe if they'd stop blowing stuff up?

Illuninati said...

Obama said:
"he said. “Nobody cares how tough your upbringing was. Nobody cares if you suffered some discrimination.”"

I used to care a great deal about discrimination against black people. Now I realize that most American blacks are just as bad racists or even worse than most white people. There is reason for white people to avoid many of the feral young people coming out of the ghettoes. They are dangerous.

In Africa the situation is entirely different. The black people I met there were generally very open and accepting of foreigners.

ThomasD said...

" the reason why there are historically black colleges."


How are we ever to get beyond racism if we don't keep living it?

CEO-MMP said...

And he said something about not worrying how much money you make.

Says the guy hosting the private all celeb parties and more fancy dinner parties in a year than W. had in 8, who sends his kids to a fancy resort in the Bahamas and to a ski resort in the same week...yeah, whatfugginever.

Scott M said...

In Africa the situation is entirely different. The black people I met there were generally very open and accepting of foreigners.

I forget the name, but there was a documentary that followed American blacks that had emigrated to Africa. If I remember correctly, the Africans weren't all that tolerant of American-born blacks.

Astro said...

I've decided Obama suffers from Munchausen by proxy Syndrome.

Illuninati said...

Scott M said:
"I forget the name, but there was a documentary that followed American blacks that had emigrated to Africa. If I remember correctly, the Africans weren't all that tolerant of American-born blacks."

Could it have been because of the rotten attitude the American blacks took with them?

AllenS said...
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Michael said...

This was a good speech with a message the president should have been pounding on for the last half decade.

Michael said...

This was a good speech with a message the president should have been pounding on for the last half decade.

AllenS said...

Africans aren't all that tolerant of American-born blacks in this country either.

edutcher said...

Choom is the worst thing to happen to young black males since the Democrat Party.

"Growing up, I made quite a few myself," Obama said. "Sometimes I wrote off my own failings as just another example of the world trying to keep a black man down. I had a tendency to make excuses for me not doing the right thing."

So, uh, what's changed?

BTW, was all the privilege that was heaped upon you by your grandmother just another example of the world trying to pull a white man up?

Nothing would have done this clown more good than to skip college for a couple of hitches in the United States Army.

(yes, sir; no, sir, no excuse, sir)

Chip Ahoy said...

The speech is significantly rewritten. The original version centered mostly on not listening to the voices of tribalism. <-- contains nearly 2% of tru fax, contents settle during transit, so don't complain about the gap of air at the top of the packaged product.

Gahrie said...

"Obama was addressing the graduates at Morehouse College, which is an all-male and historically black college.

Shouldn't they be doing outreach and lowering admission standards for whites in the name of diversity?

Gahrie said...

"I forget the name, but there was a documentary that followed American blacks that had emigrated to Africa. If I remember correctly, the Africans weren't all that tolerant of American-born blacks."


Could have something to do with an earlier group of American born Blacks who moved to Africa...look up Liberia.

EMD said...

This might be his best speech in awhile. Too bad it was wasted on this particular audience.

Big Mike said...

How quickly we forget the reason why there are historically black colleges. No matter. It obviously has something to do with the viciousness of people who don't look like me.

Yup. If you're a white guy, Kchiker, try walking down any street in the south side of Chicago. Make sure you have your affairs in order.

The question is not whether there was once a need for black colleges. The question is whether in the 21st century there is still a need for black colleges. Or is it time and past time to close down Howard and Morehouse and Grambling and a number of other historically black colleges.

AprilApple said...

In contrast, here's Bruce Benson's speech to 2013 Grads at CU Denver:

As president, I provide brief remarks at each CU commencement ceremony. I understand the value of brevity in my talk and don't want to detract from some of the great commencement speakers we have had over the years (including the wonderful actress Julie Andrews, who spoke at this year's ceremony on our Boulder campus). Yet I also want to share with graduates some of the thoughts that have helped me throughout my life.
I tell graduates to listen to others and make sure you hear all sides of the story. Your ideas may not be the best.
You can accomplish a lot more if you don't care who gets credit. In every decision, watch for unintended consequences. Stay focused on what is important and finish what you start.
If you make a mistake or a bad decision, admit it, apologize, fix it as fast as you can and move on.
When you make an agreement, make sure both sides are happy. Don't always try to get the advantage.
Seize opportunities as they come along. If you have a life plan, don't miss opportunities that may not fit exactly in your plan.
People want leaders – if you see a void, fill it. When you become a leader, be inclusive and open. Try to listen more than you talk. Hire great, trustworthy people and work as a team. Treat everyone with respect. Always lead by example and do the right thing no matter how tough.
Be generous with your time and, when possible, with your money. And be sure to remember your alma mater.
Contribute to your community, volunteer for projects you care about. You will do good and it will make you feel really good.
I believe strongly in each of these principles, which have helped guide me since my own graduation from CU-Boulder in 1964. But perhaps the most important thing I share with graduates comes at the end of my talk.
I tell them that in the end, your honesty, your word, your reputation and your integrity are all that you have – don't lose them.
And don't forget, the harder you work, the luckier you'll get. Congratulations to the class of 2013.


Notice he didn't use the Obama "I I I I I I I MEMEMEME" template.

AprilApple said...

"Yet Obama acknowledged that “the bitter legacies of slavery and segregation” have not vanished, that discrimination still exists."


Discrimination against the government mob(D) is unacceptable and will be met with swift justice and intimidation.

Scott M said...
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Scott M said...

You have to give him some credit. Kudos where kudos are due and all of that. I'm a bit surprised that he mentioned that the young in India and China were preparing to compete with us despite having started with less than the members of his audience. That's a bit of a hallelujah moment.

Telling them that they have to work twice as hard because their black = boilerplate. Tell them that there's going to be increasing competition from India and China = boilerplate.

Telling them that other people who started with less and faced more discrimination...why, admitting either of those two things to a black audience is a gravity shift of epic proportions. I imagine the offices of the NAACP and the CBC are booming with How-dare-he's this morning.

Amartel said...

Too late in the day for a Sister Souljah (speaking truth to black people) moment? Would he be saying these things if he didn't need to reassure white libs that he's in charge?

EMD said...

Or is it time and past time to close down Howard and Morehouse and Grambling and a number of other historically black colleges.


Closing black colleges is pretty low on my priority list right now. They're ... dare I say ... irrelevant!

lemondog said...

I had a tendency to make excuses for me...

Now he just deflects blame unto others.

Any IRS 'joking?'

William said...

It was a good speech. Obama gives good speeches. He's also very good at running up to the podium. There's always a bounce to his step. He looks very energetic. ..When historians speak of Presidents who gave good speeches and looked fit and energetic, his name will be mentioned prominently. He needs some work on all the other stuff, however.

Chef Mojo said...

Morehouse is one of the "Black Ivy" schools for the Upper Tens. It's not like they're hoovering up poor blacks up off the streets to give them an education. It's always been a school for the black upper and upper middle class. Very much a legacy school. Obama is solidifying his Upper Ten cred.

Might have had more of an impact at Virginia State or Hampton.

lemondog said...

Anyone count the use of 'I' 'me' 'myself'......?

elkh1 said...

"I had a tendency to make excuses for me not doing the right thing.”

"Had"?

David said...

Finally!

I wish he had been pounding this message from the get go.

I commend him for this.

There's lots I don't like about Obama's performance but this is not the time to trot that out.

Keep it up, Mr. President.

David said...

Lots of sour grapes in this comment thread. Example:

Chef Mojo said...
Morehouse is one of the "Black Ivy" schools for the Upper Tens. It's not like they're hoovering up poor blacks up off the streets to give them an education. It's always been a school for the black upper and upper middle class. Very much a legacy school. Obama is solidifying his Upper Ten cred.

Might have had more of an impact at Virginia State or Hampton.


Morehouse is MLK's school. What better place to make such a speech?

Curious George said...

Obama said that too many young black men make “bad choices.”

Yeah, voting Democratic.

Methadras said...

Fuck you Mr. President. You can die in a fire, you traitorous SOB. You're levels of plausible deniability are as transparent as you ability to lie. You are either incompetent or a liar. I choose both because its apparent that you are.

Methadras said...

Matthew Sablan said...

That's an odd message to be giving to people who already know that.


No it isn't. It's confirmation bias and it's the worst kind of apparatchik instruction methodology. In effect he is going to an already observant and favorable audience and giving them their daily instructions to go forth and promote. It's blatant indoctrination. The inculcation has been in root for decades.

Shanna said...

Or is it time and past time to close down Howard and Morehouse and Grambling and a number of other historically black colleges.

I don't know about Moorehouse, but everyone I met at Howard was super nice and Grambling has an awesome band. I'm pretty sure you can go to those schools if you are white so I don't really see the problem.

phx said...

Obama is a person with no self-awareness.
Lots of selfishness, self-involvement, self-esteem, and self-aggrandizement though.


Just came in to lay a crap without addressing the issue he was addressing or the topic under consideration, eh?

phx said...

“Nobody cares how tough your upbringing was. Nobody cares if you suffered some discrimination.”

That's a message everyone needs to get through their heads. You can't swing a cat without hitting a victim - well, I mean a victim of something other than being hit by a cat.

ricpic said...

Obama's love for blacks is so great that he's hellbent on practicing tough love on 'em by importing and legalizing millions of immigrant job competitors. That'll make blacks up their game!

jr565 said...

Kchiker wrote:
How quickly we forget the reason why there are historically black colleges. No matter. It obviously has something to do with the viciousness of people who don't look like me.


Lets not forget that govt forced integration at the point of a gun. In the new world of integrated schools, the historic black colleges and women's colleges are throwbacks to a racist past.
Would you have a problem with a historic white college?
Why or why not?

Kchiker said...

The point of the gun was indeed used to allow safe passage on students to their educational destination. So to that extent the integration was "forced",

Other than Morehouse and colleges like it, aren't all colleges in the US historically white?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but there seems to be a lot of whining and self-victimization at play in these comments.

Show me...on the doll...where Morehouse college touched you. Next you will be whining that they haven't filled the tunnels of the Underground Railroad since its a throwback to a racist past.

phx said...

Show me...on the doll...where Morehouse college touched you.

ROFLMAO

AllenS said...

This is from the Minnesota DailyUniversity (of Minnesota) has a rich black history
...
we’ve barely had a taste of winter, it is already February. Obviously, this is the month of Valentine’s Day, but it is also Black History Month....

Greg Anderson, a former student of the University and member of black fraternity Omega Psi Phi was a part of the Takeover. Anderson says he remembers that time very clearly. “It was a very radical time, not only for the U, but also for the country.” He spoke about how the students knew what they wanted from the University and they weren’t going to stop until they got it. “We stayed there at Morrill Hall and camped out.” He was proud to note the progress that came as a result of the radical activism that took place on our campus at that time.

But our black history started even prior to the Morrill Hall Takeover. I talked to professor Walt Jacobs, department chairman of the University’s African Studies program, who informed me that the first black students to graduate from the University did so in 1882.


There probably was more integration going on than people know about. This is but one example.

AReasonableMan said...

The comments in this thread were a cesspool until a few rational voices stepped up. In this speech Obama is doing exactly what conservatives say he doesn't do enough of and still he is the worst person in the world. Get a grip.

Sam L. said...

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

n.n said...

Obama says one thing and does another. It's unfortunate that he does not accept his own advice.

Scott M said...

Morehouse is MLK's school. What better place to make such a speech?

Better Morehouse than in front of that creepy, Chinese-made MLK monument in DC.

Michael Haz said...

He might have been talking about his golf game.

pduggie said...

"Nobody cares!" -> "You're on your own"

Chip S. said...

In this speech Obama is doing exactly what conservatives say he doesn't do enough of and still he is the worst person in the world.

So true.

Here we have this very fine speech--no, make that an excellent speech--and the wingnuts still harp on what the man's actually done in his 4+ years as president.

Charlie Brown must never doubt Lucy's good intentions w/ that football.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
and the wingnuts still harp on what the man's actually done in his 4+ years as president.


Which would be to steadily extract us from two self-defeating wars and oversee a steady improvement in the economy after the worst economic meltdown since the great depression. In this second goal he has greatly improved on the performance of both his predecessor and Europe, which would be our most directly comparable cohort.

I don't think Obama is a great president but the country will be in better shape when he leaves office than when he arrived. Maybe he deserves some credit maybe none, but what he doesn't deserve from anyone who voted for Bush is the kind of contempt evident in this thread. You could put Obama up against Bush from now until eternity and the American public will vote for Obama every time. Results matter, not just ideology.

Chip S. said...

Which would be to steadily extract us from two self-defeating wars...

The Iraq "surge" peaked in November 2007 and ended in July 2008. The reduction in forces there under Obama followed the trend started at the end of 2007. Nothing about it was initiated by him.

As for Afghanistan, troop levels rose dramatically under Obama, but again that followed a path initiated under Bush.

Handy, annotated pictures here.

In evaluating Obama's economic policy, you say Europe is our closest comp. I say it's Canada.

In which case, Obama's policies have sucked. Objectively.

phx said...

Without an indicatd source charts and stats are completely useless.

phx said...

With a source they can be assessed.

AReasonableMan said...

Unemployment is one indicator of economic performance and it is performing worse than most other indicators, which is why we hear so much about it. Many other indicators are doing much better. Canada is not a good comparison. Like Australia it is small with a resources based economy at a time of a China led boom in resources. If you compare Canada to the main resource producing states in the US I suspect it would under-perform. The only reasonable comparison in terms of size, economic mix and maturity is the EU, although the US has more favorable demographics, which helps its relative performance.

All the graph really shows is that the recession was deeper in the US than Canada. The rate of recovery of employment from the lowest point is about the same. The line indicating the stimulus is irrelevant. Canada's government also undertook stimulatory measures, as did most governments in the immediate aftermath of the financial meltdown.

The broader point is that the country is definitely headed in the right direction with one glaring economic problem, the rapid rise in health care costs. The rate of rise has fallen under Obama but he has not solved the overall problem. Even here, however, he has outperformed his predecessor, which is a relevant comparison.

AReasonableMan said...

With respect to the wars, we still have a significant number of voices on the right bitchin' and moanin' about Obama's failure to go to war in Syria. It is to his credit that he hasn't started another war despite constantly being called weak by useless fuckers like Lindsay Graham.

In Afghanistan the mission was finally completed under Obama's command, Bin Laden was killed. I personally can't see what else could reasonably be achieved in that hell-hole.

I agreed with the minor intervention in Libya because Gadaffi had clearly sponsored terrorism that lead to the loss of American lives and virtually everyone in the region hated him, reducing, though obviously not entirely eliminating, potential blow-back.

Chip S. said...

Without an indicatd source charts and stats are completely useless.

You should be able to find stuff on the internet all by yourself.

wyo sis said...

When Obama was enjoying the protection of the media conservatives pointed out illegal activity on the part of his administration and we were patted rather firmly on the head and told to run along now.

Even the press has pulled it's skirts up out of the slime and the left is having a hard time finding a meme.

Now that there are multiple scandals and crisis we're being accused of hollering wolf for 4 years.
Show us proof!
I'm thinking of taking up knitting.

Chip S. said...

The best reason to compare unemployment rates is that differences in them across countries are among the best indicators of policy efficiency. The main complaint cons have had against Obama is the way Obamacare and assorted other policies have distorted labor markets. Which they certainly seem to have done.

But let's address this claim that Canada is some sort of natural-resource-intensive economy compared to the super-advanced US.

Pct. of Labor Force in Services:

Canada 76, US 79

Pct. in Mfg. + Construction: Canada 19, US 20

Pct. in Agriculture: Canada 2, US 1

(The remaining 3 pct. in Canada is classified as "other".)

source: CIA World Factbook

So, not exactly crazily noncomparable.

And somehow, Canada's recovered w/o being pulled by the world's "engine of growth" and largest trading partner.

Amartel said...

Heh, Madame Defarge wuz here.
Creepy associations, though.
Personally, I prefer a good trebucheting.

Chip S. said...

But as a final comment here, I'd like to point out that this whole discussion of Obama's economic policies--while always useful--is pretty far off the point of the thread, which has to do w/ his governing style vs. this nice little speech.

He ran a shamefully divisive campaign, based on half-truths, mudslinging, and--as we're learning now--massive lies and coverups. His minions have accused tea partiers of racism on the basis of zero evidence. In fact, it's regularly intimated that just about all opposition to him is motivated by an unwillingness to see the First Black President succeed. He has not, to my knowledge, ever asked his supporters to rein in this type of criticism. In cases like Trayvon Martin he has not hesitated to stir the muddy waters of racial resentment and suspicion, and as the facts have emerged he's made no effort to walk back his ill-considered remarks.

He is the ultimate "us" vs. "them" guy, who seems not to understand that after an election you're supposed to govern, and not continue to campaign.

Now that it looks like his magic might be wearing off, what do you know? Suddenly he's rehired whoever it was who wrote his 2004 Dem convention speech.

Pardon some of us if we're just a tad skeptical.

Cedarford said...

AReasonableMan said...
With respect to the wars, we still have a significant number of voices on the right bitchin' and moanin' about Obama's failure to go to war in Syria. It is to his credit that he hasn't started another war despite constantly being called weak by useless fuckers like Lindsay Graham.

This is a time when the vile Neocons, the Samantha Powers do-gooder humanitarian interventionist crowd, and the rah-rah militarists that see 16 places on the world just crying out for Heroes With Boots on the Ground or "cakewalk surgical bombing" solving all problems have failed in the face of reality.
There will be no monuments built by the Grateful Freedom Lovers! of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya to the American Heroes that built their nations and gave them Democracy and all the Precious Western Rights!

All that has turned out to be crap.

Recognize that part of the reason for it - the nation-building crap, the US as the "essential nation with unlimited money, resources, and willingness to shed its kids blood to help others "be free!" - was a hopeful strategy that assumed other cultures would act like the postwar Asians and Europeans did, post 1945. And they don't. And past "do-gooder" babble, part of it was to help stabilize the world and remove dangerous people so we wouldn't have to fight WWIII.

That failed and liberals and progressive Jews that helped kill the interventionist impulse with Lawfare and demonizing America, Bush.....have to understand there is already a Plan B should Syria, Iran, Egypt, Turkey, and the Gulf States get nukes along with the Pakis.
Things get existential - all their nice little laws no longer apply. Muzzies get roasted and blasted.

Plan C is needed.
Because 1st use of Islamist nukes on the US, Israel, Europe, Russia - and Plan B is on.


In Afghanistan the mission was finally completed under Obama's command, Bin Laden was killed. I personally can't see what else could reasonably be achieved in that hell-hole.

What bullshit. What "mission accomplished" can be claimed by the Obamites in Afghanistan. Bad as it was under Bush, with more lives lost under Obama.

I agreed with the minor intervention in Libya because Gadaffi had clearly sponsored terrorism that lead to the loss of American lives and virtually everyone in the region hated him, reducing, though obviously not entirely eliminating, potential blow-back.

Ghadafi had renounced terrorism, had revealed and destroyed his WMD program.
We decided to sabotage him like we sabotaged Mubarak because the idiot Neocons and idiot Samantha Powers/Rice/Hillary humanitarians joined in a perverted alliance that saw a wonderful "Arab Spring" would be ushered in.
Same assholes want to do regime change in Syria and see rabid Salafist Jihadis replace Assad in running that place.

phx said...

You should be able to find stuff on the internet all by yourself.

Heh. I've seen your bullshit Alex Jones sources before, Chip S.

Chip S. said...

With all due respect, you're an idiot, phx.

phx said...

With all due respect, you're an idiot, phx.

That means a lot coming from you.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
He is the ultimate "us" vs. "them" guy


I don't think the republicans are in much of a position to complain here. The Willie Horten and welfare queen lines of argument can hardly be considered inclusive. And Romney's closed door comments were equally divisive.

Pardon some of us if we're just a tad skeptical.

It is always wise to be skeptical, which is why it is useful to look at results. Has Obama brought the country closer together? No, he has failed on this. You blame him, I would say the problems are more broadspread but he has clearly not achieved anything. He has done better in improving relations with Europe, the ME not so much.

But this goes both ways. The working class and lower middle class have done very poorly since the Reagan revolution and Bush's economic policies were, based on the results, disastrous. The constant attack on Obama's economic policies seems untenable when it is compared to the actual outcomes of Republican policies. The tyranny of perception over reality in economics was illustrated for me following the death of Thatcher. She had supposedly remade Britain into an economic miracle, but GDP had not done significantly better than France, and this was with the advantage of north sea oil.

AReasonableMan said...

Cedarford, as usual I kind of agree with a lot of what you say. With respect to Bin Laden I don't think the US had much choice other than to kill him if at all possible. It sends a strong message that you are better off attacking Spain or France, not us. We had to respond in some strongly symbolic fashion. I still don't understand why this wasn't the main focus of Bush and Cheney.

This being said, your broader point that we are still just digging a hole for ourselves in the ME, with the inevitable blow-back is inarguable. If I was to point to Obama's greatest failings it would be his inability to make more progress in extracting us from this mess.

On Gadaffi, I think you are underestimating the level of hostility in Europe to this guy. We really only honored our NATO obligations. The Europeans viewed him as a threat and were determined to get rid of him, as were a surprising number of Muslim countries. The US didn't lead from behind, it was just behind on that one.

Paddy O said...

No matter what you think of the President, he still does have a significant place in American history. And from what it sounds like, it sounds like he's willing to use that place for some good. The message that there are those in the world who have experienced much more oppression and have broken out of it, is the exact message that needs to be said. Yes, there's still racism, but at a certain point there's also responsibility to take advantage of the opportunities, amazing opportunities that really are present. There are significant amount of resources able to pay a way through every field and every level of education for those who are in historically oppressed people groups. It's amazing how many scholarships and fellowships I encountered that were out there, and often remained unclaimed, maybe because someone blamed racism for not even trying.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
The best reason to compare unemployment rates is that differences in them across countries are among the best indicators of policy efficiency.


You are going to have to expand on this. As far as I can see it is just one of many indicators of economic health, like GDP, inflation, the stock market, housing prices, balance of trade etc. I can't understand why you see it as the sole useful measure of the effectiveness of Obama's economic policies.

But let's address this claim that Canada is some sort of natural-resource-intensive economy compared to the super-advanced US.

Here I think you are wrong. Resource extraction is an extremely efficient way of pumping up an economy, so its effect is not well reflected in raw employment numbers. Another way to think of this is what would Canada's balance of trade with China look like without natural resources? It would be a sinkhole. Also, the Canadians seem to regularly fret that resource extraction has crowded out more advanced economic activity, much the same as it has in Australia. I agree with them. Resource extraction is like meth for advanced economies, everything seems better until your teeth fall out.

Amartel said...

"In this speech Obama is doing exactly what conservatives say he doesn't do enough of and still he is the worst person in the world."

No he is not. Obama talking about himself and rolling out a standard array of boring progressive redistribution bromides is not what conservatives say he doesn't do enough of. Sorry, but no.

Title of article: "Obama gets personal about race and manhood in Morehouse College speech."
In other news, sun rises in east and sets in west again.

"We've got no time for excuses." The "no excuses" message, like everything else in any given Obama speech, is totally Obamacentric. Apparently, in past times WE had time for excuses. No more! The king of all black men needs these grads to get with the program and understand that as long as he's in charge there's to be no more whining. Even while still paying obeisance and praying to the Grievance God of everlasting and infinite discrimination and oppression. Can I get an amen?

jr565 said...

A reasonable man wrote:
With respect to the wars, we still have a significant number of voices on the right bitchin' and moanin' about Obama's failure to go to war in Syria. It is to his credit that he hasn't started another war despite constantly being called weak by useless fuckers like Lindsay Graham.

In Afghanistan the mission was finally completed under Obama's command, Bin Laden was killed. I personally can't see what else could reasonably be achieved in that hell-hole.

I agreed with the minor intervention in Libya because Gadaffi had clearly sponsored terrorism that lead to the loss of American lives and virtually everyone in the region hated him, reducing, though obviously not entirely eliminating, potential blow-back.

you had me until you brought up your support of Libya, which undermines the Reston your argument completely. Libya had already been tamed by the Bush administration and given up its weapons programs. Syria, meanwhile has been an active thorn in our side since our invasion of Iraq, and,working with Iran actively working against our interests.
That you would support a limited war in Libya, but then call Lindsay Abraham a useless fucker for suggesting war with Syria, just means you are drinking the Obama kool aid.

How about, if we applied the same standard that we did for our intervention in Libya to Syria. I think you'll find that Syria has killed even more of its people, AND used gas against its people. So, why then, if not an outright invasion,why not a limited war, like the one done in Libya?
I think you've even sucking on Obamas tit for too long.

jr565 said...

AReasonable Man wrote:
"On Gadaffi, I think you are underestimating the level of hostility in Europe to this guy. We really only honored our NATO obligations. The Europeans viewed him as a threat and were determined to get rid of him, as were a surprising number of Muslim countries. The US didn't lead from behind, it was just behind on that one."


So its ok if we go to a limited war if its in the interest of Europe but not in our own interest? And why was it in their interest? oil had nothing to do with it? I thought the left was all about no blood for oil.

jr565 said...

Here's the Nation (a publication I don't link to often) making the case that the Intervention in Libya was all about the oil:

Obama & NATO's war for oil

So, its ok to she's blood for oil, but only when Europe wants the oil? And the reason cited asto why WE would get involved was because of how Qadaffi was dealing with his rebels. Here, OBama adopted an ultra Bush freedom position, about how we couldn't stand by and watch the crisis unfold:he said " Gaddafi was suppressing his people and that “left unchecked, we have every reason to believe that Gaddhafi would commit atrocities against his people. Many thousands could die. A humanitarian crisis would ensue. The entire region could be destabilized, endangering many of our allies and partners. The calls of the Libyan people for help would go unanswered. The democratic values that we stand for would be overrun. Moreover, the words of the international community would be rendered hollow.”


So under that standard I think you can see why Lindsay Graham is calling him a weakling for not intervening in Syria, since of course the situation is far worse there than in Libya.overthrowing qadaffi was so important we could do away with the war Powers act, yet for Syria, even suggesting we should be tough brands you a fucker.
Even if we apply the Obama standard for invasion, there is active reason to invade Syria. Not saying that we should therefore do it, but rather that Obama is a complete hypocrite. As are you A Reasonable Man for trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to bash the warmongering repubs, but then when it comes to the wars of this president, its like "well yeah, the guy was bad of course we need to take him out".