May 10, 2013

"I was expelled from Syracuse University for comments that I posted on Facebook."

"Syracuse University School of Education graduate student Matthew Werenczak was just trying to finish his masters degree early when he decided to take a summer course that involved tutoring at a local middle school..."
On the first day of Werenczak's tutoring program at Danforth Middle School, he and another Syracuse student were introduced to their students by a member of the Concerned Citizens Action Program (CCAP). They happened to be the only two white people in the room. Shortly after the introduction, in the presence of Werenczak and the other white student teacher, the CCAP member, who is black, said that he thought that the city schools should hire more teachers from historically black colleges.

"This [comment] offended me, as well as the other student teacher in the room," says Werenczak in FIRE's latest video. "It just seemed inappropriate considering that the two student teachers happened to be from Syracuse and a not a historically black college."

So Werenczak took to Facebook to write about the incident.

"Just making sure we're okay with racism," wrote Werenczak. "It's not enough I'm ... tutoring in the worst school in the city, I suppose I oughta be black or stay in my own side of town."

"I was kind of trying to see if my friends or other peers, classmates would have a similar reaction to what I had," says Werenczak about the reason for his posting the comment....
Via Instapundit.  Video at the links.

130 comments:

Matthew Sablan said...

Mountains, molehills, how to make one out of the other. It wasn't said as a slight, he over-reacted.

He needs to deal.

John Lynch said...

Another thing you can't talk about.

I don't think I should be writing on the internet at all.

Matthew Sablan said...

Now: Should he have been expelled? I dunno; I wouldn't have expelled him, but I have no idea what Syracuse's rules are, his history is, etc.

Mitchell the Bat said...

That's a nice-looking room he's in but he's got to get that crap out of his hair.

So far as the expulsion goes, I don't believe for a second it's that simple.

ricpic said...

Blacks should get their wish for complete segregation. And then live with the outcome..

Tibore said...

It's not okay to hire by race... except when it is okay to hire by race.

Got it.

AprilApple said...

I heard an AD somewhere for an all black/ black only dating service.

Just flip that around to "all white".. and savor.

Somehow, in the age of Obama, racism originating in the black community is just A-OK and should not be questioned.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Can someone explain to me how his comments on his Facebook account harmed Syracuse or anyone else?

SGT Ted said...

That's like a white person saying to a new black hire that they could have found plenty of qualified white people to do the job, so why is he there in the white neighborhood.

MadisonMan said...

but he's got to get that crap out of his hair.

Agreed. Incongruous with the suit and tie. He needs a different shirt too -- to look more professional.

Is this a person they were trying to expel for other reasons, is Syracuse for some reason hyper-sensitive? Too many questions. It seems to me, though, that the CCAP comments would be better suited to a one-on-one conversation after he or she has known the student teachers. It could be these are the best student teachers CCAP member will ever see, race notwithstanding. Too bad CCAP member's own views prohibit him or her from ever learning that.

CEO-MMP said...

I understand why he was offended, and I understand why he wrote about it on FB.

I don't know as I'd have been offended (would have to do with context).

I don't really see how 'Cuse gets away with kicking him out like that, glad to see they eventually folded.

Let the lesson continue: social media is not your friend--not now and not in the future.

Tank said...

the CCAP member, who is black, said that he thought that the city schools should hire more teachers from historically black colleges.


And Tank thinks the NBA should hire more players from historically white colleges. Maybe even have a WMVP.

That said, why'd the guy get all "offended." Typical PC BS. Has he never heard anything like this before? Too bad he did not understand what "having a conversation about race" meant.

Ann Althouse said...

"Can someone explain to me how his comments on his Facebook account harmed Syracuse or anyone else?"

He was placed in that middle school by the university, which entailed the university's reputation and affected its relationship with the people at the school. Somebody there — a member of the Concerned Citizens Action Program — made a remark that implied that it's too bad none of the teacher/role models for the black kids was black. His approach to handling the awkwardness (and slight suggestion of racial discrimination against white teachers) was to speak publicly in a way that the university thought was not diplomatic and not indicative of good judgment. He was (I think) given an option to write a paper or take some instruction on dealing with diversity problems in education.

Jay said...

There are leftists who actually believe blacks can't be racist.

Amartel said...

This guy was going to be (but for FIRE) expelled for engaging in free speech-a reasonable inquiry on his own Facebook page about possible (I'd say probable) racism-but he should "deal"?

Jay said...

How did Syracuse get the post from Facebook?

SJ said...

Very, very weird.

Did he ask the CCAP member for clarification?

The intended meaning could have been one of:

(a) The CCAP would better serve its target students with black student-teachers than with white student-teachers

(b) That particular worker wanted to see more student-teachers from historically-black colleges, because he's an alumnus of one of them...or something else not related to the dominant skin-color at those colleges

(c) The CCAP had set a goal of bringing more student-teachers from historically-black colleges, and this staff member was lamenting his inability to meet that goal

There are several possible meanings, not all of them racial.

And even if the intended meaning was racial, why is he ejected from Syracuse U for drawing attention to it?

phx said...

Can someone explain to me how his comments on his Facebook account harmed Syracuse or anyone else?

It sounds like his comments were harming Danforth Middle School. Since they were hosting the SU Education program... well, you can see how that might put some others in a spot.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Althouse-I understand the university's position, according to your interpretation, but I do not find it persuasive or agree with it. I am glad that he called the FIRE. Because he is affiliated with Syracuse's program, that does not remove his right to have and express his own opinions under his own name, unless he signed a contract indicating such, in which case such a requirement is wrong.

Nathan Alexander said...

The future must not belong to those who slander grievance/identity politics.

CEO-MMP said...

ricpic said...

Blacks should get their wish for complete segregation. And then live with the outcome.."

The small liberal arts college I went to was pretty white. Where I grew up was pretty white, the same as most of the other students.

The black students that were there weren't special, they were ordinary college kids, dorms, frats the whole bit.

In my second or third year there was an uptick in the number of black students, which seemed like a good thing.

Suddenly though, all the new black students started holding black power rallies (complete with the salute) and demanding their own segregated dorm space.

Which they got.

I voiced my concern to my faculty adviser and the Dean of Students. Imagine, coming all the way to librul ahhts college in the modern world to be segregated. By themselves.

I was, of course, labeled a racist.



I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

By the way, posting about work on Facebook is almost always a stupid thing to do and I hope he learned that lesson.

Henry said...

I personally think "worst school in the city" was his least advisable comment. The school is his employer. The CCAP person is not.

But glad it worked out for him in the end. FIRE does good work.

phx said...

By the way, posting about work on Facebook is almost always a stupid thing to do and I hope he learned that lesson.

+1

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Phx--some might say that the comments of the CCAP member harmed Danforth Middle School.

Michael K said...

That'll teach those whiteys to try to teach at a black school which should have only black teachers because, you know SHUT UP !

phx said...

Phx--some might say that the comments of the CCAP member harmed Danforth Middle School.

SU probably has less influence over the CCAP. In any case, we haven't heard if the CCAPs remarks were or weren't addressed by the program's organizers.

CEO-MMP said...

@Ann (who said this: His approach to handling the awkwardness (and slight suggestion of racial discrimination against white teachers) was to speak publicly in a way that the university thought was not diplomatic and not indicative of good judgment. He was (I think) given an option to write a paper or take some instruction on dealing with diversity problems in education.")

According to the write up at the link, he did what Syracuse asked him to do and they still wouldn't readmit him, that's when he went to FIRE.

Also, when you say he said "publicly"...how do you figure that? He put it on *his* FB page. Unless his page is set to public, it was meant to be only seen by his friends and family.

Is that "public"? Can that argument really be made?

It's not a gotcha question, I really don't know. It's one of the reasons I don't have a FB page or a twitter account or any of the other godawful social media stuff.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Matthew Sablan,

"It wasn't said as a slight"? To what purpose was it said, then? Obviously the point was that it really sucks that these two student teachers are white, while the students they will be teaching are all black. It would be so much better if the teachers were black, too. I mean, think of the photo ops!

Apart from the fact that I haven't bothered with my Facebook page in about a year, I can see myself doing exactly what he did, and I applaud FIRE for getting him back in the program.

Alex said...

If a black student posted the same on Facebook do you think he would be expelled?

We are living the horror of liberal double-standards.

SteveR said...

Well he shouldn't have found the comment so radical that he felt compelled to tell the whole world about it. Wake up! This is like noticing the sun rises in the east every day.

Maybe he will be part of a process of turning the system in a more resonable direction but at what price? He would be better off yelling at the mirror in his bathroom.

Shanna said...

He was (I think) given an option to write a paper or take some instruction on dealing with diversity problems in education.

Dear lord.

I too wondered how the school got the facebook post. Did someone rat him our or does he have his bosses on facebook? If you are going to use facebook to be unpc you better keep that stuff private.

CEO-MMP said...

SteveR said...

Well he shouldn't have found the comment so radical that he felt compelled to tell the whole world about it. Wake up! This is like noticing the sun rises in the east every day. "


He didnt' tell the whole world. He told his FB friends to see what they thought.

Wake up! indeed.

AllenS said...

The most racist people that I've ever encountered were black.

Amartel said...

I looked on Wikipedia - there are no historically black colleges or universities in NY.
Helpful info to know when you're interpreting the statement "it's too bad we can't get more student teachers from historically black colleges."
Whoever said that knew it was wrong to come right out and wish they had gotten black student teachers - instead of these unkempt white ones.
And how realistic is it that the new student teacher is going to challenge the boss on the first day of work over state-approved institutional racism?

roesch/voltaire said...

While I understand how the student may feel about the comment, I have been in similar incidents, I don't think FB is the place to discuss this. Instead this issue should be taken up with the supervisor of the project to clarify that they still wanted and respected his efforts.

Pogo said...

Just imagine the screaming if anyone says anything not completely pro-gay, once SSM is forced on us.

Free speech is dead.
The Constitution is dead.

Thanks, Boomers!

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

All of this is so tricky. I can sympathize with do-gooders of color, trying to present role models of color to at-risk students of color instead of what maybe seems like a stream of do-gooders of no color, who show up, do-good for a while, and then disappear. I can see how that might make them cynical. For more information, consult the life and work of Geoffrey Canada.

But I still think we should judge people by the content of their character and their abilities, that that should be the standard.

Dante said...

He was (I think) given an option to write a paper or take some instruction on dealing with diversity problems in education.

How incredibly offensive the actions of Syracuse are.

It's OK for some University professor, under the shield of tenure, to say that Bush initiated 9/11 to invade the middle east, but here you have (from your comments), a person speaking the truth being punished, or required to sign up for MC/PC brainwashing.

So much for free thought/expression in Universities. It too falls in the face of MC/PCism.

Dante said...

Alex:

We are living the horror of liberal double-standards.

I would say we are living the horror of liberal axiomatically inconsistent rules, such that the rules are determined by skin color, party affiliation, and other things.

It has to screw up young minds.

Shouting Thomas said...

Thank God, I'm retired.

No more trips to the re-education camp! No more Diversity lectures! No more kissing the principal's ass!

Freedom!

Nathan Alexander said...

We are living the horror of liberal double-standards.

The first time I read that, I thought it said:

We are living the horror of liberal douche standards.

I daresay my mis-reading of it may actually be more accurate and appropriate.

Balfegor said...

Re: AprilApple:

I heard an AD somewhere for an all black/ black only dating service.

Nnn, I'm pretty sure people feel comfortable listing racial preferences in their personals ads. People are still allowed to have racial and ethnic preferences in whom they date and marry. Even Whites can say they prefer caucasians (or even just blondes or gingers or whatever).

RE: the incident in question here, if it's as he described, he showed poor judgment in doing something that would embarass his employer/institution (e.g. exposing their or their partners' racism). If one is part of an organisation, sometimes one just needs to shut up. And if he's shocked by Black racism, he must have been living an astonishingly sheltered life, so this is an important life lesson for him.

On a more mundane note, he shouldn't be wearing a three piece suit with that kind of shirt. I don't think that shirt is even a dress shirt. Also, in the US, you probably shouldn't wear a three piece suit at all when you're making this kind of complaint. In the US, three piece suits are appropriate only for weddings, funerals, family portraits, and the opera.

William said...

You can debate the rights and wrongs of the student teacher and the CCAP member, but they remain just that--debatable. The expulsion of the student, however, was not a debatable issue. It was clearly wrong. The person who decided to expell him will never have to explain the processes of his decision the way this student teacher has been forced to.........."We need to have a conversation about race." And if you say the wrong thing, we will banish you.

Icepick said...

Mr. Werenczak could have avoided the problem by showing up and teaching in black-face. Just remember to do the hands and other exposed skin, too!

wrd9 said...

Racism is alive and well in the black and hispanic community. Here's a couple of examples:

In Washington state, a hispanic principal determined it's racist to eat sandwiches.

Mel Watts, a Democrat from NC, said in 2005 that whites would not vote for a black candidate and should be removed from the democratic process. He also called Ralph Nader "another f**ing arrogant white man". Watts has been recently selected by Obama to be head of the FHFA. What's truly disturbing is the habit of Obama to select obvious racists to head important depts (Holder, Van Jones, Perez, Watts) to further his destructive agenda. For Watts to be selected to the FHFA would mean that the agenda to push substantial principal reductions for mortgages to primarily benefit minorities would be a given. Are you all happy for more redistribution of wealth from the makers to the takers?

Balfegor said...

Re: Misplaced Pants:

All of this is so tricky. I can sympathize with do-gooders of color, trying to present role models of color to at-risk students of color instead of what maybe seems like a stream of do-gooders of no color, who show up, do-good for a while, and then disappear.

Maybe. Honestly, though, I don't really have much sympathy for the idea that your role models have to look like you or come from the same racial/cultural background as you do. Mine didn't.

I Callahan said...

Mountains, molehills, how to make one out of the other. It wasn't said as a slight, he over-reacted. He needs to deal.

Uh, he was expelled, Matthew. For his thoughts. Are you really OK with this?

Your comments are usually some of the most sensible on these threads, but this one really brings your average down considerably.

I Callahan said...

He was (I think) given an option to write a paper or take some instruction on dealing with diversity problems in education.

According to the video, he followed everything the U told him to do, and was still told he could either quit or get expelled.

Icepick said...

Uh, he was expelled, Matthew. For his thoughts.

No, he was expelled for expressing his thoughts. You can get fired from all kinds of jobs for doing that, and for all kinds of different expressed thoughts, too.

Amartel said...

Assuming good faith on the part of the speaker who made the comment "it's too bad we can't get more student teachers from historically black colleges" is a big leap. Under the circums in which the comment was made, eg in front of the student teachers, it's a really big leap.
And the University prioritizes its rep, and the feelings of persons invested in racial double-standards, over the rep of a paying customer. In the face of a ferocious onslaught of ... an inquiry on FB quoting the stmt verbatim.
LAME.

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm a white boy from small town Illinois.

My "role models" when I was a kid were Ernie Banks, the greatest Cub ever, and Muddy Waters, the greatest of the blues musicians.

Didn't hurt me none.

Ann Althouse said...

"Also, when you say he said "publicly"...how do you figure that? He put it on *his* FB page. Unless his page is set to public, it was meant to be only seen by his friends and family."

I don't know the scope of who he was open to on Facebook, but I consider that writing public. There are various choices about how private to be within Facebook.

How did the university find out about it if it wasn't public?

I Callahan said...

By the way, posting about work on Facebook is almost always a stupid thing to do and I hope he learned that lesson.

He wasn't fired from a job, he was EXPELLED from a school. If he had just been removed from the teaching position, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Christ.

I Callahan said...

No, he was expelled for expressing his thoughts. You can get fired from all kinds of jobs for doing that, and for all kinds of different expressed thoughts, too.

So that makes it OK?

Look, this is nonsense. As I said in my prior comment - he wasn't being fired from a job, he was being expelled from his college. A WORLD of difference, especially when colleges claim to pride themselves on free speech (when in fact, they really don't, this case being an example).

Ann Althouse said...

"Althouse-I understand the university's position, according to your interpretation, but I do not find it persuasive or agree with it."

I was only responding to someone who seemed unable to perceive any basis for what the university did, as if it wasn't involved at all. So you in fact do agree with me. I didn't say the university was justified. I didn't take sides. So don't say you disagreed with what I didn't say. It makes it seem as though I've said what I did not.

"I am glad that he called the FIRE. Because he is affiliated with Syracuse's program, that does not remove his right to have and express his own opinions under his own name, unless he signed a contract indicating such, in which case such a requirement is wrong."

It doesn't remove his right. That is true. But the school was trying to teach good judgment, especially for teachers going into the inner city and needing to interact successfully with the concerned citizens there. Students going through a program have to jump through a lot of hoops. How much power should the students have to readjust the hoops? Let's say they don't like the university's teaching on handling diversity as teachers go into inner city neighborhoods. Should students be able to say I resist your diversity training? I don't want to do it because I believe in colorblindness?

Keep in mind that the university only used expulsion as the fallback if he refused to take the remedial diversity training it thought was needed. It caved when he brought in FIRE.

Ann Althouse said...

"And how realistic is it that the new student teacher is going to challenge the boss on the first day of work over state-approved institutional racism?"

A member of the concerned citizens group isn't the boss or the state.

edutcher said...

So much for Freedom of Speech.

And anybody who didn't realize the whole PC racket was about the suppression of it ought to be able to see it now.

Shouting Thomas said...

Thank God, I'm retired.

No more trips to the re-education camp! No more Diversity lectures! No more kissing the principal's ass!


You want medical care?

Chris said...

But the school was trying to teach good judgment...

A school should do that, foremost, by practicing good judgment.

Keep in mind that the university only used expulsion as the fallback if he refused to take the remedial diversity training it thought was needed. It caved when he brought in FIRE.

Except he didn't refuse the remedial training. He completed it, including a psych evaluation.

Expulsion wasn't a fallback; it seems to have been the goal. Syracuse seems to have hoped that he would go away quietly, in shame.

Amartel said...

"The school was trying to teach good judgment"
??
Oh, so that's why they backed down after FIRE got involved. Because "good judgment" depends on who's watching.

Also he wasn't adjusting the hoops or starting a revolution or anything like that. He was asking a question, on FB, does this seem right? Questioning authority now a punishable offense? Kind of like dissent is no longer patriotic.

tiger said...

When Blacks say 'We need to talk about racism'

*What they mean* is that 'they need to talk and Whites need to listen and NEVER respond.'

Utter crap.

And it's just so blatant and similar to these FB 'shares' about how bad men are who hit women.
Agreed.
But NO mention is ever made about women hitting men because well shut up.

And as pointed out: all Black dating service?
No problem.

All White dating service?
Racist.

Amartel said...

"How did the University find out about it if it wasn't public?"
(Facebook page.)

That's funny b/c my first question would be "why is the university, or anyone else other than this guy's friends, trolling his FB page?"

Chip S. said...

Keep in mind that the university only used expulsion as the fallback if he refused to take the remedial diversity training it thought was needed.

Where did you see this? What I heard the guy say in the video was "I did everything they asked," and they still "dragged their heels" in readmitting him.

It caved when he brought in FIRE.

If Syracuse had a defensible reason for its actions, it could have stated it publicly, and not backed down in the face of a little bit of online criticism. The fact that it didn't is pretty revealing.

The guy quotes a university official as telling him that he'd never get a teaching job anywhere in the country b/c they were accusing him of racism. That's racism, not "insubordination" or "bad judgment".

I'm guessing that his big mistake was to describe the worst school in the city as "the worst school in the city."

CEO-MMP said...

Balfegor said...

Re: AprilApple:

I heard an AD somewhere for an all black/ black only dating service.

Nnn, I'm pretty sure people feel comfortable listing racial preferences in their personals ads. People are still allowed to have racial and ethnic preferences in whom they date and marry. Even Whites can say they prefer caucasians (or even just blondes or gingers or whatever)."

True enough--but to say "whites only"? You'd really be okay with that?

It's fine for match or christian mingle or whoever to ask, would it be okay for them to not let black people join their club?

CEO-MMP said...

Ann Althouse said...

"Also, when you say he said "publicly"...how do you figure that? He put it on *his* FB page. Unless his page is set to public, it was meant to be only seen by his friends and family."

I don't know the scope of who he was open to on Facebook, but I consider that writing public. There are various choices about how private to be within Facebook.

How did the university find out about it if it wasn't public?"


Snitches be everywhere?

But yeah, I guess I wouldn't consider his FB public unless it was set that way, but on the other hand I refuse to have an FB page for this reason, so...yeah.

campy said...

*What they mean* is that 'they need to talk and Whites need to listen and NEVER respond.'

"... and then give us more free stuff!"

CEO-MMP said...

@Ann:

you've said a couple of times that he had the option to do some sort of diversity training or something.

Here's what's posted at the youtube vid you linked to:


One reaction Werenczak didn't see coming was an expulsion from the School of Education for the Facebook comments, which the school described as "unprofessional, offensive, and insensitive." The school told Werenczak he could avoid expulsion by voluntarily withdrawing, or he could fulfill several requirements in order to gain a chance of "re-admittance."

When Werenczak fulfilled the requirements and was still not readmitted to the school, he contacted FIRE for help.

"Hours after FIRE took the case public, Syracuse University backed down and I was brought back [into the program] and later graduated."

Amartel said...

Okay I looked around for clarifying stories on the web and it seems, or was implied, in one of the stories that the FB page was some sort of group project, not just this guy's FB page.
Which does not change my opinion. A university of all places should encourage just this sort of inquiry. The more the better.
The same story reports that Syracuse has a terrible free speech track record.

Amartel said...

And quit bugging this guy about his suit. Jesus, people, I don't know about you but I couldn't afford fine threads when I was still in school.

phx said...

A university of all places should encourage just this sort of inquiry. The more the better.

Then you're being a little tone deaf. Here's what we're told he wrote:
"It's not enough I'm ... tutoring in the worst school in the city, I suppose I oughta be black or stay in my own side of town."
That's not the way academic inquiries are usually or should be made.

DrMaturin said...

My son is a student at Syracuse. It's well known that you have to be very careful about what you say there, it's one of the most repressive schools in the country.

X said...

message received!

Nathan Alexander said...

@phx,
That's not the way academic inquiries are usually or should be made.

How should they be made, then?

Oh, and you aren't pulling the false humility "I don't have the credentials to have an opinion" stance this time, huh?

So that raises the question: what credentials do you have to offer an opinion on this local issue that doesn't affect you in any way, but not on the performance of national officials Benghazi which does have an impact on all US residents?

MayBee said...

I love it when groups of tenured people try to ruin other peoples' lives for what they say.

Balfegor said...

And quit bugging this guy about his suit. Jesus, people, I don't know about you but I couldn't afford fine threads when I was still in school.

Just take the vest off. And iron the shirt.

Chip S. said...

I'd say that part of the guy's problem is that he's already been subjected to too much "niceness" indoctrination. What he should've done was to challenge the "too bad these guys aren't from HBCs" remark on the spot. Get in the mofo's face and make him defend, clarify, amend, or withdraw the remark.

But nobody's supposed to do that shit. It's rude. So instead he vented online.

phx said...

So that raises the question: what credentials do you have to offer an opinion on this local issue that doesn't affect you in any way, but not on the performance of national officials Benghazi which does have an impact on all US residents?

I never said you had to have credentials to offer an opinion on anything at Althouse. Never.

edutcher said...

tiger said...

When Blacks say 'We need to talk about racism'

*What they mean* is that 'they need to talk and Whites need to listen and NEVER respond.'


No, what they mean is, "We're going to talk and you sit down and smile, bitch".

cubanbob said...

While I understand how the student may feel about the comment, I have been in similar incidents, I don't think FB is the place to discuss this. Instead this issue should be taken up with the supervisor of the project to clarify that they still wanted and respected his efforts."

RV is correct! The reality is once on the net forever on the net. The lesson is that social media can bite you in the ass. Never publish in your real name anything remotely controversial. Unless you are bullet proof or make a living publishing opinion.

That said, SU should lose its tax exempt and charitable tax status. Taxpayers shouldn't be compelled to subsidize the suppression of other people's express right to free speech.

Pogo said...

White boy bleed a lot.

Nathan Alexander said...

@phx,
I never said you had to have credentials to offer an opinion on anything at Althouse. Never.

Perhaps.

But you did refuse to offer opinions on the Benghazi lies by the Obama administration with a specific citation of not having the credentials to do so.

Literally, you are 100% correct. But you are skilled at lying by omission, and prevaricating by implication.

Larry J said...

Back in 1984, I was under consideration for a math and science teaching position in a predominately black high schoool. I had a degree in math and a physics minor plus a broad science background.

A friend of mine taught at that school and was in attendance when my application came up for discussion. "I refuse to hire any more white people to teach our kids." They hired the wife of a coach instead. She had the proper pigmentation but no background in math or science. This position was to teach an enriched math/science program. You can guess the results.

Jay said...

phx said...
I never said you had to have credentials to offer an opinion on anything at Althouse. Never


Hilarious.

You just said this:
phx said...

I'm not offering objective assessments I'm offering opinions. I don't have enough information to offer "objective assessments" of contemporary international and national politics.

Feel free to tell me what any of your qualifications are.

5/9/13, 9:10 PM


Readers can draw their own conclusions about your selective use of "credentials"

It is also obvious and inarguable that you're an intellectual coward.

Bryan C said...

"That's not the way academic inquiries are usually or should be made."

Yes, because academics are such fragile little snowflakes.

Could you possibly craft a more irrelevant and craven response?

Shanna said...

That's not the way academic inquiries are usually or should be made.

It's exactly the way facebook posts are made. It's not like this was a formal paper, it was a question. A legitimate one, because if the school official was saying to him that he thought they should hire from HBC's, he was telling him indirectly that he wasn't welcome. This guy just went on facebook and said 'message received'.

Hyphenated American said...

See something - say something. There was a clear case of racial discrimination that this kid saw and commented on it, and the university punished him. I be
I've he needs to be reinstated, the university should pay 1 million dollars for pain and suffering, and both the university and the school need to conduct a training for their stuff on racial sensitivity and why racial discrimination is evil.
Oh and one more thing. President Obama should award this kid a medal for his bravery in combating racism.

Hyphenated American said...

See something - say something. There was a clear case of racial discrimination that this kid saw and commented on it, and the university punished him. I be
I've he needs to be reinstated, the university should pay 1 million dollars for pain and suffering, and both the university and the school need to conduct a training for their stuff on racial sensitivity and why racial discrimination is evil.
Oh and one more thing. President Obama should award this kid a medal for his bravery in combating racism.

Shanna said...

"The lesson is that social media can bite you in the ass. "

This is true, but it does not make Syracuse's actions any more defensible.

G Joubert said...

If we are ever going to progress societally on the vexatious race problem, there will have to be MORE honest and open discussion about it, not less.

Balfegor said...

RE: Hyphenated:

See something - say something. There was a clear case of racial discrimination that this kid saw and commented on it, and the university punished him.

Wasn't actual racial discrimination, just verbal expression of racial hostility.

phx said...

But you did refuse to offer opinions on the Benghazi lies by the Obama administration with a specific citation of not having the credentials to do so.

"Benghazi lies" is your term. I said I didn't have enough information to render what EMD called an "objective assessment" of Benghazi. I made a point that there is a difference to claiming an "objective assessment" and claiming an "opinion."

Why are you trolls obsessing over this? Over me? What are you trying to understand or get me to say?

phx said...

Yes, because academics are such fragile little snowflakes.

Heh heh. That's not why you don't frame academic inquiries the way he did.

There's a pedagogical reason, goose.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Maybe. Honestly, though, I don't really have much sympathy for the idea that your role models have to look like you or come from the same racial/cultural background as you do. Mine didn't.

Yes, I agree, but lots of people don't and that complicates these things.

phx said...

It's exactly the way facebook posts are made. It's not like this was a formal paper, it was a question.

Right. I only said that about academic inquiries because some person was defending him on the basis that universities should be encouraging his kind of inquiry. I said that's not how such inquiries should be made.

Amartel said...

That's not the way academic inquiries are usually or should be made."

Actually, that's exactly the way academic inquiries should be made. In a peer-reviewed publication.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

And Althouse, it's not OK for the university to force this kid to sit through a diversity training session.

It's really truly not the end of the world if people say things that others don't like. Even if those people are in your graduate program.

Nathan Alexander said...

@phx,
Why are you trolls obsessing over this? Over me? What are you trying to understand or get me to say?

See craven dishonesty, point out craven dishonesty.

I think it is better for your methods to be clearly proclaimed.

Heck, maybe you aren't aware that your basic methods are weaselly, and pointing it out will bring you to greater self-knowledge! Win-win!

Bryan C said...

"It sounds like his comments were harming Danforth Middle School."

Danforth Middle harmed themselves. And if anyone harmed Syracuse it was Syracuse themselves, who have now made a very public spectacle of themselves.

Amartel said...

But don't stop that from re-characterizing my comment in order to change the topic ("academic inquiry") and make up new rules for free speech. Because a university's right to punish free speech it doesn't like is very very very important!

Shanna said...

I only said that about academic inquiries because some person was defending him on the basis that universities should be encouraging his kind of inquiry. I said that's not how such inquiries should be made.

I think you're being purposefully dense here. Schools should encourage student to think and ask questions, facebook is an appropriate forum for that so long as the thought police aren't looking over your shoulder.

phx said...

See craven dishonesty, point out craven dishonesty.

I think it is better for your methods to be clearly proclaimed.


Fine you've proclaimed what my methods are. No one can disagree you've told everyone what you think of me. Obviously I disagree. I don't know what you think I was being dishonest about but if you want to keep the discussion alive go ahead.

Renee said...

He was flippant, but I would be offended because he was there to help 'the worst school' in town.

While I can sympathize with CCAP, what good did it help telling the two students his opinion in that manner.

Why not say, "It's unfortunate that we don't have any graduates from our neighborhood to help out, maybe in ten years the students you help out now can give back."

virgil xenophon said...

LOTS of good comments here, but I'm muy simpatico with the comments of Chip S @10:40. Perhaps it's part because I'm from a different generation, part because I was raised and schooled on a college campus as the son of professors and part because of by Dutch-German genetics. but *I* would have been all over that guy and in his face in a NY second leaving him NO DOUBT as to my take on his comments...of course I never had an overweening desire to be thought a "nice guy" either--at least to the point of constantly worrying about the "nice guy" image. On the Masthead of the Eastern Illinois U. "Eastern Daily News (one of only two univ. papers in the nation to run their own printing operation) is the charge: "Tell the Truth and Don't Be Afraid."

Good words to live by..

Seeing Red said...

I thought I just read employers have the right to ask for your password to FB and you can't deny them it?

Seeing Red said...

On the bright side, there's a school who needs a new SS teacher to touch kids' hearts and this guy might be it.

virgil xenophon said...

Renee is ever the thoughtful diplomat (no snark intended AT ALL) but unfortunately diplomacy was NOT what the "brothers" had uppermost in mind...although in fairness perhaps Renee's version was what they might have had roughly in mind, but were too inartful to express..

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Some reading comprehension fail on Althouse's part today.

Or purposely mischaracterizing the facts of the story she linked to to support the goosestepping academic PC police.

For fucks sake Ann, its not like he said anything about your precious little pet issue of SSM.

virgil xenophon said...

PS: To my mind the REAL villains here are not the "brothers" who triggered the chain of events, but the ENTIRE PC Administrative edifice at Syracuse.

Michael said...

My guess is that all of the kids teachers are black and thus the notion they need black teachers for inspirational purposes, forget educational purposes, is off the mark.

The student over reacted in my view but there is no excuse for the university to retaliate or compel a reeducation program.

I was a liberal in the days when being a liberal meant being liberal. It is shocking to me to see such an important philosophy disappear and be replaced with nonsense wearing a nice dress.

Methadras said...

This is what politically correct culture engenders. The perpetually aggrieved come from everywhere. Political correctness is like a termite infestation. It eats away at your house over time until it either becomes structurally unsound or the problem is eradicated. Which will we choose to do?

Michael said...

My guess is that all of the kids teachers are black and thus the notion they need black teachers for inspirational purposes, forget educational purposes, is off the mark.

The student over reacted in my view but there is no excuse for the university to retaliate or compel a reeducation program.

I was a liberal in the days when being a liberal meant being liberal. It is shocking to me to see such an important philosophy disappear and be replaced with nonsense wearing a nice dress.

Amartel said...

"In the US, three piece suits are appropriate only for weddings, funerals, family portraits, and the opera."

Boooo! Well-tailored 3 piece suit can definitely go to work. Makes even fatsos look good. It's like magic.

Steve said...

I have known several young white teachers who lived the dream and went to work in a poorly performing and overwhelmingly minority school. Every single one of them quit early or became a bitter old teacher based on the experience. Rude and unruly students, apathetic or destructive patents and a school administration that is hostile towards whitey and seem to desire failure. He has learned a valuable life lesson. He has learned it early and at very little cost. He should be happy.

Lyle said...

America is in deep shit.

virgil xenophon said...

@steve

Or the not-so-young as was the case which I related here recently of the idealistic 40-something divorcee from Wisc who came to N.O to teach in the inner-city schools and was driven out by mid-term for all the reasons you spotlight..

Shanna said...

On another note, I believe quite a lot of the historical black colleges are in the south and I highly doubt most of those folks have any desire to move to Syracuse and deal with all that winter mess.

Jay said...

phx said...

"Benghazi lies" is your term. I said I didn't have enough information to render what EMD called an "objective assessment" of Benghazi. I made a point that there is a difference to claiming an "objective assessment" and claiming an "opinion."


Right, you made the terribly important point, in a thread about a dead Ambassador, that there is this vast difference between an "objective assessment" and "opinion."

You also said your "opinion" was that you couldn't offer an "objective assessment"

Again, you're a pathetic little hack coming here and saying pathetic little things.

William said...

Does anyone think that this student's opinions are overtly racist? Does anyone think that Syracuse fairly adjudicated his case. Does anyone think that the person who expelled him should not come forward and explain his reasons? Does anyone think that this adjudicator will give a fair hearing to the opposing sides in the next racial conflict?

Parker said...

How do we get to the point where I don't have to care what color anybody is?

I don't want to care - but I do, usually. Mostly because so many people in so many situations INSIST that I must care.

Or else I'm a racist.

Amartel said...

Shanna "On another note, I believe quite a lot of the historical black colleges are in the south and I highly doubt most of those folks have any desire to move to Syracuse and deal with all that winter mess."

Much earlier upthread, I looked this up on Wikipedia and found there are no HBCs in NY. There's one in OH and one in PA and the rest are in the southern states. The statement "it's too bad we can't get more student teachers from historically black colleges" was made by someone who knows it's wrong to come right out and say it's too bad these two tutors are white/we want black tutors. Know it's wrong so they hide what they mean behind obscuring language.

SOJO said...

No university program that a student feeds that much money into should have the arbitrary power to expel for such reasons. It should be a very rare.

IOW, you should be able to suffer a bit of a scandal and disagreement without it even coming close to expulsion and threatening your investment in your degree. That's an unfair power differential.

Anything on Facebook should be off limits as irrelevant - likes something said at a bar. The guy who kept Amanda Berry in chains had lovely quotes on his facebook page like "Miracles really do happen. God is good."

Methadras said...

William said...

Does anyone think that this student's opinions are overtly racist? Does anyone think that Syracuse fairly adjudicated his case. Does anyone think that the person who expelled him should not come forward and explain his reasons? Does anyone think that this adjudicator will give a fair hearing to the opposing sides in the next racial conflict?


This is the inherent problem. None of this was racist. It was bigoted, from both sides. Racism is a word thrown around now that has been diluted to the point of absurdity. One bigotry was met when another bigotry. The English language lost.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

If you're being introduced to your students, and the person introducing you basically says "It's a pity you aren't of the right race," I think being aggrieved is natural. Try it with races reversed.

And as someone pointed out here, NY hasn't got any HBCs.

Smilin' Jack said...

They happened to be the only two white people in the room. Shortly after the introduction, in the presence of Werenczak and the other white student teacher, the CCAP member, who is black, said that he thought that the city schools should hire more teachers from historically black colleges.


Well, of course. This is known as "promoting diversity," and is one of the most important things a School of Education teaches. In fact, it's about the only thing they teach. Obviously Werenczak just didn't get it, so it's no wonder he was kicked out.

1charlie2 said...

As a graduate of S.U., I shocked my oldest son who is heading off to college in the fall.

I told him two years ago "The following schools are off-limits to you if you want any funds from me. You can go there if you wish, but you are covering all costs."

And S.U. was on the list -- he wigged out and said "But Dad, YOU went there."

I told him "I sure did, and t was ridiculously P.C. when *I* went there, I can't IMAGINE how it is now."

And now I know.

1charlie2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
1charlie2 said...

As a graduate of SU, I shocked my oldest son who is heading off to college in the fall.

I told him two years ago "The following schools are off-limits to you if you want any funds from me. You can go there if you wish, but you are covering all costs."

And SU was on the list -- he was shocked: "But Dad, YOU graduated from SU."

I told him "I sure did, and t was ridiculously P.C. when *I* went there, I can't IMAGINE how it is now."

And now I know. EXPELLING a student for expressing an un-PC opinion ? Wow.

MCD said...

My impression is that many black parents want their children taught by black teachers and are willing to trade off teacher quality, if necessary, to achieve that end. This bothers me, but if hiring black teachers causes those parents to be more supportive of those schools (telling their children that they must work and learn, that teachers must be treated with respect, that there are consequences at home for misbehaving in class), maybe there is some value in that. I sure wouldn't stand for anything like in my kid's school. As I said, it bothers me.

John Lynch said...

I disagree with Althouse's remark that the school is teaching good judgement. It's not. The teaching student was expelled. That's not teaching. That's punitive. That's career-ending, and Syracuse knew it. What exactly was he supposed to learn? Don't be a teacher?

It would have been easy to ask the student to take down the FB post and be more careful in the future. That's teaching.

The only people who were supposed to be learning from the punishment were the other teacher candidates, who learned to shut up.

pst314 said...

Would Columbia University discipline or expel a black student for demanding racial quotas? Or for calling anti-quota people racists? Of course not. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.