Says Megan McArdle. She rejects the excuse that it's not a national issue — that murder is a matter for state law. I would say that there are plenty of general policy issues you can extract from that story — at least as many as we get from the Newtown murders and the George Zimmerman case (to name 2 stories that have received massive national press).
The linked piece dithers, but I think it's a confession that she just didn't want to have to think about it. It was squeamishness and a political commitment to abortion rights that she didn't want rumpled.
Let's talk about the morality of the seen and the unseen. This is a shallow morality that infects our lives. If the human entity is inside the womb, and it is cut into pieces that is one thing, but if it's "partially born" so that a nurse sees it clenching and unclenching its fists as it meets its demise, it's another. And if it slips entirely out, and everyone sees a living child and then the doctor severs its spine, then everyone is supposed to know it's murder. From the inside, these deaths are all the same. But no one sees from the inside of that now-dead brain. Why not shine a bright light on Kermit Gosnell and yell monster? Make it clear to everyone that you think he is so different from properly professional abortionists.
If you don't, you reveal that you have a nagging suspicion that he is not. And that's the one thing you don't want anyone to see.
IN THE COMMENTS: Matthew Sablan says:
The thing is, you don't even have to frame the story about abortion. I fully acknowledge Gosnell is probably not what most abortion providers do. It needs to be framed as another example of how the state failed to protect its people.I respond:
I agree that's the way those who support abortion rights should cover it. But why did they not jump at the opportunity to display so vividly that health care services to the poor (or to women) are not what they should be and no one cares?
They didn't want to risk that. There's a deep fear — true shame — about this other matter that I'm talking about.
Posts
469 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 469 Newer› Newest»I follow Abby, she wasn't just seeing fetal photos, she was freaking helping out with the killing.
I love Abby, BTW in her charity to help people leave the abortion industry is awesome.
My cousin, by adoption, became a total white trash whore, even though she was raised by an upper middle class professional Christian family. We didn’t know it but we later learned that’s what her mother was. Adoption does not correct these problems.
Obama on late term abortion:
For it.
In 1997, Obama voted in the Illinois Senate against SB 230, a bill designed to prevent partial-birth abortions. In the US Senate, Obama has consistently voted to expand embryonic stem cell research. He has voted against requiring minors who get out-of-state abortions to notify their parents. The National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) gives Obama a 100% score on his pro-choice voting record in the Senate for 2005, 2006, and 2007.
In 2003 Obama re-affirmed his pro-choice stance by re-iterating that
he is pro-choice including late term abortions.
This is why the media are silent on Gosnell.
Did you read ANY of the discussion between St, Croix, CStanley and myself on that huge 500 comment thread Wyo Sis? I don't think so or you wouldn't have said what you just did. St. Croix is PRO LIFE, so is CStanley, we agreed.
They are not absolutists.
4/13/13, 8:35 PM
---------------
Corrected, I'm tired.
Ken, I know crack babies who were adopted and turned out great.You view seems rather deterministic.
No worries, Inga! I was pro-choice when I was young, and then "pro-life and pro-choice" and now I'm just pro-life.
It was kind of an awakening process, at least for me.
When I google Tom Ridge and abortion, I'm not seeing a whole lot of pro-life there. Anybody got a link?
http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Tom_Ridge_Abortion.htm
I have no idea how credible this site is.
It looks to me like he's the "moderate" pro-choicer Inga keeps telling us about.
I was pro-choice in high school and college myself, and quite the feminist to boot. People do change their minds.
Shana, here's how you make an html link.
O Ritmo Segundo,
Anyway, there's no inconsistency between allowing medical procedures that protect the life or wishes of a mother from danger while before delivering a congenitally defected headless fetus and these criminal events.
The life "or wishes"? Seriously? And, again, "mother" of what? It mightn't be a child, perchance?
If you are in "fetus=blob of tissue" territory, there isn't a "mother," because there isn't a "child."
St. Croix, I've been spoiled by Facebook. I always forget to do the html stuff elsewhere. :)
People do change their minds.
Or lose them. ;-)
I can't help but think that some decisions are arrived at in life due to expediency. Being pro-choice is not an easy stance to stick with.
Shana, thanks for your comments. I'll keep them in mind.
Science makes it easier, though.
I am truly sorry for the pain in your family, Ken, I really am.
Red State is calling Tom Ridge an Unindicted Co-conspirator
Inga, your tentacles are everywhere!
"I can't help but think that some decisions are arrived at in life due to expediency. Being pro-choice is not an easy stance to stick with."
Oh the nobility!
Maybe this debacle awakens something in McArdle and balances her coverage.
What would it take for someone who is ardently against abortion to change his or her coverage to something more balanced?
I hope Gosnell gets a very long sentence.
Ah ha! I am vindicated!
Still absolutely no awareness that fathers are involved in this, somehow, or that the erasure of fathers might have something to do with the slaughter.
Still absolutely no awareness that the women who patronized Gosnell share in the guilt.
I thought the rhythm method was like 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, PULL OUT!!!!11!!11!1!!!!
Aw, shit, Baby, we gotta time it better.
It's so nice being correct.
Inga (sigh)
Oh the nobility!
Oh, your lack of nobility!
All of that abuse on the other thread and here, worth it, thanks for posting that St. Croix!!
Inga said...
It's not run of the mill abortion.
Intentional word choice? irony? macabre humor?
Ritmo said
"Obama had as much to do with this as Reagan had to do with the Beirut embassy bombing."
Oh really? He may not have known Gosnell, but he supports what Gosnell is about. He did/does what he can politically to make Gosnell's happen.
.."these assessments is really designed simply to burden the original decision of the woman and the physician to induce labor and perform an abortion"...go read the transcripts.
http://www.jillstanek.com/2008/02/links-to-barack-obamas-votes-on-illinois-born-alive-infant-protection-act/
wyo sis said...
I don't read huge 500 comment threads after the fact. They are too tedious. You appear to be blaming the whole thing on Ridge.
Because this is the pro-death (not choice, death) culture the Lefties have been pushing for 40 years come back to haunt them.
They have to find a way to shift the blame off the Demos.
As for the She Devil of the SS, she is only following orders.
I thought the rhythm method was like 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, PULL OUT!!!!11!!11!1!!!!
Aw, shit, Baby, we gotta time it better.
No lie, I thought that was the rhythm method for like a decade.
Still absolutely no awareness that fathers are involved in this, somehow, or that the erasure of fathers might have something to do with the slaughter.
Are you congenitally incapable of seeing anything from any point of view other than your own? What makes you think the world revolves around you? You really think that's a "mature" philosophy?
On most issues both sides feel that they can't afford to give even a little, and maybe admit to nasty outcomes from their positions, because of the slippery slope which actually is real. The thing is that slope always inclines to the left, unless you know of an example of it going the other way for any significant time on any issue.
What does not make sense is for the left to worry about it, but they do, because the left cannot stand any backtracking at all. No retreat or compromise can ever be allowed, because they are never wrong, never accountable, never satisfied.
This is not true of most on the right. They are used to backing up, and they eat their crow when it's served. Compromise is they best they ever get, and it's always just temporary.
This story was just far too nasty to let anyone act as usual, although some tried, and we should take note of who they were. They cannot be trusted.
Chick, not intentional, but ironic, in sad way.
Are you congenitally incapable of seeing anything from any point of view other than your own? What makes you think the world revolves around you? You really think that's a "mature" philosophy?
Your posts are always, reliably, savage and stupid, Ritmo the Retard.
As I said, you are a monument to stupidity. That's the only thing that's interesting about you... the depthless stupidity.
Saint Croix said...
Red State is calling Tom Ridge an Unindicted Co-conspirator
Red State was more interested that the Republicans not win the last election than Choom lose it.
So take anything they say with a grain of salt the size of the She Devil of the SS' ass.
bagoh
Bingo!
Oh really? He may not have known Gosnell, but he supports what Gosnell is about. He did/does what he can politically to make Gosnell's happen.
Bullshit. More conflation. This won't work.
Guilt by association works for people who can't make distinctions.
Bagoh, please. I've compromised my pro choice stance drastically.
Your posts are always, reliably, savage and stupid, Ritmo the Retard.
As I said, you are a monument to stupidity. That's the only thing that's interesting about you... the depthless stupidity.
Your posts are always about: YOU! YOU HAVE A PENIS! SO FATHERS MATTER! WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT SOME WOMAN THINKS?! FORCE THE PREGNANCY ON HER!
I believe Ridge is Catholic? Is that correct? Cognitive dissonance. (Not saying that cognitive dissonance is a Catholic thing,as many Protestants have the same problem, but apparently it IS a Ridge thing.)
Here's the connection between the Clintons and Dr. George Tiller.
His murder, by the way, made front page headlines in my hometown newspaper.
If the topic involves someone that doesn't directly involve Shouting Thomas, then Shouting Thomas will declare the persons involved to be beneath him. And that the topic must suck.
He's just that predictable.
Ritmo, the Retard,
I'm trying to help you. I'll continue to try.
Your stupidity and savagery are magnificent.
Really, the best thing for you to do would be to remain silent and read what I have to say.
Journalists are not supposed to have a "side".
I'm trying to help you. I'll continue to try.
Can you please be just a little more condescending?
Help yourself, jerk-off.
No one reads what you have to say. No one at all.
Shouting Thomas exists to declare that Shouting Thomas is important.
Anything that Shouting Thomas doesn't identify with physically is something that is bad.
He's the Beavis and Butthead of the Althouse blog. Even tries to play and appreciate really bad music. And then tell us all why his taste in music is good.
Throw the full tantrum, Ritmo.
That's what wise old men are for.
We endure the tantrums of stupid, savage young men, ride out the wave and try to bring you to your senses.
Let it rip. There's no other way to get to the other side.
Typo on me, St. Croix. Yes, Ridge is pro-choice.
There is no difference between what Planned Parenthood believes, and what Kermit Gosnell did.
Ritty the Retard wants to fling poo to distract from that fact.
My oh my...have any screeching "feminists" figured it out yet? No one gives a shit about you, or if you die on a filthy abortionists table or your unwanted little cunt bundle has its neck clipped while it lies screaming and flailing on that table. It's murder, pure and simple and you are fucking part of it...and still no one really gives a shit.
Anyone count up the number of black babies this black hero killed? Anyone care?
Didn't think so.
PS: funny thing, Judi and I heard Dr Ben Carson speak last night when Judi and I attended a benefit at Detroit's Tabernacle Missionary Baptist Church. We found his words uplifting, and nowhere did he suggest killing the unwanted. So did the 2000 others in the church. He and his wife also remained for a reception afterwards. He's a very easy man to like.
Which makes him a target I guess. Unlike the ghoul Gosnell.
I thought the rhythm method was like 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, PULL OUT!!!!11!!11!1!!!!
Aw, shit, Baby, we gotta time it better.
No lie, I thought that was the rhythm method for like a decade.
4/13/13, 9:16 PM
I got pregnant doing that. No I didn't have an abortion.
What makes you "wise", Thomas? Yes, you are old. But age doesn't make one wise. Being thoughtful about one's experiences does. Being selfish and lacking perspective, like you do, shows us that you just want to claim the very wisdom that you actually lack.
Tell us one intelligent idea you've ever come up with. Go ahead. Be proud of the lifetime achievements you've racked up. Tell us about them.
We wait with bated breath.
Obama's Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebellius, is an abortion fanatic and something of a cover-up artist.
Here she is at a party she threw for Dr. Tiller. Ugh.
Looks like Jay picked up on and is imitating your insults, Thomas. So that's one young man whom you've influenced. Or maybe he just identifies with you. Be proud of having one young sociopath that looks up to you!
I believe Ridge is Catholic? Is that correct?
In the future we will call them Ted Kennedy Catholics.
In ancient Greece, the sorts of young man-old man relationships that Thomas pines for were all the rage.
Ritmo
Keep on bating that breath until the light goes on.
There is also no difference between what Barack Obama believes and what Kermit Gosnell did.
Ritty the Retard wants to fling poo to distract from that fact.
Additionally, Ritty the Retard thinks she is credible in caring about 20 dead school children in Newton, CT (remember, all decent people support gun control) while supporting "the right to choose" (just don't choose to own a gun, wingnutz!).
Ritty be dumb.
Somebody tell Ritmo Choom has been a foot solider in the war On Women since he was a State Senator.
As always, browbeating never is a substitute for facts.
"Here she is at a party she threw for Dr. Tiller. Ugh"
Ugh indeed.
The reason why this story has not been reported on MSNBC, NBC, or ABC is because these people can't face the fact that what Kermit Gosnell did is the logical extension of their beliefs.
And, he was black aborting black and brown babies. Abortion black and brown babies is an idea that founded the abortion movement, so what is wrong with that?
Jay, Thomas and wyo sis. The trifecta of irrationality, contempt and a pathological desire to control others.
You're so full of facts, edutcher.
The whole concept of late term abortions is just wrong. It's a historic inevitability that abuses like this will happen if such places and procedures exist. If you locate a homeless shelter in a middle school, I guarantee there will be a scandal within the week. Babies are being executed on the examining table. What about this is not wrong? What about this is not a sensational story? ......Those countries that are most welcoming of abortions are not, in fact, the most welcoming of women.
When presented with the chance to vote on this issue, State Senator Obama expressed concern with the liability of doctors and voted "present"
Swell guy, that Barack Obama...
Here is good article on Obama and Gosnell.
Every time that the US Congress introduced legislation regarding partial birth abortion, Planned Parenthood engaged in "action alerts" and asked for donations.
The idea they are somehow upset by what Kermit Gosnell did is laughable.
Jay's upset because he can't call the Newton victims "pussies" for not owning and carrying guns to protect themselves with at the tender age of six.
Let's try and convince ourselves of how far from delusional he really is. But he looks up to his sugar-daddy (from a hillbilly's frame of reference), Shouting Thomas.
They have a very tender, loving (in an ancient Greek way) relationship. There is much "wisdom" that Thomas imparts onto Jay, in his stern but tender way.
Which part of Jay it goes into is open to interpretation.
Also, The idea that the people furiously ignoring the Kermit Gosnell story care 1 bit about 20 dead school kids in Newton, CT is laughable.
Jay's upset because he can't call the Newton victims "pussies" for not owning and carrying guns to protect themselves with at the tender age of six.
Notice how you've degenerated into such absurdity that nobody reading would refer to you as anything other than a loon.
Also, The idea that the people furiously ignoring the Kermit Gosnell story care 1 bit about 20 dead school kids in Newton, CT is laughable.
Jay is very honest in declaring that he cares about neither.
He is very Shouting Thomas-like in his lack of concern. In fact, the only thing those two care about is each other.
They admire their divergent forms of manliness. Thomas looks longingly at the young, brusque physique and mannerisms of Jay, and is fondly reminded of himself. Jay reciprocates by imitating his "experienced" Daddy, and asks what he has in store for him.
You see, it's very tender, but very manly. It's a Thomas-Jay thing.
The clipping, snipping, sucking & cutting being described in the Gosnell case is what happens during EVERY abortion. Just a little earlier.
Isn't that nice?
Notice how you've degenerated into such absurdity that nobody reading would refer to you as anything other than a loon.
4/13/13, 9:47 PM
Says the biggest loon on Althouse. So Jay, what do you think about that Red State article St. Croix linked to?
Fool.
Inga said...
Says the biggest loon on Althouse.
Says the silly embarrassment who blamed libertarianism for the whole Gosnell mess.
You can't make that level of stupid up, folks.
You're actually trying to reason with Jay, Inga!? That's hilarious! Gerbils have more sense than him.
Just ask Richard Gere. They can be furious like Jay, but more sensible.
Jay actually willingly goes where Thomas tells him to go. They're trusting like that. And respectful.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
You're so full of facts, edutcher.
You certainly aren't. And it shows.
Jay's upset because he can't call the Newton victims "pussies" for not owning and carrying guns to protect themselves with at the tender age of six.
Ritmo is riffing off the mindless automaton's failed attempt at conjuring up Uncle Saul.
Waiting for him to belch out, "ya burnt".
You see, it's very tender, but very manly. It's a Thomas-Jay thing.
The way Ritmo writes it, it's obvious he has experienced this firsthand.
Ah, projection. Without it, the little trolls would have no imagination at all.
Fool, hang your stupid head in shame.
Yeah Ritmo, I always pictured him as gerbil like.
nga said...
Fool, hang your stupid head in shame.
You're projecting again, you silly, fat woman.
Wake me up when you can actually blame pro choice polices for this horrific outcome.
"Bagoh, please. I've compromised my pro choice stance drastically."
So, you're saying that before you would have agreed with what Gosnell did, didn't care, or didn't know it was possible, but now you see the light? I'm just wondering where exactly you compromised from, or what you are compromising on.
Foolish gerbil.
Jay is very honest in declaring that he cares about neither.
Uh, I'm not the one here exposing a hypocrisy that is laughable.
You silly little girl.
Geez Ed. Get something to do. Seriously.
Ask Althouse if you can assist Meade in earnings-reports statements for a small pittance.
I heard that they are generously appreciative that way.
Bagoh, I posted by stance on abortion long before Gosnell hit the news.
I didn't mean you were a foolish gerbil Bagoh, I meant jay.
Ritmo/Inga tag team. Perfectly matched intellectually. Stunning.
This is not true of most on the right. They are used to backing up, and they eat their crow when it's served.
Because they are immune to humanity's greatest gift: Reason.
Bagoh, I stated previously that I thought abortion should be limited to the first trimester, then I compromised even further and said 8 weeks.
Michael said...
Ritmo/Inga tag team. Perfectly matched intellectually. Stunning.
They used to practically suck face on Ritmo's blog before he took it private.
It's good to see Michael drop on by to declare that he has nothing to say.
Michael - how you coming by with that defense of United's actions? Are you writing Jeff Smisek (their CEO) for movie recommendations?
Maybe his kids and your kids can hang out together sometime.
They used to practically suck face...
Which was notable in how jealous it made you.
Ahhhhhh, Michael I was waiting for you to show up. Michael is the one who said to me once he didn't care if African American welfare recipients aborted their children. You want to deny that now?
then I compromised even further and said 8 weeks.
Serious ? for you Inga:
What % of women do you think know are pregnant prior to being 8 weeks pregnant?
What is done in the privacy of a private blog is none of your concern Chickelit.
Michael is the one who said to me once he didn't care if African American welfare recipients aborted their children.
There's got to be a joke in here about being loud during in-flight movies and aborting the flights along with them.
Saint Croix said...
Here is good article on Obama and Gosnell.
4/13/13, 9:43 PM
That is a good read, St. Croix--thanks for linking that.
My hope for Obama and Gosnell is that his highness will see fit to at least comment on it lest he be further conjoined with the monster. He "weighed in" on the Zimmerman thing, the Harvard professor thing, and numerous other "african-american" interest issues so why not Gosnell?
The sooner that Obama disabuses people of the notion that he abets monsters the better.
Jay I don't speak to gerbils.
Nothing happened. We just liked to make Chickie jealous.
Which was notable in how jealous it made you.
Not jealous, just more like...why?
Heh, heh, that was fun;)
In Delaware Abortion Clinic, women "at risk of getting hepatitis, even AIDS"
But Kermit's like a total outlier.
"Underground" and stuff!
Well at any rate this thread did have some gold nuggets.
Gosnell's abortion clinic is in the same neighborhood as the U Penn Medical School and their subsidiary hospital.
Totally "underground"
What % of women do you think know are pregnant prior to being 8 weeks pregnant?
Tough one. My wife and I always knew, but then we were trying. For those not paying attention (of which those seeking abortions would be a high percentage, I presume), by about the 5th or 6th weeks, the nausea was kicking in, other changes, plus the missed menstruation.
Based on that, I'd say a pretty high percentage. Of course, there's also some denial, which would be hard to account for in any event.
He "weighed in" on the Zimmerman thing, the Harvard professor thing, and numerous other "african-american" interest issues so why not Gosnell?
He didn't really weigh in on Benghazi or Fast and Furious, so don't get your hopes up.
Not jealous, just more like...why?
I dunno. Probably for the same reason that you told her how you dreamt of escaping to Bavaria with her and speaking German without the interference of your, you know, other "obligations".
It was very romantic, in its own weird way. Some people go to Vegas for that sort of thing. Chickie, Deutschland.
4/13/13, 10:11 PM
Ha! I remember that , but it's best dropped.
Ritmo, shhhhhh.
Ok, fine quiet. But there's a certain country in Europe that might have to now adopt VIrginia's state motto, that's all I'm saying.
The people expressing their fake outrage about the dead school children in Newton, CT need to understand this:
Jezebel points out the obvious, writing that “Gosnell doesn’t represent or stand for abortion care in any way. Abortion, done right, is a safe medical procedure.” But this idea of a high-profile case drawing an emotional response, and the attempt to use that emotional response to drive a policy debate, ought to be familiar. Jezebel’s statement, after all, could just as easily have read: “But Adam Lanza doesn’t represent or stand for gun ownership in any way. Gun ownership, done right, is a safe practice.” Jezebel notes that “fewer than 0.3% of abortion patients ever experience a complication that requires hospitalization,” according to a pro-abortion rights group. But even according to anti-gun statistics, there were only 33,000 gun-related deaths in 2011 for 300,000,000 guns owned in the country (fewer than .00012 percent). The violent crime rate in the U.S., in fact, is approaching a historical low.
But as agents of tyranny, they never can or will...
And not sic semper tyrannis, either but the tourism slogan.
Patrick,
thanks.
I suspect that those not married and not trying may live in a different reality.
Yeah, Inga, I was just trying to account for folks who weren't paying attention. Unaccounted for nausea, breat tenderness, etc. can only be ignored for so long. (We always knew early, but we were trying.)
Not sure what your second sentence means, but it serves as a sign that I need to stop working on my brief.
'nite
Only a complete simpleton would suggest that "background checks" are an appropriate response to a scenario where someone murdered their mother, stole her guns, and shot up a school.
There are apparently a lot of complete simpletons in DC and a part of the American left...
I dunno. Probably for the same reason that you told her how you dreamt of escaping to Bavaria with her and speaking German without the interference of your, you know, other "obligations".
I wouldn't have written that because I wouldn't have thought or said that.
Patrick, I = it. Darn autocorrect.
Chickelit, it was just a joke, don't worry.
Jay envisions elementary schools as coliseums where toddlers and young children get to prove their mettle by undergoing "feats of strength" and finding out whether they've got the stuff to take out mass murderers.
I'm telling you, this is the kind of stuff that Jay dreams about.
And afterward, he calls the kids that didn't make it "pussies".
He lives in a Hunger Games of his own making. It gives his life purpose. Deciding that others should live this way is what he lives for.
Seriously.
"The morality of the seen and unseen."
The sense in which Ann uses it hear is the "you see no evil if you close your eyes" sense. It's a matter of avoiding what's in front of you.
But the Re is another sense, where what we see as having value is only those things that are a reflection of ourselves. The more we relate to them, the more infused with value they are. That's essentially an aesthetic judgment. As a practical matter, in this context it means an early term fetus (the so-called collection of cells) has little inherent value; late term, where we see ourselves in the infant in utero, much more so. But the fully formed person (in this case, the mother), even more so still.
There are many other ways to parse out the values at stake. But I think the pro-choice side at its most coherent views the issue in those essentially aesthetic terms. It dispenses with any notion of inherent rights, and makes the whole discussion turn on concepts and images of the self. The classical feminist approach (our bodies, ourselves) strikes me as especially shallow in that it effectively denies that abortion presents a significant clash of values.
Inga: " I stated previously that I thought abortion should be limited to the first trimester, then I compromised even further and said 8 weeks."
How dare you join the wingnuts in their war on women.
Blogger O Ritmo Segundo said...
Jay envisions elementary schools as coliseums where toddlers and young children get to prove their mettle by undergoing "feats of strength" and finding out whether they've got the stuff to take out mass murderers.
That's right, stupid shit!!!
Because pointing out background checks have nothing to do with the matter means I want kids to carry guns!
And, and, and, pointing out that Connecticut already had an Assault Weapons Ban, gun registration, gun background checks, and gun purchase waiting periods, policies all of which you support and failed in protecting those 20 dead school children, means I support kids having guns.
Really, it does.
Idiot.
How dare you join the wingnuts in their war on women.
What's your excuse... that it's gentlemanly to compromise (which has yet to happen, actually) on account of not knowing how to make a reasonable case?
Ritmo, what is that scratching, gnawing sound in the wall? Did you leave the gerbil cage door open again?
Jay, you want the kids to have superior firepower, or be armed to the teeth. We know this. You practically want to make police conscripts of them. Just admit it. You afraid of letting the kiddies exercise "personal responsibility"?
Inga said...
Bagoh, I stated previously that I thought abortion should be limited to the first trimester, then I compromised even further and said 8 weeks.
Bit different from last November when you said:
"I am speaking for myself only, but I would be in favor of abortion restricted to 16-18 weeks. A fetus according to a British study cannot feel pain before the 24th week, the nervous system hasn't developed that far before that stage."
Good news that you've changed your mind. What brought about the change?
Oh and in Connecticut a person may not obtain a handgun eligibility certificate if he or she:
Has been discharged from custody within the preceding twenty years after having been found not guilty of a crime due to mental disease or defect pursuant to section 53a-13;
Has been confined in a mental hospital for persons with psychiatric disabilities within the preceding 12 months by order of a probate court.
But by pointing out "background check" won't matter, I want kids to have guns.
In a funny bit of self-beclownment, ritty the retard needs to insist something so absurd because she can't speak to the facts on this matter.
Republicans have yet to endorse the "Glocks for Tots" program that Jay has been innovative enough to propose. But sooner or later they will come around. His pederast-father figure Shouting Thomas has assured him that they will see this as no more savage than the alternative.
Blogger O Ritmo Segundo said...
Jay, you want the kids to have superior firepower,
^ That is what people, who can not defend an absurd policy position, say.
Don't worry you little poo flinger, it is quite transparent.
"What's your excuse
You don't call us wingnuts for nothing. We're just crazy. We think killing our offspring to avoid minor inconvenience is counterproductive and maybe evil. We don't know why we think that, and we don't care. We're freaking NUTZ! That's my excuse.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
This is not true of most on the right. They are used to backing up, and they eat their crow when it's served.
Because they are immune to humanity's greatest gift: Reason.
Yet, if reason is on Ritmo's side, why must he resort to name-calling and browbeating?
Obviously, it isn't.
Because they are immune to humanity's greatest gift: Reason.
Because reason requires we scream for "background checks" as an appropriate response to a scenario where someone murdered their mother, stole her guns, and shot up a school.
Yet, if reason is on Ritmo's side, why must he resort to name-calling and browbeating?
Obviously, it isn't.
Because reasonable people have the brains to conclude that reason hasn't worked, and won't work on them.
So might as well have some fun.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
Because reasonable people have the brains to conclude that reason hasn't worked, and won't work on them.
Alternatively, you're a silly, absurd dipshit incapable of reason.
Ken, so children are better off dead than adopted? What a hideous thing to say, and ignorant to boot. I believe you mentioned in another thread being a Presbyterian--does your church not teach that every life has intrinsic value? Do you know any adopted people other than your unfortunate relative? Do you think the world would be a better place without them?
My son's birth mother was an HIV-positive, alcoholic stripper, drug user and occasional prostitute. I suppose you think that he should have been murdered in utero because her sins made him unworthy of life? I invite you to come to Texas and spend an hour watching him playing jokes on his sisters, belly laughing, drawing spiders and praying "Jesus Jesus I love you Jesus amen" before meals and then tell me that Suresh, he's probably countries grow up into a waste of breath like his birth mother so he never should have been permitted to live in the first place.
YES, Lydia. You've posted this a couple of times now, but it's OK, it not a gotcha!
I want a compromise with pro life people that may have a sliver of a chance with pro choice people. Also I want to be sure the neonate as no brain activity, which begins at 8 weeks. I understand that pain isn't felt until later, but who can be sure?
You don't call us wingnuts for nothing. We're just crazy. We think killing our offspring to avoid minor inconvenience is counterproductive and maybe evil. We don't know why we think that, and we don't care. We're freaking NUTZ! That's my excuse.
Oh, shut up. Everyone knows by now that you have no interest in politics other than to kiss the bankers' butts. Biznessmens is heroes! Yes, we all know that for you it gets no more complicated than this. You're essentially the Alex of politically promiscuous opportunists - if only more philosophically disinterested, who just go to where your single-issue candidates take you.
Don't worry. Your kind will be the last of the single-issue voters.
*Suresh=sheesh and countries = going to
Stupid autocorrect.
Alternatively, you're a silly, absurd dipshit incapable of reason.
Alternatively, you're a butt-munch who waits longingly for "Old Man" Shouting Thomas to show you how to BE a man. In that loving way of his.
Also Lydia I've been posting for months now that I would be in favor of limiting abortion to the 1st trimester, way before Goanell, if that's what you're getting at.
Gosnell.
EVERYONE! LOOK!
Archeologists have uncovered long-lost remnants of two individuals who seem to comport with the idea of tutoring and the conveying of wisdom held to by SHOUTING THOMAS and JAY! Look! Behold the transfer of wisdom from older man to younger, testosterone-fueled teen-boy! Watch as they bring their very humanistic love into full-on fruition!
"Oh, shut up"
What's the matter - you ain't got none of that reason stuff to show us hillbillies?
The usual disintegration.
Enjoy the recline,
It's amazing how Ritmo flings such homophobic stereotype and yet--fights to the death to see others even broach such a thing.
There was reason in there (the observation that you're obviously a single-issue voter), but it was obviously wasted on your pretend-hillbilly self. As could be predicted.
But good on you to take on the Palin-esque fake twang. Even W. faked a Texas accent. Pretty soon you'll be faking roots in Appalachia, and getting Don Trump to figure out new and interesting ways to forge birth certificates between siblings in 1870s West Virginia.
Didn't post what I did as a gotcha, Inga. It's just that you made a pretty dramatic reduction in the time limit, and I wondered if it had been a change of heart or something else.
Guess I've missed your efforts at a grand compromise with pro-life folks.
It's amazing how Ritmo flings such homophobic stereotype and yet--fights to the death to see others even broach such a thing.
Pederasty is to homosexuality as molestation is to heterosexuality. You don't even understand the difference.
But SHOUTING THOMAS does! He loves to think that he's entitled to things, to be considered more manly to a younger subordinate, on account of age. Just like the pederasts did.
If you don't believe me, read what he writes. Try it from an NT point of view.
I was actually born in Apilasha.
No Ritmo. You're the predictable one. Obviousness and predictbalility is thy name. About the only person on this blog who hasn't acknowledged this (i.e., recognized it) are Althouse and Inga.
Ritmo can't win so he just tries to sounds like a gay young blade, witty as Noel Coward.
Coward, yes; Noel, no.
Pederasty is to homosexuality as molestation is to heterosexuality. You don't even understand the difference.
Cedarford belabored that point once here IIRC. I clicked through.
Lydia, no change in heart. My heart always said it was the taking of a human life after brain activity. Abortions will never go away, they've been around for what a thousand years? Women still deserve a choice, it's still their bodies, even if they are doing something terribly wrong. My heart has always said its wrong, my head says abortion will NEVER go away.
I don't care what word you use for it; love of people's feet is just sick shit.
@Ritmo: Why your schtick is getting old is because you've crossed a line. And you're crossing lines even faster than usual. Sure, you're a more gifted composer of words than many, but most people here see that talent as utterly wasted. So please rethink your stategy.
bagoh20 said...
I don't care what word you use for it; love of people's feet is just sick shit.
Gosnell was a pederast in that sense. He kept feet in jars.
What line? If the story was fake (as Inga now seems to indicate it was), then I can delete the reference. Not that you didn't seem fixated in your own way.
Geez. If you'd like to proceed differently about something, just ask. For crying out loud. No need to be angry. You might be used to people who don't know how to be diplomatic about things, but if you're that upset, just say so and it can be corrected.
And if you want me to delete the funny/silly referenced links to ancient Greece (the number of similar links is what makes it funny - kind of like overkill), I can do that, too.
My issue is with Jay and Thomas. I have no need of upsetting you, Chickie. Just be careful. When you take out the guns on me (FIGURATIVELY - I mean in terms of blog word war, NOT PHYSICALLY), I kind of assume you feel that you know what you're doing and don't mind playing along.
But let me know. THanks.
chickelit said...
I don't care what word you use for it; love of people's feet is just sick shit.
Gosnell was a pederast in that sense. He kept feet in jars.
Those were scalps. He just didn't hang them on his belt.
Of course, he didn't turn them into lampshades, either.
Chicklit is cataloging all of this while his limp wimpy hog tries to sustain an erection.
Ritmo droht:
..I mean in terms of blog word war,..
The War Between Beer And Wine. Obscure painted mural in the UW-Madison Student Union.
Wein nach Bier das rat ich dir; Bier nach Wein das las sein.
Titus said...
Chicklit is cataloging all of this while his limp wimpy hog tries to sustain an erection.
Titus' hog will never beget life. He will only beget imaginary bigots.
Imagine a sad and shriveled Titus, unenclumbered by responsibility but having 2500+ LinkedIn contacts.
OK. So everyone's friends again?
Good night!
unenclumbered by responsibility but having 2500+ LinkedIn contacts.
Actually, this sounds rather ideal to me.
Don't discount the perks of the corner office, man!
Leisure is always important.
Strelnikov,
"No, it isn't different: All three are murder."
I suspect you are new here, and that you do not recognize Althouse's rhetorical style. She is making the case that the three are really -not- all that different.
In the Human Events link, Obama says (in defense of late term abortions)
"I believe women make responsible choices"
Now. Why would he believe that? He certainly didn't say the same thing about families choosing between the pace maker and the blue pill for grandma. There, he realized people make the self-interested choice.
The fact is, the women who went to Gosnell got what they wanted. Their choice was to kill a viable baby.
I can only imagine Obama, who issued a statement on Tiller when he was killed, believes what Tiller and Gosnell did is responsible. But nobody will ask Obama about it because, like Benghazi, reporters don't ask Obama questions he can't answer.k
I notice that Inga doesn't have her usual assuredness on this.
It's just a clump of cells, not a person.
/Ritmo
No retreat or compromise can ever be allowed, because they are never wrong, never accountable, never satisfied.
I think the issue is that the house of cards might fall over.
If AFDC is wrong, Illegal Immigration doesn't make sense, then the whole approach is under risk. That's why they have to subjugate significant portions of the populace to the government, by making them dependent.
The right answer is to stop fighting, and make a new definition of what it means to be a man. A person that can take care of his family. Not by muscles, but by caring and effort.
Little house on the Prairie ought to be required reading for everyone. That's the society I want to live in.
I don't care what word you use for it; love of people's feet is just sick shit.
My wife new a guy who liked to smear shit over his wife and himself and found it highly erotic.
When the puberty dam breaks, and runs down the mountain, who knows what river it is going to make (seriously, one of my kids found my youngest had watched some porn of "Japanese Vomit Sex," before I got rid of the laptops in our house).
Even small things can change the river's course. Like seeing a woman's shoe while masturbating.
What's amazing to me is that so many women put up with this stuff. Somehow, I don't think this is the same experience for women.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
Pederasty is to homosexuality as molestation is to heterosexuality.
That would be "true" if we ignore the fact that homosexualities engage in pederasty at a much higher rate than hetereosexuals engage in molestation.
In other words, you don't know the difference.
You silly little poo flinger you.
Mrswhatsit. You will have to ask one of the scientists, Ritmo or Inga. I would go with Inga, the smarter of the two.
Amazing how these threads disintegrate over time--entropy is apparently alive and well.
Sylvia Rosen: What do you want for this year?
Don Draper: I want to stop doing this.
Sylvia Rosen: I know.
-- Mad Men, 6:1 (Part II)
There's a deep fear — true shame — about this other matter that I'm talking about.
posted by Ann Althouse at 6:11 PM on Apr 13, 2013
The fear that this is the manner the left employs to control a certain portion of population? The inherent racism?
Inga wrote: Bagoh, I stated previously that I thought abortion should be limited to the first trimester, then I compromised even further and said 8 weeks.
So you are opposed to planned parenthoods constant attempts to not limit partial birth abortions. Correct?
And you are pro choice how, again?
Thursday’s testimony had sensational details. The court staff, convinced it would attract journalists from around the nation, has set aside three rows of seats to accommodate up to 40 reporters. But all Thursday morning, as Ashly Baldwin testified to horror after horror, only one reporter was in the reserved seating — me.
Several local news outlets were there, scattered about the mostly empty courtroom. The Philadelphia Inquirer had a reporter there. NBC10 sent a blogger for its website. The AP stopped in, but the reporter told me that resources are thin and trial coverage is not gavel to gavel.
An hour into afternoon testimony, Jon Hurdle of The New York Times showed up, and a few minutes later was gone.
The lack of daily media coverage for the most sensational abortion trial angers pro-lifers who said there is a “media black out” on the Gosnell trial.
I asked one of the court staff why so few are interested.
“If you’re pro-choice, do you really want anybody to know about this,” he said, motioning to the filthy medical equipment set up in the courtroom.
It’s a good point. As saturation coverage of the Sandy Hook elementary school coverage has caused Americans to reconsider the limits of the Second Amendment, saturation coverage of Kermit Gosnell’s clinic would likely cause the same reconsideration of abortion rights.
From this article.
Grisly abortion provider Dr. Gosnell is giving infanticide a bad name.
Really folks, what did you think happens in an abortion mill?
Abortion is a bloody, violent unnatural event. The bigger the fetus, the bloodier and the more violent.
After 24 weeks the fetus is viable outside the mother's uterus. I am vehemently pro-life, but if there is a constitutional right to privacy which allows a woman to kill her own fetus, 24 weeks must be the cut off.
After 24 weeks, it is not a fetus. It is a baby.
Neonatal intensive care units exist to keep 24 week old infants alive.
Few things have lawyers screwed up on in America worse than Roe v. Wade. Maybe the deep flaws in the Constitution that set us up for the Civil War, maybe the inability of the Founders to realize that future financing made unlimited size government fueled by debt not revenue possible.
But we were on a path to democratically "settling" abortion before the lawyers dressed in robes intruded and set the cancer of the Right to Lifers loose in the Republican ranks and idealogues that see no problem whatsoever with Dr Gosnell.
The people would have voted to make 1st trimester abotions and morning after pills legal. They would also have allowed exceptions for life and physical health of the pregnant woman and likely distastfully been forced to accept a need to abort the fetuses with severe defects.
They probably would have voted exceptions for rape and incest initially, but then voted to take those away because few incest babies would actually be defective and there is no reason why a raped woman would hestitate to get a 1st trimester abortion.
They likely would have voted to have review boards so the abortionist making money from late abortions was not financially connected in any way with those doctors determining fetal defect, diagnosing the pregnant woman as having real health issues or a life threat from going full term in gestation.
Instead, what we got was Republicans playing the pro-life card to get in power where they abandoned all other Republican principles like business responsibility, seeking better wages for working Americans, more jobs, and fiscal prudency.
Democrats now have the advantage - they win most elections - with 55% of the woman's vote being the prime determinative. And all they have to do is tell women to close their eyes and imagine Rick Santorum and the other RTL goobers being in charge of their wombs and family end of life decisions if they vote Republican.
I agree that's the way those who support abortion rights should cover it. But why did they not jump at the opportunity to display so vividly that health care services to the poor (or to women) are not what they should be and no one cares?
They didn't want to risk that. There's a deep fear — true shame — about this other matter that I'm talking about.
Bullshit. There's no "shame". The only shame is that the right-wingers won't know the difference between legitimate procedures and what Gosnell did (as this thread amply demonstrates), and will jump at the opportunity to conflate the two and bring all potentially as-gullible fellow travelers along with them. Althouse again whiffs it by massively underestimating the stupidity of the American people (especially when it comes to sensationalized, graphic displays) and their ability to go along with, while nodding, Oprah-like, to obviously wrong, right-wing propaganda.
Strange thread that wanders off in to Ritmo denigrating Jay and Shouting Thomas in a seriously homophobic manner, repeatedly, (in case you didn't get it),then when called on it by Chickelit, he/she/it condescendingly claims the humor defense. Ha ha.
Ritmo you are a precious hypocrite of the first order, filling this thread with banalites and nonsense when you have no defense for the real Gosnell case facts as they are, ghoulish...and cited correctly by Althouse in 6th comment of 388 ...
But why did the [the pro-choice crowd] not jump at the opportunity to display so vividly that health care services to the poor (or to women) are not what they should be and no one cares? ... They didn't want to risk that
Karma Chameleon.
"The song is about the terrible fear of alienation that people have, the fear of standing up for one thing. It's about trying to suck up to everybody..." ~Boy George.
That's pretty much the position of all the defenders in this argument. At least Althouse pointed it out early on.
Ritmo asserted ...
Reference: comment # 6 of 390 by Althouse
Bullshit. There's no "shame". The only shame is that the right-wingers won't know the difference between legitimate procedures and what Gosnell did ...
I'll bite. Will you specifically define for me where this "legitimate" you speak of begins and ends? What defines it in the legislation defining legitimacy? Is it time from conception? How much time? Is it methodological...scissors or scalpel stabbing? Is a D & C as legitimate as stabbing a wriggly new born [dragged out like a calf from a cow perhaps] on the table? Just what defines what is "legitimate?"
You claim to know this line and that many of use "right wingers" don't...so tell us in precise detail. Tell us how many births of any kind, animal or human you've attended yourself. What is the source of your knowledge, superior as you say it is?
Why is the case even being tried?
After 24 weeks the fetus is viable outside the mother's uterus. I am vehemently pro-life, but if there is a constitutional right to privacy which allows a woman to kill her own fetus, 24 weeks must be the cut off.
After 24 weeks, it is not a fetus. It is a baby.
I think that actual viability in some cases is now down a bit lower, maybe 21 weeks or so. Still, this has always been one of the problems with the extreme pro-choice position, as exercised by Obama in his state house days, that the fetuses that are aborted during the third trimester are mostly viable, and a minute or two away from legal humanity and personhood via an emergency C section.
I don't know how far "right wing" to be appalled at the deliberate murder of babies born alive. I believe that abortion ought to be safe and legal, but if infanticide is the next battleground in the left wing's never-ending culture wars then expect me to be an implacable opponent. I think I'll have a lot of company.
Inga's comments on this thread -- and at 400 comments I probably missed a few -- leave me wondering what were the standards of care at the facilities where she worked that she is not appalled at the standards of care at Gosnell's facility.
"After 24 weeks the fetus is viable outside the mother's uterus. I am vehemently pro-life, but if there is a constitutional right to privacy which allows a woman to kill her own fetus, 24 weeks must be the cut off.
After 24 weeks, it is not a fetus. It is a baby.
Neonatal intensive care units exist to keep 24 week old infants alive."
4/14/13, 8:52 AM
Jr. Please tell me that you will ask Martha here how she calls herself "vehemently pro life". A neonate can survive at 20 weeks now I'm told. She's actually far more pro choice than I am, yet calls herself vehemently pro life.
Jr.?
"Instead, what we got was Republicans playing the pro-life card to get in power where they abandoned all other Republican principles like business responsibility, seeking better wages for working Americans, more jobs, and fiscal prudency.
Democrats now have the advantage - they win most elections - with 55% of the woman's vote being the prime determinative. And all they have to do is tell women to close their eyes and imagine Rick Santorum and the other RTL goobers being in charge of their wombs and family end of life decisions if they vote Republican."
4/14/13, 9:57 AM
-------------------------
True.
"Inga's comments on this thread -- and at 400 comments I probably missed a few -- leave me wondering what were the standards of care at the facilities where she worked that she is not appalled at the standards of care at Gosnell's facility."
4/14/13, 11:02 AM
Big Mike, are you on crack? Seriously, you think I wasn't appalled at the standard of "care" at this clinic?! SERIOUSLY? I wonder about you sometimes. All the questioning I did and was attacked for, when I dared to ask, WHY were abortion clinics not inspected since 1993?!
Maybe you should read the entire 500 comment thread on abortion and Gosnell from Friday.
4/14/13, 11:16 AM
@Inga, in my defense I have been busy and didn't pay much attention to the previous thread.
Can I take it that you and I are fundamentally in agreement that abortion clinics should be treated like any other clinic that performs outpatient services? Subject to the same licensing requirements and same inspections?
Inga said:
" All the questioning I did and was attacked for, when I dared to ask, WHY were abortion clinics not inspected since 1993?!"
No, you were "attacked", which is what you call being argued with I guess, for trying to blame libertarians for it, rather than the pro-choice lobby and activists.
Then, once everyone let you know they weren't falling for that piece of deflection, you reluctantly decide to let the pro-aborts take a small piece of the blame. Very magnanimous.
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