April 28, 2013

"A baseball game between two Chicago public high schools was canceled Saturday when some parents from a North Side school..."

"... refused to let their children travel to the South Side for the game, saying they were worried about the safety of their kids."
"This is probably one of the most embarrassing moments I’ve had,” said [William] Wittleder, who has coached high school baseball for 10 seasons and is in his second year as Payton’s head coach. “It’s very heartbreaking. This is totally against what I believe in.”

302 comments:

1 – 200 of 302   Newer›   Newest»
mccullough said...

Throw those kids off the team. This is ridiculous. The coach has a lot of class but the parents don't.

ricpic said...

Better a dead child than a hint of racisss.

ndspinelli said...

What a crock. We played some schools in Hartford and New Haven in my youth that were in very high crime areas. These kids had shit equipment and facilities and usually kicked our blue collar, Catholic asses. Our coaches, teachers, parents, all thought it was important to experience. Now, I realize the southside of Chicago is more depraved than the inner city schools we played in the 60's. But, absent some specific reason I think this was a bad decision. There is a Roberto Clemente HS in Chicago..tough neighborhood.

edutcher said...

I don't blame them one bit. Chi-town is another combat zone like Detroit.

We had a similar problem with one of the public high schools in Philadelphia, so they came out to us.

Sorun said...

If whites don't want to go to a black neighborhood, it's because the whites are racist. If blacks don't want to go to a white neighborhood, it's because the whites are racist.

Pogo said...

Right on Martin Luther King Drive.

I'm shocked!

Gahrie said...

Right on Martin Luther King Drive.

I've always thought it slightly ironic that a street named after a man who preached non-violence is usually in the most violent part of town.

Unknown said...

Knowing the Chicago area, this was a smart action by the parents. The South side is a cesspoll.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
furious_a said...

What a crock...

Yes, it is, until you have to pass through a metal detector and pat-down (to be fair to the home team's fans) to watch your kids JV basketball game.

Oh, and exiting the gym, recommended that one go in a large group with security escort in order to reach the visitors' buses safely. We were encouraged not to bring our own transportation because, you know...

It's sad we've come to this,.but I'm not willing to trade my child's ir my own safety for the feelings of people from the bad side of town .

mccullough said...

These kids play every year throughout the city. This is the first batch of cowardly parents. If the kids don't want to play in these games they shouldn't have joined the team. Throw them off the team and get some ball players.

Fucking white liberals.

Ipso Fatso said...

I can't blame the northside parents. If the game was at 11am or so, it probably would not be a problem. Starting at 7pm and ending sometime around 10 to 11 pm on a Saturday night in that neighborhood you are asking for trouble. You don't know who would be in the stands or near by. White kids would draw a crowd which is not necessarily good. Plus you bus would have to make its way to the LSD or I-90/94 through some tough areas late at night. It is not worth it at that time. Earlier in the day, yes, but not then. Racist my ass.

mccullough said...

Furious. Then don't let your kids play sports. No one forced these kids to join. It's not like the schedule is a mystery. If your kid is afraid or you are afraid don't play.

But don't join the team and then fuck it up for the real ball players.

Michael said...

Despite the best efforts of those in "authority" some people, a growing number of people, are refusing to ignore what they see or pretending that what they see is something they do not see. We can expect this trend to continue.

mccullough said...

Who said these people are racist? They're just ignorant cowards.

People have been playing ball in these places for a long, long time.

AJ Lynch said...

Parents today are way too involved in Junior's extra curricular life.

John said...

“It’s very heartbreaking. This is totally against what I believe in.”

I am curious what this guy does believe in. Parents risking their kid's safety?

Fire his ass. He doesn't deserve to be working as a coach.

John Henry

Pogo said...

I cancelled a trip to downtown Chicago, after the assaults and robberies there a few weeks ago.

The articles about Chicago violence act as they're just having bad weather, like the murders and rapes and robberies are from bad luck or aliens.

The parents are hypocritical liberals, to be sure, but even hypocrites are afraid for their own children. Everyone else's can go screw.

ndspinelli said...

mccullough, Amen!

mccullough said...

John Henry,

This guy has coached 10 years. This is the first batch of pussy parents he's had. He believes that when you join a team you commit to playing all the games on the schedule.

Chicago was way more violent in the 1980s and none of the players or our parents would have pulled a chickenshit move like this.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

An Alinsky of the right would create a protest of rich white liberals at the school on the South side, let the thuggiest of thugs know about the free shit people are handing out ("you just gotta tell the white people to give their shit to you or they will bleed a lot") and film the results.

Sure sure, we would have to distract the cops to maximize carnage, but that would simply entail large numbers of people overwhelming the system with 911 calls.

Chicago is nothing if not abundant in emergencies.

Pogo said...

I dunno, mccullough.

It's a game, innit? It ain't the military.

The thuggery is worse now than in the 1980s. 4 shootings a day in Chicago, that you know of.

I don't see the point of playing against thugs.



somefeller said...

The parents are hypocritical liberals, to be sure, but even hypocrites are afraid for their own children. Everyone else's can go screw.

I didn't see a reference to the voting behavior or ideology of the parents in the article. But, don't let me stop your two minutes hate against the big bad liberals!

bagoh20 said...

If cancelling sports saves even one child's life then how can you risk not doing it? It's certainly more dangerous than having an armed teacher in a school, and that's crazy dangerous.

But seriously, who's fault is it if your neighborhood is so dangerous that people don't want to visit. Get your dogs under control if you want visitors.

Seeing Red said...

I don't remember gangs of 400 walking down Michigan Avenue at night back in the 80s.

Insty recently linked to an article from Chicago Magazine about aldermen & gangs.

Chicago used to be known at Beirut by the Lake.

7 PM on a Saturday night on the South Side? Whose brilliant idea was that?

Rahm isn't stopping this, his priority is taking away guns from legal, law abiding citizens.

mccullough said...

Pogo,

The murder rate in Chicago is about half what it was 20 years ago. 1974 was the most violent year in the city.

Almost all the violence is gang on gang. They don't shoot up the parks during baseball games. When they do shit like that, the police drop a hammer on them. The gangs don't need those problems. When they just kill each other, then the police treat it for what it is.




Big Mike said...

If you don't know anything about Pullman, you have no right to say a word.

I wouldn't let any of my kids go near the place without armed escorts.

mccullough said...

Other than me, did anyone grow up in Chicago? This is unheard of.

mccullough said...

Big Mike,

Tell me about Pullman. Which gang controls which territory? How many shootings have been in the park where the game is?

Which police beat covers the park? Does the watch commander in the 5th send a couple of cars to the park during games?

Seeing Red said...

Of course, if some feller was actually curious about the locations of the schools and the crime stats he could have looked them up and educated the thread. Instead he chose to knee-jerk, throw stones, patting himself on the back for his wit.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Defending the violence on Chicago's South side by saying it was worse before is what I expect from Chicago fucks.

You survived when it was tougher, damnit, so fuck these cowards, and their kids, today.

IT IS BASEBALL!

How could one feel superior to those murdered (they weren't tough enough, the fucking dead cunts) if there weren't any murdered?


garage mahal said...

The murder rate in Chicago is about half what it was 20 years ago.

Every time a gun control debate comes up, this is what I use. "CHICAGO!"

Way to kill a perfectly good talking point!

Lyle said...

We have a "black" President and he is doing nothing.

He can't talk about the degenerate subculture within black America and he can't talk about violent Islamism.

Something is horribly wrong.

Pogo said...

I went to grade school in Chicago, but that was in the 60s.
We moved away because of the DNC riots of 1968.
So I'm no expert.

"I didn't see a reference to the voting behavior or ideology of the parents in the article."
It's Chicago.
Think about it.

You can argue that the volume of crime is less than 20 years ago, but that's because the numbers are increasingly faked, just as they are in Britain.

Chip S. said...

This shooting in Pullman happened a day before the game was scheduled, a mile west and a mile south of the park in question.

That may have made the question salient in the minds of a few parents.

Seeing Red said...

McCullough, it does seem like King Richard II kept a lid on things and Rahm can't.

somefeller said...

Of course, if some feller was actually curious about the locations of the schools and the crime stats he could have looked them up and educated the thread. Instead he chose to knee-jerk, throw stones, patting himself on the back for his wit.

Of course, my comment related to the purported ideology of the parents, not the crime stats. But thanks for playing.

somefeller said...

It's Chicago. Think about it.

And on the topic of knees jerking...

mccullough said...

Buckley,

You are a pussy and a whiner. Kids have been playing ball games there for a long, long time and there's never been a problem.

But stay in your Kim's basement where you'll be safe.

Pogo said...

I agree that most of the violence is gang versus gang.

And maybe parents are bigger pussies now.

So what?

At some point, people get fed up with being told t put up with it.

And seeing that its only a high school game, what's the downside? Forfeit? BFD.

edutcher said...

somefeller said...

The parents are hypocritical liberals, to be sure, but even hypocrites are afraid for their own children. Everyone else's can go screw.

I didn't see a reference to the voting behavior or ideology of the parents in the article. But, don't let me stop your two minutes hate against the big bad liberals!


i'm betting someone who knows the Hi-town 'burbs could tell us the ideological makeup of the Payton parents.

Considering they live that close to Tippytoes' Socialist Workers Paradise, the odds are pretty good they're good little Lefties, but I'm sure there's somebody here who could nail it down, one way or the other.

edutcher said...

s/b Chi-town, not Hi-town (although that probably works, too).

NotquiteunBuckley said...

nalert.blogspot.com.


Bartin is a Buckley bashing anti-Skull and Bonesman of the first order, but that aside he catalogs well Chicago and the horrors it has dispersed across our great nation.

Hate that city.

HATE IT.

David Hampton said...

I played basketball Southern California. Attended High School in Compton. Never did like busing over to the Watts area even though we lost whenever we played there. After the game was over, usually around 8:00 p.m. we had to drive the gamut with the windows up as the locals threw eggs, rocks, bottles, etc. at us. As for shootings in Chicago, too many folks get hit by errant shots, cross-fire, and other random acts of violence. Diversity education, what a crock that is, is dangerous and not worth the risk. We don't have to experience first hand the genocide in black neighborhoods when we can read about it from a safe distance. The hypocrisy of the liberals regarding violence is inexcusable. They willfully choose to ignore inner city violence in the U.S. while giving a pass to Obama for blowing up civilians in Afghanistan (which I agree with) as collateral damage to high value targets. Racism? Don't think so.

n.n said...

Denigrating individual dignity, and devaluing human life, to advance political, economic, and social standing, has its consequences.

The individuals, businesses, and government agencies that perpetuate class divisions need to establish a different revenue stream.

mccullough said...

Pogo,

They shouldn't join the team in the first place. The schedule is no mystery. But they fucked over their teammates and the other team. I'm not blaming the players I'm blaming their parents. If you're afraid then don't join the team. It's that simple.

Rob McLean said...

I'm shocked nobody has brought up Jim Croce yet.

Rob McLean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

I guess my Dad was a pussy and a whiner for leaving Chicago in 1969.

Parents do what they think is best. We had a dozen siblings, so could afford to lose one or two in the scheme of things.

But the liberals at North have invested everything in one or two. No point risking it.

More, they might be fearing that their kids develop anti -black sentiment if something bad happens.

So they feel all ugly about it, and they want to continue to pretend that MLK Drive stands for hope.

Lem said...

“This is probably one of the most embarrassing moments I’ve had,” said Wittleder, who has coached high school baseball for 10 seasons and is in his second year as Payton’s head coach. “It’s very heartbreaking. This is totally against what I believe in.”

What is embarrassing is that coach... whatshisname? Whittlehead here, seems to be speculating beyond the scope of his role as a coach, questioning the judgment of the parents that keep him employed.

If I was one of those safety concerned parents, I start a petition to get his scratchy ridiculous ass fired.

The coach needs to be able to count to 3 strikes to know that a kid is out... the parents are just counting to one.

mccullough said...

Pogo,

People have irrational fear. That's common. Many people want to ban guns because hey don't trust fellow citizens to use them responsibly.

There's never been a shooting during a baseball game there. Not when it was Mendel High School. Not when it was Martin de Porres High School. And not since its been Brooks High School.

Seeing Red said...

Swing & miss. The information would have given your the answer to your comment.

Pogo said...

I dunno, mccullough.

Some parents are stupid and paid no attention to the schedule when they let their boy sign up for baseball. Shit, I never looked where my son's track meets were gonna be.

Now the liberals find out that the Jews have to play in Palestine.

Yeah, they're pussies, where, and stupid for not looking into it. Only in liberal strongholds do parents have to know what teams are on the schedule before deciding if their kid can join high school hoops.

mccullough said...

Lem,

Why should the coach be blamed? Don't let your kid join the team in the first place. Again, there is no mystery to the fucking schedule. The kids should quit. The parents are just ignorant as to the dangers. But they shouldn't be allowed to be ignorant and stupid. And it's just stupid to let your kid join the team in the first place.

Michael said...

Mccullough. Look at it this way, the South Side won a game they probabably would have lost. Lost because the Northsiders have better fields, better coaching, more balls and bats and gloves and ball machines. Oh, and fathers. See? Injustice abounds. The economic gulf is so vast the South side can only excell in neglecting its children, creating and supporting excellent gang organizations and a deepseated hatred of acting white. So the cowardly Northsiders who read the papers and watch the news decided to let this one game go. For the children.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

I don't mind being a pussy, although I agree there are drawbacks (ironically regarding pussy as it were).

Do you mind facilitating death and violence with your tough guy attitude?

That's the issue in Chicago right, young tough guys being tougher than the other tough young guys? A culture you represent, absent in cities like Milwaukee or Minneapolis for instance.

Pogo said...

I do see your point, mccollough.

It is unfair of the parents to have backed out.

But it does point out how awful behavior has become in Chicago, at least the part the news sees fit to write Bout.

I would have been pissed if my son were on the team.

But I have great sympathy for the fears people have about thuggery in big cities. Maybe this will have a good side effect.

AllenS said...

mccullough, do you still live in Chicago? When did you live there?

mccullough said...

Pogo,

It's always other people who have to live with the consequences of some people's fear and stupidity.

Walter Payton HS is a public school in Chicago. Who the fuck did these stupid, cowardly parents think they were going to play?

AllenS said...

Isn't there a community organizer for that part of Chicago? He could probably fix anything that is wrong.

somefeller said...

Swing & miss. The information would have given your the answer to your comment.

The neighborhood crime stats would have given us the partisan and ideological breakdown of the neighborhood of the parents who decided to pull their kids out of the game? Please explain, with supporting data, of course.

mccullough said...

Pogo,

The city is way safer. That's the funniest part. These parents are the same people who want to disarm society even though violence in the US is way lower and gun ownership is way up.

Allen S, I'm 42 and grew up in the city and still live there.

Chip S. said...

Walter Payton College Preparatory High School is a magnet school on the near north side of Chicago that US News ranks as the 45th best hs in the US.

Its enrollment is 24% black, 26% Hispanic, 10% Asian, 6% mixed-race, and 33% white.

No data yet on the racial mix of the baseball team.

Chip S. said...

Who the fuck did these stupid, cowardly parents think they were going to play?

Settle down and re-read the article. It appears that this game may have been pushed back to 7 PM b/c Payton HS had to play a makeup game that afternoon. Given how difficult it sometimes is to reschedule games, this may all have been arranged at the last minute.

Plus, the fatal shooting of that driver in Pullman only happened the day before. It's common for people to react strongly to new info.

elkh1 said...

"The parents are just ignorant as to the dangers."

Are they? Those are their kids, not politicians' hypothetical kids to go to make a point. The parent "escaped" from there, he knows.

jacksonjay said...


Get your dogs under control if you want visitors.

What is the old saying, "No such thing as a bad dog, just bad owners"!

somefeller said...

But Chip S., those stats don't matter. What matters is whether the parents are liberals and therefore hypocritical pussy meanie-meanies. Or at least that's what matters to the ax-grinder set today.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

This is a link to what the City of Chicago makes people do.

**WARNING CONTAINS GRAPHIC FOOTAGE**

Lem said...

And it's just stupid to let your kid join the team in the first place.

I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of these concerned parents.

A mother was running a marathon, just two weeks ago, and her kid was killed at the finished line... We were so grief stricken, we, right here on this blog, wanted to blame the mother - why was she running a marathon?... why was this kid even there? and so on.

These parents are connecting some dots that maybe, before the events in Boston, they would not have connected.

Are they a little bit over the top?

That's your judgment... They have as much right to make their own.

I'm not "blaming" the coach for anything... read what I wrote.

mccullough said...

ChipS

Is that 45th best public HS? Payton and North Side prep were started in late '90s so whites/Asians on the north side would stay in the city without having to pay the high tuition of schools like Latin.

elkh1 said...

AllenS said...
Isn't there a community organizer for that part of Chicago?

The community organizer sides with the slum lords.

Rusty said...

Hey! Anybody remember Cabrini Green? Driving east on Division just off the Kennedy and wondering if tonight was the night your car got shot at?



There's never been a shooting during a baseball game there. Not when it was Mendel High School. Not when it was Martin de Porres High School. And not since its been Brooks High School.


Good. Play Russian roulette with your own kids.

used tom work in a little shop on Leavit just south of Hubbard. I forget the cross street. The parking lot was fenced so your car wouldn't get broken into. That didn't mean your car wouldn't be shot full of holes or set on fire.
Sometimes the neighborhood scamps liked to throw a nearly dead dog over the fence. The owner had a .22 pistol to put them down.
The cops never came. Animal control never came.
After a couple of months I took the hint. The locals didn't want me there.

jacksonjay said...


Didn't the Queen Bee, Michelle Hussein Obama visit Chi-town a few weeks ago to decry the violence! As I recall it was the funeral of the 15 yr old girl caught in the crossfire!

edutcher said...

Payton Prep is in the 27th Ward in Chicago and had 0 Romney votes.

Good enough?

mccullough said...

Chip,

What fatal shooting? The story said the guy was shot by someone who lived on the block. Didn't say he was dead. Also it doesn't say the game was pushed back. There's weekend night games and weeknight night games.

mccullough said...

Rusty,

Payton High Schools right near where Cabrini used to be. And Leavitt and Hubbard is some expensive real state these days. Have you been to Chicago since 1985?

Chip S. said...

Yes, it's 45th among public HS's.

Apparently it has pretty successful sports teams, including baseball, as well as high test scores.

Admission appears to be based on test scores, w/ weighting factors to ensure a diverse student body.

mccullough said...

The safest solution is to disarm all of society. Then there will be no bad neighborhoods and everyone will be safe. Let fear and ignorance prevail.

Chip S. said...

mccullogh, see my first comment for a link to the story about the guy shot while driving.

As for the time of the game, no I don't know if it was pushed back to accommodate the other game. I only say it's possible, given the few facts at hand.

I doubt very much that anyone was worried about being attacked during the game. I think it's the drive home late on a Saturday night that they were worried about.

somefeller said...

Payton Prep is in the 27th Ward in Chicago and had 0 Romney votes. Good enough?

No, because you haven't provided a link to that data and that data is of little relevance because magnet schools draw from broad areas.

Much more importantly, no one has provided voting or ideological data about the specific parents in question, so anything said about their purported ideology is conjecture that says more about the resentments and obsessions about the people talking about the parents than the parents themselves.

ndspinelli said...

Wait a fuckn' minute! I just realized the school. When we go to Chicago[often] we stay on or near Michigan Ave. I HAVE WALKED BY THIS SCHOOL..IT'S NOT INNER CITY!! I lived in Chicago, and as just stated, often visit. This school is a SHORT stroll from the Miracle Mile! I assumed we were talking real southside. mccullough, I now understand your incredulity. Just because there was a murder nearby does not change the fact that this is a NOT a dangerous neighborhood. I know dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago. I've worked in dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago. This is NOT dangerous neighborhood unless you're a pussy.

Rusty said...

mccullough said...
Rusty,

Payton High Schools right near where Cabrini used to be. And Leavitt and Hubbard is some expensive real state these days. Have you been to Chicago since 1985?

Yeah.
And I still avoid those places where "innocent bystander" is the mark of death.
It's a corrupt crappy city where the bribed don't stay bought.

Seeing Red said...

As usual, incurious. Why do I have to explain? You assume one way, others assume the other, you have what you need at your fingertips, go ahead.

Methadras said...

A parents instinct to protect their children vs. the embarrassment of appearing to be bigoted, prejudiced, or racist. Which condition do you think will win?

ndspinelli said...

I know..Cabrini Green was not far from The Miracle Mile..but this is not that ilk, not even close. edutcher, IT'S CHICAGO..ALL WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS VOTE STRAIGHT DEM!

Chip S. said...

spinelli, the game was to be played in Pullman, not at Payton Prep's home field.

Rabel said...

I don't know too much about the South Side of Chicago, but I have to wonder if, as Rob noted, Leroy Brown was involved.

If not Leroy, then maybe this sort of thing.

Lem said...

If the game is so dam important, why not negotiate with the parents and promise a police presence?

There are any number of ways around this... but instead of thinking about those... and w/o proffering any evidence, other than the legitimate concerns of the parents, racism goes up the flag pole.

Ad Hominem said...

Couldn't this all be solved by arming the players and umpires? The only way to stop a bad guy shooting from the stands is a good left fielder shooting into the stands.

mccullough said...

Rusty,

Do you live in Mayberry?

somefeller said...

Why do I have to explain?

Based on your prior comment, you're the brilliant pebble that seems to have figured out the way to determine the ideology of the Northside parents by the crime stats in their neighborhood. It's up to you to prove your theory. Educate us.

edutcher said...

somefeller said...

Payton Prep is in the 27th Ward in Chicago and had 0 Romney votes. Good enough?

No, because you haven't provided a link to that data and that data is of little relevance because magnet schools draw from broad areas.


Fuck you.

27th ward map showing 1034 N Wells.

Election results of 27th and surrounding wards 2012.

Tell me again how all those Conservatives voted for Zero?

PS Your little rant about how not Mirandizing Joker was so terribly brilliant didn't work out so well, did it?

mccullough said...

Lem,

There would be at least one cop car there as standard.

Maybe we could get the TSA involved.

El Pollo Real said...

ndspinelli exclaimed:
Wait a fuckn' minute! I just realized the school. When we go to Chicago[often] we stay on or near Michigan Ave. I HAVE WALKED BY THIS SCHOOL..IT'S NOT INNER CITY!! I lived in Chicago, and as just stated, often visit. This school is a SHORT stroll from the Miracle Mile! I assumed we were talking real southside. mccullough, I now understand your incredulity. Just because there was a murder nearby does not change the fact that this is a NOT a dangerous neighborhood. I know dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago. I've worked in dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago. This is NOT dangerous neighborhood unless you're a pussy.

That right there is chirbit material.

Rabel said...

Payton, the school that cancelled, is 65% minority. So why the assumption that the complaining parents were white?

Lem said...

Maybe we could get the TSA involved.

No... I want UN weapons inspectors.

Ipso Fatso said...

ndspinelli, the game was to be played on the far southside not at Payton on the near northside.

El Pollo Real said...

mccullough said...
Rusty,

Do you live in Mayberry?


You sound like you live in loft.

NTTAWWT

somefeller said...

Nice link, edutcher. And as I pointed out already, not particularly relevant to the specifics here. And as I also said, the assumptions and comments about the liberalism of the parents says more about the obsessions of those making them than anything else. But keep on fighting the good fight!

SteveR said...

I never understood the idea that parents should put their kids in a situation they think is risky just to prove they aren't racists.

In this situation you should know enough ahead of time to decide that its not something you want to do, avoid the not going to this game drama. All in or out.

mccullough said...

SteveR,

I agree. It's really the stupidity of the parents that's the worst part.

Lem said...

A cursory Goggle search turned this up.

Chip S. said...

I'm trying to figure out how it is that parents who decide to live in Winnetka to keep their kids safe are racists, while the ones who send their kids to a magnet school so they can live in the city are racists.

Actually, I'm not trying to figure that out at all.

AFAICT, this is a story about the (possible) overreaction of a few parents who are deeply invested in their kids' college prospects to a news story about a (possibly) random fatal shooting of a guy driving his car somewhere near their route home from an unusually late-night baseball game.

BTW, according to the original sports calendar for Payton Prep, the baseball team was supposed to play a doubleheader on the north side against Holy Trinity. So it certainly appears that this was some kind of recent revision to the original schedule.

AllenS said...

The school is closer to Gary, Indiana than the Miracle Mile.

mccullough said...

Lem,

You forgot to link Newtown as well. Or the Boston Marathon. There were over 40,000 people killed driving last year. I think we should all stay inside for ever. It's much safer. It's for the children.

mccullough said...

ChipS

Holy Trinity is a dangerous place. A kid might get sodomized by a priest. Brooks is safer.

Chip S. said...

Dropped an important "not" in the first paragraph of my 12:08 comment, but at this point, what does it matter?

ndspinelli said...

My bad..I was talking out of my ass but forgot to stand on my head. The neighborhood in question is bad. Payton is the good neighborhood. However, I love my son and would have let him play there.

Chip S. said...

I once spent a Saturday afternoon and evening in the waiting area of an ER on the south side of Chicago. It was amazing to observe the steadily increasing severity of the newly arriving injuries as the night wore on.

If this game had been scheduled to end at 7 PM instead of starting then, I'm pretty sure the game would've been played.

El Pollo Real said...

Thank you, Chip S. --and the one who shall not be named--for being voices of reason.

mccullough said...

ChipS

Some of the best trauma surgeons I the world in those hospitals. No place you'd rather be shot than the South Side of Chicago.

Michael said...

Mccollough. You have two boys! Awesome. Why not invest in a nice house way down there on the south side around where this game was to be played. Excellent prices I am told. Your sons can learn then that your sanctimony is deserved. You could coach and get to know the other fathers in the neighborhood.

Chip S. said...

Some of the best trauma surgeons I the world in those hospitals. No place you'd rather be shot than the South Side of Chicago.

The efficiency of the market never ceases to impress.

El Pollo Real said...

By the way, what white enclave do you live in? North Dakota?

Who pulled mcculloch's pull starter? She's taking a chain saw to the entire Midwest.

Yep, urban loft-dweller.

virgil xenophon said...

Two names: Ben Wilson and Michael Haynes..

AllenS said...

I served in Viet Nam. I never could understand why others refused to go.

Ipso Fatso said...

"However, I love my son and would have let him play there."

I would have let my kid play there as well, just not at 7pm on a Saturday night. Your mileage may vary.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
The efficiency of the market never ceases to impress.


Actually that would almost certainly be socialized medicine in this case.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Hurray for those parents. A welcome glimmer of hope, at last.

It's not just individuals, but neighborhoods and cultures too that should be judged by the content of their character.

m stone said...

This could turn out to be romance.

traditionalguy said...

What do the "let's pretend the South side of Chicago is civilized and safe" people not understand about the word NO?

I guarantee no child of the Mayor of Chicago or the President of the USA goes there without their serious armed guards

Answer is provide the same level of armed guards and we will go there.

William said...

The parents are being conscientious. It is a form of bigotry to label them as either cowardly or racist. There are, for sure, better ways of handling this, but shaming conscientious parents is not one of them.

edutcher said...

somefeller said...

Nice link, edutcher. And as I pointed out already, not particularly relevant to the specifics here. And as I also said, the assumptions and comments about the liberalism of the parents says more about the obsessions of those making them than anything else. But keep on fighting the good fight!

Sure, when in doubt, always deny.

And the fact all those wards went 100% for Choom means absolutely nothing. Only in your universe.

Give it up, moron. You lost.

And cute trying to duck how badly you screwed up on the Mirandizing.

PS Did you know the hallowed theory of not Mirandizing only goes back to John Ashcroft, post 9/11? Shame you had to try to defend something from the Dark Side.

El Pollo Real said...

mccullough said...Fucking white liberals.

That's either bigotry or self-loathing. Either way, it's ugly.

Chip S. said...

Actually that would almost certainly be socialized medicine in this case.

Um, no. To this point, doctors have been free to choose their places of work, and trauma centers have to bid for them.

When fully socialized medicine kicks in we'll see just what happens to the supply of doctors.

Michael said...

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20121205/roseland/armed-gang-robbing-teens-outside-high-school

Seems like the students need guards to get in and out of Mccolloughs alma mater.

mccullough said...

It's a rough school Michael. A lot of good kids there. They have courage. You don't.

Chip S. said...

To anyone who thinks that the parents should have known ahead of time that their kids were going to be scheduled to play a Sat. night game in Pullman, here's the complete published Payton Prep baseball schedule.

No game w/ Brooks HS appears on it. Clearly, the schedule was changed at some point, but we don't know when.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
When fully socialized medicine kicks in


When the government is footing most if not all of the bill, that's socialized medicine. Even in Australia, with decades of fully socialized medicine, doctors are free to move around the country. They are not serfs.

Chip S. said...

It's pretty cool that Payton Prep plays baseball against the Chicago Bulls, tho.

(Yes, mccullogh, I know that's the name of another HS.)

Michael said...

Mccullough. Now how is it that you conclude I am without courage? Because i found and linked an article that mase it clear your old alma mater is in a dangerous place? And if those are courageous kids who attend why did they need police escorts? You seem to be a bit touchy.

Chip S. said...

Define stuff any way you want. Just don't think you're being reasonable.

somefeller said...

Edutcher snarls:And the fact all those wards went 100% for Choom means absolutely nothing. Only in your universe.

In this context, it doesn't. Stick with the topic.

Give it up, moron. You lost.

Self-declared victory is always convincing.

And cute trying to duck how badly you screwed up on the Mirandizing.

Not sure what the relevance of that issue is here, but if you want to discuss it, perhaps you can provide quotations of my comments and how they were wrong. If memory serves, the topic was the constitutionality of Miranda exceptions, not a claim that the Feds would or should never Mirandize the Boston suspect.

PS Did you know the hallowed theory of not Mirandizing only goes back to John Ashcroft, post 9/11? Shame you had to try to defend something from the Dark Side.

The jurisprudence of Miranda exceptions precedes Ashcroft, actually, and informs any conversation on that topic. And I have no problem defending proper actions by Republicans or conservatives. I leave the mindless partisanship to people like you.

Dante said...

You can argue that the volume of crime is less than 20 years ago, but that's because the numbers are increasingly faked, just as they are in Britain.

This chart shows deltas in violent crime of greater than 8X. Add to that some people look different, and who knows what is going to happen.

Alex said...

What was garage's point? That Chicagoland is some utopia we should strive to?

Farmer said...

Late to the party, but I bought drugs not too far from there in the 80s (around 125th and Indiana). It was a ghetto then. I can't imagine it's any better now. I sure as hell wouldn't have my kids playing baseball anywhere near there, at any time of day.

mccullough said...

They need police escorts, Michael, because they're not allowed to carry guns.

Alex said...

Can we purge the commie bastards?

Paco Wové said...

As a long-time observer of comment threads, it is still always fascinating to see a commenter go through a meltdown experience.

edutcher said...

Sure.

The issue is the Payton parents were a pack of snooty Liberals (just like you). This was proven, if only by their location (how many Conservatives in the Windy City, after all?) and by the voting stats.

Some phony folksy is an arrogant Lefty asshole who can't resist shooting off his mouth with anything to back it up. When caught, he always falls back on demanding proof you're wrong, rather than backing up his own undocumented nonsense. When provided with said proof, he always says it's not enough.

And the doctrine used by Holder was specifically based on Ashctoft's idea.

AReasonableMan said...

Paco Wové said...
As a long-time observer of comment threads, it is still always fascinating to see a commenter go through a meltdown experience.


You clearly do not read edutcher's posts on pretty much any topic.

mccullough said...

Farmer

It's a safe neighborhood for white people. Like you the white people are there mostly to buy drugs. The gangs won't tolerate people fucking with their customers.

Chip S. said...

The issue is the Payton parents were a pack of snooty Liberals (just like you). This was proven, if only by their location

What part of "magnet school" do you not understand?

Michael Haz said...

What time was the game scheduled to be played? 7PM? Okay, if you think the parents were racist to not send their children there, then show your support by going to that neighborhood yourself at 7PM and walking around for a couple of hours.

No one will do that, because everyone knows the truth even though their liberality causes them to not want to admit it.

somefeller said...

Poor edutcher. He's never understood that argument by assertion doesn't constitute proof of anything and his reading comprehension skills aren't very strong. And he gets obsessed with various shiny objects. It's both tragic and comic, so I guess it's tragicomic.

mccullough said...

Who said the parents were racist? They are ignorant but not racist.

edutcher said...

And some phony folksy just hates to admit he shot of his mouth without checking if his brain was loaded.

Again.

mccullough said...

Michael

There's a difference between a high school baseball game and hanging out in a neighborhood. There has never been a shooting at a high school baseball game in Chicago. It's not Atlanta.

Rabel said...

From "Chicago Area Ethnic Handbook:
A Guide to the Cultures and Traditions of Chicago's Diverse Communities"

"Demographics:
In 1990 Chicago African Americans made up about 40% of the population. By 2010, with considerable migration to the suburbs, it’s closer to 33%.

Most are concentrated on the South Side, from 26th Street to 131st Street and from Ashland Avenue to Lake Michigan; on the West Side from Garfield Park to the city limits, between Lake Street and Cermak Road; and in a relatively compact settlement on the near North Side, west of Halsted and south of Division Street.

These three areas are contiguous and form the condition that caused population experts to call Chicago “the most racially segregated city in the United States.”

In these areas there is a considerable amount of education and affluence and a tremendous amount of poverty.

There are African Americans, Africans and Afro-Caribbeans throughout the city, including the far North Side, but an estimated 90-95% live in these three areas. No other ancestry group is so segregated."

Segregation is Chicago's problem.

Integration is the solution.

traditionalguy said...

Judeo-Christian civilization reminders in schools were outlawed by your friendly SCOTUS 50 years ago eliminating any authority that can restrain evil. We are not worthy of that protection according to the dimwits on the Court.

The last days are said to be the days when the good are getting better and the bad getting badder.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Dear Mr. Chickie -

Try a Chirbit like this:

"Like vultures to a carcass, Althouse's commenters flock to a post about race and security...

Clearly nothing short of 190 comments will do..."

Overlay on top of it the soundtrack to Days of Our Lives... "Like sands through the hourglass..."

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Does she live in a box?

She is totally out of her gourd.

And I say this as someone who can get a bit crazy from time to time myself.

Freeman Hunt said...

I went to crimereports.com and ran a map of violent crimes from March first until today in the area around Palmer Park. (Is that the right location?) I don't know if it's normally like this, but it does appear that there is currently an acute problem with violent crime there.

The people who should be embarrassed are the ones responsible for maintaining law and order around there: parents, government officials, cops, etc.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

You clearly do not read edutcher's posts on pretty much any topic.

Paco doesn't read at all. He just counts comments.

Anglelyne said...

mccullough:

Other than me, did anyone grow up in Chicago?

Those kids' parents?

somefeller said...

Chip S. asks edutcher a question: What part of "magnet school" do you not understand?

Many parts, Chip, many parts. Thus the tragicomedy.

Mctammaryannmclaughlin said...

This game was on the original schedule ,probably a rain make up.

LilyBart said...

"Who said the parents were racist? They are ignorant but not racist.

I don't know about the relative safely of this particular area, but if the danger is real, then the kids shouldn't be asked to go play there. And we should do what we can to help the people who live there.

But ugly name-calling to parents who are genuinely concerned about the safety of their kids is not right either.

This is why our kids don't "belong to all of us", and why they shouldn't. Because the collective would send kids into a dangerous area to avoid 'hurting' feelings or to prove they aren't racist or something.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

When fully socialized medicine kicks in we'll see just what happens to the supply of doctors.

Lol Chip. As in France, Canada and every other country 'cept Amurka, they'll be outlawed don'tcha know?

Liammctam said...

This game was on the original schedule ,probably a rain make up.

garage mahal said...

When fully socialized medicine kicks in we'll see just what happens to the supply of doctors.

Great take.

Chip Ahoy said...

The trauma unit at Denver General is so good it has a book about it. Knife and Guns Club

$225 for a brand spanking new one. That's a dollar per page.

Coffeetable book. Black and white. ick. What would you reach for? A big fat Robert Sabuda pop-up book about dinosaurs, a portfolio book about Egyptian treasures, one per page, or b/w trauma center at Denver?

Now it's called Denver Health. It's a few blocks south of here and I was admitted there once. Experiencing their trauma procedures. It's horrible. On a Saturday night, a broken femur is small potatoes triage-wise so I sat there for 24 hours holding my broken leg. Biggest mistake I ever made, going there. And the whole place is like a time-warped zone.

Divided by curtains, the guy next to me is handcuffed to his gurney. He's mad because he has to piss and nobody is paying attention so he has to just wet the bed. He was low priority too.

On the other side, more sweetly, I overheard a female doctor ask in textbook sounding Spanish, "¿Sus padres saben que ustedes embarazada?" Do your parents know you are pregnant?

TIL the shots fired at the 420 festival happened at Civic Park, not City Park, so just two blocks north of here. The gunshots were rival gangs that encountered each in the vicinity of the festival. People fleeing ran past my home but I didn't notice anything unusual at all, in fact I had no idea a festival was happening. There was actually more noise last night with fireworks for some reason, a long show too, and noise this morning from a musical band. And there is noise now, but a 420 multi-state gathering with gunshots did not even register.

So. You get shot two blocks that way, and a good trauma for shooting two blocks the other direction.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Is it just me or is this one of the most random and convoluted threads we've seen here in a while?

Chip S. said...

Only since you got here.

mccullough said...

Lily,

What part of the "collective" forced these kids to join the team?

If you don't want to play then don't join the team. Is that a "collectivist" sentiment?

Gene said...

This guy has coached 10 years. This is the first batch of pussy parents he's had.

It's astonishing how brave some people here are with other people's kids.

Ipso Fatso said...

FYI, last year Payton played Brooks on 3/17 @ Brooks (lost 19-9)at 4:15pm. I still stand by my view that I would not let my kids play there at 7pm on a Saturday night. 250 E. 11th Street on a Saturday night, no thanks.

mccullough said...

Gene,

How many games have been played at that park over the past 30 years? Thousands. How many shootings? None.

How is this not an irrational fear?

Ipso Fatso said...

Correction: 250 E. 111th Street. My bad.

Chip S. said...

mccullough, why do you persist in asserting that the parents were worried about violence on the field?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Nah, I think it was before that, Chip. (Are you still upset 'bout our last debate?) Anyway, it makes sense since random violence in American cities is by definition a topic choice that invites observations that are equally random. And no, I wouldn't have wanted my meager four comments to have been any less random.

But by now I find myself wanting for a theme...

edutcher said...

somefeller said...

Chip S. asks edutcher a question: What part of "magnet school" do you not understand?

Many parts, Chip, many parts. Thus the tragicomedy.


I understand magnet school, that's why I included the voting records of the SURROUNDING wards. I can go wider, I have a feeling they're all going to look like that.

The tragicomedy is not that Chip may not have discerned that, but that some phony folksy is so desperate for support that he'll take that of someone who made an honest, but glaring, mistake.

This is why his life is lurking in Mom's basement.

mccullough said...

Chip,

It's a straight ride off the highway there. The police district and Area 2 detective headquarters are right there on 111th just off the highway about 4 blocks from the park. There is police there at the park during games.

There is nothing to be afraid of.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

mccullough-stop repeating that if parents didn't want their kids to play they shouldn't have joined the team. It's a baseball team, not a travel-to-dangerous-neighborhoods-at-night team. One of my kids' team forfeited a game rather than play on a field that was littered with garbage including broken glass. We signed up to play ball with the expectation that said ball-playing would take place under reasonably safe conditions. Obviously 'reasonably safe' is subjective but stop behaving as though accepting a position on the team obligates one to refrain from risk assessment.

mccullough said...

IHMMP,

If your schedule includes playing in dangerous neighborhoods, then that is part of being on the team.

People need to take responsibility and quit making excuses.

somefeller said...

This is why his life is lurking in Mom's basement.

And tragicomedy is joined by cliche. Most amusing. Keep up the good work!

Inga said...

McCullough, they didn't join the Army, they joined a sports team.

furious_a said...

McCullough: But don't join the team and then fuck it up for the real ball players.

Yes, like the Brits during the Troubles, we must all accustom ourselves -- and risk our kids -- to an Acceptable Level of Violence.

Chip S. said...

If your schedule includes playing in dangerous neighborhoods...

I posted a link to the Payton Prep schedule. No dangerous neighborhoods were on it. If that schedule is incorrect in any way, by all means link to a correction.

Why and when the schedule was changed is a missing part of the story as of now. I'd call it an "important" part of the story if I thought this story was really important.

El Pollo Real said...


Chip, good luck getting the chain saw to give up insisting that the parents were "Fucking white liberals."

mccullough said...
These kids play every year throughout the city. This is the first batch of cowardly parents. If the kids don't want to play in these games they shouldn't have joined the team. Throw them off the team and get some ball players.

Fucking white liberals.


Once said, you can't walk that back.

To recap:

(1) Games have been safely played there for 30 years;
(2) For 30 years, north side parents have allowed their children to play there.

As Chip pointed out, the time change and a recent shooting spooked the parents. But that's somehow unreasonable in the mind of mccullough.

LilyBart said...

What part of the "collective" forced these kids to join the team?

If you don't want to play then don't join the team. Is that a "collectivist" sentiment?


I was making a reference to that horrible MSNBC woman who said kids belong to all of us.

The parents need to decide if a situation is too dangerous - the coach and the school seem to have have other priorities, I think.

I don't know if this area is THAT dangerous, or not. But if it is, no kid should be sent in just because its on the schedule.

The parents could form a club league and have more control over the schedule.

But no high school baseball game is worth dying over - especially for some 'socially correct' goal.

TosaGuy said...

White liberals such as these in the city frequently call suburbanites racist because they fled the city for safer schools and place to live. Time to hold them to their own standard.

Chip S. said...

Wait a minute. Now that I know these parents were a bunch of fuckin' libs, I can see what the real problem was: A Sat. night game conflicted w/their white-wine-and-brie parties.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
Define stuff any way you want. Just don't think you're being reasonable.


Chip, I respect your point of view on the relative advantages of capitalism versus government in many areas but health care is not an area where hard-core capitalism works very well given our current concepts of morality. In a purely capitalist system, in the absence of any government subsidies, the good folks of South Chicago would be lucky to get the local butcher to perform their surgery.

El Pollo Real said...

Let me hazard a guess: it is very important to mccullough that he/she gets to call the parents cowards. It doesn't mean everything...it's the only thing that matters.

Chip S. said...

OK, ARM.

It was just that the Chicago ER I was talking about was in a private hospital. No big deal tho.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

A Sat. night game conflicted w/their white-wine-and-brie parties.

Do you have an alternative favorite appetizer and intoxicant, Mr. Smarty Pants?

We could stand to swap the white wine for champagne but brie is still second only to gouda, if that, even. Keep the Cheetos at home.

"Dear Lord Baby Jesus, we thank you so much for this bountiful harvest of Dominos, KFC, and the always delicious Taco Bell."

Chip S. said...

El Pollo, mccullough went to a Catholic HS housed in that bldg a couple of decades ago. My crappy internet diagnosis is that mcc's exhibiting pride in having gone there.

AllenS said...

I would no more call these parents cowards in this situation, than I would have if the roads would have been icy.

Inga said...

Triple cream Brie, mmmm, mmmm, good.

Michael K said...

This is not the first example of parents not allowing their kids to go to the South Side (where I grew up) to play games. There was a case a few years ago where a school forfeited a game with St Sabina, the school and church where radical priest Pfleger holds forth. I used to go the school dances at that school gym but I wouldn't want my kids there now. Especially with the race baiting.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Wait, so health care wasn't a purely capitalist enterprise before Obama got his grubby fingers on it? I'm shocked! And to think that those physician education cartels known as "medical schools" were decreasing supply and driving up a demand mismatch all along! Wow.

furious_a said...

real ball players

More Chicago macho bullshit, spouted by a resident of a thug city controlled by a corrupt political machine.

Chicago Homicides Outnumber U.S. Troop Killings In Afghanistan

As Chicago deals with a surge of murders that, thus far this year, has outpaced that of U.S. troops in Afghanistan, the Chicago Police Department has assigned at least 100 officers to secure the wedding of White House advisor Valerie Jarrett's daughter.

Chip S. said...

You libtard pussy, Ritmo.

We wingnuts prefer Budweiser, Doritos, and Allman's.

Stephan White said...

Some parents are stupid and paid no attention to the schedule when they let their boy sign up for baseball.
Glyn Willmoth

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Looks backwoodsy, Chip - but I'll trust Ricky Bobby's portrayal of conservative dining tastes over yours. Capitalism's a'comin' to North Carolina, all over Dixie, and those endorsement contracts need endorsin'!

El Pollo Real said...

"Dear Lord Baby Jesus, we thank you so much for this bountiful harvest of Dominos, KFC, and the always delicious Taco Bell."

I count two anti-hispanic remarks there - one about mexican dominoes and the second regarding a Mexican telecommunications firm. The reference to KFC was pretty "shady" as well.

Michael K said...

Interesting discussion.

I just got back from my grand daughter's soccer game. They are in first place. They played today the second place team but were two players short because three of the kids on the team are Mormons and don't play on Sunday. They still won.

The lesson ? Real players can still win short handed.

Chip S. said...

Some parents are stupid and paid no attention to the schedule when they let their boy sign up for baseball.

Some commenters are stupid and pay no attention to the rest of the thread when they show up at Althouse.

Gene said...

McCullough: If you don't want to play then don't join the team.

Here's an even better idea. Join the team and then work to make it better. Let the coach know that the team doesn't appreciate having to wear flak jackets on the bench just because the coach has a diversity fetish.

This isn't the fifties anymore. The coach doesn't own the team. It's for the benefit of the payers, not the coach's psychological needs.

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