April 28, 2013

"A baseball game between two Chicago public high schools was canceled Saturday when some parents from a North Side school..."

"... refused to let their children travel to the South Side for the game, saying they were worried about the safety of their kids."
"This is probably one of the most embarrassing moments I’ve had,” said [William] Wittleder, who has coached high school baseball for 10 seasons and is in his second year as Payton’s head coach. “It’s very heartbreaking. This is totally against what I believe in.”

302 comments:

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mccullough said...

Chip,

I can't find the Brooks baseball schedule on Brooks website.

Furious, your a moron. There are a lot of good people in Chicago just like there are throughout the country. Call Chicago whatever you want but ignorant is ignorant.

As far as macho bullshit, its nothing of the kind. Kids have been playing there a long time and will continue to do it. Baseball is a great game and high school is the last time most kids will play. It's bullshit to cancel a game over irrational fear. But you seem like a guy who lives with irrational fear a d ignorance.

Chip S. said...

mccullough, it was the Payton schedule I linked to.

mccullough said...

Chip

I understand it was the Payton schedule. I was looking for th Brooks schedule to see if the game was listed on there. Just trying to be thorough.

furious_a said...

mccullough: Call Chicago whatever you want but ignorant is ignorant.

I'll just call Chicago what one of its own publications calls it:

Gangs and Politicians in Chicago: An Unholy Alliance

You must be SO proud.

Michael K said...

" In a purely capitalist system, in the absence of any government subsidies, the good folks of South Chicago would be lucky to get the local butcher to perform their surgery."

I guess we had socialism before 1965 and didn't know it.

Ritmo, the French system has a series of health care funds that are funded by paycheck deductions. Only a small part is government funded. That part is growing because the British expats who are fleeing to France refuse to go back to Britain for health care.

The French system, which would have been a great model for our reform in a rational world, has a fixed fee schedule but the patient and doctor have the right to pay and charge more. The real charge just has to be disclosed up front. Here it is illegal to charge more and the real prices are artificially concealed by Medicare and insurance companies.

It is very different from the NHS and the Canadian system.

mccullough said...

Gene,

The coach doesn't set the schedule. I don't know what "diversity" has to do with playing baseball games against your scheduled opponent.

It's not the 50s or 80s or 00s. Who cares. If you sign up for the team then play. Take some responsibility. Don't whine.

mccullough said...

Furious,

I'm sure where you live everything is great. But not everyone can live in Mayberry.

Chip S. said...

mccullough, I'm just addressing the question of what the Payton parents could have reasonably expected.

I think we've covered all the bases. I'm gonna walk now.

mccullough said...

Furious,

I love North Texas. Lot of good people there. You're not one of them.

furious_a said...

mcullough-isms:

Some of the best trauma surgeons I the world in those hospitals. No place you'd rather be shot than the South Side of Chicago.

...and...

Which police beat covers the park? Does the watch commander in the 5th send a couple of cars to the park during games?

...because nothing says CHICAGO PRIDE like signing up one's child for sports based on the proximity of police precincts and trauma centers.

mccullough said...

Furious,

Do you feel insecure because your from Texas? Do you think people look down on you and think you're a hick?

Texas gave us W and Chicago gave us Obama. I would think that would humble both groups of people.

El Pollo Real said...

The "City of Big Shoulders" takes on a whole new pansified meaning when pronounced should-ers.

Think about it.

BBL

Sorun said...

"...because nothing says CHICAGO PRIDE like signing up one's child for sports based on the proximity of police precincts and trauma centers."

C'mon, there's only a 10% chance the kids will be assaulted. Don't be such pussies.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
It was just that the Chicago ER I was talking about was in a private hospital


All hospitals are heavily subsidized by the government in a variety of different ways.

mccullough said...

Sorun,

There was almost no chance of any problem there. It's one of the few fields with lights in the city, which is cool for kids to play. The play a number of night games there each year because opposing teams like to play under the lights.

There's never been a problem there. Never.

But keep the ignorance coming. You're good at it.

mccullough said...

Chip,

It turns out the game was scheduled about a month ago for a night game for whatever its worth. Maybe the parents should have canceled earlier out of some respect for the other team. If nothing else, they are rude to pull this at the last minute.

edutcher said...

somefeller said...

This is why his life is lurking in Mom's basement.

And tragicomedy is joined by cliche. Most amusing. Keep up the good work!


Cliche is what it is because it is so often true.

Sad you can only brag about your lurking skills.

GrandpaMark said...

There was a shooting at a T-Ball game last week in the San Francisco Bay Area. It never happened before.


mccullough said...

Michael

There's a difference between a high school baseball game and hanging out in a neighborhood. There has never been a shooting at a high school baseball game in Chicago. It's not Atlanta.

Alex said...

The French system, which would have been a great model for our reform in a rational world, has a fixed fee schedule but the patient and doctor have the right to pay and charge more.

That doesn't sound like the kind of socialized medicine Ritmo would approve of.

mccullough said...

GrandpaMark,

We need to banish T-Ball in San Francisco. It's for the children.

David said...

And why did they not play without these kids?

I suppose these parents would refuse to have their kids treated at University of Chicago hospital if the child had (say) cancer? No White Sox games either.

Play the game without the objecting families. Play it even if you have only seven players.

My objection is that the school did not play no matter what. The parents are free to make their own choices, even irrational ones.

Rusty said...

Chip S. said...
Wait a minute. Now that I know these parents were a bunch of fuckin' libs, I can see what the real problem was: A Sat. night game conflicted w/their white-wine-and-brie parties.

7:30 PM is when the drug dealer are getting up to do business.
Now if they want to schedule the game for 7:30 AM the kids are safe.

Paul said...

Impossible!!! Chicago has GUN CONTROL and the steady hand of Rahm to guide it.

There can be NO VIOLENCE, especially GUN VIOLENCE it that wonder full city.

These parents are overreacting. Shame on them. Their kids are just as safe as Rahm's are in their private schools (with bodyguards of course.)

ampersand said...

I grew up in Chicago and live in the suburbs.
I went to only one high school football game in the late sixties. My majority minority school played a total minority school
When we assembled for the busses,I only noticed only about 5 white kids going to the game.
The game was played in a solidly white area on the far north side of the city. The game was homecoming for our school.

During half time I was invited by a classmate,who had worked on the float,to ride in the teacher's car that was pulling the float
As we drove past the stands of the other school we were showered with a rain of bricks,garbage,buckets,I even saw a mop coming down.
The car had both the windshield and the back window cracked,and bodywork dents all over. The woman teacher was near hysterics.
I remember the faces up in the stands with the widest grins.
We later found out that someone from our school had beaned a cheerleader from the other school with a glass bottle.

I left and took myself home on the L as I didn't want to subject myself to any school spirit on the busses.

A day or two later it was announced that all future games at both schools would be played without any fans in attendence.

AReasonableMan said...

ampersand said...
The woman teacher was near hysterics.


Of all the thankless jobs in the world high school teacher must rank very close to the top. I would rather collect garbage than teach high school students.

David R. Graham said...

Americans are fed up with niggers. Soon enough budgets will reflect that fact. Then niggers will scream piteously and violently at once. And Americans, this time, will tell then to piss up a rope or go fuck themselves, their call. They had their chance and blew it, literally. There's more agreement among Americans than meets the eye and ear. And, reader, don't assume you know whom I mean by "niggers."

phx said...

Lessons in cowardice for the children.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

That doesn't sound like the kind of socialized medicine Ritmo would approve of.

Why not ask me directly? (Oh, that's right. Getting the facts on what I believe interferes with your caricature of them). I'm fine with that. Medical boutique practices I think are generally a positive development. Not that they seem to be going very far. But the problem with the French system - other than the fact that it outperforms any other nation's system - is that it requires layers of micromanagement that most countries, esp. the U.S. would utterly fail at maintaining.

The upshot? The development of EBM guidelines in the majority of specialties, that CMS is increasingly following as "core measures" for optimal reimbursement, assure the U.S. that this level of micromanaged practice might be an increasingly inevitable norm. Who knew that the decision by physicians to actually go off of EVIDENCE would not only happen (and be a damn good thing), but facilitate the promulgation of a health care system that looks increasingly "well regulated", both financially and clinically, from any informed observer's vantage point?

And with information technology, bucking that trend receives fewer and fewer legitimate excuses.

Oh, and Michael K.? The comment you replied to was not mine. Why do people keep seeming to do this so often nowadays?

Gene said...

McCoullough: If you sign up for the team then play. Take some responsibility. Don't whine."

No one has to surrender his ability to influence events just to play on a baseball team. If you sign up, work out and contribute to the team, you have a perfect right to demand changes you see as necessary. To me, that is the very definition of taking responsibility. Frankly, I think the coach should take a little responsibility for player safely himself, instead of making it necessary for the parents to step in. What's the coach afraid of? Getting a poor evaluation from the school district diversity compliance officer?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

I'm sure that David Graham's abominable comments will go woefully unnoticed by the majority of this blog's following.

living1nbf3 said...

Can anyone of the family carry a firearm to protect the rest of the family on the way in and on the way out?

Nope, only if Ballet Tutu Boy says you can.

I don't blame the parents at all.

Please, somebody in Chicago, buy a lantern, and a cow.

Baron Zemo said...

Jeez.

I thought the "Pit of Despair" was in the next thread down.

Youse guys need to rethink stuff a little. Just sayn'

mccullough said...

Gene,

The parents wimped out at the last minute. Why didn't they pipe up until then? They should have said something earlier.

How is this taking responsibility? Please explain.

mccullough said...

Gene,

Why do you keep bringing up diversity? What does that have to do with playing a scheduled game? It's baseball.

Titus said...

And let it be known that chick wimp completely hates loft owning city dwellers and if they are gay chick wimp really hates them. Gay urban loft owners everywhere are trempling in fear of chick wimp....

Baron Zemo said...

Wait a minute.

I don't have time to read all of these comments.

Was this game called because of "darkness?"

Inga said...

Oh it's just Whoresoftheinternet again.

harrogate said...

"There's a difference between a high school baseball game and hanging out in a neighborhood. There has never been a shooting at a high school baseball game in Chicago. It's not Atlanta."

Score!

Æthelflæd said...

You know what really makes kids tough - prison!
Skip all that rough high school stuff, mccullough. Why play around? Prison is where it's at. Do it for the children.

Besides if they were really tough they would play football.

Michael said...

506 murders in Chicago in 2012.
85 murders in Atlanta in 2012.

And thanks for playing.

El Pollo Real said...

Score!!

phx said...

506 murders in Chicago in 2012.
85 murders in Atlanta in 2012.


By what percentage does that increase the risk for any particular child being murdered while playing in a baseball game in the scary part of town?

Michael said...

Phx. More than zero.

furious_a said...

mccullough: Do you think people look down on you and think you're a hick?

Tough to look down on someone when your state government is swirling around the bowl.

A U.S. soldier is safer in Afghanistan than a black teenager is in Chicago. One governor after another frog-marched to prison. If you had any sense you'd shaddup and be ashamed.

Michael said...

Phx. Also, if you read the article and the thread no one claimed the kids would be harmed "while playing the game". The concern appears to center on the before and after and on the coming and going.

mccullough said...

Furious,

I'm not defending Illinois politicians. Are you defending Rick Perry? He's a fucking moron. I'm not defending Obama are you going to defend W?

LBJ and W are no one to be proud of. They've done immeasurable damage to the country. And of course the Rangers and Astros suck.


mccullough said...

Michael,

Chicago has a lower homicide rate than Atlanta. Atlanta has a small population: about 425,000

phx said...

The concern appears to center on the before and after and on the coming and going.

Michael: I don't believe that would change the probabilities of players being more likely to be harmed in Chicago than Atlanta, just b/c there were 4 or 5 hundred more murders in Chicago. I'm not a statistician but my common sense tells me that the odds are statistically negligible in either case and probably near 0 percent in either case, regardless of your fearmongering.

Michael said...

Phx. I am not fear mongering. I could give less of a shit about this silly Chicago flap. Statistically you are probably right. But I am sure the sanctimonious steer very fucking clear of what you call the "scary " parts of either town. As do the meanies.

mccullough said...

Michael,

Do you include yourself among the sanctimonious? Doesn't everyone who comments here fall into that category?

mccullough said...

Aethelflaed,

How can you send your son to Walter Payton High School and not let them play football?

El Pollo Real said...

@phx: It's a pretty easy Google to show that Chicago has a higher per capita murder rate than Atlanta.

Why are arguing this? I suspect a partisan reflex to cover for Obama's home town.

mccullough said...

El Pollo,

Link the stats from the FBI. Also, 86 murders in a population of 425,000 is more than 506 murders in a population of 2.6 million.

In 2011, Atlanta's murder rate was in the top ten, where its been for years. It lowered in 2012. Hopefully that's the start of a trend.

mccullough said...

El Pollo,

Also Chicago isn't Obama's hometown. He moved there in 1985 at the age of 24. You can google it.

Michael said...

Mccollough. I try not to ride a high horse. I mean by sanctimonious those who live on the north side who call those who will not go to the south side cowards when they themselves do not do so. I mean by sanctimonious those who believe their standards are so much more pure than others and make it a point to let others know.

mccullough said...

Michael,

I grew up and live on the South Side. The chances of any kid getting hurt going to that game, during the game, or coming home from the game are exceedingly small. If people live by irrational fear, then they are cowards.

phx said...

phx: It's a pretty easy Google to show that Chicago has a higher per capita murder rate than Atlanta.

Why are arguing this? I suspect a partisan reflex to cover for Obama's home town.


I'm not arguing the per capita rate - I suspect you're just skimming through the comments or you have a terribly inadequate understanding of statistics and probability (no shame that, I'm no math whiz myself).

I'm arguing that a higher per capita murder rate doesn't necessarily translate into a significantly greater risk factor for children going to play jv baseball in a bad part of town.

Michael said...

Mccullough. Ok, pal, take the entire metro areas of the two cities. I live in the heart of Atlanta. Metro is 5.5 million.

But if you like this game draw a circle around the area where the 500 in Chicago were murdered and count the population in that area.

mccullough said...

Michael,

Don't pretend to be non-judgmental. We just have different judgments. The high horse is pretending to be non-judgmental.

El Pollo Real said...

Also Chicago isn't Obama's hometown. He moved there in 1985 at the age of 24. You can google it.

Oh, I get your point. He's not from there. In any sense. The public is wrong to perceive that. At all. And Lincoln wasn't from Illinois either. Better take that lie off your license plates.

mccullough said...

Michael,

Is it the Metro Area now? What's the radius you would like me to use to make you feel better about where you live?

Michael said...

Mccollough. Notwithstanding your views I do not think it is irrational to avoid bad areas and it is not accurate to describe those who do as cowards. Forget the baseball game. I would have wanted my son to go to that particular game because i agree it would be safe. But i would not call a parent a coward who took a different view.

Michael said...

Mccollough. I live in the very middle of Atlanta. I am a minority in my town. I didnt run to the burbs like you.

furious_a said...

I'm not defending Illinois politicians. Are you defending Rick Perry?

I'm just -- Praise JAY-zus! -- grateful that I don't live in a dysfunctional, bankrupt and corrupt political sewer like Illinois.

Anyone with a "Madigan" as their AG or House Speaker has nothing to say about Rick Perry. Seriously You Guys.

harrogate said...

The reason Mcculough is fucking everyone up in this thread is because while they have Talking Points, he has a Point.

In case anyone is interested.

mccullough said...

El Pollo Real,

By that logic Michael Jordan is from Chicago. He moved here when he was 21. What the public perceives is often wrong. Referring to a place someone moved to as an adult as their hometown is silly.

mccullough said...

Furious,

LBJ and W were Texas gift to the country. And why would you defend Rick Perry? Couldn't you get into University of Texas either?

ndspinelli said...

I NEVER would have guessed this many comments on this post. That's interesting to me.

phx said...

But i would not call a parent a coward who took a different view.

I understand that but it's hard to overlook the lesson in cowardice that they are passing on to their children - regardless of whether we call them coward to their face or not. I would hope they could be persuaded by reason rather than fear. But people are what they are, in Chicago, Atlanta or points in between.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

I understand that but it's hard to overlook the lesson in cowardice that they are passing on to their children - regardless of whether we call them coward to their face or not.

One man's cowardice is another man's prudence. Who are you or mccullough to judge? What's it to you?

Palladian said...

My advice is to avoid playing team sports at all, so you don't end up becoming an asshole like mccullough here.

It also seems that spending a lot of time in Chicago sometimes turns people into raving assholes, so I'd avoid that, too.

Palladian said...

I'm sure that David Graham's abominable comments will go woefully unnoticed by the majority of this blog's following.

His comments usually do. You see, he hasn't learned to be a "subtle" troll. Perhaps you could give him some lessons.

phx said...

One man's cowardice is another man's prudence. Who are you or mccullough to judge? What's it to you?

More moral relativity theory from the conservatives.

phx said...

It truly isn't anything to me. I would never say anything to those parents about their decision.

But arguing the merits here - well that's the point of Althouse.

Michael said...

Phx. More moral relativity theory from the conservatives

What he described is not moral relativity, a concept perfected by liberals who have forgotten its meaning.

rcocean said...

I for one would gladly give my child's life for anti-racism.

After all, is there anything more important than standing up against racial bigotry?

phx said...

Who's to say genital mutilation or shariah law is any worse than what we have in the west? Who are we to judge?

Michael said...

Phx. Because genital mutilation is the same as avoiding bad areas. Invest in a book on the topic of Logic.

phx said...

Because genital mutilation is the same as avoiding bad areas. Invest in a book on the topic of Logic.

Michael no my argument was:

"Who's to say genital mutilation or shariah law is any worse than what we have in the west? Who are we to judge?"

is the same as (=)

"One man's cowardice is another man's prudence. Who are you or mccullough to judge? What's it to you?"

Now someone could probably argue the snot out of that argument but I don't think it would be you.

Michael said...

Phx: I understood your point initially and that is why I suggested you bone up on logic.

phx said...

Michael let's concede you that one point. It's a diversion from the argument but nevertheless you win the point. Plus we both agree that neither of us would be afraid to take our children to the game. I also agree that I would keep my mouth shut in the vicinity of the parties we're talking about.

mccullough said...

Michael

You're conservative? That's surprising to hear. Backing out of a commitment at the last minute isn't conservative. Basing your conduct on irrational fears is t conservative.

Palladian, sorry to offend you. Please stay indoors where life is safe. There are a lot of assholes out there as well. You are one of the assholes here as well. You whine as much as anyone.



As for who am I to judge? We're commenting on a blog post. And all of us judge all the time.

There are a lot of whiny conservatives here. Fearful ones too. And ignorant. Sleep well.

mccullough said...

Everyone,

Stay inside. Jihadists could blow you up at anytime. Order your supplies through the Althouse portal.

El Pollo Real said...

@Paco Wové: Have you got an algorithm for commenter counting/sorting?

I'm thinking mccullough set some sort of per capita record in this one.

mccullough said...

El Pollo,

Quit making inaccurate statements and ill quit commenting. Please repeat after me: Atlanta has a higher homicide rate than Chicago.

A lot of people comment here frequently but can't stand when people challenge their beliefs and point out their inaccurate statements.

Instead of seeking help from another commenter why don't you stand on your own and admit your mistakes? Does Paco have an algorithm for that?

Harold said...

Irrational fear.

Interesting concept.

If you has avoided the crowd at the Boston Marathon, becasue of the possibility of a terrorist bombing in a public venue, and announced it ahead of time, you would have been lambasted for being irrational. Adn after the fact, you'd have been at home alive and unhurt.

There are some people who avoid any kind of crowds, being fearful of crowds themselves. I'm sure there's an official phobia name for it. But-- crowds generally are more dangerous. Pickpockets, con artists, etc, hang out in crowds. And a terrorist act is far more likely to take place in one. Can it be seen any more as an irrational fear? Or a sensible one?

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...


mccullough, I sincerely do not understand why in the actual fuck you care what those parents do or do not do with their sons to the point of arguing about it for hours with strangers on the internet.

Palladian said...

Please stay indoors where life is safe. There are a lot of assholes out there as well. You are one of the assholes here as well. You whine as much as anyone.

I freely admit to being an asshole towards assholes. The difference between us is that I'm not tedious and you, well... You may have broken the record for epic tediousness with your comments here. Well done!

I'm glad you had all day to sit inside and argue with people, rather than doing something worthless, like playing stickball in the streets with your kids.

It's safer in front of a computer, anyway.

Palladian said...

mccullough, I sincerely do not understand why in the actual fuck you care what those parents do or do not do with their sons to the point of arguing about it for hours with strangers on the internet.

Shh! Let's see how long we can keep this hilarious meltdown going!

mccullough said...

IHMMP,

For the same reason you keep piping in. It's a slow Sunday, I'm bored, and I think this is bullshit.

You should ask yourself why the fuck you care what I say?

mccullough said...

Palladian

Quit your whining. You comment here all the time. Mostly you whine and bit h and moan. You can't handle when people disagree with you. I'm just tired of the same whining from some of the "conservatives" here. You included.

mccullough said...

Palladian

The point of my tedious whining is to subject you to the same shit you put others through.

I'll return to my usual infrequent commenting tomorrow. I expect you will still continue with your whining.

Palladian said...

Tell more, mccullough! Tell me about my whining! Tell me about my conservatism! Chicago's a shitty 2nd rate town, you know! Tell me about it!

mccullough said...

Palladian

Don't live in Chicago or visit if you don't like it. But quit acting like you are anything but an ignorant whiner.

Palladian said...

"Hey Dad, let's play ball!"

"Not now, son, I'm arguing with people on the Internet about crime statistics in Atlanta! Go over to Pullman and find some of the local kids to play with, you fucking little pussies!"

mccullough said...

Palladian

The only pussy here is you. Keep peddling your second rate "art" you miserable shut in.

The reason you are alone is because your an asshole.

Palladian said...

It's you're.

Perhaps you should have studied a bit more instead of dodging bullets while playing kiddie baseball.

William said...

I have nothing against tolerance and diversity. They're fine, socially useful virtues. But such virtues do not trump prudence and concern for one's children......I don't know the merits of either side of the argument, but if you are arguing that social virtues trump due concern for one's children, you don't understand the 20th century.

Paco Wové said...

"algorithm for commenter counting/sorting?"

Just my mad Perl/UNIX shell skillz.

While mccullough put in a valiant effort here, with 82 out of 345 comments (a .238 commenting average), he still can't hold a candle to Ritmo's runaway logorrhea (most recently measured at a stunning 115 of 301 comments, a .382 average).

Shanna said...

I was busy yesterday and missed this thread...looks like it was fun.

When I was in high school we went to a football game at central and the band buses got rocks thrown at them. One of my friends got hit in the head.

That was the last time the band went to those games.

William said...

I'm determined to get the last word on this long thread. I repeat my earlier statement: a good parent cares more for the safety of his children than for the welfare of society. Those who not appreciate that fact do not understand how the horrors of the 20th century came to be.

Ipso Fatso said...

Last!!!!

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