January 1, 2013

The Clinton clot plot thickens... or thins... with anti-coagulants.

So we were just talking about the oddities of the Clinton clot story. We noted that no sooner was it said that Hillary Clinton would testify, as Secretary of State, on the Benghazi attack, than there came an announcement that Hillary Clinton had entered the hospital with a blood clot. The coincidence raised suspicions of an effort to engineer an evasion of this testimony.

And we weren't told where the clot was, which is a crucial bit of information when assessing how serious this health scare is. Clinton had recently suffered a head injury, which makes one think the new problem would also be located in the head, but she'd also had a blood clot in her leg years ago, which makes that alternative seem plausible. If the clot were in the leg, withholding that information suggests a strategic choice to incline the public to view the problem as  more serious than it really was.

Later, Clinton's doctors released a statement saying that the clot was in a vein inside her skull, and that she's "making excellent progress" and likely to "make a full recovery." The Washington Post repeats the information that she's being treated with anticoagulants. You may remember that the analysis I discussed at that first link contained the assertion that "anticoagulation is never given to persons with clots around the brain." But that WaPo story says: "The conventional treatment is an anticoagulant drug for at least six months."

I know some of my readers are doctors. Can you help us out with that inconsistency about the anticoagulants? [ADDED: Here's what Dr. Pogo says. And here's some useful detail. I think the crucial distinction is whether the clot is in the brain or in the space between the brain and the skull.]

And, by the way, I've gotten some pushback in email and on the web, saying that it was "shameful" and "appalling" for me to tie Clinton's health problems to a possible intent to avoid testifying about Benghazi. Let me tell you that a core motivation to my blogging — and I've been going at this for 9 years now — is to stand tough against people who try to cut off debate with this kind of shaming. So I'm glad that this performance of outrage was directed at me. I know it when I see it, and it fires me up. You want silence? You want backing down? You want me not to dare say a thing like that? That's how you want to control political debate in the United States? Thanks for reminding me once again how deeply I hate that and for giving me an (easy) opportunity to model courage for the more timid people out there who are cowed by the fear of shaming.

ADDED: Here's something I would dearly love to do with this blog: I want to make it so that emotive, intimidating outrage like that backfires. I want people to learn that they can't get away with empty assertions like "I am aghast" or "You are despicable." You have to give reasons for what you think. Even if you really feel those feelings. And, of course, many of these hack writers don't actually feel the feelings they scribble about. They just don't want to have to talk about the actual issue. They want to make it something that everyone feels they'd better not talk about. But that should be a loud signal: We need to talk about it!

And let's get back to basics: What we need to talk about is Benghazi.

431 comments:

1 – 200 of 431   Newer›   Newest»
President-Mom-Jeans said...

But Althouse, to asks these kind of questions is "ugly."

You don't want to be seen as being "ugly", do you?

creeley23 said...

Let me tell you that a core motivation to my blogging — and I've been going at this for 9 years now — is to stand tough against people who try to cut off debate with this kind of shaming.

Amen to that! Fires me up too.

David said...

Ok doctors, let it fly.

When I had a stroke several years ago, before they gave me anti-coagulants, they tested to see if I had narrowing in the artery or a clot. Had there been a clot (and not just in my brain) there would have been no blood thinners.

cubanbob said...

If she is fit enough for vacations she is fit enough to testify.

Strelnikov said...

Headline: "Clinton's Brain Blood Clot Dies of Loneliness".

David said...

"to stand tough against people who try to cut off debate with this kind of shaming."

That's cool, but where else would we have found Stain's bathroom?

Lem said...

This clot gluts a web cob of clutz and putz.

Moose said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Strelnikov said...

On the other hand, I was given two types of blood thinners (injections and oral) for clots in my leg following an injury.

Not that I think this is legit even for a moment.

agray said...

Dear Professor,
"Longtime reader, first-time commenter." Thank you for the powerful statement at the end of your post. The vocabulary of Orwell's Newspeak was cut down every year to diminish the possibility of thought. The range of topics we're "allowed" to discuss is being cut down for the same reason.

Panachronic said...

And if she's not fit enough to testify, then she's not fit to be SecState. Time to step down, Hil.

Baron Zemo said...

They need to subpoena her so she is forced to produce proof that this is not more bullshit.

The time for waiting and excuse is over. The election is over. The holidays are over. It is time to pay the piper.

A special prosecutor is indicated. I propose Rudi Giuliani.

schmidt said...

It takes one to know one, I suppose.

John said...

Hillary is on the roof and they are having trouble getting her down.

She has a concussion but there is no harm (2-3 weeks ago)

She is in the hospital for an unspecified clot but will be out in time to go to work Monday 12/31 (Sunday)

She has an unspecified clot that will require her to stay in for a few days (Monday AM)

She has a subdural hematoma (not a clot in the brain which would be an ischemic stroke) Monday night.

What is next?

National Enquirer said a few weeks ago that she has a brain tumor. Yes, it is the NE. But it was also the NE who was willing to report on the Edwards/Hunter baby affair that none of the "responsible" press would report on.

Let's see who eventually turns out to be right.

John Henry

Maguro said...

So she fainted, had a concussion and now she's got a blood clot in her brain. Sounds like she had a stroke.

At least her female problems got better, I guess.

Coketown said...

This administration should win a daytime Emmy®. Between Petraeus's salacious affair and Clinton's impromptu trips to the emergency room, all to avoid testifying, they're giving Days of Our Lives some fierce competition. Can't wait for Hillary's twin Millary to make an appearance, Hillary to suffer amnesia, and Ambassador Stevens to return from the dead to reveal Benghazi was just a cover up--for something FAR MORE SINISTER!

PeterK said...

several years ago my mother fell and hit her head. she was fine until a couple months later when it seemed like she was having a stroke. Instead she had suffered a very slow growing subdural hematoma. what was thought to be a stroke was rather the blood compressing the brain. treatment was to drill a couple of holes in her head to relieve the pressure. not sure if anticoagulants were used. Now jump forward several years and we thought my father had suffered a stroke. nope turned out that the anticoagulants he had been taking had caused bleeding in his skull causing the same problem that mother had. treatment? drill holes in head to relieve pressure and take him off anticoagulants.
Hilary's story sounds plausible, but I don't we're getting all the information. If she does have a blood clot then anticoagulants would be called for, but if she is suffering from a subdural hematoma then the anticoagulants may exasperate the problem.

Dante said...

The original report I read on Drudge seemed to indicate a deep vein thrombosis was not in the picture, since it could require significant time in the hospital.

Meanwhile, I'm with you on getting to the bottom of the Benghazi mess.

From my perspective, the big issue is that we can't trust the press to tell the truth. If we had a Nixon era press demanding to get to the bottom of it, one could imagine eventually we would. But we saw how the press did everything they could to protect alleged rapist Bill Clinton.

The Drill SGT said...

I'm not a DR, and don't even play one on TV, but I have had a heart attack and have a layman's understanding of the three general blood flow impactors:

1. Blood thinners. Work to reduce the viscosity of blood and ease transport friction. Asparin is an example.

2. blood anti-coagulants. e.g. Heparin, work to decrease the formation of clots and break down ones that exist.

3. Artery teflon (e.g. Clopidogrel or Plavix). reduce clots by making the artery walls, slicker, and harder for clots to build-up.

PS: If you ever think that anybody may be having a heart attack, call 911 and chew (not swallow) several asparin. Absent a serious bleeding ulcer, it won't hurt regardless and may provide the thinning needed to keep you alive till you get to the ER.

EDH said...

..."shameful" and "appalling" for me to tie Clinton's health problems to a possible intent to avoid testifying about Benghazi

Indeed, that kind "you'll be sorry" shaming and guilt tripping is a very childish impulse, wonderfully recalled by Jean Shepherd.

Mother: Is it something we did?

Ralphie: It was... soap poisoning.

Father: I told you not to use Lifeboy.

[Ralphie smiles broadly, raises eyebrows.]

-- Bumped from previous thread.

Bob said...

And it should be pointed out that Christopher Hitchens once wrote a book on the Clintons called No One Left To Lie To. It's the old fairy tale of the Boy Who Cried Wolf, modernised and wearing a pants suit.

The Drill SGT said...

On the main topic, I think the issue is the type of brain artery problem. If it is a clot that moved there from somewhere else, thinners may be indicated.

However, if the head blow caused a rupture of a vessel, then the clot may be what is preventing massive brain bleeding and death. In that case, the clot is the solution, not the problem.

Pogo said...

"Can you help us out with that inconsistency about the anticoagulants?"

The issue of treating a clot demands knowledge of where the clot is: artery or vein?

Arterial clots are not usually called clots in the press. Heart attacks are small arterial clots. Some strokes are small clots. Certain anticoagulants and clot-dissolving drugs are used here (e.g., tPA). These would be contraindicated in people with a recent head injury.

A concussion is far more likely to result in a subdural hematoma, which anticoagulation would worsen.

Vein clots, such as in the leg, are treated with a standard regimen of anticoagulants, like heparin and warfarin.

The venous sinus thrombosis is quite rare, but needs anticoagulation in the same way as a leg vein clot.

The issue in my view was the unnecessary and dishonest secrecy of Clinton and her doctors. Very Soviet; Stalins MDs routinely lied for him. Now she is viewed with similar suspicion.


gerry said...

Ann, I posted a link to Mayo Clinic about anticoagulant therapy for ischemic strokes in the original thread.

I'm not a doctor, but have some respiratory therapy experience and thought it absurd that an "expert" would assert anticoagulants would not used for clots "near" the brain.

@Michael K also commented in the original thread: The treatment of acute stroke is another matter. The thrombolysin has to be given in the first hour and it has to be determined that the problem is a thrombosis in the artery.

A thrombolytic is a "clot buster" while an anticoagulant delays clot formation. Both would be avoided if the malady was a hemhorrhage (burst vessel), and both might be used if the injury were a clot or caused by restricted blood flow.

n.n said...

Exactly. It is not about Clinton. It is not even about Obama, not really. It is about how Benghazi could and did happen, and mitigating dissociation of risk to control progressive corruption. Nothing less than human lives are at stake.

Dr Weevil said...

Bob:
I thought Bill's personal fairy tale was The Emperor's New Pants. You know, where the little boy in the crowd shouts "Mommy, mommy, the Emperor's not wearing any pants!"

marvel said...

If there is head trauma that results in the breaking of an anatomic barrier, and a subdural, epidural, or other bleed occurs and then clots (thus preventing further bleeding into the brain), anti-coagulants are generally NOT given, because you don't want the clot to break down and for bleeding to reoccur, which would compress the brain. I think this is the situation to which the original statement about anti-coagulants "never being given" to patients with head clots referred.

If a clot occurs in an artery or a vein in the head and no breakage of an anatomic barrier occurs, then anti-coagulants may be given so that the clot won't propagate. When the clot breaks down, normal flow through the artery or vein will return. If an artery is clotted, that's a stroke and obviously you want to return normal blood flow ASAP. If a vein is clotted off, fluid flow is disrupted and there can be increased intracranial pressure from poor drainage, which can result in headaches, blurred vision, coma, death, etc. There is little risk in this case that an anti-coagulant will cause bleeding into the brain itself, since all anatomic barriers are intact.

If you have an arteriovenous malformation (AVM) or aneurysm that bursts open, bleeds, and then clots itself off, you absolutely do NOT want to give anti-coagulants, since a recurrence of bleeding from an AVM can cause sudden death.

Tricky situation: head trauma results in damage to a vein, which then triggers a clot. So you find yourself in situation 2 as a result of situation 1. Whether or not to anti-coagulate may depend on whether the patient has an underlying disorder and may clot more readily (someone with Factor V Leiden may be anti-coagulated while someone without might not).

I honestly don't think enough information has been released re Clinton's current condition to define which situation she is in.

Phil 3:14 said...

As Pogo said, not a stroke but an odd, rare clot of the transverse sinus.

garage mahal said...

. Let me tell you that a core motivation to my blogging — and I've been going at this for 9 years now — is to stand tough against people who try to cut off debate with this kind of shaming.

I don't think Wonkette wants you to stop. I think they want you to continue with this asinine Clot Truther speculation so they can continue mocking you.

Michael K said...

" Instead she had suffered a very slow growing subdural hematoma. what was thought to be a stroke was rather the blood compressing the brain."

On the other thread, I posted a comment that this sounds like a cavernous sinus thrombosis which is usually not trauma related. The Cavernous sinus collects the venous blood from the other veins of the brain and heads for the jugular veins.

The thrombosis is usually not trauma related. "The cause is usually from a spreading infection in the nose, sinuses, ears, or teeth. Staphylococcus aureus and Streptococcus are often the associated bacteria. Cavernous sinus thrombosis symptoms include: decrease or loss of vision, chemosis, exophthalmos (bulging eyes), headaches, and paralysis of the cranial nerves which course through the cavernous sinus and causes. It causes some very characteristic signs, like double vision from paralysis of the 6th cranial nerve which turns the eyeball outwards.

Subdurals are slow in developing because, as the clot dissolves, it absorbs water and swells. I've had one appear a month after an auto accident. Epidurals are quickly fatal as Natasha Richardson's was and probably Princess Grace.

Petunia said...

Aspirin reduces the tendency of platelets to stick together and therefore reduces the likelihood of clotting.

Heparin does not break down already-formed clots.

Thrombolytics like tPA DO help to break down clots.

Thrombophlebitis is NOT the blood clot itself, as Dr. Sepkowitz asserts in the first article. It is inflammation of a vein as result of a clot.

We don't know yet what exact treatment Mrs. Clinton is receiving, and I certainly wouldn't rely on the WaPo's interpretation for information.

As a doctor myself (animal doctor, but doctor nonetheless, and also about 70% of the way to my RN), I would question the assertion that anti-coagulants are NEVER used in clots in or around the brain. "Always" and "never" seldom apply to medical issues.

But whatever health problem(s) Mrs. Clinton has, as soon as she is well enough she needs to testify about Benghazi, and those responsible need to be held accountable.

Mousebert said...

Instead of being a subdural hematoma or embolic clot, it could be a sagittal sinus thrombosis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_venous_sinus_thrombosis

Michael K said...

" I think they want you to continue with this asinine Clot Truther speculation so they can continue mocking you. "

Do you realize what a fool you are making of yourself ?

SgtPete said...

Hang tough, it's the only way. Love ya, SgtPete

betamax3000 said...

Benghazi: the plural of Ben Gazzara.

Ben Gazzara played Vice President Saxon in the film "Shadow Conspiracy".

From imdb:

Bobby Bishop is a special assistant to the President of the United States. Accidentally, he meets his friend professor Vince Foster on the street. Vince Foster has time to tell Bishop about some conspiracy in the White House but then immediately gets killed by an assassin. Now bad guys are after Bobby as the only man who knows about a plot. Bishop must now not only survive, but to stop the conspirators from achieving their goal. And he doesn't know whom to trust."

Actually the character's name is Pochenko, not Vince Foster, but I think my point is made...

Astro said...

All of this will be a non-story in 2016 when Hillary runs for president.
The Democrats will run someone in the primaries with worse health issues than Hillary, so Hillary will 'win' compared to this other candidate.
Then during the general election it will be said that these issues were 'dealth with during the primaries' so let's move on...

Doc Holliday's Hat said...

I'm aghast that four Americans, including a damn Ambassador, are dead and from a terrorist attack on 9/11 and that there is a distinct possibility they are dead because of either massive incompetence, a willful derogation of duty, or an outright coverup of a torture house. And I'm even more aghast that this has not been front page news for four months.

Bob Ellison said...

Well, sometimes there is a wolf. But she long ago surrendered the presumption of innocent complaint.

gerry said...

Michael K, marvel, Pogo, and Petunia have made this a very interesting thread!

Pogo said...

I stand by my earlier comment.

The Clintons lie even when the truth is favorable to them.

Here they obfuscated and told partial truths, withholding the rest.

And for what? No real gain, just more suspicion. And less compassion than she probably deserves here.

Now I understand what happened to cause Benghazi: sheer incompetence dressed in a kudzu of worthless statements.

Sam said...

The intimidating outrage is a fake, canned, pseudo intellectual response. I hear this all the time on the campus I work on. They are constantly saying in so many words - I am morally superior to you, so don't even bother to discuss this with me if you don't agree with me.

Right on Ann!

edutcher said...

Conceding that she has been looking just awful (no aspersions, just sayin') for some time now, I still have to say, once I found out she had the dreaded subdural hematoma, beloved of soap opera plotters everywhere, my willingness to believe she had something serious took a fast nosedive.

garage mahal said...

Here they obfuscated and told partial truths, withholding the rest.

Sort of hard to obfuscate and "tell" partial truths when you're in the hospital with a blood clot in your head, don't you think, Doc?

Bob Ellison said...

It might only be a subglottal tacetonia.

wyo sis said...

Either there is a mass conspiracy to keep us from ever knowing the truth about Benghazi or Obama is the luckiest man on earth. Hurricanes and blood clots can't be created by government can they?
In the absence of proof I'm going to assume the most logical thing. Obama let those people die to cover up something he doesn't want us to know. And any Democrats out there who wouldn't assume the same about a Republican president can try to pretend otherwise, but we all know they would.
In fact, I'd believe a Republican president had done the same thing if the same circumstances had happened in a Republican administration.

tiger said...

Wow, Professor!

An excellent post and you're spot-on about people trying to shut down the debate with personal attacks aimed at motive.

Quaestor said...

schmidt wrote:
It takes one to know one, I suppose

One what?

In that great and all too seldom consulted compendia, Fallacies and Harebrained Assertions, "
It takes one to know one" ranks up there with "If God intended man to fly He'd have given him wings" and "You are what you eat".

The subject is blood clots and the treatment thereof and the much more important ancillary subject of the attempt in certain quarters to put criticism of the current ruling class beyond the pale.

Lem said...

Let me try and put myself in Hillary's shoes, if you will...

If I say the clot is serious, how will potential donors take that?

If I say the clot is not serious, its only a matter of time before these republican bastards make me testify.

Just release sketchy partial information... move along nothing to see here.

tiger said...

schmidt said...
It takes one to know one, I suppose.

Ok, tell us EXACTLY what your snide, passive-aggressive comment is supposed to mean and who, EXACTLY, it's directed at.

Farking allah, you're a gutless jerk. Instead of insulting the professor directly you post some backhanded, wimpy comment like this?

I bet your balls are the size of raisins and you squat to pee.

betamax3000 said...

It is believed that the clot was caused by Ms. Clinton strenuously attempting a sperm donation for a couple on Craigslist.

I can't let go of that previous thread.

Deb said...

Dear Professor,
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Quaestor said...

garage mahal wrote:
Sort of hard to obfuscate and "tell" partial truths when you're in the hospital with a blood clot in your head, don't you think, Doc?

It was too much to hope that garage would resist the urge to descend to the lowest level of rhetoric.

Clinton and her myrmidons are busy building a diminished capacity dodge she hopes will outlast the collective attention span.

Baron Zemo said...

What are they waiting for?

Subpoena her lying ass and get the truth. Or start the process to have a Special Prosecutor. The Democrats have no problem for calling for special prosecutors for nonsense like the Valarie Palme crap so lets just go tit for tat.

Subpoena Hillary, Petraeus, Valarie Jarret, David Gregory and Honey Boo Boo.

WE WANT ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ivy said...

A song keeps running through my head.... There was an old lady who swallowed a fly

Lem said...

I want people to learn that they can't get away with empty assertions like "I am aghast" or "You are despicable."

How about "You're unbelievably stupid"?

Lem said...

I hope Inga reads this post.

She loves to play that game.

betamax3000 said...

"I am aghast" only works if you are from Aghastistan.

Chip S. said...

Hey, don't be so rough on schmidt.

That kind of stuff wows 'em at wonkette.

Pogo said...

"Sort of hard to obfuscate and "tell" partial truths when you're in the hospital with a blood clot in your head"

If the SOS was too ill to function, so ill she could not talk or even approve of news releases, the people should have been told immediately.

What bullshit. I get more up to date news about local strangers hospitalized after car accidents. Shit, our city council president had a stroke and it was immediately on the news.

Clintons cannot stop lying.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

How insufferable you are. DVTs are serious - they lead to pulmonary emboli and can be associated with high mortality. Just give it up. I suppose if she died you'd occupy yourself with conservative demands that her skeleton be brought forward to testify.

Lem said...

For people who claim to passionately hate guns... Liberals sure love their silencers.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Pogo thinks that the health records of the world's most powerful diplomat should be as transparent to him as the splash patterns of the same country's leader's semen.

Mick Havoc said...

I'm shocked, SHOCKED to find out ther's dissembling going on here!

Freeman Hunt said...

Let me tell you that a core motivation to my blogging — and I've been going at this for 9 years now — is to stand tough against people who try to cut off debate with this kind of shaming. So I'm glad that this performance of outrage was directed at me. I know it when I see it, and it fires me up. You want silence? You want backing down? You want me not to dare say a thing like that? That's how you want to control political debate in the United States? Thanks for reminding me once again how deeply I hate that and for giving me an (easy) opportunity to model courage for the more timid people out there who are cowed by the fear of shaming.

Here's something I would dearly love to do with this blog: I want to make it so that emotive, intimidating outrage like that backfires. I want people to learn that they can't get away with empty assertions like "I am aghast" or "You are despicable." You have to give reasons for what you think. Even if you really feel those feelings. And, of course, many of these hack writers don't actually feel the feelings they scribble about. They just don't want to have to talk about the actual issue. They want to make it something that everyone feels they'd better not talk about. But that should be a loud signal: We need to talk about it!


Love!

Yeah, I was emotive about that, and no, I don't have time to go into my reasons. Heh.

pm317 said...

But what about Obama? I have never seen you going after him about Benghazi like this. Going after Hillary like this is crazy.

john said...

Ann said: And let's get back to basics: What we need to talk about is Benghazi.

No, no, no. That's not even close to "basics".

A geography lesson: Benghazi is in Libya. The WH would love for the discussion to be about Benghazi rather than Obama's war, Hillary screw-up or not. What we need to talk about is Libya.

We get so distracted by shiny things.

Lem said...

Is Hillary hanging on as SOS so that the people have to cover her medical expenses?

What... help me out here garage.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

I guess if they had to amputate her leg then we could expect good ole Althouse, demanding that the procedure take place on the Senate floor, with C-SPAN recording a simultaneous question-answer format.

And on New Year's Day! Don't you people ever allow for actual life to happen? What dour fixations occupy you.

Michael K said...

"
The Clintons lie even when the truth is favorable to them."

There have been some recent comments elsewhere on the virtues of Allan Drury's novel "Advice and Consent" in trying to understand Washington. Even better is his nonfiction book, "A Senate Journal" which describes the Congress in 1944 when Drury began his career as a UPI correspondent.

Everyone who observes what goes on in Congress would benefit from reading that book which tells us that nothing new is going on.

pm317 said...

And what is she going to say -- this was a WH and CIA affair and the State was not part of it. Are you all goading her to say that? So like a back door access to catch Obama because you are feckless to confront him yourself?

Pogo said...

"How insufferable you are."

In which Ritmo proves Althouse's point.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

The Clintons lie even when the truth is favorable to them.

This self-fulfilling prophecy rather obviates whatever use you think you'd get out of the testimony.

What would be funny is if you got an outcome that was as useless and unrevealing as the Starr Report.

Whatever the Clintons' shortcomings, you can always rely on the Republikinder to find a way to make themselves look even shorter.

Chip Ahoy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
O Ritmo Segundo said...

In which Ritmo...

What? Oh, right. The "disclaimer" at the bottom of the post.

Sorry, I didn't realize how seriously the American public was taking Althouse's pleas for truth and justice and supposedly sound reasoning in this matter.

Pogo said...

"Pogo thinks that the health records of the world's most powerful diplomat should be as transparent..."

Bad faith, as usual, making strawmen no one posited.

bagoh20 said...

"I suppose if she died you'd occupy yourself with conservative demands that her skeleton be brought forward to testify."

At least we don't drag them out to vote.

Baron Zemo said...

"Advise and Consent" was a great book for it's time.

The main character of Seeb Cooley was a southern racist Senator who everyone was scared of was based on Sam Ervin who was hated by the libs until Watergate when they used him to get Nixon.

Allen Drury was a political reporter and he used very recognizable figures as the stand ins for his characters. It was a game to match up the characters with the real life equivalents.

Chip Ahoy said...

When Hillary returned home from hospital she and Bill were together alone, at last. So much time had passed. There was still quite a lot to catch up with each other. They were just glad to be together.

"So what's the dern deal-io?"

"I have acute angina."

"Aaah, so that's where you went."

Bill winked.

"So when are you doing your tits?"

Pogo said...

"What? Oh, right. The "disclaimer" at the bottom of the post."

What? Oh, right, Ritmo finally read the actual post.

O Ritmo Segundo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

Bad faith ritmo.

Same old same old.

Hagar said...

Besides all of the above:

I cannot remember seeing any current video of Ms. Clinton since this started. Has anyone?

I have now seen video of a hospital entrance with Gov't type blacked out SUVs coming and going, but no actual doctors making statements.

And yesterday I read somewhere (though I did not check to see if it was from The Onion) speculation that she was in that US plane that crashed in Iran, and that is where she got the "concussion."
This article stopped there, but if I believed this, I certainly could spin it up quite a bit higher!

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Yours is the faith that is bad, dude. Always leaping to the most paranoid, unsupported and irrational conclusions and lines of reasoning first.

The Clintons (or anyone else) would be right to fear what Nixonians like yourself would do to any rational inquiry over anything.

Pogo said...

And going after me personally?

Exactly as I expect, but despicable to the core.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Yours is the faith that is bad, dude. Always leaping to the most paranoid, unsupported and irrational conclusions and lines of reasoning first.

The Clintons (or anyone else) would be right to fear what Nixonians like yourself would do to any rational inquiry into anything.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

And going after me personally?

Exactly as I expect, but despicable to the core.


You can't question others' "faith" without having your own questioned. How do you personalize without expecting the same, hypocrite?

Fair-minded people get this.

Lem said...

"Thanks for reminding me once again how deeply I hate that".

Ok, I'm going to emote like Freeman... I love that Althouse appropriately used the word hate on this post.

There is a particular commenter here (you all know who I'm talking about) that loves to use the word hate as a weapon to silence people.

Dont be cowed.

Freeman Hunt said...

The disclaimer? The bottom is the meat of the thing, this Clinton business only being a specific example. There will be no end to the genesis of such examples, so the Clinton bit isn't special. At least that's how I see it.

MadisonMan said...

You, a Law Professor!

(Someone had to say it)

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Sort of hard to obfuscate and "tell" partial truths when you're in the hospital with a blood clot in your head, don't you think, Doc?


Ok stupid shit, who is the acting Secretary of State?

machine said...

You stay classy San Diego!

Lem said...

Ritmo talks to himself.

Hagar said...

Come to think of it, have not all the statements about Ms. Clinton's indisposition been "faceless" statements released by the State Department?
Does anyone remember seeing anyone of note going out on a limb associating him/herself with this?

pm317 said...

Maybe Obama does not want her to testify. You know what happened to Petraus.

Ivy said...

Injured in Crash

AllenS said...

Hard to say what's wrong with Hillary. I've only had the flu once in my life, and felt pretty shitty, but never was close to passing out because of it.

So, what caused the blood clot? Was it the fall? Is she having the blood thinned or not? Nobody seems to know anything. Which adds to the suspicion.

Shouting Thomas said...

garage, during the Wisconsin imbroglio, repeatedly suggested that he knew that Gov. Walker would soon be indicted. Over and over again, garage, made this claim... and that indictment has not transpired, has it?

The left has always encouraged and applauded the most bitter, vicious accusation and vitriol against Republicans.

Remember that "Question Authority?" chestnut.

Apparently, that doesn't count when Democrats are in office.

Paco Wové said...

"There is a particular commenter here (you all know who I'm talking about)"

Sorry, Lem, about half a dozen come to mind.

Shouting Thomas said...

I do have to add that Althouse has on one occasion in my memory resorted to the shaming tactic.

That's when she's been angry at opposition to gay marriage. She responded with a lengthy, wacky tirade to the effect that no morally decent person could oppose gay marriage.

The veneration of the gays is the one bit of political nonsense that even Althouse cannot resist.

AllenS said...

This flu thing started a long time ago, didn't it? Only recently did she have this fall. How long did she have the flu? Something else is wrong with her, would be my guess.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Ok, fine. I see what this is about. Let it become the medical teaching moment that I guess all the inevitable suspicion, intrigue and conspiratorializing will lead to. Have at it.

AllenS said...

I'm certainly no conspiracy theorist like a lot of you, but maybe she's in protective custody because Bill or Obama is trying to kill her.

gregwithtwogs said...

I said this the other day and will say it again:
"What do Wisconsin's no show teachers have in common with Hillary Clinton?

They use a doctor's excuse."

Stay fired up Ann. We are sick of their excuses.

Levi Starks said...

Ok,
There is a bigger point to make.
People died at Benghazi, the reason we are told is because of benign neglect on the part of the decision makers, who watched it happen,
Flash forward, and now the life of one of those supposed decision makers hangs in the balance. If one of the doctors caring for Hilary were to make a poor choice and she were to die, do you not think we would demand answers?
Is one humans life of more value than another's?

MayBee said...

Here's something I would dearly love to do with this blog: I want to make it so that emotive, intimidating outrage like that backfires. I want people to learn that they can't get away with empty assertions like "I am aghast" or "You are despicable."

Ann drew Breitbart.

Paco Wové said...

MadisonMan said...

  You, a Law Professor!


Seems acronym-worthy -- YALP. Using this technique = Yalping. One who uses this technique = a yalper. One can yalp in anger (e.g., Freder F.). One can yalp in passive-aggressive sorrow (e.g., that penguin dude).

Hagar said...

What if the Iranians have her?

Elle said...

Haven't even bothered with the comments yet, but wow, "shame" on you? Are you kidding me?

If you think pulling a stunt like this is out of relhm of possibility in today's DC atmosphere, you're not paying attention.

Keep on keeping on Ann.

Shouting Thomas said...

I live in Woodstock, so I see the vicious tactics of the left all the time. You should have been here for our official "Hate Bush" weekend, sponsored by the Woodstock Times and the Tinker Street Theater.

One shop even put up a full size Bush mannequin dressed in full Nazi regalia.

The centerpiece of the hate festival was a showing of "Loose Change," a goofy bit of childish propaganda that purported to prove that Bush was the author of the 9/11 attack.

This is SOP when the left attacks Republicans in office.

William said...

This is what is known as the Goldilocks clot. It's a polyscismic formation that involves short term memory loss This disqualifies the patient from testifying about recent events. Any such questioning is prohibitied by the Federal Disability Act. Happily, this condition is transient and does not involve any long term loss of cerebral function. To imply otherwise is also forbidden under the Federal Disabilities Act.... After a recovery process of a few years, Mrs. Clinton should be able to resume her duties as the leader of the free world. Woodrow Wilson has already shown how a massive stroke is no impediment to negotiating the borders of the world and being President of the United States. To imply that Mrs. Clinton cannot do likewise is sexist. Perhaps the Disability Act can be further tweaked to prohibit all criticism of Mrs. Clinton.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Remember that "Question Authority?" chestnut.

Apparently, that doesn't count when Democrats are in office.


That's not true. And I consider HRC more authoritarian in personality than most. It's one of the most important motivations I had for fearing her nomination (as POTUS) in 2008. I once read a Slate piece on how she turned her platform in whatever hearings were held on Watergate into her own little exercise in tyranny. It stuck with me but I always could pick up those sorts of things in her anyway, and I didn't like them.

But this is not a Democratic thing. Remember, HRC grew up a Republican. And Republicans aren't necessarily all authoritarians either.

But she has done a very good job as Secretary of State (whatever you think of this episodic non-issue) and deserves compassion when facing a life-threatening medical issue.

For crying out loud.

You keep telling us it's about timing. There will be all the time in the world. You told us it was about timing two months ago during the election.

Well, the election happened. It wouldn't have hinged on all the actual, real stuff that's already told us this is as much a non-issue legally as it always was politically.

In any event, not everyone facing a trial fakes a serious medical condition. I think you are just trying to use this to bolster your need to "trump up" the serious feeling you ascribe to the charge.

It cuts both ways. So be realistic.

When you go so far as to believe that the course of life-changing medical events are likely to just be an opportunity on the patient's part, it just makes the sincerity of your interest in the non-medical issues they face seem even that much less convicted.

MayBee said...

I think Hillary Clinton has a health problem.

And I think President Obama does not want her to cast the blame about Libya on him.

I think people should always be skeptical about politicians. They poll to find out whether you like to see them with their spouses, for heaven's sake. There is no perception issue they do not consider, but not because it is good for us.

And I think anyone pretending to be outraged on Hillary Clinton's behalf is a phony.

Although, yes, I believe she has some sort of health problem.

MayBee said...

I think Hillary Clinton has a health problem.

And I think President Obama does not want her to cast the blame about Libya on him.

I think people should always be skeptical about politicians. They poll to find out whether you like to see them with their spouses, for heaven's sake. There is no perception issue they do not consider, but not because it is good for us.

And I think anyone pretending to be outraged on Hillary Clinton's behalf is a phony.

Although, yes, I believe she has some sort of health problem.

Mitchell the Bat said...

A rabbit punch, here.

A kidney punch, there.

Below the belt, every once in a while.

Root for the underdog. He always fights fair, same as us, and that's how we know he'll win in the end.

He wants what we want. And when he wins, we will all have won.

Because he's just like us, only better.

Aye, there's the rub.

AllenS said...

Maybe she was drugged and moved to Area 51 so they could perform medical experiments on her. There seems to be something in that brain of hers that they are after.

Here's a picture of me last summer when I visited Area 51. I know about these things.

MayBee said...

Ha ha ha!

If you ever needed proof the outrage is phony, Garage turning SOS Clinton into someone who can not communicate right now is it.

Lem said...

Is one humans life of more value than another's?

To quote an Obama hero.

“Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Shouting Thomas said...

The issue here, Ritmo, is that the left wouldn't give a shit about the health status of a Republican in an issue of this importance.

I'll be satisfied when Clinton appears before Congress and takes the oath. Until then, I want to see continued pressure to force her to appear. If a Republican occupied the office, the press would be baying like hounds until the Secretary of State were produced. The problem here is that the press is not performing its normal adversarial role out of deference to the Obama admin.

Clinton's health issues are issues for her family to be concerned about. I wish her to the best, but my main concern is that she get her ass up there on the stand and testify.

wyo sis said...

Hillary has made a career of hiding, lying, obfuscating, waffling, false accusations and bad faith. If she gets a little pushback she earned it.

Strelnikov said...

I am aghast that you are so despicable. See? I got away with it.

rhhardin said...

You'd think good character would get her testifying before she died, so she'd fulfill an obligation.

Jay said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...

But she has done a very good job as Secretary of State


HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA

You're fucking retarded.

Baron Zemo said...

You know Vinnie the Chin managed to not get indicted for about twenty years by pretending to be crazy.

Hillary has a long way to go to beat that record.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

The issue here, Ritmo, is that the left wouldn't give a shit about the health status of a Republican in an issue of this importance.

I think you are dead-wrong, but I can only speak for myself. But then, I know enough to know that clots are serious in general. You could probably add up all the different "types" (Pogo's on the case) and they'd account for a significant amount of death and disability.

And anyway, Republicans do have a long, illustrious history of being in office when things like this happen. 9/11 and the fucked-up fiascos of the bungled Iraq War come to mind.

Any errors you could attribute to those disasters were much bigger. But if Bush (or his coterie) was hospitalized for something serious, (actually, we can assume nearly any hospitlization is likely to be serious), we wouldn't be charging "COVER-UP!".

I wouldn't be, at least.

Baron Zemo said...

Oh on any objective scale Hillary has been the worst Secretary of State since James Buchanan.

Jay said...

But she has done a very good job as Secretary of State (whatever you think of this episodic non-issue)

Yes!

Because the 1st dead Ambassador since 1980 is like a super-duper non-issue!

I mean, she's so accomplished and stuff!

And you can like list all of her accomplishments pussy, you really can!

Chip Ahoy said...

Upon a glance my brain helpfully provided,

The Chicken pot thickens.

And I go wwww, yes, chicken pot, dumplings floating there because it's so thick. I do like that, yes. In fact, I HAVE SOME !

And the next instant it provided the real post title and I'm all, "OH HER AGAIN."

Chicken pot pie is more interesting. And happy. Aren't we on a be happy kick for new year?

The thing is, I had such high hopes for Hillary in important national office. A chance to prove herself. To shine. That was my hope. For I am a lighthearted somewhat flighty sort compared to heavy conservative standards such as you're used to.

That's happy.

Finally. Smart diplomacy. Says she. Restart button. Complete fail. Here's the thing through these last four years, every time a Secretary of State opens their mouth something sharp and decisive should come out of it. Something so clear that it slices. When SOS speak it should sound like a great mind is there unraveling a gnarly Gordian knot and splaying its strands, laying out the major from the minors and doing so brilliantly, that's what we look for but what we get instead, in every case, every single speech and this is without exception, what we hear instead is wa-wa-wa-wa-wawawa sound of muted trumpet Charles Schultz adultspeaknoise. She never says anything useful, and so she shuts up when the last thing we head from her was her sorry ass cover of Benghazi. And we know who else is shut up too. In jail.

But, so, he's easy to dislike too.

Should have stuck with chicken pot pie. See, the brain does try to help.


Jay said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...

And anyway, Republicans do have a long, illustrious history of being in office when things like this happen


Right, fuckhead!

Because "Republicans" were in office the last time a US Ambassador was killed!

They were!

And, they were "in office" when the East Africa Embassy was blown to bits along with Khobar Towers and the USS Cole.

Pussy.

AllenS said...

She'd have to wear an extra long bathrobe, Baron, so nobody could see her swollen cankles.

schmidt said...

Not insulting the professor, just a neutral party. Shame and snark are the lifeblood of the online world. Buck up.

I tend to agree with garage, I don't think Wonkette wants her to stop. They're just yanking her chain - kinda like she likes to yank others'...

Jay said...

And anyway, Republicans do have a long, illustrious history of being in office when things like this happen. 9/11 and the fucked-up fiascos of the bungled Iraq War come to mind.

You got that right, dipshit!

Because the US Declaring war (with more Democrats supporting said operation than they did in Desert Shield) is like like totally the same as a terrorist attack!

It is!

Hey, remember how "Republicans were in office" during the Oklahoma City bombing, pussy?

john said...

Lets all stop arguing for a while and watch the Rose Bowl.

We can all root for the red and white.

john said...

Actually, cardinal and white.

Both teams. That's strange.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

IMPORTANT BULLETIN! BREAKING

We interrupt your regularly scheduled dose of intrigue to inform you that scientists have now secured a specimen of the endangered species known to the Althouse Commenting Community Incorporated as "Jay". Researchers now have enough evidence to provide to the public a detailed image of what this specimen looks like.

If you come across any information regarding the existence and whereabouts of related creatures, please contact your authorities immediately. Jay is hungry, lonely and has gone without contact of his long-lost community of like-minded and similarly behaving monsters for quite some time. As odious as he is, he too, deserves the love, support and commiseration of beings that share his biology and strange, unique, other behavioral characteristics.

Baron Zemo said...

I know Allan but Vinne the Chin and the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have never been seen in the same place at the same time.

Jay said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...

And anyway, Republicans do have a long, illustrious history of being in office when things like this happen


The US still has troops in Kosovo, you fuckhead.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

IMPORTANT BULLETIN! BREAKING!

We interrupt your regularly scheduled dose of intrigue to inform you that scientists have now secured a specimen of the endangered species known to the Althouse Commenting Community Incorporated as "Jay". Researchers now have enough evidence to provide to the public a detailed image of what this specimen looks like.

If you come across any information regarding the existence and whereabouts of related creatures, please contact your authorities immediately. Jay is hungry, lonely and has gone without contact of his long-lost community of like-minded and similarly behaving monsters for quite some time. As odious as he is, he too, deserves the love, support and commiseration of beings that share his biology and strange, unique, other behavioral characteristics.

machine said...

Such "courage" exhibited here...

Mary Beth said...

You think the blod clot story is weird? How about this -

"A new Foreign Military Intelligence (GRU) report circulating in the Kremlin today is saying that United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton [photo 2nd right] was injured, and a top US Navy Seal Commander killed when their C-12 Huron military passenger and transport aircraft crash landed nearly 3 weeks ago in the Iranian city of Ahvaz near the Iraqi border." - European Union Times

Jenifer & Richard said...

Why do you equate lively criticism with an attempt to "cut off debate." When you write something, expect criticism. Welcome it and challenge it. Don't turn yourself into a First Amendment martyr.

Kirby Olson said...

Hillary is a blood clot in the brain of Washington. She needs to be removed.

Lem said...

Such "courage" exhibited here...

Most of the time these days, the word hate is being used to intimidate people into silence.

I don't blame you for not wanting to give up that weapon so easily.

Steel Turman said...

Those who want to know the truth about Benghazi pretty much know what happened.

Low information voters don't care and no dose of revelations will ever make them care.

Those responsible will never be made to suffer for their mistakes/incompetence.

How about we stipulate that Benghazi is symptomatic of a much larger malaise and get straight to that?

Liberalism is a mental disorder ...

... how can it be cured?

That is the problem at hand.

pm317 said...

Michael K had it right..

Whatever it is Hillary is going through some kind of health crisis but most people on this blog including Ann fanning the flames look silly. All the more insane because they don't hold Obama accountable to the same degree as they beat up on Hillary.

Baron Zemo said...

Why is it so hard for Hillary to just go up to Congress and tell the truth?

Or General Horny pants?

Or Valarie Jarret?

Or Leon Pancetta that big old ham?

What are they hiding?

If there is nothing there they can just go up and tell the truth and it will be over.

The election is over. The holidays are over. The time for bullshit is over.

Subpeona them and put them to the question.

AllenS said...

The only way you'll get the truth out of Hillary, would be to waterboard her. If you used warm water, you could dissolve that blood clot in her head.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

""A new Foreign Military Intelligence (GRU) report circulating in the Kremlin today is saying that United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton [photo 2nd right] was injured, and a top US Navy Seal Commander killed when their C-12 Huron military passenger and transport aircraft crash landed nearly 3 weeks ago in the Iranian city of Ahvaz near the Iraqi border."

Michael Yon says that people keep sending him links to this story and he finally reported it.

It certainly is puzzling. I have no idea if there is anything to it but Michael Yon is a pretty reliable source as far as I am concerned.

Lem said...

Why do you equate lively criticism with an attempt to "cut off debate."...

I've noticed (not speaking for Althouse) when conservatives criticize its called hate.

bpm4532 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bpm4532 said...

Occam's Razor.

The whole administration and all Democrats want to run out the clock on this issue, thus news on her medical condition that is consistent with delay in her testimony is highly likely to be fabricated.

She'll probably claim memory loss due to the trauma, thus when she testifies we must believe her when she says she can't reacall, but that it wouldn't affect her ability to serve going forward

Inga said...

Ritmo, that's Synova's pet? If found please return it to her forthwith! She said the other evening that it represents mainstream conservatives and isn't as scary as it appears.

As for the use of shaming to shut down discussion, no, no never, never happens here, not never. Not shaming, not insults, not lies, not sexual harassment, nopes.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

If so, let her know that her pet salivates something awfully fierce and has the stench of a slime mold in heat.

It also repeats some really stupid, vaguely human-sounding insults from time to time.

But that just must be the sound of gas escaping from the chambers between its porous fungal protrusions.

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga, you are one of the worst perps of each of the offenses that you list.

You just don't like it when the same tactics are used on you. Then, you go into your Damsel in Distress routine. By the end of the tonight you'll be in full teary eyed martyrdom mode.

Shouting Thomas said...

Badgers getting their asses kicked!

wyo sis said...

"She'll probably claim memory loss due to the trauma, thus when she testifies we must believe her when she says she can't reacall, but that it wouldn't affect her ability to serve going forward."

I was going to say inability to remember the past would be a serious deficit for a politician. But then. . .

Inga said...

May a Badger bite you, ST, that is my New Year's wish.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Oh geez, Shouting. Don't you think it might be time to leave her alone already? Even if just for New Year's? I saw those comments yesterday. Let's just say they weren't the most stomach settling.

Lord knows Inga ain't perfect and can be hypocritical herself from time to time, but she puts up with a lot of crap here that even gets excessive for what's to be expected on this blog. You should give her credit for that.

Shouting Thomas said...

I didn't know that you had that streak of chivalry, Ritmo!

How touching!

machine said...

Uh, didn't use the word "hate" and I don't care if you are silenced...who do you think reads this anyway?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

It's just called being nice.

Inga said...

Thanks Ritmo....I think.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Don't think too hard. ;-) Just accept it.

Shouting Thomas said...

Yes, Inga, that sort of "niceness" from Ritmo is highly suspect. As you can see from the post above, the worm can turn quickly.

wyo sis said...

Be very afraid Inga.

Lem said...

Uh, didn't use the word "hate" and I don't care if you are silenced...who do you think reads this anyway?

machine

MikeDC said...

Of course, no one would have to be outraged in the first place if the folks in government simply explained easily explainable occurrences.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Oh whatever, black-and-white thinker. It's called not thinking in absolutes. I know that sort of thing roils you, but some of live in a world of reality rather than fantasy.

MikeDC said...

Of course, no one would have to be outraged in the first place if the folks in government simply explained easily explainable occurrences.

Inga said...

Be afraid of who Wyo Sis? ST, yes he does scare me a bit, with his virtual rape fantasies.

Lydia said...

Has anyone heard from Graham or McCain since the news of the blood clot?

Think they'll still hang tough re their statements earlier about her having to testify before they'd consider Kerry's nomination for SOS?

I've got a feeling not.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Yes, wy o. Think about whose side you're trying to twist Inga into taking and placing more credibility into.

Shouting has a pretty dark side, sometimes.

garage mahal said...

Pound the fucking ball, Barry. POUND IT.

Inga said...

No one seems to have mentioned HIPAA. Why are Clinton's medical records anyone's business anyway? She isn't President and she will testify when she's able.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

And for the love of Christ! Can't everyone just have an enjoyable New Year's mood, for once?

Debate Clinton's character (as evidenced before) all you want. Stop trying to turn it onto others here. I'm pretty sure that Inga, Thomas and wyo say what they believe in good faith a good amount of the time.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You just don't like it when the same tactics are used on you. Then, you go into your Damsel in Distress routine. By the end of the tonight you'll be in full teary eyed martyrdom mode.

That is the pattern. You left out scolding everyone for being bullies and not standing up for 'ittle Inga. Meanies!!

Shouting Thomas said...

I agree with Althouse.

No holds barred speech. The left is blowing shit out its ass about this Clinton issue. The left doesn't give a shit about civility and personal concern when it attacks its enemies.

So, they have to expect the same in return.

I don't know Clinton personally. I have no personal animosity toward her. Her sole function in relationship to me is her job. It's up to her family to take care of her emotionally. My only interest in her is that she perform her job.

Her job is to get her ass up on Capital Hill, take the oath and tell the truth.

Inga said...

Ah, right on cue DBQ! Hey look it's the Apocalypse!

machine said...

Ed Zachary!

Dante said...

Should have stuck with chicken pot pie. See, the brain does try to help.

Great post. I can't imagine how incredibly difficult being SOS (help me) could be given the current US position. Globally interconnected economy. Massive dependence on ME oil. Inability to get at US reserves. Rising Asia with very different view of government and its role. PCism perhaps disallowing the obvious solutions, which is to get the Arabian tribes to fight each other.

It has to be a complete nightmare trying to weave everything together, and to keep up the view that the current administration is somehow more compassionate, while US drones are flying over sovereign others sovereign territory and killing people.

How about, let's forget about Batteries. The energy density isn't there, and requires research to get there. Plus, China controls the rare earth metals, and they don't like to compete on the global market, let alone share to solve the big problems we get our panties in a tizzy over here. I understand Natural Gas may not be a great substitute, because the molecules are so small its difficult to make a generally safe car.

What is a SOS to do? Too many restrictions, too much spinning. I can't even imagine all the intellectual energy that has to go in with trying t spin up all the contradictions into what looks like a coherent story.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Yeah Shouting! You tell them!

All those times "the left" (how amorphous!) beat its chest and hounded Cheney about going in for endless surgeries to replace his unloving heart over and over again with more acceptably robotic replacements - when what he should have been doing was testifying! Those jerks! Sooooo mean!!!!

Baron Zemo said...

Ed Munster!

Shouting Thomas said...

When you were concerned about you daughter's safety, Inga, you wanted the world to stop and all U.S. policy crafted to address your concerns about her.

You seem to have a quite different attitude about the deaths of four American public servants and the affect that might have on their families.

You are one of the most resolutely blind people I've seen in this respect. It's all about what you want. What you want should become an all consuming public debate, and fuck everybody else.

McTriumph said...

My sources tell me Hillary did fall and suffer a concussion, hence the blood clot. Seems she woke to answer a 3:00 AM phone call from the White House and tripped over a bankerbox of missing Rose Law Firm files that had mysteriously appeared in the middle of her master bedroom floor.

Jenner said...

Amen, let's talk about Benghazi.
I also think, if this really is true, they tried to minimize Hillary's injury/illness in the beginning, and now it cannot be minimized any longer. So either way, more lying.

Shouting Thomas said...

I don't have the inclination to go searching for the proof, Ritmo, but I remember numerous leftists screeching that they hoped Cheney croaked from his health issues.

Not to mention the bitter invective and joking about his hunting accident.

Inga said...

ST, you haven't read one comment I've made since the beginning in which I said if the administration is found to be negligent, let the chips fall where they may, nor do you recall how many times I called for investigations?

Apparently you have selective memory impairment.

sydney said...

It sounds like she had a cerebral vein thrombosis. It does, indeed, affect your mental status, so she may not be thinking too clearly for a while. And it is a very serious condition. They should have been more transparent about it since she is embroiled in a significant public controversy. Or maybe her doctors missed it initially and don't want to draw attention to that fact. It is easy to miss.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

The hunting accident was seen as an analogy for his carelessness with people who weren't just his friends. Maybe it was fair, maybe it wasn't. But he certainly didn't suffer more for it than the guy he shot. Fair or not, analogies are what make for humor.

And if Cheney ever came across as a human, caring person, even once, then no one would have thought his inability to sustain the human heart he was born with would have been in the slightest bit funny.

These are the very basic human issues that you forget about so quickly when lecturing us on humility, humanity, hubris,...

Shouting Thomas said...

So, Inga, let's hear you say it...

Clinton's health concerns aren't of great importance in the public debate.

If she can be pushed into Congress in a wheelchair, and she is mentally competent to testify, then she should get her ass over to Capital Hill and testify... Now!

miss j said...

One doesn't have to believe that Benghazi is unimportant to be appalled at your callous disregard for the significance of her fall and head injury.

It's illogical for you to assume that anyone who dislikes the mocking of the injured is expressing that dislike merely because they disagree with your faulty assumption that she was derelict in her duties.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Or maybe her doctors missed it initially and don't want to draw attention to that fact. It is easy to miss.

Yes! Yes! Why stay in the hospital for a thorough check-up to fully realize THE EXTENT of your life-threatening condition when there is political intrigue to make hay out of!

Seriously. These Republicans are behaving like the HMOs they pushed on the American people and couldn't accept as the unacceptable model when moving forward with the health care debate. CLINTON'S RUINING OUR LENGTH-OF-STAY STATISTICS! GET HER OUT! We need the bed for patients with shorter turn-around times!!!

Shouting Thomas said...

And if Cheney ever came across as a human, caring person, even once, then no one would have thought his inability to sustain the human heart he was born with would have been in the slightest bit funny.

There's the left's argument for it's viciousness. Their opponents are brutal creeps who deserve it.

On the other hand, the left's heroes are good people.

Thanks for the concession, Ritmo.

Quaestor said...

Ritmo wrote:
And Republicans aren't necessarily all authoritarians either.

Authoritarianism just something they practice as a hobby, is that it?

[Clinton] has done a very good job as Secretary of State (whatever you think of this episodic non-issue)

Partial translation: The murder of our ambassador to Libya is a non-issue. It didn't happen, and even if it did you are not permitted to have an opinion about it at odds with the wisdom of the ruling class. Nor may you question the performance of Hillary Clinton in the office of Secretary of State, which has been very good in spite of what you may think or evidence you may offer to the contrary. (I offer this as a partial translation because Ritmo's unconventional use of the term episodic may significantly alter the meaning of his text.)

For crying out loud.

Translation: You should be ashamed of questioning authority.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

One doesn't have to believe that Benghazi is unimportant to be appalled at your callous disregard for the significance of her supposed fall and head injury.

There. FIFY.

I do not believe one word of what they are saying about Clinton. Not one. When you lie over and over and lie when there is not any need....NO.ONE.BELIEVES.YOU.

Inga said...

Yeah right ST, anything you demand. It's her brain that she will need to testify, BTW.

Perhaps you should send her healing thoughts when in your next yoga session, yup, that should help, then she can testify posthaste!

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Their opponents are brutal creeps who deserve it.

I don't know what Cheney "deserves" when it comes to the wear and tear of his body and the organ of passion and love, but you can poll the American people for how compassionate a person they ever found him to be.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

And I don't think you'll like the answer.

Deal with reality.

Gene said...

I love it when Ann is tough like she is here. Few big time bloggers have her guts. They fold like a cheap umbrella at any expression of outrage and humbly promise never to do it again.

john said...

Monty Hall scored.

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