November 8, 2012

"Liberals, you should rein in the triumphalism."

Says the liberal Kevin Drum:
Obama won a narrow 51-49 percent victory and the composition of Congress changed only slightly. This was not a historic vindication of liberalism, and it doesn't mean that we can suddenly decide that demography will sweep us to victory for the next couple of decades. The plain truth is that although an increasing number of voters are turned off by what Republicans represent, that doesn't mean they've become lefty converts. A lot of them are still pretty nervous about a big part of our agenda, and we have a lot of work ahead to get them more solidly on our side. Also: No matter how much you hate to hear it, long-term deficit reduction and entitlement reform really are pretty important. Just because conservatives abuse the point doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

242 comments:

1 – 200 of 242   Newer›   Newest»
Jay Retread said...

Agreed

leslyn said...

He's right. Now, who's going to tell the cons to stop being nasty?

chickelit said...

They won't let up until the Mormon Church embraces homosexuality.

edutcher said...

Considering what we're seeing in Staten Island and Jersey is "Liberalism" at its finest, yeah, easy on the triumphalism.

It's ringing hollow already.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
Considering what we're seeing in Staten Island and Jersey


What exactly are we 'seeing' there? It was a fucking natural disaster. Not getting the meaning of the word disaster?

jr565 said...

No matter how much you hate to hear it, long-term deficit reduction and entitlement reform really are pretty important. Just because conservatives abuse the point doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

wow you don't say. If conservatives abuse the point it's because liberals have their fingers in their ears and have refused to understand this point. And keep saying NANANAN I CAN'T HEAR YOOUUUUUUUU!!!!!" while the grown ups keep making the point. And then say that's abusing the point.
I'm glad he noticed that there is SOMETHING to it. Perhaps he'd like to explain it to the rubes who voted
Obama despite not only knowing this, but also knowing that7.9% unemployment rate for three years is not a good record. There might be SOMETHING to too.

leslyn said...

Considering the charnel house that was Katrina, it seems too easy to forget.

Lem said...

Also: No matter how much you hate to hear it, long-term deficit reduction and entitlement reform really are pretty important. Just because conservatives abuse the point doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

Good.

Patrick said...

No matter how much you hate to hear it, long-term deficit reduction and entitlement reform really are pretty important. Just because conservatives abuse the point doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

I'm not sure how making this point would qualify as "abusing" it. Given the scope of the problem, I doubt it's been emphasized enough.

Irene said...

Yes. And liberals have acknowledged in the last two days that we are on the edge of a "fiscal cliff."

No wonder George Lucas sold to Disney: pre-death estate planning.

YoungHegelian said...

The Democrats have some big problems on their hands with their "big tent", i.e. the people in it REALLY don't like each other very much.

Urban white liberals really like minorities, until their kids have to go to school with them, or they get served by them at the DMV. Ultimately, it's a protection racket, with white liberals paying to keep the minorities (with, of course, celebrated exceptions that they admit into their midst) away. You think I'm wrong. Then get a liberal chick in the same room with a black guy & talk about gays, women, and religion.

As for blacks and Latinos, they're basically at war for the title of most favored minority. What the Latinos want -- amnesty for the illegals here --- NO ONE can give them, because it would upset the balance of power in multiple states, and erase black power in states like CA.

As blue state & Federal budgets tighten, as they must, things are going to get real ugly in the spoils machines that are the local Democratic Parties.

Curious George said...

Wasn't Obama cutting the deficit in half over the last four years enough?
Now he has to push granny off the cliff too?

Joe P. said...

I was good with his post, but reading the comments, pretending that the national debt means nothing, was painful. Do these people have any idea what money actually is, or what people are trying to accomplish when they use it?

leslyn said...

"The grown ups" v. "the rubes." Yep, cons still being nasty. I don't know; maybe it's good that they have a North star.

It was funny to hear a "grown up" yelling "NANANANANANA," though.

Elle said...

"turned off by what Republicans represent"

What exactly do Rs represent? I mean, in the real world. I know I'm supposed to be a racist bigot homophobe, but all this Republican wants is a budget.

Please.

Inga said...

What conservatives don't want to hear is that we do understand that deficit reduction and entitlement reform have to be addressed and dealt with.

WHY were conservatives so hell bent on controlling women's health options, yes I mean access to abortions. It seemed as if they weren't truly committed to legislating, but instead were biding their time with anti abortion legislation, running out the clock until the next election.

They obstructed, filibustered and wasted time on social issues.

YoungHegelian said...

@Inga,

They obstructed, filibustered and wasted time on social issues.

Remind me again -- whose convention had speaker after speaker on the topic of abortion?

Geez, I remember a political party that in 1992 said at their convention that they wanted abortion to be "safe, legal, & rare."

I wonder where that political party went to?

AReasonableMan said...

What pisses off liberals is that when Bush was running up the deficit almost no one on the right, with only one clear cut exception, Bruce Bartlett, was willing to call foul.

Then, in the middle of a financial crisis, suddenly the debt became the sole economic issue of importance. It looked more than a little hypocritical.

I agree the debt is important. It has to be dealt with in a way that doesn't kill our modest recovery nor exacerbate the enormous wealth disparities in the country. I don't think many liberals disagree with this.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Bit of a Freudian slip regarding the "skyrocketing incomes". Did he really mean to describe these as something needing a corrective?

chickelit said...

Inga said...
What conservatives don't want to hear is that we do understand that deficit reduction and entitlement reform have to be addressed and dealt with.

If that's true then Kevin Drum is out of touch with liberals.

So for the sake of getting along, who's right--Inga or Kevin Drum?


Paul said...

AReasonableMan,

THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T DO EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE WITHOUT TAKING EVERYTHING FROM EVERYONE!!

And even then they still can't do it.

Hence with Katrina or Sandy, the government not only could not provide basics they could not provide security AFTER the hurricane.

We depend to much on the government and we are way way over our head in debt. A debt that cannot be ignored, defaulted, or just passed along anymore without huge consequences.

And I bet another recession is on the way (and a war in the Middle East.)

So I suggest every citizen prepare themselves and families and don't depend on the government, cause the government will be real busy just protecting itself.

Patrick said...

we do understand that deficit reduction and entitlement reform have to be addressed and dealt with.

The President has shown little to no interest in the problem, and has done nothing to solve it. When he and Boehner were close to an agreement on the debt, the President sabotaged it. You may not want to hear it, but go ask Bob Woodward. The President is not serious on this issue, and is not credible in the least.

Social issues indeed.

carrie said...

What do they mean an increasing number of voters are turned off by what republicans represent? It took a lot of coverup about what the Obama administration really is about and what it has and has not done to barely get a majority of the vote. If you take out the fraud, it may have been even closer than 51% to 49%. The liberals cannot claim a mandate until voters have the full truth about both sides before they cast their votes. The MSM protection of liberals taint the vote and historians should put an asterisk by Obama's win in the history books.

AReasonableMan said...

Inga said...
WHY were conservatives ... running out the clock until the next election.

They obstructed, filibustered and wasted time on social issues.


Exactly. The republican house have not been a profile in courage with respect to dealing with the deficit. Unwilling to take a deal that predominately reduced spending with relatively small increases in revenue.

No deal is going to get done without increases in revenue. The Bush tax cuts expire automatically. Obama and the Dems can just wait it out. The republican house is just wasting time at this point.

Patrick said...

What pisses off liberals is that when Bush was running up the deficit almost no one on the right, with only one clear cut exception, Bruce Bartlett, was willing to call foul.

Remember when GWB was really, really unpopular? When he lost the support of much of the Right? Due to his overspending. He was very unpopular on the right due to his overspending.

Not to mention the fact that the President now is worse. Seems to think he can make it up taxing rich people. Either he's lying about that, or incredibly ignorant.

Franklin said...

Fuck Liberals. Let it burn.

Patrick said...

The Bush tax cuts expire automatically.

You mean the tax cuts that President Obama signed into law?

Inga said...

Hegelian, it was an issue at the Convention only because conservatives made it be one.

With all the anti abortion legislation in the House and state legislatures, liberal women understood clearly what was at stake. If conservatives didn't want women to be concerned about their right to choose, then Republicans should've concentrated on the economy instead of wasting time on anti abortion legislation.

AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
Inga said...
What conservatives don't want to hear is that we do understand that deficit reduction and entitlement reform have to be addressed and dealt with.

If that's true then Kevin Drum is out of touch with liberals.

So for the sake of getting along, who's right--Inga or Kevin Drum?


Inga.

Oso Negro said...

Yes, it is a wise idea not to engage in triumphalism when your "victory" smells funny.

http://www.punditpress.com/2012/11/fraud-in-pa-obama-got-over-99-of-vote.html

Franklin said...

Liberals only want to expand entitlements and destroy religious liberties.

Fuck em.

pm317 said...

Boeing lay-offs announced day after election.. I hope they pick all Obama voters to lay off.

YoungHegelian said...

@Inga,

No, Inga, the Dems played young women like a fiddle. You know why? Because as every advertiser will tell you, it's much easier to play women than men. Every commercial for women's products plays to their insecurities, as did the Dems. You can't do that with guys -- they're too slovenly & I-don't-give-a-fuck to be played.

No, the Dems played to abortion because every middle-class white chick in the country worries that her meticulously planned career & love life will come to a crashing end when her sex life produces a "mistake" for all the world to see. Young single white women desperately want that abortion escape hatch.

deborah said...

It appears that Mitt's Mormonism did sink him, along with being a hawk.

Marshal said...

Inga said...
What conservatives don't want to hear is that we do understand that deficit reduction and entitlement reform have to be addressed and dealt with.


People concerned about debt don't demonize those who address it or have trillion dollar giveaways and then claim to understand the issue. The left doesn't care about the debt and never has.

Whining about obstruction is the most disingenuous lie I've ever heard. Democrats were nothing but obstructionists for 8 years with someone who was truly bipartisan. When they took the reigns Republicans were excluded from the discussions and told they could read the bills after they passed.

There just isn't any way to have an adult discussion with people so delusional they think Republicans are the obstructionists.

jr565 said...

Areasonable man wrote:

edutcher said...
Considering what we're seeing in Staten Island and Jersey

What exactly are we 'seeing' there? It was a fucking natural disaster. Not getting the meaning of the word disaster?

oh wow you have some perspective. Tell me, do you think that liberals treated Katrina as a storm beyond govts control to deal with. Because I remember the libs going on about how Bush KNEW that the levees were breached, how he was personally responsible for the response, and how he didn't care about black people all in real time.
Yet suddenly you want rational responses and non poliltization about a natural disaster infinitely smaller and less consequential in terms of damage. Where's the bottled water for Staten Island?! Why are the FEMA locations closed? Why after a week is there still no power? Why did he make one statement about the storm and then forget all about NY? You'd think he forgot about them. Face it, Obama just doesn't care for Staten Island because they're white.

How's that? Shut the hell up about asking for reasoned non political respinses to natural disasters. Your side broke the mold.

Elle said...

I guess I was too busy number crunching - afraid to ask, but would like to be educated, so here it goes -

Inga - what anti abortion legislation?

LoafingOaf said...

To a large degree these presidential races are about the personal qualities of the people running more than the issues themselves (and a lot of folks are torn between the two parties on the issues anyway). There have been three superstar politicians in America in my lifetime - Reagan, Clinton, and Obama.

Who do the Democrats have on deck? Will their next field of candidates have a superstar? It's possible but you can't count on it.

There's also the huge advantage incumbents have in these races, but there'll be no incumbent next time.

I was too young to vote when Reagan was president, and I didn't like Clinton, and my feelings on Obama have become so mixed I abstained from the presidential race this week (though I wound up feeling sorta happy he won). I'm just saying, those sort of highly charismatic characters aren't guaranteed to come along each election cycle.

jr565 said...

Inga said:
Waah waah waah waah abortions. Waah waah waah waah abortions.

Inga said...

Jr said whaaaa whaaaa whaaaa, we lost the election, we are losers! :)

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

Considering what we're seeing in Staten Island and Jersey

What exactly are we 'seeing' there? It was a fucking natural disaster. Not getting the meaning of the word disaster?


FEMA closes its office in Staten Island because of the weather.

One of the great ports and transportation hubs in the world can't get enough gas (funny, the price here jumped $.40 in less than a day).

People are stuck without power until Christmas.

That's the Welfare State, and, yes, it truly is a disaster.

What pisses off liberals is that when Bush was running up the deficit almost no one on the right, with only one clear cut exception, Bruce Bartlett, was willing to call foul.

No Tom Coburn, no Jim DeMint, no Porkbusters, no Instapundit?

Troll isn't a fool, he's a liar.

And I don't recall any Lefties squawking that loud when they passed these bills.

Democrats have been saying, "Deficits don't matter", for 80 years.

Only when their profligacy - subprime mortgages, anyone? - causes a crash do they "care".

Stick it someplace.

SteveR said...

They do pretty well in national elections when Bill Clinton or Obama run but otherwise not so well. Considering how f--ed up establishment Republicans have managed things, liberals can't feel completely on top but still I'd be damn happy.

Inga said...

Elle, seriously??? No wonder your side lost.

Inga said...

Elle, google it I'm sure you'll get thousands of hits.

Revenant said...

although an increasing number of voters are turned off by what Republicans represent

I'm curious what the supposed evidence for that statement is.

The Republicans lost a couple of House seats, gained a couple of Senate seats, and slightly increased their share of the popular vote from 2008. That doesn't suggest much movement in public opinion re: Republicans.

Elle said...

Inga - I asked an honest question. I'm willing to admit I don't know, because I feel like there are much larger problems facing this country than whether or not every single woman can have access to on-demand abortions.

But thanks for blowing me off. No wonder I usually skip over your comments.

Chip Ahoy said...

retardswhothinktwentytrilliondollarsnationaldebtisagoodideasezwhat?

Inga said...

Elle, no you weren't honestly asking, you were trying to lay some sort of trap. If you seriously have not heard of any anti abortion legislation then you've been living under a rock.

And you are a political blogger of some sort?

Marshal said...

Luckily A Reasonable Man has solved the debt crisis by pointing out reversing the Bush tax cuts will bring in 950 billion over ten years. This of course leaves $50 billion as a down payment on next year's deficit after paying off the 900 billion from this year. Presumably he'll get back to us and let us know whether years 11-20 of the Bush tax cut revenue will cover more than 100 billion of the following year's deficit.

I'm not quite following how the ten to one ratio shows we make progress, apparently it's lefty math. But I'm sure we can expect more details shortly. I know I'm relieved having Top Men on the job.

Inga said...

Hegelian, bullshit.

Marshal said...

jr565 said...
Because I remember the libs going on about how Bush KNEW that the levees were breached, how he was personally responsible for the response, and how he didn't care about black people all in real time.


Interestingly, not just any lib made the 'he doesn't care about black people' accusation. The President of the United States said it.

Elle said...

No trap, I promise, Inga. And no rock either.

The first google link I did get landed me at Mother Jones, maybe that's why I hadn't heard much about it. Not mainstreamy enough.

And no, I'm not a political blogger. A has-been mommy blogger who learned Conservative moms aren't particularly welcomed at that play date.

Coketown said...

I think he originally meant, "You should reign in the triumphalism." As in: gloat, rub it in, treat the opposition in congress with even more disrespect than 2009-2011, do whatever you want, etc.

But then he's like, "Wait a minute. I remember feeling quite dour in 2004 when it felt like the slide toward Republican rule was irreversible. What if the same is true today?!"

Then he realized we're heading over a fiscal cliff, and eventually the Democrats will have to say to their black and Hispanic base: "Hey, yeah, you know all those social services you're heavy consumers of and you keep voting us in to expand? Yeah...we're having to make cutbacks. Sorry."

Right now it's easy to vote Democrat because we have reasonably low taxes and very expensive social services financed through borrowing and debt. We'll see how people vote when they finally have to pay for their huge government.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said..
One of the great ports and transportation hubs in the world can't get enough gas
People are stuck without power until Christmas.


I heard Hannity whining about this today. The dumb shit seemed to be unaware that the gas companies and the utilities are examples of private enterprise failing.

The idiots running the gas stations failed to install generators. The refineries failed to protect their plant against a well predicted storm surge. And, worst of all the power companies are unwilling to put their fucking power lines underground. I can't tell you how many times I have lost power because of this.

Inga said...

Elle, I suggest taking the next few days and educate yourself, if you are sincere you may be surprised at the number of anti abortion legislation across the country by Republican majority held state houses and in the House since 2010. Start reading.

AReasonableMan said...

deborah said...
It appears that Mitt's Mormonism did sink him.


Do you have a link to this? I have heard this suggested by several people. It does seem to be the only explanation for the decline in total votes compared to McCain.

elcrain said...

Someone who calls himself "A Reasonable Man" calls Sean Hannity "A Dumb Shit."

Ad hominem is never reasonable.

Broomhandle said...

The real fun begins in a few years when the Crats have to decide which of their dependencies get the remaining crumbs in the cookie jar. Will it go to the pensions of white, middle-class, Boomer government employees or to the entitlements of their captive-vote minorities? There's no way in hell there'll be enough money for both, especially with the declining revenues of the New Normal. The Grand Democrat Coalition is perilously fragile.

Revenant said...

The notion that Democrats can "just let the Bush tax cuts expire" is silly. Tax increases on the middle class are about as popular as rectal cancer. *California*, of all places, just rejected one 2:1. They won't even be able to blame Bush for the expiration, since the current expiration date was signed into law by Obama.

No, they'll need to do what they have been doing -- holding the middle-class tax rates hostage to tax increases for "the rich". If they do that, the press can spin the expiration of the cuts as being due to Republican stubbornness. If they "do nothing", Republicans get to run on a "we tried to keep your taxes from going up, but the Democrats stopped us" platform.

Obama may be that dumb, but Reid and Pelosi didn't survive this long by infuriating middle-class voters.

Revenant said...

It takes special effort to devote a hundred words and a half-dozen posts to the act of not answering a simple question.

A lesser individual would simply not respond. The extended unresponsive response is an art form few do well.

AReasonableMan said...

elcrain said...
Someone who calls himself "A Reasonable Man" calls Sean Hannity "A Dumb Shit."

Ad hominem is never reasonable.


Come on, Hannity is a public figure, and his public persona, at least, really is a bit stupid. He makes a lot of money though, can't argue that.

Elle said...

Since I've sworn off televised news until at least January, I will get to reading. I am, however, certain that my vote wouldn't have changed. Selfishly, abortion rights is not a Top 10 issue for me.

Marshal said...

ARM,

I put in a call to the White House alerting them that you've solved the debt problem. They're monitoring the Althouse blog and are ready to jump over to MSNBC. This is your big chance to educate us more than one at a time.

jr565 said...

Inga, you are SUCH a hypocrite on this or a blithering idiot. If you are talking about the whole debate on personhood, what is YOUR personal position on abortion?
It's that life begins at conception and is thus murder. And yet republicans saying that if that's so then said life should be protected makes THEM extremists.
You have the same position as those arguing for personhood. You just think having a vagina entitles a mother to kill that person.

Eric said...

What conservatives don't want to hear is that we do understand that deficit reduction and entitlement reform have to be addressed and dealt with.

I see no indication this is true, unless by "reform" you mean "pile on that sweet government lucre 'til it reaches the sky".

Eric said...

They won't even be able to blame Bush for the expiration, since the current expiration date was signed into law by Obama.

Hah! A year from now if you ask a random Democrat on the street he'll tell you tax cuts are all Bush. Of course they'll blame Bush. That's all they have.

AReasonableMan said...

Revenant said...
The notion that Democrats can "just let the Bush tax cuts expire" is silly.

No, they'll need to do what they have been doing -- holding the middle-class tax rates hostage to tax increases for "the rich". If they do that, the press can spin the expiration of the cuts as being due to Republican stubbornness.


As you point out, the press are unlikely to take the Republicans side on this. Letting the tax cuts expire remains a pretty good threat given the public's low opinion of the Republican house. Grandstanding over the debt ceiling wasn't a winning strategy, except in the Charlie Sheenian sense.

edutcher said...

AReasonableMan said...

One of the great ports and transportation hubs in the world can't get enough gas
People are stuck without power until Christmas.


I heard Hannity whining about this today. The dumb shit seemed to be unaware that the gas companies and the utilities are examples of private enterprise failing.


No, Con Edison is a public utility and doubtless regulated out the wazoo.

In any case, the Feds should have rolled the Army in there to take over if Con Ed couldn't handle it.

They can't seem to manage it.

Heckuva job, Barry.

The idiots running the gas stations failed to install generators. The refineries failed to protect their plant against a well predicted storm surge. And, worst of all the power companies are unwilling to put their fucking power lines underground. I can't tell you how many times I have lost power because of this.

Bloomie had the generators reserved for the marathon, remember?

And, if putting the lines underground and putting up gates was so important, why wasn't it handled by Little Zero's Stimulus?

Oh, that's right, not enough graft.

As I say, "Liberalism" at its finest.

Inga said...

Ugh, if you think I'm going to get into an abortion debate with any of you conservatives ever again, think again. It's been discussed ad nauseum and consensus will never be reached between such polar opposite ideologies. MASSIVE waste of my time.

Chip Ahoy said...

See, if you have a baby, you could bring your baby into wealth. Born into wealth. That's what you could do. Wealthy people could show you how to do that. How to birth your babies into wealth. Isn't that a beautiful idea?

You want to know how stupid I am? See, I know I think stupid things, but half of you are so stupid you can't even think up that much self-awereness. I thought family planning helped people who need help to plan how to bring their babies into wealth and be economically ready for all that. And they do. By preventing births and killing them! Damn, I'm dumb. I thought Family Planning was like Home Economics for retarded people, and it is!

The people who did this and gleed so fervently are the people who have Japanese octopus dreams. Government as octopus and it's all up in your holes and you love it. You do. It's ecstatic. It's giving you a sense of personal protection and it's taking what it needs and it rifles your pants, undoes them and changes your pants and rifles each pocket of the fresh pants. and you love the weight of your octopus lover, fickle, feckless, ink obfuscating sucking taking bastard that gives you protection. Retarded slave/serf ravage me protect me dreams.

Lord is this why you put me here? To explain these retards to themselves? They don't listen to anything.

*drums fingers*

Okay, you got the whole number thing, right? It's different in Europe. Check me if I'm wrong it goes

We're at 8 trillion and everybody freaks because Bush is truly the Antichrist to do this. I don't know. I read 5, I read 3, but for retard math and only trillions lets just say 8. We hire a guy to fix it, he said himself that was unpatriotic and looks so sincere and he does have girls of his own. In half the time he doubles it to sixteen trillion dollars in national debt. Surely, he must go, for now the unpatriotic thing is twice as worse, four times, actually because that was twice as fast. Goes like this in the U.S.

nine hundred ninety-nine billion and then one more billion and boink seventeen trillion then
nine hundred ninety-nine billion and then one more billion and boink eighteen trillion then
nine hundred ninety-nine billion and then one more billion and boink nineteen trillion then
nine hundred ninety-nine billion and then one more billion and boink twenty trillion and no end in sight.

That's what half of you voted for because when balanced with your psychologically damaged emotionally scrambled developmental atavism the weight of trillions of debt failed to go THUNK.

I flip you off.

I hold my flip and spread it all around, I flip you ALL off in a full 360 flip off. It's horrible. The carnage is indiscriminate I flip off retards and non retards alike. And now I'm sorry. Watch the retards that just clamped on chains tell everybody how they vote agains their own interest.

Know how bad my contempt is? I was doing a crossword and nailing down the theme and a fill answer was the name of an actress and in an instant my interest in pursuing the theme or the closure or the victory of a difficult solve evaporated like that *poof* and I verbalized "retard" and dropped the puzzle into the trash.

AReasonableMan said...

Marshal said...
I put in a call to the White House alerting them


Another sad desperate cry for attention.

Eric said...

...given the public's low opinion of the Republican house.

This is a meaningless statement, politically. Sure, everybody thinks Congress is terrible. But they think their own Congressman, Democrat or Republican, is doing just peachy.

If they really had such a low opinion of the Republican house, whey did they return the Republicans to power in the house?

Congressional approval ratings have been going down because gerrymandering is now a "big data" exercise. The parties are getting really good at it. If you're in a Democratic district, the Republicans don't care what you think because they have no chance in that district. And vice versa.

jr565 said...

Also, in regards to the personhood legislation, those passing it said the following:
Marshall said his bill, modeled after legislation in Missouri, would not affect birth control, miscarriages or abortions but would affect the way that courts define a person. For example, parents could receive damages for the death of a fetus in a wrongful death lawsuit.

“To claim using birth control will get you in trouble with this statue is simply false,’’ Marshall said. “It does not have the affect of criminalizing birth control. This does not directly effect abortion.’’

we can debate whether his bill would ultimately effect the legalities of abortion, but as he argues it wouldn't apply.
Speaking if the bolded part- remember Scott Peterson, the guy who killed his pregnant wife and was charged with two cases of murder? Do you think that second murder charge was justified? Since he essentially did what mothers do all the time and they don't call it murder.

Eric said...

The dumb shit seemed to be unaware that the gas companies and the utilities are examples of private enterprise failing.

Oh please. How do regulated monopolies intersect with the set of "private enterprise"?

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
AReasonableMan said...
The idiots running the gas stations failed to install generators. The refineries failed to protect their plant against a well predicted storm surge. And, worst of all the power companies are unwilling to put their fucking power lines underground. I can't tell you how many times I have lost power because of this.

edutcher said...
Bloomie had the generators reserved for the marathon, remember?


It's the governments job to provide generators for gas stations? They have all the fucking fuel, if any one should have generator it is these nitwits.

Marshal said...

AReasonableMan said...
Marshal said...
I put in a call to the White House alerting them

Another sad desperate cry for attention.


Another deflection from someone whose mouth is bigger than his brain. Next time you're bragging about educating us try not to prove yourself an utter fool five times in one thread.

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:

Ugh, if you think I'm going to get into an abortion debate with any of you conservatives ever again, think again. It's been discussed ad nauseum and consensus will never be reached between such polar opposite ideologies. MASSIVE waste of my time.

and yet you keep bringing up abortion.

mccullough said...

Liberals want to balance the budget by cutting defense and raising taxes on the rich.

Cutting defense spending by 25 percent (which would lead to a huge recession) and tax hikes on the rich will get at best about $300 billion a year off a $1 trillion deficit, assuming unemployment and economic growth stayed at the same rates they are today.

So where does the other $700 billion from this year's deficit come from. And as more Boomers keep turning 65, Medicare spending will be increasing every year, so the deficits will keep getting bigger starting next year.

There is no way with the level of federal spending we will continue to have, even with drastic defense cuts and some sort of entitlement reform, that taxes won't go up on everyone. We're looking at effective federal tax rates of 50 percent for the rich and 30 percent for the middle class.

Now add in the shitty conditions of California and Illinois and New York and their local governments. These states already tax the shit out of their residents. Only morons like Kevin Drum will pay 50 percent federal tax rates plus another 10 percent in state taxes, plus property taxes, to live in California.

Anyone with a job is going to get hammered with taxes.

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
Congressional approval ratings have been going down because gerrymandering is now a "big data" exercise. The parties are getting really good at it. If you're in a Democratic district, the Republicans don't care what you think because they have no chance in that district. And vice versa.


I agree with this. Not quite as sanguine about it as you appear to be.

Don't think it changes the political optics. Again, the Republican house's tactics over the debt ceiling clearly contributed to Obama's reelection.

Jane said...

Inga -

There's abortion, and then there's "I demand that you pay for my abortion." (I have and always will be pro-life, and I never will understand why a woman would destroy another life to feel empowered.)

Obamacare and the HHS mandate which was forced on people of conscience stirred up a hornet's nest. And it's not going to go away. I'm sure liberals are salivating about the churches and businesses like Tyndale House who will be forced to spend money to defend their liberties. But don't think the battle's over -- it has just begun. We are more resourceful than you can imagine.

I'm having insomnia over my children owing so much debt, over the fact that people I know are and have been suffering financially, and over the feds taking over health care. These are hard times.

I'm glad our petty little Marxist has to deal with the economy he inherited from himself, and I have vowed not to talk about him in front of my kids any more. I told my son that when he was 12, he would be so lucky to still be so young when Mr. Obama was ancient history forever, so we won't have much longer to wait. My hair will be grayer still, but I have a lot of hope for the coming years, because he has destroyed his party.

Sorun said...

...long-term deficit reduction and entitlement reform really are pretty important.

It would be incredibly entertaining to watch liberals try to deal with "entitlement reform," but that reform will probably only happen when the pendulum swings back to the right in a few years.

Helen said...

Yahoo right now is featuring an article, “Why Social Security is running out of money,” on its main page.

Liberals are shameless. They know everything is about to hit the fan, so now that it’s safe must break the news to their poor, misguided followers.

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
Oh please. How do regulated monopolies intersect with the set of "private enterprise"?


They make a profit for somebody and they gouge on prices when they can get away with it.

Inga said...

Jr. I brought It up only in the context of explaining why women voters by 55% voted Democratic.

Sorun said...

"It's been discussed ad nauseum and consensus will never be reached between such polar opposite ideologies. MASSIVE waste of my time."

Inga, consider the prospect of coming to a "concensus" on fetus killing. I'm happy you've decided to stop trying to reach some sort of concensus.

Inga said...

Jane, you think a woman would destroy her own baby to feel empowered? That's why women have abortions?


Out of touch.

Elle said...

That stat blows me away - to hell with the children who already walk this great country.

I'm hopeful that at least some of that 55% have better reasons than just abortion to vote Dem.

mccullough said...

ARM,

The profit margins in utilities are regulated. The margins are very small. If they wanted to update their infrastructure, they need to increase prices. To increase prices, they need permission from their regulators.

Now, it might have made sense to update the power grid by burying electrical lines underground, but the Stimulus wasn't spent on actual infrastructure. It was wasted.

Inga said...

Sorun, I consider you an unserious commenter here, much like Alex. And you misspelled consensus.

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

It's the governments job to provide generators for gas stations? They have all the fucking fuel, if any one should have generator it is these nitwits.

Actually, they don't which only shows Troll's lack of awareness.

If someone needs to provide gas in times of disaster, it's FEMA and DHS; at the very worst, the ARNG and the Regular Army.

That's the Feds' job. Too bad Barry and Big Sis aren't up to it.

Being the Disloyal Opposition is going to be so much fun the next few years.

PS For someone who claims to be Reasonable, Troll can't seem to be able of expressing himself without swearing.

Inga said...

Yes Elle, there were more reasons.

deborah said...

"Do you have a link to this? I have heard this suggested by several people. It does seem to be the only explanation for the decline in total votes compared to McCain."


No, I've just seen the opinion. It wouldn't be revealed in exit polls because those people didn't vote. But I guess, really it was a mix of three things: Mormonism, hawkish stance, millionaire. People only needed one of those to not be excited enough to show up.

Patrick said...

Now, it might have made sense to update the power grid by burying electrical lines underground, but the Stimulus wasn't spent on actual infrastructure. It was wasted.

Aww, c'mon. Green Energy!

deborah said...

Hey, I heard Big Sis is interested in being Attorney General. You'd think if Rice was out of the running for State, Napolitano would be out for AG, considering the scandal stuff at Homeland.

jr565 said...

Chickelit wrote:

They won't let up until the Mormon Church embraces homosexuality.

Romney should have come out and said marriage is between a man and a woman. And that the Mormon tradition once believed in polygamy (some still do) and were forced to stop engaging in polygamy fir the state of Utah to become part of the decision.
The Supreme Court said the following:
Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."
So he fully understands the idea of being forced to adopt a specific definition of marriage. But Mormons by and large abide by this decision because Romney agrees with the sefinition.
If gays want to make restricting marriage a civil rights issue and if the democrats are suddenly going to make it part of the platform and if they are going to brand anyone who disagrees a bigot, then would the do the same for polygamy now? Because that too is a restriction On people's trying. That too has court cases trying to make the practice legal. That too has hiollywood making tv shows about legalization, and that has a history of govt FORCING people who practiced polygamy of giving up the practice it not have Utah be part of the US.
If the dems don't demand that Mormons be allowed polygamy, then are they not bigots? Was Obama not talking about how we need to accept all loving relationships.
Make the dems choke on the bigotry charge for a change. And if they weren't yet ready to accept polygamy then how can they call others bigots? How can they claim to be a party if inclusion if they are ok with depriving people of rights?

But if they are ok with banning polygamy, and have no plans on making legalization of polygamy as part of their platform then they too, apparently,believe in restricting marriage and where necessary depriving people of their rights.
And besides, Barack Obama only endorsed gay marriage conveniently right before an election, and the peevioua democrat brought in to help campaign for Ovsma believed in traditional marriage enough to pass DOMA? So who is the bigot again?

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
AnUnreasonableTroll said...

It's the governments job to provide generators for gas stations? They have all the fucking fuel, if any one should have generator it is these nitwits.

edutcher said...
Actually, they don't which only shows Troll's lack of awareness.


No. The gas stations near me couldn't pump the fuel they had because they had no electricity. Your efficient private enterprise at work: no electricity - no generators.

Look, I largely agree with many of the complaints about the inefficiency of government but I sometimes wonder whether the people making these complaints have ever worked for a large corporation. Large corporations can make government look good. Extravagant spending, short-sighted policies, endless politicking, large inefficient bureaucracies, big business has them all in spades.

Eric said...

I agree with this. Not quite as sanguine about it as you appear to be.

I don't see where you got that idea. I'm not thrilled with the way things are going at all. I'm not really sure what to do about it, though, since even though every redistricting board seems to have "nonpartisan" in its name, there's no such animal.

Don't think it changes the political optics. Again, the Republican house's tactics over the debt ceiling clearly contributed to Obama's reelection.

I don't see any evidence that's true. That's what Democrats think. It's not what Republicans think, and independents broke heavily for Romney, so I doubt they believe it either. Romney lost because he lost Republicans, not people who were likely to be swayed over the NYT's interpretation of the debt ceiling fight.

WineSlob said...

Sandy Changed Her Name to Katrina
Wherefore Art Thou the Fuck is FEMA?
As Barry Bhenghazied and Giggled
Chris Christie's Tits Jiggled
And Iwo Jima Just Met Hiro-Shima.

Eric said...

They make a profit for somebody and they gouge on prices when they can get away with it.

They make the profit the government tells them they can make. They have to get permission to raise prices or take on debt. It's only a private enterprise in the sense that private citizens are entitled to the profits by virtue of owning it. Control is all in the hands of the state. That's a lot more like fascism than free enterprise.

Darleen said...

an increasing number of voters are turned off by what republicans represent

I'm going to be rude here ... FUCK no. Voters were turned off by what the Leftists defined as represented by conservatives.

Bottom line, Romney IS a decent man of a character that Obama doesn't even deserve to rinse his socks. But the MSM, 24/7 helped push the narrative of FrankenRomney as some mean nasty mustachioed villain out to eat babies and kill grannies.

Exactly the way Leftists portray all conservatives.

Biden made it clear in his derisive laughter and mocking tone. Conservatives aren't mistaken, they are evil scum unworthy of having one word responded to.

Enough. #war.

AReasonableMan said...

deborah said...
"Do you have a link to this? I have heard this suggested by several people. It does seem to be the only explanation for the decline in total votes compared to McCain."


No, I've just seen the opinion. It wouldn't be revealed in exit polls because those people didn't vote. But I guess, really it was a mix of three things: Mormonism, hawkish stance, millionaire. People only needed one of those to not be excited enough to show up.


McCain was even more hawkish but the billionaire thing probably didn't help. McCain had much more of the common man touch.

Curious George said...

"Inga said...
Ugh, if you think I'm going to get into an abortion debate with any of you conservatives ever again, think again. It's been discussed ad nauseum and consensus will never be reached between such polar opposite ideologies. MASSIVE waste of my time."

Yet is all you ever talk about. You brought it up here so stupid fuck.

Of course we have the classic Ooop "I'm 100% Pro Roe v Wade" followed within minutes by "I think abortion should be outlawed for gender selection". You are a moron. A sound bite fucking moron.

Eric said...

McCain had much more of the common man touch.

By which you mean the press and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) managed to paint Romney as an out-of-touch plutocrat by distorting his record at Bain.

Darleen said...

large inefficient bureaucracies, big business has them all in spades.

So? Last I looked, Big Amoral Business doesn't field police forces, run jails or have IRS agents that can seize your property prior to any sort of trial.

A Big Biz that doesn't deliver will go bust as it should.

Only Gov can keep such a bad biz in business.

Such is fascism

Eric said...

Of course we have the classic Ooop "I'm 100% Pro Roe v Wade" followed within minutes by "I think abortion should be outlawed for gender selection". You are a moron. A sound bite fucking moron.

Wait, did she really say that?

jr565 said...

Inga wrote:

Jane, you think a woman would destroy her own baby to feel empowered? That's why women have abortions?


Out of touch.

it shouldn't matter to you why a woman aborts a baby.
And woman have abortions for any number or reasons, even to empower themselves. Or because they don't want a boy or girl or would rather have a career or just feel like it. All of them are equally valid. Do how out of touch are we really?
You seem to think that all abortions must be noble and not about empowerment or not based on selfish or trivial reasons. You're the one out of touch.

If we knew there was a gay gene (which we might discover some day, and a woman aborted her son who has that gene because she "didn't want a fag baby" your only response would have to be "women's right to choose". Right?
If a woman only wanted a boy and kept having girls and so aborted every girl in her womb "women's right to choose". If she got pregnant from s black guy and didn't want any negro baby" woman's right to choose".

wyo sis said...

From my years of being a teacher I can predict that as government is forced to reduce goodies it's going to get very ugly. The biggest takers will be the angriest.

Inga said...

Curious George I love the way Althouse slapped you down over abortion, that was classic. Made me smile for the rest of the day,

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
McCain had much more of the common man touch.

By which you mean the press and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) managed to paint Romney as an out-of-touch plutocrat by distorting his record at Bain.


Come on. McCain was in the navy, went to Vietnam and did poorly in school. Romney got exemptions and went to Harvard. The press weren't helpful to Romney but his biography and manner weren't helpful either. McCain appealed to a broader demographic in this respect.

Chip S. said...

The gas stations near me couldn't pump the fuel they had because they had no electricity.

A commercial generator costs seems to cost around 10 to 15K. I don't know how long one of them can be expected to last in NJ when only used sporadically, so I'm not sure what interest and amortization would be per year, but 1K seems plausible.

Let's suppose that a prolonged power outage like this one occurs on average once every 5 years. That would mean than a gas station would have to expect to make 5K in "excess" profits during such an outage in order for this investment to pay off.

But NJ's brilliant governor has not allowed gas stations to raise their prices during the emergency. That would be mean, nasty "price gouging." So there's no incentive whatsoever for any gas station to buy a standby generator.

But Big Storms prove we need BIg Government, or something.

wyo sis said...

Aaaaaannnnnddddd Chip S hits it out of the park!

Patrick said...

Come on. McCain was in the navy, went to Vietnam and did poorly in school. Romney got exemptions and went to Harvard. The press weren't helpful to Romney but his biography and manner weren't helpful either. McCain appealed to a broader demographic in this respect.

And the Press loved McCain, right up until he ran for President. It's ok, 'cuz they like him now that he's no longer a threat.

Cindy Martin said...

"just because conservative abuse the point"??? Seriously?? It is called planning for the future instead of waiting until things get so bad we institutel severe austerity measures. Dems = never see the forest for the trees.

AReasonableMan said...

Chip S. said...
A commercial generator costs seems to cost around 10 to 15K.
amortization ... 1K seems plausible.
prolonged power outage like this one occurs on average once every 5 years.
a gas station would have to expect to make 5K in "excess" profits ... in order for this investment to pay off.

But NJ's brilliant governor has not allowed gas stations to raise their prices during the emergency. That would be mean, nasty "price gouging." So there's no incentive whatsoever for any gas station to buy a standby generator.


This is not a bad argument, except that 5K over 5 years is an pretty small number given the gross on a gas station. Many individual home owners spend that much on a generator in order to minimize a relatively brief inconvenience.

Sorun said...

"This is not a bad argument, except that 5K over 5 years is an pretty small number given the gross on a gas station."

Yeah, I'm sure the gross on a gas station is quite large.

wyo sis said...

From Reuters
"The breakdown in supplies has prompted calls from lawmakers to introduce rules modeled on hurricane-prone Florida, where key gas stations are required to have access to back-up power within hours of a storm. The suggestion is already meeting with fierce resistance from industry groups, who say purchasing a $30,000 generator would inflict financial hardship on station owners and convenience stores, which on average earn just $45,000 a year."
Reuters

Much blame to go around. Big oil vs small local suppliers re who has generators. All scenarios support the idea that large entities with lots of regulation are much less capable of being nimble in an emergency.
Also points out the cost of a generator for a gas station.

chickelit said...

Is it just me or is Inga writing and sounding more and more like she owns this place?

Eric said...

Come on. McCain was in the navy, went to Vietnam and did poorly in school. Romney got exemptions and went to Harvard.

McCain was in the navy because his father and grandfather were both decorated admirals. That's just about the farthest thing you can be from a "common touch" upbringing.

He's also been a Senator for so long he doesn't remember what it's like to be anything other than a US Senator on a powerful committee.

Chip S. said...

5K over 5 years is an pretty small number given the gross on a gas station.

It's an even smaller number as a percent of gap, which an equally relevant divisor.

The 5K (obviously, a factoid for purposes of illustration) has to be generated entirely during the period when the power is out. Period.

A typical neighborhood gas station might have a capacity of 10K to 15K gallons, but of course only some tanks are full and some are pretty low at any moment. On average, they probably hold maybe 60% of capacity, so let's say 8K gallons. That would mean the seller would have to be able to charge about 65 cents more per gallon during the shortage to cover the extra cost of the generator.

If, as in FL, generators are required, then gas prices are a little bit higher all year round by enough to cover the extra cost. This is probably a sensible regulation in FL.

Chip S. said...

dammit, that's supposed to read "gdp" not "gap".

The new, improved autocorrect on my new toy is too aggressive.

Inga said...

Chickelit, this is the second time you've said this now. What is your problem?

wyo sis said...

Inga
It's so easy. She thinks you're behaving like a spoiled brat who just got a pat on the head from daddy while the sister got a scolding.

MartyH said...

Re: the gas stations-say you have a generator. But the grid is still down, so you are isolated. No automated credit or debit card approval, so you have to phone in to a probably understaffed call center somewhere. That's a pretty good time suck right there.

If power is out and the banks are closed, you will probably be taking in tens of thousands of dollars per day in cash that you can't deposit anywhere, making it more likely you'll get robbed. Of curse, your alarm system is worthless-no grid to carry the signal to the monitoring station.

Similarly, if any of your system require tie-ins to the grid to close out (and maybe they do, I have no idea) you are faced with the same problem.

It's not as trivial as getting a generator.

chickelit said...

@Inga I guess your comment to Sorun inspired me this time. Who says that besides a blog owner or Seven Machos?

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
Come on. McCain was in the navy, went to Vietnam and did poorly in school. Romney got exemptions and went to Harvard.

McCain was in the navy because his father and grandfather were both decorated admirals. That's just about the farthest thing you can be from a "common touch" upbringing.

He's also been a Senator for so long he doesn't remember what it's like to be anything other than a US Senator on a powerful committee.


The comparator is Romney, not an actual regular person.

wyo sis said...

It's all "I'm the good one daddy, arent't I. I did good. I voted for you. She's the naughty one. I'm in charge now huh?"

n.n said...

In their victory, they recognize moderation. How quaint.

They need to recognize the corruption which their philosophy engenders. They need to stop exploiting differentials and gradients between individuals and groups in order to advance their own political, economic, and social standing.

They need to recognize that the problem is not absolute numbers, but relative density. They need to stop promoting converged immigration patterns. They need to recognize that neither eugenics (i.e. involuntary) nor Roe vs Wade (i.e. voluntary) serve any purpose other than devaluing human life.

They need to recognize individual dignity and the intrinsic value of human life.

wyo sis said...

n.n.
great comment. They won't do it because...We won.

wyo sis said...

Gloating has a short shelf life.

Chip S. said...

The comparator is Romney, not an actual regular person.

This is one of your least reasonable comments, ARM.

Mitt Romney is a better person than I am, for sure. I think he's one of the most decent people to run for president that I'm aware of.

I truly regret that he lost this election. I was looking forward to his presidency, and not b/c of any personal tax cuts.

Inga said...

First Wyo Sis, Chickelit is a he , not a she. and Sis, that's silly.

Chickelit, I'm not telling him not to comment here. I'm simply telling him I'm not going to take him seriously as he comes across as unserious. He addressed me, I responded.

What is eating you again? Do you need a hug or something?

Chip S. said...

Inga said...
he comes across as unserious

[must. maintain. self. control.]

Inga said...

Gawd, how many flippin yenta's inhabit is blog's comment section anyway?

wyo sis said...

Sorry chicklit.

Inga said...

Ignoring you Chip, just thought I'd let you know:)

Eric said...

The comparator is Romney, not an actual regular person.

I just don't see how you could look at the two men and think McCain is any less blue blood than Romney.

Plus, when Mormons go on their missions they typically mix with normal people and live pretty modestly.

Eric said...

Gawd, how many flippin yenta's inhabit is blog's comment section anyway?

Yenta's what?

wyo sis said...

Shh, Chip.
She has her fingers in her ears and she's intoning la, la, la, la, la.

AReasonableMan said...

MartyH said...
Re: the gas stations-say you have a generator. But the grid is still down, so you are isolated. No automated credit or debit card approval, so you have to phone in to a probably understaffed call center somewhere.


The ones here were cash only. Predictably, the phones were also out. Another success of private enterprise.

The general point, that there is a cost associated with the generator that has to be made up, is not in dispute. I am pointing out that a system based solely on the priorities of private enterprise is a pretty vulnerable one, as this storm has made abundantly clear. There is no overall planning for the greater good in such a system. Hannity, ridiculously in my view, tried to tag the politicians as the cause of all of the problems with the gas and electricity supply, when this clearly isn't the case.

Sorun said...

Inga, what if there was a Blogger rule that limited a person to 100 comments per day. How sad would that be?

Chip S. said...

Ignoring you Chip

Much appreciated.

wyo sis said...

Reasonable
You certainly have a good point. Did you bring it up when Bush was killing all those poor people in New Orleans?

Inga said...

Eric, yenta, a Jewish word for a nosy busybody, gossiper type.

Inga said...

My pleasure Chip.

AReasonableMan said...

Eric said...
I just don't see how you could look at the two men and think McCain is any less blue blood than Romney.


You guys are seeing something I just don't see. McCain really does come across as more of a regular person, warts and all, to a lot of people. This is not a judgment on either their character or their ability to be president. McCain is a hothead and would most likely have been a pretty bad president.

wyo sis said...

And there is also the point that local people respond fastest and best for the first three days or so. After that people have a reasonable expectation that government entities who are given the responsibility earn their tax dollars by coming to the rescue as well.

Inga said...

Well Soren, what if I got paid by the word?

wyo sis said...

OMG Inga's a yenta!

Inga said...

Yiddish actually.

Inga said...

Sissy, I think you might be trying to emulate me. I know you are fixated by me. That's kind of sweet.

ARM is trying to have a serious discussion here, why don't y'all quit blabbering nonsense.

Sammy said...

"No matter how much you hate to hear it, long-term deficit reduction and entitlement reform really are pretty important. Just because conservatives abuse the point doesn't mean there isn't something to it."


Is this guy for real..." Abuse the point"... Holy shit , liberals are in la la land... and because they dominate the media, they've convinced 51% of the nation to long for the ride.

Are democrats ever held to any standards of decency , these liberals were damning tax hikes because deficits 3% GDP and a defict of 30% in Bush Sr's first term was unsustainable.

Name one country every in histroy to have deficits 10 % of GDP one year besides going 5 years straight..... The only reason the dollar hasn't crashed is because we're the world's currency and the Fed is buying 90% of our debt, for the last 4 years.

People like this clown, are the same people saying housing prices only go up , and giving people mortgages they couldn't afford shouldn't have been about risk management , no it was social mobility for certain groups, so really how can you be against such policies.

What's so sad or poetic justice, depending how you look at it, the people who will get hit the hardest are the people who voted for Obama, the unemployed, blacks, Hispanic, and 18 to 30 years., Spain's unempyment in the age 52% , Greece's 55% and lastly government workers.

And the so called elites in power now , who think they will manage Amerca's into a decline, are the same who thought credit default swaps, and sub prime mortgages could be made risk free because they had computer models who told them so

No it will be a fast crash, and just like dot.com bubble housing bubble, and he debt bubble in Europe ... In hind sight the same elites will be.. "Well it looks like it was obvious, but really no one saw it coming."

Chip S. said...

a system based solely on the priorities of private enterprise is a pretty vulnerable one...There is no overall planning for the greater good in such a system

In that case, we disagree on the larger point.

Why is FL's law a good idea? Only b/c the expectation of government imposing price controls after a storm is so clearly rational. The FL government can't make a credible commitment not to do this, so it has to compel retailers to invest in generators.

Nobody's arguing against having the gov't handle "first response", or helping manage a large-scale evacuation. But there are ways besides price controls that gov't intervention makes things worse by blunting people's incentives.

wyo sis said...

Inga you are my evil twin.

wyo sis said...

I can engage with ARM (and if you'll check I have been) and tease you at the same time. I'm cool like that.

n.n said...

wyo sis:

My experience is living in the Soviet Union. It is possible to live in that environment; but, it is less than optimal for preserving individual dignity. There are better compromises that a society can make in order to accommodate several hundred million people and their diverse needs and desires.

Still, the tactics employed by the American left to preserve and gain power can only be described as "progressive". In many ways, they are worse for the causes of preserving individual dignity and the valuation of human life. They manufacture and exploit prejudice. They appeal to women and men's base nature. They promise instant gratification without perceived consequences, which is not only an unrealistic notion, but is also a sponsor of corruption.

The strategy followed by the contemporary left is arguably worse for the welfare of individuals, society, and humanity. They accomplish covertly what was and is done overtly by their counterparts around the world. This makes recognition of the consequences and a frontal confrontation more challenging. They have played semantic games and exploited a selective history, science, and reality to great acclaim.

large entities with lots of regulation are much less capable of being nimble

Exactly. Centralization has its value, including increased leverage and efficiency; but, distributed systems are more robust, responsive, and, in a human system, by virtue of proximity, enable greater accountability (i.e. mitigation of corruption).

Chip S. said...

Inga said...
My pleasure Chip.

You promised to ignore me, remember?

It was only a few minutes ago.

Inga said...

Yeah I did see that Wyo, you are a good multitasker.

MartyH said...

ARM-

Do you buy the extended service contracts on your electronics products? Because, as Chip outlined above, the economics of having an extended warranty make as much sense as the economics of having a generator at a gas station in Jersey.

Inga said...

I changed my mind Chip.

Eric said...

McCain is a hothead and would most likely have been a pretty bad president.

We agree on that, at least. Heh - so did a lot of other people.

Chip S. said...

How can you change something you lost some time ago?

:)

Inga said...

My mind is a steel trap, don't be fooled.

wyo sis said...

n.n.
It's a mystery to me that people don't learn from history. We have people like you all around us who can tell us exactly how it is to live in socialist/Marxist/totalitarian societies and yet people still want to go there and they accept such insignificant trinkets in exchange for the loss of their freedom. Free contraception, gay "rights", little crude petty indecent things.

Inga said...

My apologies to ARM. I will ignore them for real now.

Chip S. said...

My mind is a steel trap

Sort of like this?

Hooked up by a union plumber, I hope.

Inga said...

Gay rights is a crude petty thing Wyo?

Inga said...

Indecent? By your standards, Wyo.

wyo sis said...

What are gay rights? There are rights that all people have. There are no special rights for gay. Every silly special interest is running around trying to get exceptions and special treatment based on some imaginary separate "right." I call bullshit.

Inga said...

Ask Palladian if he feels his rights because he is a gay person are crude, petty or indecent.

Inga said...

They are human rights Wyo.

wyo sis said...

It's indecent to demand that people pay for your birth control. It's indecent to dress up like a vigina and march around where children can see. It's indecent to demand to be allowed into a women's dressing room because you as a man think you're a woman and then drape your genitals all over the furniture. It's indecent to have sex in a gay pride parade. It's indecent to shit on police cars.

But don't let that get you too worked up because---magic underwear!

Inga said...

Wyo Sis, I agree those pink labia costumes are indecent, ew. And it's just plain rude to drape ones penis on the furniture! Do gays shit on police cars?!


Damn, I scared my cat laughing.

wyo sis said...

Oh, Is this only about gays? I thought it was about what is indecent that people sell their freedoms for.

wyo sis said...

Nice to be able to laugh while decency rots. It makes the medicine go down I hear.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Darleen said...

Inge

Why the whinging over abortion? It, like the Romney is going to ban tampons, thing was a ginned up controversy by Dems & their IndustrialMedia clients.

Was there abortion RESTRICTION legislation in some localities? Sure, and last I looked RvW allows for restrictions on abortion. Including the pesky 10th amendment.

I am so ashamed at how many people of my sex have been bought by this appeal to their "ladyparts".

How's it feel, kitten, that the swollen vulvas of Code Pink and the "voting for Obama was like great sex" commercial fulfills every sexist stereotype of frivolous females?

Inga said...

Sorry..... :)

Inga said...

Darleen, ginned up? Hardly. What about Personhood bills? How do you think that might affect abortion?

wyo sis said...

I have to admit I snickered a bit myself. Sincerely held beliefs expressed with passion do sound funny when spouted by non-professionals. I wish I could inspire the kind of serious taking the pink vaginas do.

Inga said...

Those damn code pink whores with their gogantic swollen lady vulva costumes. Now I'm laughing again, my cat thinks I've lost my mind.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Oh shit , now I'm laughing so hard I can't type at all.

Inga said...

I've got my pink Jammie's on, going to bed now. Night ladies .

wyo sis said...

I'm cool like that.

Darleen said...

Inga

Yeah, ginned up because no President can do a thing to change Roe v Wade

and the dishonest Leftists know that.

Even their wholly-owned-subsidiary, gender-feminists, know that too.

That got a whole bunch of silly female twits all a flutter about their twats AND dangled "free" birth control to stampede them.

The radical extremist was the Dem platform plank demanding taxpayer provided abortions on demand at any stage for any reason.

Eric said...

Those damn code pink whores with their gogantic swollen lady vulva costumes. Now I'm laughing again, my cat thinks I've lost my mind.

Your cat might be the more perceptive of the two of you.

wyo sis said...

Burn Notice almost over. I'm out as well.

Inga said...

Good grief Darlene, have you heard of signing bills into laws? How about the aging Supreme Court Justices?

Sammy said...

Clinton is just now being resurrected to help democrats. What democrats do after every Presidency is try to make it what
isn't wasn't ... Like they did with Camelot..bullshit , and because they control academia and the media , they can!

Clinton in both elections never got more the 43% of the popular vote...
He tried get back into the White House in 2008 and the democrat party slapped him down, embarrassing , to the point they called him a racist and to be allowed to stay in with the power players he had to campaign like he was running for re election, in 2008 and 2012 who visits over a 300 campaign stops just to help a guy who beat you and your wife .

He was impeached ... He will be known in the history books that aren't written by liberals , for getting head from a intern in the Oval Office and getting caught and using a cigar as dido .

The only reason he was seen as successful while leaving office, the dot.com bubble crash 4 months later and none of his liberal agenda became law except his reinstating the Community Reinvestment Act that lead to subprime debt and his opening quazi government institutions Freddie And Franny from taking on a couple hundred million dollars worth of mortgages to a couple trillion..distorting the mortgage market and giving investors a false sense of security with all the junk mortgages those instructions securitized and would only to be shown years later as major mistakes, that the media doesn't talk about.

wyo sis said...

Last words tonight.
Indecencies.
Not worth losing your soul.
What the Hell? Now Michael Weston's really done it. Should be a great season.

Darleen said...

Inga

Please, dear, get real. Even at its very remote possibility that RvW could be overturned it would not outlaw abortion. It would merely kick it back to the states where it should have remained in the first place.

Again, the radical extremists are the pro-abort Leftists.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga said...

Darleen, here is an interesting comment from Althouse, responding to a commenter on different thread from earlier today, well yesterday actually.

""I don't buy the reality of the existence of the "social issues" you keep peddling, Althouse. Most of it, i.e., the feminist and gay stuff, is just fabrication from martyrdom propaganda movies."

Ann Althouse said,
If you don't "buy" that women have the right to make the decision about whether to go through pregnancy and childbirth rather than to be barred by the government from having a medical procedure and if you don't buy that gay people are equal citizens entitled to access to the opportunities and legal status that other people have, then don't buy it. But I think those things are fundamental, and your assertion that they don't even exist as real issues is alienating to me. If that's what the GOP wants to be, it can be that, but I wonder why I should offer them any support. I voted for their candidate, but only because I thought the economic issues were dominant. If that's what the GOP is, I need to make it very clear to anybody reading this, that I am not a member of that party.

11/8/12 9:51 AM

n.n said...

As for Drum's comment.

First, it is important to distinguish between contributory (e.g. Social Security, Medicare, UI) and non-contributory (e.g. welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, housing subsidies) entitlements. The first can potentially be realized without progressive corruption as individuals participating have a vested interest in controlling waste, fraud, and abuse, and ensuring its continued solvency. The second should focus on rehabilitation and remove incentives from its continued exploitation by the service provider and consumer alike.

Social Security can be ensured to remain solvent if we control inflation. This is why operating without a deficit is so critical. The government cannot print or borrow money without causing inflation. It must either tax its citizens or reduce its expenditures. The out-of-sight and out-of-mind policies which shift environmental and human impacts to China will not forever compensate for the extraordinary fiscal irresponsibility of our government.

Medicare, Medicaid, etc. cannot remain solvent. We need to address the causes of high cost of medical service provision and pharmaceuticals. So-called "Obamacare" only serves to obscure the causes by increasing expenditures and reducing quality and availability of service. It, like so many other "well-intentioned" efforts, is designed to treat symptoms, while ignoring causes. It is unsustainable and a failed policy by design.

Second, we need to end our dependence on foreign energy sourced from hostile interests. We need to acknowledge that our interests in those regions serve other purpose than our own. The oil from the Middle East serves mainly to fuel Europe, China, Japan, etc. The so-called "green" technologies, including solar panels and windmills, are neither renewable nor environmentally friendly and, worse, have limited utility in real-world operation (they cannot be reasonably isolated from the environment). They rely on finitely accessible materials in their operation, which are recovered and processed at great cost to the environment and people. They are low-density energy producers which cannot be legitimately considered as primary producers. We need to confront our irrational fear of nuclear processes. There is more than one technology which exploits this energy source and we cannot afford to ignore its development. We need to be rational about energy sources and applications.

Third, we need to control immigration and especially unmeasured (i.e. illegal) immigration. Both serve to displace Americans at work, school, social services, etc. The latter, however, serves to corrupt the system. It is especially subversive to Americans with similar qualities as the invaders; people with low knowledge and low skill. Sanctioning the latter also serves to protect the nations where corruption motivates the emigration of millions of people annually.

We need to stop treating symptoms and address causes. While the former is perpetually profitable (i.e. politically, economically, and socially), it has also been responsible for sustaining and progressing corruption of individuals and society.

Alex said...

Wow 90% of comments since election day are by the leftist trolls.

Ann - just shut off comments.

exiledonmainst said...

Well, let's see, Inga, Boeing laid off 3000 employees the day after the election and closed its' California operations. Yesterday a Vegas business owner laid off 22 mainly Hispanic employees directly as a result of the election. The Dow has dropped how many points in the last couple of days?

That's all very humorous, I know. The media now reports (now!) that a major recession is on the horizon. Laugh about that too, Inga. Actually, I think you will. You have certainly shown you care nothing at all about the suffering of others. When your own pocketbook and investments take a big hit, you might begin to feel a little differently.

We will all suffer as a result of this election. But the lefties don't know it yet. I will take a grim pleasure in watching them as everything Paul Ryan warned about comes to pass.

edutcher said...

AnUnreasonableTroll said...

Look, I largely agree with many of the complaints about the inefficiency of government but I sometimes wonder whether the people making these complaints have ever worked for a large corporation. Large corporations can make government look good. Extravagant spending, short-sighted policies, endless politicking, large inefficient bureaucracies, big business has them all in spades.

As opposed to government.

In the immortal words of Dr Raymond Stantz, "I've worked in the private sector. they demand results".

My last 2 jobs were 4 years with the IRS and 11 with a large insurance company.

Guess which ran more efficiently?

campy said...

Why shouldn't lefties exult in their total victory? They've slain "the Beast" for all time. In 2016 the Philly technique will be used nationwide. No more repub poll watchers anywhere!

There will never, never, ever be another GOP prez or senate majority.

damikesc said...

What pisses off liberals is that when Bush was running up the deficit almost no one on the right, with only one clear cut exception, Bruce Bartlett, was willing to call foul.

Provided one ignores the conservative group Porkbusters who complained ad infinitum about it.

...but Obama has spent magnitudes more than Bush ever did. The problem is far worse.

The idiots running the gas stations failed to install generators.

No doubt increased costs from increased regulations played no part.

The refineries failed to protect their plant against a well predicted storm surge.

What could they have done that wouldn't have required billions and years of environmental impact studies?

jr565 said...

As an example of dems refusing to hold their candidates accountable lets look at Jessy Jackson jr. He won reelection despite being at they mayo clinic and not actually in congres because he's dealing with bipolar issues. Oh and being investigated by the FBI for campaign/ethics violations.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 242   Newer› Newest»