November 8, 2012

"Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?"

Megyn Kelly asked Karl Rove — as hilariously/painfully magnified by Jon Stewart:

[VIEW CLIP HERE.]

As the tags below indicate, there's some other material in that clip too. If you're one of those who find this painful rather than hilarious, I would recommend that you seriously contemplate the meaning underlying the humor. It's important.

76 comments:

Chuck said...

Does anybody remember, that in the 2000 election, when networks all over began to call Florida for Gore, it was Karl Rove who got on the phone and said that they better not do that; that Florida was too close to call?

Yeah, I get it; Jon Stewart and Colbert and NPR and the New York Times all loathe Karl Rove. I understand it; I don't propose to change the way that they feel about that. But recall that Rove wasn't falsely insisting that Romney had won. Rove was suggesting, as he rightly did in 2000, that the network ought to be careful about calling the race too soon.

I never understood why people thought Jon Stewart was so funny. The Daily show was much funnier when Craig Kilborn was the host. Stewart must be the most overrated comedian in American history. At least there is no doubt about where his political loyalties lie.

AprilApple said...

This mirrors my opinion of Jon Stewart.

Jack said...

Ann,
I used to believe you hilarious lie about being a moderate, but it was a hard lie to fall for after 25 consecutive appearances at Bloggingheads endorsing Rush Limbaugh, and your constant, unremitting advocacy for the GOP and tea party. No one who revels in the hate speech of a drug addicted sex tourist like Rush Limbaugh can claim to be anything but a far right nut.

Nevertheless, I thought I'd come by to say "I sure as fuck am glad your project for the last four years failed."

Remember when you and Meade used to scream about how you were going to read Alinsky and use all its lessons to destroy Obama? Hahahahahaha.

You lost!

Palladian said...

Who would've thought you could become rich by smirking at yourself as a career.

Palladian said...

You lost!

There's that good old American spirit, showing itself again!

Jay Retread said...

That clip is wonderful.

Can we all now just accept that we progressives are smarter, more humorous and better looking than you conservative hillbillies?

Facts are facts.

EMD said...

No one who revels in the hate speech of a drug addicted sex tourist like Rush Limbaugh can claim to be anything but a far right nut.

Jack has never listened to Rush Limbaugh for any extended period of time.

EMD said...

Can we all now just accept that we progressives are smarter, more humorous and better looking than you conservative hillbillies?

Megyn Kelly is hot.

Bob Ellison said...

I find it painful, because I think Bill O'Reilly and Sarah Palin were mostly correct. Stewart is loving the comedy; that's what he keeps saying he does for a living (not report news).

Isn't it possible that the swathe of greedy takers has overcome the makers in this society? It has happened all over Europe, and it's the common cause of strife in Latin America and elsewhere.

Jon Stewart is the one lying to himself. This is not good. It won't turn out well. Just because the people said so don't make it good. History shows that over and over again.

Shouting Thomas said...

It's Rove's job to do that.

Easy to make fun of somebody when they're doing their job and losing. Being in that position is a painful reality of making your living in the public spotlight.

Rove isn't really running campaigns any more, is he? No, he's a public entertainer, hired by Fox to tell one side of the story.

He does a pretty good job of that. Perservering through a loss, continuing to be a trooper, and going on with the show is part of his job.

He isn't in office. He's not lying about public policy. Give him a break.

Lyssa said...

If you're one of those who find this painful rather than hilarious, I would recommend that you seriously contemplate the meaning underlying the humor.

I've not watched the video, but I'm guessing that I would find it painful. Not because I don't get the humor; I certainly do. It's funny because it's true. It's painful because it's true.

Conservatives suffered from some major confirmation bias in this election. I don't know how much it hurt us, ultimately, but it was painful and demoralizing and made us look foolish. That's painful.

Palladian said...

Can we all now just accept that we progressives are smarter, more humorous and better looking than you conservative hillbillies

Lol. Let's see your picture!

rhhardin said...

I don't follow what Stewart is saying, unless it's pap for his own audience.

Rove isn't taking into account that the gurus might have already taken his thought into account. The idea itself isn't wrong, just the assumption about the gurus not having incorporated it.

jr565 said...

Chuck wrote:
Does anybody remember, that in the 2000 election, when networks all over began to call Florida for Gore, it was Karl Rove who got on the phone and said that they better not do that; that Florida was too close to call?

EXACTLY! and Al Gore actually had to take back his concession. That could have lost him the election.
He was saying, based on the numbers yet to be counted, and the precincts that hadn't come in leaning republican, it was too early to call.

By the way, why is that a LIE? He may be wrong, but its not a lie. You can't not know the outcome of something and be lying about it. He may be grasping at straws or fooling himself or looking at out dated numbers, but that isn't a lie.
And the question "is this just a math you do as a republican or is this real" may come across snarky, but it was very possible that Karl Rove's math was in fact right. All he was saying is, based on what he's tracking he thinks that calling it them was too soon.

Jay Retread said...

Look at the crowds that Romney and Obama spoke to on election night. Romney had a sea of white people in front of him. Obama had a much larger crowd that had every skin tone imaginable.

The Obama crowd was better looking, it represented America.

Bob Ellison said...

Jay Retread, does the appearance of the crowd make it right?

Hagar said...

Rove stepped in it, but understandably so. What is not heard in this Jon Stewart clip is that Fox News called Ohio for Obama at a a time when the numbers on the screen showed Romney just 900 odd votes behind and gaining. Rove at the news desk did not have the information the gurus in the situation room had, and protested, and he still thought that it had been a bad moment to make the announcement after the numbers in the situation room had been to explained to him.

I think that is an entirely reasonable position. There should at least have been a bit of transitional explanation given before making the call.
This was a Fox News Corp. technical srew-up, not Karl Rove.

garage mahal said...

There was a certain commenter here that kept asking conservatives why they were so convinced Romney was going to win. Smart guy, him.

Shouting Thomas said...

Look at the crowds that Romney and Obama spoke to on election night. Romney had a sea of white people in front of him. Obama had a much larger crowd that had every skin tone imaginable.

See? Those terrible, racist white people shouldn't even both seeking representation for their economic and political selfe-interest.

They're a bunch of racists! Probably just start up the Klan again, if given the chance.

rcommal said...

When I click the video, all I get is a "content unavailable" notice accompanied by some brief, annoying, unrelated audio.

AprilApple said...

It's hilarious to watch economic illiterates ruin a once great nation.

The Farmer said...

This moronic, completely-lacking-in-evidence idea that Romney lost because most of the country wants free stuff is not going to help the GOP. This is a really, really dumb approach.

rcommal said...

Even without being able to watch the video, though, I can say that I do think Lyssa is correct about the confirmation bias issue. I'm not pained because I just couldn't see how the numbers were going to work out for Romney to win (something I stated at least a couple of times here), though I was surprised that it wasn't close.

Palladian said...

When I click the video, all I get is a "content unavailable" notice accompanied by some brief, annoying, unrelated audio.

I'm sure the video involved Jon Stewart smirking at himself and yelling, and his audience hooting at him.

Jay Retread said...

With each passing of four years the southern strategy will make the Republicans more irrelevant. Put at this point the party can't modernize itself. So, keep being snookered by the Slimebaughs and Palins, it is your party and you can cry if you want to.

Palladian said...

Guaranteed that Retread is a fat white guy.

Palladian said...

I mean, look at all the wonderful progressive diversity in this thread! Every possible shade of pink!

Marshal said...

The Farmer said...
This moronic, completely-lacking-in-evidence idea that Romney lost because most of the country wants free stuff is not going to help the GOP. This is a really, really dumb approach.


Completely lacking in evidence, if only you ignore the entire history of the Democratic Party and it's campaigns.

Bob Ellison said...

The Farmer said "This moronic, completely-lacking-in-evidence idea that Romney lost because most of the country wants free stuff is not going to help the GOP."

The idea is smart, and the evidence is ample. Obama ran a class-warfare campaign with the worst record as POTUS since Carter, and won. He ran on free contraceptives, free abortion, food stamps, welfare, fantastically extended unemployment benefits, etc. Romney ran on growth and reform. Obama won.

I don't see how you can conclude that it wasn't a "free stuff" election. That's what Obama's voters want. They'll get it for a while.

X said...

republicans sure are stupid for thinking they would win, unlike democrats who think the economy is recovering and that tax hikes, massive regulation, and obamacare layoffs will really get it going. we'll see.

of course it's funny. so was maddow during the recall returns and 2010.

Lem said...

"you lost"...

We still owe 16 trillion... losing it, is not an indemnity.

bagoh20 said...

I don't find much to laugh about:

Stupidity won
Negativity won
Lies won
Obfuscation won
Taxation won
More layoffs won
More jobs moving offshore won
Cronism won
Bad Journalism won
Dependence won
Stagnation won
Recession won
Trivia won
Jon Stewart won
Obama won,

But you/we lost

But hey you are smart and good looking and funny, so it's cool.

Maybe free birth control isn't such a bad idea after all.

Lem said...

Other than Obamas race, take his race of the table, when I've asked Obama supporters why they like him... they cite... for lack of a more politically correct, protective feelings version...

Free Stuff.

Lyssa said...

rcommal said I'm not pained because I just couldn't see how the numbers were going to work out for Romney to win (something I stated at least a couple of times here), though I was surprised that it wasn't close.

I thought the same - I never stopped predicting an Obama win, though I thought that it would at least be closer. (I'll admit that the sureness of my ideological brethren, both here and elsewhere, was encouraging me to insert a lot of "I could be wrongs" in there, though.)

I still hate that so many people who represent the same side as me were so wrong, though.

Lem said...

This is a really, really dumb approach.

Regardless of the reason they voted for Obama... trying to impress upon people the unsustainability (probably no such word) of more free stuff is for its own sake not really that dumb.

I say strike while they maybe paying attention.

Bill said...

Jon Stewart is painfully funny. His schtick is old and thin but most of the time it still works and I often find myself laughing even as I'm talking back to the tv at how unfair and dishonest he is. And he is deeply unfair and dishonest. Just because he does the occasional segment mocking Obama or some other democrat doesn't make him bipartisan or balanced. He wants to be taken seriously when he wants to be taken seriously but when he gets called out on his tactics or mistaken facts he retreats to his "I'm just an entertainer" excuse.

He is one of the most formidable enemies of the right precisely because he is so maddeningly deceptive. It's ironic that he's poking fun at the supposed 'confirmation bias' of the right when his entire show is built around confirmation bias for the left, who increasingly use him as their source for not just interpretation of current events, but actual information about current events.

roesch/voltaire said...

More often than not, Stewart nails the pols, often the Republicans and Fox, for the BS they spread and seem to believe, and the folks under 30 watch him and now more of them are voting. Look Romney couldn't even face up to David Letterman, let alone reveal his taxes; the young voters noticed these little things that were amplified by Stewart and had nothing to do with wanting free stuff-- the latest meme to cover-up defeat.

Lem said...

The approach of a bank after the insanity of doing the same thing while expecting a different result is to foreclose.

Its like rh was saying yesterday.
Something about the math..

Romney and his people were confident that the 16 trillion math spoke for itself... so they inadvertently or whatever, fudged/bungled the election math.

Obama and his supporters are all about the election math... they beat Romney there.

jr565 said...

Garage mahal wrote:

There was a certain commenter here that kept asking conservatives why they were so convinced Romney was going to win. Smart guy, him.

oh, ye of little memory. Lets not forget that back durning The Kerry -Bush election fight, the Kerry team,looking at its exit polling thought that Kerry was going to trounce Bush. So much so that bob shrum turned to Kerry and said "May I be the first to call you Mr. President."
In other words, campaign internals are often full of crap and the exit polls don't always show the real story. Why was bob shrum so convinced that Kerry was going to win. At the time, Bush wasn't very popular, especially amongst democrats. Did democrats really thin that Kerry was going to win? Many certainly said so.

This is the real reason that I think Obama won. Incumbency. It's tough beating the incumbent. It's happened ten times or so during presidential elections. Repubs assumed that the worst economy stewardship in modern times wold overcome that, but it didn't beat the advantage of incumbency.
On the positive note though, Obama will not be running again. The next presidential candidates of both parties will be running against Obama's economy, not Bush's.

bagoh20 said...

What's painful is watching yourself being proven right by people getting laid off, getting poorer, and watching people learn painful lessons very slowly while being powerless to do anything about it. Having this happen to the people you care about is no pleasure. That future is what has conservatives depressed about what happened this week.

The politics is over. What we will have now is the consequences.

Lem said...

This is a really, really dumb approach.

Like we need to have a reaffirmation... to have a soul search... refocus the vision thing.

Tell us you were wrong... its like a fight between spouses.

A job needs to get done... Obama didnt do it... he made it worst... the voters disagreeing does mean the job is done.

EMD said...

Other than Obamas race, take his race of the table, when I've asked Obama supporters why they like him... they cite... for lack of a more politically correct, protective feelings version...

If Obama were really Jimmy Carter, Hillary Clinton would have been the 44th president and Mitt Romney most likely the 45th, all other things considered.

Lem said...

the voters disagreeing does mean the job is done.

I meant to say it does not mean the job is done... but thats for another day.

Its recrimination purgatory time.

Lem said...

If Obama were really Jimmy Carter, Hillary Clinton would have been the 44th president and Mitt Romney most likely the 45th, all other things considered.

I thought that Nate Silver was wrong... forgive me if I say I have no confidence in what you just said.

Let me get my bearings first.

machine said...

"Megyn Kelly is hot."

True that...

EMD said...

I thought that Nate Silver was wrong... forgive me if I say I have no confidence in what you just said.

Let me get my bearings first.


I'm just being a racist, Lem.

EMD said...

"Megyn Kelly is hot."

True that...


Common ground!

machine said...

Rove reminded me of the Duke Brothers at the end of Trading Places...

"Turn those machines back on!"

Paul Zrimsek said...

Being given credit for the invention of something as big and popular as wishful thinking is sort of flattering, if you take it in the right spirit. Though I can't seem to avoid the suspicion that it existed even before we supposedly came up with it.

Chip Ahoy said...

Oh Jack. Jack. Jack. I just now read your colossally cuntish comment. Do you have any kids, Jack? Any nephews or nieces? Do they possess the slave/serf-mentality mean-spirit that you possess? Jack, your resolute retardation just cost you 20 trillion dollars. Feel like celebrating? I don't.

Proper retards can be reached and taught, they're perfectly lovely people, resolute retards like yourself cannot even be spoken to.

You are a serf. You have the serf-mentality. Now get to serf'n, Bitch. And start paying down 20 trillion dollars, stupid.

Alex said...

Interesting that the left sees this election as "we won, you lost" type of mentality. As though they "own" the country now, whatever that means.

Chuck said...

The attacks on Fox News are some of the most vitriolic of the season.

And it is the usual suspects, engaged in the harshest attacks, even to the point of completely abandoning their own "news" status. So NPR, MSNBC, Salon and the others have really just about lost it, over Fox News.

This proves something; that Fox News is percieved as a big deal, a major target; a serious threat.

Which means that we need a lot more Fox News, and many more like Fox News.

This ain't beanbag. Think of how fast 2012 got here, after 2008. 2014, and then 2016, will be here soon enough.

Mian said...

Bagoh20 said: The politics is over. What we will have now is the consequences.

Amen to that, brother.

Also, I think Rove did the right thing; not sure why the Fox "Decision Desk" was so quick to be the first to pronounce Obama the once-and-future King.

The vote totals -- even in the end -- were not that decisive and they could've been wrong (not like this never happened before at Fox -- Rove knew this.)

Chip Ahoy said...

I suddenly realized why some people mistreat their help. I never could understand that. Why were people ever rude to their service people? But now I get it. This last election when I saw the great-grand kids of actual slaves, now adults, celebrating the great victory of taking up the slavery of impossible debt, intergenerational servitude, and my heart sank, for them and stayed sunken, smashed and sunken at at the spectacle of gleeful voluntary serfdom, I realize now how it can be. Now I understand why that disrespect occurs. Now I know. You showed me. You have slave-mentality. It's probably genetic. My whole family probably has it. Maybe even me. Maybe it's why I always thought they're stupid.

I used to pray, Lord why did you put me in this misfit family? And now I pray, why was I put on this retarded planet? I think my answer is so I can see slave-mentality and understand utter non creativity. This election is clearing up so much. Over half of you want twenty TRILLION dollars national debt. That's what you voted for. God put me here with you retards to show me your abject slave-mentality.

God, did I get that right?

* drums fingers *

goddaminit.

Oh look a message from tea party patriots, I wonder what they're up to now. I bet it's all about hard work penetrating lower echelons in their continuing effort to beat back the retarded slaves. They don't put it like that, they're nicer than me, but face it, you have to be straight up retarded to put anything at all before twenty trillion dollars in debt. sheesh. goddamnit, don't even talk to me. I'm completly over half of you. And don't look at any of my stuff either, you're too retarded to understand anything properly.

machine said...

Having Rove (who gathered and spent the mot money ever attacking an incumbent President) cover the election for Fox "News" is more evidence that it is not a news organization...more like a propaganda machine.

Andy R. said...

There was a certain commenter here that kept asking conservatives why they were so convinced Romney was going to win. Smart guy, him.

Are you talking about me or yourself?

Andy R. said...

Also, I know that gloating isn't particularly becoming, but I think it's silly to pretend the last year didn't happen where I made a bunch of accurate predictions and a bunch of stupid people called me dumb. I know it's awkward to deal with, but pretending that none of that happened just seems odd.

edutcher said...

I note the graphic behind Stewart says, "America takes a shower".

I wonder when the crash comes if we'll see him in front of "America takes a bath"?

bagoh20 said...

I don't find much to laugh about:

Stupidity won
Negativity won
Lies won
Obfuscation won
Taxation won
More layoffs won
More jobs moving offshore won
Cronism won
Bad Journalism won
Dependence won
Stagnation won
Recession won
Trivia won
Jon Stewart won
Obama won,


You forgot

Murder won

machine said...

Having Rove (who gathered and spent the mot money ever attacking an incumbent President) cover the election for Fox "News" is more evidence that it is not a news organization...more like a propaganda machine.

Oh, you mean like have Steffi anchor the ABC Sunday show?

Rove is there as an analyst the way Trippi and Beckel are, moron.

virgil xenophon said...

AprilApple@ 9:04/9:23

Talk about a 'meeting of the minds"/"music of the spheres" etc. If not for my wife of 39 years I'd propose marriage, lol.

Marshal said...

Andy R. said...
Also, I know that gloating isn't particularly becoming, but I think it's silly to pretend the last year didn't happen where I made a bunch of accurate predictions and a bunch of stupid people called me dumb. I know it's awkward to deal with, but pretending that none of that happened just seems odd.


I called you an asshole, not dumb. It's impossible to assess the intelligence of someone who merely repeats talking points others have prepared. Oh, and writes "bigot" into every sentence - let's not omit that valuable contribution. But apparently being an asshole doesn't bother you since you're still here proving yourself one.

Donald said...

Lyssa is right that it's about confirmation bias. But it's more than just that. It's about the danger of living in the echo chamber. Many people were shocked by Obama's win because they exposed themselves (only and extensively) to new sources that insisted the "mainstream media" polls were biased. (The explanation for bias ranged from conspiracy theory to incompetence.)

If all you read is Drudge and all you watch is Fox, you get a warped sense of reality. The same is true if all you read is Daily Kos and all you watch is MSNBC.

Stewart isn't just talking about people being prone to believe in facts that fit their opinion; he's also referencing the problem that people are getting their "news" exclusively from outlets that insist that the facts fit viewers' and readers' opinions.

Chuck said...

machine said...
"Having Rove (who gathered and spent the mot money ever attacking an incumbent President) cover the election for Fox "News" is more evidence that it is not a news organization...more like a propaganda machine."

What an ignorant, stupid comment. Karl Rove is not a reporter, and he does not "cover" anything. Rove is a commentator.
You'd never have worried, if James Carville had been doing commentary for NBC, or Donna Brazille had been doing commentary for ABC, or Bob Schrum had been doing commentary for CBS.

All of those people, incidentally, have served each of those respective networks.

Liberals seek only to single out Fox.

You are such dumbass hypocrites.

machine said...

Steffi? Trippi and Beckel? the same as Rove?

Rove built a coalition of huge donors this cycle for the sole purpose of defeating the President....and then shite his pants on live TV when he realized his promises were comping up short.

The only thing anyone gives Beckel is another drink.

Get out of the bubble....

machine said...

Rove is not just a "commentator" like the others cited...though he probably might be next time...

phx said...

It's Rove's job to do that.

Easy to make fun of somebody when they're doing their job and losing. Being in that position is a painful reality of making your living in the public spotlight.


I basically agree with this and I don't have any personal animus toward Rove. But Stewart's doing his job, too, and that is to make fun of guys like Rove.

I understand the sympathy toward Rove though.

Dave said...

Post election reporting has revealed the extent to which the Obama campaign focused on identifying potential new voters particularly in critical swing states. The operation in Chicago utilized the 2010 census, behavioral scientists, "thousands" of daily telephone calls measuring responses, etc. The resulting voter turnout blind-sided the Romney team on election day.

In 2008 it was social media, small individual contributions, etc. This time they maintained their lead in those areas and expanded by reinventing the "ground" game using 21st Century techniques.

Bottom line - the better run campaign won.

Alex said...

Dave - if this country's future comes down to who can run a better political campaign then we're fucked. We need more virtuous people.

Chuck said...

machine said...
"Rove is not just a 'commentator' like the others cited...though he probably might be next time..."

Other than being a commentator, as a well as a paid political advisor, tell me how Rove functionally differs from Donna Brazille, James Carville or Hillary Rosen.

I'd be the first to admit that compared to karl Rove, the others are small-timers. Karl Rove is not doubt bigger, and badder, and scarier to the left than the Democrat pundits are to the right. All of that is good as far as I am conerned. But really; where is the basic qualitative difference between any of them?

machine said...

"The Republican strategist created the model for outside money groups that raised and spent more than $1 billion on the Nov. 6 elections -- many of which saw almost no return for their money."

Rove's American Crossroads PAC spent heavily, not just on Romney, but on attack ads on behalf of GOP Senate candidates in eight states -- thanks to mega contributions from conservative donors like metals magnate Harold Simmons ($19.5 million), Texas homebuilder Bob Perry ($7.5 million) and Omni hotel chief Robert Rowling ($5 million.)

Ours drink and talk shite...

wyo sis said...

I just figured out that phx isn't pronounced pix or fix or putz.

Peter Hoh said...

Lyssa: Conservatives suffered from some major confirmation bias in this election. I don't know how much it hurt us, ultimately, but it was painful and demoralizing and made us look foolish.

If you want a good critique of the confirmation bias without the smarmy satire of Mr. Stewart, I suggest Conor Friedersdorf's post, How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File.

Rusty said...

I thought it was short for 'fish'.

wyo sis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wyo sis said...

Rusty
Yes! That's it.

RUCB_Alum said...

Any of you Pro-GOP'ers care to walk back any of this in light of Romney's scatter-brained explanation for his loss? How about the RNC analysis of the loss?
You guys COULD have won with 400K more votes in the right places.
I, for one, am very, very glad that you did not.

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