November 16, 2012

"I find it difficult to believe that Lincoln was banging anybody."

Tony Kushner explains why his "Lincoln" screenplay doesn't include any material about his possible nonheterosexuality. Moreover:
"I absolutely believe that the Lincoln’s marriage was a real marriage. These two people loved each other.... It wouldn’t be the first time that a gay man and a straight woman hooked up and had a great marriage. But I don’t know. I really don’t know. And I think that’s what we have to say about it. We keep the door open and people should talk about it. I don’t feel, finally, that my politics are entirely determined by the fact that I’m a gay man."
I love the subtle dig implicit in the word "entirely."

76 comments:

TMink said...

Isn't it a bit cliched to claim that every interesting person from history was "possibly" gay?

Yawn.

Trey

TMink said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mccullough said...

Almost entirely. Angels in America had some great moments, but it was too political. Kushner's work is pretty forgettable.

Amartel said...

"I don’t feel, finally, that my politics are entirely determined by the fact that I’m a gay man."

So he's not entirely a single issue voter? Finally?

DADvocate said...

Nothing I've seen in the trailers for this movie makes me want to see it. Either is sucks or the PR people suck.

Rabel said...

Somewhat off topic, but per the White House website, President Obama attended the Presidential Daily Brief Tuesday and Wednesday but skipped yesterday and today.

Nothing he needed to know about happening right now except that little war about to kick-off in Gaza. He did have time to meet with the stars of the Lincoln movie last night.

Geoff Matthews said...

Didn't JM Keynes have a happy marriage with Lopokova?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keynes#Personal_life

Of course, the evidence of Keynes's homosexuality is there, while Lincoln's is not.

SteveR said...

Does it matter? Not to me.

CWJ said...

TMink beat me to it. So which month will be Gay History month?

Coketown said...

Why "keep the door open"? He wasn't gay. Keeping the possibility open and talking about it forever won't change historical fact. It's a tremendous waste of intellectual energy that would be better spent trying to figure out whether Lewis Carrol was a pedophile.

McTriumph said...

Lincoln had to be gay, in the 1800s with all the insulation and central heating used in their modern construction, and cheap energy something gay had to be going on. WTF pathetic

McTriumph said...

Most the WWII soldiers at the Battle of the Bulge must be gay.

All the German and Russian infantry on the Russian front must be gay.

All mountain climbers must be gay.

I could go on and on. Gay politic

AJ Lynch said...

Reknowned gay writer abandons his herd's mentality and admits that what an historic figure achieved matters way more than his alleged sexuality.

Mitch H. said...

I was about to go off on a rant about how ludicrous it would be to imagine that a man with several legitimate children and no rumors of infidelity by his wife had never "banged" anybody, but then I went to the post and found it somewhat misrepresented.

And yes, all the crap that people use to call Lincoln homosexual is just that, crap. Projected bushwalla and nonsense, no more intellectually defensible than the usual snobbish imbecilities sriving to assign the authorship of the plays of Shakespeare to anyone other than Shakespeare himself.

Mitch H. said...

I was about to go off on a rant about how ludicrous it would be to imagine that a man with several legitimate children and no rumors of infidelity by his wife had never "banged" anybody, but then I went to the post and found it somewhat misrepresented.

And yes, all the crap that people use to call Lincoln homosexual is just that, crap. Projected bushwalla and nonsense, no more intellectually defensible than the usual snobbish imbecilities sriving to assign the authorship of the plays of Shakespeare to anyone other than Shakespeare himself.

SteveR said...

Not that there's anything wrong with that

Eric said...

Isn't it a bit cliched to claim that every interesting person from history was "possibly" gay?

It's amazing the human race has managed to propagate what with everyone in history being gay and all.

Bryan C said...

I bet John Wilkes Booth was gay. Also Jefferson Davis.

Crunchy Frog said...

The only beard Lincoln had was the one on his face.

Ana said...

I love the subtle dig implicit in the word "entirely."

Confusing. A dig against himself?

EMD said...

I did find it a bit odd they cast Adam Lambert as Joshua Speed, though

Victor Erimita said...

Raceclassgenderraceclassgenderraceclassgender. Absolutely everything must be about these topics.

Gayness must not be merely accepted, it must be normative. Everyone is really gay, but just suppressing their gayness, hence their "phobias" about declared gay people. Like the bigoted ex-Marine next door neighbor in "American Beauty," who hates gays but turns out to be...of course...gay!

Casanova, Don Juan, Hugh Hefner and Wilt Chamberlain. All gay. Lincoln shared beds with other men when he was riding circuit, so obviously gay. And most military men slept with other men in foxholes, tents and wherever. Hello-o? Gay!

Let's get Bill Ayers to write the Spielberg screenplay about Washington. We can get Rosie O'Donnell to play Martha. Yeah, Martha was definitely gay. Van Jones can do Frederick Douglas. Morgan Freeman would be the natural choice, but wait! Is he gay?

DADvocate said...

It's amazing the human race has managed to propagate what with everyone in history being gay and all.

Many people think they're straight, get married (or don't), have heterosexual sex (yes, it happens), and have kids. After a certain amount of this, it varies from person to person, they have an awakening and realize they're gay. Despite two wives and four kids, I've yet to have an awakening, but I'm sure, like everyone else in the world, at some point I'll realize I'm gay. Hopefully, I won't act on that realization.

tiger said...

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Kushner knows NOTHING about Lincoln's sex life other than he had it with Mary at least three times.

The desire by abnormal people to claim that famous, normal people are actually deviants is insulting on its face.

tiger said...

Kushner needs famous people to be homosexual in order to bolster his self-esteem.

He's just another self-hating gay with an ax to grind.

EMD said...

Kushner knows NOTHING about Lincoln's sex life other than he had it with Mary at least three times.

Who's Tad's mother?

EMD said...

Van Jones can do Frederick Douglas.

Never.

edutcher said...

Good idea to leave it out, otherwise the only people to see the picture would be the reviewers.

Tim said...

"I don’t feel, finally, that my politics are entirely determined by the fact that I’m a gay man."

Finally, a gay many who's politics aren't entirely determined by the fact he is a gay man.

ricpic said...

Lincoln was a homo,
Jefferson banged his slave,
Yet hint that Rice is not so nice?
That's very very grave.

ricpic said...

"I find it difficult to believe" says a member of the queer Hollywood/Broadway mafia whose life experience has been so...er, peculiar that to classify it as grotesque would be a step up.

Palladian said...

The desire by abnormal people to claim that famous, normal people are actually deviants is insulting on its face.

LOL. I love the idea that there are "normal" people, somewhere!

We're all deviants, you twat.

madAsHell said...

In the future, everyone will be gay for 15 minutes.

Bender said...

I don’t feel, finally, that my politics are entirely determined by the fact that I’m a gay man

Is this an implicit statement that his politics are partially determined by the fact that he's a gay man? So, what, people are now not only "made gay," they are made liberals? Being leftist is now not a choice, not a lifestyle, but something inherent and determined by one's gayness, which in turn is determined by genetics, such that genetics also determines politics and ideology?

You know, for the side of the political divide that spends so much time screaming about "choice," it is curious that so many of them reject the very idea of free choice of the will in their personal lives.

Peter said...

I have it on VERY good authority that Mary Todd Lincoln was one of the first shaved women in America.

Carol said...

Well, I'm relived Kushner didn't push the gay meme.

Does the script happen to mention that Lincoln wanted to send the freed slaves somewhere else?

bob said...

Harry Reid has a friend who told him Lincoln was gay.

Dante said...

Many people think they're straight, get married (or don't), have heterosexual sex (yes, it happens), and have kids. After a certain amount of this, it varies from person to person, they have an awakening and realize they're gay.

Garbage. Men like butts or boobs. It's that simple. There are very, very few truly bi-sexual men, and this idea of a continuity when it comes to men is silly.

Have you ever looked at a guy and thought "Oh, I would like to make out with him?" If not, you aren't gay.

Dante said...

Is this an implicit statement that his politics are partially determined by the fact that he's a gay man?

I think the connotative meaning is that some small part of his politics are determined by things other than being gay, and the majority, nearly the entirety, are determined by his gayness.

The denotative meaning can be anywhere from 1% because he is gay to 99% because he is gay.

the wolf said...

If you compare, it's far more likely that Hitler was gay*, yet you don't see a lot of homosexuals claiming him as one of their own.

*No, I don't think Hitler was gay.

traditionalguy said...

Lincoln was a small town trial lawyer and he worked to win over every juror that he could win over and never threw out any types of persons...he needed jury verdicts from them all. And he never considered losing a case because losing trial lawyers go out of business.

Lincoln's put on openness and sensitivity must seem gay to some. Walt Whitman was certainly won over to his core. But it was just being good at doing his job for his client which was the Abolitionists organized as the new National Republican Party.

McTriumph said...

the wolf said...
If you compare, it's far more likely that Hitler was gay*, yet you don't see a lot of homosexuals claiming him as one of their own.

I think that's just because of the leather trench coat and riding boots, stereotypes are hard to overcome.

bagoh20 said...

Only a straight man would repeatedly bang Mary Todd.

Greg Hlatky said...

Can't wait for Kushner to write the prequel: "Buchanan".

bagoh20 said...

No doubt John Wilkes Booth was a jilted lover. He was in show business after all, and you know about them.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

Gay Lincoln?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Peter said...

Men like butts or boobs.

Um, are you forgetting something?

McTriumph said...

Lincoln was all about liberation, if you get my drift.

Erika said...

I find it difficult to believe that Lincoln was banging anybody

What a vulgar way to talk.

Erika said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
McTriumph said...

John Wilkes Booth was obviously a hipster, you can tell by the photos of him, he was all into that vintage clothing thing.

Ali Karim Bey said...

LINCOLN IS BEING SHOWN AT THE WHITE HOUSE THIS WEEKEND.

DEAL WITH IT.

THERE IS NOTHING - NOT A THING - YOU/GOP CAN DO.

GOP = PARTY OF THE LIVING DEAD

Astro said...

So I guess this is this where the 'Log Cabin Republicans' got their start.

Astro said...

"LINCOLN IS BEING SHOWN AT THE WHITE HOUSE THIS WEEKEND.

DEAL WITH IT."

Pffftt.... who gives a crap.

Astro said...

Funny. Gay Abe Lincoln and Twinkies in the same news cycle.

Michael K said...

The first reviews I've seen describe the movie as obsessed with politics and not the great issues of slavery and secession. I plan to give it a miss. I do like DD Lewis but this sounds like a waste of his time. Last of the Mohicans was a great movie and ignored by the awards, as this one will probably be lavished with them.

I still remember how awful "The Thin Red Line" was and, of course, it was nominated for best picture. I was in the theater with my son and his wife when I noticed people leaving. At first, I thought they were going for drinks or popcorn but they didn't come back. I was sitting there hoping it would be over soon, when I realized half the theater was empty. It was the first weekend.

Michael K said...

"And yes, all the crap that people use to call Lincoln homosexual is just that, crap. Projected bushwalla and nonsense, no more intellectually defensible than the usual snobbish imbecilities sriving to assign the authorship of the plays of Shakespeare to anyone other than Shakespeare himself."

The people, mostly homosexual, making this accusation, are almost completely ignorant of history. Lincoln rode the circuit in Illinois and the lawyers often slept two or three to a bed. Sometimes the judge slept with them. It was totally non-sexual, something impossible for Kushner to understand.

Indigo Red said...

I viewed "Lincoln" at noon today. Excellent. Then I went to the Auburn Drugstore, sat at the marble topped bar, and I drank a milkshake. I drank it up!

Methadras said...

There is zero proof Lincoln was a homosexual. He had a very close relationship with Joshua Speed, but only eluded to him possibly being a more effeminate man. Since in those days, ones honor was associated with his level of masculinity. Was Lincoln a depressed and dower man. You bet, but so were multitudes of other men in that time. Those times did not fare well for men. The revolutionary war killed many of age breeding men. After that recovery period, no less than 100 years later, you have another war that did the same thing. Depressing times indeed. To attribute homosexuality to this president is nefarious and unnecessary by sheer sake of trying to pigeon hole him into the martyr of a closeted homosexual fitting through the peg of a heterosexual milieu. Nonsense.

Palladian said...

You can have Mr Marfan, we'll keep Leonardo da Vinci.

Palladian said...

But can you do us a favor, and take Tony Kushner? Pretty please?

kentuckyliz said...

We hets will keep Lincoln, y'all can have Ryan Seacrest.

tiger said...

Palladian said...
The desire by abnormal people to claim that famous, normal people are actually deviants is insulting on its face.

LOL. I love the idea that there are "normal" people, somewhere!

We're all deviants, you twat


'Twat'? Don't be such an ass.

Homosexuals make up 3% of the popullation ergo it is not 'normal'.

Your desire to try and insult me didn't work.

Palladian said...

Homosexuals make up 3% of the popullation ergo it is not 'normal'.

Romney voters made up less of the population than Obama voters, ergo not liking Obama is not 'normal'.

The twat still stands, as it were.

McTriumph said...

Less than 3%, no way, there is at least 10% maybe 20% gay in the population. That's what I learn in college back in the early 70s. Surely my professors didn't lie to me, I mean their predictions of the ice age, population bomb, peak oil, and impending nuclear war were just bad luck, but only 3% gay?

bagoh20 said...

Progressive and many others too, but especially progressives, have a neurotic need to propose, believe, and sell the idea that whatever is accepted, obvious or uncontroversial must of course be untrue and be replaced with some counter-intuitive reality, just for the hell of it. They usually also believe that your tendency to not buy it shows your lack of intelligence and sophistication. This would have convinced me that I'm an unsophisticated idiot, but, what really flies in the face of that and proves that I'm not an idiot is that I did NOT vote for Obama. Not even once did I fall for that crap.

bagoh20 said...

I'm 3% gay? Which part?

Methadras said...

bagoh20 said...

I'm 3% gay? Which part?


Wait, you already changed your sexual preference right? Or did you change back again?

Maguro said...

I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

bagoh20 said...

Yes, I did go gay, but I intend to stay celibate, so if I have some 3% part that can't control itself, I might wake up married with things a changin and all, and that would defeat the whole purpose of my deeply private and personal decision I only told you few close friends here.

McTriumph said...

I'm a devout lesbian trap in a man's body.

David said...

Get it right. The population is 3.14159% gay.

Assuming a population of 306,000,00 that's a gay count of 9,613,265.4 The .4 is Titus. That's why he overcompensates.

G Joubert said...

I'm betting JFK was gay too.

SJL said...

You'all are too funny

Jim Howard said...

In the 1800s there were not Holiday Inn Express motels at every interstate exit.

Landlords did indeed place two unrelated men in a single bed all the time. It was that, or sleep on the floor.

For example, Ishmael met Queequeg in the shared bed that the inn keeper put them in.

They weren't gay, just tired.

X said...

No, I don't think Hitler was gay.

he was an artist.

he hung around with gays.

he loved meth.

he was a designer.

he blew his brains out about 10 minutes after he married his beard to avoid his wedding night.