October 13, 2012

Joe Biden at the debate reminded me of Steve Carrell in "The Office.

Here's something I wrote yesterday under the heading "How would you have reacted to Joe Biden?"
In real life, [t]here are different reactions, depending on how much of a friendship you have and... sometimes you're in a situation where you must maintain your demeanor, despite the other guy's antagonism. For example, in a job interview or a discussion with your boss or maybe when you were a kid and your father was exerting his authority. The VP debate is also, obviously, one of those situations. Imagine if Ryan had given Biden the finger? Ryan is a young man, he had to have been thinking of the various reactions that you'd use in an ordinary social situation, even as he rejected each one and told himself that he had to keep acting as if Biden were not behaving inappropriately.
A discussion with your boss.... It's like on "The Office." The employees are continually repressing their reaction to the boss — Steve Carrel's character Michael Scott. Example:



The boss is having a grand time, and he thinks he's a great guy, and socially, it's utterly dysfunctional, because he gets no proper feedback, because he's the boss. "The Office" has been so extraordinarily popular, I think, because viewers identify so strongly with the employees. Personally, I have difficulty watching the show. I understand the humor, but the identification with the oppressed employees is so strong that it's painful, and since it's the situation of this situation comedy, the pain is chronic.

Here's another "Office" clip:



Key line: "Have you ever been to Scranton Jan?" Scranton! Scranton is Joe Biden's home town!
"My name is Joe Biden and as strange as it sounds, everything important in my life that I’ve learned here in Scranton, I’m serious.... You are the grit, the sinew and the soul of what freedom is all about, sounds corny, but you really are, you are a special group of people, this is a special place and this soul is thick with pride and loyalty."
Picture Michael Scott pestering his employees with a morale-building speech when they just want to get back to work. Back to work... in Scranton... where unemployment is 10%.

59 comments:

Darrell said...

Funny, Steve Carrell in "The Office" reminds me of Joe Biden.

That's why I don't watch it.

Darrell said...

The best political commentary of debate day was the Ryan/Bidet typo
in some comment I read at a Lefty blog.

Shouting Thomas said...

The odd thing about The Office is that it is a totally PC representation of what is supposed to be oppressive about the office.

No white guy, in my experience, would actually behave the way this boss behaves. White guys have been under attack in the office for decades. They're cowering, hiding and trying to be excessively polite.

You can't show the black, gay or female boss who's making a total ass out of herself on PC TV.

That's a lot more likely to be the reality of what's happening in the contemporary office, since the black, gay or female boss knows he/she can get away with just about anything.

The same thing happens on the TV crime shows, where the criminals are always some hideously awful rich white guy... the least likely candidate to be a criminal.

America's Politico said...

Biden is the best. His laughs are like Gangnam style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLvrQxzfAUA).

PBS News Hour said last night (Brooks, Shields, Woodruff) that Biden cleaned the floor with Ryan.

Rolling Stone said the same via Matt Tiabbi.

Morning Joe said the same via Mika B.

Nate Silver, Gail Collins, etc. from the great NYT predicted Biden's success from the SECOND the debate was over.

SO, GOP is DESTROYED.

I predicted that: BIDEN will DISMEMBER Ryan.

I was right.

NB: Of course, I may be trying to win favors from Stephanie Cutter who follows this blog. I have seen her do this when I pass by her office in WH.

creeley23 said...

I have friends who love "The Office" but I can't watch it either because it is so painful.

As far as I'm concerned, Ryan handled the unpleasant Mr. Biden about as well as he could. It'd have been nice if Ryan had gotten a good retort in but it was too risky. Biden was playing for an overreaction and it was wise for Ryan to avoid the trap.

I'd like to think that Biden paid a price with independents and women greater than the satisfaction he gave to the Dem base but that's not clear yet.

Shouting Thomas said...

White guys can only get away with the macho asshole thing in politics... if they're Democrats.

White guys can't even play out the macho asshole thing in sports. Only the black guys can do that. It's supposed to be entertaining when they do it.

This show, Althouse, plays to your feminist nostalgia for an era that is long gone.

The tables have turned completely, and in that typical Baby Boomer fashion, you've failed to notice it. You're still prosecuting, in small ways, your grievance from 50 years ago.

America's Politico said...

Stephanie Cutter sent this photo at the debate, http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/8078825656/in/photostream/.

AS I MENTIONED, WE in the CORE (COmmittee to Re-Elect) are proud of our POTUS and VPOTUS.

We will destroy State department and Hillary if she or her special assistant (do you remember him? on his email flab), we will bury him.

America's Politico said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sane_voter said...

I thought the best moment of the debate was when Ryan asked Biden what the unemployment rate is in Scranton. And then said it is higher now than when Obama/Biden took office.

It would have been even better if he had let Joe actually answer the question, because I doubt he actually knew, even though he was bobble-heading that he did know.

kentuckyliz said...

Typical lefty tactic: aggressively try to bait you into a reaction, no matter how jerky they have to act to do it; and if you react, then they act all wounded and hurt and throw that back on you. If Ryan reacted, Ol' Joe would have been hurt grandpa.

The way it played with the younger folks, they know well--it's like the older uncle who goes on like an asshole about something, but he's wrong. But the younger person shuts their mouth and doesn't confront it, out of respect for the asshole uncle. It's a waste of breath and energy to try and convince an asshole. Ryan isn't the Jackass Whisperer.

The younger folks think that Ryan keeping his cool, staying calm, not getting baited, sticking to the issues, staying wonky showed much more class.

Which one of these guys do you want one heartbeat away from the presidency?

Biden is clearly Obama's life insurance policy.

America's Politico said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sane_voter said...

And I hate The Office. There has to be some thread of believe-ability in the situation to make comedy work for me, and I never could find that in the show.

vet66 said...

Ryan resisted the urge to stop in the middle of his analysis to confront Biden with "People died" as in the case of Benghazi, "People go to bed at night fearful that a rocket from Gaza will obliterate their family" as is the daily life of an Israeli, "Exactly what in that scenario do you find amusing?

Thinking about it while sipping his water and sizing up the Biden buffoon sitting next to him he rightly surmised that Biden would have fallen back on the Elder Statesman persona. It was a smart move to allow Biden the opportunity to make a fool of himself in front of the world. Never miss an opportunity to let a liar lie.

Excellent job Ryan. Biden proved that the old dinosaurs in the government have outlived whatever usefulness they ever had. Time for new blood and new thinking. The same goes for the old media types sited above who have disgraced journalism with their superficial and self-serving analysis.

vet66 said...

Ryan resisted the urge to stop in the middle of his analysis to confront Biden with "People died" as in the case of Benghazi, "People go to bed at night fearful that a rocket from Gaza will obliterate their family" as is the daily life of an Israeli, "Exactly what in that scenario do you find amusing?

Thinking about it while sipping his water and sizing up the Biden buffoon sitting next to him he rightly surmised that Biden would have fallen back on the Elder Statesman persona. It was a smart move to allow Biden the opportunity to make a fool of himself in front of the world. Never miss an opportunity to let a liar lie.

Excellent job Ryan. Biden proved that the old dinosaurs in the government have outlived whatever usefulness they ever had. Time for new blood and new thinking. The same goes for the old media types sited above who have disgraced journalism with their superficial and self-serving analysis.

sydney said...

The way it played with the younger folks, they know well--it's like the older uncle who goes on like an asshole about something, but he's wrong. But the younger person shuts their mouth and doesn't confront it, out of respect for the asshole uncle.

Ha! I was at a family funeral recently that played out just this way. And I thought about that uncle when I watched Joe Biden in the debate.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, Biden is totally unrepresentative of what goes on in the office.

He's a Democratic politician, which means he can play the macho asshole so long as he directs it against the opposition.

In the same way, Clinton can be a philanderer and constantly embarrass his wife, but he's excused because he's a stalwart advocate for unlimited abortion.

All manner of wildly abusive behavior is justified if you're a Democrat because your opponents are evil "liars" and "bigots."

Nothing is off limits in the war on evil Republicans, Big Oil, Pharma, etc.

Biden's behavior, if attempted by a white Republican man, would have earned him universal condemnation. White Republican men know better than to even attempt it.

sydney said...

It was a smart move to allow Biden the opportunity to make a fool of himself in front of the world. Never miss an opportunity to let a liar lie.

Yes. It seemed to me that everything Biden said was a lie. Real lies. From "unemployment is going down" to the assertion that no one is making Catholics provide free birth control or the assertion that there is no independent advisory board (he called them death panels, Ryan didn't) in Obamacare to restrict Medicare spending. I really lost all respect for the man after that debate.

Roger J. said...

I dont personally think VP debates change many minds--Most Americans I submit are primarily interested in the presidential candidates. It will be very interesting to me about the tactics Mr Obama uses in the next debate. Trying a Biden redux would be a disaster for Obama--but then again, I dont think Mr Obama is all that smart.

TosaGuy said...

I prefer the comparison to Steve Carrell in Anchorman.

Rusty said...

"How would you have reacted to Joe Biden?"

Since I'm pretty much an even better wiseass than him, it would probably wind up outside.


I've never had a problem telling my boss he's a dick when he's acting like a dick.
just one word from me can put him in a bad mood all day.


Yeah. This isn't screen persona. It's how I act with everybody.
I'm charming as hell.

madAsHell said...

At one time, I thought America's Politico was funny. Now, AP is like watching re-runs of The Office.

Shouting Thomas said...

The kids in the video, film and TV biz have learned the odd trick of producing absolutely PC products that pretend to be revelatory and "transgressive." Thus, they earn plaudits for being "courageous," when they are actually being docile and obedient.

I recently watched a mondo bizarro movie, made pre-9/11, titled "Seige."

The plot of this movie is that the Muslims launch a series of terrorist attacks on NYC, and the real problem turns out to be that racist anti-Muslims take over and herd the poor victim Muslims into concentration camps. You've got to see this piece of shit to believe the horrifying slander it levels against average, middle class America.

Of course, 9/11 was far worse that the terrorist attacks portrayed in the movie, and those crazy Americans didn't start murdering Muslims and imprisoning them in the U.S. But Hollywood was sure that that was what would happen!

ricpic said...

I don't know that "oppressed" is exactly the right term for those in a a subservient position. How about suppressed or distressed?

Ann Althouse said...

Are you kidding? America's Politico's post is great! Perfect! BEST COMMENT EVER WRITTEN ON ALTHOUSE!!!!

exiledonmainst said...

This was Ryan's big mistake - when Biden was sitting there giggling while Ryan was trying to make a point, Ryan should have turned to him and asked him what he found entertaining about the Iranians getting nukes. Ryan called Debbie Wasserman-Schultz out for not acting like an adult during an split screen interview on a Sunday morning talk show when she was rolling her eyes and sighing. I kept expecting him to do the same with Biden and he did not. If he had said, "Your behavior is demeaning to your office and disrepectful, not only to me, but to the American people" I think Ryan would have emerged as the clear cut winner.

Ryan should have done that when it became clear that Raddatz was not going to rein Joe in. Not doing so made him look excessively deferential.

Lem said...

I knew there was a reason why I didn't like the show.

Kylos said...

Creeley,"it'd have" is unpronounceable. I think the more pronounceable single contraction is "it would've". If you really want to pronounce it as one word, it should be spelled "it've" or "id've". Though the latter is closest to the actual pronounciation, it is too easily confused with "I'd've". The clearest spelling, "it'd've" is inaccurate, because the 't' and 'd' merge.

Roger J. said...

I do rather enjoy AP's schtick, although he might get more milage if he reduced the number of posts--sometimes less is better.

TWM said...

I like The Office. What I didn't enjoy was the British version, which was 1000 times as uncomfortable with Ricky Gervais.

exiledonmainst said...

"Trying a Biden redux would be a disaster for Obama."

I agree - which is why I'm praying he does that. Obama and the Left generally do not understand the difference between being assertive and being in your face rude. Romney made it clear during the first debate that he does - which is why he was the runaway winner.

ricpic said...

...Biden cleaned the floor with Ryan.

Mopped the floor, AP, you alien freak.

Kylos said...

I think I would prefer "it've". It's the most faithful reproduction of the pronunciation that can't be confused with another phrase. "Would", though elided, is grammatically implied, so it should not trip up a reader.

Joe Schmoe said...

I always thought that Carrell's absurd behavior highlighted the absurdity of life in a modern-day corporate office. Ann, you say the boss character annoys and distracts when the workers really just want to go to work. No, the workers make frequent comments as to the soul-sucking nature that comes with working in a paper distribution company, and what they want more than anything is just to go the hell home.

There's an elaborate set of rules that goes into working in a corporate setting, such as minimal fraternization and work breaks so that the focus is always on work and the collective success of "the company".

Michael Scott, unmarried and alone, wants to turn all of that on its head and make the office and its mates into his family. He's given the latitude to do so because he's a sales savant and his branch always hits its sales numbers.

I think Carrell is brilliant as Michael Scott, and overall the genesis for the absurdity of the show is the very real dysfunction that exists in many corporate offices.

Shouting Thomas said...

Since the topic is video (or film), I'd like to note that the Woodstock Film Festival is on this weekend.

I've never been to one, for the following reasons:

1. WFF sprang to life via a Fed grant engineered by former Rep. (D) Maurice Hinchey.

2. For its first few years, WFF was openly part of Rep. Hinchey's re-election campaign.

3. In 2007-08, WFF made no pretense of being anything other than an open Hate Bush, Elect Obama propaganda event.

The overt political propaganda at WFF has been tempered a bit during the grand age of Obama. I wonder why?

I don't bother with the festival since it is so clearly a three day leftist propaganda seminar.

AllenS said...

Ann Althouse said...
Are you kidding? America's Politico's post is great! Perfect! BEST COMMENT EVER WRITTEN ON ALTHOUSE!!!!

I'm guessing that you used capital letters in a mocking way. Yes? The problem with AP's schtick, is that it's like someone telling the same joke, over and over. There's never any new material. I remember this same nonsense right before the 2010 elections, and guess what? Everything that he/she said turned out to be bullshit.

I've stopped reading Crack's posts for the very same reason. Oh, and you people are stupid.

From Inwood said...

K/yliz

Your comment here about old boors is correct, but Biden has been this balmy since he was young. (And funny, he was added to the 2008 ticket to give foreign policy gravitas to it.)

And I've been at wakes where the fool is a youngster & the person who tries to put him down is considered mean.

Ryan was faced with the dilemma noted by many: "If I criticize his conduct, they'll say that I was non-substantuive &, QED, I lost the debate whereas if I don't stop his filibustering they'll say that I was weak & let him run over me &, QED, I lost the debate. Heads I lose, tails he wins, dept."

My guess is that Ryan opted to let Joe bluster on hoping that Joe would ultimately self-destruct. I think Joe did, but obviously some Dem Kool-Aid drinkers disagree.

So saying, I wish that, in a couple of cases, Ryan had told Martha, with all due respect of course, that he was gonna finish his thought before she stopped him from expressing it.

creeley23 said...

Creeley,"it'd have" is unpronounceable.

Kylos: Sorry to hear about your speech impediment.

"It'd" is a perfectly legal English contraction. Like most contractions it is for less formal speech and writing, in which I would include blog commenting.

This is the first time I've heard that "it'd" is unpronounceable.

Please spare me your advice in the future.

Kylos said...

Creeley, I never said "it'd" is unpronounceable; I use it myself. My only quibble is with "it'd have". While it is perhaps pronounceable, it's almost never pronounced that way.

This is just a light-hearted tangent. Don't take it too seriously.

From Inwood said...

See:

Taranto: Dr. Strangelaugh — Or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Iranian Bomb.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444799904578052663041594512.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion

&

Noonan: Confusing Strength With Aggression

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443749204578051542621349694.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_BelowLEFTSecond

Ruth Anne Adams said...

Joe Biden = Michael Scott

Paul Ryan = Jim Halpert

Mitt Romney = David Wallace

so Barack Obama = Andy Bernard??

I went to Harvard....ever heard of it??

Biff said...

Last night, it finally occurred to me whom JB really reminded me of: Hugo Chavez. Imagine trying to be a serious candidate who engages Chavez in a debate. The preening, the laughing, the mocking. JB was channeling Chavez.

From Inwood said...

Ruth Ann

Joe B = Bertha Mason

Joe B = Ditto Boland

edutcher said...

Joe has always had an overinflated opinion of himself, coupled with an uninhibited willingness to shoot his mouth off about it.

Considering he ran for office almost the second he got out of law school, he's been in a cocoon all of what passes for his adult life.

Darrell said...

The best political commentary of debate day was the Ryan/Bidet typo
in some comment I read at a Lefty blog.


Hmmmm,

Joe Bidet - American Standard's answer to Joe Camel.

kentuckyliz said...

Typical lefty tactic: aggressively try to bait you into a reaction, no matter how jerky they have to act to do it; and if you react, then they act all wounded and hurt and throw that back on you.

Goes back to the Vietnam War demonstrations. Wait till the newsies aren't looking, then slug a cop. When the cameras swing around to see what's going on, all they get is the cop hitting the creep.

Darrell said...

Hmmmm

You couldn't reproduce the "Ryan/Bidet"?

So you don't see what the other side is saying? You get a preview of what Althouse agitpropers are going to say.

Titus said...

What I saw in the debate was two life long Washington politicians.

tits.

From Inwood said...

Kylos:

I guess I'd've kinda, sorta looked smarter if I'd've typed "non-substantive" in my 9AM comment. :-)

From Inwood said...

edutch @9:36:

Re your comment on Viet-Nam, the following is from a note I wrote to a friend from Inwood about race relations in the 1960s in North Manhattan & The Bronx:

Hey, I'm not the first to have noted that before the 1950s, one could describe the approach of the news media, virtually a print media, toward local news as “largely disinterested looking for local color”. But beginning then & continuing, where there’s a protest group to which it’s sympathetic (PC) like these ‘60s racial integration ones or later Seattle in 2000 or any protests (riots) against various “G-“ summits, or the post-Election 2010 Wisconsin public unions being asked to give up some of their ill-gotten gains for the commonweal, the MSM basically stages the news. This was noted for example by Tom Wolfe in 1988 while promoting his book Bonfire of The Vanities:

Well, one of the things is what I would call “media ricochet”, which is the way real life and life as portrayed by television, by journalists like myself and others, begin ricocheting off of one another. That’s why to me, in Bonfire of the Vanities, it was so important to show exactly how this occurs when television and newspaper coverage become a factor in something like racial politics. And a good bit of the book has to do with this curious phenomenon of how demonstrations, which are a great part of racial and ethnic politics, exist only for the media. In the last days when I was working on The New York Herald-Tribune, I’ll never forget the number of demonstrations I went to and announced that to all the people with the placards, “I’m from The New York Herald-Tribune,” and the attitude was really a yawn, and then, “Get lost”. They were waiting for Channel 2 and Channel 4 and Channel 5, and suddenly the truck would appear and these people would become galvanized. On one occasion I even saw a group of demonstrators down in Union Square, marching across the Square, and Channel 2 arrived, a couple of vans, and the head of the demonstration walked up to what looked like the head man of the TV crew and said, “What do you want us to do?” He says, “Golly, I don’t know. What were you going to do?” He says, “It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. You tell us.”

On the other hand, if a demonstration is un-PC, such as a pro-life one, one against neighborhood violence or noise, or post Obama Election 2008’s “Tea Parties”, invariably if the MSM covers it, it’s to condemn it & to paint demonstrators as extremists.

Bill said...

This is an excellent observation. I hadn't made the connection but now that you have, I'm going to have it stuck in my head whenever Biden speaks.

I still think it's ridiculous that/if you're undecided but between this and putting forward the overlooked idea that Romney was really good in the first debate (as opposed to just Obama blowing it), you've been really on your game lately.

Bender said...

I have friends who love "The Office" but I can't watch it either because it is so painful.

I couldn't watch those episodes when Michael left and new regional vice president Charles Minor took over in the office.

Charles was such a horrible, unpleasant character. That in itself was reason to stop watching, but Jim's pathetic responses to him were just too painful to enjoy watching.

In fact, Charles was so thoroughly dispicable and unpleasant, that I find it hard to start watching Luther on BBC America, where it is hard to believe that this is the same actor (Idris Elba).

I've never really personally identified with The Office, but I most certainly identified with Office Space.

deborah said...

Good analysis, Joe Schmoe.

There is an element of quiet lives of desperation, eight hours in a life boat. What makes it work is the pathos of seeing the foibles of the characters humorously, sympathetically highlighted. My fave is Duane Shrute. My daughter has made very sympathetic noises for Michael.

bagoh20 said...

I have a little bit of that Steve Carrell character going with my boss style. Not the uncomfortable offensive stuff, but the distraction part. My employees are often irritated by my distracting them from their work for frivolity. I just want more than anything for work to be fun. I think it produces the best result. Fun and comfort at work encourages risk taking, creativity, teamwork and a desire to be there and engaged. Besides, I just think it's immoral to make anyone's time less enjoyable than necessary, whether I'm paying them for it or not. I'm the biggest distraction from the grindstone at my company. I see creating happiness at work as my most important responsibility in my job.

Automatically, work is stressful, sometimes even scary, and often dull and boring. Noticing that only destroys effectiveness, so I constantly try to re-focus people toward the fun of work and accomplishment.

My employees feel perfectly comfortable telling me to my face when I'm being an ass. They work incredibly hard without even being asked to, so I think they respect me and appreciate how I am. It seems to be working.

Michael K said...

" in Bonfire of the Vanities, it was so important to show exactly how this occurs when television and newspaper coverage become a factor in something like racial politics. And a good bit of the book has to do with this curious phenomenon of how demonstrations, which are a great part of racial and ethnic politics, exist only for the media."


The book was so great and the movie, of course, was a mess of Hollywood PC.

I don't watch TV sitcoms but Dilbert made some of the same points. Scott Adams used to do the strip in the mornings before going to work as an engineer at Pacific Telephone. His satire was devastating and he got ideas for strips from fellow employees. He was fired by PacTel when they figured out what was happening but he still gets suggestions from a huge network of fan.

jr565 said...

Bender wrote:
I have friends who love "The Office" but I can't watch it either because it is so painful.

I couldn't watch those episodes when Michael left and new regional vice president Charles Minor took over in the office.

Charles was such a horrible, unpleasant character. That in itself was reason to stop watching, but Jim's pathetic responses to him were just too painful to enjoy watching.

In fact, Charles was so thoroughly dispicable and unpleasant, that I find it hard to start watching Luther on BBC America, where it is hard to believe that this is the same actor (Idris Elba).

What was so bad about Miner? HE was no nonsense, get the work done type boss. Whatever you can say about him versus Michael, he didn't embarass Pam by calling her ugly for wearing glasses? And he dind't start up a rival company to try to steal all of Dunder Mifflin's accounts like Michael.
Miner was a dick to Jim, but sometimes Jim is a dick and needs to be taken down a peg (as does everyone else). He also put too much faith in Dwight, but eventually tired of his antics as well.
Miner is cold, but professional. Michael is warm, but cringe inducing and innapropriate,venal, self absorbed etc.
I think Miner's main flaw was that, for whatever reason, people relate to Michael, and you saw his (Miner's) visceral reaction to Michael's antics and he rightly called him a buffoon. But Michael was a buffoon.

deborah said...

Dwight.

The Miner character is very subtle humor that comes from observing his take on the others.

jr565 said...

By the way, back to the debate and Biden's lies, in addition to lying about how no religious institution has to refer or pay for contraception. and was rightly shown to be a liar.
But he also made the point that he personally believes that life begins at conception but that he "he would not “impose” his personal beliefs regarding abortion on others who disagree."
Isn't it funny then that he and Obama are imposing their personal beliefs on health care and forcing religious orgs to toe the line as per Obama and Biden's personal beliefs.
What hypocricy. Is it because abortion is a "religious" belief, and not a "personal" belief. the amount of overlap between the two criterion of belief is often intrictate to the point where one is not sure where a belief comes from. It is as much based on religuios belief as personal conviction (which often dictates which religion you believe in in the first places). Thus you can't really separate your religious beliefs from your non religious beliefs when it comes to trying to pass policy. You do what you think is right. Passing laws against murder could be based on religious belief, but they could just as easily be based on pragmatic beliefs not tied to religion. For a person who believes in religin and also believes in thou shalt not kill, must he be prescribed from ever creating policy concerning life or death issues because he holds that one shouldn't kill others and someone can trace that belief to a religious principle (even if the person making the argument happens to be religious but is making an argument based on pragrmatic conmmon sensical grounds)?
I also note that Biden says his religion dictates how he should treat the poor. Ah, so then by his own logic, he should not be allowed to make any policy that is beneficial to the poor because it may come from his religious views and he doesn't feel he should impose his personal views on others.
Why then are he and dems trying to fight a "war on poverty". Is he going to morally abstain from passing law concerning poor people because his religion dictates thinking a certain way?
This whole notion that one can't impose their religious views is the sign of a moral cretin. It ONLY applies to abortion and is only there to try to dissuade pro life people from being able to profess their views that life begins at conception.
It can ONLY be viewed (by pro choicers) as a religious argument, and religion can't impose it's views due to separation of church and state.
What a crock of shit.
As such his neutrality towards abortion despite thinking that life begins at conception is moral cowardice. He would never make the argument, for example, "my religious views dictate how we should treat the poor, but I don't want to impose my views on others so will refrain from making policy that correspond to my religious/moral views". THat would be absurd.
It really is a sight to behold the degree to which suposedly moral people will espousse the principle taht they personally find something to be murder yet can't make policy on it that corresponds to their views because of some inability to impose their views. Since when has that ever been the case? (That they are reluctant to impose their views).
Pro lifers should hold Bidne and people like him to account for being hypocrites on their religion. I could certainly understand if Biden said that life doesn't begin at conception and that an aborted fetus is just a glob of cells. But he doesn't. He tries to have his cake and eat it at the same time, and then sets a standard that he would not apply to any other moral issue that his rligion would also dictate he follow by and create policy based on.
Biden,I hope you really are a cathoclic and do believe in heaven. Because you aint going there.

Paul said...

Do not over analyze the debate.

Ryan just was ignoring the old shit and trying to get his message to the undecided voters.

No doubt Mitt and Ryan talked to Ex-VP Cheney and they knew all about Biden's obnoxious behavior and they knew he would try to bait Ryan to do something stupid (and Ryan didn't!)

Goju said...

Doesn't anyone remember the Saturday Night Live Weekend Update sketches when Jane Curtain was doing an editorial and Chevy Chase would mug behind her? Biden was a lot close to that than Michael Scott.

sydney said...

Pro lifers should hold Biden and people like him to account for being hypocrites on their religion. I could certainly understand if Biden said that life doesn't begin at conception and that an aborted fetus is just a glob of cells. But he doesn't. He tries to have his cake and eat it at the same time, and then sets a standard that he would not apply to any other moral issue that his religion would also dictate he follow by and create policy based on.

He let the truth slip out during the debate about why he takes the hypocritcal stance he does. When he was going on about how Romney/Ryan would restrict abortions he said "They want to do away with Planned Parent..." then caught himself and switched to abortion. He's marching to the great tune of his paymaster.

Seven Years of College Down the Drain said...

I get Miz Althouse's point, but I think the more appropriate comparison for Biden is with Ricky Gervais in the BBC original.

Possibly the only reason the US version doesn't make me wince is that I'd seen one episode of the Gervais show. Its creepy unsettlingness dwarfs anything the Carell show could serve up.