October 4, 2012

67% said Romney won the debate.

And "No presidential candidate has topped 60% in that question since it was first asked in 1984," according to CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.

That is, it was by far the most decisive win they'd ever measured. And they measured that time Dukakis didn't seem to mind if his wife was raped and that time Reagan said "There you go again."

150 comments:

Robert Cook said...

Public opinion aside, did anyone really win?

Shantastik said...

Mitt Romney is presidential. He's proved it against all the odds with all the media helping Obama. When Obama's media can't help him.... he comes out the loser. As he will on NOV 6th.

chickelit said...

@RC: I thought Krebs was general in the Fuehrerbunker along with Keitel, and Joedl.

Rocketeer said...

I thought Krebs was that stoner beatnik on Dobie Gillis. But really, either Krebs fits.

Gerad Hibbs said...

This is evidence not only that Romney won the debate but that the electorate is primed to vote Romney. People who are in the tank for their candidate are going to say they won no matter what. Leaners are much more difficult to have state that the person they are leaning AGAINST won. The middle has eyes. They can see that Obama has failed. Even if the debate was actually a "tie" I think it would have shown a significant edge for Romney. It has been looking like Romney has been hovering around 52-53% (under the assumption that undecideds break for the challenger.) If this keeps up we might see a 54-55% Romney take.

edutcher said...

I have never seen a performance like that.

The Romster dominated every exchange.

You'd have to go back to Teutoburg Forest, Cannae, or Crassus at Carrhae to find an analogy.

PS Can't wait for the Hitler vid on this one.

PPS No e in Jodl.

Nonapod said...

I guess the difference was stark enough that even the most ardent Obama Pom Pom shakers find anything positive in terms of his performance.

I'd like to believe that the various mischaracterizations, half-truths, misleading statements, and outright lies about Romney (and conservatism in general) that the Dems have attempted to get to stick can't stand up to scrutiny when they're responded to directly on a national stage like that. But unfortunately I think it's more a measure of each candidates demeanor under pressure, and Obama clearly caved.

I'd also like to believe it all will make a difference, though so far I'm unconvinced that it did.

chickelit said...

PPS No e in Jodl.

Du hast also recht gehabt, Du Spitzbube!

Methadras said...

Romney made Urkel look like a little school child. The split screens proved it. I wonder if Urkel was suffering from Post Traumatic Grandpa Disorder. You know that one right? It's where your grandpa is a white guy raising you the left behind half white/black kid because your mom was a lousy leftard tramp.

Jay said...

Obama is a former Con Law professor, how could this have happened?

Lyssa said...

I didn't think that Obama was any worse than he was in 2008, so I was pretty surprised to hear that almost no one is spinning it as anything less than a defeat for him.

Of course, I thought he was pretty bad in 2008 (just up against an opponent who wasn't so great himself). He's never been good at unscripted speaking; I think that people were just a lot more willing to project onto him back then.

tim in vermont said...

I didn't think Obama did that badly, but my expectation levels were correctly set that he is an empty suit, clothes with no emperor, as has been said before.

Gerad Hibbs said...

Rush: Fox News had the largest segment of viewers. 65,000,000 viewers before counting Univision and such. That is a lot of viewers for such a drubbing. I very much doubt future debates will have such an audience.

Nonapod said...

At the very least this may finally put to bed the myth of Obama being a splendid orator

Robert Cook said...

"Mitt Romney is presidential."

What does this mean?

What is "presidential?"

ricpic said...

Game changer!

Gerad Hibbs said...

BTW, first time I've listened to Rush in many years. So far. . .good times. Now he's talking about the Matthews melt down. I tuned in just for this.

Seven Machos said...

Robert Cook -- Presidential means a person who carries and comports herself or himself in such a way that is dignified, confident, and aware enough to have the job of president.

What does "war criminal" mean? Do you have a "statute" for it? What does "statute" mean?

chickelit said...

Robert Cook asks:
What is 'presidential?'

Some know it when they see it:

Romney’s selection of a running mate was, in method and outcome, presidential. It underscores how little in the last four years merits that adjective.

~George Will

edutcher said...

chickelit said...

PPS No e in Jodl.

Du hast also recht gehabt, Du Spitzbube!


All the German I know is from old episodes of "Combat".

Care to put that in a Romance language?

mark said...

@Cook ...

Presidential - "Befitting a president, especially the office of the President of the United States"

Dictionaries are our friends.

Chip S. said...

Oh, poor Robert Cook, left w/nothing but the lamest HS debate gambit.

"Presidential" probably has something to do with possessing the intellect, industriousness, and dedication to duty that are likely to lead to success as president.

The debate clarified the differences between the two men on these points to all who watched with open minds.

Chip Ahoy said...

Methadras. Ouch. Ew I felt that all the way over here.

McTriumph said...

Too funny, The Onion take on the debate.


http://www.theonion.com/articles/mitt-romney-adopts-new-ronnie-ferocious-persona-fo,29789/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post:headline:default

Seven Machos said...

Robert -- What does "jurisdiction" mean? What does "world court" mean?

Looking forward to your answers. By the way, the United States still has armies in conquered states Afghanistan and Iraq. And Bush and Rumsfeld and Rice are free. And there has not been a single national or international arrest warrant.

Why, do you suppose? Maybe your vocabulary limits your intelligence. Or maybe it's the other way round...

chickelit said...

Care to put that in a Romance language?

How about plain English (excuse my familiarity):

But, in 1929, Einstein was again sure he was "on the right track." Wolfgang Pauli wrote scathingly: "[Einstein's] never-failing inventiveness as well as his tenacious energy in the pursuit of [unification] guarantees us in recent years, on the average, one theory per annum… It is psychologically interesting that for some time the current theory is usually considered by its author to be the "definitive solution."

When he finally gave up the "distant parallelism" approach, Einstein wrote to Pauli: "Sie haben also recht gehabt, Sie Spitzbube," or "you were right after all, you rascal!"


:)

Peter said...

'edutcher' said, "You'd have to go back to Teutoburg Forest, Cannae, or Crassus at Carrhae to find an analogy."

Your analogy offers three examples where the superpower of the day lost a battle very, very badly.

Yet Rome endured and prospered for centuries after losing these battles. Is your analogy that although Pres. Obama's campaign lost a major battle, it is so strong that it will be victorious anyway?

Sloanasaurus said...

Your analogy offers three examples where the superpower of the day lost a battle very, very badly.

Not to quibble, but I would not say that Rome was "the superpower of the day" at the time of the battle of Cannae!

Patrick said...

public opinion aside

Wherein Robert Cook demonstrates his failure to understand what an election is.

Alex said...

I agree with RC in the sense that neither Obama or Romney answered the fundamental questions about our economy that need to be asked. All they did is spew cliches.

Robert Cook said...

And yet, "presidential," as defined variously above, refers merely to the appearance projected by an individual.

We all know that appearances deceive.

Romney does not seem in the least "presidential" to me, in the sense that this term is being used here, but rather like a used-car salesman. His manner is false and insincere, and his smile frozen.





Alex said...

Not to quibble, but I would not say that Rome was "the superpower of the day" at the time of the battle of Cannae!

Yes they were.

Sloanasaurus said...

The poll number definately comes from expectations - expectations that no one could beat Obama. That no one was better than Obama. But, now Romney has proven he is better than Obama at Obama's greatest strength - the spoken word.


So why would someone vote to re-elect Obama... its not because of the past four years???

Daniel Richwine said...

Predict the MSM meme. I say it will be Mitt Romney is too tough to be president.

Sloanasaurus said...

Yes they were.

I would argue that they became a superpower after Zama (since they were pretty much unopposed). Immediatly following Cannae, it was very likely that Rome was going to cease to exist.

Kelly said...

"And they measured that time Dukakis didn't seem to mind if his wife was raped." Sorry, that made me laugh, I'd forgotten about that.

I'll never let my husband live down the fact that the very first vote he ever cast was for Dukakis.

Alex said...

Thanks for reminding me about the Bernard Shaw rape question to Dukakis. That was possibly the last time a liberal member of the media asked a hard-hitting question to a Democrat POTUS candidate.

Chip S. said...

And yet, "presidential," as defined variously above, refers merely to the appearance projected by an individual.

Reread my comment. It says nothing whatsoever about "appearance" or projection.

The traits I listed can all be inferred through observation of performance, in a debate and in a job. Romney clearly has those traits, and Obama clearly lacks them.

Sorry for your loss.

Dave D said...

Being "presidential" surely doesn't include going on Conan or The View and just being "one of the guys/gals", does it?

ricpic said...

EXPOSED!

And the light shall come,
Slowly, haltingly at first,
And then in a great flash
That exposes the knave
For what he is,
Lifting his murk
From off our eyes
That we can
SEE!

Seven Machos said...

We all know that appearances deceive.

Romney does not seem in the least "presidential" to me


So, appearances deceive, as we all know, but they do not deceive Robert Cook, presumably because he has some special insight others lack.

Whatever, dude. Romney crushed Obama, and looked more presidential than Obama. You should use your special insight, such as it is, to try to understand international relations.

Or, better, tell us again about how there is some international law that allows you to arrest George W. Bush, and Obama, and American soldiers. And then judge them in special chambers and send them to special camps.

Robert Cook: fascist scum

Daniel Richwine said...

Predict the MSM meme. I say it will be Mitt Romney is too tough to be president.

Robert Cook said...

Seven Machos:

The unfortunate truth of the world is that great criminals often escape punishment or even censure for their crimes. In fact, this is true more often than not. This does not in the least remove the stink or stain of guilt for mass murder from their gore-drenched hands.

Alex said...

The Battle of Cannae

The lesson to be learned from Cannae is that it's not important what your sheer numbers are, but how many troops you can deploy at the point of attack.

Nonapod said...

If you define "superpower" as having the biggest and baddest military, then I think Rome most certainly was a superpower during Punic wars. Carthage was close though.

Lyle said...

Totally surprised by the outcome of this.

Good job Mitt Romney.

Ann Althouse said...

Raped and murdered, btw.

It makes me laugh too. It's only hypothetical rape and murder, but it's politically incorrect to find anything about rape funny, including when it's only hypothetical. (I actually wrote a law review article about that.)

But something about Dukakis's impassive mug and knowing how much his absence of affect hurt him seems so funny now.

And I not only voted for Dukakis, I argued at the time that it was absolutely right for him not to take the bait and get emotional about the death penalty!

BarrySanders20 said...

Cookie,

Talk about deception and a willingness to be deceived. I read the link from the first post. He's the author's bio:

Justin Krebs is a political organizer and writer based in New York City. He is the founder of Living Liberally, a nationwide network of 250 local clubs that create social events around progressive politics, and author of "538 Ways to Live, Work and Play Like a Liberal

Think he's playing this straight about who won the debate?

phx said...

Being "presidential" surely doesn't include going on Conan or The View and just being "one of the guys/gals", does it?

You really think Romney won't do that if he's elected?

Seven Machos said...

You are a terrible fascist, Robert. You don't get to decide who is a criminal, in your fervent little mind. You don't get to imprison the duly elected executive officials of the greatest representative democracy on earth for using their constitutional powers.

Obviously, America is not for you, dude. I hear the Khmer Rouge is looking for a new leader. You should consider getting the fuck out of here, to the hills of Cambodia with your ideological brethren.

Kelly said...

Well, yeah, I would never laugh at a real rape and murder..it's sad I fell the needed to point that out!

Robert Cook said...

Robert Cook: fascist scum."

Hahahaha.

That's funny, because it's so typical: the apologist for mass-murder and torture by American presidents calling someone else a fascist.

Alex said...

SM - there are millions more like RC. They all are buying up supplies and gold for the coming "collapse". They all listen diligently to the Alex Jones Show.

Chip S. said...

phx said...
You really think Romney won't do that if he's elected?

Have you noticed how many of your defenses of Obama are based on speculations about Romney being no better?

I find that telling. Do you?

creeley23 said...

That is, [Romney-Obama] was by far the most decisive win they'd ever measured.

Though you wouldn't have known it from Prof. Althouse's live-blogging. I found this especially interesting after her recent hair-trigger responses of "racist," "repulsive," and "ugly" towards conservatives. Yet, when it's obvious that Obama is losing big, it barely registers with her.

Perhaps her "cruel neutrality" is not all that "cruel" or "neutral." Perhaps it's just "neutrality bullshit."

Chip S. said...

the apologist for mass-murder and torture by American presidents calling someone else a fascist.

Well, he's mostly calling you a self-righteous twit, and you've done nothing to show that he's wrong.

Robert Cook said...

For those who might presume incorrectly, I don't consider Obama "presidential," either.

They're both awful, and both transparently so.

Seven Machos said...

You guys are way too hard on Althouse lately. I, personally, have read the tea leaves and am 100% confident that Althouse already plans to officially back Romney. She has supported him for six years. She's already got the big editorial drafted in her mind, privately.

She's just waiting for the right moment to drop it.

I will tell you what she will call it even, but I don't want to steal her thunder.

I will take reasonable bets on all of this.

Alex said...

It's the self righteous ones like Cook that are the most dangerous. They've built up the "enemy" so diligently in their own minds, they are now set to engage in mass murder of that "enemy" and perceived "collaborators". This is how organizations like the Khmer Rouge get traction, with the Cooks.

garage mahal said...

Romney does not seem in the least "presidential" to me, in the sense that this term is being used here, but rather like a used-car salesman. His manner is false and insincere, and his smile frozen.

My favorite part was when Obama would be talking about popular things, and Romney would gush "I'm for those TOO!". "I'm not going to give tax breaks to the wealthy!" "I'll cover pre-existing conditions too!"

Dude is the biggest shameless liar I've ever seen in politics.

Seven Machos said...

Stalin looked presidential. To Robert Cook.

Chip S. said...

Dude is the biggest shameless liar I've ever seen in politics.

Care to compare and contrast Obama's actual Senate vote on suspending the Stafford Act requirements with his speech before those African-American ministers?

Big Mike said...

I guess 47% is down to 33%

Sloanasaurus said...

If you define "superpower" as having the biggest and baddest military, then I think Rome most certainly was a superpower during Punic wars. Carthage was close though.

Rome, however, didn't really have a consistent standing military tradition until after the 2nd Punic war. Prior to that it was Consular armies raised for short periods of time to address local security issues. It wasn't until the 2nd century BC that Rome had more of a permanent standing army. when it took Greece and became an imperial power.

BarrySanders20 said...

I realized I was politically aware during the D convention when Dukakis was nominated and the MSM were almost orgasmic in praise for his awesomeness. It was entirely artificial. I was watching and listening to the same thing but could not fathom how anyone could describe what they heard or the wonders of the man who said it the way they did.

The indifference to the rape attitude confirmed my belief that Dukakis would have been a pathetic leader.

Voted against Obama because I did not think he'd be a good leader either. I wouldn't follow him into a 7-11. Instead, I would drink my Slurpee by myself in a ditch.

Glad his non-leadership is being exposed.

Seven Machos said...

@big shameless liar

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

Robert Cook said...

"Justin Krebs is a political organizer and writer based in New York City. He is the founder of Living Liberally, a nationwide network of 250 local clubs that create social events around progressive politics, and author of "538 Ways to Live, Work and Play Like a Liberal

"Think he's playing this straight about who won the debate?"


As I read Krebs' article, he didn't rate either participant highly, or indicate he thought either of them "won."

Do you read his column differently?

Seven Machos said...

@big shameless liar

"today I’m pledging to cut the deficit we inherited in half by the end of my first term in office

-- B. Obama, 2009

ricpic said...

Hey Cookie, the candle's sputtering in your Stalin shrine. It's okay, I'll give you a minute to go in there and rekindle. Then get out your shine box!

Patrick said...

You really think Romney won't do that if he's elected?

I doubt a President Romney would go on the View in lieu of meeting with our allies when they are in town.

alan markus said...

Didn't take long for one of these to appear:

Hitler finds out Obama lost the debate

Scott M said...

Dukakis didn't seem to mind if his wife was raped

Wait...Bernard Shaw is black?

hombre said...

Obama was like he is the vast majority of the time - professorial. His problem is that Romney was unwilling to be schooled by him.

Obama wasn't "off" he just had nothing of consequence to say. His campaign has been about attacking Romney which doesn't work so well when you are looking the guy in the eye.

Most importantly, if Obama knew what to do to solve our problems he would be doing it and could argue the results. He doesn't and he can't.

Next time he will attack Romney personally. He has nothing else.

garage mahal said...

Care to compare and contrast Obama's actual Senate vote on suspending the Stafford Act requirements with his speech before those African-American ministers?

What are the chances that if I googled this that it would be complete horseshit? I'm guessing 100%

David-2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

You'd have to go back to Teutoburg Forest, Cannae, or Crassus at Carrhae to find an analogy.

Little Bighorn was much more recent.

David-2 said...

Speaking of favorite moments, remember Reagan "not exploiting, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience."

Reagan-Mondale debate, age issue

The best part of that clip, for me, is Mondale's delighted response. He's genuinely happy (it appears to me) that Reagan got off such a zinger, even at his own expense.

Can you imagine Obama (or any Democrat: Kerry, Reid, Pelosi) (or most Republicans for that matter) being so natural and comfortable about the political fight of their campaign for (re-)election, in today's world?

Scott M said...

GM

What are the chances that if I googled this that it would be complete horseshit?

Why guess. Go do so.

Sloanasaurus said...

What are the chances that if I googled this that it would be complete horseshit? I'm guessing 100%

It turns out that when Obama told this big lie to the congregation, the Congress had two weeks before passed the waiver for the Stafford Act for New Orleans. And Obama voted against it (because of the Iraq funding).

Why would Obama claim that there was no waiver?

How can he get away with telling such a bold lie?

Nora said...

I think this is an effect of low expectations following media's picture of Pomney. He was not only good, he shown capacity to learn well and fast during Republican debates.

I only watched the later debates. However, although I can't be sure, judging by media coverege of the earlier ones, I'm still undesided whether Romney is good learner, or a good tactician, or both.

I also think that Romney would have a much more difficult task if Obama did not have record, because Obama can lie with passion and is cinical enough to do this, while Romney is obviously more comfortable with dry facts. I think that this is a reason he comes through as somewhat wooden and boring relatively to other politicians. I never saw this as a problem. I prefer better executive than better salesman at the helm.

Christopher in MA said...

Being "presidential" surely doesn't include going on Conan or The View and just being "one of the guys/gals", does it?

You really think Romney won't do that if he's elected?


If he does, he deserves every bit of ridicule that can be thrown at him. An American President is not a celebrity and should not act as such. Appearing on The View is an insult to the innate dignity of the office.

Not to mention it would be throwing pearls before swine.

David-2 said...

Hmm. My "favorite moments" post above is on the wrong thread - I meant to post it on the later thread about Gore's altitude sickness. But no matter ...

Alex said...

So at this point GM is just makin' shit up.

ricpic said...

Einstein got too big for his britches
And thought he could solve it all;
Pauli came along, that rascal,
Popping pomposity to peach pitses.

Christopher in MA said...

What are the chances that if I googled this that it would be complete horseshit? I'm guessing 100%

Oh, go ahead and look it up, you hack. Either you'll run away, scream "SQUIRREL!" or pretend the link you found doesn't say what it says.

Go on, troll, dance.

Baron Zemo said...

Garage the only way it would be bullshit is if it was one of your links.

That is the general rule here buddy.

Mormon.....Boo!!!

Baron Zemo said...

Appearing on the View is an insult to any man who is stupid enough to go on it.

You have to be a moron.

hombre said...

"Dude is the biggest shameless liar I've ever seen in politics."

Here's garage engaged in the left's second favorite pastime - right after spending other people's money - projection.

And on the heels of the great Benghazi lies too.

ricpic said...

Hey Alex, if you don't come off your high horse and vote for Romney I'll personally reach out and whup you upside the haid. Don't say you haven't been warned.

Robert Cook said...

The proper response to the question that derailed Dukakis should have been something like this:

"As a man--as a husband and father--I would almost certainly feel great hatred toward the man who raped and murdered my wife, and I would probably wish him to be punished terribly, even tormented and tortured, before suffering a terrible death.

"But I believe in our system of justice. And our system of justice was not intended to serve as an instrument of collective or personal revenge. It was created precisely to remove the cruelty of caprice or emotion from our dispensation of justice. It is meant to render impartial judgments and apply punishment dispassionately, and with mercy, where warranted. I believe our system of justice is the best and fairest in the world, and it can only remain so if we stand by it and hold it to our highest standards, and if we resist the powerful and universal urge to seek the satisfaction of avenging personal wrongs done to us."

Robert Cook said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Hmmmm. As I suspected.

U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007

Lieberman and Landrieu were joined by Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., a presidential hopeful who made the most of the opportunity offered by a swarming international media to say he was "embarrassed" by the White House's handling of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.

[...]

At the hearing Monday, Obama seemed unsatisfied with many of the answers Powell gave. Asked why the federal government had not waived the requirement of a 10 percent matching payment from local governments for cleanup and public buildings, as it had for Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and the 2001 terrorist attacks on New York, Powell said it didn't need to because the state could pay the match using federal money.

edutcher said...

Peter said...

You'd have to go back to Teutoburg Forest, Cannae, or Crassus at Carrhae to find an analogy.

Your analogy offers three examples where the superpower of the day lost a battle very, very badly.

Yet Rome endured and prospered for centuries after losing these battles. Is your analogy that although Pres. Obama's campaign lost a major battle, it is so strong that it will be victorious anyway?


I see your point, but I was thinking more in terms of the combatants on the spot, not the powers they represented.

AF said...

That is, it was by far the most decisive win they'd ever measured. And they measured that time Dukakis didn't seem to mind if his wife was raped and that time Reagan said "There you go again."

But that's Romney's problem, isn't it? What's the memorable line from last night?

Alex said...

Cook - so all that did was reinforce to me the idea that half of liberals are squishes. Vengeance is a normal human behavior and should be encouraged for mental stability. To deny vengeance is unhealthy and uncivilized. Somehow the Roman Republic/Empire existed for a 1000 years despite much harsher penalties.

Robert Cook said...

Alex,

Obviously, you don't believe in America.

Alex said...

Cook - what is America then? A land of squishes?

Colonel Angus said...

It is meant to render impartial judgments and apply punishment dispassionately, and with mercy, where warranted.

I'm reminded of The Outlaw Josey Wales and the scene after the Confederate bushwhackers were executed and the Senator said.

They were decently treated. They were decently fed and they were decently shot.

SteveR said...

So at this point GM is just makin' shit up.

So as usual GM is just makin' shit up. /fixed

Seven Machos said...

But that's Romney's problem, isn't it? What's the memorable line from last night?

What's Obama's memorable line ever? Moreover, most memorable lines by politicians are not memorable because they are really good. Quite the opposite.

Freeman Hunt said...

No one should ever go on The View. Whenever anyone goes on The View to appeal to women I think, "Oh, so you do take us for a bunch of braying harpies."

AF said...

What's Obama's memorable line ever? Moreover, most memorable lines by politicians are not memorable because they are really good. Quite the opposite.

Okay, what was Obama's memorably bad line?

ricpic said...

If Cookie ruled the world he'd finally get some godammed respect, that's what! The man's been studying these things for years. What things? Things!! And he's got it all figgered out and you better show him some respect, Alex, cause you obviously don't have it all figgered out and hop from foot to foot on alternate Tuesdays and just listen to the man, gawdammit!!!

furious_a said...

edutcher: PPS No e in Jodl.

But I don't have an umlaut key.

Methadras said...

Was the rape tag on how Romney raped Obama?

furious_a said...

Peter: Yet Rome endured and prospered for centuries after losing these battles.

OK, how about Harold at Hastings or Romanos Diogenes at Manzikert?

Seven Machos said...

AF -- He didn't have one as far as I know. My point is simply that you don't need to have a great line and that you are much more likely to have a bad line.

So, two points, I guess.

Chip S. said...

garage mahal once again proves he's a gullible moron dragging sorry-ass talking points from the sites where he soaks up his "ideas," without actually knowing what he's talking about.

The bill Obama voted for was this one, which did not become law. The one that subsequently passed, which he did vote against, was this one.

Needless to say, garage ignores the basic point, which is that when Obama gave his speech he knew that the Stafford waiver had been granted.

Also, there's this:

Asked why the federal government had not waived the requirement of a 10 percent matching payment from local governments for cleanup and public buildings, as it had for Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and the 2001 terrorist attacks on New York, Powell said it didn't need to because the state could pay the match using federal money.

Obama isn't just a liar. He's a demagogue who lies in order to foment racial resentment solely for purposes of his own political gain.

He is disgusting.

creeley23 said...

But that's Romney's problem, isn't it? What's the memorable line from last night?

AF: JFK probably had memorable lines in his debate with Nixon, but what people remembered, or at least we are told, was Nixon's five o'clock shadow and rumpled appearance compared to JFK's stunning movie star looks and easy speaking confidence.

I wouldn't put Romney into JFK glamor territory, but for sheer energy and ease he dominated Obama. That's what people will remember, and doubly so since they have been told constantly what a loser, what a stiff, what a far-right wacko Romney is by the media and by the Obama campaign.

Romney did what Obama was supposed to do -- blow his opponent off the stage.

This is a big boost for Romney and big credibility loss for the media and Obama.

mccullough said...

Obama needs to pick up the phone and talk to W. about what he did after his first debate with Kerry.

Obama is in a similar position to W. A not very popular president running against a not very popular challenger. He needs to talk to W., not Kerry, about how to improve.

Nora said...

garage mahal said...
Hmmmm. As I suspected.

Yeh, that what I suspected too, that you'll not check the facts, but go to the media commissars to tell you want to think.
Here is the bill: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr2206

As you can see the final vote was on 5/24/2007 (if you want to check, Obama did vote 'Nay') and it was signed by the President on 5/25. The date on the Obama's nasty speech tape that I saw is 6/5/2007.

phx said...

Have you noticed how many of your defenses of Obama are based on speculations about Romney being no better?

I find that telling. Do you?


Have you noticed how many of your defenses of Romney are based on namecalling?

That's even more telling.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

garage, your link refers to H.R. 1591, which called for a withdrawal from Iraq and was vetoed by President Bush.

The actual U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act of 2007 was H.R.2206. The vote in the Senate was 80 Yea 14 Nay. Barack Obama was one of the Nays.

The only "complete horseshit" around here is your research.

Patrick said...

Garage:At the hearing Monday, Obama seemed unsatisfied with many of the answers Powell gave. Asked why the federal government had not waived the requirement of a 10 percent matching payment from local governments for cleanup and public buildings, as it had for Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and the 2001 terrorist attacks on New York, Powell said it didn't need to because the state could pay the match using federal money.

But then when he had the opportunity to do something about it rather than just give a grandstanding speech, he failed to, once again.

Emil Blatz said...

Kitty watched the debate last night with a fine vintage cleaning product. Sez it went down smooth, with no bite.

Seven Machos said...

I feel bad for Garage today. He's a decent fellow and it's clear that he's just phoning it in today, hoping he can coast on ability until his passion kicks in.

I don't think his passion will kick in because Obama sucks.

But I feel you, G. (May I call you G?) I had to deal with McCain as my candidate in 2008.

BarrySanders20 said...

Veering off to examine Obama's ugliness -- and the truth here is really ugly -- is not Romney's plan, but who says you are doing his bidding? Do what you want.

He's got the narrative shifted in his favor that enough people could see him as a viable alternative to Other Barry II. He did that without needing to look to 2007, but by focusing on Other Barry's failures from 2008-last night. Otehr Barry sucks, and Romney needs to close this out focusing on the suck of Other Barry's failures and the lack of any clue about how to advance the country's interests.

AF said...

AF: JFK probably had memorable lines in his debate with Nixon, but what people remembered, or at least we are told, was Nixon's five o'clock shadow and rumpled appearance compared to JFK's stunning movie star looks and easy speaking confidence.

I wouldn't put Romney into JFK glamor territory . . .


Neither would I. Nor would I put Obama in Richard Nixon-ugly category. So I'm not sure this one holds up. If we're talking about charisma, Romney is definitely being graded on a curvey.

garage mahal said...

The only "complete horseshit" around here is your research

That was the previous version of the supplemental bill that contained the waiver of the Stafford Act.

Seven Machos said...

So, Garage -- Obama was for it before he was against it?

Awesome! Truly.

garage mahal said...

But then when he had the opportunity to do something about it rather than just give a grandstanding speech, he failed to, once again.

See my last response. He voted for a waiver of the Stafford Act. H.R.1591

traditionalguy said...

This debate was like a re-run of the Battle of Midway when the Japanese Navy Admirals suffering from victory disease set up a complex plan that they had really never practiced and were attacked by a smarter and better band of warriors with a single minded intent.

Romney will go down in history for this debate if for nothing else.

Mike said...

That dang Romney failed to live up to the caricature the Left drew of him. It's funny that media elites are piling on Lehrer -- as if he didn't try mightily to help Barack out a time or two -- instead of looking at themselves. For they created this arrogant monster. They feed him loving coverage every day and never fail to miss a chance to ask Obama a tough question. No wonder that when challenged with facts and rebuttals to his weak arguments Obama turned into a stuttering fool, letting his peevishness show a little too much.

For the rest of us, this was the Mitt we know and the Obama we know all too well. Nothing new to see here. What is the fuss all about? Did people actually believe the hype?

Chip S. said...

Have you noticed how many of your defenses of Romney are based on namecalling?

No, actually, I haven't. But I do notice that you have nothing of substance to say.

Robert Cook said...

"Cook - what is America then? A land of squishes?"

From your point of of view, yes, that's what we are according to our Constitution.

Seven Machos said...

Why does phx call people name callers? It's rude.

Seven Machos said...

according to our Constitution

Please show us where in the document foreigners are allowed to arrest current and former chief executives and soldiers for carrying out duly-made American policy.

Looking forward to it, fascist scum...

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Mike said...

It's funny that media elites are piling on Lehrer -- as if he didn't try mightily to help Barack out a time or two -- instead of looking at themselves.



It's hilarious that they try to make that argument considering Obama had four minutes more speaking time, but Lehrer is at fault for not giving him more.

Chip S. said...

But I will say this, phx. If you're referring to what I said about garage mahal, then you're ignoring the fact that I provided 3 links to substantiate my points. What do you do to substantiate your glum prophesies about Romney?

Anyway, what should one say about a commenter who regularly posts misleading or outright false comments that are nothing but talking points he's picked up elsewhere? Would you say that he's dishonest?

Fine. Say that. But don't demand that people be nice to people whose sole purpose is to mislead.

Cedarford said...

Patrick said...
You really think Romney won't do that if he's elected?

I doubt a President Romney would go on the View in lieu of meeting with our allies when they are in town
-----------------
It drove the Christian Zionist Right hysterical their beloved "Bibi" didn't have his wasy....But not just Obama, but most past Presidents will not just come a running when the leader of a crappy little country (or even a major power) snaps his fingers and demands a meeting.

The leader of small bestest, most special friend allied nations don't just show up and demand summits. Even bestest friends like Greece, the Bahamas, Georgia and Jordam.
Nor do State and the White HOuse respond well to public demands by the likes of major powers breaching protocols and demanding time for impromptu Summitry in the media.

A President Romney, especially as a skilled exec..will not just run to meet when the PM of Ireland or Peru or New Guinea wants it. Nor bigger players like Vladimir Putin.
The response is

"My people will meet with your people on issues that need working on over days, weeks, months. Along the way, if an impass is hit, then my Secretary of State and his counterpart with you will try to get through the logjams as the principal parties with all the facts and advisors on negotiations. They can't - then both brief us on why. Then we talk as the top execs.
Then once other people spend hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of hours hashing matters out and we get some agreement,then we Leaders talk on phone with the delegations to iron out the last details behind closed doors. Once that is done, THEN we publicly meet."


Mike said...

@ Chip S

You are an exceedingly patient guy, and God bless you for trying to educate the unreachable.

Seven Machos said...

Those Jews, Cedarford! Always demanding meetings and running the world and being rich and lazy and dumb.

You'd probably be successful and happy if it wasn't for those darn Jews.

DADvocate said...

This is old news, someone mentioned it in the comments t another post early this morning.

I'm sooo far ahead of some of you guys.

Cookie's comment is classic. I bet he spent hours looking for that link. Gotta find the leftie columnist that can't accept the truth and proclaim him the judge.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DADvocate said...

Why does phx call people name callers?

Because he's a low-down, yellow bellied, son of a biscuit eater.

Mike said...

For those who favor Obama and still can't wrap their minds around what they saw last night, there are two concepts that may help you. First, the next debate will be worse for Obama because of the Taranto Principle. Second, the MSM reaction to the debate will only enhance the negative effect the Taranto Principle has on Obama.

(Google it. I'm not Chip S and I won't give you the damn link!)

Balfegor said...

Re: Seven Machos:

What's Obama's memorable line ever?

Oh that's easy:

Yes, ve kann!
We are the ones we have been waiting for.

And of course,
(After the Democrats nominated him in 2008):

I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth.

Presidents can pull off lines like those, but they have to be earned. Some tit of a PM going "on the beaches" is spouting a lot of fine words, but no one remembers those words because they haven't been earned -- they're just sounds coming out of a politician's piehole. Same with all Obama's rhetoric. No one remembers it (other than the cheap sloganeering), because none of it has been earned by action or struggle.

Nathan Alexander said...

@AF,
But that's Romney's problem, isn't it? What's the memorable line from last night?

Take your pick:
"Trickle-down government"
"You don't pick the winners and losers, you just pick the losers."
“Look, I got five boys. I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true, but just keep on repeating it and ultimately hoping I will believe it.”


Okay, what was Obama's memorably bad line?

"Jim, you may wanna move on to another topic"

Matthew Sablan said...

Hey, it's not Lehrer's fault he didn't get the hint that it was time to move on. Obama was too subtle... wait? He actually just told the moderator to move on? Out loud?

Well then.

creeley23 said...

Neither would I. Nor would I put Obama in Richard Nixon-ugly category. So I'm not sure this one holds up.

AF:No. Reread my comment. I wasn't speaking of raw physical beauty but of the overall look of Romney's dominating energy and ease over Obama.

Think back to all the media hype about Obama as the most brilliant orator and political mind of our time while Romney is just a plastic stiff, a loser.

Think back to those two-shots at the end of the debate, where Romney is animatedly speaking with a smile and flashing eyes, while Obama is lost, staring downward, no eye contact, and grimacing.

That's the look of Romney crushing Obama. That's what people will remember.

Robert Cook said...

"I'm reminded of The Outlaw Josey Wales and the scene after the Confederate bushwhackers were executed and the Senator said.

"They were decently treated. They were decently fed and they were decently shot."


I had forgotten that we have become so debased that many of us think we should look to violent movies and television shows, (e.g., 24), to guide our policies and our behavior in the world.

Baron Zemo said...


"Comrade Cookie said....
I had forgotten that we have become so debased that many of us think we should look to violent movies and television shows, (e.g., 24), to guide our policies and our behavior in the world."

Garage is basing his hopes for the election on "The Green Mile."



furious_a said...

RC: I had forgotten that we have become so debased that many of us think we should look to violent movies and television shows, (e.g., 24), to guide our policies and our behavior in the world.

Tut-tut! The rod up your *ss has a rod up its *ss.

furious_a said...

AF: But that's Romney's problem, isn't it? What's the memorable line from last night?

The problem (for the AF's, etc., that is) is that they can't process it unless it fits on a bumper sticker.

Balfegor said...

PS Can't wait for the Hitler vid on this one.

Oh yes.

Der Angriff 47% war ein Befehl! Wer sind Sie, dass Sie es wagen, sich meinem Befehl zu widersetzen? So weit ist es also gekommen? Die Medien haben mich belogen!

America's Politico said...

How dare you, Mitt? How dare you touch the great and best POTUS Obama?

You are finish. This is the Sean Connery/Bond in Untouchables and Dr. No talking. We will DESTROY you.

Every child, man, and woman will learn about 47%.

No one will know the Race/Video/Wright. No press will cover it.

They will only cover 47%.

Romney, do you not realize that he is the POTUS. How dare you look at him? How dare you challenge him?

You are a pedestrian. We will NEVER LOOK at your UGLY, WHITE, Traitor Face.

Forget you, Mitt?

TmjUtah said...

I work with about the most apolitical bunch of men you could find. We build the big stuff, from dirt to concrete to steel to glass.

The consensus at lunch was Romney owned.

America's Politico said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to-F_MQTvCw

I WILL NOT LOOK AT YOUR UGLY FACE, MITT.

-POTUS BHO

Kirk Parker said...

furious,

You don't need an umlaut key, the name is Jodl not Jödl. (The latter is a name in German, in fact the General who signed the surrender documents was named Gustav Jödl, but the fellow you're talking about is Alfred Jodl, nicht wahr?)

Christopher in MA said...

Read the damn memo, Cedarford. Israel's a "shitty little country," not crappy.