September 12, 2012

"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

"But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts."

The full text of Obama's statement, released today. Refer to the full context and to the place where it appears at the end of a timeline of statements — from various individuals, including Romney.

142 comments:

Alex said...

Unbelievable. Apologizing for the ransackers and murderers.

Alex said...

Romney - you run with this!

rhhardin said...

Criticism is how you learn your religious beliefs are stupid.

Balfegor said...

These are the important points:

Yesterday, four of these extraordinary Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi. Among those killed was our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, as well as Foreign Service Officer Sean Smith. We are still notifying the families of the others who were killed.

I've also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.

The rest is filler.

Nathan Alexander said...

unequivocally reject

Okay, let's say we all unequivocally reject it. In an amazing show of solidarity, let's say even the moderate Moslems (Muslims?) reject the violence.

What I want to know is: what is the United States doing to bring the perpetrators to justice, and what is the President doing to make sure it doesn't happen again?

Or perhaps most importantly, what is the President doing to make sure it doesn't happen again without compromising our right to free speech?

The Drill SGT said...

How about something in there about denigrating the Faith of Coptic Christians by pogrom?

Like the Alien-POTUS segment from Independence Day:

POTUS: What do you want us to do?
Alien: Die....

Nathan Alexander said...

To clarify: "work with the Libyan govt" isn't enough, because we don't know the sympathies of the Libyan govt.
"Increasing security" isn't enough, because you can't play defense forever...you have to be 100% vigilant all the time, and the enemy only has to get lucky once. And even heightened security has risks, because heightened security has patterns that can be exploited.

Threat = capability + intent

We can't do anything to change the intent, that is in the control of the Islamic religion. But we can act to reduce their capability to carry out their intent.

And we should.

Obama inherited a good security situation from Bush, and let it go all to crap.

Balfegor said...

Or perhaps most importantly, what is the President doing to make sure it doesn't happen again without compromising our right to free speech?

Concretely, he is scrambling our terrifying army of flying robots. Not the ones that kill people, though, just the ones that spy.

Nathan Alexander said...

@Alex,
Perhaps from the President's perspective, there is little difference between these ransackers and murderers and the Occupy crowd he supported.

Remember, he used the threat of a violent crowd to get the bankers in line: ("Remember, I'm all that is standing between you and the pitchforks").

So perhaps President Obama identifies more with the looters, takers, and destroyers than with the forces for stability, peace, and prosperity.

David said...

I do not see Obama's statement as an apology. Bloodless diplospeak, yes, but not an apology.

(The Cairo Embassy tweet? That was an apology. Or something else hopelessly confused, but it was not Obama's statement.)

Making "apology" the issue plays into O's hands. The issue is his overall diplomatic approach. His politicization of everything. His and Clinton's failure to secure the diplomats. Rtc.

roesch/voltaire said...

It was the second time Romney has been burned by an early statement on a complex crisis: Romney denounced the Obama Administration's handling of a Chinese dissident's escape just as the Administration negotiated behind the scenes for his departure from the country.
"They were just trying to score a cheap news cycle hit based on the embassy statement and now it’s just completely blown up," said a very senior Republican foreign policy hand, who called the statement an "utter disaster" and a "Lehman moment" — a parallel to the moment when John McCain, amid the 2008 financial crisis, failed to come across as a steady leader.

John Lynch said...

How about, "the culprits will be brought to justice??

Too hard?

DADvocate said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

Really. How does this reconcile with Obama's bitter clingers statement and other such stuff? Plus, some religious beliefs deserve to be and should be denigrated. LASTLY, why is Obama using that racist word, "denigrate?"

David said...

"Work with the Libyan government . . . ."

Yeah, there's a big assumption in that, isn't there? Maybe it's just a formula bow. Sure as hell we should assume that the Libyan government, or at least important elements in that government, will not want to do a damn thing. We should ready our own response. I believe Obama will do that--just in time for the election.

Bob Ellison said...

David, Obama's ambassadors speak for Obama. They do so badly, but they do. Obama's abject failure to take responsibility for them is pathetic.

edutcher said...

The payoff is Zero's reading: bored, flat, uncaring.

Now there's a train wreck.

Balfegor said...

Re: David:

Yes -- Obama's statement is much better than the embassy tweet. Which it should be. Following criticism from Romney and others, his administration has >explicitly disavowed the embassy tweet. That doesn't help with the problem of mixed messages, or the basic State Department culture that made someone think the tweet was an appropriate response, but at least the administration has ended up closer to where it ought to be.

karrde said...

So, if the U.S. government stands against any and all attempts to denigrate religion...

Does that mean Obama will officially disapprove of those who screen Inherit the Wind to mock Creationists?

Gotta keep my scorecard straight, after all.

David said...

RV must be an important guy.

He's right at the top of the distribution list for the lefty talking points. His latest post is making the rounds.

Just once, RV, original thought?

Balfegor said...

Sorry, it was the statement, not the tweet, that Romney condemned.

RichardS said...

Romney might contrast how Mormons handle criticism and mockery with how some Muslims handle it.

Revenant said...

Man, I hope this shit-for-brains loses the election.

Balfegor said...

Actually, the disavowal seems to have come from an anonymous low-level functionary in State, which seems insufficient here. OTOH, it came only one minute after Romney's condemnation, so it was probably just in response to people other than Romney asking what they could have been thinking.

SGT Ted said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

Unless they are Christians opposing Gay Marriage. Its completely OK to denigrate them as haters and bigots.

Shouting Thomas said...

Let's see...

Forcing Catholic universities to supply birth control doesn't "denigrate the religious beliefs of others!"

Saint Croix said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

So Islam thinks you're just an incompetent weak fucker who can't enforce our laws that apparently require blasphemy to be punished.

Meanwhile, Americans think you're an incompetent weak fucker who can't stand up for free speech in the face of a mob attack.

You're just going to diplomat your way into being despised by anybody who's paying attention.

roesch/voltaire said...

My last post was a quote from a news story, I try to base my thoughts on facts, time-lines etc, but I must say I like this tweet, better than I could express it:
"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

Nathan Alexander said...

"work with the Libyan govt"

Which means that if anyone associated with the investigation at all has ties to the people who did this, they will be getting constant updates of what the US knows and what the US plans to do.

So President Obama seems to be okay with the very real possibility that by working with the Libyan govt, we'll be tipping off the perpetrators who did this, allowing them to get away untouched.

No?

Matthew Sablan said...

The funny thing is that R/V and others seem more focused on the movie being offensive or Romney being joined by Obama in criticizing the Cairo embassy's response than the part where -people were murdered.-

SGT Ted said...

And RV eequivocates between free speech that offends and murder. They're all just "idiots", huh?

Revenant said...

I must say I like this tweet, better than I could express it:

"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

It is a great irony that such an idiotic quote should make such enthusiastic use of the word "idiot". :)

Nathan Alexander said...

"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

Or, more accurately:
An American engages in free speech, another American promotes the use of free speech, Muslims exploit Obama's weak stance on security to kill Americans, and the left tries to use identity politics, insults, spin, slander, and lies to keep Obama's re-election prospects alive.

Amartel said...

Muddled, wrong, confused. What happens when the Instructor of Oprah Studies runs smack into the Constitution at ramming speed.

Patrick said...

"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it,the President apologizes to the killers and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

Fixed that little part that you missed.

Patrick said...

Once again, President Obama is leading from behind. This time, he's leading from behind Mitt Romney.

Rusty said...

roesch/voltaire said...
My last post was a quote from a news story, I try to base my thoughts on facts, time-lines etc, but I must say I like this tweet, better than I could express it:



Oh. Irony.

Matthew Sablan said...

Hey, remember when Obama got a do over on his response to the invasion of Georgia? Where he basically ditto'ed everything McCain had already said?

Michael said...

"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

In which Obama has no role. Present by absence.

Michael said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MayBee said...

So lefties-

Do you think the president should be asked about his thoughts on the state of the Arab spring? Egypt and Libya were his particular projects. He worked to get them to their current states- and our embassies have been attacked. Is this something you think Obama just should not feel compelled to address?

Balfegor said...

Interesting to note (on the Atlantic timeline) that the initial 7:21 am version of Obama's statement fails to note that they're doing anything to track down the murderers, but does talk about improving embassy security usw. The statement Althouse links adds key phase immediately after:

we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people

I'm guessing that was added in response to vociferous criticism. That or maybe they couldn't get the Libyans on the phone?

MayBee said...

Good catch, Michael. Obama has no role except to be a victim

Greg said...

Ann, the timeline you linked to missed a beat, according to Byron York, after the original Tweet and after "the radicals had breached the walls, torn down the American flag and replaced it with an Islamist banner," but before Sec. Clinton's response,

"the embassy sent out a tweet (now deleted), which said: "This morning's condemnation (issued before protest began) still stands. As does our condemnation of unjustified breach of the Embassy." It is not clear if the embassy actually sent out a statement condemning the breach, but it most certainly sent out a statement condemning any possible offense against Muslim sensibilities."

carrie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anglelyne said...

"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths.

No it hasn't. It was founded as a nation that tolerated beliefs and rejected the establishment of a state religion. The idea that 18th-century Americans were consumed with respect for any and all religions is revisionist Orwellian drivel.

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

"We" do no such thing. (What the hell does that sentence even mean?) "We" have been engaging in the criticism, rejection, and mockery of each other's beliefs, with remarkably limited recourse to violence, "since our founding".

Look at any newspaper or website, this one included, and at this very moment you can find Americans engaged in denigrating the hell out of "belief", from Catholics to fundies to New Agers to you-name-it. Oddly, those persons most tenderly concerned for the sensitivities of Muslims seem often to be the most robust, tenacious, and loud in their denigration of those Americans of the Christian persuasion.

(Christ, I know all governments put out bullshit diplomatic boilerplate about all sorts of things, but the sheer vomit-inducing whorish crawling on display here just...)

Balfegor said...

MayBee:

Do you think the president should be asked about his thoughts on the state of the Arab spring?

Not a leftwinger, but I do think it's a bit early to tell. Certainly, just as Iraq and Afghanistan have soured us on WW2-style forced democratisation, these events may sour us on promoting democratisation of hostile populations in general. But too early to tell -- no reason for his thinking (to the extent he's even devoted any serious thought to this) to change on a dime.

Balfegor said...

Re: Greg:

Ah, I should have known better than to trust Garance Franke-Ruta!

AndyN said...

roesch/voltaire said...

My last post was a quote from a news story, I try to base my thoughts on facts...


It speaks volumes that you think buzzfeed publishes news stories. That admission alone probably entirely explains your delusion that you base your thoughts on facts.

Anglelyne said...

RV: [...]but I must say I like this tweet, better than I could express it:
"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."


No surprise such a brainless little epigram would attract your admiration. It exceeds even your exacting standards for juvenile banality.

harrogate said...

"Hey, remember when Obama got a do over on his response to the invasion of Georgia? Where he basically ditto'ed everything McCain had already said?"

Yeah, I do. And the "we're all Georgians" comment was not made less ridiculous thereby.

creeley23 said...


No [the US has not been a nation that respects all faiths]. It was founded as a nation that tolerated beliefs and rejected the establishment of a state religion. The idea that 18th-century Americans were consumed with respect for any and all religions is revisionist Orwellian drivel.

"We" have been engaging in the criticism, rejection, and mockery of each other's beliefs, with remarkably limited recourse to violence, "since our founding".


Anglelyne @1:23: Thanks for saying that. My thoughts exactly. I wish our politicians would stop saying foolish, misleading things like Obama did.

I read Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" while in parochial school. It singed my eyebrows and changed me forever.

We do a disservice to Muslims by coddling them with Obama's "respect." Islam is a religion which badly needs to grow up and accept that free men and free women will not bow down to it. They may in fact despise Islam and are allowed to express that.

SunnyJ said...

So I guess when the President called Christians, clingers to their guns and bibles...that was making nice?

This is the crisis they've created and they will use it to nudge us closer to the collapse required to allow the left to destroy the country we have and institute their transformational vision. You can count on that it will include supervised speech approved by the central planners. The MSM is using the phony excuse of the "bad video" to attack Romney instead of the murderers. Obama responded to Romney before they responded to the attacks. These were planned and coordinated and they make the excuse for limiting free speech. When they're done with Terry Jones and the film maker whose next? Althouse, you, me?

AJ Lynch said...

I was at the 711 an hour ago. The young man who works there usually talks only about sports. He asked me "did you appear about Libya...Obama said we have to respect all religions" He did not agree at all with Obama's response.

I was shocked that the subject even came up from this young man who has been clerking at this 711 for 4 or 5 years. I had assumed for some reason that he was apolitical. I suspect this could be a sign of the coming Romney landslide.

AprilApple said...

Our pals the Libyans told the protesters where the Ambassador and other Americans were moved to.
This - according to CBS news.

PackerBronco said...

Translation:

"We respect the religious beliefs of all those who become violent when their beliefs are questioned.

But all of you non-violent Christians who get annoyed when your crucifixes get dipped in urine or icons of the Virgin Mary get covered in dung --- too BAD!!!"

damikesc said...

So Libya helped kill him.

Good policy there Barry.

Simon said...

DADvocate said...
"[Obama says that we reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.] Really. How does this reconcile with Obama's bitter clingers statement and other such stuff?"

The President and his party believe that we must afford the utmost respect for people of faith, so long as they keep it to themselves behind closed doors.

DADvocate said...

"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

Once again, no original thought from RV. Obviously, it's quite clear than he has no problem with hatred bigotry as long as it comes from his side. What are Republicans condemning Obama for RV? Any guesses, bozo?

JL said...
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DADvocate said...

The President and his party believe that we must afford the utmost respect for people of faith, so long as they keep it to themselves behind closed doors.

You left out the "Nor act according to their religiouis beliefs" part.

Simon said...

You know, it's interesting. Think about Andres Serrano's "pisspoor" or whatever it was called. Serrano was verbally attacked, and I could imagine someone physically attacking him. What I cannot imagine, however, is a scene where a throng of enraged French Catholics attack the American Embassy because of the conduct of one person in America. There's a disconnect here—it's really revealing, actually, of the mindset of these people, although I don't know whether it's a muslim mindset or an arab mindset. There's an almost borg-like instinct to attribute of the acts of one member of a community to the whole community, or at least a willingness to see the whole as a proxy for the individual ("I'm mad at this guy, but I can't punch him, but he's an American and these are Americans who I can punch").

Saint Croix said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

We protect the free speech rights of people to say blasphemy. This is an important and fundamental American right, the idea being that our opinions about God are up to us, not the federal government.

So we do not "reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

You lie!

But aside from this shocking and stupid lie about our country's laws, your timing is chickenshit.

You make your wussy liberal comment the day after a mob attacks our embassy and kills our ambassador.

Why make it now?

When they kill our diplomat, that's a sign that our fucking diplomacy is not working. Yes? And yet you still want to say nice diplomatic things about Islam and how concerned we all are that they not get their fucking feelings hurt.

Simon said...

Or think of Dan Brown's offensive and silly Catholic-baiting. I must have missed the throngs of Italians burning old glory in protest.

AReasonableMan said...

roesch/voltaire said...
"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama."


This is funny and cynical but not cynical enough to capture what is really going on here.
A self-described Israeli Jew produces an attack on Islam and its founder that is as offensive as he can conceive. He is acting as classic provocateur. What he did is perfectly legal under US law and I would support his right to do it but it has a broader purpose than goes beyond simply the exercise of free speech. His motivation is simple and perfectly rational, by provoking an Arab response, even from a small minority of nuts, he makes Arabs look as irrational as possible to the U.S. public and he thereby helps the political and national causes that he holds most dearly.
One faction of Arabs takes the bait and tries to show that they are more godly than all of the other Arab factions in order to advance their own local political fortunes. In Libya, apparently pro-Gaddafi terrorists use these protests as a distraction to attack the U.S. embassy, with whom they are angry for obvious reasons.
Mitt steps in because he initially thinks he sees a way to advance his own political fortunes.
Everyone is acting rationally to advance their own self-interests, as they understand them.

The problem for us, as U.S. citizens, is that none of these useless f**kers is acting in our best interests. We don’t want to get embroiled in this region anymore than is absolutely necessary. Obama is appropriately distancing himself as much as he can from this tar pit. This is why Obama is a good president on foreign affairs and why Romney will repeat all of the idiocy that we got from Bush/Cheney.

No more crusades. We can’t afford them. We need to rebuild our industrial base, get our economy on track and avoid letting China become the world’s largest economy. The middle east is a useless distraction from our main goals. Obama understands this and wants out. Romney is clueless.

Quaestor said...

"A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it,the President apologizes to the killers and Republican idiots condemn Obama."

Still needs repair. The following is correct (as is the grammar, learn to use the semicolon):

"A Jew makes a film, a bad film, but it's his right to express his opinions this way; a Christian promotes it, as is his right under the Constitution; Muslim idiots kill over it;the idiot President apologizes to the killers thereby supplying a justification for their actions, and Republicans rightly condemn Obama's idiocy."

Matthew Sablan said...

You know, when people tried to goad me into fights in high school, I didn't fight them. In those cases, the people goading me were considered bullies. If I decked them, -I- would be in the wrong. It doesn't matter how much someone may provoke someone -- you have control over your actions. The murders fall squarely on the shoulders of the people who carried them out. End of discussion.

John Lynch said...

Matthew Sabian-

This isn't High School. People are dead.

Valentine Smith said...

Somewhere Daffy Ghadaffi is laughing his dead ass off at the Big Jughead 0. What goes round comes round.

The manchild simply loves chaos. He is his self-hating mother's son. The nomadic early life, no Big Sheikh in the household who could stand up to the castrating all-powerful MOMMY all adds up to a pussy-whipped, passive aggressive, identity-less cipher who projects and imposes on the world his insane childhood.

Matthew Sablan said...

Right. And the people who killed them? They are responsible. If people want us to hold anyone else responsible, they're wrong.

Likewise, if people want to earn respect and build a working society, not rioting and killing people who are in no way related to the offending speech is a good start.

The point is: These are basic things that we understand in our day to day lives that, for some reason, when we elevate it to a movie insulting a group of people, we forget that, hey, maybe killing people is an over reaction.

Matthew Sablan said...

"This isn't High School. People are dead."

-- Right; my point was that the people who killed them are responsible. Not the people who goaded them into it, who said things they did not like. I don't care -how- offensive bad art is. You don't get to kill people over it and then earn sympathy for being so offended murdering people unrelated to your hurt feelings seems prudent.

Quaestor said...

President Obama sez:
"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

Incorrect. I refer him to the Morrill Act of 1862, and the subsequent decision in Reynolds vs. the United States.

That's some jim-dandy Constitutional scholar we've got living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. No wonder he keeps his transcripts a top secret.

EMD said...

I suppose AReasonableMan blames Theo Van Gogh for his own murder, too.

EMD said...

Obama is appropriately distancing himself as much as he can from this tar pit.

You can run from history, but you cannot hide.

Balfegor said...

Re: Quaestor:

President Obama sez:
"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

Incorrect. I refer him to the Morrill Act of 1862, and the subsequent decision in Reynolds vs. the United States
.

That is, I think we may be confident, an error a Mormon would not have made.

MadisonMan said...

His statement would be better without the first two sentences. I'd also get rid of the word senseless.

These actions are not about religion, not at all. They're about thugs murdering people.

damikesc said...

What the hell? Reporters were caught on open mic coordinating questions for Romney?

What good is a media that cannot be trusted?

Matthew Sablan said...

If they are from the same network, the coordination isn't -as bad,- but I doubt they are.

damikesc said...

They didn't seem to be. Journolist is alive and well. The media can not be trusted.

Matthew Sablan said...

I wonder if anyone coordinates with Tapper to ensure damning questions are asked of Obama.

ampersand said...

"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."


Thomas Nast 1871

machine said...

"The miscalculation at work here is that Romney believed his “Apology Tour” method would neatly fit the events at hand — take an event that sort of vaguely resembled an Obama apology to Muslims who don’t like us, twist it around, and call it a day. But Romney had grown accustomed to spinning fantasies cobbled together from months-old Obama speeches and nurtured into legend by extensive repetition and exaggeration in the conservative subculture. What he failed to realize from the outset was that the embassy attack was an immediate, high-profile event that he could not hope to rewrite so brazenly. Forced to confront the yawning chasm between reality and the fantasy he had wallowed in so long, Romney was exposed and, justifiably, discredited."

Fantasy indeed.

damikesc said...

That'd require Obama to take questions.

Thank God Tucker Carlson stood by his guy who pissed off Obama by asking a question.

damikesc said...

How cute, machine citing somebody discredited. As usual.

Matthew Sablan said...

Machine: Using quotation marks isn't enough. Provide the source.

ampersand said...

"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

Tell that to the not so divine Emperor Hirohito

David said...

Shaun Smith, age 31, married with two children.

Mr. Smith was one of the three other Americans killed in the attack in Bengazhi.

n.n said...

I presume that exemption of Christians, and specifically Catholics, from denigration is implicit in his statement, or is he unaware of his own rhetoric and actions?

ampersand said...

"Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

I suppose Obama will be leading the sacking and burning of the Eugene O'neill Theatre

carrie said...

Does this mean that the Mormon jabs will stop now?

machine said...

and commence Flip/Flop in ten....


"Governor Romney rejects the reported message of the movie. There is no room for religious hatred or intolerance."

Matthew Sablan said...

Saying the movie is dumb as a private citizen is much, much different than when the force of government suggests you should stop saying something.

AReasonableMan said...

machine said...
and commence Flip/Flop in ten....

"Governor Romney rejects the reported message of the movie. There is no room for religious hatred or intolerance."


And who was it that described this useless f**k as an empty suit? Life is so unfair.

Real American said...

...unless those efforts at religious denigration are done by the HHS Secretary.

Unknown said...

The Atlantic can't even produce a timeline without editorializing to make Romney come off badly? Pathetic.

Misinforminimalism said...

The Atlantic can't even produce a timeline without editorializing to make Romney come off badly? Pathetic.

Balfegor said...

The Atlantic can't even produce a timeline without editorializing to make Romney come off badly? Pathetic.

It's from one of their bloggers (although she's also an editor). She doesn't even pretend to be objective -- none of them do -- so I'm fine with that.

furious_a said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

...translated as...

Thank you, sir! May I have another?!?

Joe said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

Speak for yourself; I think most religious beliefs should be denigrated. Moreover, if your religion is so shallow that it can't take denigration, it is so shallow it isn't worth believing in.

Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from criticism. Freedom of speech only reinforces this.

Incidentally the line "[s]ince our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths" is an historic crock of shit.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PackerBronco said...

Right now the ONLY response to the protestors who want an groveling apology is "F--- You"

We can wait for another day and time to wring our hands over the inappropriateness of some stupid movie.

AReasonableMan said...

Joe said...
Incidentally the line "[s]ince our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths" is an historic crock of shit.


You would prefer he said, "for the longest time the people of the United States of America believed the mormon religion to be a base evil, an apostasy so vile that we had to run them out of eastern states"?

Of course it's a crock of shit. One of the key jobs of politicians is to paper over our divisions and try to bring about a unity of purpose. Apparently Romney didn't get the memo.

PackerBronco said...

Blogger AReasonableMan said...
Joe said...

One of the key jobs of politicians is to paper over our divisions and try to bring about a unity of purpose. Apparently Romney didn't get the memo.

9/12/12 3:36 PM


Get out of your bubble. The one thing that Americans are united about today is to tell the protestors to F--- Off and NOT to apologize for one damn thing.

Romney understands that. The Obama Administration is struggling to undo the damage and distance themselves from statement made by THEIR people.

Revenant said...

One of the key jobs of politicians is to paper over our divisions and try to bring about a unity of purpose.

A pity we have a President who thinks that means "the American people will unite behind any idiotic statement I make".

Apparently Romney didn't get the memo.

Romney's remarks are much more in alignment with how Americans feel than Obama's are.

There weren't many Americans sitting around on the anniversary of 9/11 thinking "we should apologize to psychotic Muslims today".

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
furious_a said...

We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

So, since by their very existence on the planet they offend the religious beliefs of Salafists -- Jews, Copts, Shi'ites, Hindus, Dinkas, Ibos and Afghan girls on their way to school should just F*O*A*D.

AReasonableMan said...

Revenant said...
There weren't many Americans sitting around on the anniversary of 9/11 thinking "we should apologize to psychotic Muslims today".


No one said they should. I would point out, once again, that it was Obama, not Bush/Cheney, who actually managed to avenge that attack.

AReasonableMan said...

PackerBronco said...
Romney understands that. The Obama Administration is struggling to undo the damage and distance themselves from statement made by THEIR people.


How do you know it wasn't a Bush/Cheney hire. Neither of them exactly covered themselves in glory under fire.

Pastafarian said...

President Obama: "We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

Well, shit. I guess I have to come up with a new screen name, before President Constitutional Law Professor hits me with a drone for my speech-crime.

When did they pass that law, anyway? Is it part of the 2800 page Affordable Care Act?

Sigivald said...

"We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

We?

Well, the US as a National Entity as represented by its government does reject those efforts, true*.

But the idea - that one could easily get from the President's words - that we as individuals and Americans reject those as Wrong In And Of Themselves, is untenable.

(* Those that might take exception to this are invited to show me when the US has done that, pretty much ever. It just isn't what the Federal government does.

Which is quite right, as a matter of Constitutional law; start smacking down foreigners for their religious beliefs and next thing you know you're doing it domestically, and it's none of the State's god-damn business.)

What was missing from the President's speech, however, was something along the lines of "I have directed the State Department to instruct the Marines guarding our embassies to shoot trespassers and attackers on sight, to deter any repeats of the violence I just declaimed".

Nothing stops people from storming your embassy like overlapping machinegun fire.

edutcher said...

The trolls are sounding desperate.

I can't say as how I blame them.

This is turning into a bad day for the Lefties.

And, lessee, Zero's on his way to a fund-raiser in Sin City.

Heckuva job there, Barky.

machine said...

It certainly takes guts to release a statement falsely attacking the President DURING an attack on Americans.


all politics, all the time, eh?

kcom said...

"We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others."

Seriously? Half the Democratic Party lives to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.

dreams said...

What pitiful excuse we have for a president and I continue to have contempt for you liberal dumb-asses who voted for him.

AReasonableMan said...

edutcher said...
This is turning into a bad day for the Lefties.


In your dreams, baby, in your dreams. This useless empty suit has managed to piss off pretty much everyone today. He certainly pissed me off, and I'm no leftist.

kcom said...

"I'm no leftist"

And, despite your attempt at claiming so, there is absolutely nothing that is "reasonable" about you. You're a consistently knee-jerk, anti-Republican, anti-Romney commenter. How is it news that he purportedly managed to piss you off? It would be news if you claimed that he didn't. You're a one-note Johnny.

He didn't piss me off and plenty of others feel the same. What pissed me off is the pathetic excuse for a press corps we have nowadays. They can't see past their own nose to actually serve their country by doing their job in an evenhanded manner. They're so focused on serving themselves, and getting what they want, that they've abdicated all claim to any moral authority in informing the nation on important events. Seriously, was Romney really the biggest story of the day? An ambassador is dead, for God's sakes, and Romney had zero responsibility for that whatsoever.

AReasonableMan said...

You're a one-note Johnny.

No. I dislike a lot of politicians. But today I am really angry with only one. What a useless f**ker Romney has proven to be. Neither the right or the left likes this guy. It's only hard core Republicans that are willing to support this prick. If you aren't a partisan he looks like the most opportunistic leech that has walked the political stage since Clinton. You can bag on Obama as much as you like but at the end of the day the guy actually stands for something. What the f**k does Romney stand for? When this prick finally gets a spine he can start criticizing our president.

Revenant said...

No one said they should.

Of course you did. You're demanding that we unite behind Obama's little "waah, someone said something mean about Mohammed, that's un-American" spiel.

I would point out, once again, that it was Obama, not Bush/Cheney, who actually managed to avenge that attack.

I take it you're one of those people who thinks of bin Laden as some sort of supervillain solely responsible for 9/11. The world's not as simplistic as you'd like it to be. :)

edutcher said...

machine said...

It certainly takes guts to release a statement falsely attacking the President DURING an attack on Americans.


all politics, all the time, eh?


Democrats would NEVER do that to a Republican President, would they?

What was Barry's big selling point about Iraq again?

"I was against it fii-irst, I was against it fii-irst".

AReasonableMan said...

This is turning into a bad day for the Lefties.

In your dreams, baby, in your dreams. This useless empty suit has managed to piss off pretty much everyone today. He certainly pissed me off,


Zero has shown his true incompetence, I agree.

and I'm no leftist.

Sure, and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn.

Quaestor said...

AReasonableMan wrote:
You would prefer he said, "for the longest time the people of the United States of America believed the mormon religion to be a base evil, an apostasy so vile that we had to run them out of eastern states"?

A false dichotomy (what else may one expect from that troll?)

I would rather he said something along these lines: You invaded our embassy? You tore down our flag? A few months ago you guys mused about razing the Pyramids as a monument to what you hold sacred, how about we raze Cairo as a monument to what we hold sacred, the First Amendment.

He should have said nothing about religion. No president should. Religion is not a matter of which a president of the United States has any competency, thank god. He should not condemn Islam (though it is condemnable). He should not praise Islam, nor hail it as a "religion of peace" (we have Bush to thank for that stupidity). This is a political matter only. An act of war has been committed against the sovereign territory of the United States. The Iranians got away with it thanks to the great and wonderful Jimah Cahrtuh. That worked out just peachy didn't it? Now the Egyptians have pulled off another embassy raid, and they're going to get away with it as well, thanks to Jimah's tar-baby.

Ahmadinejad is planning to fly into New York over Yom Kippur (a week from next Tuesday) to let loose another anti-Semitic tirade in the UN General Assembly. I strongly advise that this country is under no obligation to allow him in. His country has shown itself to be contemptuous of normal diplomacy, therefore he should not be granted the courtesies normal diplomats and heads of state enjoy. Deny his plane landing rights. If they land anyway surround the plane with tanks and shoot anyone who tries to exit. Round up every Iranian diplomat is the US and deport their asses (deport them in handcuffs and orange perp suits just for giggles) They should be forced to phone in their UN votes and speeches until such time as they issue a formal apology for the seizure of our Tehran embassy and the kidnapping of our diplomats and embassy staff, and they must also deliver every one of the hostage takers to American justice. Then they can come back.

Calypso Facto said...

This useless empty suit has managed to piss off pretty much everyone today.

Yes, Obama has! That's what you meant, right? If not, you need to get outside your little lefty circle jerk and talk to a broader range of people. Here at my office, even normally apolitical people are talking about being outraged by the murders AND the Obama administration's apologies. Romney looks like a Cold War Reagan incarnate, by comparison.

He certainly pissed me off, and I'm no leftist. Yes you are. You prove it here daily, in a particularly hackish, partisan way.

AReasonableMan said...

Quaestor said...
AReasonableMan wrote:
You would prefer he said, "for the longest time the people of the United States of America believed the mormon religion to be a base evil, an apostasy so vile that we had to run them out of eastern states"?

A false dichotomy (what else may one expect from that troll?)



As far as I can tell on this forum the term troll means anyone who is not a card-carrying republican. Get a life, not all of us are going to walk in lock-step with the Fox/RNC industrial complex.

Paul said...

No good deed goes unpunished in the Obama administration.

And that is why he died. Bet the CIA warned Obama while he was playing Golf and just could not be bothered.

Obama now makes Jimmy Carter look good in BOTH domestic and foreign policy. Seems to get his ideas from Loony Cooney.

And what will Obama do, send dronekillers and Hellfire missiles? Two bit sanctions?

Heck I bet he pissed in his pants when he heard about it. And his first thought was... BLAME BUSH.

Quaestor said...

AReasonableMan wrote:
Get a life...

You first. I called you a troll, and such you are. Trolls deal in false dichotomies, false dilemmas, ad hominem, ad hominem tu quoque, appeals to authority and belief, appeals to fear and emotion, begging the question, post hoc, relativist fallacies, and loaded statistics. Exclude your fallacies and you have written nothing on these pages -- ergo, troll you were and troll you remain.

Greg said...

Freedom of religion is a fundamental value. Religious tolerance s a fundamental value. Silence in the face of religious beliefs one believes to be evil is not -- look at the attacks on Catholics for standing up to Obama's birth control mandate - for just one mild example of how such denigration of beliefs isn't held to be a fundamental value by Obama and his minions.

chickelit said...

So just who is this "AReasonbaleMan"?

Why does the same asshole always post here using different voices or accents but always saying "I and I alone represent reason"?

It is so so, tiresome. So phony. So disingenuous.

Memo Cordova said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickelit said...

My reading of the timeline:

Romney and Hillary say first what the American people want to hear. POTUS first says what the rest of the world wants to hear. Then POTUS double speaks because he catches domestic political flak.

Another data point in the Carterizing of Obama. See Iran, 1979.

wef said...

I for one would suggest that denigrating the religious beliefs of superstitious religious fruitcakes should be a civic duty. (Sorry for that redundancy.)

Seriously, this is absurdly simple. If someone believes that divine revelation excuses coercion of any sort - to prevent blasphemy, for example, or to enforce minimum wage laws, and so on - then that person is not only a fool, but a creep as an individual and dangerous in a herd.

BarryD said...

"But the idea - that one could easily get from the President's words - that we as individuals and Americans reject those as Wrong In And Of Themselves, is untenable."

It's also so laughably false that I don't know where to start.

Americans THRIVE on denigrating religious beliefs in all sorts of ways. Whether it's Sarah Silverman singing Amazing Grace in 3 part harmony using her mouth, anus and vagina, or a fundamentalist preacher talking about how mainline Protestants are "lukewarm" and headed straight to hell, that's one of America's pastimes on every level.

How about, "If you can't take a joke, well fuck you. Here comes a squadron of B2s loaded with fuel-air bombs. That's one of America's other pastimes. See you in hell, bitches!"

If we stand for nothing, then what's the point of having a country like America at all?

Big Mike said...

Thoughts

(1) As a matter of practicality it's impossible to censor everything that's out there. Any idiot with a used video camera can make a movie unfavorable to Islam. How would the US stop them all without resorting to controls so onerous as to replace the American system of governance with something more akin to Germany in the 1930's or the Soviet Union between from the start of Lenin's reign to the end of Gorbachev's.

(2) I was against censorship back when the network censors drove the Smothers Brothers off the air. I don't see any reason to change my position just because Arab Muslims keep looking for a reason to riot.

(3) Why is the President not calling the Egyptian and Libyan ambassadors to the White House for a tongue lashing? Is that not the very minimum he should do?

(4) There seems to be quite a bit of video of the two incidents. He needs to follow through with the Libyan government to make d*mned sure that the perpetrators really are brought to justice.

(5) And right after he chews out to be a very public disciplining of whomever in the US Foreign Service released the first statement.

(6) If Obama thought the Libyan people would be grateful for our assistance overthrowing Gaddafi then he was very sorely mistaken. Keep in mind that Obama got us into Libya on his own hook and without consulting Congress, and moreover he kept us in there in plain violation of the War Powers Act. Now there's a dead ambassador who should be on Obama's conscience. If he had one.

Memo Cordova said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wef said...

Denigration it is - muslim edition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvvTOzzQBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xwPVgRaROA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPEbRSjnuEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFZE1R1gwiU

AReasonableMan said...

chickelit said...
So just who is this "AReasonbaleMan"?

Why does the same asshole always post here using different voices or accents but always saying "I and I alone represent reason"?

It is so so, tiresome. So phony. So disingenuous.


Yet so reasonable that you fail to come up with one counter argument.

Quaestor said...

AReasonableMan wrote:
Yet so reasonable that you fail to come up with one counter argument.

Ninny, you haven't made an argument to counter.

AReasonableMan said...

Quaestor said...
AReasonableMan wrote:
Yet so reasonable that you fail to come up with one counter argument.

Ninny, you haven't made an argument to counter.


I made a quite comprehensive critique of Romney's performance as an American over the last 24 hours. Why don't you defend him.

Quaestor said...

AReasonableMan wrote:
I made a quite comprehensive critique of Romney's performance as an American over the last 24 hours. Why don't you defend him.

Batherskite, he needs no defense from the likes of your jejune nonsense.

MayBee said...

Let's compare this to the pro-America protests that happened in Lebanon a few years ago.

Paco Wové said...

"I made a quite comprehensive critique of Romney's performance..."

"...useless f**ker... this prick... opportunistic leech... ...f**k... prick..."

Yes, a veritable beacon of reason and light.

AReasonableMan said...

Apparently Quaestor and Paco Wové think it is just fine for Romney to inject partisan politics into this tragedy in a fundamentally dishonest fashion and rather than defend their position they indulge in childish name calling. Of course normal people are angry with Romney, only the partisan hacks can't see that he crossed a line that should not have been crossed.

Romney has drawn rebukes from his own party, including John Sununu and Peggy Noonan, neither of whom are known as liberals. You have have to be very deep in the hole to not realize just how off-key Romney's comments were.

Many people live in a fantasy world regarding Obama, fed on diet of Drudge, Fox and Limbaugh and lose track of the fact that he is sanest and most reasonable leader we have had since George Herbert Bush, another politician who has been relentlessly vilified by the no nothings in the Republican party.

You two need to grow up and deal with reality not your childish little fantasies about Obama and much or the rest of the world.

MayBee said...

No, Obama's doing great. There is nothing to question or criticize going on right now. Romney should figure out the right time to question the administration, hopefully when no Americans are in danger of dying while they are hunkered down in our embassies, which are under attack.

damikesc said...

Obama, most reasonable leader since Bush St?

BWA HA HA HA!

Can we rename you AnInsaneMan instead?

Salamandyr said...

Funny, I don't recall the press holding Kerry to this standard back in 2004