September 12, 2012

"Rahm Emanuel Should Go All Ronald Reagan On Chicago's Teachers Union."

The most famous Rahm Emanuel quote is: “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” 
In this case, Emanuel has a unique opportunity to reform the entire Chicago public school system, ensuring that children get a quality education in a district where only 56 percent of students even graduate. If he is nimble, he can easily leverage this situation.

The students themselves provide a ready-made prop for Emanuel to announce that if the teachers do not return to work immediately, they will be replaced. Simply call together a press conference with out-of-school students standing in the background in solidarity, and the politics will take care of itself.

103 comments:

EMD said...

I don't see that happening, but that would be awesome.

Kevin said...

No way. Unlike the Clintons, who could pull this kind of thing off without a sweat, this motley bunch are actually Believers.

Shouting Thomas said...

Well, except for that small matter of needing teachers' union, and other union, votes, this is a great idea!

Island Court said...

I agree. Was, in fact, thinking the same thing. They have handed Rahm a wonderful opportunity to clean house and start anew.

But I doubt the ballet dancer will grasp this opportunity.

Aridog said...

I proposed precisely that here a couple of days ago...e.g., it would immediately create 21,000 to 26,000 "new" jobs in Chicago. Viola'...job creation at its best, eh?

However, I'm not sure if Illinois law vis a vis public sector unions, has an enforceable no-strike provision. Anyone who knows, please comment.

President Reagan had that advantage when he fired all the striking ATC's and hired new ones.

Scott M said...

I had honestly never heard Emanuel's voice before last night when he was on the news talking about strikes of choice.

THIS was the wimpy little man shoving his finger into faces while naked in a shower? Trying to come up with a less threatening image requires quite a bit of imagination.

Shouting Thomas said...

And, I should add... the Dems are also pretty addicted to the campaign contributions from the teachers' union.

gerry said...

According to the U.S. Dept. Of Education, only 20% of Chicago's 8th graders can read like they are 8th graders!

Slaves weren't allowed to read, and what is the predominantly-white Chicago's teacher's union doing to its predominantly-black student population?

The cost of living in Chicago is about 21% higher than the U.S. on average, butthe teachers wanted a 30% pay hike?

bagoh20 said...

If he had the courage, yes he could become a hero. It would require a complete reversal of ideology though.

There is no union of public employees more ripe to made into monsters, because they already are. Ugly, corrupt, greedy, and selfish. Do it, dude! Be somebody. Make a stand. You will never have a better time, or more perfect dragon to slay.

Kevin said...

"Rahm Emanuel Should Go All Ronald Reagan On Chicago's Teachers Union."

I'll vote for Rhambo for President if he does that.

Of course, he never will - the teachers unions run the Democratic Party, which is why the CTU thinks that they can get away with blackmailing Rahm and Obama in the middle of a Presidential campaign.

ndspinelli said...

The air traffic controllers had a no strike clause in their contract. That's what gave Reagan the legal and moral authority to fire them. I would love to see all these entitled teachers shitcanned, but I don't believe they have a no strike clause. We are a nation of laws.

Marshal said...

The article would make more sense if it discussed the legality of firing the teachers. Without that discussion we're cheering the unicorn jousting.

Kevin said...

"I would love to see all these entitled teachers shitcanned, but I don't believe they have a no strike clause."

That's true. In Chicago, teachers can strike, but cops can't.

Mike said...

I don't think the situations are comparable. The air traffic controllers strike was *illegal*. This strike, as much as I oppose it, it perfectly legal.

Shouting Thomas said...

I don't think that public school teachers are monsters.

To understand what they have to endure, read this bit from Steve Sailer...

The Racism of Peanut Butter and Jelly.

You have to eat a lot of shit to be a public school teacher. I'm not saying that this justifies the strike. And, the pay and benefits are superb.

But, you do have to eat a lot of shit. And, yes, I know that we all have to eat shit at our jobs.

Tank said...

What role did the teachers' union play in Emanual's election?

Public Employee Unions. The more you think about it, the more you know ...

WE ARE DOOMED.

It's teh stupid. It hurts.

Matthew Sablan said...

I think Rahm could do it -- it wouldn't harm the D's nationwide, but it would be the end of his career, unless he flipped to I or R. He won't go R, but I couldn't see him turning to an I, he has too many enemies in his own camp and made no friends in Team Red to give him bipartisan credentials, though standing up to the unions -might- be enough to earn him some goodwill.

If he takes such a drastic step, and it somehow doesn't get derailed by the rest of the party machine, he'd show some real fortitude.

EMD said...

If Cuomo can be Scott Walker-lite without a peep from the media and his own party, maybe there's room for Rahm to work independently on this.

Roger J. said...

I have to confess to a certain amount of schadenfrude with Mr Emmanual's situation. Easy to be chief of staff with no real responsibility. Much more difficult to be the excutive when the shit hits the fan. And I suspect, were the president to be smart (an increasingly doubtful assumption) he will not become involved in Chicago politics. Rahm will find out how those bus wheels feel.

Kony Sabbai said...

Just get rid of teachers' unions altogether. All they do is reward bad teachers and penalize the good ones. Abolish all the teacher unions; and, the good teachers will remain. The good teachers are the only ones serious about student success. Unlike the bad ones who only want to do as little as possible for the students in order to get their paychecks and benefits. =/

Shouting Thomas said...

You guys might want to read Althouse's bit about Dylan earlier this morning, because, together with this post, the economic problem is just about summarized.

Nobody in their right mind wants to live in an economy like that exemplified by the music biz. It's just too fucking brutal. All out Wild West capitalism is what everybody wants to escape.

No criticism of Althouse intended, but her own personal job situation is as far removed from this as you can get. She's fixed for life and insured against all risks, except for death.

The teachers' union exemplifies the other extreme from the music biz, which is absolute insurance from all risk once you achieve tenure, except (once again) death.

The trick is to find the balance between Wild West capitalism and a system that insures everybody at some level from risk.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Aridog,

I proposed precisely that here a couple of days ago...e.g., it would immediately create 21,000 to 26,000 "new" jobs in Chicago. Viola'...job creation at its best, eh?

Hey, as a violist, I'm all for tens of thousands of new jobs for violists, but I don't see where they're coming from.

:-) (if necessary)

garage mahal said...

People earning 250k are part of the struggling middle class. Raising their taxes would be just like kicking liberty square in the balls.

But, a teacher earning 50k is excessive, greedy, and corrupt.

Why do Republicans with kids want the absolute worst teachers and environment for them?

Matthew Sablan said...

Lowering everyone's taxes is different from raising everyone's taxes to raise some people's wages.

Try again.

Shouting Thomas said...

garage,

Chicago teachers are earning on average $76,000!

You might try honesty. Doesn't hurt.

That means that teachers with 10 to 20 years experience are making very big bucks!

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
People earning 250k are part of the struggling middle class


Nice strawman, idiot.

Why do Republicans with kids want the absolute worst teachers and environment for them?

Um, "Republicans" aren't the ones against teacher evaluations.

Unions are.

Idiot.

Thorley Winston said...

Agreed with the previous posters that the two situations aren’t comparable because (a) the air traffic controllers had a “no strike” provision in their contract and it doesn’t appear that the Chicago teachers have such a provision and (b) without the legal authority to fire them and make it stick, Emmanuel is only guaranteeing that the rest of his party (which relies on public employee unions) would turn on him in a heartbeat.


Colonel Angus said...

I have to confess to a certain amount of schadenfrude with Mr Emmanual's situation. Easy to be chief of staff with no real responsibility. Much more difficult to be the excutive when the shit hits the fan.

I'm sure Obama feels his pain.

Aridog said...

Michelle Dulak Thomson ...Dang! Preview is my friend, when I use it....you caught me on voilĂ '...I really do know better...I even like violinists :-))

PS: If I ever used a sock puppet you'd know it was me by the frequency of "becasue" ...that is my key identifier...and has been for 50 plus years. I cannot cure it. I blame it on genetics!! Or bad Choom from the 60's.

Eustace Chilke said...

I figure that as far as political fallout goes, Rahmbo hasn't got much at risk. Where are the teacher's unions going to go? To the Republicans? If he's got the nuts and the leverage to slap them in the mouth today he will still be able to count on them tomorrow. Just like a dog that's been kicked. They know where their meal ticket is.

garage mahal said...

Um, "Republicans" aren't the ones against teacher evaluations.

The school Emmanuel sends his kids too are against the sort of evals he is enforcing now.

Idiot.

Matthew Sablan said...

The biggest problem isn't that the union will go elsewhere, but that the money won't come in, which in turn means there are fewer dollars to woo undecideds and ramp up your base turnout in the election.

Matthew Sablan said...

"The school Emmanuel sends his kids too are against the sort of evals he is enforcing now."

-- So? Parents should have the ability to send their kids to the schools of their choosing. If Rahm is OK with teachers at the school he sent his kids to go to, I don't care. When it comes to teachers paid for out of tax dollars though, then I do care.

Roger J. said...

Colonel Angus: after the sad events in North Africa, I am sure Mr Obama is feeling his pain--except the stakes are much higher, and we are rudderless and under the "leadership" of twits.

Unknown said...

"fire them all" seems to be the most common post on all blogs I've seen. at least once in a while you saw a pro-teacher post in Wisconsin. I see NOTHING, zip, zero, na-da support for the unions this time. I can't believe he offered 16%, he should be offering -5% or -10%.

Colonel Angus said...

The school Emmanuel sends his kids too are against the sort of evals he is enforcing now.

I can't help but remember the scene in Ghostbusters when Dan Akroyd lamented having to work in the private sector where they expect results.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...


The school Emmanuel sends his kids too are against the sort of evals he is enforcing now.


Complete & utter bullshit.

Matthew Sablan said...

It could be a negotiating tactic. When you know someone will be stubborn, you offer them a ridiculously good deal. The deal offered was jaw-droppingly awesome. They refused.

It is now clear that you are not dealing with rational actors on the other side of the table, which clears the field for you to take some pretty big steps. It's a lot like what Walker did.

elkh1 said...

"if the teachers do not return to work immediately, they will be replaced" with iPads and the Khan Academy.

trumpetdaddy said...

And Rahm's political party opposes poor parents functionally having the choice to send their kids to schools like that which his own kids attend.

Because we can't ever take any taxpayer money away from teachers' unions and the administrators they control.

And we certainly can't expect schools paid for by taxpayer funds to ever allow the taxpayers to exert any control over the quality of the education their money is paying for, either.

Aridog said...

Curiosity: Under Illinois and/or Chicago law does Mayor Rahm Emanuel have sufficient authority to just plain close all Chicago public schools...for a year at least? Does the fact Chacogo hasn't the funds to pay the teachers demands enough?

Just say, okay, no agreement, we're closed, locked and shuttered. See ya'! Enjoy your lockout. No free breakfasts either, no nuttin', no how, no way. Closed. Period.

How long would no pay for the CTA and angry parents (presuming there'd be any)who earn considerably less than 70K+ per year would force the union rank and file to reconsider?

Just asking....Illinois is a place I truly do not understand.

bagoh20 said...

ST,

It seems to me that the problem with the music business is not capitalism, but rather that music just has too much supply even with the incredible demand. What other industry has so many suppliers, with new "startups" appearing by the thousands every year. Even if a new startup sucks, they can be made into a star pretty easily and with little respect to the things that in other industries take time, investment, and hard work.

On the other hand working hard, and making the investment, has relatively little chance of making you successful. It's not an industry based on quality, or innovation. That fact means it will always feel unfair and cutthroat. I can't imagine regulation that would make music better, until the customers want better. The industry can't ask for truth in labeling or, UL quality assurance. The customers just get what they want, period.

Today you can pretty easily market yourself just like any other supplier, and even easier since no material product needs to be produced, shipped and warrantied.

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...
People earning 250k are part of the struggling middle class. Raising their taxes would be just like kicking liberty square in the balls.

But, a teacher earning 50k is excessive, greedy, and corrupt.

Why do Republicans with kids want the absolute worst teachers and environment for them?


When someone has to invent such extreme accusations and lie about the basic facts it should be understood as an admission his side is completely wrong on the subject.

The average teacher salary is 76k, the average household income paying taxes to support those wages is 47k.

dreams said...

He won't do that. The reason he won't is because he doesn't have the courage to do it for he is your typical Dem politician. The politicians that ignorant liberals and other uninformed voters have spent their entire lives voting for.

Carol said...

Yeah, I'd say demonizing the teachers' union works well for the right. Used to do it myself, until I came to understand what these *urban* schools were really like.

But this way, no one really has to confront the truth.

cubanbob said...

Assuming that there is no no strike provision ( no doubt idiot democrats are responsible for that) Rahm could go rogue and have all of the Chicago Public Schools converted in to charter schools. The teachers can strike till hell freezes over and it won't mean a thing.

garage mahal said...

Complete & utter bullshit.

Director of Private School Where Rahm Sends His Kids Opposes Using Testing for Teacher Evaluations

Writing on the University of Chicago’s Lab School website two years ago, Magill noted, “Measuring outcomes through standardized testing and referring to those results as the evidence of learning and the bottom line is, in my opinion, misguided and, unfortunately, continues to be advocated under a new name and supported by the current [Obama] administration.”

You ever tire of getting your ass handed to you?

edutcher said...

Aridog said...

I proposed precisely that here a couple of days ago...e.g., it would immediately create 21,000 to 26,000 "new" jobs in Chicago. Viola'...job creation at its best, eh?

However, I'm not sure if Illinois law vis a vis public sector unions, has an enforceable no-strike provision. Anyone who knows, please comment.


Teachers have the right to strike in IL.

They were talking about it on FBN yesterday.

Shouting Thomas said...

Yeah, I'd say demonizing the teachers' union works well for the right. Used to do it myself, until I came to understand what these *urban* schools were really like.

There's something to what you say. CPS teachers are assigned to dealing with the garbage.

But, their campaign contributions to the Democrats create the garbage with welfare handouts and the dependency that creates.

It's an eternal loop.

Jay said...

Note:

While Magill could not be reached for direct comment on the specifics of the Chicago Teachers’ strike, his past writings on the school's site suggest he might be supportive.

Of course something written two years ago is entirely true and has not changed in garagie land.

Also in garagie land: pretending private schools aren't more accountable than public schools.

Idiot garagie can't grasp such concepts.

Idiot garagie will carry on in such stupidity.

Mike makes right said...

Carol, demonizing teacher unions is not the same thing as demonizing teachers. Where's the nuance?

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

You ever tire of getting your ass handed to you?


Nice projection.

Jay said...

Carol said...

But this way, no one really has to confront the truth.


If it is so hard & awful, why don't they quit?

cubanbob said...

Best way to solve the urban school problem is to reform welfare. Now that the democrats have made age 26 the new age of majority, simply disallow direct welfare benefits to those under 26 and require a high school degree or equivelant as a condition of being eligible for welfare. Change the incentives and you change behavior.

If this strike continues and other public sector unions go on strike what an opening for President Romney and the next republican congress to pass a national right to work act.

Rusty said...

Director of Private School Where Rahm Sends His Kids Opposes Using Testing for Teacher Evaluations




ironic, no?

Matthew Sablan said...

Not ironic at all. How a private school handles itself is in no way related to how whether or not we should hold public employees accountable.

bagoh20 said...

"Yeah, I'd say demonizing the teachers' union works well for the right. Used to do it myself, until I came to understand what these *urban* schools were really like."

There are private schools and experimentals around the country including inner city that have shown that it can be done much better at much lower cost.

The problem did not originate with the kids, it was created by the corrupt uncaring, selfish acts of unions, and Democrat politicians over decades where they systematically robbed the population and their kids of, money, discipline, vision, and promise in order to hold on to money, power and their own security.

Teachers and citizens who supported that are responsible. The only ones who are not responsible are the kids who are paying the most for it. They were born into that system with no choice. It's gonna take some brave individuals prepared for martyrdom to fix it now. Where are they? Who's gonna back them?

bagoh20 said...

"If it is so hard & awful, why don't they quit?"

Exactly! In fact, you could lose your arm trying to get that bone away from them. You judge by people's actions - not what they say.

EMD said...

the average household income paying taxes to support those wages is 47k.

Is that in the districts? If so, that's a problem.

EMD said...

“Measuring outcomes through standardized testing and referring to those results as the evidence of learning and the bottom line is, in my opinion, misguided and, unfortunately, continues to be advocated under a new name and supported by the current [Obama] administration.”

I actually agree with this to a degree. What you end up with often times is teachers teaching to a specific type of test rather than investing students in knowledge.

That's why I favor local control over schooling (even more local than city-wide like Chicago).

EMD said...

But I'm also not opposed to developing real teacher evaluation standards that go beyond a standardized test score to expansive grade-based evaluations.

Bryan C said...

"Yeah, I'd say demonizing the teachers' union works well for the right. Used to do it myself, until I came to understand what these *urban* schools were really like."

The teachers unions have placed themselves in this position of power and responsibility. And they refuse to get out of the way, even when it's clear they're unable to make things better and quite probably are making things much worse.

They deserve everything they get, and more. Teachers of good conscience should be publicizing the problems they face in urban schools, changing union policies, or leaving the unions in droves. Why isn't this happening?

Levi Starks said...

"The students themselves provide a ready-made prop for Emanuel to announce that if the teachers do not return to work immediately, they will be replaced. Simply call together a press conference with out-of-school students standing in the background in solidarity, and the politics will take care of itself."

Only one problem with this idea, the students are on the teachers side. They're getting a free education, and appearantly their civics class (or whatever they call it nowadays hasn't gotten around to explaining where the money comes from.

bagoh20 said...

The average college graduate Chicagoan only makes $48K. About 65% of the average teacher. And the benefits, and the short work year, and all the holidays. It's an abomination.

Colonel Angus said...

An average salary of $76k is pretty good, well above the national average. Pooh poohing a 16% raise does smack a bit if greed, particularly when its coming from the pockets of folks who likely don't make $76k a year.

If you want to make a lot of money, don't be a teacher, firefighter or policeman. Instead be a lawyer, doctor or start your own business. I'll assume people become teachers because they want to educate children. If its because they want even higher than national average wages I suggest you find another occupation.

Private school teachers are often paid much less than their public school counterparts and deliver higher quality outcomes. So if $76k per year isn't enough, then the Chicago kids are being screwed in more ways than one.

garage mahal said...

An average salary of $76k is pretty good, well above the national average.

Curious what your source is for that figure. BLS says something different.

Peter said...

" a teacher earning 50k is excessive, greedy, and corrupt."

It's not just that most Chicago teachers make more than that, or that benefits cost almost as much as wages.

In the words of (the not exactly conservative) Chicago Tribune editorial board, "This strike is not only — or even mostly — about money. It is about who controls schools and classrooms, and about the future of vital school reforms"

That is, it's about whether de-facto control of the school system belongs to the Union, or to the People's elected representatives.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-11/news/ct-edit-strike-0911-jm-20120911_1_cps-teachers-cps-offer-chicago-teachers-union

Ken said...

To all those who think this is true:

Director of Private School Where Rahm Sends His Kids Opposes Using Testing for Teacher Evaluations

You are fooling yourselves. Guess what Rahm can do if he is unsatisfied with the school that regular tax payers cannot? He can remove his kids from those schools, which results in lower revenue for the school. When customers have the choice to buy one product over another, evaluations are occurring ALL THE TIME.

Guess what happens when public schools start failing: more funding.

Who are the idiots that thought up that incentive? Fail and get more money? You do realize that you are incentivizing failure don't you?

Marshal said...

Colonel Angus said...
An average salary of $76k is pretty good, well above the national average.


The 76k is also before benefits. Teachers' lavish pension benefits far exceed private company benefits and is also the primary cause of the looming Illinois fiscal disaster. Their compensation is much better even than this statistic shows.

garage mahal said...

The 76k is also before benefits

okay. Source?

Alex said...

garage - I wouldn't want one of those fat angry bulldykes teaching children.

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...
An average salary of $76k is pretty good, well above the national average.

Curious what your source is for that figure. BLS says something different.


Why don't you post your source for the 250k figure you posted earlier? Or do you want to admit that since you didn't claim it was represenatative of anything you shouldn't have to? Of course that would mean nothing you write ever means anything, but everyone here already knows that anyway.

Ken said...

garage,

The source is the Chicago Public Schools spokesman.

Dante said...

Garage,

The median household income in Chicago is $38,625 according to the 2010 US census.

The average teacher's income is North of $70K, and that's not including all the benes, like pensions.

I wanted to find the actual number of workdays the average Chicago teacher spends, but didn't find it handy. Maybe 200 compared to 240, if we are being generous, so there that $73K increases by say 18%. These teachers are very well compensated compared to the surrounding populace.

Furthermore, pensions in Chicago increase @ 3% per year, and is 75% of the average highest four year salary in the last 10 years. Plus they get health care. That's for 35 years of service, so a person starting at age 22 gets to retire at 57. Let's say they live to 80, that's 23 years of pension money. Assuming it's 1% over inflation, they will be getting their inflation adjusted highest salary.

Compare this to the poor private sector slob who pays 14.4% into Social Security, might get back their money IF they are lucky. Social Security used to have an estimator for retirement benefits, but it seems to be gone. So for the median wage earner, I can't imagine they would get more than $20K per year, if they are only making $36K. And they retire at 67.

So saying they live to 80, they get 13 years of retirement, presumably worked at least 240 days a year for say 45 years. They make $1.785M during their life, including SSEC benefits.

The Chicago teacher makes $2.6M for working 35 years and about 80% of the public worker, and if they work 45 years, they make $3.29M. In the case of early retirement, they get roughly 1.47M in retirement money, assuming they retire at the AVERAGE rate (which is of course, not going to be the case), for a total of $4M earned in a lifetime, in addition to other benefits.

Don't you think this sucks? Can't you see why Chicago is going bankrupt?

Why do you think this is OK? Can you tax the rich enough, and why should THESE people deserve that tax?

exhelodrvr1 said...

bagoh,
"he problem did not originate with the kids, it was created by the corrupt uncaring, selfish acts of unions, and Democrat politicians over decades where they systematically robbed the population and their kids of, money, discipline, vision, and promise in order to hold on to money, power and their own security."

That's just part of the problem - the real issue is the lack of parental involvement, frequently due to the lack of parents, in public schools, particularly the urban one. Can't touch that third rail, though, because that would be racist.

Patrick said...

Garage:

Some of that salary has to go to pension contributions. Teachers are required to contribute 9 percent of their salary to their pensions, and support personnel must contribute 8.5 percent, as opposed to 6.2 percent if they were part of the Social Security system. But the Chicago Public Schools system pays for 7 percent of the employee contribution. So the more relevant comparison is a 1.5 to 2 percent contribution for CPS employees compared to 6.2 percent for private sector workers paying Social Security tax. So the median after-pension income is $66,614, which a private sector employee on Social Security would need to earn $71,017 a year to make. So a median of $71,017 (or a mean of $77,560) is the most relevant number for comparing Chicago public school teachers to other workers.

The Union had been throwing around a figure of $56K, but that reflected teachers in the Chicago metro area, not just CPS.

This from WAPO blogger Dylan Matthews, of whom I know nothing, but his post links a pdf of CPS salary info.

Link

I've read the $76K figure several times in the Chicago Tribune, and elsewhere.

Michael said...

The CPS produces outcomes similar to schools in rural Mississippi. Not good. How anyone can defend them is beyond me

Rahm would be the next president for sure if he pulled a Reagan. I well remember the air traffic controllers predicting air crashes, massive delays, total chaos if they were fired.

They were fired. And replaced. And all went very smoothly and safely. It was glorious.

Michael said...

Garage. http://www.ctunet.com/grievances/text/2007-2012-CPS-CTU-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement.pdf?1294199486
This is the bargaining agreement. Very interesting reading if you are interested in how interested the teachers are in children.

Colonel Angus said...

The Union had been throwing around a figure of $56K, but that reflected teachers in the Chicago metro area, not just CPS.

$56k is hardly poverty level wages for roughly 8 months of work.

Aridog said...

A source for Chicago teachers versus the nation overall...HERE

Patrick said...

$56k is hardly poverty level wages for roughly 8 months of work.

And it reflects the fundamental dishonesty of the CTU. They are being paid handsomely, well above others in their area, but they use a statistic that bears very little relation to their situation. By using that figure, we can discern that they know their strike will be unpalatable to the taxpayers.

garage mahal said...

$56k is hardly poverty level wages for roughly 8 months of work.

Sounds like you're aiming too low in life in my opinion. I would never spend money on college to make 56k per year watching a bunch of fucking brats all day. From what I read with 16 yrs experience, and a doctorate, you get "to" 88k per year.

Might be why Tagg Romney didn't get into teaching, and why nobody here has entered the seemingly easy get rich scheme of being a public school teacher.

Rusty said...

Matthew Sablan said...
Not ironic at all. How a private school handles itself is in no way related to how whether or not we should hold public employees accountable.


No. That the Mayor of Chicago along with the Superintendent both send their children to private schools. Public schools in Chicago being inadequate to the task.


Excuse me. I was wrong before. Chicago public school teachers are the second highest paid in the nation. Chicago public school students are still among the worst educated. By any metric.

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...
$56k is hardly poverty level wages for roughly 8 months of work.

Sounds like you're aiming too low in life in my opinion. I would never spend money on college to make 56k per year watching a bunch of fucking brats all day. From what I read with 16 yrs experience, and a doctorate, you get "to" 88k per year.

Might be why Tagg Romney didn't get into teaching, and why nobody here has entered the seemingly easy get rich scheme of being a public school teacher.


Can anyone actually follow a single point garage attempts?

This thread's evolution is: I must pretend teachers make a third to half less than they actually do and taxpayers make 5 times what they actually do or my effort to defend the indefensible won't even make sense. When this is pointed out to me I'll make some perfunctory blather about sources and then change the subject. First I'll insult other people's life choices as if that supports my point in any way. Then I'll mention the Romney kid with the strange name and remind everyone he's rich. Despite my implicit acknowledgement of error (by refusing to respond when proven wrong) I will continue to believe the idiotic conclusions I based on facts I cannot defend.

garage mahal said...

This thread's evolution is: I must pretend teachers make a third to half less than they actually do and taxpayers make 5 times what they actually do or my effort to defend the indefensible won't even make sense.

The 250k number was a riff. It's where the tax debate is/was. It had nothing to do with what average Chicagoans make.

Republicans: 250k isn't that much.
Republicans: 56-70k is way too much.

Marshal said...

The 250k number was a riff. It's where the tax debate is/was. It had nothing to do with what average Chicagoans make.

Republicans: 250k isn't that much.
Republicans: 56-70k is way too much.


The 250k was a lie you made up because the facts didn't support your position. The tax debate surrounding 250k (the so called millionaire's tax) concerns federal income taxes, which do not support the Chicago Public School System.

And the 56-70 number is a lie also. Starting CPS teachers make 49k. So your range is the lowest possible FT salary to a number below average.

But hey, tell us again how Romney names his kids funny and he's rich. That was enough for you, right?

Republican: whatever someone else is willing to pay you in free exchange is fine with me.

Republican: when my tax money is funding something I expect a say in the exchange.

Leftist: When you freely give someone money in exchange for something you value, you need a third party to tilt the scale in your favor, even though you have the option of refusing the trade.

Leftist: When someone will put your in jail for not accepting an an involuntary exchange you should shut the fuck up and trust he designed the exchange in your best interest.

garage mahal said...

The 250k was a lie you made up because the facts didn't support your position. The tax debate surrounding 250k (the so called millionaire's tax) concerns federal income taxes, which do not support the Chicago Public School System.

Dude, it was a fucking joke. Again: one one hand 250k isn't that much, and we can't tax them a cent more. On the other hand teachers make too much and we must lower their salaries....

Maybe not a great joke, but I think most people could at least follow it.

And the 56-70 number is a lie also. Starting CPS teachers make 49k. So your range is the lowest possible FT salary to a number below average.

Not sure what point you're trying to make, but I think you made mine for me.

Dante said...

From what I read with 16 yrs experience, and a doctorate, you get "to" 88k per year.

Yet, that is what a PhD working at UC in California might make, when some nurses are making $155K.

And let's not forget, that means real work, not babysitting (right, that's what they are doing in Chicago, because they aren't teaching them anything).

Michael said...

But using leftie math 88k is 35% of the way to being a milionaireandbillionaire so it isn't nothing.

Rusty said...

Can anyone actually follow a single point garage attempts?


Unless he has talking points to follow he often gets lost when he tries to explore on his own.

MarkD said...

If the Democrats weren't a wholly-owned subsidiary of the unions, his would be a good strategy.

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...
People earning 250k are part of the struggling middle class. Raising their taxes would be just like kicking liberty square in the balls.

But, a teacher earning 50k is excessive, greedy, and corrupt.

Why do Republicans with kids want the absolute worst teachers and environment for them?


So your position is that the entire post above is a "joke"? If so I agree, but I think I'm using the term in a slightly different way than you are. Could you by chance explain how this "joke" differs from your actual position? Because it seems exactly like the rest of the idiocy you post.

garage mahal said...

Marshal
Seriously, just forget it.

Marshal said...

Why would I forget it garage? You assert this:

Why do Republicans with kids want the absolute worst teachers and environment for them?

and then act like somehow you're just joking? Are you out of your fucking mind? On every thread you insult everyone, and then you whine if you get something back? Jesus, what a pathetic piece of shit.

garage mahal said...

and then act like somehow you're just joking

I wasn't joking about that part actually.

Maybe I need to apply some special sarcasm tags for you so you can follow along better?

***[sarcasm alert]*** Like the lobotomized Paul Krendler sitting at a dinner table in Hannibal, you seem a little slow on the uptake. ******

***THIS PORTION WAS A JOKE***

Marshal said...

garage mahal said...
Maybe I need to apply some special sarcasm tags for you so you can follow along better?


It would be sufficient if you either learn how to think or grow up.

Your choice, I don't want to make it too hard.

Kelvan Kringle said...

Garage has a point. While the average Chicago teacher makes $74K per year they are required to live in Chicago. Because they aren't going to put thier kids in CPS, they have to pay private school tuition(which is expensive).

EMD said...

d we must lower their salaries....

They REJECTED a 4% annual pay raise.

I get 2.5-3.0% pay raise each year.

EMD said...

Garage does not believe in market values.

Rusty said...

garage mahal said...
and then act like somehow you're just joking

I wasn't joking about that part actually.

Maybe I need to apply some special sarcasm tags for you so you can follow along better?


No. Most of us get it.
You're just lame.

Roger Sweeny said...

According to this yahoo article, Illinois law now prohibits bargaining and striking over anything but pay and benefits. So a strike over teacher evaluations, or air conditioning, or year-round operation would be illegal.

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-teachers-strike-illegal-under-illinois-law-222851216.html

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

garage mahal,

Sounds like you're aiming too low in life in my opinion. I would never spend money on college to make 56k per year watching a bunch of fucking brats all day.

Evidently (and thankfully) you do not teach. I am hoping that you don't have kids either. Yeesh.

Andy Freeman said...

> The school Emmanuel sends his kids too are against the sort of evals he is enforcing now.

That's because that school produces good results.

I'll bet that Garage thinks that blaming the kids, their environment, etc excuses the poor performance of the typical Chicago school and justifies the teacher's salaries.

He's wrong. If no one can do the job, then no one gets the job.

We're paying to educate those kids. If they're not being educated, there's no reason to pay, regardless of the reason why they're not being educated.