September 6, 2012

Live-blogging Day 3 of the Democratic convention.

5:41 Central Time: I'm starting now, because it's Tammy Baldwin, my congressperson. She's running to take the seat Herb Kohl has been sitting in for oh, so long. She tells us of Wisconsin's motto, "Forward" (which Obama is using as his motto), and she finds a few opportunities to repeat "Forward." She's talking about "the Wisconsin I know" and "the America I love."

5:51: It's LBGT time. A video, with Obama saying we need to see a man with a man or a woman with a woman as equally worthy as a man and a woman. Then a young man named Zack Wahls — from Iowa — says he was raised by 2 moms, and: "I'm awesome at putting the seat down."

5:55: A really sweet and charming video about the woman who started the "Fired up/Ready to go" chant in Greenwood, South Carolina, some 4 years ago, Edith S. Childs. Ah, it's on line: here. Watch it. I liked that.

5:58: "They really got through the gay stuff quick," I observe.

6:01: Jim Messina, the Obama campaign manager is begging us for money. There's a sob in his voice. He sounds genuinely desperate.

6:28: Foo Fighters emote. [ADDED: Meade says: "This is kind of depressing music, and it goes along with the whole convention.]

6:32: The Foo Fighters are singing "I never wanna die" over and over. It's this song, "Walk":
I never wanna die
I'm on my knees
I never wanna die
I'm dancing on my grave
I'm running through the fire
Forever, whatever
I never wanna die
I never wanna leave
No, no... that's not an argument for a politician's reelection.

6:34: Now, there's this really gloomy video. Faces on a dark background. Woebegone people agonizing about how they "did everything right," and yet they are "one mistake away from losing the little that we have."

6: 47: An. act.tress. Kerry. Wash.ing.ton. I'd never heard of her before, but she's emoting big time, like she's talking to a bunch of idiots who never think about politics. But politics is thinking about us, she says ominously. Uh, we're the people watching the convention. We're not your Hollywood friends. "The other side" — "side," pronounced as a series of trembling, upscaling notes — "wants. to. take. our. voi.ces. a.way. and render us. invisible" — big wagging finger — "but we" — "we," rendered in the trembling, upward 4-syllables for a 1-syllable word, like she's really trying to scare us — "are not. invisible." Her doe eyes scan the crowd. Did they understand? Did they com.pre.hend? Did they fath.om the depths of. my. words? [ADDED FROM THE COMMENTS: Fiftyville said: "I loved Kerry Washington's statement... 'You may not be thinking about politics, but politics is thinking about you.' If you have to steal, Dems, why steal from Yakov Smirnoff?"]

6:57: Scarlett Johansson. So the beautiful actresses are all getting dumped in an early hour. Unlike Kerry Washington, the actress Johansson is able to act like a normal person. "We are the generation who feel our voices haven't been heard," she says, repeating something Chelsea Clinton said earlier in the convention. Johansson enthuses about voting. It's a speech that seems more appropriate to a bunch of young kids. And, sorry, I don't understand the basis for this whole generation believing that their "voices haven't been heard." You get to vote. Like everyone else. Why do you feel there's more of an entitlement than that? If you have something to say, say it. You kids have the whole internet. Twitter. YouTube. My generation didn't have that. What's this "no voice" business?

7:04: Debbie Wasserman Schultz aids a woman who is struggling to walk onto the stage. With great effort, she struggles to blurt out the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. My God, it's Gabby Giffords. Many tears run down many faces.

7:09: "As a Catholic woman, I take reproductive health seriously," says Caroline Kennedy, reading the script robotically. She complains about states putting restrictions on "access to reproductive health care."

7:13: Jennifer Granholm, "from the great state of Michigan, where the trees are just the right height." (She lifts Mitt Romney's gentle joke about home, and Meade and I disagree about whether she's showing some affection for her fellow Michigander.)

7:17: Granholm has a good (if unfair) line — referencing Romney's supposed lack of concern for auto-industry workers — "The cars get the elevator, and the workers get the shaft." You have to know that Romney had a car elevator installed in one of his homes.

7:21: It's "actress Eva Longoria." Not sure why Caroline Kennedy and Jennifer Granholm broke up the parade of actresses. Longoria sounds like an intelligent person who actually has followed politics in the normal way that people who like politics follow politics.

7:43: John Kerry. American exceptionalism demands an exceptional President, and that President is Barack Obama, he says.

8:05: As a tribute to servicemen and women goes on at the convention, email from Obama comes in, saying, "Ann -- Before I go on stage to accept the nomination, there's one thing I need to say... Can you pitch in $25 or more right now?"

8:44: Jill Biden warmed us up to think of Joe Biden as the embodiment of human caring, and now Joe Biden is doing the same for Barack Obama. He tells us he "loves" Obama. Obama was "gutsy."

9:40: Obama is giving his speech. Here's the whole text.  His inflections are polished, but nothing is jumping out at me as different from what I've heard him say many times.

9:55: "We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense." Is that controversial?

10:03: The word "hope" appears 15 times in his speech. The last 3 come near the end:  "And I think about the young sailor I met at Walter Reed hospital, still recovering from a grenade attack that would cause him to have his leg amputated above the knee... He gives me hope. I don’t know what party [various heretofore mentioned] men and women belong to. I don’t know if they’ll vote for me. But I know that their spirit defines us. They remind me, in the words of Scripture, that ours is a 'future filled with hope.' And if you share that faith with me – if you share that hope with me – I ask you tonight for your vote." Other people give him hope, the Bible refers to hope, and if you hope like he hopes, you should vote for him. Because... hope!

10:17: The speech ends, and there's a flurry of confetti. No balloons, because an indoor presentation hadn't been planned. Obama steps forward and waves. There's a closeup of his face and I think I see his lip curl with a bit of disgust, and I rewind and ask Meade to interpret the face and he says: resignation. Subjectively, we think we see in his face that he knows he's going to lose. Michelle and Malia and Sasha come out, looking perfectly glossy and pretty, and then there's Biden and Jill and Mrs. Robinson and various other relatives, milling around, waving a bit, and then the long view of the stage shows they've clumped toward the rear wall. Why are they huddling there? The shots of the crowd show some ecstatic delegates — all women — and many stolid/dispirited faces — male and female. At one point there's a hitch in the Bruce Springsteen music — a silent gap — but then it plays again. And now they're gone.

10:26: The Cardinal wanders out to the lectern. He's got his benediction written out on folded sheets of paper. "Help us to see that a society's greatness is found, above all, in the respect it shows for the weakest and neediest among us." He thanks God for giving us those "inalienable rights — life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." He thanks God for "the gift of life" and asks that we be given "the courage to defend it." In subtle defiance of the convention's abortion-rights theme, he says: "We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected."

11:03: The Democrats didn't have anything oddball, like Clint Eastwood. Nothing surprising. Nothing to talk about. Speaking of nothing, on Intrade, Obama re-election shares today experienced a 0.0% change. Oh! I checked back, now he's down 0.2%. (Romney is up 0.7% on the day.)

11:12: I just realized I fast-forwarded through Charlie Crist. Looked like another white male governor.  I forgot about the whole former-Republican thing. Does anyone really care?

785 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   601 – 785 of 785
Shouting Thomas said...

I'm not sure I share Althouse's view that Obama knows he is finished.

I think it comes down to the debates.

I don't really know that much about Romney yet. Nobody does. He's pretty tight with his personal side, as a decent person in the public limelight should be.

Romney has to win the debates.

EMD said...

Germany produces twice the number of vehicles as the U.S. and pays their workers twice what we pay. How this is this possible?

Maybe General Motors should ask them.

I'd like to honestly know, too.

I have no problem with paying great wages as long as the business model can sustain them. I also have no love for the shit-tastic executive leadership the Big 3 has had to suffer for many years. Most, outside of Iacocca, where like Anti-Steve Jobs.

I wasn't really talking about cars in my hypothetical situation, either. I think it was based on a company in my old hometown that made aluminum ladders and opened a factory in Mexico.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Someone other than employees have to BUY the cars made in these plants.

They obviously did. The companies became profitable just through that very strategy.

How can you keep missing all this?

Shouting Thomas says that your information, though it seems woefully incomplete compared to what I've read, but somehow be sufficient.

So I guess I should just not bother filling in the many holes in your arguments.

It would leave me with a lot less to say. But Shouting Thomas says that you must somehow already know everything that you need to know.

JohnJ said...

“I was not about me; it was about you.”

Oh, brother!

And, has there ever been a politician so fond of creating laughingly transparent straw men?

Shouting Thomas said...

Ritmo, nobody needs access to "complete information."

Everybody knows what they want and need.

You don't need to be an intellectual or an economist to know this.

As my whimsy leads me.. said...

I, also, thought that Cardinal Dolan's benediction was the best speech of the night. He was the only one who spoke in support of the unborn.

Toy

Shouting Thomas said...

Ritmo,

You are comically resistant to actually reading and absorbing what another person writes.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

You don't need to be an intellectual or an economist to know this.

Ain't that the truth.

Everybody knows what they want and need.

Um, yeah. I somehow disagree.

Synova said...

"Germany produces twice the number of vehicles as the U.S. and pays their workers twice what we pay. How this is this possible? they're 100% unionized as well. they're outsourcing cheap labor on our shores."

Good for us.

And part of the reason why automobile manufacturing in the US would have continued. There would be demand for labor. There would be demand for parts. "General Motors" is not the beginning and end, alpha and omega, of the US automobile industry. Japan makes cars here, too. About everyone does. And there were other American companies that didn't have to be bailed out.

It's not a GIVEN that refusing to bail out GM was the best of all choices, but portraying an alternate opinion on those bail-outs as wanting to destroy the US auto industry forever is LYING.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

I'm comically resistant to thinking that shoddy information, just because it's all that's in "someone else's" interest know, is all that's worth my commenting on.

jr565 said...

When he said THEY had a prescription when ever something went wrong to cut taxes, who is they? Does he. Or know that people like JFK, who was a dem, was someone who similarly cut taxes and reaped the benefits? Again, lowering taxes shouldn't be some conservative notion and Obama and the dems only hurt themselves by demagoging that position as ineffective and an evil. Will tax cuts alone solve all problems? NO, but again that s'more of Obanma and Ritmo's strawman arguing.

theribbonguy said...

SukieTawdry:Something about his passionate domestic stand or something.

I tuned in after the bamster was done..tried to watch myself but lasted about 2 min..decided to read about it here.

Truth is none of them sounded convinced that the dems carried it off, but in the end they all picked up Da-One's bucket of water and started carrying.

Shouting Thomas said...

Althouse, a damned smart woman, thinks Obama knows that he is finished.

I'll have to give that thought some serious consideration.

Obama overstepped very badly in going all in on Obamacare in the middle of a serious recession.

As much as people wanted him to succeed, he brought a ton of ill will down on himself with that blunder.

May cost him a second term.

Lem said...

Looks like Allie didn't make it.

Maybe she fainted at the end of the speech.

Matt said...

@Ritmo

The existence of auto-supply chain companies (which by the way were once handled IN HOUSE by the auto manufacturers... EVIL OUTSOURCING!) has nothing to do with a "multiplier" effect.

Just as Synova explained, this is not a closed system. External inputs (that is people actually buying cars) keeps the whole chain intact.

People will buy cars whether or not there is a car manufacturer called "GM".

Companies, even large ones that have been around a long time, fail.

In nature, almost 95% of all forms of life that have ever existed on our planet have gone extinct. Businesses, in an actual functioning free market, are much the same.

Saving GM just because we're used to it existing in its current form is counter-productive. It's like saving the dinosaurs from extinction; hey, they were around for a long time so they should always be around! Nevermind those pesky mammals...

O Ritmo Segundo said...

And there were other American companies that didn't have to be bailed out.

One of which would NOT include Chrysler. But who's counting? You don't need those jobs anyway.

Give 'em to the mercy of what the foreign manufacturers want to make.

Even though we still buy many American cars here. There's an obvious market, but Synova opposes any role the government had in allowing that market to continue at that strength.

Go Synova. Fire at will.

Steve Austin said...

Dem Convention summary-->Nights 1 and 2 all about getting women concerned that if they get knocked up from casual sex or a rapist that Mitt will personally make them carry baby to term.

Tonight -->>Tell blue collar male voters in OH, WI, and MI that O personally killed Bin Laden while saving GM jobs, thus trust in O because he'll bail out your union job also and provide for more animals to hunt after he takes out Ted Nugent.

I do think Joe Trippi is correct that GM bailout plays well in OH and MI. Romney/Ryan need to be ready tomorrow with strong comeback.

elkh1 said...

When an employee doesn't do his job, we let him go.

It's so hard to assign blames and credits to former presidents, e.g. Clinton created Freddie and Fannie to house his cronies, which, by the way caused the sub-prime housing bubble and crash, but Clinton blamed W. for the lousy economy that Obama failed to fix or make it look better.

Some "leader" prefers to "lead from behind", takes credits, like their greatest achievement in Iraq, and blames everything else on everybody else, e.g. the God-Jerusalem platform. Why don't we treat our president as our national mascot? If good things happen, we keep the mascot; if shits happen, we ditch the mascot.

SukieTawdry said...

"We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense." Is that controversial?

Well, it depends. How inclusive is "We, the People"? I get the impression that those of us who oppose his plans to fundamentally transform America are not among "We, the People." That we only want to know what's in it for us and are devoid of commitment, love, charity and patriotism. Could be I'm wrong, but probably not. The prez is pretty good at demonizing his opposition.

Chip Ahoy said...

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You become quite good at this and the keystrokes occur automatically brrrrrip brrrrrrap bink there you go.

This concludes Pro tip by Chip Ahoy.

Shouting Thomas said...

None of you are interested in Althouse's contention that Obama knows he's finished?

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Ok Matt. Get technical about it and accept that those jobs kept both jobs supplying the parts and those who produced goods and services consumed by the employed laborers intact. Call it whatever you want.

Outsourcing to a domestic industry is bad? My, my. It seems like an entire season of political debate has gone on without you.

ANyway, I've got no love lost for GM. Let them go away. ANd let them be replaced by an obvious domestic and equally powerful alternative -- one that, as yet, doesn't exist.

And you go and offer your house up to all those laid off as a result of us waiting in the meantime.

ricpic said...

Montana Urban Schmendrik thinks he's hot shit.

And he is...hot shit.

EMD said...

Why let Lehman Brothers fail when its demise would have a larger impact on the financial stability of the country than GM? Lehman had assets double that of GM at its bankruptcy.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

None of you are interested in Althouse's contention that Obama knows he's finished?

Nope. She just pulls ideas out of her you know what to sound interesting and controversial, regardless of any facts. She only has any use for the facts when they're exciting. Never when they're boring. Which is usually the case, though -- Unfortunately for her.

Synova said...

I honestly have no idea how anyone who claims any sort of familiarity with science and reason will *insist* that perpetual motion exists.

That you can put x energy into a system and get x+n energy out of a system.

It's a function. Put x in and get x-n out, repeat, put x-n in and get x(x-n) out.

The money/energy/whatever goes around. It does not multiply.

It might keep the system going for a while, but if nothing is done to actually add energy, it's going to run down again. Staving off disaster isn't a bad thing, just so long as no one has the fantasy that the problem has been *solved*.

elkh1 said...

GM jobs? How many GM jobs are created in China? How much taxpayers' money given to GM was directed to put on the jerseys of a foreign soccer team? Oh, Soros bought chunks of that soccer team.

Why is GM closing Volt?

exiledonmainst said...

"I do think Joe Trippi is correct that GM bailout plays well in OH and MI. Romney/Ryan need to be ready tomorrow with strong comeback"

The termination of the pensions of non-union Delphi employees.

I don't understand why R/R hasn't made more of that one already.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Ask Bush's buddy Hank Paulsen, EMD.

His reasoning was fine, though. You couldn't give the message that you'd save every one of them, but if you'd have been happy with letting each of them go, then we'd have been dealing with unemployment much higher than 8% now.

Perhaps you're ok with that.

It goes against Romney's lying narrative, but I really get that the majority of you don't care about unemployment.

Please make that clearer. It's confusing to hear you pretend otherwise when your ideas on economics clearly indicate that you don't.

ricpic said...

Did Obama do a shout-out to black America that its EBT cards will continue to twinkle and shine courtesy the white debil?

EMD said...

Why does the government still own 26% of GM?

Nora said...

Is that controversial?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The right question would be how this notion(brought to a degree of banality when said loud) helps to solve current economic problems, other than justify higher taxes.

Obama's speech was most of the same, high rhetorics, even more promisses. Does anybody buys more and bigger promisses from this ninkinpoop, I wonder. It's becoming 'fool me twice' situation.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Good night, EMD. Have fun creating all those "pure", untouched by government, magical jobs.

Steve Austin said...

I give Ann's political instincts credit as she said early on that the Walker recall was a bad, bad idea and that Walker would win and be more powerful than ever. Hard to say those type of things from the heart of Madison in 2011.

But on the thought Obama knows he going to lose? I don't buy it. The guy is such a narcissist, he isn't at all processing a "loss".

For a brief moment I thought he was going to drop all the first person references, then he zinged that line about him being "The President!!!". He's still the same self absorbed clown he was 12-months ago.

SukieTawdry said...

Ann and I saw the same look on Obama's face and I only looked for a few seconds. He knew going in he had nothing to offer the American public beyond more of the same old pablum. And he knows he didn't sell it.

Tim said...

"The Cardinal wanders out to the lectern. He's got his benediction written out on folded sheets of paper. "Help us to see that a society's greatness is found, above all, in the respect it shows for the weakest and neediest among us." He thanks God for giving us those "inalienable rights — life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." He thanks God for "the gift of life" and asks that we be given "the courage to defend it." In subtle defiance of the convention's abortion-rights them, he says: "We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected."

Democrats respond, "Fuck you and your concern for those waiting to be born, Cardinal; Abortion is a Sacrament in OUR church!"

garage mahal said...

You loved every minute of it.

I caught maybe the 2nd half of the speech and it was worse than I could have ever possibly imagined. He's sharing, [in his arms!], the victims of a pointless war he's sending them to fight without a clear explanation why. How about not sending them there if you can't explain why they are there in the first place?

ricpic said...

Will tax cuts alone solve all problems? NO.

Most. They'll solve most problems.

All problems will never be solved. This is the conservative position based on the fact that man is a thin reed. The liberal conceit that anything short of all problems solved is intolerable ALWAYS has led to a mountain of skulls. Which is why Ritmo and his fellow professional agitators are such execrable creatures.

David said...

garage mahal said...

Germany produces twice the number of vehicles as the U.S. and pays their workers twice what we pay. How this is this possible? they're 100% unionized as well. they're outsourcing cheap labor on our shores.


Here's how:

1. They outsource. As an example 38% of BMW production comes from outside Germany.
2. Their market in Europe is far less price competitive. The same car costs considerably more in Europe than in the US. Ditto within Europe where there are disparities of 30% plus in the price of the same car within the EU.
3. They have less government mandate and regulation of how their cars must be equipped, which lowers cost and makes planning easier.
4. Their companies are better managed and they make better cars. Some of this does in fact have to do with management-labor cooperation and higher wages, so you are not entirely wrong.
5. They have done a great job of branding while American domestic makers have by and large devalued their brands.
6. They can still lease cars profitably because the resale value of German cars is far more predictible and stable. This is because the cars are better. The cars are better because management and labor have both been more focused on quality, and because the German government has not made German manufacturers subject to stupid regulations. The negative impact of cafe standards on the US industry is very strong. They caused American manufacturers to innovate to the standards not to the market.

The "saving" of GM will ultimately be another chapter in American fecklessness in the auto game. It will not have a good long term impact on competitiveness.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Shorter ricpic:

Unless we accept tax cuts for the wealthy as the ONLY answer to ANY economic problem in America, we will turn into the killing fields of Cambodia.

Thanks for the paranoid absolutism. It brought me a good chuckle.

Tim said...

Shouting Thomas said...

"None of you are interested in Althouse's contention that Obama knows he's finished?"

I didn't watch the speech (I saw no minutes of the DNC, yay!) so I can't comment on the validity of her sense of the look of his face; I can tell by his campaign (no ideas, no policy initiatives, just attack, attack, attack) that he knows he's in deep, deep trouble.

Being out-raised is one very clear sign; so to is his very negative campaign - the respective campaign internal polls of likely voters in battleground states must be really awful for the incumbent. They must be worse than the sloppier public polls showing him usually falling short of 50% (which is the longstanding threshold for electability for incumbents).

He's in trouble, and words no longer can save him.

And his polls must indicate there aren't enough idiots in key states willing to piss away their votes on another four years of dead-bang, sure-fire, bank on it failure.

Pogo said...

"The Democratic National Committee banned dozens of Charlotte churches from distributing gift baskets to delegates because the congregations hold values that are contrary to the party platform, according to local religious leaders.
“They told us our views on women’s rights are contrary to the Democratic party platform,” said David Benham, the lead organizer of the Charlotte714 religious movement.

Charlotte714 is a group of more than 100 churches across the region that mobilized to pray for the Democratic National Convention. More than 9,000 people gathered last Sunday for a time of worship and prayer in advance of the convention.

He said 56 churches wanted to “Adopt-a-Delegation.” They put together gift baskets featuring Carolina Pralines and a letter welcoming them to the city and offering assistance in transportation, childcare or spiritual matters.

“We were just trying to display Southern hospitality,” he said. “We wanted them to know we were happy to serve them.”

However, DNC officials conveyed to city leaders that the Christians would not be allowed to present their gift baskets.

“I got a call from the mayor’s office speaking on behalf of the convention and they asked us not to participate,” he said. “They told us our views on women’s rights are contrary to the platform.”
"

Revenant said...

Germany produces twice the number of vehicles as the U.S. and pays their workers twice what we pay. How this is this possible?

Average price Germans paid for a car last year: $36,430

Average price Americans paid for a car last year: $27,950

That clears up the mystery of where German car markers get the extra money to pay their workers. As for the mystery of why they sell MORE cars, I'm going with "because anyone with money and common sense would rather drive a BMW than a Chevy".

ricpic said...

Chuckling puts you on a higher plane, Montana Urban Schmendrik? But somehow I don't see you capable of anything but a hard leftists' grimace -- for life.

Lem said...

Oh nooo.

Its a trap!

You just want to bait me, or somebody, to talk about the war.

Here is what I'm for.

Tim said...

“I got a call from the mayor’s office speaking on behalf of the convention and they asked us not to participate,” he said. “They told us our views on women’s rights are contrary to the platform.”

Nothing, but nothing, can be allowed to interfere with the Democrat Sacrament of Abortion.

If you do not ardently support Abortion, you cannot be allowed to have anything whatsoever with the Democrats and their culture of death.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

THat's because you're blind, ripcord.

And sonding a little more desperate every time you chime in here.

What's Germany's unemployment rate, Reverend Revenant?

chickelit said...

garage mahal said...

Germany produces twice the number of vehicles as the U.S. and pays their workers twice what we pay. How this is this possible? they're 100% unionized as well. they're outsourcing cheap labor on our shores.

How is that possible? High taxes! On the Mittelstand no less. Also, the Germans outsource their defense cost to the USA (since 1946) bless their hearts! (the Germans are such military pussies these days but we insisted they be).

You want a Wirtschaftswunder?--look to Germany. You want a Work-the-shaft-blunder? Vote Obama!

Synova said...

"He's sharing, [in his arms!], the victims of a pointless war he's sending them to fight without a clear explanation why. How about not sending them there if you can't explain why they are there in the first place?"

I agree, garage.

I think there is always plenty of room for disagreement about when to go to war, if ever. No matter where that line is drawn people are going to fall on either side of it. Always.

But when we do go to war, no matter how much anyone thinks we should not have gone, at the very least, the military has to be given a clear vision of why. You (or anyone) may hate George Bush and disagree with his reasons completely, but he was pretty good at that.

If there is not a clear "why" and some sort of vision as to why this is important, even something as debatable as "making the world safe for democracy" or "denying terrorists a safe-haven", then everyone should just be brought home. Inertia isn't a reason to stay. The president ought to be able to articulate what reason there *is*.

Anything else gets even more of our people killed for "no reason" than would be killed for "no reason" because Bush was wrong (if he was wrong.)

If leadership... if the *president*... doesn't have his *will* in the conflict, it's wrong to continue it. It's wrong on a different level than if the decision was wrong. Double wrong... or something. The wrong decision to be at war at all, and wrong management that gets more of our soldiers killed because the military lacks focus and purpose and certainly lacks leadership.

Nathan Alexander said...

Allieoop,
It may not mean anything to you that I think less of you, since you have so much practice at dehumanizing humans whose existence is inconvenient to you through your worship of the culture of death via abortion (and govt-run/paid health care).

Buti think it might be good for you to know that people see through your self-deception and see your selfish, narcissistic soul.

SukieTawdry said...

I just watched Jennifer Granholm on tape. What was that??!

Nathan Alexander said...

Rittmo,
I said nothing about he poor.

But Enticed dependency is not good for anyone.

For an excellent example, just notice how your dependency on democrat talking points puts you at such a horrible disadvantage in every discussion about policy, economics, math, or pretty much every single topic you join in.

chickelit said...

BTW, I'm proud of the fact that Americans defended Germany in the past from tyranny (since 1945). They were in no position to do so themselves from the slovenly slavic hordes.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

It's a dependency on facts and reason, actually, Nathan. And no, I wouldn't find a liberation from those things to be very liberating. Not in any real sense.

ricpic said...

I "sond" desparate, Montana Urban Schmendrik? You "sond" positively demented. Your final true state.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

You sound like someone who needs a hobby.

Perhaps you could take up typing.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

I heard courtroom stenographers are making a comeback, ricky.

Enough. Good night.

kimsch said...

EMD,

Nope. Not India. The greater Chicago-Milwaukee metroplex. But a company in India could outsource to me... Then I could be international.

O Ritmo Segundo said...

Chickie, we had a huge defense dep't (even by Eisenhower's standards) in the 1950s.

We also had a better economy, roaring labor unions and a much stronger middle class.

In a world that many don't accept, it's possible that those things were linked.

Anyway, enjoy the night.

AllieOop said...

Nathan, you don't know me personally, you're assessment of my psyche is pure conjecture and probably projection on your part.

garage mahal said...

I think there is always plenty of room for disagreement about when to go to war, if ever. No matter where that line is drawn people are going to fall on either side of it. Always.

Agreed. The sickening display of tonight had nothing to do with merits of why are troops are there though. Just an example or two of war amputees down with the cause and not too bitter. Just perverse.

yashu said...

I just realized I fast-forwarded through Charlie Crist. Looked like another white male governor. I forgot about the whole former-Republican thing. Does anyone really care?

The GOP got Artur Davis; I think they got the (far) better end of that swap.

MSM went out of its way to ignore Davis's role at the GOP convention (considering his role at the Dem convention in 2008!). Of course, wouldn't surprise me if they (try to) make more of Crist. But I agree-- really, who cares?

Tim said...

"If leadership... if the *president*... doesn't have his *will* in the conflict, it's wrong to continue it. It's wrong on a different level than if the decision was wrong. Double wrong... or something. The wrong decision to be at war at all, and wrong management that gets more of our soldiers killed because the military lacks focus and purpose and certainly lacks leadership."

Obama is less qualified to be Commander in Chief than he is president; the only reason were still in Afghanistan the way we are in Afghanistan is that he (and most senior Democrats close to him) are terrified of being labeled weak on defense.

But because they have never seriously thought about the nation's defense, beyond criticizing policies toward homosexuals, procurement and belligerence (they are the institutional anti-war/anti-American interest party - yet another reason Althouse's hope/expectation for Democrats to grow up on the WOT was insane), Obama and his people can't think beyond "let's not lose this."

Which, of course, means that's exactly what is going to happen.

chickelit said...

@ricpic: Being sort of a student of German, I appreciate when you interject a Yiddish-origin word like Schmendrik. This enriches my vernacular.

wyo sis said...

Allie brings a lightheartedness to the discussion. I had a little flame war with her and realized she had mad nursing skills. She can jolly you along with the best of them. It's a talent that sometimes seems flippant, but it helps lighten the mood. You can always just skip her comments if they get you upset.

AllieOop said...

Thank you Wyo Sis.

Tim said...

"...we had a huge defense dep't (even by Eisenhower's standards) in the 1950s.

We also had a better economy, roaring labor unions and a much stronger middle class.

In a world that many don't accept, it's possible that those things were linked."


For the uninformed, possible, yes.

For those who know better, not at all.

The real question is, are you ignorant, or lying?

Matt said...

@Ritmo

GM exists to make a profit. It attempts to do this by selling cars. To this end it employs people.

You seem to be confusing the "what" and "why" of GM. The Obama campaign has in the past blasted Mitt Romney's career at Bain was about creating "profits" and not "jobs". This made me chuckle!

Every private sector job, boiled down to its essence is about creating profits! It is the "why" of the economy. GM is not a "jobs program" designed to provide employment for the good of the country. It is a car company that employs people to make money. If it cannot accomplish that, it should die.

Yes, this would create dislocations. Yes, that would mean real people out of work. This is why I happily support a social safety net in this country. You are doing employees of GM NO favors by allowing the company to continue as it is (in fact, the channel stuffing activities of GM have dire consequences at the dealer level, and will only prop the company up for so long). Simply put; having a failed car company produce crappy cars that few people want, and then dump 4 months worth of inventory of these crappy cars onto captive dealer clientele around the world is NOT an efficient or good use of resources.

Speaking of efficient use of resources; out sourcing is out sourcing. Where the outsourcing is done means little economically. Protectionism is a failed economic viewpoint. Let's take your views to their logical conclusion; companies in Atlanta should be kept from purchasing office supplies from Colorado, it's in their economic best interest to keep ALL office supply manufacturing in Atlanta at all cost. Silliness.

Economic growth comes from two and ONLY two sources:

1. Exploitation of new resources
2. Increases in productivity

Government spending does not increase productivity or provide new resources, it therefore creates no real economic growth.

chickelit said...

yashu quoted somebody...
I just realized I fast-forwarded through Charlie Crist.

But orange-you-glad you did? :)

kimsch said...

I rode in a Volt at the Chicago Auto Show. It was an $18,000 sedan with a price tag of $40,000. It wasn't a hybrid, the gas engine did not recharge the electric one. The electric range was miniscule and the gas engine required premium gas as if it were a Lambo or Ferrari. Absolutely not worth it. Not at all, at all.

Lem said...

Brokaw is not handling the DNC debacles too good.

yashu said...

But orange-you-glad you did?

Haha, yes. Crist representing for people of color!

Lem said...

yashu quoted Althouse.

He got fronted, so hes going back for seconds ;)

Pogo said...

Allie doesn't generally argue in bad faith al la Ritmo.

I disagree with her, but she's no troll, unlike ORS or whatever he is this month.

Matt said...

@Kimsch

From an engineering standpoint hybrids and dual drive vehicles are a dead end. The efficiency gains are gobbled up by the weight increases.

Obama's magic "I declare cars will have a fuel efficiency of x by year y" declaration aside; Engine efficiency is governed by the laws of thermodynamics. Increases to mileage are gained only in small increments as our electronic controls and material engineering advance. These are held back by the OTHER design limitations of safety and cost.

It also helps that they calculate these numbers with 100% gasoline, which we as consumers cannot easily obtain (and that 10% ethanol really does drive down your mileage).

bagoh20 said...

""We, the People, recognize that we have responsibilities as well as rights; that our destinies are bound together; that a freedom which only asks what’s in it for me, a freedom without a commitment to others, a freedom without love or charity or duty or patriotism, is unworthy of our founding ideals, and those who died in their defense." Is that controversial?"

With nearly half the citizens paying no income tax, and a large majority paying less than they take out, I think a lot of Americans need take Obama's words to heart, and ask themselves that if they are not paying their fair share then who is? Find one of those people who is paying the bills and say "thank you, I'm sorry my President hates you."

Lem said...

I disagree with garage all the time... but I gotta say he is being consistent with his war opinion.

Garage is not a total hack.

AllieOop said...

Thanks to you too Pogo.

Lem said...

Allie doesn't generally argue in bad faith al Ritmo.

True.. I had some growing pains with her too.. but thats over.

AllieOop said...

Thanks Lemmy, gosh darn it, quit being so darn nice you conservatives, are ya trying to guilt trip me or sumpin'?

pbAndjFellowRepublican said...

"From an engineering standpoint hybrids and dual drive vehicles are a dead end."


The VW hybrid SUV isn't so bad. It is true that the diesel version gets better milage. But, this thing is fun to drive, it's surprisingly quick! The diesel is probably a slug.


Lem said...

..are ya trying to guilt trip me or sumpin'?

No.. we are not democrats.

bagoh20 said...

It's not really the case here right now, but I don't understand why Allie draws such fire. She makes a typical liberal statement, or even a neutral one, and some people jump all over her. Then she kicks back a little and it's out of control. Just disagree, if you must, but flaming is so 1990's.

People need to realize that:
1) flaming is not a good argument
2) it usually makes you look worse than your target.
3) If you wouldn't do it in person, then you're a coward and a bully for doing it here.
4) Don't mess with nurses - they know a thousand ways to hurt you, and most of them happen in your sleep. They're ninjas with syringas.

AllieOop said...

Bagoh, it's good you're not here in person, I might have to throw myself at you.

pbAndjFellowRepublican said...

"Flaming" sounds gay.



Not that there's anything wrong w/ that.


yashu said...

He got fronted, so hes going back for seconds ;)

Heh. That's a "she." And I will never come near to rivaling you, Lem, in Althouse's affections. ;)

But I will quote her again:

The Democrats didn't have anything oddball, like Clint Eastwood. Nothing surprising.

They did, but it was stuff that went against them: e.g. the embarrassing God/ Jerusalem flap, and Cardinal Dolan concluding the 2012 Dem convention-- the "abortion" convention-- with a pro-life message. As you say, that's "subtle defiance" (and I'd say not so subtle) right there. I hear he also asked people to pray for Romney and Ryan, is that true? Heh heh.

Rabel said...

Wow. A takedown from the AP.

Stunning

bagoh20 said...

I could have said nurses are harpies with sharpies, but I got my annual checkup this week, and I want to survive it.

AllieOop said...

Bagoh, I'll have you know I never stole any food from Phineus!

Alex said...

So do our libs agree with Chris Matthews about Smash the right

bagoh20 said...

Allie, do have any idea what it means when I wake up after surgery with Vaseline between my buttocks and cake icing in my navel. This happens a lot. It's a mystery.

AllieOop said...

Bagoh,
It's a secret nursing ritual. My lips are sealed.

Cedarford said...

Matt:

Speaking of efficient use of resources; out sourcing is out sourcing. Where the outsourcing is done means little economically.

Bullshit. Outsource enough and you gut a city, then a state, then a nation.

Protectionism is a failed economic viewpoint.

Really! If true, then there is no reason for any nation to protect most of it's Market components to provide prosperity for any citizenry. And that is not the case. Even in America - where we could outsource medicine and military and police to Chinese, Nigerians, N Koreans who could come here and do the work for 1/5th the present cost. But for some reason, we limit Free Trade and foreign access to compete in other sectors of the US economy than manufacturing and private enterprise services.

Let's take your views to their logical conclusion; companies in Atlanta should be kept from purchasing office supplies from Colorado, it's in their economic best interest to keep ALL office supply manufacturing in Atlanta at all cost. Silliness.

No, what happened was initially, jobs in the North went South to cheaper, non-union labor. Leaving gutted Rust Belt Cities. Then those non-union jobs went to cheaper Mexican border factories..which lasted all of about 10 years until the Jobs Creators determined overseas was cheaper than non-union American or Mexican labor.

Now the South is where one out of 2 Americans is on some sort of government assistance, while the unemployed Mexicans move to the USA because all the good jobs left Mexico for places like China and Pakistan.



Economic growth comes from two and ONLY two sources:

1. Exploitation of new resources
2. Increases in productivity

Add 3. - economic growth from taking foreign industries in, then destroying what was left of them in their original lands via economic or military warfare.
Add 4. Economic growth from targeted investment by industrial cabals or governments to get new economic sectors from other nations by non-warfare means. Typical would be using tariffs and tariff revenue or straight out taxes to get the British textile mills destroyed , getting wealthy Brits to invest in US railroads that would help wreck their Brit industries by improving US infrastructure and knowledge base enough to destroy work of thousands but enrich a few wealthy Brits even further.
Or taxes to build hydro dams that reserved power for making aluminum feedstock for dozens of new industries rising in the 20s-40s.


Government spending does not increase productivity or provide new resources, it therefore creates no real economic growth.

What an Ayn Rand reject! Government spending on schools, electric grids, roads, protecting trade routes from enemy is essential to productivity and acquiring and moving resources. Government ovesight of financial markets is critical to avoiding the recurrent meltdowns of the US financial system from becoming more than a once every 50 years phenomenon.

bagoh20 said...

"Chris Matthews: "Look, the only people who haven’t had it tough in the last four years are the rich"."

First off, the rich have generally lost more wealth on a percentage basis, but he's right, they have suffered less. That's the whole point of being rich, just like him. Can you even imagine a economic situation where the rich would have it tough and nobody else would. The closest you can get is a communist revolution, and that's has a lot more victims than just the rich. Is that what we should try next, Chris?

Unknown said...

Per usual the D's best defense is "I got balls the size of camels."

And, following Buckley, we have to credit them.

To defeat them Reagan style.

yashu said...

Garage is not a total hack.

I'm actually really impressed with his honesty in this thread. I find it really refreshing to hear opinions from him that are not reflexively (or merely) partisan-- or not partisan in a predictable way. I don't think I've ever heard him criticize Obama before.

And Ritmo is a stubborn (some might say bullheaded) arguer, but he's being pretty gracious, polite, and pleasant today!

I really enjoy genuine inter-partisan conversation that doesn't just consist of nasty ad homs and automatic/ simplistic/ delusional talking points. So it looks like Obama's speech-- something about the final night of the Dem convention-- has brought Americans, Republicans and Democrats, together! At least at Althouse.

rcocean said...

690 posts something that will be forgotten in 2 days. Obama, thy name is DULL.

bagoh20 said...

Obama was telling us tonight how they love entrepreneurship and people who succeed. Just don't succeed too much then you are the source of all our problems.

Have you seen Peter Shiff asking Dem attendees if they favor banning profits?

http://youtu.be/07fTsF5BiSM?t=30s

bagoh20 said...

"Garage is not a total hack.

I'm actually really impressed with his honesty in this thread."


His contract ended with the convention.

Rabel said...

A report on the speech from the Onion.

Could it be...Satan?

Apologies if it's already been linked.

jr565 said...

O Ritmo wrote:
It's a dependency on facts and reason, actually, Nathan. And no, I wouldn't find a liberation from those things to be very liberating. Not in any real sense
The economy as it stands says otherwise, your
"truth" notwithstanding.

Alex said...

I love how Ritmo claims to be the ultimate man of facts & reason, pushing Communism.

Real American said...

Nothing Oddball? they booed God!

LoafingOaf said...

Just the fact that Obama mentioned our troops in Afghanistan, which Romney did not do, tells me Romney is should not be Commander in Chief. Romney didn't even mention our troops in harm's way! He does not give a fuck. So I say FUCK HIM. It's outrageous that Romney gave a big speech at his convention asking us to be Commander in Chief and never even mentioned all the soldiers currently in harm's way. Obama told us when they'd come home. This is not a big issue on Althouse. Her husband is a draft dodger.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

Please understand this is too long to read:


A letter I wrote to Mark Steyn, who, with his unAmerican (as I've often thought yet rarely remarked, fuck hyphens) Canadian entertainer unBuckley schtick is still mega-likable and kinda Democratic, edited now that I see how many words I spelled incorrectly (his website doesn’t have the little red line underlining misspelled words):

Steyn your apocalypse isn’t gonna happen, although your book title and cover appear to be helping to advance “Armageddon” at least insofar as encouraging people to think, fear, and prepare for America’s death as if it were all but assured.

Is it not your view of history that a tool of useful idiots, defined here as those who work against their best interests with no self-awareness and detailed in a slightly different context by Mona Charen in her book Useful Idiots, has been artwork and/or propaganda promising the death of the enemy? Predicting America’s demise was a Soviet career for thousands of men was it not? Isn’t that what Pravda did most days? Have you heard of Iranian leaders doing what you do, predicting America’s death? Members of Hamas do it, don’t they? Did Castro do it? Stalin? Lenin? Didn’t someone say something about how they were gonna buy some rope from America, then kill us with that very same rope we sold them? Was it Mao or Khrushchev that was gonna bury us? All enemies of America predict America’s death, and so do you Steyn. I don’t.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, you are shouting “America’s Dead!” 500 times on your book cover. Your fatalism gives hope and strategic information to our greatest enemies. It gives them comfort and helps them aid in their preparations to defeat us. I can picture members of the Taliban looking at the cover and crying tears of joy, their most aspirational goal pictured for them by their hated enemy. There’s no need for this.

What is needed is very simple, therefore to show the death of Uncle Sam is not at all reasonable considering the situation; it contains multitudes of ingratitude as does in fact titling a book “After America”. As WFB said, “despair is a mortal sin.” Buck up Steyn. You’re a leader, whether you like it not, and you must not allow the constant struggle for liberty Reagan warned every generation would face to beat you down to the point where you’re projecting a death fantasy.

Get busy doing what I do (in addition to following Winston’s lead and imbibing liberally spirit enhancers when appropriate) and start convincing voters:

.
1. America is the most heavily taxed country in history.
2. In spite of historic taxation America borrows more money than any nation in history.
3. Democrats claim America neither taxes nor spends enough because we are a downright mean country.

These points becoming understood is how the conditions will start to exist where bad people have to do more of the right thing when in office, and it will be in large part because of conservative leaders in America like Mark Steyn (potentially) and the evernondefeatist Rush. If in 2013 America has a GOP POTUS, 58 Senate seats and about the current level of House seats, America could see 6% growth for years. The debt will be there for decades, but if the world sees leadership from the GOP in 2013 you should come out at that time and say you were wrong to doubt American viability and to use the death of America, in the title and on the cover photograph, for your book (and I was right to believe in the American ability to adapt to existing conditions, albeit slowly per the Churchill quote about doing the thing after exhausting all other options).

Don’t go wobbly on us Mark, you’re too valuable. I’m glad we got a chance to work this out and I look forward to seeing you regaining your bearings and then becoming a realist (also known as an “optimist” to ignorant ingrates).After America

Lem said...

When Bush said "I'm the decider" ( He Titled his book that way) Mathews reaction was to take that as evidence of Bushes "stubborn, hard headed, doesn't listen" presidency.

Obama says "I'm the president" and Chris Mathews was practically slobbering all over himself with approval and praise... he even went so far as to add "I'm the president and you are not"... something Obama didn't say.

Gary Rosen said...

C-fudd don't need no steenking job creators. He creates his own job peddling his ass on Skid Row.

Are you still slobbering all over BJ Clinton, Fudd? It's ironic, isn't it, that someone who hates Jews so much wishes he could be Monica Lewinsky.

LoafingOaf said...

I'd like someone to tell me what Romney's Afghanistan policy is. I won't ask Althouse, because she doesn't give a fuck. I won't ask Meade, he's a draft dodger. I wanna know what Romney's view is. Can someone tell me? I want someone to clearly state it.

LoafingOaf said...

I think we should know what Romney's policy on Afghanistan is after he had a whole convention. Will one of you tell me what it is?

LoafingOaf said...

Very straight forward question. What is Romney's policy with regards to Afghanistan. Someone tell me. You all are voting for the man so what is it???? TICK TOCK TICK TOCK.......

LoafingOaf said...

...tick
tock
tick
tock
tick
tock.......

Chip S. said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...
...in the 1950s...[w]e also had a better economy, roaring labor unions and a much stronger middle class.

Sorry to interrupt this interpartisan love fest with a few facts, but assertions like this simply can't be allowed to stand uncorrected.

Percentage Increase in Real Median Personal Income of Workers Age 15 or Older, by demographic group, 1960 to 2004:

White Males: +35%
White Females: +142%
Black Males: +86%
Black Females: +306%

jr565 said...

Loafing Oaf:
http://2012.republican-candidates.org/Romney/Afghanistan.php

Try Googling "Romney's position on Afghanistan"

It's an awful lot like Bush's position on Iraq:




2012 Republican Presidential Nominee
Former Governor of Massachusetts

Mitt Romney



Romney position on Afghanistan

The Objectives
While Gov. Romney believes that the continued presence of U.S. forces in Afghanistan should ultimately be decided by the military’s top brass, he cautions that the country should not be making similar commitments in the future. He also stressed that the bulk of the security obligation must lie with the Afghanis themselves.

Gov. Romney indicated in an interview with ABC on July 29, 2012, that while he is supportive of President Barack Obama’s Sept 2014 troops withdrawal deadline, he disagrees with the plan to order 23,000 troops out of Afghanistan by Sept. 30. However, he admits that his position could change depending on the counsel of military commanders, while leaving open the possibility of keeping combat troops in Afghanistan beyond 2014 should conditions change.

“I want those troops to come home based upon not politics, not based upon economics, but instead based upon the conditions on the ground determined by the generals … But I also think we have learned that our troops should not go off and try to fight a war of independence for another nation. Only the Afghanis can win Afghanistan’s independence from the Taliban.”
13 June 2011, Republican Presidential Debate in New Hampshire.

Cost
Romney believes our policy in Afghanistan should not be based on the economic costs alone.

“There will be some who argue it’s too expensive now, we’ve got to bring the troops home right now, or others will say, politically we need to make one decision or another … You don’t make a decision about our involvement in a conflict based on dollars and cents alone or certainly not with regards to politics.”
14 June 2011, New York Times

jr565 said...

Romneys position in short:
“I want those troops to come home based upon not politics, not based upon economics, but instead based upon the conditions on the ground determined by the generals

garage mahal said...

I'd like someone to tell me what Romney's Afghanistan policy is.

I'd like to know what Obama's policy is. Why are we there? I have no idea. and I don't think we've been told for years. Why do we have to "be there" until 2014? two more years is going to make or break the mission? I don't know why Republicans put up with it either, it seems like such low hanging fruit to be picked. unless they are hopelessly married to the same war machine as mindless Democrats seem to be.

Paul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PatCA said...

I think O knows he's done for, but as Michelle said, they're playing the long game. With the new EPA and FDA and HHS on steroids, it will take a miracle to dial back his progressive agenda. Too many rent seekers in DC for that.

Thought Granholm has hammered.

Thought Dolan's prayer was a Dear John letter to Obama.

Caroline K. is asking for an excommunication. As a Catholic I worry about choice? Throwing down the gauntlet.

creeley23 said...

Going into the conventions I had the not-so-original thought that Romney had to show he was human while Obama had to show he had a believable strategy for the next four years.

It was a low bar for Romney and he cleared it.

Obama gave a version of the same speech he's been giving for the past three years. He was as skillful and heartfelt as ever but it was the same vague warmed-over mush. He's still talking about wind power for God's sake!

If Obama had some good ideas he would have unleashed them before the mid-term elections, much less now. He doesn't.

For those with weak minds who are persauded by a good speech that accords with their previous beliefs, Obama did fine. The rest of us will have to look elsewhere.

jr565 said...

I would disagree slightly with Romney when he "cautions that the country should not be making similar commitments in the future. He also stressed that the bulk of the security obligation must lie with the Afghanis themselves. "


Nation building just for the sake of nation building is probably a terrible idea, but if we have to take out a regime, some nation building may be warranted. As to not nation build and let a failed regime fester may be against our interests.
For example, suppose we go to war with Iran. (just as a hypothetical). We wouldnt go to war with Iran simply to nation build. But it would then be in our interest for Iran to be if not a democratic state at least a stable one that wans't chanting death to America at every turn and training the next Al Qaeda. In that case a little nation building (if that's how we're going to describe it) might in fact be warranted, as the better option.
An while it's true that the ultimate security of Afghanistan does reside with Afghanistan ultimately, that doesn't mean that they'll be able to do so wihtout our assistance. And then the question is, again, is it more in our interest to let Afghanistan become a terrorist state or try to assist them with stability.

creeley23 said...

I don't like Obama. I didn't vote for him in 2008 and I won't vote for him in 2012. However, I really did think Obama and the Democrats had some secret ammunition that they had been saving up for this election.

But they don't.

This is the typical Obama story. I never believed that he was some Zen master, 3-D chess player, brainiac, but I did think he would do things that surprised and befuddled me. But he never did.

Obama is like a WWI general who keeps sending his troops over the wire into no-man's-land to be slaughtered just like the last seventeen times.

Darrell said...

The Democrats had nothing to offer the country in 2000. The Democrats had nothing to offer the country in 2004. They had nothing to offer the country--and they proved it, afer they took over Congress in 2006. The Democrats had nothing to offer the country--except change at the top--in 2008. They implemented--or tried to implement--all the bullshit they had been kicking around since the 1960s in college classrooms. It failed miserably. The Democrats have nothing to offer in 2012. Obama stated that quite clearly last night.

kimsch said...

Matt:

Don't get me started on putting food in our gas tanks. Ethanol costs more, doesn't add to fuel efficiency, isn't cleaner...

On Obama's magic "I declare cars will have a fuel efficiency of x by year y" declaration aside... He's doing the same with Medicare. Paying less to providers will not make the costs go down. It will, however, lower the number of providers and lower senior's choice and availability in health care.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

As it happens I am a Mormon bigot whose views should not, really, matter.

It is Kid Rock that taught me:

Send me to Hell, or

Utah.

rcommal said...

717 comments attached to this post. That pretty much puts the fine point on no point of commenting. And without at least one, some sort of cafe post thereafter it's pretty much clear that no more comment is desired. Totally understandable and also noted.

Darrell said...

No point of a thread if it receives a lot of comments? What ever happened to everyone being heard? Every vote counting and important? I'm shocked!

jamesmitges said...

Certain type of inspirational music takes you to the world of the imagination and guess what will happen if music connects you to your higher self. Once you are tuned with it, you will come to the point where you can answer, who are you? Where are you? What to do next? Your higher self is your ultimate guide which steers you in the direction that you intended to create for your spiritual contact. Certain soul and spiritual music helps you succeed in the journey to your higher self.

Darrell said...

jamesmitges,

Spamming is like getting to the top of the garbage can. Not really a higher self. And with that "Mahal" in your link, we are all a bit suspicious.

rcommal said...

jamesmitges:

What I have come to learn over the years is that it's not about my "higher self." It's more about about my down-to-earth self.

Darrell:

Somewhat along the same lines: Oh, puh-leeze.

AllenS said...

So, was moving the convention indoors a good idea? How bad was the thunderstorm?

Darrell said...

There was an afternoon thunderstorm. All the other noise in Charlotte on Thursday just sounded like the air being let out of a balloon.

Darrell said...

Obama couldn't run a falafel cart with a $Million/yr government grant.

And he's proved it every day for almost four years.

The workers didn't get the shaft, the taxpayers did. Now we know why Granholm is the ex-governor--she didn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.

RAUF ARSHAD said...

nice to see such an awsome post in a day
justgoalshighlights.blogspot.com

Chip Ahoy said...

We who live on higher higher moral and ethical plane are able to reach down into the plane of higher ground and make snap decisions that would confound higher ground inhabitants. But on matters that appear ethereal and evanescent to higher grounders, matters of very little apparent substance, and the reason for that is because up here all weighty matters are long settled.

So it is possible to peek into present activities and notice unusually old shoe polish bottles that are perfect for an anticipated project, strange distinctive shapes that are no longer produced by methods no longer economical. Usually found in dumps, lowest of the high ground. And make a snap decision about them, bang! that sets into motion activities that bring them to my door, without even having to think about it. That's what you have to look forward to as evolved higher higher pane inhabitants.

Chip Ahoy said...

pane=plane

Revenant said...

Very straight forward question. What is Romney's policy with regards to Afghanistan.

It's the economy, stupid.

Chip Ahoy said...

A feeder on etsy approaches what I'm on about with bottles but it makes a few mistakes that seem to me to come about by not thinking like a bird. Insufficient birdbrain usage. We on higher higher plane see these things.

* the glass beed adornments out-compete the dull red dot at the end of the feeding tube.

* the focal point, a flower made of glass beads would be the target an exhausted migrating bird would aim for. The flower is misplaced. It's on the bowl not on the feeding tip where a flower would logically belong in order to say, "drink here." Theirs says drink here in the wrong place.

* shiny glass attracts, yes, attention from afar, but there is nothing organic in appearance to invite a bird to sip.

* no place for a tired bird to sit. It must continue to buzz and sip.

* flimsy wire structure wouldn't hold bulb bottle in a wind. Too loose.

* Crap thoughtless bottle.

* Cheap ass feeding tube without a flower, just a dot, and all other dots are brighter.

Other than that, it's a beautiful effort, and a very good price. If they would just think like a bird.

Revenant said...

Chickie, we had a huge defense dep't (even by Eisenhower's standards) in the 1950s. White men also had a better economy, roaring labor unions and a much stronger middle class.

Fixed your typo, Rit. :)

I do love how so few on the left figure out that the reason American white men had it so good in the 50s was that Europe and Asia had been blown to shit. Supply and demand -- the rules apply to labor just like they apply to everything else.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Choom the prophet is toast.

Marshal said...

O Ritmo Segundo said...
Also, Synova, it seems that someone here never heard of something called a "multiplier effect".

Jobs beget jobs.


How does one conclude spending has a mulitplier greater than one, but taxing does not have a muliplier less than one? It's almost like lefties accept economic reality only when it supports policies they favor.

Rusty said...

Shouting Thomas said...
None of you are interested in Althouse's contention that Obama knows he's finished?


I am.
When did she first know?
myself. I figured right after the Walker recall election when the lefties found they couldn't manufacture enough votes to recall him.

Joe Schmoe said...

Well, the media did a good job yesterday of uniformly squashing the Woodward book excerpts. Very little mention of it yesterday.

Even without the distraction, though, Obama's speech sucked. If he is the best speechwriter on his team, he should fire himself.

Rusty said...

Chip Ahoy said...
A feeder on etsy approaches what I'm on about with bottles but it makes a few mistakes that seem to me to come about by not thinking like a bird. Insufficient birdbrain usage. We on higher higher plane see these things.

* the glass beed adornments out-compete the dull red dot at the end of the feeding tube.

* the focal point, a flower made of glass beads would be the target an exhausted migrating bird would aim for. The flower is misplaced. It's on the bowl not on the feeding tip where a flower would logically belong in order to say, "drink here." Theirs says drink here in the wrong place.

* shiny glass attracts, yes, attention from afar, but there is nothing organic in appearance to invite a bird to sip.

* no place for a tired bird to sit. It must continue to buzz and sip.

* flimsy wire structure wouldn't hold bulb bottle in a wind. Too loose.

* Crap thoughtless bottle.

* Cheap ass feeding tube without a flower, just a dot, and all other dots are brighter.

Other than that, it's a beautiful effort, and a very good price. If they would just think like a bird.


As a rule hummingbirds don't rest while they feed.
You will rarely see them perch.
Put red food coloring in the sugar water.

Rick67 said...

"There's a closeup of his face and I think I see his lip curl with a bit of disgust, and I rewind and ask Meade to interpret the face and he says: resignation."

I sure hope so. G-d deliver us from these self-righteous, self--serving, angry, narcissistic, vulgar, condescending, hypocritical tyrants. You know, I try to be polite and respectful toward the "honorable opposition", and have done quite well for 4 and more years. But after this DNC convention I say scr3w it. These Loeschkoepfer *must* be removed from power.

edutcher said...

When he sobers up, somebody as Oaf what Choom's position on A-stan is. McChrystal tried to find out for 9 months in '09.

The troops are still waiting.

Ann Althouse said...

He tells us he "loves" Obama.

Well, he IS the First Gay, Female President.

garage mahal said...

Bama is an incredibly effective public speaker.

I must be immune. This speech was just like every other speech he's given. Boring and phony.


When you've lost garage...

Patrick said...

Nearly 1000 comments after Bill Clinton's speech. This one stalls at sub 750. Does that mean anything? I expected this to zoom up there, way past 1000.

AllenS said...

I'd like everyone to watch and listen to one more speech by Obama. Everyone will like this!

POTUS (Jeff Bridges)

AprilApple said...

Grievance Theater + Tax Hikes = Kill off what's left of the middle class.

Mission Accomplished, democrats.

Patrick said...

The Star Tribune in MN captures the look on the President's face to which Prof. Althouse refers in her update. (You may need to click as they have a series of pictures). It looks like the VP shares that sentiment.

Siiigghhh

AprilApple said...

Unprofessional hack media alert:

"Members of the media have apparently been using “fake” names to buy official Obama gear and contribute to the Obama campaign inside the Time Warner Cable Arena"

Desperation and duplicity

Matthew Sablan said...

If they really are buying merchandise with fake names to appear on donor lists, that's an even bigger ethical lapse than the initial purchase, because that's an actual ethical lapse not just a journalistic ethical lapse.

Rusty said...

ricpic said...
The Oopster doesn't feel the pain of millionairesandbillionaires like the folks who own that little dress store on the corner, those filthy plutocrats let's bleed them dry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And then they whine about jobs going overseas.

Joe Schmoe said...

Nearly 1000 comments after Bill Clinton's speech. This one stalls at sub 750.

Ritmo couldn't keep up his torrid commenting pace all week,you know.

Paco Wové said...

Poor L.Oaf. He tried so hard to troll this thread, and nobody would play.

Joe Schmoe said...

I'll give the MSM credit for discipline. If Slayer-of-Nixon Bob Woodward leaks book excerpts that paint a picture of an inept, rudderless Republican presidential incumbent, especially on the day of his convention speech, then we would've heard nothing else but breathless opinion commentary on that right up until the speech. With Barry, we hear nothing as the MSM goes into lockdown to protect 'their' guy.

I don't care so much that they didn't cover it, but the press' double standard continues to be a giant blot on their record.

Matthew Sablan said...

It is kind of a shame that Obama and Biden were not pre-fact checked. It really helps to keep up at least the pretense of objectivity media.

master cylinder said...

Obama is not gonna lose you silly woman.

Lindsey Meadows said...

Allie -

some have thier heads so far up the rightwing's ass they can't hear or see anything.

Matthew Sablan said...

Another thing I learned:

When Obama takes money out of Medicare, it makes it stronger! When Romney puts money into Medicare, it makes it weaker!

... And this, folks, is why it is hard to take Democrats seriously on the economy.

Joe Schmoe said...

It is kind of a shame that Obama and Biden were not pre-fact checked.

Good point. I'm not finding much post-fact checking either. Yahoo and CNN news are leading with variations of "Speech hits the mark!".

And now a piddling jobs number comes out, but the media is too busy out painting their Potemkin villages to notice. The unemployment rate fell only because more job-seekers gave up on looking for a job. Who said the Democrats are secular? I haven't seen this kind of religious zeal since C3P0 showed up at the Ewoks' village in Return of the Jedi.

Hagar said...

I am sure I saw George McGovern in one of those crowd shots - and he was smiling.

EMD said...

He's doing the same with Medicare. Paying less to providers will not make the costs go down. It will, however, lower the number of providers and lower senior's choice and availability in health care.

I was told this was okay, because doctors were getting a lump sum to treat Medicare patients, which would never lead to rationing care or anything ...

EMD said...

I do love how so few on the left figure out that the reason American white men had it so good in the 50s was that Europe and Asia had been blown to shit

C'mon, you mean they weren't churning out refrigerators and hi-fis in Dresden and Nagasaki?

Marshal said...

bagoh20 said...
It's not really the case here right now, but I don't understand why Allie draws such fire.


Her persona is a lie. She likes to present as a reasonable person, but she actually believes conservatives are "Jeebus Freaks" and Republicans are trying to institute The Handmaid's Tale, i.e. enforce a medieval class system with the vast majority of women as sexual slaves and the rest as second class citizens.

She spreads lies she's too ignorant to even understand, which means she accepts anything the nutty left asserts as gospel. When those are pointed out she runs away rather than admit her error so she can assert the same lies again. She's completely dishonest.

She pretends criticism is because she's a "strong woman", resorts to claiming victimhood status, and makes ad hominem attacks against anyone criticizing her comments.

What's not to love?

Patrick said...

I disagree, Marshal. Allie uses hyperbole from time to time - but that's nothing new. She insults people, but not because they disagree with her but when they insult her. No idea whether she is "a strong woman," but she keeps coming back here, so that says something, I guess.

Marshal said...

Patrick said...
I disagree, Marshal. Allie uses hyperbole from time to time - but that's nothing new.


I guess if you simply assume she doesn't mean what she says you can conclude anything.

AllieOop said...

Marshal, any attack I ever made upon you was not a ad hominem, there was MUCH truth behind it. :)

AllieOop said...

An

AllieOop said...

Lindsey, sadly that describes our dear dear Marshal to a tee.

Marshal said...

Allie,

Why don't you explain the Romney's 77k tax credit for us, and why it doesn't appear as a credit on his tax return? Or why outsourcing is wrong? Or what tax credits are taken by offshoring companies and why they are inappropriate? Or what subsidies oil companies get?

Did your DailyKos nugget of wisdom not include that information? Or is substance based argument beyond your ability?

Marshal said...

P.S.

We're still eagerly anticipating your essay on how the Republicans are implementing The Handmaid's Tale.

AllieOop said...

Marshal, speak for yourself, "we're" may not be accurate, but who knows? I must ask you what makes you think you know me or what I "present" myself as?

People who can state that they know a complete stranger's psyche, from debates and comments in a blog comments section, makes me wonder about you, and your grasp of reality.

Rick67 said...

"There's a closeup of his face and I think I see his lip curl with a bit of disgust, and I rewind and ask Meade to interpret the face and he says: resignation."

I sure hope so. Although some of the disgust might be with the American people. It is way past time to remove these self-righteous, self-serving, hypocritical, arrogant, condescending, contemptuous, mendacious, angry, bitter tyrants from power. For more than four years I've tried to be at least somewhat respectful toward the "honorable opposition", but after this the Democrats' convention I say, Screw it.

Rick67 said...

And another thing.

It's amazing how people who won the presidency, controlled both houses of Congress for 2 years, have gotten pretty much everything they want can come across as so angry, bitter, and resentful. Why the heck aren't these people happier?

Erika said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marshal said...

Allie,

Why don't you explain the Romney's 77k tax credit for us, and why it doesn't appear as a credit on his tax return? Or why outsourcing is wrong? Or what tax credits are taken by offshoring companies and why they are inappropriate? Or what subsidies oil companies get?


No answers to any of these questions huh? Avoid, deflect, and then run.

AllieOop said...
Marshal, speak for yourself, "we're" may not be accurate, but who knows?


Don't sell yourself short. This promises loads of fun.

I must ask you what makes you think you know me or what I "present" myself as?

All writers present themselves with a voice and perspective. You reveal a piece every time you write. But if you want to dispute my characterizing your positioning as "reasonable" I suppose that's your business. So you should write Patrick and Bagoh and tell them you aren't and quit characterizing you that way.

People who can state that they know a complete stranger's psyche

What a pathetic strawman, but perfectly consistent with your tangential relationship with honesty. I'm not saying I know your complete personality, I'm saying you're a dishonest poseur on this blog. And how do I know how you are on this blog? I read the posts. Is there some miracle involved with this?

And I've shown you multiple times the inconsistencies in your assertions that prove it. Like your claim you were considering voting Romney until some random unimportant event. Then the next day Republicans were implementing The Handmaids Tale.

janmaxwell said...

"There's a closeup of his face and I think I see his lip curl with a bit of disgust, and I rewind and ask Meade to interpret the face and he says: resignation. Subjectively, we think we see in his face that he knows he's going to lose."

Of course he is going to lose. Mitt Romney is leading in the polls...OH WAIT...he's not.

OK.OK. Romney's temporarily tied with Obama in the polls - especially in the swing state polls...OH WAIT...he's not.

OK.OK. Well, at least we know that Obama won't gt a convention bounce and pull further ahead...OH WAIT...Anybody seen the Gallup site today :)

creeley23 said...

Oddly enough Rasmussen shows Obama's approval dropping steadily during the convention. It's a rolling average and 9/6 doesn't include his speech, but he's at the high end of the channel that his RAS numbers have been oscillating through for the past three years.

His numbers actually improved during the Republican convention last week.

My impression from watching RAS is that generally the more Obama is out of the public eye the better his numbers.

creeley23 said...

*** he's at the high end for the d*** he's at the high end for the disapproval channel ***

RASisapproval channel ***

RAS

Marshal said...
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Marshal said...
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Marshal said...
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Nathan Alexander said...

@Allie Oop
Nathan, you don't know me personally, you're assessment of my psyche is pure conjecture and probably projection on your part.

Ah, the old 14-year-old teenager "You don't know me!" whine.

I do see your demonstrated behavior.

I don't judge people, I judge their behaviors. Your thinking that the vile hatefest that was the DNC this year is "fun" says much about you and your worldview and your character. That you found Ms. Fluck's speech praiseworthy says even more.

In any case, you trying to pull the "you don't know me" defense is laughable with the transparently false assertions you've made about conservatives, pro-lifers and traditional marriage advocates.

Try to stop being such a hypocrite.

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllieOop said...

Nathan Alexander, the truth of the matter IS that you DON'T know me. And to make presumptions about a strangers's character, shows you engage in making judgements based solely on online interactions, which is WEIRD. I hope you don't deal with others you meet only a few times in person in such a manner. I hope you do not work in the medical field, or with people in general.

AllieOop said...

Also Nathan, I was married, my husband passed away, my four children are from the man I married and loved for many years, a traditional marriage, you jackass.

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